did she get to the dentist? was he or she able to fix it? will she be in the jury box tomorrow? >> that's such a great point. they are real people with real lives, setting them aside for they don't know how long, four weeks, six weeks, maybe longer. they saw the concerns that other jurors expressed, and they decided this is important to them and that this system is something that they want to be a part of. >> that says a lot about our system, michael. >> michael beschloss, i wish we had more time. we could talk forever. thank you so much for being with us on this very important day. >> and thanks to you. >> thank you. >> that does it for this hour, chris, and we continue now. you'll be back tomorrow at 1:00. >> we'll be back at our regular hours tomorrow. jose diaz-balart is in for katy tur right now.

good afternoon, so good to be with you. i'm jose diaz-balart in for katy tur. this is just the beginning. it has been a historic day inside the manhattan courthouse. both sides completed their opening statements in donald trump's criminal hush money trial. the prosecution, zeroing in on donald trump's alleged attempts to interfere with the 2016 election saying they have receipts that prove the former president, quote, covered up a criminal experience by lying in his new york business records over and over and over again. now, the defense meanwhile says that former president simply didn't do anything wrong. quote, there's nothing wrong with trying to influence an election, todd blanche told jurors, it's called democracy. we heard from our first witness in the trial. trump's long time friend and former ceo of the "national enquirer," david pecker, a man at the center of the alleged scheme to bury claims from women

who say they had affairs with donald trump. we'll tell you what he said and what his testimony today might prove because remember, while a big part of the defense's job is to poke holes in d.a. alvin bragg's case, lawyers for the state actually have to back up every single thing they're putting before these jurors. so let's break this all down, and we're also going to look into what happens next. joining us now, nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard. good to see you outside that courthouse, where you have been all day now. bring us up to speed on what happened today. >> reporter: it was a shortened day inside of this courtroom, namely because one juror had a dentist appointment, and passover led the courts to determine it was going to have an earlier afternoon. those four hours inside of the courtroom did not lack tension, and what you heard in opening statements from the prosecution was the intent to tell a story, beginning in august of 2015, two months after donald trump

announced his president, which david pecker met at trump tower with michael cohen, and donald trump, to find stories that may come out before the 2016 election, salacious ones like the ones of stormy daniels, purchased the stories and ensured their silence so that they never got to the public before the 2016 election. and then in 2017, that donald trump knowingly was reimbursing michael cohen for that $130,000 payment to stormy daniels. the prosecution made it clear they're going to have a litany of witnesses from stormy daniels to michael cohen himself. david pecker, he took the stand for just over 30 minutes. he is expected on the stand tomorrow. on the other hand, the defense laid it out in a different way. starting out right at the top with the declaration that donald trump committed no crime, and you may hear a salacious story from the likes of michael cohen and stormy daniels who donald trump's defense made clear that

you should question the credibility of. but instead, they focused on what the actual charges against donald trump are. and they were the falsification of business records. and donald trump's attorneys making clear to the jury that donald trump did not commit a crime and this was an issue over a business ledger and donald trump, in fact, as the ledger shows was just paying michael cohen, not to reimburse stormy daniels but for legal services. all of this will lead to tomorrow when david pecker is expected to take a stand again. notably also the gag order hearing tomorrow morning. the prosecution has asked the judge to punish donald trump for violating the gag order. notably when donald trump left the courthouse today, what did he do is this he attacked one of the witnesses, michael cohen. this will come down to the determination of judge merchan over whether donald trump actually violated the gag order and any consequences that may follow. >> vaughn hillyard, thank you so much. joining us now, former assistant

district attorney for the manhattan d.a.'s office and msnbc legal analyst, catherine christian, and legal analyst, danny cevallos. we're going to be talking about david pecker and the other witnesses expected on the case tomorrow. i want to start with the opening remarks today. both by the prosecution and the defense. prosecution about 45 minutes, almost to the exact second, 30 seconds into it. the defense was supposed to do 25 minutes, ended up 35 minutes. there were some interruptions. how did you see both sides today? >> they both did their job. the prosecutor is supposed to be the facts, they gave a complete narrative, chronological. the opening statement for the prosecutor is a detailed preview of the evidence. i call it the table of contents, and they did that. they laid it out. it was very straightforward. not emotional. the lead prosecutor is not an

emotional person. i thought they did their job. the defense i have heard some critique. i thought the defense did their job. if they have nothing to prove, where the prosecutor has to connect the dots, the defense, there's no connecting of dots, this is huey. both sides did their job. the fact that people said there were objections against the defense, that happens. i rarely objected as a prosecutor. i didn't want the jury to think i was trying to hide anything. clearly if it's objectionable, we object. but we shouldn't read into the fact that there was objections during that. >> even though it is relatively rare, right? >> i would say it's not rare. depends on who the defense attorney is. if you've tried a lot of cases, it's not rare. to me it's no big deal. it's something that happens. >> and danny, how did you see both sides? >> i agree. and i predicted that these were

going to be pretty straightforward openings. the prosecution was doing opening statement 101, walking through the facts that they intended to prove. a lot of bad things can happen during opening statements. you have to be careful. you never want to make a promise that you will introduce evidence you end up not producing and if you're on the defense, one of the things you'll never hear is you'll hear from the defendant that because you have no idea if you're going to call the defendant. the defense here does not have the burden. i didn't expect a very long opening statement because whey don't want to make any promises. this seems like a case at the end of the day, they're going to rely heavily on the burden of proof and presumption of innocence. their strategy appears to be call everybody a lying liar, which is an acceptable defense strategy. >> early in the morning, kind of laid out the differences that the jury would be having access to if donald trump testifies.

>> that's called a sandoval hearing, and he gave a very fair ruling. the prosecutor wanted to cross examine him about that he was found liable for sexual assault. the judge said no. can't prosecute him that he was found liable for business records. he can be cross examined about his honest, two times made false statements against e. jean carroll, and that he inflated his assets. the judge basically are allowing them, if trump testifies, the prosecutors to cross examine. things that go to his dishonesty. >> and how unusual is that aspect, not that it was the former president. >> it's unusual that defendants testify, but this is a usual order ruling from a fair judge. >> danny, let's talk evidence. we know the "access hollywood" tape was barred from being played by jurors. the prosecutor quoted trump

today. and referenced one of the 2016 recordings immediate by cohen. let's play some of that. >> i need to open up a company for the transfer of all of that info regarding our friend david so i'm going to do that right way. >> give it to me. >> i've spoken to allen weisselberg about how to set the whole thing up with funding it's all the stuff. because you never know where that company, i'm all over that. i spoke to allen about it. when it comes time for the financing. >> listen, what finance something. >> we'll have to pay -- >> pay with cash. >> no, no, no. >> how important do you think this specific piece of evidence is? >> very important. and like many times when you tape two people, suspects, defendants, who are talking, they often speak in code.

this happens all the time. the code is obviously to pak things harder to understand. if anyone to hear it or be taping it as was this case, but code is not something that's insurmountable. they'll call an agent in federal court and say i'm an expert in code. this is what those mgic words mean. this can be damaging if the people can explain it in a way that the jury can understand what's going on. there's been a whole lot made of the fact that michael cohen is not a credible witness. that may not be as big of a problem for the people if they can corroborate the evidence with documents or someone like david pecker's testimony, who i think might emerge as the real star witness for the people. maybe not so much michael cohen, but david becker. someone outside the system who doesn't have as much baggage as a michael cohen. their stories match up, along

with the documents that match the stories. >> it's not unusual to have recordings, right, especially when you have a criminal case where things could have been budding. you know, but one of the witnesses recorded it on his own, and for his own reasons. that is different and unusual. >> that's different. but as danny said, it happens. particularly if you have a witness is afraid they may be caught one day, and he wants to say this is what happened. you notice in that tape, a good defense attorney can cross examine. cohen says i got this. their whole self-defense lakes by donald trump hands off. this was all michael cohen. that will play into the defense. >> catherine, danny, stay with me. we've got a lot more to learn from you both of you in this hour. up next, what more we could hear from david pecker and why the former "national enquirer" publisher was the first witness on the stand.

what are voters thinking? the impact trump's legal troubles could have on his standing in the polls with the presidential election just around the corner. rising concerns over protests at columbia city. what the city is prepared to do if things continue to escalate. we're back in 90 seconds. o escae we're back in 90 seconds and long-lasting gain scent beads. part of the irresistible scent collection from gain! a test or approve a medication. we didn't have to worry about any of those things thanks to the donations. and our family is forever grateful because it's completely changed our lives. try killing bugs the worry-free way. not the other way. zevo traps use light to attract and trap flying insects with no odor and no mess. they work continuously, so you don't have to. zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly.

back with us is catherine

christian, and critical defense attorney and msnbc legal analyst, danny cevallos. let's talk a little bit about, i don't know, let's play games. when we're talking about the possibility of donald trump testifying, he has said in the past just recently that he wanted to testify and today they talked about that possibility and what that could mean for the case. what's the any positive aspect for trump to testify? >> for centuries now, criminal defense attorneys have always been risk averse, and ordinarily, it is just too risky to put your client on the stand. they never know as much as the prosecutors and there are tons of bad things that can happen. after all, once the jury loses faith in a particular witness including your client, and they don't believe him, then you're pretty much sunk. but i happen to think x i'm sure i'm in the minority, there is a decent chance that donald trump will testify. number one, he believes he is smarter than anyone in the room.

number two, criminal defense attorneys will tell you their clients in white collar cases, i don't know why, but very particular to white collar cases, they believe they have an explanation for everything. they believe the prosecution is a big misunderstanding and if they can just take the stand, they can clear up all of the misunderstanding. it is a dangerous way of thinking, and arguably it's a way of thinking that made them white collar criminal defendants in the first place, so because donald trump has an absolute right to testify and because he may view this as a lost cause anyway, and may use it as a pulpit for a broader audience than the jury, we might see donald trump testify. part of me is doing this because everybody is betting the other way, and i want to make it interesting. >> you really think there's a possibility? >> let's look at high profile cases recently. maybe things are changing. in a lot of high profile cases, criminal defendants are actually take the stand. sometimes they lose, sometimes

they win. sometimes the facts are horrible and it doesn't matter when you take the stand. this is a singular case. donald trump believes he can overcome anything or he may just think he has absolutely nothing to lose. he has the constitutional right to testify no matter what his attorneys tell him not to do. >> this is someone who in the past has said he's the expert on expertise. he, you know, is very conscious of the fact, for him, that he knows more than anybody else. do you think that's a possibility? >> it's a possibility. it will be determined by how well the prosecution's witnesses are. if the cross-examination of michael cohen is a dud, it might be a hail mary. if his lawyers say this is going good for us, why mess it up, so it's going to be determined on how well the prosecutors' witnesses are on the stand.

>> so, what, danny, are you looking for tomorrow with david pecker. it's going to be his first full day of testimony. >> prosecutors often march chronologically through the case, and they are setting the stage. the mere fact that they're calling him first is they think he's a strong witness. they're going to open with a bang and set the stage. act one, you have these alleged coconspirators getting together, and they would catch and kill stories. the prosecution is going to tell a tale. something the jury can digest. david pecker, once he gets into the meat of the testimony is going to start talking about this arrangement. how it worked, what they would do, who you would call and who in the case of stormy daniels, who called who and who talked about what. this is why david pecker may be arguably a more important witness than michael cohen. david pecker may have credibility issues as well, but for all the of the attacking

michael cohen's credibility, david pecker is going to introduce not only the documents but how the documents were generated, how the communications went down, how this entire catch and kill scheme was orchestrated and who was behind it. and by the way, he is and was donald trump's friend. we may hear about conversations that he had with donald trump. the key for the people here is they have to show donald trump's intent. they have the checks. the checks have the signatures on them. they have the documents. they have to defeat the defense's argument, i'm the head of the corporation, i sign the checks. i see no evil, hear no evil. >> that's a good example of what pecker can bring to the conversation as opposed to cohen. >> he was one of the three men in the meeting when the whole scheme, according to prosecutors, were set up. >> catherine christian and danny cevallos, thank you so much. really great seeing you.

i appreciate you. up next, we'll rewind back to 2018, when news first broke of an alleged hush money payment to stormy daniels. what dump said back then and how his lawyers are using a similar defense today. ing a similar defense toy.da with so many choices on booking.com there are so many tina feys i could be. so i hired body doubles to help me out. splurgy tina loves a hotel near rodeo drive. oh tina! wild tina booked a farm stay to ride this horse. glenn close?! with millions of possibilities you can book whoever you want to be. that's my line! booking.com booking.yeah choosing a treatment for your chronic migraine - 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more - can be overwhelming. so, ask your doctor about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start. it's the #1 prescribed branded chronic migraine treatment.

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>> you have to ask michael cohen. >> when the news first broke of an alleged hush money payment made to stormy daniels, donald trump denied knowing anything about it. his lawyers continue to mount that defense today in opening statements saying trump put up a wall between himself and his company. and that this is a book keeping issue, not a criminal matter. prosecutors accused him of rewriting history to win an election. joining us now, "new york times" investigative reporter, david fahrenthold and political white house reporter and coauthor of the "the west wing play book," eli. this is not a hush money payment, in fact, donald trump had a long standing system with cohen to fix public facing problems like stormy daniels could have been. is this case going to come down to proving what trump knew or he says he didn't know?

>> yes. i mean, that's what ties -- that's why donald trump's on trial and not michael cohen. michael cohen is the witness and trump is the defendant. we're going to have to prove or the prosecution is going to have to prove whether trump knew about the payments to stormy daniels, and knew about the coverup, this was being entered into his books in a way that was fraudulent. you described as a legal payment rather than a hush money payment to a porn star. witnesses like david pecker and michael cohen, to connect the activity, the cover up back to trump himself at the top. >> david, trump's attorney said trump put up a wall between himself and his company when he became president. we may see prosecutors try to test that statement. what does the reporting of time tell us about that? >> it's a complex picture. trump theoretically gave up control of his businesses to his

sons, don jr. and eric when he entered the white house. he didn't give up ownership. he was not running the trump organization as actively as he had while he was in the white house. but he still talked to his sons about the business. he still seems to have been consulted about decisions on the business, and in this case, allegedly, was intimately involved in one specific transaction. how to pay michael cohen, pay stormy daniels through michael cohen, and cover it up. i don't think that their argument that there was this ironclad wall between trump and his business during the presidency holds up. certainly wasn't true this a legal sense and a practical sense too. information about the business was kept from them. >> and eli, how does reporting square with what we have learned from cohen, for example, and the story the prosecutor and the defense laid out today. they were different stories. >> well, if you're talking about how this relates back to the election, what we know, and what we knew at the time was that this happened in the context of

a very close race with a month or so to go until election day and polls starting to show the race moving away from trump after the first debate with hillary clinton, and so you can really see in the way the campaign reacted to it that, you know, this was something that they were concerned about. people very close to trump thought the race was over. thought he was going to have to drop out. or sort of politely urged him to drop out. reince priebus, the rnc chair, that basically, you're going to lose by a landslide or you could drop out. trump was forced to go on tape and admit that that was him on the "access hollywood" tape. that's not something he does easily, but you know, he dismissed it as locker room talk but he had to basically grapple with this. they were concerned this was a liability going forward in the election. and you saw a lot of things that took place over the following weeks. his reaction was uneven. there were more women who came forward with similar accusations of sexual harassment whom he attacked on the stage at has

rally. he tried it hard to muddy the waters. he brought women who accused bill clinton of sexual assault into the room at the second presidential debate in st. louis, shocking everyone. but you could see this very intense effort by the campaign to sort of try to mitigate what they saw as a deep liability in the final weeks of the election. >> this was literally the final weeks of the election, some of these conversations were carried out the end of october. eli, trump is clearly involved in his own defense while he has attorneys are trying to paint him as a hands off, frugal businessman, a family man. how does that contradict the narrative of those who maybe know the former president better? >> i just think anybody who's spent time covering the white house when donald trump was president or his organization, you know, they can all tell you, and people who have been on the inside of those -- of the trump corporation or the trump white

house, the trump campaign, they can tell you that not a lot happens with donald trump, knowing about it and signing off on it first. the term audience of one is not about people going on television to speak to president trump knowing he'll be watching. it's the overarching premise for his presidency and public life. everybody that works for him was performing for him or acting on his behalf. doing what he instructed them to do or what he thought he would want them to do. and so, you know, whether the jurors will have all of that context obviously we'll watch the trial and find out. but people who have covered trump extensively, far more extensively than i have even, they know that this is a very difficult think to prove, that donald trump would have been, you know, walled off from something like this happening because it just goes against everything that we know about how he ran his company and how he ran the white house. >> and, david, just your thoughts on the importance of david pecker. based on your reporting, how

much will pecker be able to contribute to the inner workings of the trump campaign, certainly the trump mindset at those just final weeks before the election? >> well, i think two things. pecker certainly establishes for the jurors sort of the things they were doing with stormy daniels was not something they invented, catch and kill, a tabloid would pay for a salacious story and not one it. that is something that had been going on for a long time. they had done it for trump before. certainly was a big part of his business model at the "national enquirer." he'll establish that and lay out for people what the m.o. was and the intention was. that gives you a sense of the cover up that was going on. the other thing that's important is he's not michael cohen. michael cohen will be able to bring the jurors inside the discussions of the trump organization. he has his own credibility problems. he went to jail for lying. i think in this case to have

somebody else corroborate that's not michael cohen builds up cohen's credibility and helps prosecutors point the finger at trump, not relying on this one witness. >> it's important, not a lot of people recognize or know just how prevalent these catch and kill thing is, just the whole example of catch and kill, which is not illegal, but it certainly has been prevalent in so many cases. >> sure, and i think it's of particular interest in the trump case because it was something that he was so involved in and that the tabloids did on his behalf so often, and i think it really contributed to this sense that he has that he could get away with pretty much anything because he had for so long this notion that he could stand in the middle of 5th avenue and shoot someone and still be fine. you know, that came from years of going around new york, doing whatever he sort of wanted to do, and then making sure that just stories sort of went away. the lawsuits, you know, just went away through settlements or

other things, and i think, you know, winning the presidency, ultimately, after this experience, after these harrowing last few weeks of the trump campaign, where they felt like, you know, this was over, for him to win in spite of this, that sent him into the white house with this belief maybe even more ingrained than before, that somehow he was impervious to consequences, that he could do what he talked about doing on the access hollywood tape and other things, and ultimately get off scot-free. >> david fahrenthold and eli, thank you very much. david, i'm glad you're back. i know losing this thing is an issue. i appreciate you doing that as swiftly and effective will as you do. i thank you both for being with us. months away from the presidential election, a big question, will the constant coverage of donald trump's hush money trial change how voters view him as a candidate? plus, what city and state leaders say they're going to do to restore calm as protests at

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37 past the hour. polling suggests that donald trump is as strong a candidate today as he's ever been, despite the legal storm that surrounds him. but he hasn't had this level of media attention in a while. according to the latest "new york times" sienna college poll,

only 26% of registered voters say they were paying a lot of attention to the news about the legal cases against him. so will the wall-to-wall coverage of his first criminal trial and new details we will inevitably learn have any impact on voters or will trump simply try to spin his mandatory attendance as he did today when he left the courthouse. joining us now, "new york times" chief white house correspondent peter baker, and msnbc political analyst. peter, trump has wednesdays and weekends to go on the, you know, political trail. where does this leave his campaign, though, going forward? >> well, look, a traditional candidate might find that a bit of a hindrance, not being able to shake as many hands, kiss as many babies. this is a nontraditional candidate.

the courthouse is a part of his campaign at this point. the campaign is making an argument that he's a victim of a political witch hunt. that's part of his appeal to his base, i'm a victim just like you are. they're coming after me because they're coming after you. grievance and victim hood are central to his argument. while a courthouse is not a traditional campaign stop, he's making it, in fact, integral to his own campaign for another term. >> do you think that, as we go down the line and as we get closer to november and as these cases continue to be a focus of many people's attention, that it could start turning some against the former president, maybe some who haven't made a decision one way or another? >> well, the problem is of course there's no history for us to point to to say ah-ha, this is how it normally happens. we haven't had a president before, much less a presidential

candidate on trial. we were in uncharted territory. on his face, the traditional rules of politics would be, yes, of course this would be damaging. normally swing voters don't say, i didn't vote for the guy last time. now that he's on trial, i should vote for him this time. that wouldn't be the logic you would expect in the political world, but a lot of people thought he would lose traction when he was indicted that. didn't happen, not among republicans anyway. you're right to point out this is a general election, not a republican primary and the people who haven't been willing to go for him up until now are swing voters, middle of the electorate might find this disturbing. a small number say they might back away if he were convicted at one of these trials. that doesn't have to be a lot to change the outcome. we know it's going to be a handful of states that matter, and in some of those states, the votes could come down to several tens of thousands of votes.

a small difference could make a difference. >> peter baker, great seeing you, i appreciate it. >> thank you. joining us former congressman, and msnbc news political analyst, carlos, good to see you, sir. a new nbc news poll shows trump with two points ahead of president biden, essentially, statistically tied. what is significant in the most recent polls is that the president, president biden, has actually been going up. he was down five points in january. now they're essentially statistically tide. -- tied. how do you see this dynamic changing or do you see it changing as the trial continues? >> jose, i think that as donald trump is more in the news and certainly he is, again, dominating the news. that is going to cost him with the swing voters, with the independent voters that peter was talking about. we're transitioning from the

primary process where trump's base was extremely sympathetic to him, where people who were voting in those primaries viewed him as a victim, as someone that the left is persecuting, we're now transitioning to the general election. and the target audience is much different now. it's a very specific number of voters, pragmatic voters, swing voters. voters who may have voted for trump in the past, and then voted against him. they are the ones that are going to decide, and those voters are less tolerant of this kind of chaos, of all of these controversies. they're less prone to think of trump as a victim and more to view him as an agent of chaos. those voters who will decide this election, they're not going to be as sympathetic to the victims argument. that's where they could start hurting trump. >> i agree and also just the fact that, you know, polls are really just snapshots of a moment, a very specific moment

in time, and we have seen in the past, polls haven't been that effective, especially thinking 2016 now. but there does seem to be movement in president biden in the past couple of weeks, right? there has been a positive movement for president biden in the last couple of weeks? >> well, and certainly that matches some of what we have been able to observe. by many accounts, president biden over performed in his state of the union address. since that address, he has been out on the trail more. he has been going on offense. the campaign has been projecting that they're looking to expand the electoral map. i'm not sure that states like florida are going to be in play again, but certainly the biden campaign is trying to project that strength, and we do see that reflected in some of the polls.

of course we know that the economic situation has been improving gradually, that the inflation situation has been improving. so in a way, it does make sense that biden is gaining some ground. another important point in the last nbc news poll is that the more reliable voters, the voters who participate more frequently in elections, president biden has an advantage with those. president trump has an advantage with people who don't participate as often in elections, so that's something that when you're running for office, you always want to have the most reliable voters on your side. >> former congressman carlos curbelo, thank you very much for being with us this afternoon. very much appreciate it. still ahead, protests at columbia university over the war in gaza is raising concerns for the safety of jewish students there. what city and state leaders are now saying they're going to do to get involved. plus. the other trump case the

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49 past the hour. columbia university in new york is holding classes virtually today. this following a wave of palestinian protests on its campus amid the conflict in gaza. there have been protests just

outside of the university as well. these demonstrations have raised concerns over the safety of jewish students, and prompted both state and city authorities to get involved. columbia is not alone. campuses across the country have seen demonstrations, but some of the things that have been said at columbia university and the outskirts, the vile anti-semitism that has been seen in some of them is of concern to many. joining us now nbc news correspondent rehema ellis. what are students there telling you? >> reporter: students here are telling us that they are afraid, they're concerned. particularly i'm talking about the jewish students who feel that in some ways they say they feel they're under attack, that this has gone from being a discussion of a discussion of ideas to an antijewish student versus other students. listen to what one student in particular had to say. >> the moment you realize there's no one protecting you, that nypd can't come on campus, when you're screaming at them

that there are people following us and they shrug their shoulders and then people are coming ought saying we don't want no zionists here. they say they love hamas. they're getting in our face. it's insane. >> reporter: and that is frightening. and it's not just the campus that's behind this metal fence here but there are apartments where columbia students reside. and this particular student was saying, so his question of safety goes beyond those particular walls that are behind that metal fence. it is very difficult for them. and they're really looking for resolution. >> and i know that there have been some lawmakers there today. i understand the president, president biden, just spoke about this. >> reporter: he did. i want to read a little of what em. the president said i condemn the anti-semitic protests and that's

why i've set up a program to deal with that. he went on to say i condemn those who don't understand what's going on with the palestinians. there are some local representatives of congress, from new york and other states, who are also saying they would like to see the president of this university resign. because they have not dealt with it appropriately. one of them, representative esposito, he has said -- deesposito, i'm sorry. he said he's made a proposal for federal funding to be cut off from the university if there's not some resolution. he did not elaborate as to what all that would mean and how would you do it. there's a lot of federal funding for different issues. but as far as this being the polarization of these ideas and how they're being expressed. it is very strong here on this campus. and police are out in full, we should mention to you, as well. >> in new york city, thank you so very much.

well, we've been talking about this for much of the hour. testimony in many ways is just beginning in donald trump's first criminal trial. but another case on thursday, why a conspirator -- a supreme court ruling could play in. a se court ruling could play in what if you could go from this to this. with just one step tresemmé silk serum. time for the ultimate humidity test. weightlessly smooth hair your turn. new tresemmé keratin smooth collection. you know, i spend a lot of time thinking about dirt. at three in the morning. any time of the day. what people don't know is that not all dirt is the same. you need dirt with the right kind of nutrients.

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this thursday the supreme court will hear oral arguments on president trump's claim on immunity. how and when the case is decided may determine whether he faces any federal criminal trials this year. federal gop representative liz cheney writes that the court should reject what she's calling trump's delay tactics and rule swiftly. she writes it cannot be that a president of the united states can attempt to steal an election and seize power but our justice system is incapable of bringing him to trial before the next election four years later. joining us now, senior writer

for slate. how do you think trump's lawyers will be laying out their arguments on thursday? >> well, trump's lawyers will try as hard as possible to claim his interference with the 2020 election was all done under his presidential duties. but he was simply acting as the head of the executive branch trying to ensure there was no voter fraud or any funny business. that all of his actions up to and including allegedly fomenting an insurrection on january 6th, that those were all within what the lawyers say the outer perimeter of his executive responsibilities. and they will claim that because all of these were presidential acts, he is forever immune from any kind of prosecution on the basis of those acts. >> so the ethos of those arguments really boil down to, there is nothing a president can or cannot do that can affect him. >> that's exactly right. during oral arguments at the

d.c. circuit, one judge asked what if a president ordered s.e.a.l. team 6 to assassinate his rival. could that be punished and trump's lawyers' answer was no, it cannot be. a president must be allowed to do anything he wants while in office to ensure that he can exercise the full scope of the executive power. i think the supreme court is going to reject that extremely broad interpretation of the constitution. i think there's a chance it might take a narrower view that allows this prosecution to move forward. but at the end of the day, what is most important is that it rule quickly. otherwise, time is really running out for him to face a trial on any 2020 charges before november. >> the supreme court has shown that they can rule in fact quickly when it is a case of public importance. what legal fallout could the court face if it doesn't get to trial before november? >> well, i think the public will see and understand that the court dragging its feet means effectively ruling for trump

without saying so. if the court does not issue a decision quickly, it will be granted functioning immunity to donald trump. they will do exactly what liz cheney warned against in that terrific op-ed, permit a defendant with a lot of power and money to manipulate the justice system to ensure he never sees accountability. when donald trump was kicked off the ballot in colorado, the supreme court only needed one month to issue a unanimous decision reversing and allowing him to appear. if the court takes more than a month for this case, then i think we'll know there's a double standard going on. >> great seeing you. i thank you and i thank you for the privilege of your time. that wraps up the hour for me. "deadline white house" starts right now. hi, everyone. welcome to monday. it's 4:00 in new york. the case is about criminal conspiracy. that's how the prosecution presented its case in the fir