>> of the countless things keith stole from his family, resilience is not among them. aaron and zach are closer than they been in years, and now that they know what happened to their mother, they say they can finally mourn her passing and focus on keeping her spirit alive for those two little granddaughters were the center of her universe. >> my oldest daughter, she talks about her almost every day. we have pictures of her up in her room. as my youngest gets older, we will tell her the nascar nana story about how she was born and always make her remember that. >> that's all for this edition of dateline. i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. ank yo watching. hello and welcome to morning joe weekend. it is 6:00 this saturday morning and we have a lot to

talk about. let's look at some of the big conversations we had this past week. >> do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no? as a principle? >> the answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. >> for the woman? >> yeah, there has to be some form. >> donald trump's answer in march 2016 on the issue of abortion. >> as you say, donald trump followed through on that because women are now being punished across america. >> thank you, chris, for getting that answer, along with credible correspondent and host of the fast politics podcast, molly john-fast. the punishment is quite severe. we have found in many states now, we have seen women being put in situations where they face potential death, where they are being told to bleed out or wait until they're

bleeding out, a lot of pain. the potential and in many cases it's already happened sterilization, because they are forced to bring babies that are have major abnormalities and will die to full term. trauma for the woman, for the woman's family, for the other children in the family. and you know what? extra punishment from donald trump to other women who aren't even pregnant but might need an abortion-like procedure, a dnc or something to help. and they won't be able to get that, so they get punished too. donald trump has done some great work in following through on his promise. >> what about 10-year-old girls who are raped, 13-year-old girls forced to have babies because their mothers think, you know, they have to do it.

>> it happens. >> it's not acceptable. >> no, it's not. the punishment donald trump is exacting on women of all ages is really shocking. >> there was something in the instinct of his answer there, where he said there needs to be some form of punishment. i think in getting rid of roe v. wade, he opened the door to the 14 states that outlawed abortion and the states that make it difficult, the six-week ban. he changed the conversation. it's now about pro-choice, getting rid of all the bans. the fact that he would not support any ban at all, remember, he was thinking through this. do i do a 16-week or anything. he decided not to because it's changed. the conversation has changed. anyone who supports a ban is on the other side right now, even 16 weeks, which is considered

negotiable at one point. he's changed what's going on in arizona, the 1860s bill. i think his instinct is punishment. it does fit a lot of the things, the way he thinks about women, and when he makes fun of women when he had relationships with, stormy, e. jean carroll, horse-faced, somes up with phrases like nicknames. why doesn't he just say i didn't do it or something? he goes on the offensive. and he's never taken that back. he's never said, i made a mistake, because he never says, i make a mistake. he doesn't say i made a mistake or i was thinking wrong or had a bad attitude that day. we grew up with it, basically never supported any punishment of a woman.

that was just him. >> this comes to us from judge william howell in 1864. a judge appointed by abraham lincoln. and you almost have to laugh but it's reality now, delivered to us. there's punishment, two to five years in prison for anybody who administers an abortion. >> what's so interesting about what's happening right now in the arizona state house is that democrats are still trying -- even though this law will ultimately serve them in a swing state, they are still trying to get it overturned and republicans are still fighting with them. i think it's such an interesting moment because there was a border bill, right? there was a border bill all cooked up, and donald trump said to mike johnson, no, do not pass this bill. i need to run on the border. and here we have arizona where this bill will ultimately serve the electoral ambitions of democrats, and they are like,

no, we don't want to live like this. so i think that was a really interesting dynamic. >> trump spoke with reporters in atlanta yesterday and he's going all over the place with his position on abortion because he realized the storm is coming. he said he would not sign a federal abortion ban reversing a promise that he made as a candidate back in 2016. and just days after, saying abortion policy should be left to the states, and he then criticized arizona's supreme court, saying they went too far, doing exactly what he said they should do.

>> yeah, pretty amazing. he's whistling past a political graveyard there, others reporting for the trump campaign say he's in meltdown mode now. they know he screwed up giving that speech. he was going to talk about a 15 or 16-week ban then pulled back, didn't have the guts to do that. he's trying to be all things to all people, and in abortion that means you're nothing to anybody. here donald trump is going to run in florida with a six-week abortion ban, politically wrapped around his neck. in arizona he's doing the same thing with a 160-year abortion ban following behind him, whether they repeal it or not.

that's even questionable. i remind the viewers that republicans in wisconsin had an opportunity before the most important supreme court election in recent time to repeal a total abortion ban that was put in place when john tyler was president. they didn't do it, and they paid the price. so we'll see if arizona republicans decide to keep this 160-year ban on the books. >> if they don't, we'll see a lot more money spent in arizona, more money spent in florida even though people say florida will be in play. they have to spend more in florida. >> i hear people say florida is going to be in play. let me correct this. there are a lot of florida republicans that hope this. 2022 happened because democrats didn't put anything on the field. charlie crist was out there and

it was like king david pulling all the troops back from uriah. they didn't spend a dime. they ceded that state. i always found florida, they are very conservative, and there are a lot of military people all around the world that didn't like the idea of the federal government telling them what they could and couldn't do with their bodies. those independents, ton of independents in florida, they ain't right wing religious voters. they are more libertarian, more small government independents. >> so what do you see as the relationship, between trump and his position or whatever he thinks he's thinking about abortion. but then think about the dominion, that judge? alabama who was a seven

mountains mandate guy. i'm thinking about this group of folk who are actually pushing this legislation. trump made roe v. wade getting overturned possible. then there are folks pushing the draconian laws across the board. what do we do with them? >> if you're a democratic campaign person, you say go. go for it. because you're going to lose. you're going to lose because they are not the 50%, not even the 33%. donald trump, you know, donald trump loathes those people. i've been saying it for as long as i've known him. he loathes those people. he's always loathed them. he used to mock privately right wing religious extremists. he hates those people and he

always has. that's why when 2022 went down, he blamed it on pro-life voters. trump blamed 22 on pro-life voters. he's got no use for them. so here he finds himself in a position where, again, these people are going to determine whether he gets reelected or not and he doesn't like it. >> he's caught in the cross hairs. he's still taking credit for getting rid of roe v. wade. i put these judges in there, changed the supreme court, and we got rid of that law. >> he's dumb enough to think that's where it would stop. it never stops. >> it's dynamic. >> give them a little taste of it, they're going to keep on going. they want more and more and more, more extreme. this is what he did not realize: they'll never be happy. >> biden doesn't say free

choice, no rules. he says, let's go back to roe v. wade, something that was a good compromise. people could live with it. they say, you know, it's much more on the side of the woman making the decision for the first six months. at the end there are societal concerns there. so the court decision made sense, you know, politically. it made sense politically. now trump is back saying, i want all the credit in the world for getting rid of roe v. wade. at the same time, don't blame me for the consequences. that's what politics is, consequences. you make decisions to go into iraq or don't go into iraq. now you have states that are hard right and women in the legislatures that want to go totally anti-abortion. right now they would do it, completely outlaw it in those 14 states. the other states six weeks,

which men just learned you don't know if you're pregnant or not. and but trump needs anger. he only has one reflexive american concern. there's anger about inflation and border and stuff. how does he make anger work for him with all these states getting rid of abortion? it doesn't work. he will get a lot more of these airports where he can't answer the question. should it be legal or not? he can't answer the question. >> don't go away. morning joe weekend returns after a short break. th flonases don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily gives you long lasting non-drowsy relief. flonase all good. also, try our allergy headache and nighttime pills.

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joining us now, democratic senator mark kelly of arizona. thank you for joining us this morning. let's talk about the practical questions that have come up in the last couple days in your state. what does this ruling from the state supreme court mean on the ground for women in arizona? >> well, this is a disaster for women. it's going to drive doctors out of the state. we have seen that already when donald trump had roe v. wade overturned when he was president. i've spoken with those doctors and that gives women a lot less options. this is all because of donald trump. we've got a situation now where

doctors can be thrown in jail for just doing their job. so this is a disaster for women and it's clear why this happened, and the former president donald trump spiked the ball on monday on this thing, claiming that he is responsible for this, and it's because he is. >> and driving doctors out of the state i think would just be the beginning. let's think about the long-term ramifications with this law being enforced. who's going to want to go to college in arizona or go on vacation in arizona? if you're a woman of childbearing age or a woman who wants health care, doesn't even need to be pregnant, who's going to want to go work in arizona? >> yeah, that's certainly a big issue for us. president biden has taken steps that will create tens of thousands of good paying jobs in the clean energy and

semiconductor industry, and now we have this hanging over us. at the same time, joe just pointed out florida being a military state, well so are we. i was in the navy for 25 years. when you serve in the military, you don't get a choice as to where you go. folks are going to be -- these are orders, you're sent to a state. and if you're a woman or a spouse of a service member, your health care is going to be at risk. in some cases literally your lives will be at risk. >> hi, senator kelly. i'm curious when you are talking about what we've seen in states like louisiana, ob/gyns afraid to treat in the first trimester. i'm curious, is there anything you can do? you have a democratic governor

and you have some democrats. is there anything you can do to tell ob/gyns, gynecologists that they are safe to treat, that they have some protection? is there anything you can do to protect these women before november? >> i've spoken with ceos of hospitals about this, their interactions with their own staff. ob/gyns, you're right, they're scared because of the ramifications of this law that is two centuries old. 1864. could throw them in jail for two to five years and doctors are scared. i've talked with ceos about specific cases, where a woman was going in and they didn't want to treat the woman until she was nearing sepsis. that puts that woman's life literally at risk. what can we do? the legislature would pass a repeal of this 1864 law.

they could have done it yesterday. they didn't. there was chaos at the state legislature. they adjourned because they knew the votes were actually there, so it didn't happen yesterday. we have other options. we have a ballot initiative in november. my hope is that that will codify what was law under roe, and this will be a big deal for our election. >> i wanted to ask that question. we can talk about the actual existential implications of these draconian laws and impacts on women. let's talk politics for a moment. what will this mean for the presidential election in arizona? do you think it will energize arizona voters? what role will women play in your view, in determining the outcomes for arizona in this election? >> well, let me be clear.

my biggest concern is the health care of women in our state. i've got a daughter, a granddaughter now. this is a disaster and it is a huge change from what the status quo was under roe. this is going to be on the ballot. looks like the signatures are there. i suspect that it's going to drive a lot of women that might not normally vote to come out and vote, and vote for joe biden. let's be clear, the supreme court ruling in arizona said dobbs 22 times, it might as well have said donald trump. folks in arizona understand that. my hope is that they make a choice for change. joe biden is going to fight for the rights of women, fight for freedoms, and fight against what the former president has allowed to happen. he literally set the conditions

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>> trump's senior campaign advisor jason miller told me:

>> gabe, you know, he says out loud that he would be a dictator and that he is your retribution to his voters. he says a lot of the quiet part out loud, even the frightening part out loud. he also has a campaign construct that now has his daughter-in-law built in. there are a lot of different factors to this that didn't exist the first time around. >> that's right. everyone here has been covering trump for years, and the big story in 2016 and to some extent 2020 was that his campaign was a soap opera, clashing personalities and nonstop drama. covering this cycle, the thing that i've been struck by time and time again is that it's really a low drama campaign.

these are operatives who don't want press, don't want their egos out there. they want him in at 2024 because the only thing guaranteed to keep donald trump out of jail is becoming the next president and appointing an attorney general who will get these charges thrown out. it is really that simple. that's why he's so focused. yes, he says incendiary things on the stump. but with running the campaign, it's a much different operation. >> up and down the insiders on the campaign have told me that their goal is to basically minimize him as much as possible, keep his mouth shut, stop him from blowing himself up every day. >> every time he opens his mouth, he creates a new news cycle. this weekend we saw that he said, why don't we have more immigrants from, quote, nice

countries? he mentioned those that are majority white populations. he says the quiet part out loud and creates his own controversies. that's really baked in now to his brand. i think the mechanics, the underlying ground game, getting the state parties in line, getting the rnc in line, is what i think is fueling this success that he's had on the campaign trail. now apparently he's got the money behind him as well. >> and we noted despite the public proclamations that he would be happy to go to jail, we know that not to be true. that fuels a lot of these rants. let's talk about the maga movement, large with steve bannon and others. what are some of their goals, how to use trump to accomplish what they want? >> gabriel mentioned the ground game. that's a huge part of what this book is about.

the way the movement regrouped after january 6th, going into the party structure itself and starting at the bottom, going up through the counties, districts, states, getting to the rnc and get a new chair and cochair who could even be trump's own daughter-in-law. whatever is going on with the trump campaign or trump trial, that organization will be out there in the field focusing on looking for voter fraud and getting out the vote among trump supporters. that's a huge part of making him a more formidable candidate than he's been in the past. >> i'm going to pitch you a softball, weigh in on donald trump comparing himself to nelson mandela. >> that is a softball. you know, the insult of that is that nelson mandela did 27 years in jail, to among other things get blacks in south

africa the right to vote. donald trump is facing jail for denying blacks and others the right to vote. he's the direct opposite of nelson mandela. and i might say by the way, donald, if you're watching, mandela did 27 years. if you want to equal that there, a lot of people wouldn't be disappointed. i think what caught my eyes about your book, because i think some of us that consider ourselves progressive and the civil rights side of that, failed to really build an infrastructure. talk about how they redid themselves and went from the bottom, very local grassroots, then up. i think that's underestimated in all the flash we see of donald trump. >> it's been very under the radar and in the past few

years, since trump left office, this has been happening. steve bannon had a huge part in this by popularizing the precinct strategy, starting at the bottom in the precincts and going up in the party organization itself. this was the innovation over the tea party, which was like, everybody go to this meeting. the idea here was, we have the republican party and we are going to use the republican party organization, the republican party structure. there's real power in that, there's money, there's volunteers, there's infrastructure. that's the infrastructure that all the candidates use. the motivation for that is that the reason trump failed in 2020 was because of a few uncooperative republicans, and that by taking over the party apparatus and purifying the party, they would make sure that didn't happen again.

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vandehei. >> let's get to the good stuff. i don't keep score. i agree with vandehei. so jim. >> just stick to the good stuff, joe. >> jim, i'm looking at your latest master work, and it cuts against everything we hear in politics today, everything. but you know, we have given speeches across the country in years past before we became hermitsers and we still get out a good bit. we are surrounded in our life by people who support donald trump. we don't understand why they support donald trump. but you get beneath that, right? you get past the -- i call it

surface tribalism, the tribalism. and you start asking basic questions and talking about america and start complaining about whether it's crime or whatever it is, we could say roe v. wade, all these things. and you get beneath the surface, and what is so surprising is how much people agree. i've always said it, whether i'm talking to a mom or a dad on the upper west side or down in alabama, they want the same things for their kids and they feel the same about a ton of issues. now, step into the political sphere and when it's trump or hillary and trump, then suddenly things separate. but americans -- that's why when i hear civil war, i go, please. please.

they'll take it out on the football field on friday night. >> no doubt. and i do the same thing, you travel and try to talk to people who are really partisan, get beneath the surface. i've increasingly come to the conclusion that 70% of 80% of people are normal, not all worked up about the things people get worked up about. the reality is that it happened in this distortion machine. if you're on twitter or x all day, living on tiktok and marinating in those topics, the people who have the loudest voices and say the most provocative things tend to dominate that conversation. then you're like, wait, does everyone feel this, conducting a civil war to defend their party? no, most people actually have a life and are not making politics into the beer you drink or the store you shop at.

it's like, i go to church and i know tons of people that are catholic, christian, every denomination. most people aren't thinking that trump is sent from god to offer salvation to the people. are there fringe people who think nutty things? yes. but what's different is there's a new way to amplify that through social media, and using the most partisan people on cable and certainly through these tribal battles we see at the base of the two parties. but i don't think america -- there was a poll last week that asked both parties, do you believe in freedom of speech and freedom to petition and freedom to live the way you want to live? almost every democrat and every republican looking back at the founding principles of the constitution, they agree with all of it. they agree on how you're going to turn that into public policy. but i think there's a reason we

are all wondering, is this real? because it's not what's real, especially when people are getting information in so many different realities, the tiktok or morning joe or other publications. if you're a trumper, maybe it's podcasts most people have never heard of, or if you want tech you're getting news from elon musk. it's very distorting. i think it's important to remind people that i do think the country is mostly sane. >> i couldn't agree more. i call them the normies. when you're at the store or a sideline of the game or at church, doing anything that normal people do, they are not frothing at the mouth about much of what we hear on the social media and tv sometimes. i think what gets some people, many of the normies we live with and know, they vote in

many cases, 74 million last time, for someone who still violates so much of what they stand for. whether you're a christian or you believe january 6th was a terrible day or you shouldn't terminate the constitution, that's where the friction comes in a little bit. we agree on so much, but you put your vote forward for someone who disagrees with so much of what you're about. >> yeah, politics has been toxic and donald trump has made it more toxic, given the words he uses and he's been a master at it. i've never thought he's the cause. he's a symptom of it. a lot of this stuff exists nonetheless. even when you talk to those trump supporters, when you get out and talk to them and really push them on what they believe -- they will say they believe the election was stolen but the

more you talk to them, they don't really feel that, they just don't trust anything. it's like a middle finger to pollsters and politics in general. if you really thought the election was stolen, if tens of millions of people, you would just passively say, i'm not going to do anything about it? you would storm the streets if you believe that was actually the truth. that's the tribal nature in politics. a little bit of this is because so many people are torn down the institutions that held us together when we were kids, boy scouts, girl scouts, churches, business, government, media. when everyone trusts nothing and they are just left on their own, you kind of get the politics that you have today. i think about this a lot, like trying to remind them, i don't know why people are so crazy about things, think about what

we went through for the last eight years? the country is kind of killing it. who's leading in ai? we are. who's scared? china. yes, there's growth and it would be great but i think anyone in europe, most countries in asia would love to be in the position the united states is in. coming up, how industrialized food production has changed americans' health and eating habits, and how we can get back on track. ck on tr. ♪ moving piles of earth, just by moving a lever. ♪♪ towing up to 4,000 lbs with a machine that weighs less than half that. cutting grass, clearing the way, and perfecting every inch of your land. ♪♪ we could keep trying to put it into words. ♪♪ but nothing compares to experiencing it for yourself. ♪♪ you just have to get in the seat. learn more at johndeere.com/getintheseat

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that's part of the trailer for the upcoming documentary food, inc. 2, a follow-up to food, inc. it takes a look at the immense power the food industry has in controlling nearly every aspect of food production. the documentary also makes the argument that corporate consolidation has left the nation's food system vulnerable in the wake of the covid pandemic. joining us now, coproducers of the film, eric sheriff's officer and michael pawn. eric, let's start with you.

why is the genesis of this film, why did you think a follow-up was needed to the 2008 version? >> a lot has changed, and the pandemic really revealed how fragile our food system is. suddenly hogs were being slaughtered and buried, not eaten, and there were huge lines of people waiting for food. it made us think again, what's going on? one of the things that changed is the growth of monopoly power and consolidation. when you try to understand the political extremism and the inquality today, it's because a handful of companies have taken over our food system. we have lost half the calculate ranchers in the united states since 1980, and more than 90% of our dairy farmers, just since 1980. between new york and los angeles, the heartland is being

hollowed out by the corporate consolidation. >> what should the government do, enforcing antitrust laws? it is really devastating when you go back to a rural place where there used to be a lot of families who gained their livelihood from farming. it's hard to go, risks with the weather, and you can have a bad year. but it was a livelihood. how can we bring farming back to american communities and make it a viable occupation again? >> antitrust is crucial. our market is said to be formed when there are four companies that control more than 40% of the market. take beef, for example. in the 1970s, four companies controlled about 25% of the market for beef. now four companies control 85% of the market for beef. and you go through one sector after another, and what happens

is the middle class is being affected and the money is being kept by a small number of companies, and not given to farmers or workers. look at the stagnant wages of the typical american worker and the rise of ceo wages, it's extraordinary. one example and then i'll stop: in california, there's a lot of debate right now about the new minimum wage for fast food workers. the median wage for a fast food worker in california is $15,000 a year. in 2021, the ceo of mcdonald's made $20 million. that means the typical fast food worker would have to work for 1,300 years to earn what the ceo earned. >> extraordinary and galling statistic. give us a sense of the impact of the covid pandemic and how that exacerbated these

problems. >> well, it exposed it. it peeled back the curtains on the american food system and we saw how it works. when you have so few companies with such powerful control, if something goes wrong with one of them, we all feel it. only two companies control baby formula. when one had a contamination event, babies went hungry. so really the lesson here is don't put all your eggs in one basket. we need diversity. that will also help bring back farmers, because right now they don't have a choice of who they get to sell to because of the dominance of these corporations. they become price takers and this drives down the prices they get. we think of antitrust and it's very important to producers, and we are not doing a very good job of that.

>> the important new documentary, food, inc. 2 opening in theaters and available on demand starting this friday. thank you both for being with us. >> stay with us. another hour of morning joe weekend coming up after the break. e break. rsv is out there. for those 60 years and older protect rsv with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? make it arexvy. why would i use kayak to compare hundreds of travel sites at once? i like to do things myself. i can't trust anything else to do the job right. kayak... aaaaaaaahhhh kayak. search one and done.

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good morning, welcome back to morning joe weekend. it is 7:00 p.m.

this saturday. we have lots more to cover, let's jump right in. the public and republican senate candidate kari lake has contacted lawmakers in an effort to repeal the abortion ban, according to a republican lawmaker who told nbc news they received a call from lake earlier this week. on wednesday, the gop controlled house shut down discussion on a proposal to overturn the law. lawmakers will now not meet again until next wednesday. in the week of the ruling, lake has decidedly flip-flopped on the issue and is trying to project a more moderate stance. >> if you'd like trump flip- flopping on abortion and the aca ? >> we have a lengthy list of trump flip-flops. here is what kari lake was saying two years ago when she was running for governor, followed by a video she posted yesterday on social media. >> i don't believe in abortion. i think the older law is going

to take, is going to go into effect. that is what i believe will happen. i don't think abortion pills will be legal. we have a great law on the books right now. if that happens, we will be a state where we will not be taking the lives of our unborn anymore. i am incredibly thrilled that we are going to have a great law that is already on the books. it will prohibit abortion in arizona and i think we are going to be paving the way and setting course for other states to follow. this total ban on abortion that the arizona supreme court just ruled on is out of line with where the people of this state are. the issue is less about banning abortion and more about saving babies. i agree with president trump's, this is such a personal and private issue. i chose life but i'm not every woman. i want to make sure that every woman who finds herself pregnant has more choices so she can make that choice that i make. >> i don't know what you would

do if you were running the ad campaign against, well, either kari lake or donald trump. i know. >> use her words. >> there is nothing i would love more if i were a democrat to run against these people. nothing. it would be so fun. i love when people start flip- flopping. hold on, you know you are saying, hold on a second, i've got it written down somewhere. then you read it and now you are saying what ? but wait, hold on a second. and then you read the three or four quotes. shooting catfish in a barrel as we used to say in the redneck riviera. something you learn early in advertising is that the voters are not stupid.

they are not stupid. they can put the pieces together. one thing voters hate, they hate flip-flops. people on the one hand know that they really are on the wrong side of the issue. they know where they stand. on the other hand, they are losing them because who are you. you have no soul, you have no ideology and she is following in the steps of trump. joe, you've said this on the so many times, the best ads, you just use their words. >> the best ads. this week, abortion, trump is flipping and flopping on abortion. the affordable care act, he suddenly has seen the light after saying he was going to terminate it. one time got carried away and said he was going to terminate health care. but, this should be pretty easy target. >> the problem that folks like kari lake and donald trump are going to have on an issue like

abortion is, i'm sorry, but, if you are a woman in america who believes in a woman's right to choose, if you are at all motivated as an american voter with any background on this issue, you are not going to go and deposits listen to the flip- flopping and say maybe actually he supports a woman's right to choose. this is the president that got roe v wade overturned, the issue is lost, it's gone. democratic voters and independents who care about these issues, they are not going to suddenly change their mind and to see that donald trump and the republican party are great proponents of women's rights. that is a joke. at this point, that is lost. >> donald trump did it. those words. that hits it. those are magical words. donald trump did it. >> every child in america knows that. people who aren't even of voting age know that. this is on his tombstone. i just think it is insulting to think that they are going to convince voters who know their

coalition. let them try. >> we've run two focus groups on this show over the past couple of years that really spoke to how this issue also cuts for republicans and one was a couple of years ago. the guy who believes in all of the conspiracy theories, going down the line and then you lease jordan asks about abortion and he said wait, what, i have no right to talk about what a woman does with her body and then one we shared this past week of swing voters where a guy who was really conservative, libertarian said i don't trust the government to do anything effectively. now they are taking control of our bodies? sure, it is a woman's body today, it will be my body tomorrow. this is such, it is not just democrats and independents, a

lot of republicans and people who have long identified themselves as pro-life say wait a second, i'm ready to get off the train. >> regular morning joe viewers will say i don't often quote the group focus on the family but i was looking at a couple of research points. >> i have long confused you for james dobson., had. >> two research reports, one from focus on the family, one from a similar evangelical institute. focus on the family found that 4 in 10 women who had an abortion were churchgoers when they ended a pregnancy. the right "many women with unexcited pregnancies go silently from the church pew to the abortion clinic, convinced the church was gossip rather than help." women in their own churches finding more support in abortion clinics than in their own churches. another institute found 54% of people get abortions, including 13% are evangelical protestants. by making this issue a

referendum in the way they have, i don't think they know who is in their own movement. >> and people that watch this show know that it is a continued pet peeve of mine when people claim that abortion is the singular testing ground for what kind of christian you are when, as i said, evangelicals were pro-choice. pro-choice from the time of jesus birth not just through the breakup of the beatles but through the breakup of the eagles. through 1980. >> that's a long run. i'm not a mathematician. either way, speaking of the eagles. >> the long run, it is the album that came out. well done. >> unintentional. >> you had no idea. we have a lot more to get to this hour. morning joe weekend continues after a short break. t break.

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u.s. border patrol is reporting the number of migrant crossings at both the northern and southern borders have been going down during the first part of this year. despite the drop, the biden administration is now exploring whether the president has the authority to shut down the southern border without authorization from congress. that is according to new comments president biden made earlier this week during an interview with the spanish- language tv network univision. joining us now, the cochair of the democrats for border security task force, congressman henry, henry cuellar of texas. is it your understanding the president has the authority to do this and you think it should ? >> yes he has the authority and yes he should. i will tell you what, when trump did title 42, he had signed an executive order based

on a statute entitled title 42. we now have, for years, we've had title viii, expedited removals president obama used without an executive order that he can use that. he can't do everything that there are certain things you can do in an executive order. if somebody files a lawsuit, we will see what happens at that time. >> of is your assessment right now. you represent a border state, of the situation at the border. the numbers show, crossings going down but the administration still believes perhaps too high and we know it is a political hot button issue with donald trump and the republicans hammering at it each and every day. how are things really there ? >> in december, it was 10, 12,000 individuals a day. the last three weeks, the daily count has been 3800 between ports of entry. 3800. the numbers have gone down.

this is why it is important that all the resources, we added a couple of million dollars through homeland security, more border patrol agents, technology, roads, all of that. and, we have to make sure we don't stop. now that the numbers are going down, let's continue using resources and, again, the ones that are supposed to come in, let them, but the ones that are not supposed to be coming in, go ahead and hold them and detain them and then deport them back to their countries. that is doing secretary johnson can do it, i know secretory mayorca can do that. >> let's talk about the border for the moment. you just heard the congressman give us a reality check as to what is going on. the perception is it is out of control. the republicans using this as a wedge issue. >> congressman, question for you on that, how do you think democrats can deal with the fact that people are righteous about it, that there is a

perception, sometimes rooted in reality, sometimes untethered from reality, of chaos and ongoing ability of the border, how can democrats respond to that without becoming the kind of b- mimicry of republicans on the border and actually tie it into reminding people that this is a country of immigrants and people move and rents are actually good? >> yes, you know, first of all, i've been doing this for many years, i think since 2013 when we saw the first surge of folks back at the border. i think we saw the special election in new york also carried this message. we as democrats can be strong on border security but at the same time respect immigrant values. i know the importance of immigration, i know what it is. as long as we are fair on the enforcement on border security and still be respectful, i

think americans will do that. i can tell you as democrats, we cannot ignore it. we have to talk about it. i've been doing this since 2013. and, people, as long as you know it is important to people and you talk about those issues, i think democrats will be fine. you cannot ignore it, you have to talk about it. >> democratic congressman henry cuellar of texas, thank you for joining us this morning. >> thank you so much. joe, poll after poll shows no matter which party you belong to, you really care about this issue. it is, for now, an effective one for the republicans, even though the gop submarine the border bill. >> if i were a democrat running, i wouldn't let them forget that any day of the week. it is just so interesting. what i would do if i were a democrat running, i would show people clips of ronald reagan. the guy chose his farewell speech. i want about military

industrial complex, reagan warned the nation that didn't embrace its immigrant past. i put an instagram post up, i do it once every three years. >> i didn't know you were there, joe. >> whether i need to do it or not, i did. i was going past the lincoln center, it was raining, it was beautiful. i took a picture and said this is such a treasure with the city and all the people, from artists to everything else and, you know, i don't usually read comments but someone says you two to the border city where the migrants are? i was like you mean everywhere? that is what we are. we are a nation of immigrants. and, i think it is one of the reasons why we heard in 2018 immigration was going to be the key issue. every day, it was what were they, the caravan. people with leprosy, and over the borders. in 20, trump, that is when he

sent the military down, make sure they were away from their families during the holidays. it had no impact in 18, no impact in 20. it does along the border. we don't, i certainly shouldn't demean people. it is an important issue to me. at the same time, it is not an issue that is going to move voters like abortion, like democracy, like inflation, like jobs. it's just not. >> it is also not an intractable problem. i think more and more, it is clear that voters are really blaming republicans for torpedoing the copper mines, which was a very conservative compromise on immigration. you can't take them seriously at this point on it. the reality too is that immigrants are good for the american economy and i think the more democrats can lean into that message, which is

reality-based, you have the governor of utah begging for more immigration to fill empty jobs. so, america needs immigrants. of course, there's a reason that we should have a secure border and do so in an orderly fashion. there is a right way to do this. this is a situation that is very solvable if republicans would come to the table in good faith. up next, the republican chair of the house intelligence committee says some of his colleagues are parroting russian propaganda on the house floor. we will discuss the developments with pro democracy leader gary casper. casper.

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hello, ghostbusters. it's doug. we help people customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. we got a bit of a situation. [ metal groans] sure, i can hold. ♪ liberty liberty liberty liberty ♪ in theaters now. do you want to close out? should i? normally i'd hold. but... taking the gains is smart here, right? feel more confident with stock ratings from j.p. morgan analysts in the chase app. when you've got a decision to make... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management. in the late 1930s, there was a deliberate and sophisticated propaganda effort in the united states up to and including members of congress to affect american opinion and political opinion toward the regime the defense of europe

and it worked until pearl harbor. today, chairman mccall and chairman turner in the house of both of knowledged a very sophisticated and concentrated russian propaganda attempt in the united states to affect our public policy toward ukraine. and, indeed, both of them knowledged that this has, up to and including members of congress. do you see mr. secretary a danger to this country from this kind of concerted, conscious misinformation campaign on the part of the russians? >> absolutely, senator. that danger increases on a daily basis. to your point, it is sophisticated to the degree that people don't know that,

where the information is coming from. >> that was independent senator angus king of maine and defense secretary louis austin discussing the dangerous consequences of russian disinformation. as senator king noted, the republican chairman of the house intelligence committee said "russian propaganda is being repeated on the floor of the house like his gop colleagues." joining us now, u.s. national editor at "the financial times," ed loose and chairman of the renewed democracy initiative, former world chess champion garry kasparov. >> we see, of course, republican chairman saying it is republicans on the house floor are repeating russian disinformation along those lines. you saw marjorie taylor greene openly lying. she openly lied about priests being persecuted in ukraine.

she took a reality that is happening in russia where priests are being persecuted in russia and like a soviet propagandist just flipped it. >> she is repeating almost word for word. the analogies with a and 40-41 that senator king got up are absolutely correct. this is not an overstatement. she is repeating word for word kremlin talking points about priests being executed by volodymyr zelenskyy, about ukraine having a regime. and, fighting to spread values. and, other very, very easily identifiable lines that have come straight from the troll factories that are supplying the social media over here and ending up, out of marjorie taylor greene and many other people's mouths.

steve scalise, senior gop figure yesterday said that on june the sixth the congress wouldn't, the house wouldn't be sitting because there would be a congressional delegation to normandy to commemorate the 80th anniversary of the day. which side do you think they would have been on, these people, in 1940, 1941 ? which side do you think they would have backed in the america first versus franklin roosevelt debate ? it is a question that answers itself. they ought to go to karhkiv instead of normandy. they ought to spend the night listening to the contract as of what is becoming a 10 the 1 artillery advantage of the russians over the ukrainians. when it is time to 1, you lose. the difference between ukraine losing and ukraine being up to

fight on is people like mike johnson, who are not doing their job. this is a moral disgrace of generational proportion. >> make no mistake, last night, the suffering of the ukrainian people, garry kasparov said offset, more bombs dropped in one night then dropped in gaza over the course of the last six months, that visited upon the ukrainian people by mike johnson, by marjorie taylor greene but mainly by donald j trump, who also, by the way, effectively killed fisa, our way to track down russian spies . you don't have to be really that smart to connect all the dots together on why donald trump would want to kill fisa. >> these guys are going to normandy, really ? >> that was a rules vote on fisa that donald trump put up a true social he said kill it. enough republicans didn't go

through a rules vote. if you put these pieces together, what joe is saying is that ukraine aid was there, mike johnson, republicans said we have to take care of our own water first before we think about ukraine so a bipartisan group in the senate did exactly that. >> led by james lankford. >> the most conservative immigration deal in generations it wasn't enough for speaker mark johnson because donald trump told him not to take immigration off the table. with that, garry kasparov, we were commenting on our break that it does appear that the most vulnerable among our lawmakers seemed to be the ones that are spelled in all of this russian propaganda. it is so easy to track, i'm sure, for you when you hear tommy tuberville say something like actually, the united states pushed russia into this war with ukraine. i think vladimir putin is on top of his game, the words of

senator tommy tuberville and everything we've heard from marjorie taylor greene. when you hear united states officials saying those things, what does it sound like to your question >> i can't believe my ears. i up in the world where america was a formidable force. for me and my european friends, it is like the world is falling apart. these are outright lies that they don't even pretend to make sound as real. it is something turning the world upside down. unfortunately, the administration is not showing enough strength. this is the problem for europeans. the way they see it is you have a feckless administration and reckless trump and a treacherous, treacherous republicans that are rooting for vladimir putin to win and not hiding it. not recognizing that ukraine is not the last stop. it is not me saying this, it is

vladimir putin saying that. they are going to change the world. they are not attacking ukraine. >> by the way, let's be very clear, he said after ukraine, it will be not., it will be between he and. he's going to poland, >> no, they are at war with nato. they are not fighting ukraine. ukraine is a nato puppet. for them, winning the war in ukraine is showing the west is a paper tiger. of course, next will be one of the nato countries. the whole idea is to take revenge for the world war iii. they thought the cold war was world war iii and they are now in world war for. we are saying let's avoid world war iii, vladimir putin is already in world war for no. the way it is being conducted, he believes he is winning. we have a lot more to get to.

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will in 1994, we were hoping and praying we might get our first title in a long time. we are watching the new york knicks play the rockets. nbc cut away from game five of

the 1994 nba finals between the rockets and the next to take coverage of the o.j. simpson ford bronco chase. >> back in his days at ohio state, he will give up his body as he took the hard hit from anthony mason. new york by 2. 6:35 in the first half. >> we are looking at length pictures of interstate 5 in los angeles. we believe that white vehicle, which is being trailed by a phalanx of california highway patrol cars and helicopters belongs to all callings, who disappeared with o.j. simpson earlier today shortly after mister simpson was informed he was going to be formally charged with the murder of his wife and the young man who was with her at the time. it is the latest bizarre development in a string of bizarre and shocking developments that have been going on all day long. >> that is, of course, the

voice of the great tom brokaw, june of 1994. nbc continued to dip in and out of the coverage of that chase, at times showed the game and the police pursued simultaneously in a split screen. joining us now is stephen battalion, who writes about you for "the l.a. times." and at gordon. good morning to you both. it's great to have you with us. we are talking about all this because o.j. simpson died yesterday from cancer at the age of 76. steve, i will start with you. i was, bring my father who was a correspondent for cbs news at the time, had just flown into l.a.x. on a reporting trip and got word oj was on a slow speed chase when he was in his taxi, hearing that oj was a couple of miles behind him, he saw all the people on the overpass as he witnessed the spectacle. they pulled the taxi to the

side, my that point out the guy kept the meter running the whole time and my dad watched as oj and this comment with the flames of police cars behind him traveling off that highway in a bizarre spectacle that was the beginning of something, i think it is fair to say, in cable news and our media culture. >> it was truly a where were you tv moment. you went through the kennedy assassination with the challenger explosion in 1986, you can tell a story similar to what you just told. and i think it also showed the public was taking control of the story. they want to know everything about it. at this time in 1994, the evening newscast had over 30 million viewers a night. tom brokaw, peter jennings, and dan rather. they really dictated the news agenda. i think it stopped on this day because the networks, the network news was still pretty buttoned-down institution at

the time. this was kind of a tawdry story that is not something that you would cover every night normally. you didn't see trials like that covered. but, the public was so interested in all of the aspects of this case and there were places where they could see it when they wanted it, 24 hour cable news on cnn, court tv. there was already an appetite for this type of thing. you saw it with the menendez trial a few years before and the williams kennedy smith case. that this amped it up by a multitude, just the celebrity, race, , it had so many elements in it. incredible, the public was sitting there transfixed by d.n.a. testimony. it was almost an education of the legal system at the same time. >> a few years later, it would shift from los angeles to

washington, d.c. in bill clinton, monica lewinsky, 24/7 as well. >> created a new class of journalists, the legal commentator and the law became something that was talked about in a sophisticated degree and on television after this. >> this morning, the times was talking about how there were many tragedies here. one of the tragedies was that there were two americans on vivid display. i was on an airplane when the verdict was announced and everybody screamed in shock and horror. and yet that was where white america was. >> absolutely. i remember that day because it was october 3rd, my birthday. and emma jesse jackson and i had done an interview at a local station in new york. we walked outside, the verdict had come in and a guy was driving by, white guy driving a truck. he said we will get even with you guys.

we set i thought he was saying happy birthday. what is he talking about ? the verdict was that. no one really knew this better than ed gordon, who got the first interview with oj and ed gordon remains one of the premier black journalists in our country. ed, talk about how a lot of black american is not necessarily for oj but was for johnny cochran and being able to show that we could make the system work our way because we didn't feel that there was enough evidence for oj ? i remember johnny cochran had asked me to visit oj and jill and i said this is not a civil rights issue, i wanted to go. we were torn between that. we were not necessarily oj but we were for johnny and ensuring that he could defeat those that were ill-prepared to prove their case. >> i think you are right, reverend. thank you for allowing me this time to talk about something. it's hard to believe sometimes it has been 30 years.

i think you hit the nail on the head. the idea that this was not about oj simpson. people forget that oj had been a beloved football star but as his time went on as a celebrity, his popularity in black america had waned, quite frankly by the time all of this happened. it really was about the idea of finally seeing an african- american male in particular beat a system that had beat us down for so very long. that coupled with the idea of the relationship that the lapd had with the black community all of those years so it was kind of a david beats goliath for the first time moment. and, i think that we have to understand that this trial was really not only about the trial but it was about america and race. that was the personification of the division that has become so vivid that we see today. so, it was one of those

touchstone moments that we can look back on and say that this spoke as much about o.j. simpson and those murders as it did where we sit in america. up next, our friend steve ratner joins us with his take on what the u.s. economy continues to run extremely hot. welcome to the wayborhood. with wayfair, finding your style is fun. [ music playing ] yes! when the music stops grab any chair, it doesn't matter if it's your outdoor style or not. [ music stops ] i'm sorry, carl. this is me in chair form. i don't see you. -oh, come on. this one's perfect for you. but you. love it. i told you we should have done a piñata. i explained it so many times. um-hum. they're not sitting. -and it rocks... you need to sit down. ♪ wayfair. every style. every home. ♪ (fisher investments) at fisher investments we may look like other money managers, but we're different. (other money manager) how so? (fisher investments) we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client'' best interest.

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joining us now is former treasury official and morning joe economic analyst, steve ratner. >> are rates going to have to go up, are we going to have to put rates up? this economy is so hot. >> the economy is hot. vision has come down enormously. we are in the 3% range, it is just stuck at the moment and not getting better.

there are a few people, larry summers said there was a 15 to 25% chance rates would have to go up. i think that is pretty unlikely. i think what we are looking at instead is simply delaying rates, and down. people thought rates might start to come down as soon as this june. i think that is off the table. we might be looking at the fall, we might be looking at november. >> what happens if they raise them right now, what? >> if they raise them right now, if they raise rates right now, it is bad for consumers, paying higher interest rates on your credit cards. >> lower, what happens if they lower them? >> if they lower them, to run the risk that you accelerate inflation more. >> the hot economy even hotter. >> the economy is already hot. we've been talking for a year and half about the resilience of this economy. i've asked you this a dozen times. what continues to drive this economy ? >> the economy is incredibly hot. it is driven by a few things, one of them have been a number of the government programs we

put in place, the ira bill, the climate change bill, the build back better infrastructure bill, things like that, the chips act have created a lot of demand. when you look at what is going on out there, these, for example, wind and solar power facilities are being built, chips factories are being built. all of that is stimulating the economy and the economy has outperformed what anyone thought. the second thing is, i don't want to get technical, but there's a theory that the economy doesn't respond as strongly as it used to the higher interest rates. for whatever set of reasons, raising rates, which is what the fed headed for a wild, doesn't necessarily seem to be slowing the economy as much as people would expect. the economy is consistently outperforming and that shows up in inflation data and it shows up in the possibility, the likelihood that rate cuts will be delayed. >> steve, we are looking for specifics of the inflation

report, things are up so much, car insurance is up 20% year- over-year, eldercare, taking care of people in your home, 15%. very specific things at the grocery store. not everything but somethings. how does a regular person like us who goes shopping every day, how do you make sense of the volatility and fluctuations ? >> month-to-month, you will see all kinds of funny things happening. if you look at the inflation more broadly, what happened was ices of services, insurance, things like that, were pretty strong. services tend to be harder to get under control because they are very labor intensive and wages going up, services tend to as well. goods were very moderate. in fact, what didn't get as much attention perhaps is a lot of the stuff people buy everyday, gasoline, up 1.2%. groceries for food at home, up 1.3%. a lot of the everyday items are actually under reasonable control. a lot of the stuff around the

edges. the other important point to make is that notwithstanding, wages went up faster than inflation last month. people's purchasing power is still going up. i know nobody likes inflation and i know it obviously has certain political implications and people don't fully appreciate that since the beginning of the biden administration, as well as in this grant stagnation of inflation reduction, if you want to call it that, real wages, purchasing power, is still going up for the average american. coming up next, 13 time grammy winner and oscar winner t-bone burnett talks to us about his new album. album. u of, but for me a stressful day can trigger migraine attacks too. that's why my go to is nurtec odt. it's the only migraine medication that can treat and prevent my attacks all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion and stomach pain. now i'm in control. with nurtec odt i can treat a migraine attack and prevent one. talk to your doctor about nurtec today.

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♪ man of constant sorrow. just one of the songs in the critically acclaimed film "oh brother where art thou." the movie soundtrack would earn legendary musician t-bone burnett the first of his, count them, 13 grammy awards.

>> where do you put those? >> you have a lot of them. >> when i was living in los angeles, i put them in a closet. >> all together on a shelf ? >> when i moved to nashville, people get a kick out of them. >> producing unforgettable movie soundtracks and collaborating with some of the world's biggest artists. he would add and oscar to write a resume for his work on the 2009 film, "crazy heart." for the first time in nearly 2 decades, t-bone is putting himself front and center again with his first traditional solo album since 2006. it is called "the other side." and it marked a return to his roots as a singer and songwriter from ft. worth, texas and their prolific music producer, songwriter, and soundtrack composer t-bone burnett joins us now. is this about a love story ? >> you know, i always viewed

the goal of art is to create conscience. i was reading a couple of years ago some shocking number of number one songs had the word you in the title. the beatles first four songs were love me do where do you is impolite, from me to you, she loves you and i want to hold your hand. with those four songs, they still treated the conscience of my whole generation. now we have politicians going around using that same technique. it is a very powerful technique. like i am your retribution. >> that doesn't have, it is a little harder to dance that. it is more than i alone can fix it. >> good to carry a torch to.

so, t-bone, i would guess that, this is the first album of your stuff in quite a while. i would guess you didn't stop writing songs. that stays with you. what was it that made you stop and go, you know what, it is time to get from behind the board and get out front? >> i got through that time of, i spent my whole life writing about this dystopia that we are in now and i realized i had to find a way through it, you know? i had a dream that when i was a kid, that these men in black were cutting off, i was in the parish hall of the church and they were cutting off our hands and putting electronic hands on that would be our control mechanism. it was a horrifying nightmare. i had a recurring nightmare. >> that is quite a nightmare. >> different from the dreams i was having as a kid.

go ahead. you were dreaming about, go ahead. >> about 15 years ago, i was at a coffee shop and everyone in the coffee shop was looking at the phone and i realized i didn't have to cut our hands off, they just put it in her hands. at that point, i realized i had to wrap up my work in this dystopia and i realized that, i found that the way through it is through hearing tone appeared underneath everything is tone. it just led me into a whole new phase of my life. that is all the time we have for today but we will be right back here tomorrow at 6:00 a.m. eastern. stay tuned for the weekend, enjoy the rest of your saturday. saturday. good morning. it is saturday, april