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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  April 17, 2024 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT

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spokeswoman for that campaign and she believes that people in arizona will not be fooled. we are seeing a sustained voter outreach and interest in seeing past the office to occasion. voters didn't fall for a change in rules and they went on to pass it overwhelmingly. what you are hearing in arizona is people scrambling. notice what the republicans are offering to put on the ballot directly relies on trying to confuse people. to be clear some of it is harming patients because all of these dueling laws and which one is in effect has prevented people from getting abortions in arizona even when it is legal and allowed. so it has consequences but the politics of it, there is no reason to think arizona will be different from many of the red
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states where the democratic process of the supreme court said it wanted to allow dobbs, voters will say actually we want abortion to be legal safe and accessible. >> thank you for your great reporting on this. i appreciate your time tonight. that is our show for tonight, now it is time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. we have andrew weitzman joining us and andrew who used to work in the ag's office in new york. both have much to teach us about the status of defendant trump tonight. breaking news about defendant trump, he appears to have violated the judges gag order on mentions and attacks of jurors in his case. on his social media website tonight, trump reposted
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something posted by the 8 pm host on fox. jesse waters. jesse waters says they are catching undercover liberal activists lying to the judge in order to get on the trump jury and there is trump himself posting that on social media tonight for the jurors in his case to see calling them liberal activists and liars. trump is calling his jurors who have already been seated liars because what jesse waters is referring to their are the jurors, the seven who have already been officially seated on the jury. that is who he is referring to and he is seeing they lied their way onto the jury. trump is endorsing that. the words are the same as trump
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writing them himself. that was trump's choice, to violate his gag order tonight. possibly in the very worst way. in fact definitely in the worst way, he has violated gag order so far. this is a severe test of what the judge is prepared to do with trump violating the gag order in the worst possible way by attacking, specifically attacking the seven jurors already seated in this case. the judge has already tolerated which is to say not acted yet on the claims by the da that trump has violated the gag order in other ways but this is by far the most severe way trump could violate the gag order by going after the jurors in his case.
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this is by any interpretation, juror intimidation. specifically aimed at intimidating the seven people already seated on that jury and anybody else that might be seated on that jury. when you are seated on trump's jury you will be attacked, you will be publicly attacked by trump and his allies in the news media. this is the challenge that the judge is going to have to deal with immediately in this case. he has paused his timing on hearing the question of violations of the gag order already but this one with jury selection in process ready to resume tomorrow morning, this one seems impossible to see how the judge can wait on that and we will discuss that any moment with andrew. it is important to remember, something about donald trump and the way he lives.
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nobody proves just how much trump lies better than trump and he did that again today. this time he proved his lawyers are liars as well. trump claimed delete that the manhattan criminal trial he must now attend has kept him from campaigning for president, his lawyers falsely presented the same thing. the judge said at the outset that there will be no wednesday session in the criminal trial of trump, so trump knew all along there would be no session today and today when trump had no obligation in court anywhere in the country, trump did absolutely nothing. the crucial electoral college state of pennsylvania is only a hour away from trump's manhattan apartment. president biden was campaigning
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once again today in pennsylvania but trump did nothing. no campaigning at all. maybe trump spent the day napping anymore comfortable chair than the court room chair that he reportedly managed to doze off in this week. his criminal defense lawyers spent the day pondering once again what a catastrophe it would be if trump attempted to testify in his own defense because today the da and his team of prosecutors in a required filing in the case revealed all of the issues they would use to attack trump's credibility in cross- examination on the witness stand if trump testifies. the notice submitted to the judge says the people hereby disclose a list of all misconduct and criminal acts of the defendant not charged in the indictment which the people intend to use at trial to impeach the credibility of the
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defendant, if he chooses to testify for the people intend to inquire regarding the following. the first item is the case taken by the ag against trump in which trump is now ordered to pay 354 million. the da described the case this way, the defendant repeatedly and persistently falsified underlying records to falsified business records, issue false facts, issue false financial statements and inspired to commit insurance fraud by fraudulently misstating assets including the trump tower by overstating the square footage by nearly 3 times. now every member of that manhattan jury knows either exactly or almost exactly how many square feet their apartment is.
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none of them could overestimate the size of the manhattan apartments by three times. no juror with a studio apartment things they live in a three-bedroom apartment. those facts used against trump on the witness stand would be devastating but the da would present more in cross-examining trump and attacking his credibility. quote, defendant testified untruthfully under oath when he claimed the comments about his law clerk was instead about a witness. the court held as a prior fact, i find trump's testimony rings hollow and untrue. intentionally violating court orders by making public attacks on a judges law clerk despite two prior court orders not to do so. defendant committed repeated and persistent fraud in the transaction by fraudulently misstating the value of his
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assets. all of that is just from the one case the ag took against trump and the da intends to use both of the eiji carol cases against trump if he takes the stand. if he testifies in the case the da will refer to the eiji carol cases in cross-examination. the jury awarded eiji carol 83,800,000 for damages for defamatory statements, the jury awarded the plaintiff 2,020,000 in punitive damages on her sexual abuse claim. the da will also use a finding in a lawsuit trump filed against clinton. court sanctioned the defendant and ordered him to pay 937,000 $989 in fees for filing a frivolous bad-faith lawsuit,
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the court held that he is the mastermind of strategic abuse of the judicial process and cannot be seen as a litigant blindly following the advice of a lawyer. the da would also use the criminal conviction of the trump business, people versus the trump corporation. quote trump corporation and payroll court, convicted of 17 felony counts of scheming to defraud conspiracy, and falsifying business records in connection with a scheme to pay unreported non-cash compensation to top executives and the da would use another civil case against trump, defendant illegally allowed his 2016 presidential campaign to orchestrate a fundraiser for the donald trump foundation, direct distribution of the funds and
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used the fundraiser and distribution to further the defendant's political campaign, court ordered the defendant to pay 2 million for breach of fiduciary duty to the dissolution of the donald trump foundation to resolve claims by the new york ag to breach fiduciary duty and waste failure to properly administer charitable assets -- and repeated and willful self dealing transactions. trump's lawyers will surely oppose every single one of the cases being brought up at trial. the judge will hold a hearing on this issue after jury selection is complete and it could occur as early as friday. trump is by far the stupidest republican presidential nominee in american history but he thinks in many cases and he may be right about this, his voters
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are stupider than he is and that is what he complained about only having 10 challenges to use against potential jurors in the selection process. the trump defense and the prosecution each have already used six of the 10 challenges with seven jurors seated in the case with a additional five necessary to complete 212 person jury with six alternates yet to be chosen. today at social media trump said i thought strikes were supposed to be unlimited when we were picking our jury. i was then told we only had 10. not nearly enough. trump's lawyers have known or should have known from the day trump got indicted a year ago that for the crimes he is charged with, every defendant in the state of new york and every prosecutor gets 10 challenges. if trump went out on fifth avenue and shot someone then he
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would get 20. for a class a felony. there is no place in america where any defendant gets a unlimited number of challenges. it does not exist but trump believes his voters are relentlessly ignorant and do not know that. the trump voters that do know that are the ones that have been criminally charged for their attack on the capital ungenerous six. there are places where you would get less than 10 challenges. many places. the state of arizona in its infinite wisdom under the control of the republican state legislature is the only state that decided to give criminal defendants like trump exactly zero challenges. leading off the discussion is andrew weissman, former fbi general counsel in the eastern
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district of new york. a legal analyst and co-author of the best selling book the trump indictments. the charging documents with commentary. also with us, adam former assistant ag for the state of new york and somewhere around the corner is adam's eighth grade daughter who is here on take your daughter to work night, great to have her here. i want to go straight to this trump attack on the jurors in his case. him quoting at social media, they are catching undercover liberal activists lying to the judge in order to get on the trump jury. this looks like a very sharp challenge for the judge on enforcing his gag order. >> let me fill you in. on march 26 of this year, the judge issued a order to the parties and the relevant part
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says the following. trump and any party are prohibited from doing the following, making or directing others to make public statements about any prospective juror or any juror in this criminal proceeding. so it is hard to see why trump is not egging on the judge to say i am now in contempt. for whatever political purposes he may be doing that. he is clearly asking for it. i think it is incumbent on the judge to treat him like any other party. as i have said repeatedly it is the road to to not treat him like everyone else. it is very hard to see the defense that will be made, i will not be surprised if the da
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revises the pending motion to include this and i think the judge will certainly want to give the opportunity for the defense to be heard. that is required by due process but it is hard to see why there will not be sanctions for this conduct. >> the judge already has a motion pending from the da about comments trump has made about witnesses. michael cohen, witnesses that have been talked about publicly a lot. the judge did not race to protect michael cohen in that situation. jurors are a different status in a situation like this. this seems like a matter the judge will have to deal with on a emergency basis. >> i think that is right, we already saw in the trial this week him reprimanding trump for talking around in the presence of a juror, already holding him
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to task, i think you will go directly to this. he will beat out a punishment if necessary. >> it goes to the question of punishment. i know all of the judges in the back of their minds, facing something like this, and this is the worst we have seen by far. the specific seven people he is talking about lying there. there is the issue of what can you do. a former president with secret service protection mandated by law, there is nothing anybody can do to remove that protection. it is mandated. the idea that a local judge in manhattan could send trump to rikers island jail, with a secret service delegation of a couple of dozen 24 hours a day
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for whatever period of time we are talking about, that is several shifts of agents, that would require a hearing where the secret service is testifying about protecting him there and they will testify they do not know how to do that. i know the judge is envisioning, unlike any other defendant, putting this person in jail has logistical and practical challenges that may be beyond their capacities. then can open a question like, do you give him home confinement as a alternative? in that case make the secret service be his jailers as well as protectors? >> i hate to sound a hardened former prosecutor but that plea falls on deaf ears to me. there are places in jails that somebody can be kept very safe. put him in a cell with nobody
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else in the cell. nobody else will get to him. if you are concerned about the secret service, the reason they are there is so that there is no crazy person that will take it upon themselves to take a shot at a public figure or former public figure and that is something that is less of a concern in various places that are in federal and state prisons, there is also ways to put somebody in lockup for a temporary period of time in the courthouse. remember the first step i think is finds that are one of the mandated sanctions in the second step can be jail up to 30 days for any single violation. if you have multiple violations,
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there are already three alleged violations. this would be a fort. it can be 30 days and 30 days. i usually do not do that in public but a thing that comes to 120. you do not have to go to the maximum at first but in the term of art is you can step him back. so he spends some time like a child in timeout. secret service is something i think people put too much weight on, just because somebody has secret service protection does not mean they cannot do jail time and in this country nobody is above the law and if it is determined jail is appropriate secret service will have to figure it out as part of the rule of law in this country. >> one of the reasons i mentioned secret service in this very court room, the judge, when the question arose
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of trump joining the sidebars, he was concerned about that because secret service agents would have to accompany trump to the sidebars which i submit is utterly ridiculous but that is how countless people are by the secret service, that room could not be safer. the idea that trump will move from his chair over to hear and somehow is in danger is one of those indicators of just how cowed by the notion of presidential protection delegations judges and other people can be. as we go forward here it seems this is the crucial moment and it seems like trump is trying to find that line, the spot where i can either prove to you that you cannot put me in jail, you will not dare put me in
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jail and i will prove it or the other side of the trump crazy corn, you will put me in jail and i will somehow have martyr status because of it. >> these are great observations about the secret service. the new york state court rooms are safe, there is multiple layers of security. he can move around the courtroom safely. as andrew just said there can be multiple levels of punishment, of contempt to get him to a point where he stops doing this without getting to these fears you just mentioned. if the judge wants to start with a fine, if the judge wants to start with home detention he can take steps to ensure trump is complying with the orders. >> we will squeeze in a quick break and we will be back with andrew and adam on this breaking news about trump's clear violation of the judge's gag order and other matters for defendant trump, we will be right back. right back. they're quitting the kibble. and kicking the cans.
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adam, to restate the breaking news of the night, donald trump has violated a court order and it gag order on him about mentioning anything about the jurors in his criminal trial tonight on social media. he posted something written by jesse waters, the 8 pm host at fox, they are lies by fox about the jury and it says trump posted this himself. it says they are catching undercover liberal activists lying to the judge in order to get on the trump jury. that is a slanderous lie by the slander headquarters at fox news that have already been found to be corporate and public liars to the tune of hundreds of millions that they have had to pay because of that.
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this is another case of that by jesse waters lying about the seven jurors already seated in the case. trump adopted the lie on his own and put it on social media and violated the judges order in the case for all parties to never say anything about jurors and violated the specific gag order on trump and andrew, what are you expecting now? tomorrow morning when the judge gavels this case back into the process of jury selection. do you expect to hear about this is the first item of business? >> yes. let me point out, the fact of the statements being lies or truthful is irrelevant to the issue. to be clear that gag order was not making any public statements. even if they were truthful it would be a violation.
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the gag order is, do not speak about any juror or prospective juror and that is why this is something that is very clean and clear for the judge to respond to. what i would expect, leaving aside i think the da will clearly raise this, i think the judge will say i will deal with the issue of what the punishment is after i hear from both parties but in the interim i am telling you this is stopping immediately. i can also see him ordering that this post be taken down immediately. man he will impose requirements of due process to hear from both sides as to why this is or is not a violation of the order but i think judges are particularly sensitive to issues involving civilian jurors and in my experience that is a line that cannot be crossed.
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it is hard for me to imagine the judge is not livid right now. at the very least it will be the first thing that comes up tomorrow. >> it turns out the work of the attorney general in the civil matters against trump has now become relevant to this case, you see the da sing if trump takes the witness stand, this is a filing they are required to file, if he takes the witness stand what might we want to use from other cases to attack his credibility? they presented all of the work of the attorney general, and it is about fraudulent business records which is what this case is about. the stormy daniels payoff is about fraudulent records. >> the list you read earlier is a long list. he has done a lot of prior bad
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acts that the prosecution can use to impeach his credibility. should he choose to testify in the case. >> andrew, of that list, what do you expect the judge would actually allow? i want to insert parentheses, trump will never take the witness stand in this case. one of the reasons we know that is everything we are seeing on the list. however the judge still has to make a ruling ahead of time for the defendant, if you do take the witness stand, i will allow them to bring up the ichi carol case or what you did to the clerk in the other case or the ag's case. will all of these survive as the da wants them to as possible avenues of attack on trump if he takes the witness stand?
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>> a couple of things, i am sure trump will use whatever is allowed by the judge as cross- examination material, as a excuse to say, while the judge is allowing this i will not testify. he was never going to testify. it is going to be the end of the road for him in this case. the prosecutors are far too good and have way too much ammunition for that to ever be a successful strategy and defense attorneys like susan know that. maybe he will do something incredibly foolish but i doubt it. with respect to the list of items, it is worth noting that the state is seeking two things. it is saying it is entitled to bring out some of the information, not all but some of it regardless of whether trump testifies were not in the
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alternative says to the extent that you think some of the cannot come in regardless of whether he testifies, some of it should be allowed, the remainder should be allowed as cross-examination material if he testifies so there are two separate issues before the judge. i do not think all of it will come in but there is so much cross-examination material, lead aside what is on this list, as you know from covering trump or his entire presidency, all of the lies he has told is also fodder for the cross- examination so i do not think the judge will allow all of it but this is one where, it is a sad state of affairs for our country, there is a embarrassment of riches here. >> on the bond trump has apparently posted in the ag's
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case, the trump lawyers filed a explanation of that bond last night. we had it for the day. what do you see in the bond? >> the first question it raises is why is it this take? why is it on hundred and 14 pages of material when a bond written by a licensed insurer is for pages, you really want to know what is going on. >> one of the possibilities is the collateral the bondholder says he has from trump, 175 million cash. there is a possibility that trump has pledged that money in other directions. >> this question is certainly raised. there is a schwab account that has 175 million in it presently. they note they did not redact
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the account number from the public internet filing. at this moment it has 175 million in it and the question is, given that trump and trumps businesses are in business with this insurer and others, to where else has this account been pledged and why is that money still in trumps control instead of deposited as collateral with the insurer. there are a lot of questions being raised. >> there will be a hearing on it next weekend we will get into the details then. andrew and adam, thank you both for joining us on this breaking news discussion tonight. coming up, we have a winner for the stupidest move of the year on the senate floor, the move that short-circuited the attempted impeachment proceeding of a biden cabinet official today. that is next. at is next.
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the senate had its shortest impeachment proceeding in history thanks to the incompetence of senator eric schmidt of missouri. he decided to object to a unanimous consent agreement requested by the majority leader chuck schumer. worked out with republican leader mitch mcconnell about how to proceed. something the leaders always do with every impeachment proceeding. the rules are always different for every proceeding and eric schmidt decided he had a smarter idea so he refused to
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agree to the unanimous consent request by senator schumer were upon senator schumer said okay let's just go to to dismiss the case now which is essentially what they did after going through a few procedural votes on the senate floor but thrown up there desperately and hopelessly by other republicans like eric schmidt. the whole thing took a few hours and that was the end of it. senator schumer was offering the republicans of ours of debate in that was cut off by the idiocy of republican senator eric schmidt am a freshman who had no idea what he was doing on the senate floor today. so the senate voted along party lines the motion to dismiss and closed the book on the single most absurd impeachment case ever sent to the u.s. senate. the impeachment of homeland security secretary alejandro. that is all over. meanwhile in the house of are
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presented as a vote is not yet scheduled on a series of bills introduced to find urgent aid for ukraine and israel. >> the time has come for the house of representatives to act decisively in america's national security. this is a churchill or chamberlain moment. we can either confront russian aggression in defense of democracy or we can allow the pro-russian extreme republicans to appease it. >> joining our discussion now is a member of the house oversight committee and a former member of the house jury counsel. for the first impeachment investigation of trump. thank you for joining us.
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in your own experience, i can imagine how absurd it was to watch what was going on at the house of representatives, chuck schumer got the impeachment material, looked at it, said this is unconstitutional, it does not present, even referred to in the slightest, annie klein or misdemeanor of any kind so he went for the motion to dismiss and of course it was gone as quickly as we all expected it to be when the republicans were working on it. >> absolutely, that is a fitting and to what is a shameful moment in the history of the house of representatives. even if you accept the allegations in the articles of impeachment, they do not arise to the level of any crime or misdemeanor much less a high crime or misdemeanor and there is no evidence to support the
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allegations they have so the only proper outcome was to not legitimize this clearly partisan political effort to help trumps election campaign by putting a impeachment on somebody other than trump and that is what all of this was about. as the secretary was negotiating a border security bill in the senate the house was impeaching him to fail addressing the border. it does not get more hypocritical than that and the senate did the right thing by the constitution, not because of partisan politics or anything else. the constitution cannot withstand this kind of abuse by the house republicans nor should it. chuck schumer and the senate democrats that the right thing because this impeachment should never be legitimized. >> it is one of the only things
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the house of representatives has actually voted on that the majority actually passed. they did nothing on aid to israel or ukraine. >> yes they passed it after two attempts, lest not forget. they failed the first time and just by one vote the second time. i am optimistic we now have in front of us, the senate border war rather the foreign aid bill that was passed a number of weeks ago and has been languishing in the house as ukraine has been dwindling in its ammunition and its ability to withstand russia. i cannot emphasize enough to you, how vital and urgent this aid is for ukraine. first and foremost. they are out of ammunition and russia is making moves and pushing forward. ukraine can take this work as it had been doing prior to our
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delay in support that they will lose if they do not get our support. i am optimistic that we will be able to pass this bill on saturday. i applaud speaker johnson for doing the right thing in the face of a lot of opposition from the party of vladimir putin which is the majority for the house republican party. >> thank you very much for joining our discussion. coming up, how trumps favorite republican candidate lake is no defending the 1864 law that bans abortion in arizona. her solution did not exist in 1864, the automobile. that is next. that is next. the places we cheer. trust. hang out.
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♪ i'll be there... ♪ ♪ you don't... ♪ ♪ you don't have to worry... ♪ here is what the republican candidate for senate in arizona is telling women in that state about their new way of life, living under a 1864 law banning abortion. so get in your car and start driving. that is her solution. once again republicans in the arizona legislature blocked a move by democrats to repeal that 1864 law which has now
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become a 2024 law fully supported by the republican elected officials in arizona. after winning the vote to preserve that law today, republicans in the house of representatives celebrated. the university of virginia's center for politics published the update on the senate race, in arizona's senate race we now see the democrats as a narrow favorite so we are pushing that race from tossup to liens democratic. at this point they are ahead of kerry lake in fundraising. just about every democrat running in competitive senate races this year significantly outraised the gop challenger in the first quarter.
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nbc news notes not only have democrats been out raising the republican challengers and building their cash reserves, new reports show they are now largely outspending the republican opponents and politico reports how trump is harming republican senate campaigns. in a letter received by digital vendors this week, the trump campaign is asking for down ballot candidates who use his name, image and likeness to give at least 5% of the proceeds to the campaign. that is trump imposing a five percent trump tariff on republican candidates who will discover that like other tariffs, the campaign terrace or not paid by china. joining us now is democratic senator gary peters, chair of the democratic campaign committee. you are the mastermind of this fix big lead that the candidates
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have in fundraising at this stage, how important is that? >> it is incredibly important. to have the resources to ensure we have strong and robust campaigns. clearly what we are seeing this cycle is similar to last cycle when we made history and were able to hold the senate and expand the majority in a midterm election and we are on track to do the same thing. in addition to raising record amounts of money, a big reason why we are doing that is frankly we have superior candidates. incumbents that represent their states with honor and distinction and understand their folks are better than anyone and running against deeply flawed republican candidates. we talk about kerry lake, she has become more extreme from when she lost her race for governor and has taken a position that is out of step
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with the majority of arizona voters when it comes to reproductive rights for women. this clear contrast in relation to the resources although we need more because republicans have a lot of money, especially dark money that will come in which is why we need to raise money. we need to defend the senate and that is why we have our online fundraising arm which is critical to make sure we can support the democratic candidates in the tough fights, fighting for democracy and for their state and the future of this country. >> today, kerry lake said to the women of arizona, if you do not like living under a 1864 law about what medical services are available to you, get in your car and drive to california, where they will welcome you. this is what republican campaigns are sounding like now and there is no reason to expect
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they will come up with a better answer. >> i do not think so, you are right. you hear trump who is the architect of overturning roe v wade, the reason women through protective freedoms have been taken away, he says leave it to the states and we see what happens in some of these states. in arizona there is a out right ban were women will not have the opportunity to get the healthcare they deserve and to say they have to go somewhere else, in this country, every woman regardless of where they live should have rights that are protected, it should not matter what state they are in but that is not what we are seeing from republican candidates, that is out of step with the majority of american people and come november we will hear loud and clear that the view is being rejected and our democratic senate candidates will take all of the battleground states.
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>> your reward for running the senate campaign so successfully two years ago is that they asked you to do it again. which is unusual in that job. i am not sure which of you has the tougher job, chuck schumer or you. you both have had a strong week. thank you very much. we will be right back. ht b. o is nurtec odt. it's the only migraine medication that can treat and prevent my attacks all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion and stomach pain. now i'm in control. with nurtec odt i can treat a migraine attack and prevent one. talk to your doctor about nurtec today.
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