it is good to be back with you on this second hour of "chris jansing reports." at this hour, scenes of devastation in michigan after tornadoes pommel homes and businesses ripping the sides off a fedex facility and wiping out an entire mobile home park. the risk isn't over. more than 50 million people still under severe weather alerts told. also told, donald trump's battle against the d.a. and his georgia election case. the new development as he tries to get fani willis thrown off the case. plus, another campus crackdown, police moving into clear an encampment at gw university as other schools scramble to salvage graduation ceremonies. the growing fallout. and the cease fire talks underway right now in the middle east. can a deal get done, even with israeli tanks inside rafah. our nbc news reporters are following all of the latest developments and we begin in

michigan with nbc's maggie vespa covering the after math of devastating tornadoes. what are you seeing? what are you hearing from folks on the ground? >> reporter: i mean, chris, i feel like we have been using the word devastation a lot the last few weeks, covering all of the severe spring weather. here we are again. this house is flipped up so i had dune. it landed almost on its roof. we're told by family that a couple in their 60s was inside. their cousin, therese, was trapped inside the home for a couple of hours. her arm sticking out, trying to wave to first responders. firefighters pulled her out. she is miraculously unharmed, completely okay. her husband was tossed out of the house, he has a broken neck. he has been to the hospital and released. he should recover as well. we had three reported tornadoes touch down in the area last

night, ten across the state more broadly. again, this is just the latest round of severe weather to kind of strike the planes, the midwest, and now we know it's all moving east. it turned deadly in oklahoma on monday. we have seen scenes of destruction all over the country. in this scenario, despite everything you see behind me. officials say we haven't had any reports of severe injuries or deaths, but they know this is part of a broader pattern and everyone here is just trying to wrap their minds around the fact that they are the latest ones hit. chris. >> i can't wrap my mind around the story you just told, it's miraculous that those folks are okay, and it's good to hear. thank you. nbc's blayne alexander is in atlanta for us, so what's happening there? >> reporter: this certainly won't make the case move faster. essentially what we learned is that donald trump and codefendants are now going to have an appeals court hear their

position, their attempts to try and get fani willis thrown off the case. you'll remember a fulton county superior court judge said she can stay on the case, as long as wade resign. the georgia court of appeals is going to be hear that and trump will have another opportunity to get her thrown off the case. it's important to put in perspective, we have seen other matters related to this georgia interference case go before the georgia court of appeals, most notably mark meadows. he was trying to get this whole thing move to federal court. the appeals court said we'll hear the case, and then they shut down the request. just because of course it's going to be heard before the appeals court doesn't guarantee an outcome. certainly it is good news for trump and his team that it is going to be heard for appeal today. chris.

>> blayne alexander, thank you. well, security is tight today on the campus of the university of southern california, as usc tries to salvage its graduation ceremonies after all of those protests. nbc's liz kreutz is live on campus. what is happening there today? >> reporter: hey, chris, well, the scaled back graduation celebrations are getting underway today. this of course after usc game the first university to cancel its main commencement ceremony that was scheduled for friday. today through friday, each individual college on campus will be hosting their own graduation ceremony, so we are seeing students here in their cap and gowns, coming with their families, taking pictures here. one of the events happening today, a graduation is for the education school here, and i sat down just moments ago with the dean of that school. two of the speakers who were supposed to speak at the graduation backed out in protest with how the university has handled demonstrations here. the dean, interestingly, he 40

years ago was at uc berkeley, the leader of the student group pushing for the south africa apartheid movement to getting the university to divest from south africa apartheid. they were successful. i asked him what he thinks of this movement now, and here's what he had to say, take a listen. >> it does take courage. many of them are willing to risk being expelled from the university or lose their jobs. that is not a decision that's taken lightly. at the same time, i think it's important for them to organize others, to educate others about what they're doing, why they're doing so they're not isolated. >> reporter: now, it continues to be so tense across campuses nationwide. overnight we saw video from george washington university where law enforcement stormed into an encampment there, broke up that encampment, used pepper spray to disburse the crowd.

we have seen students at the rhode island school of design, barricading themselves inside a building and tense clashes at university of massachusetts amherst at the fashion institute of technology in new york where there have been arrests. we're seeing crackdowns continue on campuses as these graduations begin. at usc, it's tense here, and there's a lot of security. they have ramped up security and students have to actually scan their i.d. badges, even have some of their bags checked at times to get on campus. no one is allowed. media not allowed. just people with the i.d. badge can get on campus right now. liz kreutz, thank you. gaza cease fire are in negotiations, which is where we find hala gorani. >> reporter: the country is frustrated that the u.s. has suspended arms shipments to israel, that included 2,000 pound bombs that israel has been using in the last seven plus

months in military operations in gaza. this is happening as aid shipments of humanitarian supplies and fuel and medical equipment have been halted with the rafah border crossing between egypt and gaza remaining closed after the israeli military sent tanks and reoccupied that area between the two countries. and the karim shalom crossing to the east. israeli officials promised it would reopen but palestinian sources are telling us it has not opened yet. it is all happening against the backdrop of intense negotiations, to try to get to some sort of cease fire agreement between israel and hamas. there are still gaps between the two sides. and bill burns, the cia chief and a veteran diplomat has been in israel today, trying to get that deal over the line in meetings with the israeli prime minister, benjamin netanyahu. in the meantime, we are hearing that inside of gaza, dozens of

people have been killed as the israeli military continues its offensive. one of our sources who have spoken to our crew inside of gaza has said that there have been nonstop bombing attacks since this morning there. back to you. >> hala gorani, thank you. in 90 seconds, the judge's warning to donald trump for what he was saying during stormy daniels' testimony, plus, what to expect when the adult film star returns to the stand tomorrow. returns to the stand tomorrow t safelite. this customer had auto glass damage, but he was busy working from home... ...so he scheduled with safelite in just a few clicks. we came to his house... then we got to work. we replaced his windshield... ...and installed new wipers to protect his new glass. >> customer: looks great. thank you. >> tech: my pleasure. >> vo: we come to you for free. schedule now for free mobile service at safelite.com. ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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it's clear now that the gloves are off at donald trump's hush money trial, with stormy daniels back on the stand tomorrow, both sides are dealing with a courtroom that is now in some ways reflecting the defendant, angry, bombastic, and at times, crude. after what the "washington post" describes as a day of rage, court transcripts now show that judge merchan called trump's lawyers to the bench to warn that he is cursing audibly and he is shaking his head visibly, and that's contemptuous. it has the potential to intimidate the witness and the jury can see that. the judge also suggested that daniels was difficult to control, giving graphic testimony that will continue tomorrow about what she says was a sexual encounter at a golf tournament in 2006, a meeting that as "the new york times" puts it, should shape american

history. with the stakes and emotions so high, and given that this is not a case about sex, but about financial records, what do lawyers do now? joining me is veteran journalist, jacob weisburg with the outlet pushkin, one of the first journalists to speak with stormy daniels in 2016 when he was editor and chief at "slate," and also with us, yasmin vossoughian, she was actually in the courtroom for daniels' testimony. good to have both of you here. jacob, i noted in an interview, you said that while stormy daniels' testimony was remarkably consistent to what she told you back in 2016, in terms of the facts, you think her feelings have changed. tell us your impressions. >> yes, the story she told about her encounter with donald trump is the same story she told me in 2016, down to all the details, except there are some more details she didn't tell me back then. but back then, her attitude towards it was that it was no

biggie. she didn't like him, and it wasn't a positive experience, but at that point, she wasn't saying it affected her negatively or she was upset about it. and i think as she's had time to process it and she's certainly well within her rights to change her feelings about what happened, she feels more negative about it. i think she didn't used the term coercion, but wished it didn't happen. didn't know why she was there, and regrets it. >> there is this ongoing debate about exactly what her testimony was, whether she said too much. not just locally, but emotionally. right? several observers have written about how it had echoes of some sexual assault cases that they have covered. although this is not. let's say it, a sexual assault case. she has always said this was consensual. but jessica bennett surprised

it. she blacked out, and lay naked. she felt like the room moved in slow motion. she said she fumbled with her shoes, gold heels, she had troubled fastening because her hands were shaking so hard. to the point of the mistrial that was asked for but not granted, what were your observations, particularly about the jury as she was describing this, and also donald trump. >> can we take a moment and remind folks that when i was sitting in the courtroom, this was being described and the former president of the united states was sitting 8 feet away from stormy daniels when she talked about that alleged night that took place in 2006. two rows behind him was his son, boris epshteyn, as focused as we were, on the google doc we

follow, very closely every single day, the jury was intently focused on her testimony. i mean, their bodies were turned towards her as she recounted every hour, every minute of that day, from the moment in which they met. the issue with some of her testimony, though, when it comes to the jury was after that night in 2006, that allegedly she said that they had sex. it was the recounting of the moments in which she was in the parking lot and says she was approached, and she was threatened and she was scared. it was the recounting of when she decided to share her story, why she decided to share her story, and part of the reason that i recognized that was happening with the jury that they were kind of losing attention. and not necessarily empathizing, it seemed with her, was because they were taking cues from the judge, it seemed, and judge juan merchan continuously chided her. i'm sure as you saw in the document, there were moments, many moments in which there were objections and judge merchan

said sustained. at one point he said sustained without an objection, and all of this was because he felt as if she was kind of droning on, and giving more extraneous information that was not necessarily needed for her testimony. >> at what point did donald trump make the kind of comments that juan merchan sent his lawyers to the bench. >> i'm looking at the back of his head, and he's four to five rows ahead of me. i saw a lot of talking to todd blanche, moments in which there was a bench meeting, and bove would talk to the former president, likely bringing him up to speed as to what was happening and why there was a bench meeting called. he seemed at times to be more animated. in jury selection, in the early days of the testimony of the trial, the former president was not as involved. we had some of that reporting saying his eyes were closed. at one point, i'm closing my beautiful blue eyes, trying to think about how to make the country great again.

paraphrasing there. nonetheless, he was very involved in this testimony. he seemed to be watching her testimony from a monitor that is in front of him, just so you know, she can't necessarily see him. there is like 2 feet of kind of wall between where she is and testifying and where donald trump is. she has to look around the corner, and when she was asked, do you see the defendant in this room, donald j. trump, yeah, i see him, she looked around and joking about it and pointed around the corner. i couldn't see the moment in which he was using those remarks and the reason why it was. >> he talked a lot, you said, at least to his lawyers. >> he talked a lot. >> this is the first time that stormy daniels has been face to face with trump in years. observers say she was nervous. we know from looking, following the doc that she spoke so quickly, the judge asked her several times to slow down. does anything about the demeanor surprise you? does she sound like the person who you talked with? >> well, very much so.

i think the difference is she would like to be seen now as a kind of whistleblower who did this because donald trump did something bad that she wanted to expose, and that's the one place where her testimony didn't really match my experience. i think she wanted to sell her story in 2016. and my impression is she was indifferent whether she sold it to the press or sold it to michael cohen to kill this. she thought the story had value, and she sort of bridled when that was brought up by the defense at the end of the trial, and i don't think that's exactly what happened. you know, there is a very hard line that judge merchan has to draw here between what does a jury need to know to understand what donald trump wanted to cover up, why he paid hush money. he paid hush money because it happened. when does it cross over into details that are prejudice, ie

stormy daniels saying this is a disgusting old man, and i don't want to say unsee, but you can't get the mental image out of your head. that is a tough line. she wasn't going to draw it nor does she have to draw it. it's up to the defense to object and the judge to say that goes over the line. >> looking to tomorrow, i want to ask about her demeanor because one of the things that she and the prosecution clearly wanted to get across, she's not just a porn star. she's a businesswoman. she's a mother. she's a director. a survivor, right? what does that part of her, do you think, bring to the table tomorrow. she's going to have had 24 hours to have taken a breath. the jury is going to have had 24 hours to take a breath. the lawyers have 24 hours to think about where they are with this. what are you looking for in her

demeanor and what we might see? >> we saw this with the defense, they're going after her credibility. i would agree, it seemed as if she was taking the stance of a whistleblower, with the defense, when she was being cross examined by susan necheles. the jury was empathizing more with her, which i think is rare in trials like this, we have never seen something like this before, was empathizing more with her in moments where she seemed to be a whistleblower, versus the moments in which she was in direct with the people's lawyer talking mainly about kind of what happened back in 2006 and who she is, and what is she about. i think part of that is because she was playing so much to the jury, which i don't think the jury necessarily appreciated. she was joking to the jury, kind of trying to get them to laugh at certain things throughout. so i expect hard cross-examination, continuing

with susan necheles. she went after her hard. i don't think it came through in the documents. it cannot come through. redirect, we can expect, using the former president's words against him, and i only say this because they tried to use stormy's words against her, right, in the moment we talked about the tweet. she said, he called it, you know, called that to me first. he called me a name first. and i expect them to do the same thing in this redirect against him with stormy on the stand. >> yasmin vossoughian, jacob weissberg, thank you very much. still to come, what nbc news and online sleuths discovered about an online injury campaign. we'll show you the video from january 6th. plus, nearly two years after the ftx collapse, there's a plan to pay back the victims billions, plus interest.

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a new hire by the rfk junior campaign is causing controversy today. his name is zach henry. he's a right wing influencer who first made waves for dismissing the january 6th attack as a democratic misdirection. now photos and videos uncovered by nbc news and online sedition hunters reveal henry himself was on the grounds of the capitol during the attack. joining me now, nbc's ryan

reilly and msnbc contributor and editor at large for the bullwork, charlie sykes. what do we know about henry and what was he doing there that day? >> what's interesting about this is actually the role he was playing in arizona as the gop spokesperson there, we saw a couple of weeks now that a lot of the fake electors from arizona have now been indicted in arizona, and actually there's a video at the center of that indictment that was filmed at the republican party headquarters there involving the fake electors signing that document. it was posted to the account and zach appears to have been running the account at that time, and, you know, there's another sort of right wing influencer who he runs into at the capitol or near the capitol on january 6th who calls the account spicy. in the lead up to january 6th, that account was posting some pretty out there things, some pretty outrageous things about people being willing to die on behalf of donald trump, whether

they're willing to put up the fight to keep donald trump in office and you cut to january 6th itself, when that account is posting images from the capitol, from the restricted grounds of the u.s. capitol. they were able to mash up the video that was posted by the az gop account and find that exact same moment in another video, and you actually watch him, you see on the screen there, make the same movements at the same time. so he makes that cut to the left, and the video makes that cut to the left, and then he does a full 360 spin, so some pretty strong evidence. when i tried talking to zach yesterday, he sort of did not want to acknowledge being on the grounds of the capitol that day, and said he admitted he was in d.c. but would not admit being on the grounds of the capitol or say where or how close he was to the capitol. there's no evidence he entered the building or committed violence that day. and this isn't something that would necessarily be something that would rule you out of republican campaigns.

of course if you're working for someone who used to hold themselves out as a democrat, being at the january 6th and supporting all of these false allegations about the 2020 election might be something that would raise a few eyebrows, chris. >> and we reached out to the rfk jr. campaign, and they are not commenting on this. is it difficult to make a decision as a campaign, having someone working for the campaign who there are pictures of him on january 6th or on the capitol? >> it's not difficult at all to be able to make a decision like that. it's very interesting, by the way, another flavor and active journalism from ryan here, you know, you're clearly talking about a hard core maga activist, why does he want to work for rfk jr. because he's clearly thoroughly maga and why would rfk jr. want to hire a right wing influencer who down played

january 6th. i think this is one of those personnel decisions that tells you a lot about rfk junior's campaign, and the kind of issues he's going to make and who he really, what voters he really wants to appeal to. >> i also want to ask you, charlie, about new reporting from suzanne craig from the "new york times," and i had not seen this before, that rfk jr. said his doctors found a dead worm in his brain. he said his doctors believe an abnormality on a scan was caused by a worm that got into his brain and ate a portion of it and then died. he told the times he was treated, has no after effects. he refuses to release his medical records. for a candidate who has made vitality and health kind of a central contrast as part of his campaign, could this hurt? a spokesperson says to even ask about it is a joke.

that it's a joke to be concerned about this. >> i am not a doctor, i am not a brain surgeon, but i would say that presidential candidates who acknowledge they have actual brain worms was not on my bingo card for 2024. i think the year was weird enough without all of that. it is a strange story, and i certainly don't want to make light of it. when i first saw the headline, my reaction was is this in the onion or the "new york times"? >> we have a lot of that, and we wish a good health to all of the candidates, and i'll leave it at that. ryan reilly, who does keep making that crazy movement toward being a real journalist, we love you for it, ryan, charlie, you're staying with me. customers who lost $8 billion in the ftx crypto collapse are now expected, believe it or not, not just to get their money back, but also interest. all of this after the company's cofounder, sam bankman-fried,

who famously was convicted of fraud last year and sentenced to 25 years in prison. cnbc's mckenzie following this for. not something we see often for people to get their money back. >> there are two categories of people owed money, the customers accounted for in the reimbursement plans, and then you have steph curry, kevin o'leary, and the ontario teacher's pension plan. they held shares of ownership in the company itself, and then you've got former users of the exchange, 98% of them are getting around 118% of the amount that they're due, paid out in cash if this proposal goes through. but, chris, important caveat here, ftx is valuing the crypto holdings of those customers when the exchange filed for bankruptcy in november of 2022

when bitcoin was trading at around $16,000. it's up 300% since then, so a lot of customers are upset because they feel like they're getting short changed. >> so how did ft x's new team manage to come up with this money? >> ft x's new ceo who led the enron bankruptcy proceedings has been working with this team to track down missing assets, claw back cash and liquidate everything he can from luxury property, bought with customer money to digital tokens. the crypto market has surged since the exchange went bankrupt two years ago. the solano coins are worth $1.1 billion right now, and invested customer money into venture investments, including spacex and the popular ai start up, they sold their stake in the ai firm for $900 million, nearly doubling its money. >> mackenzie sa gol is, what a

fascinating story. is the race to become trump's running mate a real live version of "the apprentice," but first. the olympic frame is on its own, it arrived by ship after an 11 day journey from greece. after a big ceremony tonight with 150,000 spectators, the torch will make 400 stops in france, to paris. and that's where the cauldron will be lit. the exact location is being kept top secret until the day itself. has to be the eiffel tower, right? ceremony is 79 days away and counting. and counting ne to your routine. new science shows listerine is 5x more effective than floss at reducing plaque above the gumline. for a cleaner, healthier mouth. ahhhhh. listerine. feel the whoa!

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today, a mystery remains, with just 68 days until the republican convention, who will be his running mate. former speaker kevin mccarthy has thoughts. >> i think trump's going to play this like "apprentice," he's going to play it out. he's going to make you join truth, make you follow it, and whoever you think is in the lead, somebody's going to come up from behind. it's going to make great television. >> another take from msnbc columnist, charlie sykes who in our how to win 2024 news letter

argues that trump's search is pure cringe, with potential running mates showing they are willing to throw out history, common sense, and basic decency. charlie sykes with me, along with john kasich, former republican governor of ohio, and msnbc analyst. expand on your thought, what do you mean by pure cringe? >> well, i mean, look what they had to do as part of the audition, part of the vp apprentice show that kevin mccarthy is talking about. they have to mimic donald trump's every bit of rhetoric. they have to prove that they are also election denialists, marco rubio is refusing to say he wouldn't move out of florida. you have elise stefanik, attacking the special prosecutor, and adopting donald trump's use of the word hostage to describe the january 6th rioters. the ghost of mike pence haunts all of this because donald trump just does not want to go through

having another vice president. by the way, the one person he can not fire, someone who might have vestiges of conscience, who might say no at a crucial point. it's not just loyalty that he's looking for. he has to find somebody who is willing to do absolutely anything. and what you see is each of these candidates lined up saying, i'm willing to do the nastiest, dirtiest things. i'm willing to overturn elections. in kristi noem's case, i'm willing to shoot a puppy, as evidence of my willingness to make tough decisions. complete cringe. >> that gives us a lot to talk about. governor kristi noem has had a tough time lately with the story that won't go away. her own revelation that she shot her puppy and on fox business ed -- yesterday, she was asked about donald trump. >> since the dog story emerged recently. >> yes, i talk to donald trump often, absolutely, and i will

tell you one thing, he needs somebody who will help him win. >> did you bring up the dog with trump. >> enough, stewart. this interview is ridiculous what you're doing right now. you need to stop. let's talk about real topics that americans care about. >> i'm afraid we're out of time. >> of course we are. >> even donald trump agrees, governor, that she has had a rough couple of days. is she done, and why? why, why, why? >> come on, chris. she's out there saying she shot a dog, and i guess some other animal, and i mean, that's just too much. >> a goat. >> yeah, a goat. so i think she's out. i think what is shocking to me, not shocking but what is disappointing to me is if you want to be his running mate, you have to say you're not sure that you'll abide by the results of the 2024 election.

i don't like that one little bit, and secondly -- >> can i interrupt for just one second. >> sure. . >> just yesterday, we just played kristi noem, but just yesterday, you know, when the candidates go out, they do interviews with the local tv anchors as i knew well in albany, new york. he's in pennsylvania. tough questions from the local anchor there, including about accepting the 2020 election results. here's what he said. >> it would have been a terrible thing. you have to get the election straightened out. you have to have fair and free elections, and if you don't, you should always have the right to challenge them. you actually have to follow your heart. you have to do what's right. >> it would have been a terrible thing to accept the election results according to donald trump in may of 2024, so is there anything to conclude from that other than his vp will also have to be an election denier? >> well, what you get concerned about, chris, is what happens if

he does not win this election, and what is he willing to say, and what are his supporters willing to do? we can't predict that. i don't know. but it's cause for great concern. >> even when he beat hillary clinton, he complained, he talked about that there were irregularities, he should have won bigger. >> look, all i can tell you is this idea that we're not going to accept election results is a fundamental undermining of the election process, and what we have been built upon, and as you know, and we all know. there was a time when richard nixon could have challenged john kennedy in the 1960 election. we know what john kerry, not john kerry, but al gore, i have actually talked to al gore about how he felt when that election was ultimately decided, i mean, in florida, and the debate that was going around that. but, you know, he chose to put the country first, and what we're hearing now, the bar has

been lowered, chris. used to be the bar was up here. unfortunately, in politics, we have seen it lowered. my concern, we have seen it lowered in a number of areas. we need some sort of an awakening in this country to get the bar back up, based on the values the country was founded on. >> we've only got a minute. what does it mean for this election, if both the republican nominee and his vice president running mate deny election results? >> well, and that will be the litmus test throughout the republican party. governor kasich is absolutely right. i think people ought to be very concerned about the after math of this election. there's no chance that donald trump will graciously concede that he was defeated. what does that mean for the post election period? what will he tell his followers. for donald trump, you know, he's faced with a binary choice.

he wins the presidency or goes to jail. that's a desperate man and desperate people do desperate things. that poses a real threat to the country after the election. >> one last thing, think about this, think about this. maybe he'll declare that he's running in 2028. maybe we're going to have him for a lot longer. who the heck knows, we'll see, chris. >> maybe you'll declare you're running in 2028. >> who knows. >> with you as my running mate, why not. >> former governor john kasich, charlie sykes, thank you, both. we have a reminder, for headlines and analysis heading into the presidential election, you really want to subscribe to the "how to win" news letter, scan the qr code on your screen, and it will be delivered to your inbox. still to come, the agonizing 214 day ways for families of hostages in gaza, a father whose son was kidnapped by hamas, shares his thoughts on the tense

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families for the release of hostages, one sign reads, no to rafah, yes to a deal now. joining me now is jonathan, whose son, an american israeli is being held hostage by hamas. thank you so much. first, what was your reaction to the rejection of that deal? >> well, i'm not sure that the way you're presenting it is that accurate. the fact of the matter is that we were pleasantly surprised when our government, our cabinet, sent israeli negotiators back to cairo, and that in and of itself tells us though these aren't the senior negotiators, the more working group level, shows us there is a willingness, whatever the rhetoric coming out of the prime minister's office, there is a willingness to continue negotiating, and it was really only one way to complete a

negotiation, and that is to sit at the table, although there are no direct talks with hamas, to sit at a table and to finish them. so as long as there is communication still going on, i think it's a little premature to declare this latest attempt to strike a deal as over. >> well, you are correct in that the israeli negotiating team is staying in egypt for further talks after cia director bill burns met today with benjamin netanyahu to discuss this push for a hostage release, a cease fire deal. so what is your message to them, and do you think the u.s. is doing enough? >> well, i have no doubt, and i think i can speak here for the families of the eight u.s. hostages still being held by hamas that from the very beginning of this horrific saga in the middle of october, we have had no doubt that the biden administration is totally committed to getting all of the

hostages home, not just the u.s. citizens but all now 132 hostages, and getting them back home to israel. and so, i mean, the proof is the pudding and cia director bill burns has been in the middle east for much of the time between october 7th and today. various other senior administration, biden administration officials have been shuttling around the area. so i think they're totally serious with wanting to get a deal done, both for the hostages themselves, and also for the good of the region and the people of gaza because the only way the fighting stops, and we've known this from the get go, the only way the fighting can stop and the killing can stop is boy these hostages being released. in a perfect world, hamas would have done that long ago, that hasn't happened, nor is it going to happen. this is the route that we have, continuing negotiations with a

horrific terrorist organization, but that's who's on the other side. >> we're almost out of time. i want to ask you, for people who have either moved on or just haven't been paying close attention to this story and understanding that this is your lived experience for more than 200 days, what would you want them to know about what this must be like for your son and the other hostages, what it's like for those of you who love them. >> well, it's a living hell, quite honestly. for the last -- for the last seven months, we have not known whether our loved ones are alive or dead. hamas has not allowed any outside visits whatsoever. we do know from the released hostages that came out in late november, early december, that conditions are deadly, in fact, and continue fighting

aboveground certainly does not help in terms of the safety of the hostages who are being held in hamas terror tunnels. i would want the world to remember, certainly your viewers in the united states, that 45 americans were murdered by hamas in the attack on october 7th. 12 u.s. citizens were taken hostage. 8 remain. 5 living and 3, unfortunately, deceased, murdered on october 7th. and this is an american issue. this is an international issue. there are citizens of 20 different countries being held by hamas, ripped from their homes, ripped from an outdoor concert. and if hamas is allowed to succeed, one can have their opinions about israel's conduct of the war, and obviously there's been a terrible loss of life on the palestinian side, but if hamas, a radical islamic fundamentalist terror group is

allowed to succeed, meaning it does not surrender the hostages or the hostages, all of them, die in hamas custody, that's a very bad sign for the rest of the world, and i fear not just for israel but for the region, for the world as a whole, what signal that is going to send to radical groups everywhere, that people can be ripped from their homes, held hostage with immunity, it would seem and decide to do whatever they feel like doing with these hostages. this has to end, not just for the good of the hostages, the families who are desperately awaiting them to come home but for the people of gaza. there's no hope for them either until the hostages are released. >> jonathan, we thank you for taking the time to talk to us to keep this story alive. thank you, much appreciated. >> thank you for having me. that's going to do it for us this hour.

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good to be with you, i'm alex witt in for katy tur. will donald trump's hush money case be the only trial we see before the election. big developments out of georgia and florida make it look more