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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  April 19, 2024 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT

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denying any sort of access to reproductive care, the rats of new york city are getting a delicious contraceptive. we can't get any contraceptive but the rats are getting a savory birth-control and i think if you talk to any woman somebody said you can have putin that is birth control, we would be very excited. >> how do rats have more rights than women in america? what is this hell skate? i want to acknowledge the nas.30th anniversary of this university gymnast who won the 2020 gymnastics collegiate championship, organ price, you go, girl. morgan price won the week. thank you very much. all in with chris hayes starts now.
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the full jury is set. three more sleeps before the trial of donald trump. >> we are going to have opening statements on monday. this trial is starting. >> trump is going into monday kicking and screaming. >> tonight, a last ditch effort to delay is denied. >> he said sir, we are not finished. sit down, and donald trump was incredibly humbled by that but also peeved. >> a barrage of rulings from the courthouse, including which prior bad acts can be used at trial. >> when you show the defendant has bad character, the jury is much more inclined to convict them. >> then the historic vote in the house marking major defeat for donald trump and vladimir putin. >> last night after midnight we officially lost control of the house to the democrats. 200 days from election day, america's re-acquaintance with donald trump is going well for
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president biden. all in starts now. good evening from new york. i am chris hayes. next week this big experiment is set to begin, one we've never seen before in all of american history. ever since the sixth amendment was ratified in 1791, every american accused of crime in this country has been guaranteed the right to a trial by jury, but for over 200 years, no jury filled with average american citizens has ever sat in judgment of the man who held the oval office. that full jury for this experiment has now been selected for the first criminal trial of a former president. the seven men, five men and -- five women who make up the journey will decide if donald
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trump is found guilty. of course that will be a heavy burden for them to carry. a former member of trump's legal team told new york magazine that he expects some jurors will be again to crack under the immense pressure they will be under, particularly if their identities become public. you can see the weight wearing on potential jurors today. two people expressed the situation was already much more stressful than expected. one woman broke down crying saying quote, i have to be honest, i feel so nervous and anxious right now. i'm sorry. another was dismissed after telling the court quote, i have really bad anxiety people of found out where i am. of course, this will not be the first high-profile, high profile high stress case. just last week we were talking about the 1995 murder trial of o.j. simpson which is probably, i would hazard, the closest comparison. the trial of trump is in its own stratosphere is the defendant himself. when he was not resting his eyes in the courtroom as he did multiple times this week, trump was admonished for his behavior toward a potential juror. judge marchand blasted the
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defendant for speaking out of turn. on top of that, trump has been, to my mind, flagrantly violating the gag order against him that prohibits him from speaking about jurors, court, staff, prosecutors in the case. yesterday prosecutors urged judge marchand to hold trump in contempt for those violations. the judge said he would not rule on that until next week. then a truly horrifying scene during lunch break. a man set himself on fire. police identified the man's as max azzarello from new york. he remains in critical care in the hospital tonight. the court did manage to continue after that interruption holding what is called a sandoval hearing,
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outlining the scope of questions the defendant can face during the trial so the defendant can decide whether he wants to testify in his own defense. >> we just had another hearing on the trial starts on monday [ inaudible ] >> we will see about that. before the day was over, trump faced one final setback. an appeals court denied his hail mary request to delay the trial and move the venue out of manhattan so just three days from now, the first criminal trial of a former president will kickoff near manhattan with opening statements. i want to start working
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backward from that ruling, the last hail mary up to the appellate court to get a delay in the venue changed. did that have a chance at all it was the sort of like the many motions we have seen them file? >> just like the many motions. this idea that there is worse publicity in manhattan and there is anywhere else really doesn't make a lot of sense. >> yeah, it's the 21st century. they're going to find you. and that was the argument they were making but it does strike me, again, i always ask this question. this flurry of attempts to delay the trial, to get the venue moved, all of the stuff we've seen is not standard practice, right? >> no. there are pretrial motions to move venue. i've seen those. i've dealt with those but the
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fact that they keep coming, every time you get shot down you just keep saying reconsider, like that is not normal. >> that relates to the question i want to ask you, olivia, as someone who is covered trump for a while now. there are people in his circle who will say sometimes anonymously and sometimes like bring it on. everything seems like he really doesn't want to be there, doesn't want this to happen. >> clearly doesn't want to be there. i've seen him a lot of different settings, in the white house, trump tower, mar-a- lago you name it, i spent a lot of time with this man and i was really not prepared for the sight of him in that courtroom today. it's this very drab space with terrible lighting and all kind of neutrals and he comes in technicolor orange and with the golden hair and the sky blue suit and he looks unreal, like a poppy flower or something in the desert, and it is so strange to see him in that context but no power. he kind of sprung up at the end of this hearing after his
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lawyer had just been completely reprimanded by the judge for these delay attempts and he sprung up when it was over and the judge probably looked at him and said sir, could you please sit back down. he didn't call him mr. president. it was not overly polite and he had to sink back into his seat. he has no power in there. >> i mean, that really is -- and again, the sort of physical bearing of him and again, this is the nominee for one of the parties. it's like so wild to keep reminding yourself that but if it were anyone else it would be like wow, the slumped shoulders, the clear exhaustion on his face, like he looks very defeated by the end of the day. >> i thought initially he's performing being very bored. who could be bored and fall asleep at their own criminal trial. it seemed absurd to me but seeing him in there today on the way out you could see how exhausted he was. he was sort of hobbling and looked like he just gotten off a long flight or something, and i just thought, how's he going to do this for the duration of this trial? >> today he complained about the trial being both too fast and too long, so he said judge
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rashad is railroading me at breakneck speed to satisfy his friends and he is gag me and this goes on forever. you can look it up if you want to. he also posted, this trial is a long rigged endurance contest dealing with mackey -- nasty tricky people who want to destroy our country. on the pacing it does not seem like this week's jury selection happened quite expeditiously. >> when you got through each group of 96 at least 50 were saying we're out of this. we can't be fair and impartial so they were out and then you took these groups of 18 and once you got through the 42 questions each of them have to be asked, that's tedious. that takes some time and then once you got through that, the strikes themselves happened pretty quickly so the fact that this has moved along i think has made a lot of sense and is pretty consistent with what you would see in a high profile
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jury case. >> what do you think it will mean for trump world to have him there for the next four weeks? >> he is running for president and we talked about this the other night but the campaign in the short and -- court are sharing custody of him. his weekends are free, maybe on wednesdays and he has been planning rallies. i noticed he has one in wildwood, new jersey on may 11th so they are preparing for the strange logistics of this but i have to imagine is also going to be very tired on days when he does not have court, and how much stamina does he really have? i don't know. >> again just to reset the fact here, the man is 77 years old. he will turn 78. there's been so much talk about joe biden's age but he is a 77- year-old man facing criminal
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charges for the first time in his life. these are less than ideal conditions to do anything. >> and he wants a busy schedule, but he needs to feed off of a crowd. he needs attention. he absorbs that in comes out more energetic. this is not that. >> this is just a pure energy sap. let's talk about the jury because we now have 12 jurors and six alternates. what is your impression, what are your thoughts on how this jury has come together, what the composition looks like? >> well, you have two lawyers on this jury than you have in addition, three individuals who say close family members, spouse, parents, in-laws and lawyers as well so that is nearly half your jury of people who i would expect as a baseline have some respect for the law and have a sense of how it goes. even the people who are close family members, i'm guessing you have some experience with this, chris, but lawyers when they go home still tend to talk about the law in their day. they have some sense about how
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this is supposed to work that you respect the judge, respect counsel, respect the jury, so if he starts acting up and being really disruptive i think at a minimum, those jurors are going to really not like him. on the other hand, you also have five women on this jury. they're not going to like this case. they're going to have the transcript of that access hollywood tape that you can do whatever you want, they will let you do whatever you want. grab them by the -- you know, they are going to have that. i remember a trial where the defendant had an extramarital affair and there were 11 women on the jury and when the evidence came out you could see the look of disgust on those female jurors and that didn't go well for that defendant and i don't think this is going to go well for donald trump. >> one of the things going into this trial, the question of it as a spectacle and my sense is that it is relatively muted down there in the courthouse. this has not been some completely chaotic, frenzied scene then of course today was the most horrific kind of disruption happening.
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>> i've been sharing the seat there with my colleague, andrew rice, and i had just shown up when they were swearing in the jury and soon after they were breaking for lunch and at that time, the news broke about what happened outside, a man seemed to sell some light, but the courthouse is just this really beautiful place. you go there and you can't help but be overwhelmed by the stakes there and all these different facets of humanity coming together. people were getting married on the corner than have something like that happen, and in fairness, there is no indication, i don't think, that this is directly related to anything happening inside. >> i think it was a sort of -- my sense from what we know, opportunistic because he knew there would be a lot of media. >> and different conspiracies from that manifesto as i understand it but the nypd has done a pretty good job so far as starting the arraignment and keeping things control down there so it was pretty jarring
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to see it today, you know, turn into this gruesome scene. >> also, in terms of jurors, i keep finding myself relatedly empathizing with them, just what this would be like, it like a wildly upsetting scene. horrible, but we already heard from jurors about how afraid their names are. you've got to think like this is the last thing you want them encountering. >> so, i think the court and law enforcement security are figuring it out as they go on monday, been in that line to get in. the jurors -- there were like 50 or 60 jurors you could identify who they were because they were all holding their jurors slips, and they were right across the park from loud trump rallies and they are seeing all of this as they are nervously waiting to get inside. i walked in yesterday and i had just come off the elevator and unbeknownst to me i walked into a pool of potential jurors and you know, i had to sit there and wait for them to go through security and not take any photos. they are not sequestered, right?
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>> they are not sequestered but in subsequent days, i didn't see them waiting as long. it seems like they're trying to get the hang of this a little bit. >> all right. it's so great to have you both here. thank you very much. we really appreciate it. we have learned a lot about donald trump's various misdeeds over the years. how much of it could actually be used against him in this trial? today, we are hearing about that question and we'll talk about it next. talk about it next. for 75 years. you're not waiting to win, you're ready to succeed again at umgc.edu. we're here with chris counahan of our local leaffilter. so chris, tell us how leaffilter is different from every other gutter protection on the market. with leaffilters, patented filter technology, there are no gaps, no openings, no place for debris to get in at all. and we install leaffilter on your existing gutters. it's a permanent solution. you'll never have to climb a ladder to clean out your gutters again. that's amazing, chris. tell me about the process. simple and easy. just give us a call,
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know that a jury is seated in donald trump's election interference trial, the court moved on to what is called a sandoval hearing, where prosecutors present the criminal conduct they have not truck charged trump with but would present to impeach his credibility if he chooses to take the stand. today, the judge said he will issue a ruling on monday morning deciding which of that material prosecutors would or would not be able to use. after that, opening statements will begin and they expect to see the first testimony starting sometime next week. ann is a retired prosecutor in the new york d.a.s office. i want to talk about sandoval but before i do, we had you on last week and you have a unique perspective here. you and judge marchand were colleagues. you've been on the bench.
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you run trials before. what do you think about how he has managed this courtroom, just judge to judge? >> so far, he's done an excellent job. he is in complete control of the courtroom and he moved for jury selection with amazing speed yet at the same time, he did not cut corners when it came to being fair. i think the two things that worked in his favor really well were one, only 10 challenges, so that limited the amount of time each party would need but the other is he let jurors self select. he said can you be fair and impartial of people said i can't, for whatever reason or no reason, he let them go out the door. >> just to be clear, that is not how it usually works. you can't just go and be like i don't want to do jury dirty -- duty. >> because you've got to get the trial moving and you have such a limited pool. >> philip, let me ask you as a
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defense attorney to talk about sandoval. when you have a client in your considering whether you want that client to testify in their own defense, what is a sandoval hearing and how does it figure into that calculation? >> the sandoval hearing figures into that calculation because basically it's going to set up a lot of the theory with which you are going to put forth to the jury because to the extent that your client wants to potentially testify, you have to be aware specifically of what they're going to be cross- examined in regard to prior conduct that may or may not be at issue in this case. to the extent that we are dealing with issues regarding e. jean carroll, to the extent we are dealing with issues regarding the case in front of judge ingle right now, you need to know exactly what the prosecution is going to examine your client on because that's going to dictate the
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conversations you have with your client about whether it's going to go on the stand, pitfalls you need to be careful about and also in terms of your entire theory. typically you will have two or three opening statements written depending on what the judge is ultimately going to allow in after the sandoval hearing and if they're going to allow in certain evidence you need to be prepared to address that. the defense is really going to set the path in terms of how the defense and trauma forward. >> they have presented example of things like the e. jean carroll example. i think things having to do with civil fraud, what is the standard for by the judge decides what is the line? >> it's a balancing test. every defendant has a right to testify on his own behalf. but if he chooses to do that the jury has a right to know what that is.
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it's a balancing test. you don't want the jury to convict this defendant so you look for prior bad acts that go to whether a person puts his own interest ahead of society. that's the phrase. >> donald trump? well, i mean just like the person we're describing here like those he put his own interest over the interest of society? >> never thought of it that way. it's a 50-year-old case. we also see the line over and over but what you do is you are looking for crimes that go to theft, fraud, lying. >> as it just crimes? >> it doesn't have to be convictions. it can be bad acts in their life that go to this particular
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issue. >> but i hear the term presidential -- present prejudicial. >> overly prejudicial. the judge needs to balance. the last thing you want is a jury that convicts this person because he's a bad guy so i looked over what the people want to go into on the danger with some of this is that some of it may be considered a little bit too much like what the defendant is charged with in this case and that's another problem. and that's another problem. you don't want the jury to think he has a propensity to do this. >> is a judge you don't want that, you want to be careful not to establish a pattern of bad acts that are not charged. >> let me ask you this though. trump said he's going to testify. that's worth as much as i'm charging you for it. would you advise a child -- client under these conditions
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to take the stand? >> it really depends on how the case is going, chris. if the case is falling apart around me, if the uphill battle is in terms of us trying to surmount, it's going to require a hail mary and that is what this would be then at that point you may consider putting your client on. in this case, these facts, the issue you have with trump and what would give me an anxiety attack thinking about someone like him testifying is that he's not controllable to the extent that he starts going into whatever he wants to discuss or whatever grievances he has, what might happen is that judge merchan may actually preclude the prosecution from being able to go to certain areas but then trump gets on the stand and somehow or another opens the door to then being able to have the prosecution cross-examined him on issues the judge had precluded so it's a very danger zone when you think about clients like trump or very controllable.
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>> that's fascinating. just to play this out, let's say judge merchan says the allegation by e. jean carroll that he sexually assaulted her in a dressing room was found more likely than not by a civil jury in new york. let's say the judge were to say you can't bring that up, okay? it's too prejudicial. if you are on the stand and he just was riffing inside like that e. jean carroll lady like i've never seen her before. as soon as he said that, then you could say something right? >> yes because you feel like the door has been opened but then everybody at the prosecution table would probably jump up and asked to approach and then there would be a sidebar conversation because they would not simply jump in and start asking these questions and then the judge would have to rule whether he has indeed opened the door. >> would you come to anticipate that he would take the stand here?
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>> that's a hard one to tell. he is a wildcard, you know. you don't know what he will do but as the gentleman just said, the problem is, if he is uncontrollable, even if the judge rules that none of this could come and get could all end up coming and if he says the wrong thing. >> right, diane, who has served as a judge in philip, defense attorney, thank you very much. appreciate it. coming up, democrats are forced to bail out the republican speaker again, so why are they the ones actually in charge? that is ahead. harge? that is ahead. that not all dirt is the same. you need dirt with the right kind of nutrients. look at this new soil from miracle-gro. everybody should have it. it worked great for us. this is as good as gold in any garden. if people only knew that it really is about the dirt. you're a dirt nerd. huge dirt nerd. i'm proud of it! [ryan laughs]
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had been expected, israel carried out a strike on hamas in response to last weekend's iranian missile and drone attack against israel, which itself was retaliation for israel's bombing of an iranian embassy compound in syria. the injuries there were limited, which leaves open the possibility these were the last exchanges for this round. this is all been incredibly dangerous for people of iran, israel, for troops in the region in the world as a whole and where it goes next depends largely on the thinking of one man, israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, a man who
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is dominated the nation's political landscape for more than a quarter of a century for political scandals, corruption charges. he has always told israelis they can't quit him because he alone can't -- can protect them as he told them on the eve of an election in 2014. >> translator: i feel the jewish nation is under threat and i am prepared to mitigate that danger. it is what the state of israel expects from me and it is what i will do. >> the theme of his entire political career. you may not like me and my methods, but i will keep you safe, but the facts show the opposite. for decades, netanyahu has made a series of decisions that has led israel to be demonstrably less safe. you can trace this trend back to 2002 when then foreign minister netanyahu came to the u.s. and testified to congress that it was time to invade iraq.
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>> the connection is not whether iraq was connected to december 11th but how do you prevent the next september 11th. it's not a question of whether it should be taken out but when should it be taken out? the first victory in afghanistan makes a second victory in iraq that much easier. a second victory in iraq will make the third victory that much easier, too. if you take out saddam's regime i guarantee you it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region. >> a guarantee. how did that turn out? actual experts of the time predicted correctly that the iraq war would be a catastrophe and would not be an easy victory for the u.s. and crucially, it would be a huge boon for iran, which it was. the shiite majority took the reins of the government and formed close ties with shiite leaders in tehran. iranian militias now operate out of iraq and that tells you
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what netanyahu's guarantees are worth. nonetheless he kept rattling sabers in the region and undermining democratic leadership. in 2015 when the obama administration and alice worked on a breakthrough deal to keep iran from developing a nuclear weapon, netanyahu was so opposed that his government treated its closest ally like an enemy. >> did israel spy on the iran nuclear talks and leak details to select republicans to sink the deal? >> they could very well be listening in on that call. in fact, the officials that i spoke to basically explained it in exactly that way. >> despite those efforts, that deal went through until donald trump scuttled it in 2018 with support from netanyahu. >> israel fully supports president trump's bold decision today to reject the disastrous nuclear deal with the terrorist regime in tehran. israel has opposed the nuclear deal from the start.
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the deal did not push were further away. it brought it closer. >> he can say that but he is wrong. since terminating the deal, iran has accelerated its missile development and has only grown stronger and that is not even close to being the worst security calculation of benjamin netanyahu on his career. for that you have to go back to 2006 when hamas militants objected an israeli soldier and held him in gaza for five brutal years and bringing him home became a rallying cry for many israelis. in 2011, hoping to put off an election that might crashes coalition, netanyahu champion to deal with hamas, a costly prisoner swap to return shalif
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to israel. >> questions about this deal started almost immediately. some in israel say the release came at a very high price. in return, israel promised to release more than 1000 palestinian prisoners, many of them serving time for terrorism and murder. >> imagine for a moment if an american president had cut a deal like that. back in 2014, president obama released five taliban prisoners to get back an american soldier and conservatives here with apoplectic but it was not how many netanyahu agreed to release. one of the prisoners was yahya sinwar, who returned home and became the leader in gaza. he was the mastermind of the october 7th attacks on israel. he came out after the attacks to one that they were quote, just rehearsal. that then was an israeli prisoner released by benjamin netanyahu in 1000 to one prisoner swap, can you even imagine if an american president had released osama bin laden and then bin laden had pulled off 9/11?
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even worse, can you imagine if the u.s. then funded bin laden because as was reported right after october 7th, for years, various governments led by israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu divided power between the gaza strip and the west bank, bringing the palestinian president to his knees for making moves that propped up the hamas terror group, funding them and giving them legitimacy as a counterbalance, a strategic choice by netanyahu, a counterbalance of house authority in the west bank. the idea was to keep palestinians from having a single unified government, one that might try to form estate and challenge israeli authority. his entire political career is based on the idea he alone can protect this nation. all of this stuff talk guarantees about keeping
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israeli safes and the ultimate result was the horror of october 7th. the worst security failure in the states history. benjamin netanyahu oversaw all of that. in fact, we learned from the new york times that israel knew of the hamas attack plan a year ago but israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan is aspirational, considering it too difficult for hamas to carry out. did benjamin netanyahu know? either way it is his failure. it happened under his watch and incredibly and inexplicably, he remains in charge of whatever comes next. save wildlife affected by oil. dawn platinum cleans to the squeak. hi, i'm janice, and i lost 172 pounds on golo. save wildlife affected by oil. when i was a teenager i had some severe trauma in my life and i turned to food for comfort. a friend told me that i was the only one holding me back from being as beautiful on the outside as i am the inside. once i saw golo was working, i felt this rush, i just had to keep going. a lot of people think no pain no gain, but with golo it is so easy. when i look in the mirror, i don't even recognize myself. golo really works. kayak. no way.
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after months of delay and what appears to be a concerted effort by donald trump to work if not in russian president vladimir putin's interest, at least in parallel with them, it finally looks like the desperately needed aid package to ukraine will pass the house. this comes as the besieged countries pushed to the brink by the russian invasion. there are three big reasons this bill is set to come up for a vote. first, that there is an actual majority supporting in both chambers of congress aid to the ukraine. the second is that republican speaker mike johnson appears to have a sincere ideological belief that aid to ukraine is good. it should pass and he is willing to do things to make that happen. the third is that house democrats did something extraordinary late last night. as the democratic members of the very important and powerful house rules committee voted in tandem with republicans to move
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the four foreign aid bills, the ukraine bill among them, to the full house. less than 12 hours later the democratic caucus again helped move the bills along, voting with republicans to set up a floor vote on the bills. as the new york times notes, what happened in the rules committee basically never happens at all. the rule for considering a bill is historically a straight party line vote passed with more democrats than republicans. this essentially formalizes something of a coalition government in the house of representatives. a coalition government born of the fact that republicans have shown that between their slim is already, two or three votes in the marjorie taylor green maga caucus, they are simply incapable, utterly, of governing on their own. that is something california democratic congressman eric swalwell pointed out to me last night. >> we've raised the debt ceiling and provided the majority of the votes to do that. we expelled the fraudster santos, provided the majority of votes to do that and i expect on ukraine, we will
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provide the majority of votes. >> with all that being the case, maybe it would just be better if democrats hold the majority rather than having to deal with all of this. leaving republicans free to safely grandstand and rabble- rouser minority, something they seem to want and be suited for more than anything else. when enamel is gone, you cannot get it back. but you can repair it with pronamel repair. it penetrates deep into the tooth to actively repair acid weakened enamel. i recommend pronamel repair. with new pronamel repair mouthwash you can enhance that repair beyond brushing. they work great together. [stomach growling] it's nothing... sounds like something. ♪when you have nausea, heartburn, indigestion♪ ♪upset stomach, diarrhea♪
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the current defendant trump sitting in that courtroom all day, president biden has been visiting the battleground states he needs to visit before
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november. yesterday it was pittsburgh and a local wawa to get a hoagie. >> under my predecessor, who's busy right now, opinion opinion lost 245,000 jobs. just look at the facts. on my watch, unemployment hasn't been this low for this long in 50 years. >> yes, the republican nominee is busy and during the first of his criminal trials. where the public can stream stuck there getting more and -- can seem stuck there getting more and more frustrated. it's my theory, the more voters hear trump, the less he appeals to them. trump started with a consistent lead, which caused a lot of understandable democratic hand wringing. as you can see that lead has slunk to almost nothing today. of course that's just
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predictive. nobody knows what's going to happen. let me start with this theory, six weeks to two months ago and i think the polling is probably worse for biden. or the worse it had been. that trump being out of public view largely even though he's about to be the nominee was benefiting him and that when he's in public view, people are reminded on why they call him repelling. now you're seeing him a lot. what do you think as a theory of the campaign the last couple of weeks. >> totally agree with you, chris. the more people see him the less they like him and they're reminded on why they just can't
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vote for him again. if you're a donald trump advisor your advise right now is shut up. don't tweet, don't open your mind. right direction, wrong direction numbers commercial but go ahead. nikki haley's argument was i can beat biden, trump can't. biden is out there talking to persuadables. with me we will move the country ahead. that's a persuasion argument. that's trump intensifying all of the reasons people don't like the former president. >> i saw that this news which i
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want to run past you. someone who won the popular vote in florida but did not win. florida of course has a ballot measure on the ballot. who do you think of that florida choice? >> i think it's a very smart choice. listen, this is president biden who has and you know over his political career has kind of shied away from the conversation. we always knew this would be a deciding issue. it is very clear ever since roe was overturned in the dobs
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decision that where democrats win is on the abortion issue. even in the abortion race. florida just put itself back in play when it gave voteers the choice to decide whether or not abortion rights will be the issue they decide on in november. i think it's historic for president buy -- biden to go directly to florida and talk to floaters because they're talking about this restriction as well as giving energy to the organizeers on the ground who need to put that signature on the ballot measure. >> that ballot measure looks like it's going to happen. it was approved by the state supreme court in that same decision that upheld the six week ban. i want to ask david your thoughts on the political
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ramifications of the case itself. i'm persuadeable in any direction. 35% what he did in the case was illegal. 31% said unethical but not illegal. did nothing wrong or don't nope. you also have unwillingness to vote on trump if he's consistent. i don't know if i believe people who say they're unwilling if they're convicted because i suspect some of those republicans are going to find a way to be willing. what do you think the over all political effects of the trial are right now? >> the number one effect that we've been talking about. you have donald trump showing people who he is. donald trump is now -- what does it mean as far as the legal jeopardy. i think the only untested question is what happens if donald trump loses his freedom
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in any of the four cases. that does not appear to be the case in the four cases before the election. it would not be before an appeal is in place or before move. i don't think this has no ramification whatsoever. persuadeable voteers are reminded why they don't like donald trump. >> there's been a debate over messaging for the biden campaign about the economy. i looked at what the president had to say in that pennsylvania trip. they're making a case on the economy. the economy has grown because of the things we did. there's some people who say you can't tell people they have to feel better about the economy when they don't. >> i think it's both. i think people are hearing biden talk about the
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achievements. i've also heard president biden that people are not feel i ng it. he says that it takes a while for policy to feel real. if they're getting this economic message right now able to understand why they possibly won't feel it, i think you also see the biden campaign and democrats talking about republicans in certain states trying to block some of the ways in which they're trying to help the economy. making that connection this early on i think will help out in the fall. >> it is to your point i want to say, it is early. david, that is part of it too. i sort of wonder sometimes because memories are so short.
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you have to keep reminding yourself how nondurable sometimes these views can be in terms of forming voteers opinion. >> what opinions get hardened, and the opinion that will get hardened is it'll be clear that donald trump wakes up every day fighting for his freedom and joe biden wakes up every day fighting for your freedom. that contrast regardless of results. you may not feel it now. what is donald trump going to do in the second term? more chaos like we saw in the first. he kind of has these empty promises when joe biden has shown what can happen when a president works hand on your behalf. >> that is all in on this friday night. alex wagner starts right now. >> that was a great block. you have yourself a great weekend. >> you too. >> over the past four days this week like in many other cities across