daniels is talking about and heard about it for years. six months to an election these are things people are processing. hopefully you expect would be a polling that demonstrate what is happening in the world matters but we haven't seen a lot. this has been a remarkably steady race. if he goes through this entire trial and joe biden stays above the fray and no meaningful removement, i don't know you can say it has any impact at all when it comes six months from now. >> you're clear. not that many polls since the trial started and we will be looking for that. great analysis. thank you, brendan. thanks to all of you getting you "way too early" on this wednesday. "morning joe" starts right now. >> saying his lawyers had no time to prepare. no one could predict stormy

daniels trial would involve stormy daniels. >> donald trump was in court yesterday face-to-face with stormy daniels for the first time in years. forced to listen to her account of an affair she says they had back in 2006. we are going to go through her testimony and get expert legal analysis on this trial, as well as a major development in the classified documents case. also ahead, we will play for you part of president biden's speech yesterday at a holocaust remembrance ceremony where he condemned the rise in anti-semitism and violent protests over the war in gaza. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." >> good morning. i interrupted you before you got to the date. >> it's all right. >> this will get the emails flooding in. i'm sorry, sweetie.

you forgive me? you forgive me? >> yeah. don't -- yeah. this week. go ahead. okay. >> good, good, good. >> willie. willie! on a serious note. it was so great. you know? a picture can paint a thousand words. it was so great for the world to see the american president and the american sperp of the house next to each other for holocaust remembrance day and if anybody out there, if anybody in america or anybody across the world thought that there was an inch between those two gentlemen, those two leaders, the two of the most powerful leaders in the world on the issue of anti-semitism or whether american was going to back down in our defense of jews, that

picture eliminates any hope for racist or bigots in america and across the world. i thought it was a beautiful picture and it's one more example in recent weeks of joe biden and speaker mike johnson being able to work together for all of the right reasons. >> it has been a turn, hasn't it, the last couple of weeks? beginning with the ukraine aid that speaker johnson finally was able to push over the finish line with some nudging and some help from the white house but that was a very striking image of bipartisan image yesterday and it has to be said an incredibly powerful direct speech from the president of the united states about anti-semitism in this country and campus protests and making the point there is no daylight between us and israeli. this is our strong ally. we support israeli he said even when we disagree. it's okay to disagree on policy. it's okay to disagree at times about israeli's prosecution of the world but we will defend israeli and we will not tolerate

anti-semitism here at home. a strong moment, especially when contrasted with where his opponent was yesterday. >> yeah. and that is our top story. stormy daniels scheduled to return to the witness stand tomorrow in the donald trump criminal trial. the adult film actress testified under oath yesterday about the sexual encounter she had with trump in 2006 and 130,000 deal was that struck. daniels described how she first met trump at a 2006 celebrity golf event in lake tahoe and later met him in his penthouse where trump discussed putting her on his reality show, "the apprentice." she said the two had sex sharing graphic details about the

encounter. trump attorney moved for a mistrial saying daniels' testimony about the alleged encounter was, quote, unduly and inappropriately prejudicial and full of information that the defense deemed irrelevant. the judge shot down the request but acknowledged there were, quote, things that would have been better left unsaid. and that he would strike some of daniels' testimony from the record. the judge added he was, quote, surprised there were not more objections from the defense. when asked -- >> exactly. i want to say, mika, exactly. you don't call for a mistrial after you're sitting there. maybe he was half asleep with donald trump, while she is giving this testimony that, i don't know that you would call it graphic. but -- >> very personal. >> it went in to very personal details. as the judge said, it would have been better if nobody had heard inside that courtroom but when

somebody goes there, the judge stands up and -- or the defense stands up and they object. so that would have stopped the testimony. the defense didn't stand up and object along the way because the judge clearly thought -- at one point told stormy daniels, hey. too much information, okay? you just give us a general outline. we don't care what you two did. like -- did you, again, the judge is exactly right. if the defense had a problem with it coming in, that is when you stand up and you object. >> well, that is a really valuable point. i think there is also a discussion and a debate here we are going to have our experts talking about about this. whether the prosecution overreached a little bit and might it be too much for the jury, c'mon, man. i don't want to repeat it. we heard. you can look it up. but some of this stuff was graphic and kind of disturbing, actually.

but, at the same time, you could argue that she is -- i guess the prosecution has to prove that there was something that happened that he was paying for to cover up. i don't know. when asked if trump ever told daniels to keep things between them confidential in the aftermath of the encounter, she said, quote, absolutely not. but once the "access hollywood" tape went problem in october of 2016, daniel said trump's lawyer michael cohen wanted to buy her silence. during cross-examination, the defense tried to paint daniels as a liar and extortionist but daniels said her motivation was not money and that she just wanted to get her story out publicly. she also acknowledged that she hates trump. speaker of experts, lisa rubin

and danny savalas is with us and jonathan lemaire host of "way too early." lisa, how do we put into words what went down yesterday at trial? and where do you think the prosecution landed with their questioning of stormy daniels? was it effective? or was there some perhaps overzealousness there? >> i have a slightly different take on all of this than i think some folks do. i didn't think that the testimony was graphic at all. i actually thought that while she provided lots of details that were extraneous in the judge's mind at times or in team trump's mind they were the things like the color of the tile on the floor of his penthouse or his toiletries kit in the bathroom had old spice in it. what came to when it transpired between them, she was fairly sir

-- things were said that were better left unsaid. a lot of that had to do with her own state of mind and what she was experiencing at the time. and in terms of prosecution, they don't necessarily need the sir to think that she is credible, but what they want is the jury to understand what the impact of her story would have been had michael cohen never, in the final days of the campaign, rushed to reach a settlement with her. in other words, in a but for universe and keith davidson to represent her and get to what was signed and paid in the last days of october, what would have happened? what would the impact have been on the campaign? a campaign that was already reeling from the "access hollywood" allegations and the things that followed in those ensuing days, including a number

of other women, beyond karen mcdougal and stormy dams coming "the new york times" on october 10th saying they were sexually assaulted by donald trump. that is what they want the jury to hear what would that have sounded like and can you understand then why donald trump and michael cohen were ultimately motivated to want her to say nothing, given what that story would have sounded like? >> yeah. and i think i'm with lisa here, willie, that it wasn't graphic sexual testimony. you will hear more graphic offensive statements in the first 15 seconds of the tom brady roast on netflix than you heard in the stormy daniels testimony. >> that was something. >> wow! >> it was more just disturbing. >> kaboom!

woo! we will talk about that at some other point, willie. >> two words. >> oh, my god! >> she's incredible. she's incredible. >> wow. yeah. that's what he said. so any way. willie, it wasn't graphic sexually. there were parts you read. you go, ew! what is melania thinking about it or what is ivanka thinking? there were things she got into his personal life and was talking about about, you know, things that i'm sure made him extremely uncomfortable on a personal level but they -- she did not get into any really graphic detail other than maybe one time. she just -- you know i'm even going to say it. this is a kids' show as everybody knows so i'm not saying it. she described one thing but even

that was pretty generalized. i do wonder why the defense didn't object to it. regardless, i don't think the prosecution hurt its case. they laid out -- she laid out what happened and the cross had their point back. but, again, it's for people watching this. it wasn't any graphic description of sex, it was just things that i think made us all uncomfortable for trump's family. >> yeah. i think maybe more cringy than graphic, perhaps. >> yeah. cringy. yeah. >> she said some of the things about melania and ivanka that people can read comparisons that he made. danny, i guess the question is the defense did not object but their general objection to stormy daniels as witness, what does this have to do with a case that the prosecution alleges about paper work? what do you say to that as we

listen to stormy daniels' testimony yesterday? >> years ago and if it goes up to the appellate division and overturned, to me stormy daniels' testimony stands occupy as the main issue they may have on appeal. they asked for a mistrial and the judge saying some of this stuff, maybe some of it shouldn't have come in. i'm obviously paraphrasing. if you're a defense attorney you mark your notebook and have your first major issue. years from now when we are talking about balancing the risk versus the benefit of putting stormy daniels on the stand, was this worth it? consider this. i think the prosecution could have gotten for, in not all of the evidence they needed from stormy daniels from other witnesses. and i think they have already done that. the transaction from michael cohen to stormy daniels, is there any doubt at this point that they have proven that element beyond a reasonable doubt? somebody paid stormy daniels. it seems to be michael cohen. nobody seems to really dispute

that at this point. so the next thing you have stormy daniels on for is to describe the increasing market value of her story as the election approached. that is helpful. but we already got a lot of that from hope hicks. with every witness the prosecution decides to put on they have to do a risk benefit analysis. what is the risk of putting this witness on the stand versus the benefit? what do we get from her? and at the end of the day, yes, they got some good stuff and they got some really good stuff because in my view and maybe i'm a defense attorney, maybe a grain of salt to be taken with this, they essentially got in character evidence about how slimy donald trump is. who can unring the bell in their mind of donald trump waiting until she comes out of the bathroom and plopping on the bed in his boxers? who can get the image of him answering the door in his satin jam-jams out of their mind? they can't do that. this was very effective. but as we just learned in the harvey weinstein case, if you're

the prosecution and you push the envelope with the evidence -- this evidence is devastating. we are all talking about it. we can have a dispute it wasn't really that salacious. was it really that sexy? doesn't matter. the jury heard it. they can't unhear it even if the judge strikes the testimony. striking the testimony is often a hollow victory, a hollow benefit after the testimony has already come out. i mean, look. was stormy daniels a wise witness? yes in the sense that she put in all of this great evidence for the prosecution but it's evidence that has nothing to do with the elements they have to prove. this is not a sexual assault case and business documents and concealment of some other crime. so on appeal, in my view, you have your first major issue for appeal. so two years from now if we are back here saying the conviction got overturned, this is terrible. this might be what we look at and we can say the prosecution took a calculated risk and it's yielded benefits in the last 24 hours. but maybe in a couple of years,

those benefits will not have been worth it. >> that is basically, as you know, lisa, the argument the defense made this system yesterday from stormy daniels was designed to humiliate donald trump in a public setting and they say has nothing to do with what is being charged here. what do you say to that? >> in a technical level, i understand what they are saying. but on another level, it has everything to do with what is being charged here. the jury has to find an relative absence of directly evidence that donald trump had knowledge of and intent to falsify business records that he, nonetheless was motivated to do it and there is a ton of circumstantial evidence but michael cohen will be the only person who gets on the stands and directly ties donald trump to that knowledge and intent. so what do they have to do? they have to work backwards to convince the jury donald trump had every motive and incentive, not only to do the deal, but to cover it up. how do you convince the jury that he had every motivate and incentive? you hear forgive the pun

straight from the horse's mouth what that interaction looked like. for her, this was a traumatic incident. it recast donald trump from sort of the womanizer that we understood this episode to be about, to the predator that the "access hollywood" tape made him out to be. it completely reinforces a frame of him that was existing in the political dialogue at the time and makes all of the more credible why donald trump and michael cohen and all of their underlinks would work so hard to conceal the true nature of the payment, disguise it in instead as legal services, and invoices pursuant to a retainer agreement, something that in dry testimony the day before yesterday, the witnesses described in excruciating detail for the jury. >> danny, let me push back a little bit and get some insight from you here. first of all, if the defense is letting it come in and they are not objecting and the judge isn't overturning the objection,

it seems to me that would hurt on appeal. but i think the bigger issue here is that this testimony, although really embarrassing to donald trump, was relevant and it was relevant because it was embarrassing to donald trump. donald trump -- again, i don't want to repeat it here -- but donald trump doesn't want voters, let alone his wife, to hear what he said to stormy daniels about the status of their relationship. he doesn't want what donald trump said making comparisons there. it seems to me that really goes to the heart. as mika and willie said, this is sort of cringe worthy.

it's not rated "r" testimony, but it's all very cringe worthy, but if you're running for president of the united states, you don't want those things to come out a couple of days before the election. so doesn't the very nature of that, what makes it so cringy, what makes it almost over the top, doesn't that really go to donald trump's intent? of course, any presidential candidate would want to stop this information about the status of his marriage, about an affair with a porn star, about what he said about his daughter, any presidential candidate would not want those words out, would they? >> joe, we are in heated agreement. you're right. i mean, you do not -- all of that evidence that came in was helpful. but the question becomes, if you're a prosecutor and you're building your case and you're making a risk reward balancing analysis as to every witness, you have to decide can i get this information from somewhere else with less risk? that why you see people like a banker called. a third-party who doesn't have

any skin in the game who will give you an objective analysis of a transaction and that is why you call a keith davidson and a hope hicks. we heard from hope hicks who was a very they believe witness that it was chaos in the white house that everybody was worried about how this store and the mcdougal stories and everything else would hurt the campaign. >> what part of the testimony would you pull out and take up on appeal? what do you think is the defense's strongest case. >> sure. >> specifically, in reversible appeal that it was overly prejudicial and wasn't worth the probative value? >> sure. i think stormy daniels' testimony could have been accomplished with three words in the sense that we had sex. everything else was probably unnecessary. and then to me testimony like saying, well, he was a lot physically larger than me and i wasn't intimidated but it's out

there. he was bigger than me. he was blocking the door. goes back to the issue this is not a sex assault case and the defense will argue, right or wrong, this is what they will argue on appeal that that kind of testimony turned this into a quasi sex assault case and painted the defendant in a necessarily bad light in a way you can't unring the bell. my point is, yes, it was really helpful that stormy daniels described an environment where her story had all of this value because it was close to the campaign. even testimony by the was he where if donald trump doesn't seem concerned about melania finding out. that was good. they elicited that in a very clever way. all of the evidence about the transaction between stormy daniels and the underlying incident the fact they had sex and she got up there and said they had sex was all relevant. you ask the question can you get this information from a less risky witness? we are only halfway through cross-examination and it could get worse and maybe she will

survive and be fine but stormy daniels is one of those witnesses that tends to is not just answer the question but add her own editorial and a that is a dangerous thing. i promise you the prosecution is sitting at their desk saying please, just answer the question. please, just the question. no editorializing. >> sounds like you've done that before! >> so many times, joe. i cannot tell you! so many times. >> we get a day off today. testimony and cross-examination resumes tomorrow. lisa, you are our eyes and ears down at the courthouse. you were there again yesterday. just atmospherics of what it was like to be there when stormy daniels walks in the courtroom and sits down across from donald trump and now connected to publicly almost a decade. >> i think part of it, the shock of seeing stormy daniels. she doesn't look like any more like in the public imagination. in our heads she is frozen in time in that picture in 2006 taking up the golf tournament. a picture the prosecution used

to create effect yesterday but not the stormy daniels who walked in court. yesterday she looked between a cross between a suburban man cure it's and a librarian. she was wearing her glasses. her hair was piled on top of her head in a haphazard way. the beauty is still there bull the glamour is gone. she by no means looked like an adult film star. yet, the prosecution worked very hard at the beginning of her system to sort of ground her as a person of considerable intellect and ambition before she became an exotic dancer and that speaks to the world we live in, not the world we wish we lived in. they knew once she sat down in that chair and announced what she did for a living there would be some cultural biases she was working against and, therefore, it was important to them to counter those by saying, stormy daniels is a person with a full scholarship to texas a&m university and stayed home for

incidental experiences and started dancing exotically and then she was off on a very different career path but the intellect is there and cure curiousity is there and she wants to tell her story and live her truth. doing that in the confines of a court proceeding as danny noted falsification of business records, that's a challenge. >> it will continue today and we will be following it all day live. we will return to this topic but we have other -- thank you. alex reminds me court is not in session today. she will be back on the stand tomorrow. the other big story that broke yesterday in florida former president trump's classified documents trial has been postponed indefinitely. the trial had been scheduled to start later this month but u.s. district judge cannon announced the delay and new order yesterday. the judge argues it would be imprudent to finalize a trial

date when various pretrial issues and deadlines have yet to be resolved. trump is charged with mishandling classified records and obstructing the government's attempt to retrieve them and he denied any wrongdoing. special counsel jack smith and his team have argued trump's lawyers have had ample time to prepare for a trial and, joe, this is one of those situations where a lot of legal experts have been saying that this is the most clear-cut case. maybe even one of the most serious cases. >> right. >> and, yet, this is the judge that was picked and this is the way things go. >> welcome to the american judicial system. you know? >> that is correct. >> it's very interesting. jonathan, early on, i had judges and lawyers always tell me you

know what? most of the time things go the way they should go, but you know what? you'll -- 20% of the time, you will win cases that you have no right to win and 20% of the time, a jury will come back and be assured that you will lose 20% of cases that you should have never lost. there is just checks and balances and -- but in this case, in this case, it's exposed to the world that, right now, we are trying what many experts consider to be the weakest case and what many people like myself, and i've said this before, we are in a case that i don't think for a variety of reasons should have ever been brought. but we are there. and they are trying it. then you have the case that most legal experts say is, like, it's, like, the strongest case.

i mean, this guy stole nuclear secrets. this guy stole war plans out of a government building on secret war plans on what we would do in invaing iran. this guy sold sensitive secrets that other countries would pay tens of millions of dollars for, probably even more. stole them, lied to the fbi, lied to the justice department, had his lawyers lie to the fbi, lied to the justice department. and then tried to get, according to testimony, his i.t. director to destroy the cameras, destroy the evidence when he wouldn't do it and then allegedly we are hearing he tried to flood the rooms and talk to the maintenance guy who also said, i'm not going to do that. so you have -- you have the most important case of all the cases

brought against trump and it's with a judge who is going to make sure it never sees the light of day. i mean, it's just -- ain't that america for you and me? >> yeah. >> it's uneven. but, again, i have faith in the judicial system that the end of the day, everything does balance out so i'm not here, like, you know, like, you know, trashing the american judicial system. sometimes stuff just happens and here we have just a great irony where we are living through a case that a lot of people don't think should have ever been brought and we are never going to hear a case that is actually central to donald trump's crimes. i perceive to be his greatest times and she is just bearing it. >> yeah. your faith in the legal system goes up another phenomenon we had to live the last ten years that donald trump always gets away with it and what so many democrats and other americans have been saying for such a long time, including yesterday.

this really in some ways is not a surprise. donald trump, one person said to me yesterday won this case the moment that judge was assigned to it and she was his appointee and she has done everything to slow this thing down to bring it to a halt. reporters were assigned to that case and posting on twitter, x, in recent days this trial is supposed to start in two weeks and there is, obviously, no sign it's going to. she didn't just postpone it but did so indefinitely. let's remember if donald trump were to win election this november, he would control the justice department federal case. he could make that he could instruct his attorney general to make this go away so maybe this will never, ever see the light of day. lisa rube inn let's get your analysis here. do you have any sense, even worth taking a haphazard guess as to when this trial will begin? is there any chance it could happen before the election?

lastly, any recourse here for jack smith? >> let's start with can this case be tried before the election. i think that ship has long since sailed. yesterday was no surprise and can't underscore how little of a surprise it was. it was more surprising that stormy daniels got on the stand and said she had sex with donald trump than cannon postponed the trial day and a number of motion yesterday to be scheduled under the procedures act and a number of of pending motions it that have been fully briefed for months now so which she has made no decision. i wouldn't venture a guess at when this case would be ready for trial' i believe that is by design. i continue to be disappointed by judge cannon and her execution of the role of federal jurist here. >> just to make a point here that is sort of in the background. lisa rubin says i continue to be disappointed in this judge.

we look at some of these decisions and they seem basic. what you don't see here on this broadcast is conspiracy theories that trump is pulling the strings, based on no facts. you don't see here hair on fire. this is the way it went and because of, as you pointed out, the justice system, it's not perfect, but this is the judge we got. >> this is a judge we got and guess what. nobody is alleging that the clerk of courts and in the southern district did anything wrong, you know? you draw a judge and that is the judge that comes up and her number came up and, you know, sometime you've seen in stories, oh, you got the hanging judge or you got -- it's what happens. unless somebody has information that the southern district, you know, clerk of court wanted to risk their career and their freedom by rigging this process, which i'm sure they did not, this is a judge we got.

that did not happen. i'm saying this just happens sometimes and this judge we got -- i do want to i is a, willie, though, just for follow up on what jonathan lemire is talking about about the mistakes she made. that is not center left or right wing point of view. the 11th circuit, they exscoreiated her on appeal and just hmiliaing her and i thought she would be a bit more careful and play more down the center and play more by the rules than she has. but she has not. you look what she is talking about regarding jury instructions. it's crazy!

it's crazy! a 12-year-old that went with her mother to take a kid to court day like as a lawyer would have come up with a better ruling than she has come up with. it's bizarre and i am sure that if that is appealed, now that there is time the 11th circuit will excoriate again. she must not think the world thinks of her. she is looking like everything she is doing, she is doing to help donald trump. >> yeah. totally unaffected by that admonishment you described from the 11th circuit. as lisa said we are talking about classified documents to be gone through here. she set the earliest pretrial

hearing that is late july. what do you see this headed from her? her order sets out different dates and there are justifications. the thing that strikes me normally when you're in federal court, federal court is where your cases move really quickly. just in my experience, just my experience, normally, the judge always has a trial date set and they leave it sort to the litigants and it's always a trial date that is way sooner for the comfort of all the litigants and they leave that burden on the parties to figure out if you want to make a joint application to move the date, you go ahead but i'm setting this trial date. maybe i'll move it two weeks out. that has been my experience in federal court. to not have a trial date at all i think is a little unusual. this order can be criticized. there are justifications in if because of the different motions that are pending and you have these complex issues but jack smith has argued in court these issues are not so complex that they require and inordinate day

delay. he said as much that these documents can be managed. yes, different tiers of classification but this is something that can be managed. the challenge is for jack smith to really earn a lot of comebacks from this not in the way of appeal and a lot of talk of trying to make a recuse yourself. they are not there yet and like another litigant who feels the judge is against them which is normally the defense side if i can just say, maybe i'm editorializing here. i feel like jack smith. maybe you're assigned a judge that isn't deciding with you in any way. >> is it slow walking? >> i think she is but i think reporting from david ladd that this is is a judge overwhelmed and second-guessing herself at every corner and she seems to be overwhelmed with anxiety about the import of the case. so a combination of insecurity in your own decisions, the gravity of the case before you, and maybe also some inclination

to slow walk where you don't have trust in yourself. that is a toxic brew. we are all drinking it right now. >> we are watching it play out. lisa rubin and danny cevalos, thank you so much and digging through a lot morning and thank you very much. we are lucky to have you. president biden addresses the issue of antisemitism at a holocaust remembrance ceremony. we will have his remarks when we come back. e ceremony we will have his remarks when we come back. with liberty mutual! (inaudible sounds) (elevator doors opening) wait, there's an elevator? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, ♪ ♪ liberty. ♪ right now you can get a free footlong at subway.

just buy any footlong in the app and get one free. just scan the qr code and enter promo code flbogo it only works from the other side of the screen, buddy. you still got a land line in your house. order now in the subway app. at bombas, we're obsessed with socks. tees. and underwear. because your basic things should be your best things. one purchased equals one donated. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order. a cloudy day in washington, d.c., 37 past the hour. the white house is remaining optimistic. a cease-fire deal with be reached between israeli and hamas. negotiations resumed yesterday in cairo. national security council spokesman john kirby believes the two sides should be able to close the remaining gaps.

the biggest sticking point is whether israeli will end the war. under the current proposal, the second phase calls for a, quote, sustainable calm. hamas interprets that as israeli withdrawing its troops. israeli, however, says each phase of the cease-fire is temporary and that the idf will continue its mission of dismantling hamas. meanwhile, the u.s. has paused shipments of thousands of weapons to israeli. the white house made the decision last week over concerns the weapons would be used in rafah as southern gaza city where more than 1 million people have sought refuge. among the weapons is not shipped are 2,000 pound bombs. a senior administration official tells nbc news they are focused on ending the use of these bombs and the impact they have on dense urban areas. president biden condemned a rise in anti-semitism during a speech yesterday at a holocaust remembrance ceremony.

the president drew a parallel to the holocaust and october 7th attacks by hamas which he says was by a desire to wipe out the jewish people. he also addressed the protests across college campuses over the war in gaza. >> this hatred of jews didn't begin with the holocaust and didn't end with the holocaust either. or even after our victory in world war ii. this hatred continues to lie deep in the hearts of too many people in the world. and it requires our continued vigilance and outspokenness. now, here we are. not 75 years later, but just 7 1/2 months later and people are already forgetting.

they are already forgetting that hamas unleashed this terror. it was hamas that brutalized the israelis. it was hamas who took and continues to hold hostages. i have not forgotten, nor have you, and we will not forget. in america, we respect and protect the fundamental right to free speech, to debate and disagree, to protest peacefully, and make our voices heard. i understand. that is america. but there is no place on any campus in america, anyplace in america for anti-semitism or hate speech or threats of violence of any kind. whether against jews or anyone else, destroying property is not a peaceful protest. it's against the law. and we are not a lawless country. we are a civil society.

we uphold the rule of law and no one should have to hide or be brave just to be themselves! >> amen. too many stories. i know too many stories of too many jewish students who have been afraid to walk across their own campuses and go to classes, whose parents have called them home because it wasn't safe to walk across those campuses. so great to hear the president's words. so great to see speaker mike johnson there sitting with him. let's bring in the ceo of anti-defamation league jonathan greenblad. before i get to this editorial. evan, 304 days since vladimir putin seized evan and holding him for committing absolutely no crime at all.

maybe marjorie taylor greene might want to think about that before she tries to do vladimir putin bidding again as well as the other republicans of the back bench who keep trying to do that. i want to read to you part of this editorial from "the wall street journal." the president was right to recognize that, ferocious surge and anti-tem semitism in america and around the world and the condemnation on campus is important. violent attacks and destroying property is not peaceful protests. he added it is against the law. he is right. and he should name names. national students for justice in palestine sjp whose campus chapterers led the encampments called october 7th, quote, a historic win for the palestinian resistance. that is the worst slaughter of jews since the holocaust that

sjp were calling a historic win. columbia's sjp declared, quote, full solidarity with the palestinian resistance on october 9th praising the, quote, historic attack, despite the odds. you know, jonathan, i'm so glad "the wall street journal" editorial page brought that up because it's something i was just -- i just keep thinking about is debates about these protests go on. these groups that were running these protests, they are claiming they are running it because of the people of gaza. no, they were praising the slaughter of jews. they were praising the raping of jews. they were praising women being torn from their homes, daughters being raped repeatedly to -- raped to death! and then paraded around like animals around gaza, while people cheered. they were calling -- i'm sorry. i got to keep going! little babies being shot in

their cribs, in their bassinnets. these groups were calling that a historic win for the palestinian people. they were calling children being forced to watch their parents being shot point blank range and children, and parents being forced watching their organ children being slaughtered before their eyes. these groups that organized and ran the college campuses at columbia faculty members saluted, they were calling that a historic win right after the slaughter. so they can say it was about bombing in gaza. no. it was about exactly what they say it's about, right? when people say who they are, you believe them? it was about -- >> yep. >> -- genocide against the jews from the river to the sea wiping israeli off the face of the earth. >> yeah. look. students for justice in palestine, joe, it's about the

farthest thing you can imagine from the greensboro or from the protesters of the '60s. as you said, this is a group of people who applaud slaughter and i should say at -- we track extremist organizations like sjp. on october 8th, while we were still trying to figure out what had happened on the morning of 10/7 and still trying to understand who was alive and who was dead. sjp released organizing tool kits and discussion guides and action plans on october the 8th, long before the idf went in to rafa and long before the idf went into gaza. this is a group who doesn't want a two-state solution. they want to globalize the place where the jewish people appropriately here are the mass murder of jews everywhere. we come back to the president's

speech, right? what he did yesterday in this moment of unprecedented anti-semitism was giving unprecedented statement of solidarity and support. i've never heard a president give a speech like this before and i worked in the west wing. i've worked in a couple of white houses. i know what it takes to put something like this together. he was clear. he was crisp. and he drew that line as he said from the -- to hamas. that was important because i'm here in philadelphia today, joe. i was at penn last night sitting with students and faculty members at the university of pennsylvania, as i've done at harvard and usc and columbia and other places, and these students, they are desperate, they are exhausted, and they are angry because they don't feel protected and supported. president biden said, i see you. i have an ironclad commitment. and i think that they and the

country needed to hear that yesterday. >> willie, i always talk about how important it is for presidents to go to hurricane zones, when people have just been through a hurricane and their entire lives have been wiped out. a president being there -- i've seen it first-hand -- bill clinton wasn't particularly popular in my district but when he came after hurricanes, man, it meant something to those people. they are like, president of the united states is here with us and he cares. those kids -- i call them kids because i've got kids in college and when i do it, i hope people understand it's a term of endearment and my heart hurts for them. because i know they are young and it's just horrible. they have been chased across campuses. their parents have called them home. i know specifically of so many instances on certain days where they hid in their dorm rooms and

were afraid to go to class. of course, columbia, of course, had remote classes at the end because they couldn't protect their jewish students. how important -- i know how important it is that the president of the united states stood up and said, i'm with you. this is unacceptable what has happened to you. and, willie, i'm so glad to hear from jonathan that this was the first of its kind in a speech just powerfully supporting the jews and striking out against anti-semitism wherever it may be. >> yeah. a lot of jewish students as you both have said who don't feel safe and also don't feel seen. as jonathan, you put it a minute ago, president biden said yesterday, we see you. even if your school presidents or your administrations don't see you, even if they are cancelling your graduations and putting your classes on zoom and negotiating with people who are calling for from the require to the sea and giving them a fair hearing when they are not

protecting you was a big moment. i'm curious what you thought about the bipartisan nature of the event we were talking about about of striking picture of speaker johnson and congressman scalise was there and what does that image mean to the country and to the world? >> i think that image, willie, means everything. look. whether you're a republican or a democrat, standing up to hate shouldn't be hard. and to see speaker johnson, doesn't agree with the president on much and to see minority leaders jeffries and all standing together and clapping together. think of the state of the union where you stand up and clap for your party affiliation. yesterday, we were reminded we are all americans area we are all opposed to intolerance. it's interesting the point about are these kids, i mean, again, i sat with penn law school students yesterday who are going

to clerk for federal judges. these are not young people like we think about them. these are sophisticated measured individuals. by the way, there were faculty members there. one professor, she said in this round table, the environment here is hellacious. we need your help. i mean, to hear a 20-year member of the faculty craving, seeking some support and protection, that shouldn't be happening, not just at penn, but anywhere in america. to your point, willie, about the bipartisan nature, you guys all probably know that the education committee is called to testify i believe next week, the president of northwestern, the president of rutgers, the chancellor of ucla and they are going to have to sit there in front of, you know, members on both sides and answer why are they negotiating with these individuals, many of

whom, by the way, are not even students. i went to the encampment at penn. these are not students. there is a reason why at harvard they won't show i.d.s when asked. it's horrible and it needs to end. again, the administration, i should say one other thing. it wasn't just a speech yesterday. the department of education, which has launched hundred title vi investigations released new guidance for university presidents on what launches a title vi investigation. that means the students civil rights are violated. let me tell you, when you set up a blockade to prevent jewish students from walking to class, when you demand to hear their political idealology before letting them pass. those are title vi violations -- >> jonathan, when they have a circle and they say, we are not

letting you walk across the main lawn, the main quad of the campus! and when you try to, they push out at you and push you away. i'm going to tell you if i were a parent paying for that, for my student to go there and they turned over the main quad to activists, many of whom who aren't student and many of whom are part of an organization that was applauding the raping and slaughtering and the burning of jews, the worst slaughter since the holocaust, man! i would raise hell! this cannot stand where these weak administration officials are saying -- you know what? they are parts of the campus why jews can't walk because we have to respect these outsiders first

amendment rights. so maddening to me. i want to read this again. then i'll go to willie. i love -- i think of people who watch our show as a family. because they are a family. we have been together for 17 years. and i've gotten the loveliest, loveliest emails of people who have disagreed with me saying college campuses should not put up with this. but they always say, hey, it's the students. you got to listen listen to the students, dah, dah. no. this has not been organized by the students. i want to read this again. >> correct. >> the national students for justice in palestine, sjp, which are running all of of this, who is campus chapters lead the encampments on october 7th. they called october 7th, quote, willie, a historic win for the

palestinian resistance. and those people you saw in columbia, their sjp chapter that ran it declared full solidarity with the palestinian resistance on october 9th praising the, quote, historic act, despite the odds. mike barnicle, what they are praising, again, these organizers that organize these protests, praising the worst slaughter of jews since adolf hitler's final solution, the holocaust. >> yeah. you know, joe, the president, obviously, referred to that yesterday. he also referred to something that involves just what you're talking about right now. the fact that it was october 7th when this atrocity occurred, when this car crime occurred. october 7th. and, yet, in the interim time between october 7th and today, so many people seem to have

forgotten what happened on october 7th. the president spoke to it yesterday. jonathan, when he was speaking to it, he was speaking about something called hate and hate is a more powerful weapon than any bomb or any missile used in war fare. and hate exists today in an unparalleled way, i would think. and the idea that the president of the united states has to speak about the growth, the wild growth of anti-semitism, at least to me, to this parent, was kind of shocking. >> it is. i mean, i think people sometimes don't each realize it but at the adl, we track anti-semitism. the number of incidents verified acts of harassment, vandalism, violence, mike, they are up 140% year over year. almost 900% greater today than ten years ago.

at the adl this isn't, you know, a storm. it's not even just a tsunami. it's a planned hurricane. it's not only happening in america but europe and south american and pointed attacks against jewish communities. and, yet, it is astonishing that in 2024 president has to say love thy neighbor and don't hate your fellow americans because of who they are. is that what we want? i'm glad he said what he said. i hope, you know, again, israeli is allowed to prosecute the war in rafah against these terrorists who seek to slaughter jews based solely on who we are. it's not right, not now, not ever. all of us should stand up against it. >> ceo of the antidefamation league, jonathan green blad, thank you so much for being on this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you, jonathan! coming up, marjorie taylor greene names her demands.

we will go over what the republican congresswoman said she wants from speaker mike johnson before she backs off her bid to oust him. okay. also ahead, award winning actor j.k. simmons will be live in the studio to talk about his new film. "morning joe" is coming back. new film "morning joe" is coming back number smart bed? can it keep me warm when i'm cold? wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. can i make my side softer? i like my side firmer. sleep number does that. can it help us sleep better and better? please? sleep number does that. 94 percent of smart sleepers report better sleep. now, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add an adjustable base. shop now at sleepnumber.com

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a live look at a hazy, cloudy, new york city this morning. welcome back. it's wednesday, may 8th. jonathan lemire and mark barnicle are still us with. joining the conversation is jennifer palmeri. >> look at that! hey, cowboy! >> i like the hat. i'm getting to mark mckinnon. janice is the co-host of the msnbc podcast to win with claire and the guy in the hat political strategist mark mckinnon is looking sharp. >> i think when we have a roast of you, willie, we should have -- you need to get this nicki laser, that's for sure. then maybe mark mckinnon to play cleanup there. what do you think? >> he is a mild-mannered generous guy. i don't know if you're a big roaster. would you do well in a roaster? >> you haven't seen the wild

side of me. >> nicki laser of our table. >> why would tom brady -- he's got all of the money he needs -- why would tom brady agree to that roast? >> i don't get it. >> a lot of laughs but savage stuff there. why would he agree to that roast? >> a lot of people, their feelings were hurt. >> there was some pretty brutal stuff. that is how roasts work, mika. i did not watch it. i couldn't bring myself. i felt so bad for tom. part of it was pretty funny. i saw some clips. he spoke at the end. he was skeward and people were upset about some things. why?

he is transitioning in a new phase of his life and leaves the door open coming back to football but likely not happening. he is doing more commercials and maybe more hollywood. this fall he is going to the broadcast booth. perhaps this is an effort to ease that transition to us see him on tv in new ways and not just on the football field. you got me. i'm baffled. >> i think he wanted to prove he didn't have thin skin and he proved he did have thin skin. >> right. >> willie, again, i just -- i don't know. i saw the dean martin roasts. those were funny. you get tim conway up there and you get dean martin and. >> carol burnett. >> right! carol burnett is amazing. you got to get tough and bring rickles in. >> you got to bring rickles in. >> roast master. >> this was really personal. >> exactly!

>> no. they were talk about the kids and gisele. >> that is what i was talk about. >> make fun of others. i just kept sitting there going, why is he doing this? i didn't get it. >> i think one of the roasters actually said that. turned to him and said why are you doing this? you're rich, you're famous. you're good looking and you're retired and you don't need any of the things this is offering you. gronk just got crushed relentlessly for three hours! >> sweet thing. >> he didn't see the microphone. sweet gronk. >> he seems like a nice guy. >> that is the deal with a roast. if you've ever seen the roast, even those comedy centrals is the way it goes. >> apparently -- they edited -- out. >> that's what i thought. >> but it wasn't. >> he must have given some. >> i like how lemire will defend

brady in how this made sense. >> lifetime deal he signed with brady. >> i don't understand that. willie, since you've got your fingers on the pulse of what the kids are thinking right now. >> all right. >> kids are people less than 60. maybe help me out with a couple of things. number one, why was kim kardashian booed like she was at that event? number two, kendrick and drake. what in the world is going on with those two? >> we need ari melber here. >> swifties. >> called her and kanye out for setting her up and making this

video, make it seem as if taylor had given her okay to kanye seeing saying some gnarly things about her and that came out -- >> look at jen! >> oh, yeah. that's right! i admire them and observe them closely. >> okay. what about this, willie? so funny. i don't know if you've seen the instagram clip going around. i, of course, haven't but the kids tell me about it. when i'm in the subway, papa joe, did you see what president obama said a decade ago about kendrick and drake? president obama was asked this question, whose side would you pick? he went with kendrick which apparently even a decade later seems to be a pretty safe bet because he seems to be getting the better of drake at every turn. what is going on here, baby? i want to know! >> i still don't know from before. i still don't know!

despite their chicago ties, president obama has expressed contempt occasionally for kanye and including on live mikes during interviews. but yeah. it's deep. it's personal. it's pretty ugly. i think part of it is, i don't know the full story but kendrick thinks drake is more of a commercial rapper who just puts out hits to make money and he is more of a craftsman and an artist is kendrick sort of hanging over but i'm sure there is something more personal about it that i don't understand. >> got you. >> is that helpful? >> i thought kendrick was the name of a furniture store. >> that is mitchell and gold's. they make beautiful stuff. >> don't they advertise for the red sox? >> i'm trying to think of a transition for you, willie! just why don't you go to our top story. >> we will cut all of this out and it will be fine. >> we are on tape delay.

top story here at 8 after the hour. adult film star stormy daniels is set to return to the stand tomorrow following hours of system yesterday when she described her relationship with former president trump before his time in the white house. relationship is a loose term. nbc senior legal correspondent laura jarrett has more on the trial. >> reporter: donald trump seated just ten feet away as the woman at the center of his hush money cover-up trial stormy daniels testified in vivid detail about their alleged sexual encounterer nearly two decades ago. the adult film actress speaking quickly at times looking directly at the jury recounting how she first met mr. trump at a celebrity golf tournament in 2006 in lake tahoe and went to the suite where the pair had sex and mr. trump said never happened. >> mr. trump, how is it going in

there? >> reporter: she told the jury she was not threatened and wasn't drugged but her testimony about imbalance of power and blacking out during the alleged encounter prompting the defense team to ask the judge to declare a mistrial saying the system is impossible to come back from. the judge refusing to declare a mistrial but agreeing some of daniels' testimony would have been better left unsaid. all leading to a heated cross-examination. the defense zeroing in on testimony daniels gave about an unknown man she says confronted her in a parking lot in 2011. a story she recounted to "60 minutes." a guy walked up on me and said to me, leave trump alone and then he leaned around and looked at my daughter and said, a beautiful little girl, would be a shame if something happened to her mom. >> reporter: the defense pressing her why she didn't call police or tell her then boyfriend at the time.

the testimony stretching far afield the former charges the former president faces for allegedly disguising how he reimbursed michael cohen his former fixen area attorney who paid daniels $130,000 to stay quite before the 2016 election and judge asking daniels to move it along at times. >> the case has fallen apart. they have nothing on books and records. >> reporter: daniels said she was focused on selling her story but my motivation wasn't money. it was to get the story out. adding she didn't feel safe after the parking lot threat. mr. trump's defense attorney taking direct aim at her credibility and past denials of their alleged encounter and grilling her. you are looking to extort money from president trump, right? daniels responding, "false." >> let's bring in legal analyst joyce vance and christy greenberg who is also an msnbc

legal analyst. good morning to you both. i know you're a fan about what happened at the bench but let's talk about what happened in lower manhattan in the courtroom. the testimony at times was cringy we described as what she said happened in the hotel room in las vegas hotel room in 2006. what did you make of her effectiveness as a prosecution witness? >> so i thought she was effective. i thought the cringe was kind of the point. this was the story that donald trump did not want america to hear and this is why he was willing to pay the money to her. a guy who we have heard is very frugal, was willing to make sure this payment was made so that america didn't hear about him showing up, you know, in his hugh hefner satin pajamas and didn't sleep in the same bed with his wife and a woman he

wanted to sleep with who reminded him of his daughter. you had all of these things that portrayed donald trump as really this kind of lame desperate creepy old man and that is a story he wouldn't have wanted to get out. if that had gotten out, it would have been make america gag again because that is felt in the overflow room there. people who were having visceral reactions to what she was saying. so i think, again, it just drove home the prosecution's point this was the story he did not want to get out and that is why he made the payment. >> so, joyce, what we heard from the defense yesterday effectively this might be interesting and soileauion but it's not connected to the alleged crime. how do you draw the line between what happened allegedly in that hotel room in lake tahoe in 2006 and the crime the prosecution is alleging here? >> right that is he can't is a the issue that got teed up in

the motion for mistrial yesterday. so christy is absolutely correct when she says that it's legitimate for the prosecution to present this testimony. it explains to the jury what it was that donald trump was trying to prevent, what he spent his $130,000 to keep out of the public domain. and the issue for appeal is whether or not that was undual prejudicial to donald trump when he declared a mistrial. a strategy here the judge will use to prevent this being this any error that taints a verdict if donald trump is convicted in the case. the judge has said he will give the jury a limited instruction and our colleague danny savalos was on in the first hour suggesting you can't unring the bell once a jury hears testimony like that this. that is really not the case. the law says where a judge gives a limiting instruction telling

the jury, for instance in this case, it might be something like you can't consider this evidence for the truth of the matter. you're not called upon to decide whether, for instance, this sex was consensual or distasteful or whether stormy daniels was threatened in a parking lot. you can only use this evidence to determine what the story that stormy daniels would have told was that donald trump and his campaign wanted to keep out of the public domain. so a limiting instruction like that will cure any possible error and permit a verdict to be confirmed on appeal if there is one. >> mark, out in the country, people watch this program and they see people like lisa and joyce every day. we talk about about it every day and go over it every day in detail. the rest of the country, what do you think the ripple effect of this political trial is on the rest of the country? do you think they pay as much attention to as we do? >> no. i think more of the country it's

mother-in-law of the same and trump supporters and his bay is affirmation it's a political witch hunt that this is just more of the same we have been hearing and in a weird way, the more -- the more trial that happens just reinforces their notion that it's all political retribution for trump. but it is interesting. we were at dinner with a couple of guys from australia last night and they are like, you know, what the -- but the world is watching this and in stunning disbelief of what is happening. we are kind of used to it but the rest of the world is saying my god what is going on over there? >> jen, this is like when bill clinton was president we would have investigations on the hill and it didn't matter whether it was a 2 or a 9. you know? whatever it was, we realized over time that the more we did it, the content just didn't matter. i mean, you could be selling

missile technology to china that the d.o.d. and intel community and everybody else said don't do that and it could be benefiting the largest contributor of the dnc but you try to tell people like that, they are like, oh, you guys are just going after bill clinton again. at the end i was thinking, seriously? with all of the things that have happened you're going to do monica? it was just in the mix. so everybody was overwhelmed no matter what you brought up about bill clinton. it only made him stronger. he left the president by is an approval rating close to reagan's, i think over 60. >> he was like at 60%. >> 60%. i sense the same thing happening here. the more people read about these trials, the more -- especially for republicans -- but even some independents -- they are like, whatever.

i'm curious. this is a big, big lead-up to what breaks through? if you listen to what mckinnon said, if you listen to my recounting of the 1990s and bill clinton, the question is what breaks through? >> the bill clinton's highest approval rating was the day he was impeached at 75%! december of 1998. yeah. but i do think -- you know, no -- history doesn't actually repeat itself. i think that -- a race that is this close and when we know that there are republicans that are open to not voting for trump. last night in the indiana primary he did not get 20% of the vote and evangelicals thinking i don't have to support this guy again. a little bit of that did breakthrough. republicans are deciding am i doing this again or not and

could be discussed not to do it. so i don't think it doesn't matter. >> in that primary last night in indiana, nikki haley, who has been out of the race two months, got 125,000 votes and 21%. >> that has got to mean something. >> 21% of the vote in indiana for nikki haley not in the race. >> a race that is potentially this case, that has to be meaningful. >> yeah. that really is crazy, isn't it, mark, mckinnon in all of your years in politics, nikki haley has been out of this race for months. again, if that were barack obama, if that were george w. bush, you put the incumbent there. >> you're talking about almost a quarter of republican voters who are voting for somebody who is not technical even on the ballot. you think about a race in which,

you know, trump needs every single vote. those voters are either, you know -- they are not going back and vote for trump, are they? they either are going to vote for joe biden or not vote. >> not necessarily an an radiation and seen that in previous dates that nikki haley getting a big chunk of the vote. let's go back to the trial. day off today. tomorrow, stormy daniels will be back on the stand still on cross-examination. what do you expect to hear from trump's defense team there? >> well, they have already started their cross-examination and it's already hard hitting. you have susan necklace who is the only female member of donald trump's team and she largely has been sidelined and not talked to trump and doesn't seem to engage with the other attorneys as well but this is her moment and she has come out, you know, guns blazing and she is attacking the fact that stormy daniels' storm has changed and she initial denied that there was a sexual encounter and now that she is saying there was.

again, stormy daniels explained a lot of of that on direct but expect a lot of bringing up old tweets. she has an ax to grind. she has come out and hates donald trump and came out on cross-examination. she is going to try to dirty her up and say this is about money and getting her name out there and not about the truth of anything that she is saying. i'm not sure how effective that will be. i thought on direct she was humanized. she did explain why her story has changed and i thought it was effective but we will see what happens on cross. >> joyce, i want to get your take on the other pretty seismic event in the trump legal world yesterday and that is out of florida where judge cannon postponed indefinitely the classified documents case there. as we discussed earlier in the morning, many experts believe this is the strongest case against trump, that they feel like likelihood of a conviction but with this delay and if it

pushes past the election and trump were to win again, he could have his doj make it go away. did anything that happened yesterday surprise you and if you had to guess, when do you think this trial might ever see the light of day? >> yeah. so what happened yesterday is perhaps not surprising but extremely disappointing to see a federal judge handle a case in this manner. i was reflecting, jonathan, trying to thinking g i ever had a case where a judge refused to set a realistic trial date. for months now, the judge cannon has kept a may 20th trial date on her books it was clear that that date for trial was not going to happen. because she has failed to bring forward and make some of the decisions about whether or not donald trump will be able to use classified information at trial that have to be made well in advance of trial. in fact, this week, she simply said that trump's team did not have to identify classified

information that they wanted to use at trial, which could trigger an appellate process. you get the point here, right? we are months out from resolution of motions. >> wow. >> that would permit this case to go to trial. there is, i think, at this point, virtually no chance this case goes to trial before the election. >> pretty incredible. msnbc legal analyst joins vance and christy greenberg, thank you very much for joining us. coming up, college protests against israeli's war in gaza have dominated recent headlines but new polling shows the issue barely registers with college students and we will dig into those numbers next on "morning joe." o those numbers next on "morning joe. clearer skin. ♪ things are getting clearer...♪ ( ♪♪ ) ♪ i feel free... ♪ ♪ to bear my skin, yeah that's all me. ♪ ♪ nothing is everything ♪

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i'm serious. >> 28 past the hour. more than a dozen conservative federal judges say they won't be hiring law clerks who attend columbia university because of half the school has responded to recent pro-palestinian protests on campus. wow. the 13 judges all appointed by former president trump sent a letter to the universities' president and dean of the law school this week, explaining they have, quote, lost confidence in columbia as an institution of higher education. the letter goes on to read -- columbia has stead become an incubator of bigotry.

as a result, columbia has disqualified itself from educating the future leaders of our country. the dean of columbia's law school put out a statement in support of students arguing columbia law graduates are, quote, consistently sought out by leading employers in the private and public sectors, including the judiciary. willie? >> joins us now is the ceo of the data intelligence company generation lab, cyrus. his group is out with polling fish published yesterday examining how college students are feeling about the ongoing protests in campuses across the country. what did you find? we have been talking about the last couple of weeks where you see some polling that was brought to us that shows the 15th or 16th most important issue gaza. >> we have steady stream from

college campuses. we have got the largest frame of young people, 2 million young people across the country. we did a poll of 1,250 college students across hundreds of campuses to see. yeah, how important is gaza? we have seen the footage, obviously. what we found was, number one issue, not gaza. number one was health care. number two was student debt. number three was the economy. gaza came in last so very consistent with the polling that you've mentioned. i think the big thing to consider here is young people tend to look at this issue a lot like the rest of the electorate. not so different. >> the follow on that was you asked these students have you actually participated in these demonstrations on campus. what did you find? >> 92% have not participated in those protests.

everything we have seen on the screens the last few weeks, is about 8% of college students. so very, very, very slim minority. of those who are not protested, which is 92% or so again, 4-1 or so are favorable or sympathetic to the palestinian cause. >> what is your sense of the college students that you've polled over the campuses you've been to? are they going to vote or not? >> yes. there is huge, huge, huge, huge energy. we have tracked this from 2020 up until now avenue we have seen rising intention to vote and i think the question is what issues will drive them. going into the last few days, would have been that gaza is the big issue that will swing young voters. the data says otherwise. >> i covered a protest recently and the one commonality between both sides and they were all very emotional and animated

about it. to a person, they said screw biden and screw trump. if they are going to vote, are they voting for either one of these guys? or is this an rfk opportunity or what is going to happen? >> they don't seem very happy with the two nominees of the two parties. >> they definitely are but where did you run in these folks? those are folks at protest and you didn't meet them at the bars. at the end of the day, this makes me think if i've watched "law and order" 20 years and i go into an actual courtroom for the first time, i'm waiting for the surprise witness to get wheeled out, you know, who everybody thought was dead and i'm waiting for the jury outbust, but in reality -- >> you think at the end of the day self-interest they will vote? >> self-interest, they will vote. we released a poll with cnbc yesterday and it found that biden is only leading trump by one and rfk gets 29% of the

vote. >> what is the age frame? 18 to 34. biden won young voters 18-29 and won them by 24 points in 2010. >> 1 now? >> plus 1. >> rfk is a stand-in we don't like our choices and there is another guy sitting there, sure, we will go along with that? >> exactly, exactly. in big reasons it seems that biden is leaking you support -- i think impossible to look at any of the data we collected that biden is in a great position for young voters. i think the reason for that is not gaza. believe it or not, it's not gaza despite everything we have been seeing the last few weeks. >> what is it? >> it's the kitchen table students and boring stuff. >> health care, education, economy. more normal life issues. like every other voter. >> like every other voter. >> this is a generation of young voters who don't think the future is as good for them as it

was for their parents which is sort of a stable part of our country thinking for forever. >> their parents think that the president is not as promising for them as it was for their parents. so you're talking about two, three generations here of people who think we are going downhill. >> yeah. >> fascinating to see how this plays out over the next six months or so. ceo of generation labs cyrus, thank you very much for that information. appreciate it. joe? speaking of information. willie, i think i just got -- yes, i did. we just got breaking news from the dead worm in the brain desk. let's go to john in the head desk. jonathan, what -- >> what in the world is this? >> it's breaking news. we have hired lemire to investigate people who have dead worms in their brains that ate part of their brains. >> i wear many hats for this particular show.

gang, yes, a "the new york times" story that just posted. we know suzanne well operating off of a deposition given by robert f. kennedy some years ago relating how robert f. kennedy jr. went in for scans and people thought he might be sick. they found a dark spot on the brain and mr. kennedy says there is a dead parasite in his brain. the abnormality was caused by a worm that got into my brain and ate a portion of it and then died. robert f. kennedy jr. suggesting a worm ate and died while there. we will have more on this breaking news. >> usually this happens with livestock, right? this is something.

yeah. that may have helped him, right, willie? >> this is a real story. mark just said is this a real story? it sure is and just popped in new york city from suzanne and craig. parasite ate part of robert f. kennedy jr.'s brain. >> it happens. >> i think we need to put up for a second. a fascinating story. so he thought -- i guess what you're saying, jonathan lemire, when he is foggy and his brain and everything, they went to check and when they checked, they think -- dead worm in his brain that ate part of his brain. what you're saying? >> yes. my wife actually just texted me this story. she went what is this? and then i'm reading it and now

relaying it here. he suggested he had some memory loss and fogginess. he now says he believes he has recovered. he gave an interview to "the times." the now presidential candidate says he is fine now and that his spokesperson even said that he is far less health issues than any of his competition. obviously, a shot there at the age of his two main competitors. yes, robert f. kennedy jr. saying a dead worm in his brennan and died there after eating parts of his brain. >> right now, i've got to say he is, though, i think, until we get further information, i do think he is the only of the three major candidates that have had a dead worm or worms eating part of his brain. >> thank you. >> there is that. >> potentially an edge. what is coming up next? >> coming up, host and creator

director of msnbc live luke russert how he found his voice after his legendary father tim russert passed away. luke will join us after a break. .

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if you can believe it, next month marks 16 years since we lost our dear colleague and friend tim russert.

russert, after he suffered a heart attack preparing for "meet the press" in our washington bureau. he was 58 years old. tim's son luke just 22 at the time began his own career with nbc news before he left it all behind in 2016 to face his loss. after traveling to more than 60 countries on a trip that lasted more than three years, luke detailed his journey in his memoir "look for me there, grieving my father and finding myself which is now out in paperback. luke joins us now. he is the host and creative director of msnbc live, a concept that i absolutely love! but let's, first, luke, welcome back to the show. let's talk about the book which is now out in paperback. that journey, why was it important for you to get away a little bit? because you were in this world.

>> you gave me very sage advice when i was in my 20s. you grew up in a similar washington bubble. i remember you saying to me there is no harm getting outside of this bubble a little bit and seeing what the rest of the world was like. i didn't take that advice immediately. when i got to around 30, which i thought was old at the time and now i'm 38, i realize that is not very old. i started to realize that i had this lingering question who was i independent of the last name? who was i independent of this privilege and this d.c. washington bubble i grew up in and would i be able to live with myself if i never tried to ask and answer that question. i decided to travel six months to a year and it ended up being three years. i was on two parallel tracks. a, i was trying to answer something which is the question of who i was independent of all of this. but i was also running away from something and i was running away from processing the grief of losing my father. if i really processed it and i

had to admit he was gone and my guiding light and rock was not there any more. that took a long time to process. once i was able to get through it and write about it, i really got to a place of peace of which i am so thankful. it's a very long journey. often what grief journey are. they are different for everybody and you got to find your own way. this response got such a big response and i read about it in the afterword and what it meant possess me. >> i remember the summer after your dad died, you just graduated from b.c. we put you out in front of the camera. you stepped right in and you write about in the book trying to live up to your dad's game and carry on a legacy and carry the torch. i remember we were at conventions. >> you were very young then, too! >> it was a long time ago. you did a great job. you were fighting to earn your place and you didn't want people

to think you were there for the wrong reason. i refresh thinking this is a lot to put on you not because of your age but what were grappling with at the time. how do you look back on that year? >> i think i'm trying to lift the spirits of the network and we see tim's twinkle in your eye, right? and really wanting to do that to honor him. i don't think in that process did i come to realize the enormity of that. i don't think i realize what i was putting myself through. honestly at that time, like a lot of young men in their 20s, it was be tough, don't worry about this. don't be vulnerable and don't be emotionally. you got to be strong and don't be weak. i realize now later that is wrong. you have to be vulnerable and willing to look at yourself and say, you know what? maybe this is not the best situation for me to have to white knuckle everything and find that balance between showing up and working hard, but

also realizing you know what? i don't want to put this undue stress on myself to live up to something that is maybe impossible. it's very hard to follow a legend. you look at those nfl teams that have legendary quarterbacks. sometimes it takes 15, 20, 30 years to follow them and a reason why. >> when you went on the road. >> so great. >> initially, it looked like you were just doing a travel log. >> yeah. >> sending pictures from bali and everything. >> i missed you in bali. >> i envied you. i wanted to be there for you. one of my favorite spots. >> right on. >> was there a point in time over those two or three years in which a lot of people who love you and were close to you and close to your father, wondered is there going to be a time when guilt meets grief? the guilt of what am i doing with myself? just taking these trips, you know? whacking out my american express card. i got to get something going

here for myself. was there anything happening -- when that happened or did it happen? >> one of my -- >> did you get some texts from uncle mike on the road? that sounded pretty personal! >> one of my favorite musicians and jennifer as well is where he writes a song "something more than free." own talks about the concept if you have too much freedom it becomes like a noose and you can hang yourself with it. i think i got to the point i realized as great as the experiences it was way different in year three as year one. i wasn't as engaged as i should be. like the travel post was the job and i wasn't working on myself hard enough. i had two conversations. one with my mother she sat me down at the kitchen table. you got privileges and opportunities and what are you doing here? a close friend then said this experience is so enriching you might want to do something with it and help some people out. i came through the journals and

if i can help out one kid who feels lost because they lost their dad and what i have to do and i threw myself into it and the response is overwhelming, mike. i got a letter from a lady in her 90s and she showed up to see me in south buffalo on sunday. she basically said, you know, you could be in your 90s and still not have fully processed grief, right? imagine that, carrying a grief for 70 years and not processing it because of the times, because of your own emotions. the fact that i've been able to open that up in some people i thought it would be more of eye own age cohort but a lot of people hold that grief a long time and it's overwhelming and the community has come around. it took a long time but i got to where i needed to be. >> luke, i think it's brilliant. >> we will fix you up and i'll translate. >> yeah. oh! i was just saying. i think it's brilliant what luke

did. and there are -- you hear from rock stars and like joe walsh and you hear from so many people they don't understand the journey they are going through until they get to the end and they look back and it all connects. and it's so important, willie, that luke got out and actually had that down time and was able to wrestle with that grief. and with that grief, because -- so luke can hear. luke, i was saying it all makes sense now, like so many things when you get down the road, you look back and see how things are interrelated and connected, and i remember mika talking to you, she talked to you and said, you

grew up in a family like my family, and you will get there by doing other things, by working harder than everybody else and doing things that other people have not done, and i look at what you have done and your dad went in a different direction, but it's the same for your dad, when he went to work for senator moynihan, he told him, you have experiences nobody else have had and that's why i need you. luke, you have had experiences no other people have had, traveling around trying to out run your grief, and the grief caught up to you and you bring back all these experiences, and i think it's beautiful, man. tell us how it changed you as a person and what you brought back from that journey? >> i think where i changed as a

person more than anything is it pushed me to be more vulnerable. the space of being vulnerable, i was able to not only understand myself but understand others in a deep and meaningful way. joe, you get caught up in what the news cycle is, and what is up and down and all that, and you don't take enough to step away, and be perspective and evaluate things, and what matters to people, and going around the world, you see, it's pretty simple, people want food in their bellies and a sense of safety and an opportunity for themselves and children, and everything else is an added bonus. there are a lot of god-fearing people around the world who at the end of the day are kind and welcoming. i went to countries who would think do not like the united states and they could not have been closer. one thing i want to say to you, joe, and you honed in the last

time i was on and you quoted our good friend, mr. brokaw, about being able to talk to your loved ones every day, and so many people came up and said i know it sounds crazy, but talk to your dad, you can do it. i said, i know, i can do. joe scarborough does, too. a lot of people do. >> the further i get away from my father and his death, the more he's with me. there's such a peace to it that my mom, dad and grand mom, we stand on the shoulders of giants, whether those giants raised kids in the great depression in rural georgia, or whether they led "meet the

press," whatever, we don't see them as that. we see them as our parents. you are right, your father is with you every single day, and you are what he helped to make. isn't that comforting and beautiful? >> it is. what i say is the real place of peace is when you lost loved one comes up, you don't cry, you smile, and i am so thankful for the 22 years. i miss him, but i was so lucky for that time and filled with gratitude and so glad i had a chance to explore -- >> it's a beautiful book. >> the first draft was 3,000 words.

>> it's "look for me there," and it's a beautiful book. luke russert, thank you so much. give your best to your mom. >> thank you. teaming up to teach people the art of small talk. we will tell you why it's an important skill to have when we come right back.

now you think that we are making a mistake as a society because we are not teaching small talk to our children? >> yes, i feel like we are the personality country and that was our whole thing, talk, free speech, and kids get shoved into school like study hard and you will be a success. in this country, count really high and have a great

personality. kids walk in, and you think, you are going into society, the rest of your life will be here, not with your family, and just walk in and memorize a couple phrases, and teach a kid the first day of preschool, is it me or is the bus driver a little off? >> yeah, one of the famous people that discusses how to master conversation with strangers in the new book titled "the art of small talk." casey wilson and jessica st. claire. now i am self-conscious about my chatter here. were we good in the commercial break? >> you deserve the lifetime achievement awaeurd. >> we're not an accredited university yet, pending.

>> if ted talk is listening, we are tech avail. >> let's talk about when you think we lost the art of small talk, phones, covid, what was it? >> casey and i are best friends and we have been texting each other our favorite exchanges, and even casey's get me going. >> if i say to somebody, christmas lights going up earlier and earlier every year, i am like, oh! kids don't small talk really. they are so used to -- >> when you engage in small talk, when and how do you start? >> we like to ask a question, because everybody likes to talk about themselves -- >> this one loves to complain. you can find an enemy whether it

be the dmv -- i am, like, what is she writing the great american novel in there? >> we like to place whoever you are talking to in power, you know so much about the news. i am so impressed. >> and we said to our boss, what do you do if you get stuck with a boring person? he said if you think somebody's boring, it's because you are boring. you have not asked the right questions. you are seven questions away from somebody's passion. when they talk about what they are passionate about -- >> the most common talk is the weather. >> it's not about content but

it's about contact with other people. >> every time you have a stupid exchange about the weather, you are getting a hit of dopamine and so are they, and malcolm made us do research. >> so annoying. what, is this a book? it is. >> it increases your life, your longevity. >> is that true? >> yes! >> i can do anything, tire sizes, what do you put in the refrigerator. >> you will live forever. >> i feel like you are a good small talker? >> i moved a lot as a kid, and my dad was in the navy so you had to learn to observe and figure out where you can figure in and what the cool kids were talking about and dive in. >> this sounds creepy. always be scanning for a mark. this is so creepy, right? one of the ways you signal that

you are down to clown, we say affix your face in what we like to call a mona lisa smile. >> you are not unwell with full teeth. >> full teeth says be careful. >> and small talk can be nonverbal. you can get a dopamine hit by a smile. >> what do you want to stay away from? >> some of the bigger topics, like your family, and, you know, you are talking about extended family. my family is prone with breaking dishes over each other's heads -- >> they are from rhode island. >> we will do more to bridge a gap politically than to get into each other's faces.

find some in common. the rock. oprah. true crime. >> everybody has had a murder in their small town. we are always six degrees away from a murder. >> and it's nice because -- >> don't be a bummer. keep it light. kio, keep it light, like, true crime? >> yeah, it's not your trauma, and we don't want to take advantage of somebody else's drama. >> yeah, we don't want to hear about your cat dying, and that can get six questions later, and we would say go shallow to go deep. >> start with the weather and finish with my cat dying. great advice. >> one piece of advice, don't be

afraid to lie. say, i love that tie. even if it's not great, you know? >> we do like your tie. >> very counterintuitive, right? there's too much truth. >> too much truth in this day and age. >> this is pretty good advice? >> thank you. >> "the art of small talk" on sale now. thank you both. good to see you. >> thank you. the third hour of "morning joe" starts right now. trump posted and then quickly deleted an angry statement about stormy daniels testifying, saying his lawyers had no time to prepare. nobody could predict the stormy daniels trial could have stormy daniels. >> donald trump forced to listen

to her account of an affair she says they had back in 2006. we will go through her testimony and get expert legal analysis on this trial as well as a major development in the classified documents case. we will also play for you part of president biden's speech yesterday at a holocaust remembrance ceremony, where he condemned the rise in anti-semitism and on campus violence. good morning to "morning joe." >> i interrupted you before you even got to the date, mika. this will get the emails flooding in. sorry, sweetie, do you forgive me? >> yeah. yeah. go ahead. >> okay. so willie, on a serious note, it

was so great. a picture can paint a thousand words, and it was so great for the world to see the american president and the american speaker of the house next to each other for holocaust remembrance day. if anybody out there, if anybody in america, or anybody across the world thought there was an inch between those two gentlemen, those two leaders, two of the most powerful leaders in the world on the issue of anti-semitism are whether america was going to back down in the defense of jews, that picture eliminates any hopes for semites or bigots in america.

and it was great for president biden and speaker johnson to work together for all the right reasons. >> yeah, and that was a very striking bipartisan image yesterday, and it was a great speech by the president making the point there's no daylight between us and israel. this is our strong ally. we support israel even when we disagree. it's okay to disagree on policy and it's okay to disagree at times about israel's execution of the war, and it was a very strong moment, especially, mika, when contrasted where his opponent was yesterday. >> that's our top story.

stormy daniels scheduled to return to the witness stand in the criminal trial. she testified about the sexual encounter she said she had with trump in 2006, and $130,000 deal that was struck for her silence ten years later during the 2016 presidential campaign. daniels described how she first met trump at a 2006 celebrity golf event in lake tahoe, and later met him in his penthouse where trump discussed putting her on his reality show "the celebrity imprinciple tuesday.

>> the judge shot down the request and acknowledged there would be better if some things were left unsaid. >> i want to say, mika, you don't call for a mistrial after you are sitting there, and maybe he was half a sleep with donald trump while she's giving this testimony, and i don't know that you would call it graphic but it -- >> very personal. >> it went into very personal details, and as the judge said, it would have been better if nobody heard that inside that courtroom, but when somebody goes there, the judge stands up -- the defense stands up and they object. so that would have stopped the testimony. the defense didn't stand up and object along the way because the

judge clearly thought -- at one point he even told, stormy daniels, uh, too much generation, okay? give us the general outlines. we don't care what you two did. the judge is exactly right, if the defense had a problem with it coming in, that's when you stand up and object. >> that's a really valuable point. i think there's a discussion and debate that will have our experts talking about this, but whether or not the prosecution over reached a little bit and might it be too much for the jury to be come on, man, i don't need to hear -- i don't want to repeat it. you can look it up. some of this stuff was graphic and disturbing, actually. at the same time you could argue that she is, i guess, the prosecution has to prove that there was something that happened that he was paying for to cover up.

i don't know. when asked if trump ever told daniels to keep things between them confidential in the aftermath of the encounter, she said, quote, absolutely not. but once the "access hollywood" tape went public in 2016, trump's then lawyer, michael cohen, wanted to buy her science. the defense tried to paint daniels as a liar and extortionist, and daniels said her motivation was not money and she just wanted to get her story out publicly. she also acknowledged that she hates trump. speaking of experts, let's bring in former litigator, lisa ruben, and dana cevallos. and jonathan lemire, the host of "way too early." how do we put into words what

happened at trial, and where do you think the prosecution landed with their questioning of stormy daniels. was it effective or perhaps over-zealousness there? >> you know, mika, i have a slightly different take on all of this than some folks do. i didn't think the testimony was graphic at all. i thought while she provided lots of details that were extraneous in the trump's attorney or the judge, it was like the fact that his toiletries had old spice and perk plus. she added one detail about the sexual encounter that i think the judge wished she hadn't, and when he said some things are

better left unsaid, but a lot of that had to do with what was going on in her mind at the time. it's the impact of what her story would have been had michael cohen would not have rushed to do that, and in a but-for universe, what would have happened, what would the impact have been on the campaign, a campaign already reeling from the "access hollywood" allegations, and what ensued the following days, including other women coming to the "new york times" and saying they had been victims of his sexual misconduct.

the jury needed to hear, what that would have sounded like. >> i think i am with lisa here, willie, that, you know, it wasn't graphic sexual testimony. i mean, you would have found -- you will hear more graphic and offensive statements in the first 15 seconds of the tom brady roast on netflix than what you heard in stormy daniels's testimony. >> that was something. >> oh, wow. >> it was more, just, disturbing. >> kaboom! we will talk about that at some other point, willie. >> she's incredible. two words. >> yeah. yeah. that's what he said.

so anyway, willie, it was not graphic sexually. mika knows what i am talking about, where there were parts you read and you are going, what is melania thinking about it? what is ivanka thinking about this? there are things where she got into his personal life and was talking about things that i am sure made him extremely uncomfortable on a personal level. she did not get into really any graphic detail other than maybe one time, she just, you know, i am not going to say it -- this is a kids' show, so i will not say, and she described one thing and even that was pretty generalized. i do wonder, though, why the defense didn't object to it. regardless, i don't think the prosecution hurt its case.

she laid out what happened and the cross had their point, and, again, it's for people watching this, it was not a graphic description of sex, but it was things that made us all uncomfortable for trump's family. >> yeah, more cringey than graphic. she said some of the things about melania and ivanka that all can go read, some comparisons made. the defense did not object, but their general objection to stormy daniels as a witness is what does any of this have to do -- what does this detail and salaciousness have to do with the case, and they allege it's about paperwork. what do you say about that? >> years from now if there's a conviction and this goes up to the appellant division and it's overturned, so far stormy daniels's testimony to me stands

out as the main issue they have on appeal. you have a quote from the judge saying, some of this stuff, maybe it should not have come in, and if you are a defense attorney you are marking your notebook and you have your first major issue. years from now when we are talking about balancing the risk versus the benefit of putting stormy daniels on the stand, was it worth it? i think the prosecution could have gotten most if not all of the evidence needed from other witnesses and they already have done that. the transaction from michael cohen to stormy daniels. nobody seems to dispute that. and then describing the increasing market value of her story, and we got that from hope hicks. with every witness the

prosecution puts on, they have to do a risk/benefit analysis. at the end of the day, yes, they got good stuff. in my view, and maybe i am a defense attorney, and maybe there was a grain of salt to be taken with this, they essentially got in character evidence about how slimy donald trump is. who can unring the bell in their mind of donald trump waiting until she comes into the bathroom and plopping on the bed in his boxers. who can get the image of him answering the door in his jam jams out of their mind? can't do that. we just learned from harvey weinstein. this evidence is devastating, and we are all talking about it, and we can have a dispute was it that salacious or sexy, doesn't

matter, the jury heard it and they can't hear it, and striking the testimony is a hollow victory, a hollow benefit after the testimony has already come out. look, what stormy daniels a wise witness? yes, in the sense she put in all this great evidence for the prosecution. it's evidence that has nothing to do with the elements they have to prove. this is not a sexual assault case. this is a false entries and documents case and concealment of another crime. you have your first major issue on appeal, and the conviction got overturned. this is terrible, and then we can say the prosecution took a calculated risk and it's yielded benefits in the last 24 hours, but maybe in a couple years those benefits may not have been worth it. >> this team from stormy daniels was just to humiliate donald trump in a public setting and they say it has nothing to do

with what is being charged here. what do you say to that? >> at a technical level i understand what they are saying. on another level it has everything to do with what is being charged here. the jury has to find direct evidence that donald trump had knowledge of and intent to falsify business records, and there was a ton of circumstantial evidence. michael cohen will be the only person that gets on the stand and directly ties donald trump to that knowledge and intent. what do they have to do? they have to work backwards to convince the jury, donald trump had every motive and incentive to not only do the deal but to cover it up. how do you convince the jury, for her this was a traumatic incident. it recasts donald trump from the womanizer that we understood this episode to be about, to the

predator that the "access hollywood" tape made him out to be. it reinforced him a frame of him that was existing in the political dialogue at the time and makes all the more credible by donald trump and michael cohen would work so hard to conceal the true nature of the payment and disguise it as legal services and invoices pursuant to a retainer agreement, something in testimony that was described for the jury. >> we will sneak in a 60-second break. when we come back, another major development in trump's legal troubles, why that case has been delayed indefinitely. "morning joe" is back in a moment. "morning joe" is back in a moment ce now at safelite.com. ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ liberty mutual customized my car insurance

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the other big story that broke in florida, trump's documents trial has been postponed indefinitely. the trial was later to start later this month, but the district judge cannon announced the delay. she said it would be imprudent. trump has denied any wrong doing. special counsel, jack smith, and his team argued trump's lawyers have had ample time to prepare for a trial. joe, this is one of those situations where a lot of legal experts have been saying that this is the most clear-cut case, and maybe even one of the most serious cases, and yet this is the judge that was picked and this is the way things go.

>> welcome to the american judicial system. >> that's correct. >> jonathan, i will go to you and then our experts. you know, early on i had judges and lawyers always tell me, you know what? you will win. most of the time things go the way they should go, but, you know, 20% of the time you will win cases that you have no right to win, and 20% of the time a jury will come back and be assured you will lose 20% of the cases that you never should have lost. there's just -- there's checks and balances. but in this case, in this case it's exposed to the world that right now we are trying what many experts consider to be the weakest case, and what many,

like myself, and i said this before, we are in a case that i don't think for a variety of reasons should have been brought, but we are there, and then we are trying it. then you have the case that most experts say is, like, it's like the strongest case. i mean, this guy stole nuclear secrets. this guy stole war plans out of a government building on secret war plans on what we would do in invading iran. this guy stole sensitive secrets that other countries would pay tens of millions of dollars for, and probably even more, stole them and lied to the fbi, and lied to the justice department. had his lawyers lie to the fbi, and lie to the justice department. then tried to get, according to testimony, his i.t. director, to

destroy the cameras and evidence. when he wouldn't do it, allegedly we are hearing he tried to flood the rooms, and talked to the maintenance guy that said i will not do that. you have -- you have the most important case of all the cases brought against trump, and it's with a judge that will make sure it never sees the light of day. i mean, it's just -- ain't that america for you and me? >> yeah. >> it is uneven. again, i have faith in the judicial system. at the end of the day, everything does balance out. i am not here, like, you know -- i am not here trashing the american judicial system. sometimes stuff happens, and here we have a great irony. we are living through a case that a lot of people thought should never have been brought,

and we are not hearing a case central to trump's crimes, and she's just burying it. >> yeah, it's another phenomenon that we have had to live with in the last ten years, donald trump always gets away with it. that's what democrats and americans have said for such a long time, including yesterday. this is not a surprise. one person said to me, donald trump won that case the minute that judge was assigned to it. she was his appointee, and she has done everything to slow this down. reporters were posting, you know, this trial is supposed to start in two weeks, and she postponed it indefinitely. if trump was to win, he could instruct his attorney general to make this one go away.

maybe this one will never ever see the light of day. lisa ruben, let's get your analysis of this case yesterday. do you have any sense, taking even a haphazard guess, as to when this trial will begin? is there any recourse here for jack smith? >> let's start with can this case be tried before the election. i think that ship has long since sailed. yesterday was no surprise. i can't underscore how little of a surprise it was. it was more surprising that stormy daniels got on stand and said she had sex with donald trump than it was that aileen cannon postponed the trial date. she has a number of pending motions that have been fully briefed for months on which she

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the white house is remaining optimistic a cease-fire deal can be reached between israel and hamas. national security council spokesman, john kirby, says he believes the two sides should be able to close the remaining gaps. the biggest sticking point is whether israel will end the war. under the proposal, the second phase calls for a, quote, sustainable calm.

hamas interprets that as israel withdrawing its troops. israel says each cease-fire is temporary. the white house made a decision last week over concerns the weapons would be used in rafah, a city where more than a million would seek refuge, so bombs were withheld. president biden condemned a rise in anti-semitism during a speech yesterday during a holocaust remembrance ceremony. the president drew a parallel between the holocaust and the october 7th attack by hamas,

which he said were driven by an ancient desire to wipe out the jewish people. he addressed the protests at college campuses over the war in gaza. >> the hatred with jews didn't start with the holocaust or end with the holocaust or after the victory in world war ii, this lies deep in the hearts of too many people in the world and requires our continued vigilance and outspokenness. now, here we are, not 75 years later, but just 7 1/2 months later and people are already forgetting, already forgetting, that hamas unleashed this terror. it was hamas that brutalized israelis. it was hamas that took hostages.

i have not forgotten, nor have you, and we will not forget. in america, we respect and protect the fundamental right to free speech, to debate and disagree, to protest peacefully and make our voices heard. i understand that's america, but there's no place on any campus in america, anyplace in america for anti-semitism or hate speech of any kind, against jews or anybody else. violent attacks and destroying property is not peaceful protests. it's against the law. we are not a lawless company. we are a civil society. we uphold the rule of law, and nobody should have to hide or be brave just to be themselves.

>> that was president biden yesterday in washington. coming up, we will bring in the ceo of the anti-definition league about what the president's words mean in the fight against bigotry. that's next on "morning joe." what? horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. what happened to my inner child craving love and acceptance? how about you love and accept this? p-p-p-p-powershot! when can i drive? you already are! the dodge hornet r/t... the totally torqued-out crossover. lowering bad cholesterol can be hard, even with a statin. diets and exercise add to the struggle. today, it's possible to go from struggle to cholesterol success with leqvio. with a statin, leqvio is proven to lower bad cholesterol by 50% and keep it low with 2 doses a year.

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let's bring in the ceo of the anti-definition league, jonathan. before i get there, here's the back page, evan. it has been 403 days since vladimir putin seized evan and holding him for committing absolutely no crime at all. maybe marjorie taylor greene might want to think about that before she tries to do putin's

bidding again, as well as other republicans that are trying to do that. i want to read part of the editorial from "the wall street journal." the president was right to recognize that, quote, a ferocious surge in anti-semitism and around the world, and his condemnation on campus is important. destroying property is not peaceful protests, he added. it's against the law. he's right and he should name names. national students for justice in palestine, sjp, whose campus chapters led the encampments called october 7th, quote, a historic win for palestinian resistance. it's the worst slaughter since the holocaust that sjp is calling a win. columbia's sjp praised the, quote, historic attack, despite

the odds. jonathan, i am so glad "the wall street journal" editorial page brought that up, because it was something that i just keep thinking about, debates as these protests go on. these groups running the protests, they claim they are running it because of the people of gaza. no. they were praising the slaughter of jews. they were praising the raping of jews. they were praising women being torn from their homes and daughters being raped to death and then being paraded around like animals in gaza while people cheered. i have to keep going. little babies being shot in their cribs, in their bassinets. these groups on college campuses, they were praising

that, and they were praising that children had to watch their parents being shot pointblank, and parents watching their children being slaughtered before their own eyes, and these groups that faculty members saluted, they were calling that a historic win right after the slaughter. they can say it was about bombing in gaza. no, it was about -- exactly what they say it was about, right? when people say who they are, you believe them. it was about genocide, from the river to the sea, wiping israel off the face of the earth. >> students for justice in palestine, joe, it's the furthest things you can imagine from the protests in the '60s. as you said, this is a group of

people that applaud slaughter. we track those organizations like sjp, and on october 8th, when we were trying to figure out what happened on the morning of 10/7, we were trying to figure out who was alive and who was dead, sjp released organizing tool kits and discussion guides and action plans on october 8th, long before the idf went into gaza, and rafah, and they do not want a two-state solution, but they want to globalize the mass murder of jews everywhere. we come back to the president's speech, right? what he did yesterday in the moment of unprecedented anti-semitism was giving an unprecedented statement of solidarity and support.

i never heard a president give a speech like this before, and i know what it takes to put something like this together. he was clear. he was crisp. he drew that line, as he said, from the showa to hamas. that was important. i am here in philadelphia, and last night i was sitting with students from the university of pennsylvania, and these students, they are desperate and exhausted and angry because they don't feel protected and supported. president biden said i see you. i have an ironclad commitment. i think they and the country needed to hear that yesterday. >> you know, willie, when -- i always talk about how important it is for presidents to go to hurricane zones when people have

just been through a hurricane and their entire lives have been wiped out. a president being there, and i have seen it firsthand. bill clinton was not particularly popular in my district, but when he came after hurricanes, man, it went something to those people. it was, like, the president of the united states is here with us and he cares. those kids -- i call them kids because i have got kids in college. when i do it, i hope people understand it's a term of endearment. my heart hurts for them, because they know -- i know they are young. it's just horrible. they have been chased across campuses. their parents have called them home. i know specifically of so many instances on certain days when they hid in their dorm rooms and were afraid to go to class. of course, columbia had remote classes at the end because they couldn't protect their jewish

students. i know how important it is that the president of the united states stood up and said, i'm with you. this is unacceptable what has happened to you. willie, i am so glad to hear from jonathan that this was the first of its kind in a speech, just powerfully supporting the jews and striking out against anti-semitism wherever it may be. >> yeah, there are a lot of jewish students that don't feel safe and don't feel seen. jonathan, as you put it a moment ago, president biden said we see you, and even if they are putting classes on zoom and negotiating with people calling for intpauda, and we were talking about a striking picture of speaker johnson, and

congressman scalise is there and hakeem jeffies was there. what does that image mean to the country and to the world? >> i think that image, willie, means everything. look, whether you are a republican or democrat, standing up to hate shouldn't be hard. to see speaker johnson, who doesn't agree with the president on much, and the minority leader jeffries, all there slapping together, and yesterday we were reminded we are all americans and we are all opposed to intolerance. you know, it's interesting, the point about these kids, i mean, again, i sat with penn law school students yesterday who are going to clerk for federal judges, these are not young people like we think about them. these are sophisticated, measured individuals.

by the way, there were faculty members there. one professor, she said in this roundtable, the environment here is hellacious. we need your help. i mean, to hear, you know, a 20-year member of the faculty, craving and seeking some support and protection, that shouldn't be happening -- not just at penn, but anywhere in america. to your point, willie, the bipartisan nature, the education committee was called to testify, i believe, next week. theknow, elise stefanik and members on both sides and answer why are they negotiating with these individuals, many of whom, by the way, are not even students. i went to the encampment yesterday at penn. these are not students. coming up, how to survive the forever election. molly fast has words of wisdom in the long lead up to november, and we need them. she joins us with her latest

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daniels is set to return to the stand tomorrow. i guess for more of this, following hours of testimony yesterday afternoon where she described her relationship with the former president before his time in the white house. nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett reports. >> reporter: former president donald trump finally coming face-to-face with the woman at the center of his criminal trial, stormy daniels. the adult film actress recounting in explicit detail her story of an alleged sexual encounter with mr. trump back in

2006, a story he vehemently denies, but prosecutors allege would have been catastrophic had it come to light before the 2016 election. charges him for doctoring his internal business records to hide how she was ultimately paid off. >> mr. trump, how is it going in there? >> very well. >> reporter: daniels speaking quickly testifying she was invited to a massive hotel suite in lake tahoe, recalling everything from the giant flower arrangement to the pert plus she says was in there trump's toiletry kit. he said you remind me of my daughter because she is smart and blond and beautiful and people underestimate her as well. it's there she says she had sex after a celebrity golf tournament when she was 27 years old, telling the jury, i blacked out, adding, there was an imbalance of power for sure. but i was not threatened. daniels recounting other intimate details, testifying mr. trump told her that he and his wife, melania, slept in separate

beds. the tension in the courtroom not lost on the judge who agreed some parts of daniels' testimony was probably better left unsaid, but warning mr. trump's attorneys during one of several side bars, quote, i understand that your client is upset, but he is cursing audibly and shaking his head visually. i won't tolerate that. the defense requests for a mistrial denied on the spot, leading to a heated cross-examination as mr. trump's lawyer tried to cast doubt on a story daniels has told previously of an unknown man threatening her in 2011. >> and a guy walked up on me and said to me, leave trump alone. forget the story, and then he leaned around and looked at my daughter and said, a beautiful little girl, it would be a shame if something happened to her mom. >> reporter: mr. trump's attorney also questioning her motives now, asking, am i correct that you hate president trump? to which daniels quickly replied, yes. >> let's bring in former assistant district attorney in manhattan and nbc news legal

analyst katherine christian. i just want to focus in on what happened yesterday with you on this. there's been a lot of analysis, did the prosecution overreach, all these details, were they unnecessary, is it going to turn off the jury? a lot of these questions we don't know answers to, but i'm curious was there -- when it comes to details like what was in his toiletry kit, i know that yesterday or the day before this testimony there were certain things that were off limits, certain descriptive potentials that she could bring to the table. were some of these details very relevant in terms of proving that there was a transaction and knowing that the defense would probably try and discredit her on every level? >> the only relevant testimony for ms. daniels' purpose was they had sex, she and mr. trump, and she was paid to not reveal

it publicly. a lot of the things that she was testifying to i call it the icky or as i say to witnesses, tmi, you don't have to talk about that, were really irrelevant and borderline if not prejudicial. you have to be concerned about that as a prosecutor. you want your conviction but you don't want it look what happened with harvey weinstein to be overturned because you overreached. i think as long as the prosecution and their following witnesses, you know, tow the line it should be fine. but her testimony was highly relevant because it explains why, you know, donald trump, you know, had her paid off to make sure that the electorate did not hear this stuff, this salacious stuff. >> right. so i'm saying the details, like what was in his toiletry kit or other things that can prove that this happened, because you even had yesterday donald trump, you

know, saying that's bs, or actually saying the word, you know, mouthing it. you knew that the defense was going to say none of this happened. so it seems like some of it was very relevant -- >> an argument. >> -- meaning -- go ahead. >> an argument made that she was credible because she remembered the details, she remembered the hotel room being huge, more than her own apartment. >> right. >> so that sort of bolsters her credibility, yes, those details. i'm talking about the other things, you know, like what position, the condom and all of that. >> oh, my god. >> but, yes, those details bull bolstered her credibility, i believe. >> when the defense then jumped in what do you see about their approach? i know it's going to continue tomorrow. what are your thoughts about the value of her testimony compared to others that have already taken the stand and others who we might still hear from? how much does stormy's testimony

matter in this and how much opportunity does the defense have to discredit it? >> well, the defense, that's what defense do, and this is a very skilled cross examiner, you can attack a witness with their bias, hostility and prior inconsistent statements. ms. daniels clearly hates trump, is hostile and has clearly inconsistent statements, but that doesn't take away from the story. even if it wasn't true donald trump would not want this story to come out before the election, after the "access hollywood" tape hit. so it was very important that she be given this money and she be hushed up. so that's the theory of the prosecution, it was a conspiracy to promote his election by unlawful means and they concealed the payoff by making the false entries in the business records, because the bottom line, we go back to 34 counts of falsifying business records with the intent to commit or conceal another crime. so, yes, it's pretty salacious,

but it is relevant because it explains why those business records were falsified. >> yep. yep. yep. i get it. nbc news legal analyst katherine christian, thank you very much. let's get to our panel, joining the conversation now we have nbc news national affairs analyst john heilemann, he is a partner and chief political columnist puck. special correspondent at vanity fair molly jong-fast, she is an nbc political analyst and award winning journalist, author and guest curator of the 2024 aspen ideas festival dina brown is back with us, she's got a big announcement later. we will be talking politics with tina as we love to do and jonathan lemire is back with us. just to start off the fourth hour, kind of a summation of the hour of news ahead and the three hours of news that we have had behind us.

porn stars, satin pajamas, wannabe presidents in satin pajamas and wannabe presidents with worms in their brains. >> enough. >> that's all. okay. >> i think -- i think the rfk -- >> you're welcome. >> -- brain-eating worm may even, john heilemann, may even top satin pajamas. >> it does. >> and rolled up forbes magazines, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. i am -- i am going to just throw the floor open to you because i have no idea where it's going to go. >> don't you dare. >> i will just ask you what is the political impact of yesterday's testimony. >> i swear i'm looking at the headline here and i thought you were going to ask me what the political impact of the dead worm in rfk's brain first. >> you can go there first.

>> that was the least surprising news of some of the things that come out of that man's mouth. joe, i heard you earlier today talking about we are where we are with this case. some people like you have thought for a long time and have said you thought it was the weakest case legally and maybe shouldn't have even been filed. i find myself is the same place politically. this is a tawdry thing that's happening, although some of the things that stormy daniels has said publicly in her book, some of the descriptions of things -- the stuff we heard yesterday pale, pale beside some of the graphic details she has brought forward and that have been discussed widely over the past five, six, seven years. we've seen them talked about on late night shows and other places that are just -- i mean, unbelievable the things we heard about a sitting president from stormy daniels in public on the air. but all of it's incredibly tawdry. the trial itself is riveting, it's riveting political and

legal theater. i think everybody who sits around this table and is watching this is -- is riveted. it's a great court case. i mean, this is a docudrama waiting to happen like the great oj series they did a few years ago that came out at the same time as the great documentary. people will watch this some day and it will make for extraordinary television. >> right. >> i have been in and out of manhattan a lot the last month and people were not riveted by politics, people who don't make it their living, are not watching. >> nobody cares. >> they are not the talk of the town in los angeles. >> no. >> in chicago, in dallas. it's not. >> it's exhausting. >> i've been in places where people have been trump obsessed over the last six, seven years. right now this is not what everyone is talking about all over the country and it's hard to extrapolate and at some point we will have data on this, too, but i don't think there are --

my gut still tells me there is not a lot of persuadable voters -- first of all, there are not a lot left in america to begin with -- but persuadable voters, i do not think they are tuned to this frequency right now and so i think the political impact of this -- for those -- for all the rest of us, this has been long ago priced into the stock on donald trump. in terms of politics, the only outstanding variable to me is we do not know what a conviction would do. if donald trump is convicted of these crimes, what will that do politically? no one knows the answer to that question, but in terms of the impact it's having politically as it plays out day to day, we are not seeing movement in the polls and i am not surprised about that. i don't think there are among the smallest sliver of americans who will make up the deciding voters in this election, i don't think people are -- this is not what they're paying attention to right now and i don't think it's having a political impact at all. >> if you look at the newspapers in detroit and in milwaukee and philadelphia, this isn't on the front page of it. tina, my gosh, it reminds me so

much just politically of what happened with bill clinton in '98 and '99. i mean, you know, washington was talking about it, reporters were talking about it, americans are like, eh. they've already priced this into the stock. as was brought up last hour bill clinton's highest approval rating was the day he got impeached. >> all true. i do want to say that i think a worm ate my brain is the most interesting political slogan in this cycle, right? it's a bumper sticker for his campaign and i do hope he's thinking about it. what i think is really incredible about this whole trial is it is like the dog eared tenth season of a really sort of down market tabloid tv show. you call it a docudrama, i call it a total kind of sleaze fest. >> you're classier than i am. >> what is wonderful about it in

a way, it's like a picture of dorian gray. when she -- stormy daniels first encounters trump in 2006 he was at the height of his -- he's silk pa image mad, hugh hefner sitting in this suite. it all gets peeled away as you see the rotten background of it all. the toiletry bag and the condom and by the end of it you're looking at this man in the courtroom who is a morbidly obese, muttering and cursing under his breath, trapped there like a sort of angry caged lion and all such a kind of come down from the great kardashian camelot of trump. it is the tenth season of the tv show and nobody is watching

except for us. of course, not being there when you talk about the great tv it will make, i wish that the cameras were there because it is extraordinary tv that we are not seeing. so that is why of course it hasn't captured the nation, i think otherwise it actually might have done because the characters are just too extraordinary and too compelling. they do remind you of kato kaelin and people like that who appeared at the time of the great o.j. simpson trial, but i don't think it has any impact on his true believers at all. >> strategists with both campaigns agree. theres that unknown about a conviction, we don't know how that will play, but no one right now thinks that this will move too many votes, though from the biden perspective it provides a useful split screen, the former president yesterday in court, the current president delivering a speech about anti-semitism and today heads to wisconsin to open up an ai plant in the exact town in wisconsin, battleground state, where one of trump's big projects fell apart. molly, this is the choice, it is trump versus biden and maybe rfk

jr. and his brain worm. you write in your lastest piece in "vanity fair," you write in part, the post pandemic, post insurrection, political environment is liable to make anyone feel deeply tired and news avoidant. people, after all, are scared. they remember the ill conceived mood around the 2016 election when they were sure that the normal candidate would win and then they didn't. even today, i sometimes get stopped on the street by people wondering if they should set their expectations accordingly. is it going to be all right, they ask, drawing me in closer. the thing is, i can't tell you it's going to be all right because i really don't know. i know what trump promises to do if he gets back in office and i know that it's the stuff of nightmares. and while that might make some voters want to close their eyes, shut their ears and tune politics out of their daily life, the only way we can avoid it is by paying attention so

that what happened in 2016 doesn't happen in 2024. molly, tell us a little bit more about this conundrum because you're right, there is real fatigue about trump, just about this election generally and it's still six months away, but it's the stakes of the election, the stakes couldn't be higher. >> yeah. i mean, i just want to say one thing about this court case. i think that this guy is the evangelicals pick and an adult film star is sitting in a criminal court talking about having sex with him when she was in her 20s. i'm just saying like i don't think we should be so cynical that we think this is completely priced in. look, this is going to be a turnout election. his people are his people but if his people decide not to go and vote, which they might, i mean, we just don't -- there's so many unknowns. but the point of this piece is that we're a full six months away from the election. i don't think we really are going to see the run up until three months and i do think, you know, i had jen palmeri on my

podcast the other day and she's just so knowledgeable and she was talking about the election that she thinks it's the closest to maybe this obama reelect. so i do think there are a lot of really relevant recent historical examples that we can point to, but, yes, it's very scary. i mean, it's not like he's running against mitt romney, he's running against someone who has decided he's been to weaponize and change the entire federal government, he's going to make every branch of it the arm of the trump campaign. that's very scary. >> i do think, strangely enough -- and i won't repeat all the things tina has said so eloquently -- i do think actually weirdly enough, john heilemann, it may end up being the "time magazine" interview, "time magazine" that many people thought like was dead and not relevant, that interview may, in fact, be one of the most interviews and that "time

magazine" issue may be one of the most important pieces of journalism in 2024 because that encapsulates in trump's own words far better than we could ever do what he wants to do in 2025. i suspect that may cut through with exhausted voters, with nervous voters even more than the stormy daniels testimony. >> well, yeah, joe, look, from the biden campaign's standpoint if they had a choice between the nonstop coverage of porn stars and this trial or having nonstop coverage of donald trump saying in his own words what he plans to do if he gets reelected they'd rather hear that latter every day and twice on sunday. i would like to urge any mainstream news organization, nonright wing news organization that gets donald trump to do an interview, please, please, video -- we must have video because that is, i think, joe --

and i'm not being snide about it but i think it's the thing that will help that. we have images of trump talking about what he plans to do if he gets reelected those would be on television all day long and they would crowd out some of the discussion of the tawdriness of stormy daniels and that would be powerful and i think donald trump -- who knows what his campaign now thinks. it's very unclear whether they think that that "time magazine" interview was a faux pas or not or whether they will ever let him sit with another journalist between now and november like the "time magazine" journalist who did that story. i have a question for you politically. here is -- we just all said -- we all agree there is an uncertainty here, an unknowable about what happens if trump gets convicted in this case. what happens if there is a hung jury in this case, joe? in terms of the politics of it, right, donald trump stands up and says i said this was a witch-hunt the whole time, i said this was politically

motivated and now the jury has proven me right. he stands up and crows and claims that he is now vindicated on some level. does that help him in any way with the image that he's trying to put across to the voters that he thinks he needs and wants to get, voters who think donald trump is inn defeatable, he's -- the man did not be knocked down. you can try, throw everything you've got at him but he keeps on ticking. that's an image that he likes for himself. do you think that benefits for him if he gets that hung jury? >> i do. i think it's likely he will get a hung jury in a nation where 77 million americans voted for him in 2020. it will be hard to get all 12 of those jurors to find him guilty of this. and we shall see. and i will say even on appeal i think it's going to be hard if there is a conviction to uphold that. but, you know, we've all seen this before, john, where somebody -- where there's a hung jury and whoever -- whoever is

part of that will go out and they'll start talking about and of course everybody on other news networks and everybody in trump's orbit will go, we told you he was innocent. we've told you all along he was innocent. this was a witch-hunt and i proved it. i mean, you can -- you can finish all those sentences for me. yeah, i think it will to a degree, but, again, we're talking about such a small number of voters in wisconsin, in michigan, in pennsylvania, in north carolina, georgia. the question is -- in arizona -- the question is at the end of the day are they going to care more about that or are they going to care more about abortion or are they going to care, again, about just the shear exhaustion that donald trump brings. so i suspect at the end of the day when they go into the voting booth, especially if this hung jury happens in may or early june, we're going to see just one political lifetime after another unfold before our eyes between june and the first

tuesday of november. mika? >> so, tina, as we mentioned earlier, you've been named the guest curator for the 2024 aspen ideas festival, which is partnering with nbc universal and you've already announced an incredible lineup of guests for the june event and today you are adding yet another person to that list. who is it? >> it is governor gretchen whitmer who will be joining us, which is very exciting. it's already going to be an amazing festival and she only adds, i think, to the topical, you know, depth of this best val. our slogan is bright minds for dark times because we know we're living in these hellacious times. i've tried to approach the festival as an edition of "vanity fair" bringing in the great mix of people. we have a-rod and john legend and we have gretchen whitmer, sam altman. >> so cool.

>> and we've got some really great pairings which i think are going to be interesting. we have the great reverend barber, the theologian from north carolina who has written a fascinating book called "white poverty" and he is going to be interviewed by mitch landrieu. we have cara swisher being interviewed by brian chesky. and maureen dowd who we see as a great political columnist, she is going to be interviewing two great shakespeare scholars about shakespeare in politics. i think it's going to have that delicious sort of rich mix that i tried at any rate to bring to the magazines that i edited and allow -- because the thing is with aspen, you know, it has got this amazing halo, people love to go there, it's the 20th year, you know, started by walter isaacson it's being going with this great pedestrian tree of

intelligence, but you're also competing with hiking, right? you have to seduce the crowd with some of these very provocative conversatons of. for opening night i have bill maher coming, if anyone is going to throw a hand grenade into the aspen audience it will be bill maher, it's always fun to start with that kind of provocation. i think it's going to be really exciting this year, really fun. it's an amazing team. i have had a ball doing it and working with nbc. >> yeah, this is what you do, tina. you are the greatest of all time. this looks like an incredible lineup, i love the diversity of thought there and it just sounds amazing already. the 2024 aspen ideas festival runs from june 23rd to june 29th. author and journalist the great tina brown, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> congratulations already on that and we will see you soon. thank you for coming on. >> thank you so much. all right.

coming up, much has been made of the advent of artificial intelligence, but are we paying enough attention? the former ceo of google does not think so. cnbc's andrew ross tsirkin joins us next to explain that. plus j.k. simmons will be live in studio to talk about his new film "you can't run forever." you can't? all right. we will be right back with that. . raising you was no bed of roses. are you getting me anything for mother's day? go to 1-800-flowers.com.

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obamacare is a disaster, we want to terminate it. >> that would mean over 100 million americans will lose protections for preexisting conditions. >> biden has protected the affordable care act and lowered health care costs for millions by $800 a year. now he will make those savings permanent. >> health care should be a basic right, folks. he's coming for your health care and we're not going to let it happen.

i'm joe biden, and i approved this message. and that is the latest ad just released from the biden/harris campaign entitled "terminate." it will run as part of a new $14 million campaign this month and will air on tv and digital platforms across battleground states. joining us now senior spokesperson for the biden/harris 2024 reelection campaign, adrienne elrod in her new position working for the campaign. joe, it seems like the campaign is on to something here, really doubling down on the damage donald trump has done to women across the country. >> well, not just women. to women, to men, to the old, to the young, to everybody. when donald trump promises he's going to terminate the affordable care act, he's going to terminate obamacare, a program that's getting more popular by the year, i mean, it just -- and you've got him on

tape doing it. you know, adrienne, that ad is so powerful, one, because it's true, and two, because it actually uses donald trump's own words. i mean, we have said here for some time nothing more powerful than using donald trump's own words, bragging about -- what did he say -- terminating roe v. wade, bragging about wanting to terminate the affordable care act, obamacare. i mean -- and i must say and republicans attacking joe biden for trying to save it. republicans attacking joe biden for trying to give women their health care rights back. republicans attacking joe biden for trying to provide student loan relief. it's pretty crazy. >> yeah. >> and this is such -- it's so -- i'm sorry for going on and on, but i will say republicans who compare all of these things to january 6th as they do show their hand.

when they say, well, yeah, january 6th, it may have been bad, but have you seen what joe biden has been doing, trying to provide relief to people with student loans? you sit there going, oh, my god. this party, they're their own worst enemy, aren't they? >> yeah, that's exactly right, joe, and that's why you are going to see throughout this campaign, throughout the next six months, we're really going to make a contrast between the fact that joe biden is fighting for americans, trying to make their lives better, versus donald trump who is focusing on himself, who is focusing on, you know, retribution on his political enemies, revenge on his political enemies, revenge in many aspects on the american people. so this is the contrast you're going to see. as you mentioned, $14 million ad buy across all the battleground states, we also are announcing we're opening 200 offices in the battleground states. in march we announced 150 offices are being opened, now we have 200, over 500 staff in those battleground states.

the biden campaign is laying the infrastructure that will make the difference on election day, that will make the difference in a very close race. we will make sure that every single american in these key states understands what is at stake here in this election, understands that their health care is on the line, understands that their reproductive rights and their reproductive freedom is on the line, their economic freedom is on the line. we will be focused on making sure that that contrast is known. something that, you know, i find i guess not very shocking, but something that's important to highlight is donald trump is not laying this infrastructure in the states, he basically has no offices in battleground states. he is not doing the work that is necessary to win an election. we will be making more announcements coming forward, but this ad you're going to see a lot of, this is going to be the first of many ads on health care you're going to see. it's important to keep in mind that donald trump has been talking about terminating health care for years, well before he

ever ran for president, getting rid of obamacare. we will make sure that every single voter in america is aware of this and understands what's at stake for their lives and their families' lives. >> a couple moments ago the president stepped out of the white house on marine one beginning his journey to wisconsin today. tell us about the trip there, the messaging and why he's going to a particular town that evokes donald trump and the contrast you're hoping to bring to the front. >> well, lemire, i have been listening to you guys talking about sort of the symbolism here we're seeing wisconsin where donald trump in 2017 showed up at fox con, announced that tens of thousands of jobs would be created for wisconsin families. of course, those jobs never materialized. what you're going to see president biden do today is go to that very same site where fox con never really got going and announced that microsoft is electing a $3.3 billion ai

facility which is going to create thousands of jobs for wisconsin families. again, the contrast cannot be more clear. joe biden is delivering on his promises, delivering for the american people. where is -- donald trump is filled with empty promises and he's been sitting in a courtroom all week while joe biden is out there delivering for the american people and talking directly to the american people, going to where they are and delivering on his promises. >> and what with joe biden confronting donald trump either on the debate stage or on a number of these issues, will he be mentioning him by name? will the campaign be going of a trump on a regular basis to try to draw that contrast? is that necessary? >> i think absolutely it is, mika. look, president biden has made it very clear he will be debating donald trump, but when you have donald trump's own words it's also important to keep in mind that we will be continuing to use a paid media

strategy here that uses his own words against him. there's no better way to articulate what donald trump would do in a second term as president than using his own words. and those words are divisive, they're dangerous and they would have devastating consequences on the american people. so you will of course continue to see joe biden making that contrast, but it's very important to keep in mind that we are laying the infrastructure that donald trump's campaign is not. so we can make sure that when we do make that contrast, millions of americans understand why we're coming from and, again, what's at stake in this election. >> senior spokesperson for the biden/harris 2024 reelection campaign, adrienne elrod, thank you very much for coming on this morning. we appreciate it. and still ahead, how much would you pay to live longer? fitness change equinox is offering a membership aimed at improving longevity with a high-end price tag. we are going to discuss that and more with cnbc's andrew ross

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you're one of the most read in people when it comes to the world of ai right now and i think we're all trying to understand really almost if you could stack rank all of these models and all of these companies for us. i think we're all trying to understand who is ahead, who is behind, where does google stand relative to meta with llama, with openai and microsoft. how do you see all of this? >> well, first, i hate to tell you but i think this stuff is underhyped. >> underhyped? >> not overhyped. because the arrival of intelligence of a nonhuman form is really a big deal for the world. >> and you think it's here? >> it's coming, it's here, it's about to happen, it happens in stages. >> how quickly, though?

>> well, we used to say 20 years, now within five. man, i couldn't agree with him more. i, of course, am ignorant in everything that he's brilliant in, but as a generalist, as a man who has lived his life as a generalist, i could not agree more with former google ceo eric schmidt who told andrew ross sorkin that he thinks the public is not actually paying enough attention to artificial intelligence. andrew joins us now. it's so interesting, i was -- i think about this as far as donald trump's election all the time and i'm not -- i'm certainly -- this is just me talking, i'm not projecting my views on to you, but i think as much as we talk about the dangers of donald trump's election, we actually, i think, in a way we can't even begin to imagine the dangers if he gets elected again with a man who has said openly he's going to push

up against every constitutional boundary and try to break them. i feel the same way with ai. again, it's sort of like we've talked about this before in 2007 and 2008, me reading about credit default swaps and going, this just doesn't make sense. i don't -- this just doesn't -- and at the end going, well, i guess i'm just stupid in finance and maybe that's why i can't figure out why you can chop up a lot of really bad loans, put them into a big package and make it something that's digestible. >> right. >> i feel the same way with ai. we can't begin to comprehend the dangers of ai. so, yeah, i couldn't agree with eric schmidt any more than i'm sure you do as well. talk about -- talk about it and talk about what the experts tell us we should do. >> well, i couldn't agree with you more, joe. i think there are really going to be so many down sides to all of this, though i'm hopeful that they create remarkable upsides.

warren buffett also sounded the alarm over the weekend about some of the down sides of ai and just all of the misinformation and fake information and deepfakes and people faking each other that are going to happen. almost how impossible for us to understand what's real and what's not. i think that gets to the very idea of truth that you talk about in the context this have election campaign and what is truth. i think that's very important part of this. >> right. >> and then i think the down side, the economic piece that i -- there's going to be a huge economic boost in the form of productivity or should it, but productivity means that there might be less jobs. i think you're already starting to see it across the board. >> seriously, i mean, the rich are going to get richer, the poor are going to get poorer, the middle class is going to be happened. what happened with the tech revolution, so many great things, it hollowed out the working class. this is unfortunately -- unless we figure it out -- is going to

make matters worse. we're going to do lightning round. >> okay. >> i was given two topics, i've got about 18 and alex is going two minutes. let's go lightning round. disney posts losses. this is the story of our times and it's not just disney. i mean, everybody is struggling with the fact that people are cord cutting, they're relying on streaming and right now they just can't figure out -- not just disney, but everybody -- can't figure out how to make money in this environment. >> well, that's the issue with disney, how quickly can they get to profitability. they're hoping to get to profitability by the end of the year but you have to do some things including, for example, just now removing effectively espn plus from how you do the calculations to get there. so i think there's just that continues, you're also watching just the linear, the revenue coming off of linear television continues to plummet and the question is is there any floor in sight and i think that's also one of the things that is on the

table here. >> plummets for everything but "morning joe" and "squawk box." we only have a minute so you have 30 seconds to talk about "wall street journal" story on tiktok's lawsuit. are they going to succeed or do you think tiktok is going to be banned in the united states if it doesn't get american ownership? >> oh, goodness, i'm taking the gamble that ultimately they may get banned, they might even win this suit, but i think that the national security issues could effectively trump it potentially. we will see. no matter what happens it's going to take a lot longer for this to play out than the idea that they're going to be banned and it's going to end tomorrow. i am sure there will be a lot about whether they're able to sell the company or not. the chinese do not want to sell, to let them sell this company to anybody, they don't want anybody to have this algorithm. you might have to get yourself on instagram or some other social media site pretty soon. >> i find it absolutely

unbelievable that the communist chinese party is able to get college students to walk around, look at tiktok, and call the president of the united states genocide joe when they have concentration camps holding up to 2 million people, but that's exactly what's happening. it is pure, absolute madness that we are letting the communist chinese party shape political debate in america. finally, equinox, they say we can live forever and we only have to pay, well, a steep price for it. talk about that. >> so equinox, this is a true 1% or maybe .1% product, they will charge you 40 grand a year. the idea is you're going to live forever or at least they're going to try to help you with longevity. the $40,000 a year includes just for what it's worth about 16 sessions a month between trainers, physical trainers who you're going to do gym workouts,

massaging, nutrition coaches, they're going to test you all the time. that's what it is and i don't know if we're all going to be on some kind of subscription plan in the future, but that's -- that's what -- that's what equinox is offering as everybody is moving towards trying to live longer, though as you know there is a whole subset of these people they might be competing with ozempic, so we'll see. >> all right. so, listen, let me help everybody out here and say $40,000, this is what you do, number one, you eat well, more protein than carbs. in two, you lift weights, not heavy weights, you lift weights, that helps you. number three, you get up -- up and down off the floor about 20, 30 times like the japanese do. you work on your balance, that stops you from falling, makes you less likely to fall. and voila, there you go, you live longer. and of course you stretch. mika, did i miss anything? >> free advice from dr.

scarborough. >> sleep. >> sleep. >> okay. >> sleep. and mindfulness and you can do yoga and meditate, boom, do you know what, you, too, can live forever. >> thanks, coach and cnbc's "new york times" editor andrew ross sorkin. >> hydrate. >> thank you very much. >> hydrate. >> oh, my god. still ahead academy award winning j.k. simmons. >> people say moisture rise, moisturize go ahead. >> a new thriller he is in. he joins us next on "morning joe." thriller he is in he joins us next on "morning joe. gravis and who are anti-achr antibody positive, season to season, ultomiris is continuous symptom control, with improvement in activities of daily living. it is reduced muscle weakness. and ultomiris is the only long-acting gmg treatment with the freedom of just 6 to 7 infusions per year, for a predictable routine i can count on. ultomiris can lower your immune system's ability to fight infections, increasing your chance

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>> does this man look familiar to you? >> still no word on miranda? >> it's not safe to go into the woods. >> he's armed and dangerous. >> we're organizing a search party. >> where is she? >> calm down. she's not alone. >> she's just a little girl. >> she's about to be a dead little girl. >> he inspired us with whiplash, he made us laugh with burn after reading, and now he's giving us the feel-good hit of the summer. that's part of the trailer of the new movie titled you can't run forever. it depicts a serial killer. the killer wade comes to learn that one family's love may make his killing spree more difficult than he expected. let's bring in jay simmons. i watched the movie, and i got to say about two minutes into it

i go, okay, this is a little different. this is not what i expected. man. talk about -- talk about what drew you to the movie. >> well, the script, as always, is my go-to answer. in this case it was co-written by my wife, so that was also part of the draw. the whole movie is actually a family affair. our daughter is in it, and our son did the score. >> oh, wow. that's amazing. jon. >> our son joe, sorry. our son joe did the score. >> john heilemann. >> another joe. we were talking about this before we started here. you have played an incredibly wide variety of characters, right? i mean, just from an actor of your -- on the scene for this long covers a lot of things. i think of you auz as cuddly, as

juno's dad, fred merts in being the ricardos. is it a particularly -- is there a particular challenge to playing someone who's, you know, one of the most morally degraded spree killer, as bad a human being as you can imagine. is that a particular challenge for an actor, or is it just another part? >> it's a great challenge playing a psychopath is a great way to get out your demons, you know, and i go home at night feeling much more loving and cuddly. >> yeah. >> you did this project with your wife. you have a family where everybody is in the business. was it weird working together? >> it was not weird. it was -- and michelle and i have worked together before. she's written and directed things i've been in and there's a, you know, obviously a comfort level there and kind of a shorthand that even more than a shorthand at times, you know, sometimes it's just a look, you

know, between takes and i go, okay, all right, all right. i know what you want me to do a little bit differently in take two and no words need to be said. >> that's funny, ethan hawke was on the show yesterday and he was talking about the work with his daughter maya. it's amazing how many people in your business end up working with family and end up liking it. my question, your career, as you think back over television, mov what are the three roles that you think of as landmark roles, that changed your career. you think of as most significant. not necessarily your favorite but the moments that kind of changed things for you as a professional. >> a couple of them early on were theater roles. you know, i was a replacement in the original broadway production of "a few good men" and then, you know, 30 years later i'm working with aaron sorkin on "being the ricardos." that role in and of itself was a

real career highlight. juno was another one that was -- that sort of took me from the perception of after 20 years of theater, the first thing that people saw me in was oz, which was -- >> dark. >> to be the kind cuddly juno's dad was a real boon to the way sort of audiences and the business viewed me as an actor, and then the opportunity to work with my wife on her films including this latest one is just, you know, a real great sort of full circle family/business experience. >> will you go back to theater? and how important is theater in your uvra? >> it is. it's been 30 years almost since i was on stage for anything other than a benefit here or there. there's something sort of brewing right now, so it's

possible i'll be back on stage in 2025, and i'm hoping that ends up coming together. >> oh, wow. >> hey, joe, i think you need to go online and look up the pictures of this man and the prep that he did for "the justice league," man, you were jacked. i mean jacked. >> i mean i'm still here. >> he looks -- he looks like arnold schwarzenegger in these pictures i'm telling you. it's not too late for us, joe. it's not too late for us. >> man. come on now. >> when you share the screen with that guy, you got to put in the time in the gym. >> well, listen, we are such huge fans, and we're so gateful that you came on the show and very excited for other people to get out and watch this movie. it's a real thriller. it's called "you can't run forever." it's going to be in theaters and available on demand starting may 17th.

actor and star of the film, j.k. simmons, thank you so much. greatly appreciate it. >> thanks, joe. thank you all. >> that does it for us this morning, ana cabrera picks up the coverage. mika? how long when does she? >> in just 30 seconds. we'll see you tomorrow, everybody. >> we could be on the stage. we're very good at stepping on each other's lines. >> are we live? each other's lins >> are we live n this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it. but pd can be treated even without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today. right now on "ana cabrera reports," breaking news of georgia, an appeals court taking