together. as you said, maybe this is the only trial between now and the election. let's say trump is convicted. maybe this trial is not as serious, quote, unquote, as some of the other legal problems he faces, but it is still a conviction. do you think it'll matter at all? >> i do think it would matter. look, i think if you are joe biden and if you are democrats, you shouldn't bank on that outcome. we have no idea actually. all it's going to take is one juror for a hung jury. but i do think it would matter. you know, i say pray as if it all depends on god. work as if it all depends on you. this shouldn't factor into the strategy of democrats, but if there is a conviction, then that's good news for you. >> democrats not banking on it. even if it moves the race at margins, a point or two, that might make the difference. senior columnist for "the daily beast," matt lewis, thank you so much. we'll talk soon. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with

us on this tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. >> then we got to the porn starriness. trump's defense, i never slept to stormy daniels and didn't pay her to be quiet. michael cohen paid her to be quiet. he's such a great guy who i hope is torn apart by wild dogs. and i only paid him what i thought were legal fees. if i did anything at all, i did everything, which i didn't do, to protect my wife from finding out about the things i never did. >> stephen colbert. we'll go through the consequential day in court in donald trump's hush money trial with his former fixer and attorney michael cohen on the stand. it will continue today. we'll have expert legal analysis on the testimony and what we should expect in a few hours. also ahead, we'll go through major developments in gaza. israel's military battling regrouped hamas terrorists in the north while weighing a full-scale assault on rafah in the south.

plus, the latest from ukraine and the surprise visit today by u.s. secretary of state antony blinken. this comes as russian president vladimir putin is set to make a state visit to china later this week. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, may 14th. with us, the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. bbc news' katty kay. pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson. good morning to you all. joe, a very busy morning. i can tell you, there's a lot to watch today in new york city, but mainly for a lot of us, it's a pivotal game at madison square garden at 8:00. >> there's no doubt about it. we could talk about a lot of news today, but for most new yorkers that are sports fans, you included, willie, it's the knicks. as those of us outside of the greater, well, tristate area, it's the great pumpkin.

let me tell you, every spring, new york knicks fans tell you the great pumpkin rises from the patch in the east and brings toys and goodies to all good boys and girls, only to wake up the next morning and have their hearts broken. i don't know. maybe this year, willie, will be different. are you going tonight? >> i'm not going, but i will be locked in and borderline comatose tomorrow morning, having stayed up late to watch the game. >> yeah. >> i will say, though, we've learned over the last, i don't know, 51 years, not to actually expect too much in the spring from our team. this year has felt different because of jalen brunson, because of this team. they were blown out of the building in indiana. what's worse, they're hurt. they look exhausted. they've been through a long season undermanned. let's see if they can big deep. the crowd will be behind them. they have to win tonight. don't want to go back to indiana

down 3-2. you know what? this team has given us reason to believe all season, so i will continue to believe in jalen brunson and the nova boys. >> i'm not traditionally a new york sports fan, other than joe namath's new york jets. there is something undeniably cool about the knicks or the rangers doing well. the knicks especially doing well at madison square garden. for those of us of a certain age, madison square garden, that is where everything happened. whether you talk about the knicks in the early '70s, the fight of the century which, by the way, was billed the fight of the century in 1971. and ended up being the fight of the century. ali/frazier. man, if the knicks could play well in madison square garden,

how exciting that would be for all sports fans. >> look, i will be rooting for the knicks. i don't have a dog in this fight. i'm not usually a huge knicks fan or a huge pacers fan, but, boy, you know, it's so great in the garden when they're playing well. >> it is. >> spike lee is there. you know, the crowd is just crazy. >> yeah. >> it's unlike any other place. it's a moment. tonight would be a real moment because the knicks are so beat up. i mean, there are hardly any of them left. do they have ten guys who they can put out on the court? it is just amazing. >> yeah. >> jalen brunson is just a superstar as far as i'm concerned. i hope they can do it. we need a willis reid moment. >> can i jump in? >> of course. >> i'm taking notes because i'm off to l.a. to interview magic

johnson, as one does. >> no way! >> yes, seriously. >> that's amazing. >> that's why i won't be on the show on thursday. anyway, look, you've given me a whole lot to talk about, so this is great. as you know, my starting level is, like, somewhere under the table here. this is very helpful, guys. thank you. >> i love that. >> one team, knicks, n-i -- yeah, got it. >> talk a lot about the boston celtics, and they'll be fine when you talk to magic. >> yeah. we have a lot to talk about in news today, willie. i have to say one thing, willie, jumped out to me today. it's so strange. you have all of these people protesting in support of hamas. there is a "new york times" story that talks about just how oppressive. secret files show hamas spying on its people. how oppressive and what total tyrants hamas was when they ran gaza. again, something you don't usually hear in the media. you certainly don't hear those

college campus protests. how unpopular hamas was inside of gaza. they didn't broker any dissent. they followed people around. they spied on their personal lives. of course, as we all know, but nobody talks about, if there was any dissent at all, you'd end up with a bullet in the back of your head if you were a palestinian or pushed off a building. this story begins to tell the truth about hamas, but i must say, news coverage overall over the past six months has been deplorable. they haven't pointed out what david french has pointed out. hamas and isis really the same. the fact that american college students have gone out in support of a force that's the moral equivalent of isis shows just that hillary clinton is right.

so many of them had no idea who they were cheering on. >> you don't have to wonder, either. this is interesting reporting but not surprising to most people who know anything about hamas and the way they've run gaza, or if you woke up to hamas on october 7th and seen the videos, read the stories, heard the details, the horrifying accounts of what happened that day, that's pretty much all you need to know about hamas. in fact, what it has done to its own people, as detailed in the story. we'll talk more about that in our next segment with richard engel reporting live from the region. we will begin here in new york. michael cohen returning to the witness stand later this morning after testifying for more than six hours yesterday. nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett has a recap of the day in court. >> reporter: a highly-anticipated courtroom showdown. prosecutor's star witness, michael cohen, president trump's self-described fixer turned fierce critic, told the jury he

paid off an adult film actress before the campaign. everything required trump's sign-off, cohen told the jury. testifying, trump was furious in 2016 when he learned daniels was still trying to sell her story of sex with the former president. telling cohen, "i thought you had this under control." cohen explaining he'd managed to suppress daniels' story years before, but it resurfaced on the heels of the "access hollywood" tape. cohen feared if daniels went public, it would be, quote, catastrophic for the campaign. saying, mr. trump told him, just take care of it. this is a disaster. women are going to hate me. guys may think this is cool, but this is going to be a disaster for the campaign. cohen said mr. trump told him he met daniels at a golf tournament, describing her as a beautiful woman. mr. trump has denied he had sex with daniels and pleaded not guilt toy the charges of illegally disguising his

reimbursement checks to cohen on the books and records. the defense arguing cohen was his attorney at the time, handling a personal matter to avoid family embarrassment. hope hicks previously testifying trump didn't want newspapers with details of a hush money payment with a different woman delivered to their home. but cohen saying trump wasn't concerned about melania's action. he wasn't thinking about melania. this was all about the campaign. cohen adding, mr. trump told him, "i want you to push it out as long as you can. just get past the election, because if i win, it will have no relevance. if i lose, i don't even care." cohen testifying he told mr. trump he would pay daniels as part of a non-disclosure agreement, opting to use money from a home equity line of credit. mr. trump was appreciative. saying words to the effect of, "don't worry. you'll get the money back." the state trying to show that

daniels' payoff wasn't isolated but part of a pattern. cohen admitting he secretly recorded his client while they discussed repaying the "national enquirer," which purchased the story of another woman who said she had sex with mr. trump, which he denies. >> the financing which will be -- >> what financing? >> i'll have to pay him something. >> reporter: prosecutors presented no direct evidence that mr. trump or anyone falsified business records, so cohen's credibility here key. telling jurors, mr. trump never used email because too many people have gone down once prosecutors obtained their emails. cohen now a disbarred attorney for lying under oath, the defense argues he's out for revenge after not getting a job in the white house. cohen testifying he would have liked to have been considered for white house chief of staff for his, quote, ego. >> there's no fraud here.

there's no crime here. this is four weeks of keeping me from not campaigning. >> laura jarrett reporting there. let's bring in former litigator and msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin. good morning. good to see you. >> morning. >> michael cohen in no uncertain terms explicitly describing how this went down. directly ordered by trump to send the check, quoting donald trump as saying, "just do it." apologies to nike. what did we learn yesterday from michael cohen. >> cohen testified to a number of conversations he had privately with donald trump or with other participants, sometimes with david pecker, for example, other times with allen weisselberg. again and again, michael cohen showed, when he said he made the payments in coordination with and at the direction of donald trump, he meant it. you'll recall that yesterday, i sat here and said, i'm interested to see how michael cohen flushes out that phrase, at the direction of. was that code, meaning, did

trump wink, wink, nod, nod, please take care of this, or was he explicit in asking michael cohen to make sure stormy daniels got paid, and also equally explicit in how they were going to account for that through paperwork? michael cohen left that unambiguous. donald trump knew he intended cohen to pay stormy daniels. he intended that michael cohen will not only repaid but paid in a way that left michael cohen in good standing, a, with taxes, and, b, with a little extra for the bonus he was stiffed at the end of 2016. he knew the entire time that it would be papered over as legal expenses. michael cohen filled those gaps yesterday. >> michael cohen made clear that this to donald trump, according to michael cohen's account, was about protecting his election hopes. it wasn't about protecting his marriage. that was michael cohen's assessment anyway, saying this was all about the campaign. push this past the campaign. if i'm elected, nobody cares anymore. how significant is that? >> very significant.

you'll recall, the defense wants to say this was about the family. the principal objective here, even if donald trump knew about it, principal objective was not for the campaign, that there was no conspiracy here to promote donald trump's election through unlawful means. cohen said he asked trump, how is this going to go upstairs, meaning when a story broke about karen mcdougal. trump said, "don't worry about that. how long do you think i'd be on the market for? not long." you know, trump basically also saying to cohen, even if my wife is that upset by that, don't worry about that. i'll be taken care of. i'll find another woman other than melania. that's not a person who is principally concerned about the impact on their family. >> lisa, so much has been made of michael cohen's credibility issues, and rightly so. he lied to congress. he spent time in prison. just give us your assessment as to how did he do yesterday in terms of demeanor. there has been word he might lose his temper, as he has been known to do. both his demeanor and was he believable?

did he do what the prosecution wanted? >> i think he did. he was -- the best thing i can say about michael cohen yesterday was he was humble. he took responsibility for things that he hasn't taken responsibility for in the past. he did so without being grudging about it. basically said, for example, he was repaid $50,000, john, when he was repaid for the stormy daniels payment, also got a $50,000 for a vendor that trump had stiffed. he had paid that vendor partially but not totally, and, yet, he asked the trump organization, give me all $50,000. what did he cop to yesterday on the stand? he pocketed the remainder of that. michael cohen taking responsibility yesterday, not only for conduct we already knew about, that's been charged, but all sorts of other conduct, including bullying and lying for the former president, dozens and dozens of times. not being the best guy. also, copping to basically uncharged criminal conduct yesterday. for example, lying in his statements to first republic bank when he was trying to open

an llc account, the vehicle he repaid stormy daniels through. if he can keep that demeanor on cross-examination, maintain the same humility, i think his credibility will be better off than people think. at the same time, i watched your segment earlier this morning with matt lewis. we should not dilute ourselves. michael cohen is not a hero. he is a person who has been complicit in really bad things in the past. that doesn't mean he is not telling the truth now, but it also doesn't mean he is an american patriot and hero. >> katty kay, that's the foundation of the defense, which we may start to hear later today. we'll have some more direct examination at the beginning of the day and perhaps cross begins later today. the foundation of the defense argument is, this is not a credible witness. discount everything you are hearing. >> that'll be fascinating, right? he was clearly prepped very carefully for the prosecution's questioning, and he performed well. this was not the bully we've heard of. this was not, as hope hicks described him, somebody who was self-centered and uncharitable.

he came across well. i think the question is going to be, lisa, how do you -- do you get any inclination from how he performed yesterday about how he is going to hold up once he gets under cross? the pressure is going to be much more. they're going to try to push his buttons. that's what cross-examination does. that's their whole goal, is to do that with donald trump. as an aside, i'm still digesting all the things that donald trump said about, "i won't be on the market very long. don't worry about me." i don't know how that goes down with women in the jury. lisa, do you get a sense of how he is going to hold up under cross? >> katty, it is always impossible to say how much a witness gets rattled. of course, i watched michael cohen's cross-examination in the previous trial, where he was rattled by alina habba. michael cohen maintained, for example, while he lied to congress, he was not formally charged with perjury. he also maintains he made those

lies for donald trump's behest. if michael cohen doesn't insist on semantics today and continues to accept responsibility, and even says things like, for example, "my ego was hurt when i wasn't considered for chief of staff, but i knew i wasn't qualified for the job," if that's the michael cohen that shows up on cross, prosecutors will be in better standing than people think. again, we all know the michael cohen we've seen in the past who showed up on this network time and time again and many others, the michael cohen of his podcasts and books. if that's the guy who appears at cross-examination, that's going to be a different story for the prosecution. let's see how michael cohen performs today. i will say, yesterday was the most humble i've ever seen michael cohen. i was pleasantly surprised to see him accept so much responsibility and even take it on the chip, saying he loved the job that turned out to be a massive disappointment to him. that's an understatement. >> interesting note among many

in cohen's testimony, he described the "locker room talk" about the "access hollywood" tape, saying that that was melania trump's idea. lisa rubin, see you tomorrow. ahead on "morning joe," the latest from the middle east as troop movements suggests israel could soon expand operations into rafah despite international warnings. richard engel joins us next from jerusalem on "morning joe." we're back. (inaudible sounds) (elevator doors opening) wait, there's an elevator? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, ♪ ♪ liberty. ♪ today, at america's beverage companies,... ...our bottles might still look the same... ...but they can be remade in a whole new way. thanks to you... we're getting bottles back... and we've developed a way to make new ones from 100% recycled plastic. new bottles - made using no new plastic. you'll be seeing more of these bottles in more places.

and when we get more of them back... ...we can use less new plastic. see how our bottles are made to be remade.

the united states has seen troop movement that indicates israel soon could expand its operation in the southern gazan city of rafah. that's according to two u.s. officials who say the idf has amassed enough personnel on the edge of the city to go through with its plan. meanwhile, palestinians are following israel's evacuation orders. the u.n. says nearly 450,000 people have fled rafah in the past week. more than million people had sought refuge there in the last seven months. in northern gaza, israeli troops are fighting terrorists in areas israel said it cleared. chief foreign correspondent richard engel reports from jerusalem. >> reporter: israel thought it defeated hamas in northern ga gaza, but the terrorists have regrouped.

since they carried out a massacre, hamas has become an insurgency. as the united states learned in afghanistan and iraq, insurgencies can last for decades. in southern gaza, israel is expanding military operations in rafah, despite warnings from president biden about the risk to civilians. israel claims hamas has four battalions of fighters in rafah and has ordered the evacuation of large sections of the city. >> that's the sixth time i evacuate from anywhere i was in. i feel so lost. >> reporter: this time, israel is telling palestinians to go to an area on the mediterranean coast, but palestinians say there's nothing for them there. no tents. no food. no future. >> are we going to, like, keep living in this ongoing loop? >> reporter: our crew found these men packing up pieces of their own bombed out home so they could build shelters with the debris. while hamas fighters are nowhere

to be seen. they brought this war to gaza but now provide no services and no help. they've gone underground, ready for a long insurgency, apparently at any cost. >> richard, thank you so much. richard engel joins us now. thank you so much for being with us, richard. richard, i'd love for you, if you could, provide some context. we've seen the suffering of the israeli people on october 7th. we've seen the suffering of the gazan people since that time. for good reason, there's been a lot of focus on the civilian casualties in gaza. it has, at times, papered over the heinous nature of hamas itself. not just as a terrorist organization but also as rulers, high rants over the past 15 years. my word, not yours.

but there is a "new york times" article that talks about an almost secret police. they brokered absolutely no dissent, complete authoritarians, and would actually follow young people, older people around, digging into the most personal parts of their lives, and using it against them. just brutal. also, as you know, at the time of the attacks, hamas was not even popular among the majority of people in gaza. so you have the gazan people really -- no good guys for the gazan people right now. could you explain that to our viewers a little better, following up on this "new york times" article? >> reporter: absolutely. i've seen quite a bit of that myself. now, it's impossible for foreign journalists to get into gaza because israel is not allowing access. but i used to go to gaza regularly. hamas was once elected, so at

one stage, people did give them an opportunity because they were not comfortable with the previous palestinian authority. they wanted change. they did vote them in. but then hamas took over in a violent coup, killed the opposition, and were ruling through terror. whenever i had encounters with hamas or the palestinians that i was working with in gaza, had encounters with hamas, they were frightening experiences. you didn't want hamas coming to your door and asking questions about you or asking questions about your reports. you were afraid of them. palestinians i worked with wanted as little to do with hamas as humanly possible. yes, they kept track of people, files on people, and they ruled through fear. they barely provided services. they were the government, but mostly they were a military organization. they liked to talk about their

weapons, show off their weapons, show off their fighters, generally masked, and they left the basic running of gaza to groups like the u.n. now, that is no longer working. hamas is underground, and they're exclusively a militant organization that seems to be preparing for a long gorilla war. there's talk about yahya sinwar, the new osama bin laden. i saw him before the war. i can tell you what that was like. >> yes. >> reporter: i was in gaza covering clashes at the time. there were often clashes. not on the level of october 7th, but it was often mid to serious level fighting in gaza. i was there. we were covering it. we were recording it. suddenly, there was an excitement. people started noticing something was happening. something is happening.

i saw a long convoy of cars, maybe 10 or 15 similar cars driving in a convoy to the area where we were. people started saying, oh, it's sinwar. he didn't make that many public appearances. we start trying to get near him so i could throw him a question. he got out of the car. there was a crush and he had a lot of security with him. people were pushing and shoving. i ended up getting shoved, more or less, right in front of his face, and i asked him a few questions. he answered, nothing particularly important, what he said. just about how the palestinians are going to resist. then he got back in his car and left. but it was the presence that i noticed that was so different. people were excited to see him, excited that he was making this appearance, but also very much afraid. he was coming out with this huge convoy. it was an event.

it wasn't like a normal politician where people come and they're happy to see them and glad, handing babies and singing their praises. he arrived. the mood in the room -- or the mood in the open field changed. there was certainly an era of a sense of menace while he was there. he had heavy security. i was pushed and shoved as other people were. he got in a car and left. that's kind of the way the hamas leadership operated. they would come, they would make an appearance, and then they would disappear. they didn't have a great, it seemed, affection for or from the people. >> right. let me ask you also, richard, following up on your report earlier, you talked to people in the region, as have i, that arab leaders that talked about the possibility of an arab peacekeeping force backed by the united states and united nations in gaza afterwards, talk about

how the re-emergence of hostilities in northern gaza obviously puts a big question mark over that for any arab leader who suddenly realizes israel hasn't conducted a clean-up operation of terrorists as much as they would like us to think, but that, actually, they may be fighting if they get involved, they may be fighting an insurgency for years to come. >> reporter: well, it seems very likely they would be fighting insurgency for years and years to come. biden and the secretary of state keeps telling israel, don't make the same mistakes we made in iraq, in afghanistan. don't have a policy of revenge. you need a long-term plan. but then they say, okay, we're going to create this ambiguous arab peacekeeping force. don't know anything about it. five countries were vaguely mentioned, that they're going to govern there, i guess as an

occupation authority, until there is a new palestinian authority that is less corrupt and, i guess, less hamas. that's exactly what the u.s. did in iraq. that is exactly what the u.s. did in afghanistan. we called it a debathification process. we tried to get a government that was cleaner and more to our liking. took a decade in iraq. didn't work. even though the u.s. won every military battle, it lost the war. the same thing in afghanistan. 20 years in that case where the u.s. won every single major battle and then lost the war. so it seems that what the u.s. is talking about here for its long-term plan for gaza, is very similar to the same mistakes that the united states did, in fact, make in those countries,

which is to try to defeat an insurgency and try to stand up an artificial government. i haven't seen a clearer plan so far emerge for what comes next in gaza. the hints we're hearing don't sound very convincing. >> great perspective and reporting from nbc's richard engel, live for us this morning in jerusalem. richard, thanks so much, as always. gene, you ask for your column in "the washington post," how is this making israel more secure? quote, "nature abhors a vacuum, which is what israel is creating. on orders from netanyahu and his war cabinet, the israel defense forces eliminated the hamas governing apparatus in northern gaza, but then headed south without leaving a system of authority in place. it was a matter of time before the remnants of hamas reemerged to reimpose a semblance of

order." gene, flush that out a little bit. >> i do think a vacuum is being created. i certainly understand why many palestinians would be relieved to be out from under hamas. at the same time, they're certainly not thrilled, were not thrilled with the way that was done. now, they have no services. the u.s. can barely function to provide anything. there is a vacuum there, and it is being refilled, i think, by hamas. we saw fighting break out, some pretty fierce fighting in which israeli soldiers were killed over the weekend in northern ga

gaza where israel first cleared. they found the tunnels underneath, all around here, the refugee camp north of there. they cleared that area, but now there is new fighting there because hamas didn't disappear. it went to ground. this insurgency that we were talking about has begun. the israelis now have had to go back and refight for territory they'd once already cleared. i don't see why we wouldn't expect the exact same thing to happen for the south. if they go into rafah, again, i think that's where we're going to end up. i don't see how that makes israel more safe in the long run, to have utter chaos on the border with hamas being

essentially the armed force that's conducting an insurgency. probably not staying on that side of the border. >> nbc news says troop movements indicate israel will go into rafah. that's been a red line for the president. says you can't just go smashing into rafah. the question remains, does president netanyahu care about this point about what president biden is threatening? >> netanyahu said they'll go in alone if they have to. the u.s. said we won't supply you for an invasion of rafah. they'll support targeted strikes. the fighting on the outskirts of town hasn't crossed what the president said is his red line. this president said they'll continue to send defensive weapons to israel. it is just about this operation in rafah. netanyahu has often ignored what

the u.s. is saying on the war. this is probably still weeks before a real full-on invasion goes in, but they acknowledge the timetable could shift. they're also not sure totally what it will accomplish. yesterday in public is what a lot of u.s. officials have been saying in private for some time. deputy secretary of state kirk campbell, a top ranking official at the state department, spoke at a nato event yesterday and simply says the biden administration does not believe that israel's current strategy against hamas will lead to, quote, total victory. there is simply no sense as to what a real win would be, in part, because of what gene described, willie, in that hamas will be able to reconstitute in some form, even if it is more renegade terrorists than a ruling group. >> we had this concern from the beginning. as don rumsfeld said, you kill one person, you create ten more

terrorists. there have been debates about the actual numbers, but it is in the tens of thousands. there are so many families who have lost a father, a brother, a mother, a daughter, a son in gaza, that what does that do for the next generation of palestinians? what does that do for the security of israel? how does that make israel secure if you are living next to israel and whose only motivation is going to be the destruction of the state of israel? we saw that. i appreciate that on october 7th, what hamas was doing. but the polls before october 7th suggested there was not widespread support for hamas in gaza. you look even in jordan now. there is much more support for hamas. hamas has succeeded in galvanizing people just because of the level of destruction amongst the palestinians. purely from a national security point of view of israel, i just don't see how this has made a two-state solution more viable than it was. you have so many palestinians

who are driven by fury, grief, and anger. >> katty, i mean, you hit the nail on the head. willie, this is all -- this was meant by hamas to push israel and the palestinians further away from a two-state solution. to stop the normalization of relations between israel and, yet, another major arab nation in the region, saudi arabia. you have extremists in israel that opposed a two-state solution. now, the prime minister who opposes a two-state solution. you, of course, have hamas who have always opposed a two-state solution. because of this very calculated terror attack on october 7th, that's what we have.

i must say, and it is important for us to remember this, netanyahu couldn't say he didn't see it coming. we had one expert after another expert after another expert saying, be careful how you respond to october 7th. we're not being concondescendin. we're saying that because we made so many mistakes after september 11th. netanyahu went in for whatever reasons, and used the least targeted approach. that's not quite fair, but he certainly didn't look over the horizon, trying to keep things secure for the israeli people before and after, certainly knew he had to go in full force. what's happened? he's got his wish. he is still in power.

israelis don't want a two-state solution. palestinians don't want a two-state solution. as katty said, we're further and further away from peace in the region now, more than ever before. >> this was the plan for hamas. it attacked so barbaric, so inhuman on october 7th, to provoke a response, so forceful to cause the divide for people who wanted a two-state solution, and it perhaps turned some people in the region against israel. meanwhile, the humanitarian effort to get the refugees out of rafah, a place they've fled over the last several months ahead of that expected invasion by israel continues this morning. more than a million people there. breaking news this morning. secretary of state antony blinken is in kyiv today for a previously unannounced trip to reaffirm america's support for ukraine. this marks the first visit by a biden administration official to the country since the president signed that long-awaited aid

package passed by congress last month. secretary blinken met with ukrainian president zelenskyy earlier this morning. later, he will deliver remarks, focusing on kyiv's strategic war. nearly 6,000 ukrainian civilians have evacuated from kharkiv, where president zelenskyy has warned nearby villages are being turned into combat zones. coming up, with donald trump barred from publicly commenting on witness testimony in his criminal hush money trial, the former president is relying on his allies, his sycophants, to do the talking for him. we'll show you the republicans ramping up their attacks, next on "morning joe."

voices of people with cidp: cidp disrupts. cidp derails. let's be honest... all: cidp sucks! voices of people with cidp: but living with cidp doesn't have to. when you sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com, you'll find inspiration in real patient stories, helpful tips, reliable information, and more.

cidp can be tough. but finding hope just got a little easier. sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com. all: be heard. be hopeful. be you. switch to shopify so you can build it better, scale it faster and sell more. much more. take your business to the next stage when you switch to shopify. hi, i'm jason. i've lost 228 pounds on golo. ♪ i don't ever want to go back to wearing a 4xl shirt or not being able to climb up stairs without taking a break. so i'm committed to golo for life.

(reporters) over here. kev! kev! (reporter 1) any response to the trade rumors, we keep hearing about? (kev) we talkin' about moving? not the trade, not the trade, we talking about movin'. no thank you. (reporter 2) you could use opendoor. sell your house directly to them, it's easy. (kev) ... i guess we're movin'. a slow network is no network for business.

that's why more choose comcast business. and now, we're introducing ultimate speed for business —our fastest plans yet. we're up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds... at no additional cost. it's ultimate speed for ultimate business. don't miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today!

"silence of the lamb," anyone ever see it? >> i love "silence of the lamb." it is one of my favorite movie. right up there with "star war," "dance with wolf" and "jaw." >> the late, great hannibal

lecter, congratulations. >> in none of the stories does he die. anthony hopkins is still very much alive. does trump think a character dies when he turns off the tv? >> what is going on? what is going on? i'm no political expert, but maybe don't keep saying the late, great hannibal lecter. >> why did he congratulate hannibal lecter? >> one of the best serial killers out there. fictional, too, we should note. >> some of donald trump's allies joined him in new york yesterday for his criminal hush money trial. outside of court, they said what the former president cannot say because of the gag order in the case. >> i'm here for the simple reason, to show support for a friend. luckily, the president's supporters should know that he's actually in great spirits despite the circumstances of this. >> i'm here today to represent and to pay my respects to what president trump is going through. it's a tough time for him. that courtroom is depressing.

this is new york city, the icon of our country. we've got a courtroom that is the most depressing thing i've ever been in. mental anguish is trying to be pushed on the republican candidate for the president of the united states this year. that's all this is. the republican candidate for president of the united states is going through mental anguish in a courtroom that's very depressing. very depressing. >> very, very depressing. senator jd vance of ohio and senator tommy tuberville of alabama said they were there to support a friend. then both attacked michael cohen. vance also repeated the judge's daughter, repeating claims made by the former president. joe, courtrooms aren't supposed to be studio 54 and 79. they are a little drab, boring, in fact, a little depressing. also, just the ongoing debasement of these men. he was the leader of young men for his whole life as a head football coach. jd vance is a united states

marine, for god sake, where it's all about honor. you watch them performatively outraged on behalf of the man, i guess who they want to be the vice president or close to power or something. it is very sad. >> yeah. you know, it's different stories for both of these men. >> yeah. >> tommy tuberville wasn't exactly sure who fought in world war ii the and what world war ii was fought for. but jd vance, i mean, we could get the clips. jd vance, you know, was wearing his little silicon valley vest, talking about, i like san francisco, you know? he was like, i like -- i mean, he was the elite's elite. he was the toast of the town. oh, please tell us how poor white people live in ohio. he's like, well, yes, could you give me some more chardonnay,

please, love? he did that routine, made a lot of money doing that. then he decided he wanted to run for congress. but before he did, and i have to remind people of this because nobody remembers this stuff. jd vance said in 2016, if you loved jesus, you couldn't support donald trump. he didn't say that, like, in 2002 in silicon valley. buy, sell. you know, he said that in 2016. in you love jesus, if you were a christian, you cannot support donald trump. now, on the vice presidential treadmill, he's changed his mind and decided this is the most noble of men in his porn star trial in a very, very depressing courtroom. >> so depressing. >> if tommy tuberville would like a list of really great

interior decorators across alabama, northwest florida, i could give him some people. i'll talk to my friends in pensacola. hey, could you go fix up the courtroom? tommy tuberville says it is depressing. i mean, it's just the stupidity of it all. by the way, let us never forget, jen palmieri, that we have -- jen palmieri is here with us -- that we have in tommy tuberville a man who gutted america's military readiness for a year. he tried to gut america's military readiness for a year. generals, admirals, whether they were active or retired, were saying as much. that by holding up families, holding up officers for moving on to their next position, was completely decimating the ready readyness for some people.

this guy giving a lecture on morality, again, being obsessed with the interior decorating of a new york city courtroom, it is beyond bizarre. again, all i can say is, it's just -- it's just about the vice presidential sweepstakes. everybody wants to be vice president for donny. >> but it is sort of -- first of all, it is ridiculous how they're treating the courtroom like it is a debate spin room. you have to bring your surrogates up there to do the post-debate spin. but with tuberville, it was revealing, that the only thing he could say about it was that it was depressing. you know, trump is under moral anguish. trump doesn't want us to think that. he wants us to think he is fine with all this and this isn't hurting him at all. i don't know that tuberville saying he is under moral anguish and the place is depressing, you know, that's making trump a sad sack. that's not what trump normally goes for. but he is also the guy with the ivf happening in alabama. that's good. we need more babies. i don't know if this guy goes

too deep on what's actually happening. >> yeah. >> eugene, to joe's point about jd vance, he called donald trump reprehensible. he said, i'm a proud never trump guy in 2016. he called donald trump, quote, cultural heroin, meaning it might feel good in the moment but will kill you in the end, talking about donald trump. now, he's outside of the courtroom. it is a brilliant move by donald trump. okay, i'm not violating the gag order, but i have these lemmings that will say whatever i want them to say. let's parade them into new york city. >> he could fill the courtroom with as many of those vice presidential wanna-bes as he chooses to, right? i'm sure there will be a steady parade of them as they try out for the role of standing by like a statue, they hope, if donald trump is president, and nodding sagely, the way mike pence did for four years.

jd vance is a particular case, as joe says. this is a guy who was mr. sort of fleece vest, venture capital, peter millar guy. that's who he was. >> oh, my gosh. >> he was the glenn youngkin of old, except he was totally anti-trump. he was a pretty good writer, writing hillbilly-ology, making him a star. the poor white people. now, he's just this completely different person. that's what he sees as in his political and ultimately financial interest. it's disgusting. >> to willie's point, it is smart to have the surrogates at the courtroom, deliver sound bites. it's a show of republican force

and reinforcing, in trump's mind, this is a political prosecution, right? here are my fellow republicans standing next to me, having my back in deep blue new york city. it's part of the vp stakes. i don't think the senator from alabama is involved, but jd vance is. doug burgum is a surprising contender after the tour de force performance there in new jersey, i suppose. what's the latest you've heard as to that vp sweepstakes? last i was told, donald trump is in no rush to make a decision. he loves the attention. seeing it almost like "apprentice" part 2, part 3, wherever we are. >> only donald trump could make something as critical as a vp pick a reality tv episode. one thing i have heard, the more people who say you need a woman in order to get more women suburban voters or you need somebody of color in order to get more black male voters, the more donald trump is likely to pick a white man. he just wants to show he can do it his way.

it's contrarian. he likes doug burgum because he is not going to outshine him and he has lots of money. jd vance is clearly being tested. he is being tested in mar-a-lago. whether it is possible for donald trump to trust jd vance, given how much jd vance has done a 180 in his political views on donald trump, let's see. i wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being a white man with lots of money. still ahead, we'll continue to follow day two of michael cohen's testimony at donald trump's hush money trial. any moment now, cohen will leave his apartment and make his way to the manhattan courthouse. plus, congressman dan goldman of new york joins us live in studio as republicans prepare contempt charges against attorney general merrick garland. "morning joe" is coming right back.

we are going to evict this man, the worst president by far. jimmy connors is -- jimmy connors is good. he's also happy. jimmy is a very happy man, both of them. you know what? they want him out. >> oh, my god. he just forgot the name of a president. listen, jimmy connors is great. >> southpaw, yeah. >> number one singles player from '74 to '77. >> what a run, yeah.

>> the most single titles ever won. the most single matches ever won. i don't know if people knew this about jimmy connors. i believe he won eight singles majors. one of the greatest of all time. one thing, though, you will not find on his resume, camp david peace accords or the normalization of relations with china. though jimmy connors was extraordinarily versatile, he also had nothing to do, willie, with the panama canal treaty, all right? so jimmy connors did a lot of things in the '70s, but he was not president of the united states. that guy who wants to be president of the united states now believes he's running against barack obama, repeatedly says it, and can't remember

jimmy carter's last name. and joe biden is the guy that they think, like, is not cogent? whoa. >> yeah, i mean, we've said this many, many times. just do yourself -- well, i don't know if it is a favor, but sit once and watch an entire donald trump rally from start to finish. >> oh. >> listen to that man and tell me he's all there and president biden is not all there. that's the same in new jersey over the weekend where he called hannibal lecter the late, great hannibal lecter. he is riffing up there, and it doesn't go well. >> he can't remember jimmy carter's last name. again, he thinks world war ii has yet to be -- i mean, we could go down the list. you're right, you listen to it and see, the guy is just not all there. and the fact that some people -- you know, nancy pelosi was at an

oxford debate, and her opponent, who i think used to be in mumford and sons, or maybe they're still going, took the other side and talked about joe biden being completely demented. you hear it on pro-trump channels. it's insane. it's like they're whistling past the graveyard and not looking at donald trump's problem with memory. >> on the upside, this is a moment to honor the great jimmy connors. glad we were able to do that this morning. what a run through the '70s, early '80s, and had the last moment in the u.s. open, '90/'91, something like that? >> yeah. >> we digress. jonathan lemire, katty kay, jennifer palmieri with us. joining the conversation, former u.s. senator, msnbc political

analyst claire mccaskill. she and jennifer palmieri hosts of the podcast "how to win 2024." dan goldman of new york joins us, serving the democrats in the first impeachment. let's dive in. michael cohen will return to the witness stand for a second day of questioning in the donald trump criminal hush money trial. the fixer for donald trump testified more than six hours yesterday, directly implicating the former president in hush money schemes. telling jurors, trump approved hefty payouts to stop stories about sex he feared could hurt his 2016 presidential campaign. sitting about 10 feet from trump in the courtroom, cohen explained how his former boss wanted to silence adult film star stormy daniels and her sexual claims of a 2006 encounter. he recalled trump saying, quote, "this is a disaster, total disaster. women are going to hate me. because this is a real disaster.

women will hate me. guys may think it's cool but this is going to be a disaster for the campaign." it took on urgency after the release of the "access hollywood" tape. in 2016, cohen said trump told him to, quote, "just do it," when it came to paying daniels $130,000 to stay quiet about the alleged encounter. cohen detailed the steps he took to mask the payments to daniels, telling trump about the actions he was taing and that trump had promised to reimburse him personally. cohen testified the two men discussed how the reimbursements would be paid as legal services over monthly installments with former trump organization chief financial officer allen weisselberg. despite trump's attorneys saying their client acted to protect his family from the salacious stories, cohen contended trump was just preok preoccupied with

impact it'd have on his presidential run. he was not thinking about his wife melania when the daniels' story threatened to become public. cohen saying, quote, "this was all about the campaign." so let's pause here. claire, get your reaction to michaelmy daniels was the most salacious of witnesses, michael cohen was the most important. >> he was calm and kept his answers short and to the point. he really seems like he is in a good place in terms of his demeanor. frankly, a witness like this, you're more worried about how they'll handle themselves emotionally on the stand than sometimes you are about what comes out of their mouth. you know, i'm a little concerned about the fact that there's so much emphasis on the payment being made and how the payment came about being made, and i

think everyone has to always keep front of mind that the prosecutors have to prove the way they recorded these payments and hid them in the business records is really the key to a conviction in this case. while trump signed all those checks, it's a lot of circumstantial evidence. sometimes, as dan will tell you, a mountain full of circumstantial evidence is better than one unreliable witness. so i do think the circumstantial evidence is significant here, but the direct evidence that trump was fully aware that these payments were being hidden in a way that was fraudulent is a little light at this point. i think the jury is going to wonder, where is allen weisselberg? >> congressman, put on your former prosecutor's hat for a moment here. what about that connection? that's the whole ball game right there. that donald trump knew they were falsifying records. has the prosecution made that case? >> well, i think it does remain

to be seen, and that is the key. on the one hand, that is the technical legal requirement that they will have to prove. a lot of times in these trials, though, you know, the jury will want to make sure they check all the boxes. but the detailed defense is a tough one to make. i would echo what claire said, and i have deposed michael cohen, have met with him a number of times to prepare him. this was different testimony than what his demeanor was during the ag's case. this is different than he has been in the past. the question is not how he is on direct examination. the question is how he is on cross-examination. they were very smart to put him so late in the trial. because what is happening now is as he is on direct examination, he's testifying, and the jury is seeing how what he is saying is consistent with what david pecker said, with what stormy

daniels said, with what other witnesses said. because the d.a. knows that they are going to have to corroborate him because he is an admitted purgerer. hessian an admitted liar. he has testified inconsistently on the stand, so he is either lying one time or the other. he will be really skewered on cross-examination. to use him effectively, they'll rely heavily on the recording where he is corroborated about what he says about karen mcdougal, and they're going to rely very much on the consistent statements that he made with all of the other witnesses. it remains to be seen today on cross-examination whether he can hold up and accept responsibility for lying on the stand before or lying to congress. he will say, of course, yes, i lied, and i did that for donald

trump, your client, and that'll be effective. the technical defenses or the technical aspects of the case do remain to be seen, but i think the critical thing here that they are really showing over and over and over, both for this trial and just generally, is that donald trump just doesn't care about election law. he doesn't care about campaign finance law. he welcomed russian interference in 2016. he tried to hide the stormy daniels stuff because it came right on the heels of the "access hollywood." he thought he was done. everything thought he was done. they're doing a very effective job of showing that this man just simply doesn't care about the law. >> you know, congressman, let me ask you this, i've always said if a member of congress had done what donald trump did regarding a payoff to anybody, to keep

them quiet right before an election, that the fcc would come after them, would charge them, but they didn't to that. so just playing devil's advocate here, if they passed on this, why would a manhattan d.a. be in a better position to press that charge? >> well, i don't think the manhattan d.a. is in a better position than the southern district of new york, for example. they have had to kind of maneuver with state law that's not directly on point as federal law is, and there are a lot of questions as to why the southern district did not end up keeping this case and passed it over to the manhattan d.a.'s office. i think some of it relates to the fact that they gave immuity to allen weisselberg and, therefore, it is very complicated to charge a case where if you have a witness like that who has immunity. it is also hard to prove. you do need to prove that he

knowingly did this to conceal it from the public so they would not have the information. it is effectively an in kind contribution to his campaign. while it make may seem like a technical violation, the thrust of it is exactly what the campaign finance laws are designed to avoid, which is, that the american public, there are rules, laws, regulations for how campaigns can use money, can report money, the disclosure obligations are everything. in politics, it is transparency that matters most. so the american public can understand what they are voting for. so this is somebody who is clearly just flouting the law. i mean, look what happened, joe, last week with the report about how he is offering, effectively, to use his official power as president to help oil companies if they donate $1 billion to his

campaign. i mean, that is just outright corruption that he is promising on the campaign trail. it kind of gets back page news. this is someone who is truly corrupt. >> that was a "washington post" report yesterday. let's bring into the conversation msnbc news legal analyst, former prosecutor andrew weissmann. good morning. what stood out to you yesterday from michael cohen's testimony? >> well, to follow up with what dan said, it's worth remembering, one of the sort of small pieces that really should be shocking is michael cohen confirming that not only was there sort of this catch and kill component to the deal with david pecker, also, he said we disseminated false stories and we got the stories before they were printed and could pass on them and shape them and edit them. he gave examples of that involving ted cruz, marco rubio,

and hillary clinton, where they actually saw the headlines and the stories and gave comments and directed how those stories should appear. that is shocking. you know, it is one thing to have media outlets accuse you of being biased or favoring one side or the other, but this idea you'd have a private agreement to sort of both catch and kill stories that would denigrate one candidate and disseminate negative stories against another is truly sort of the stuffer that happens in russia and other autocratic systems. it's another point that i think illustrates what dan is saying about this particular candidate and former president. >> andrew, the key word with michael cohen is credibility. we know he is an admitted liar. he committed perjury. he lied to congress. he served time in prison. give us your assessment as to

how he did yesterday. did he come off as believable? did he come off as credible? how would you gauge that the defense will try to poke holes in all that? >> sure. i was there yesterday. i thought he did really well. i thought he was what you want a witness to be. he was calm. he answered just the questions that were asked, as claire mentioned. he added some, i thought, significant color. for instance, there was a psychological component to his testimony when he was asked, you know, when you'd go into donald trump and he would say, you know, you did a good job or that was fantastic, how did you feel? he said, it made me feel like i was on top of the world. the emotion in his voice, you really understood this sort of father/son relationship, that this was a really close bond from michael cohen's

perspective. as you said, and as dan said, this is really the whole ballpark with respect to him is cross-examination. obviously, they have a lot to work with. they can point out all of the ways that he has lied and committed other crimes. he's lied under oath. he's also committed crimes not just for donald trump. that's clear. he's also committed crimes on his own, unrelated to donald trump. he's going to have to eat that, as well. he also in the tape recording, which is a great piece of evidence for the prosecutor, the tape recording that he made of donald trump was define donald trump's back. he's going to have to eat that, as well, on cross-examination, that he is not so loyal that he would do something that's behind donald trump's back. now, he'll say he made the tape recording because, ultimately, it was going to help donald trump. he was going to use it to show david pecker that we were serious about going forward. but it still is an unusual thing

to have a lower-level employee tape their boss. you know, there's a lot to work with today when cross-examination starts. >> andrew, a couple quick things. do you think that michael cohen has done enough from the prosecutor's point of view to establish that -- with receipts, ideally, that donald trump knew about the alleged coverup? two, as you know michael cohen, how do you think he is going to hold up under cross? >> so i think it is a great question. i think that he has done a lot in terms of advancing the case, and he has talked about lots of direct conversations. one of the things the prosecutors did that was really smart was they used all sorts of records, tape recordings, phone calls in his direct testimony to latch him to the corroborating evidence. the phone records here are pretty devastating in terms of timeline.

remember, donald trump is paying not just $130,000 to reimburse michael cohen. he is paying twice that. that's because he understood, per michael cohen and his own checks, that this was going to be billed in a false way to be legal fees. if it was just going to be a one to one reimbursement, he'd only have had to pay $130,000. i think he did pretty well. i think if he maintains his cool and the demeanor we saw yesterday, and he owns what he did, i think he is going to do just fine. i mean, the facts are what they are. it's an ugly story about him, but i don't think there will be any explosive moments that are surprising. >> michael cohen back on the stand in a couple of hours now for more direct questioning before cross-examination, expected to begin later today. former federal prosecutor andrew weissmann, thanks so much, as always. the republican-led house oversight and judiciary committees are moving forward

with an effort to hold attorney general merrick garland in contempt of congress. both committees have scheduled separate markups on a contempt resolution for thursday morning. the republican leaders say dpar garland is withholding recordings with robert hur's conversations with president biden and his biography. it was taken during biden's handling of classified documents. the department of justice handed over transcripts of the interviews, but the actual audio has not been released. hur himself also testified before the judiciary committee. that's the report where hur said he thought president biden had a poor memory but also said he would not recommend bringing charges against him. congressman, this all falls under this sort of nebulous impeachment inquiry that jim jordan, james comer, your colleagues, have been undertaking the last several months. what do you make of this effort

to hold the attorney general in contempt? >> let's break this down. they have the transcript of the interview. they have the information, plaque and white on paper. the substance of what they want they already have. they are now trying to hold the attorney general in contempt simply because the attorney general won't turn over the audio, knowing that they will just use that for their own political partisan campaign purposes. because there is no legitimate reason that they can innumerate, why they need the audio for congressional purposes in addition to the transcript. but it gets better. the person trying to bring contempt against merrick garland for violating a subpoena, for providing the substance but not necessarily all of the mechanism, is jim jordan. jim jordan defied, entirely defied a subpoena from the january 6th committee. he didn't just give transjipcri

and not audio. he gave nothing. the hypocrisy these republicans continue to push forward with, when you have other members of my committee, the oversight committee, who also defied a congressional subpoena, rejected all cooperation with the january 6th committee, and now trying to turn around and saying, no, no, you must comply with every single thing we ask or you'll be held in contempt, that's never how this worked. that would fail if it ever went to court. they're just desperately clawing for something to hold on to because the impeachment investigation was such a flop and such a bust. they're trying to change the topic now. but they can't help but shoot themselves in the foot. >> it is interesting to me. what you said, this is really important. the essence of the ability of congress to subpoena all rests in legislative purposes, okay.

this is why they have -- it is oversight and legislative purposes. mostly legislative purposes. that's why you've seen so many court fights about whether or not there is a legitimate legislative goal in congressional subpoenas. you talk about the emperor wears no clothes, these guys have no legitimate legislative purposes to get the audio instead of the written transcript. it's so clear what they're doing. the bottom line is, these guys have no shame. i mean, has anybody taken on jim jordan directly in committee about his failure to comply with subpoenas? why hasn't that been a viral moment yet? >> eric swalwell does it every single committee hearing. jordan just doesn't respond. >> he just doesn't say anything? >> in the oversight committee, we have also confronted andy biggs and scott perry for doing it. >> yeah. >> they've actually had to kind of address it. their response is completely

preposterous. at one point, jim jordan said, well, i was never properly served with the subpoena. >> no -- hmm. >> it's a joke. >> where is this going, congressman? we famously --chairman comer famously said months ago, there's smoke but no fire yet. how long will they drag this out? they're not called on it in their media silos or among their voters. the voters have somewhere in the back of their mind that, maybe, president biden will be or should be impeached for this, despite the fact that robert hur said that was not his conclusion, that there would be no charges brought. are they going to keep this ball in the air through the election? >> i think they may try. i think it is very clear the impeachment is going nowhere. by the way, this subpoena, this hur stuff, has nothing to do with the impeachment investigation to begin with. they're just including everything to try to save

chairman comer's disastrous investigation with something to hang on to. but it is very obvious that they have completely flopped in their number one objective for the oversight committee this year. frankly, in the homeland security committee, as well, in trying to impeach secretary mayorkas. they will try to drag it out because it's always been political. it's always been partisan. it's always just been to help donald trump win his election. so they will continue to do that as much as they possibly can, and we will continue to call them out for abusing the authority of congress and a congressional subpoena for purely partisan purposes. this contempt hearing is the best example of that. because there is zero -- i challenge any republican, please, explain to me why you need the audio and not just the transcript. no one will be able to explain why there is a legitimate congressional purpose to get the

audio and not just the substance of the interview. i applaud merrick garland for standing up to these republicans and saying, this is preposterous and we're not going togames. >> the judiciary committee says it is important to hear the, quote, verbal nuance, to hear how the president said what he said. >> to determine whether or not robert hur should have believed him as part of a classified documents case that has nothing to do with an impeachment? it is a farce. >> congressman dan goldman of new york, good to see you. thanks for being here. >> thank you. ahead on "morning joe," crews in baltimore carry out a controlled demolition on a massive piece of the collapsed francis scott key bridge. we'll have the latest on the cleanup effort there. first, our next guest risked his life to put a spotlight on some of the world's most pressing problems. pulitzer prize-winning journalist nicholas kristof joins us with his memoir. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

hi, i'm chris and i lost 57 pounds on golo. golo isn't complicated. i don't have to follow a restrictive diet, and i don't have to spend a lot of time making meals. using golo was truly transformative. it was easy, and inexpensive. if advanced lung cancer has you searching for possibilities, discover a different first treatment. immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer. but opdivo plus yervoy is the first combination of 2 immunotherapies for adults newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer that has spread, tests positive for pd-l1, and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. opdivo plus yervoy is not chemotherapy, it works differently. it helps your immune system fight cancer in 2 different ways. opdivo and yervoy can cause your immune system to harm healthy parts of your body during and after treatment. these problems can be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have a cough; chest pain; shortness of breath; irregular heartbeat; diarrhea;

constipation; severe stomach pain; severe nausea or vomiting; dizziness; fainting; eye problems; extreme tiredness; changes in appetite, thirst or urine; rash; itching; confusion; memory problems; muscle pain or weakness; joint pain; flushing; or fever. these are not all the possible side effects. problems can occur together and more often when opdivo is used with yervoy. tell your doctor about all medical conditions including immune or nervous system problems, if you've had or plan to have an organ or stem cell transplant, or received chest radiation. your search for 2 immunotherapies starts here. ask your doctor about opdivo plus yervoy. a chance to live longer.

before planning the big trip you were limping thanks to a bad knee. then, you heard about mako robotic-assisted knee replacement. it starts with a ct scan to pinpoint the problem. that becomes a personalized, 3d plan to guide your doctor during surgery. mako can help lead to better outcomes, like less pain and shorter recovery times.

the lifetime of a knee implant is limited, and revision surgery may be required. individual results and recovery times vary. risks of surgery include pain, infection, heart attack, stroke, death, and other serious risks. ask your doctor for important safety information. [camera shutter] to find a doctor who uses mako visit makocan.com

people in chad. bakeet is one casualty of the brutal tactics. when bashir financed and armed rebels to overthrow chad's

government, some of the fighting took place near bakeet's hut. he and friends found a live grenade and played with it, and it exploded, taking his hands, one eye, and half of his face. >> that was "the new york times" opinion columnist nicholas kristof, then a foreign correspondent, shining a light on the genocide in 2009. his reporting on the atrocities would earn kristof a second pulitzer prize for giving a voice to the voiceless in other parts of the world. nick joins us now, the author of the memoir out today entitled, "chasing life: a reporter's life." you write in part this, "what i've learned from four decades of covering mystery is hope, but the reasons for hope and the need for hope. i emerge from years on the front lines awed by material and moral progress. when i step back, what i see over the arc of my career is a backdrop of progress in america and abroad that is rarely acknowledged, and that should

give us perspective and inspire us to take on the many challenges that still confront us. some people see my career covering massacres and oppression and assume that i must be a dour and infused with misery, a journalistic eeyore. not so. journalism is an act of hope." you know, nick, we often talk here about how covering the news every day can bring us down and make us forget that america has the strongest economy in the world, our soft and hard power is better than the rest of the world. even tackling greenhouse gases the last decade, we've made progress. worldwide poverty levels continuing to plummet. all the things you're talking about. but when you see the news of the day, it's hard to not see what the misery is that's right in front of you and, instead,

seeing -- forgive me -- but the moral arc over the past 50, 60 years. quite remarkable, from civil rights to poverty to democracy across the globe. >> yeah. i mean, i think one of the problems is we in journalism, we cover planes that crash and not planes that land. so one can get the impression that watching the news, all planes are always crashing. of course, that's not the case. we understand that with aviation. i don't know that we understand that in terms of, you know, the world as a whole. i'm afraid that that tends to create this sense of despair that is paralyzing. desmond tutu was someone i hugely admired. he spoke about hope being one of the factors that enabled them to overcome apartheid, brutal homophobia and xenophobia in south africa. i'm with him on that. >> you covered genocide.

you've covered civil wars. you've covered apartheid, as well. when you approach those stories, when you put your pack on and you fly in, what is your approach? what is your mindset? is it just observe and record and report back, or how much of yourself and your emotion do you bring to those? >> you know, i'm a little ashamed that when i go into a village and, you know, people have been killed or injured, i really have an emotional armor. it's probably like an er physician. you know, you just want to get the facts. you're in danger. you're putting your interpreter, your driver in danger. you just want to get what you can and go out. but sometimes there are chinks in your armor, and children, for me, are one of them. you find a kid who has been shot, raped, whatever it may be, and tells their story, and that is, you know, hard to deal with. >> but you still manage to find hope, not just in other parts of

the world but even in america. i was glad to see. i know joe is a big believer in this, too, you believe in american supremacy still. even if trump wins, right, you believe that america has sort of like a broader foundation that we're going to be okay. there's times when we were doubted before, the civil war, that europe was going to dominate america, china was going to take over as the strongest economy. it hasn't happened. what do you think it is about america that makes you hopeful? >> yeah, i mean, look, i should acknowledge, i think trump would be a huge challenge to this country and to democracy. >> yes. >> i think we face enormous challenges of all kinds. but that said, there is this underlying economic dynamism in the country. there is an inventiveness. you see that vis-a-vis europe, for example, vis-a-vis china. everybody thought china was going to overtake the u.s. as the world's biggest economy. now, that is no longer true.

trump may damage europe and asia more than he damages the u.s. even, paradoxically leaving the u.s. in a strangely better position. >> nick, as discussed, you've faced real horrors but also met some people, some characters who have given you hope. tell us about a couple of them. >> so, you know, one of the -- being a liberal, i'm always a little more fond of some religious evangelicals and others, and that's partly because of the people i meet out in the field. you know, one person who left a deep impression that i write about is a nun in northern uganda. there was this girls' school that was attacked by the lords resistance army. you know, brutal militia that was killing and raping. the girls were kidnapped, taken off in the bush. the ugandan army and police refused to go after them and try to recover the girls. they were terrified of the lords resistance army. this nun, rachelle, goes after

them single-handedly, armed with a rosary. after two days, catches up with the war lord. negotiates with her to get back 109 of the girls. just that sense of raw courage, i'm able to come back sometimes from places like congo or sudan feeling better about humanity. because side by side with the worst, true evil, you just see the very best. the human capacity for strength, resilience, courage, and decency. >> so let's talk about the future of journalism. i want to see if there is any hope there. you talked about covering the plane crashes, not the plane landings. viral anecdotes have become a moneymaker. the business model of journalism has shift. local ranks of journalism had been decimated over the last decade. we do not have eyes on government at many levels at this point in journalism. what do you feel about the future of journalism, and are

you as worried as i am about its ability to continue to be a truth teller? >> yeah. i think you are exactly right to focus on local journalism around the country. the business model for that has collapsed. there are more and more counties around the country that don't have any watchdog, no accountability, and they're often one-party places. there is no opposing party to provide the watchdog function. at the national level, we're in somewhat better shape. the business model there is also under threat. a.i., i think, presents a particular threat to everybody's business model. you know, what the new business model will be, i don't know. i think philanthropy may be a part of that. we're seeing a little bit of that. i also fundamentally, maybe this is chasing hope, i just think that news has value and that we will figure out how -- we will figure out some ways to compensate those who provide it because it is of intrinsic value. >> nick writes journalism is an act of hope.

we do all this because we believe better outcomes are possible if we just get people to under more clearly what was going on. something you've been doing for, what, 40 years or so at "the new york times." the new book is titled "chasing hope: a reporter's life." "new york times" opinion columnist and reporter nicholas kristof. congrats on the book. >> thank you so much. up next, a renowned photographer catches pictures of business icons, celebrities, and world leaders, and much more. a new book, "the defenders, heros for the fight for global human rights." platon joins us with the stories behind his iconic works, next on "morning joe."

when you purchase a pair of bombas socks, tees, or underwear, you also donate one to someone facing homelessness. one purchased equals one donated. 100 million donations and counting. visit bombas.com and get 20% off your first order.

(♪♪) with wet amd, i worry i'm not only losing my sight, but my time to enjoy it.

but now, i can open up my world with vabysmo. (♪♪) vabysmo is the first fda-approved treatment for people with wet amd that improves vision and delivers a chance for up to 4 months between treatments, so i can do more of what i love. (♪♪) (♪♪) vabysmo works differently, it's the only treatment designed to block 2 causes of wet amd. vabysmo is an eye injection. don't take it if you have an infection, active eye swelling, or are allergic to it. treatments like vabysmo can cause an eye infection or retinal detachment. vabysmo may cause a temporary increase in eye pressure after receiving the injection. there is an uncommon risk of heart attack or stroke associated with blood clots. severe swelling of blood vessels in the eye can occur. most common eye side effects were cataract and broken blood vessels. open up your world with vabysmo. a chance for up to 4 months between treatments with vabysmo. ask your doctor.

one of my favorite chants my dad used to do during the 2011 to 2024 protests in moscow was one for all and all for one. dictators like putin want us to forget it. they want us to forget how strong we can be when we work together. they want us to forget how much we can accomplish when we stand side by side. because it is that much harder for any dictator to fight an international, united front than each of us individually. >> that is dasha, daughter of russian opposition leader alexei navalny, just four months before her father's murder, discussing the power of a united front when fighting authoritarian figures. joining us now is world-renowned

photographer platon. he has a new photo essay titled "the defenders, heros of the fight for global human rights." a beautiful book now on sale. throughout his career, platon has photographed some of the world's most prominent figures, as well as human rights activists and their quests for justice. platon, so great to see you. my goodness, this is really an achievement. it is very heavy, i might add. >> 10 pounds. >> 10 pounds? this is something else. full of some of the best work over the course of your career. i want to talk about some of the people whose names people may not know. let's start with some they do. vladimir putin, a photograph taken in december of 2007. for you, it's not just about the image, it's the story behind it. what should we know about this photograph? >> well, i photographed him in his private dasher in the middle of a forest outside of moscow. i'm led into the building at

gunpoint, snipers everywhere on a security wall outside. i remember he walks in with a giant entourage. i said to him, you know, mr. president, before we make history together and capture this moment, i've got a question for you. i would like to know if you ever listen to the beatles. i was brought up by my parents listening to the beatles. they translate in his ear. confusing looks amongst his entourage. his mood drops. in russian, he orders the two translators and all his political advisors out of the room immediately. the bodyguards stay. then he turns to me and in perfect english, he says, "i love the beatles." i said, "i didn't know you spoke english." he said, "i speak perfect english." i said, "okay. who is your favorite?" he said, "paul." i said, "what is your favorite song, "back in the ussr?"

he didn't like that at all. then he turns to me and says, "no, my favorite song is "yesterday." think about it. i've thought about it many years since i took that picture. what he was doing was sending me a message about the old days through a paul mccartney song. that human connection let me in. i ended an inch and a half away from his nose. i felt his breath on my hand. i got the truth, the face of power and authority in russia. he is formidable. he is a strategist. he's not to be underestimated. i believe he knows much more about us than we know about him. >> he's in the midst of reassembling yesterday, attempting to anyway, putting the soviet union back together. i can hear people, platon, listen to your story about putin and saying, how does he fit into

the story of the defenders? what is the theme of this book, and how does he fit? >> well, the defenders is a superhero title, but the people i'm celebrating in the book are not powerful people. they're ordinary people who do extraordinary things. they take oppression, and they take trauma and pain, and they transform their own pain into compassion for others. they fight for civil rights around the world. i called the book "the defenders" because i wanted to honor their struggle. whenever i had certain people in my archive that would broaden the context, i thought i should put them in. i put in a lot of political leaders whenever i had them, if they were relevant. i wanted to show what the defenders movement is up against. to give us a sense of, you know,

broader landscape, that they're struggling against. it cuts across from russia to the congo to the middle east with the arab spring and also to america. >> jumping around just a little bit to show the other side of that story in russia, the riot, calling up dissidents who spoke out against the man you photographed in 2007. tell us about this image. >> you know them probably as the hard core feminist punk rock group who spoke truth to power against putin's nationalism. if you remove the colorful masks, you see something different. you see two young women. you see the vulnerability on their face. this is nadia and marcia after they were released from siberian prison for nearly two years for standing up against authority. now, during their trial, nadia, the woman with dark hair who is the co-founder of pussy riot, she's become a friend of mine.

great lady. the judge asked her to stand up and make her closing statement. they were kept in a cage as if they were wild animals. nadia nervously stood up in her cage and read out from some scrappy notes she'd made on a piece of paper. what she said to the judge and to the world, i think, goes down as one of our generation's greatest speeches. if i may, i'd like to just say a word that she said. she said, i wouldn't give people labels. there are no winners or losers here. injured paries or accused. we just need to make contact. to establish a dialogue and a joint search for truth, to seek wisdom together, to be to be fi together rather than stigmatizing and labeling people. that's one of the worst things that people can do. to say that before you go to jail to euro pressers is one of the most powerful statement to

call for reconciliation, call for dialogue, call for respectful debate, that is an incredible thing and i think we need much more of that our society, less judgmental opinions, more curiosity. >> in the united states, the image of donald trump in 20303, i believe it was? >> right. >> so more than 20 years ago. he was the apprentices guy, a celebrity who 13 years later would become president of the united states. tell us about that image. >> well, i said to him, you know, donald, we have all followed your career many, many years. no one can doubt it's an extraordinary career path you've had. but there is always something about you. there is always this air of tension and controversy about things you say and do in public, and i'm sure it's intentional on your part, but it feels to me as if you are in the middle of an

emotional storm. personally, i couldn't live with that anxiety and tension all the time. so i want to know how you weather the storm. he calmly looked at me and said, i am the storm. i had those words ringing out through the election campaign, throughout his presidency, post-presidency, now in another election campaign and i keep thinking to myself, there is only one person who can navigate perfectly through the storm, and that's the creator of the storm. again, he is not to be underestimated. he is formidable. he is a strategist. he has his own plans. don't underestimate the power of donald trump. >> and let's look at one of the defenders finally, evelyn velazquez. youth protester for immigrant rights, being processed for deportation in the united states in phoenix in july of 2013.

what a shot this is. >> i went to this march and there were women and children and families marching for immigrants rights. i saw this beautiful little girl, she was 3, marching with her mom. she had a t-shirt with "free my dad" on it. evelyn is citizen. her father is citizen. her father is not. caught without papers. deported. this young family is now torn apart by a flawed immigration system in our country that has not been sort of updated since ronald reagan days. the family faces extreme uncertainty now. but this little girl had something beautiful. so i went up to her mom and said, can i take your little girl's picture? she said, sure. when the little girl saw my cameras, assistants, lighting on the side of the street, she got spooked and hid behind her mom's legs. that's not the picture i wanted to take of a frightened little

girl. so to earn her trust i had to play balloons with evelyn for five hours. eventually, she turns to me and says, picture. so i took a picture and i was so inspired by her empowerment in the picture. i turned to her mother and said, i think i have taken one of the most important pictures of my life. much more important than any world leader. with this picture we humanize the data. i said, thank you. the mother turns to her daughter and says, the photographer is very happy. you did good. evelyn turns around and says, mommy, if i did so good, does that mean daddy can come home? it's time we started putting humanity back into the numbers because nothing -- numbers mean nothing without a story. a human story. >> and everyone of these photographs has one. we have covered less than an ounce of these ten pounds.

"the defenders, heroes of the fight for global human rights." platon, thank you for being here. ahead, we learned speaker mike johnson will be at the manhattan courthouse this morning in a show of solidarity with donald trump. this is michael cohen set to return to the witness stand for a second day of testimony. live to the courthouse for the very latest as cohen leaves his apartment headed south for court today. "morning joe's" coming right back.

live picture of the courthouse in lower manhattan where michael cohen will resume his testimony under direct questioning from the prosecutor about 90 minutes from now. and we just learned that sitting house speaker mike johnson will join donald trump at the courthouse today. we know that donald trump has had people acting as his defenders since he is under a gag order. this is michael cohen heading downtown to resume that testimony. again, house speaker, the sitting speaker of the house of representatives, will join donald trump as one of his defenders outside the courthouse. "morning joe's" coming right back.

. then we got to the porn starriness of it all. trump's defense is, i never slept with stormy daniels and i didn't pay her to be quiet. michael cohen paid her to be quiet because he is such a great guy who i hope is torn apart by wild dogs. i only paid him legal fees. i did everything i did, which i didn't do, to protect my wife from finding out the things i never did. >> stephen colbert last night. that consequential day in court yesterday in donald trump's

cultural hush money trial with former fixer and attorney michael cohen on the stand. we'll continue toed it. expert legal analysis on that testimony and what we should expect in a few hours. also, major developments in gaza. israel's military battling regrouped hamas terrorists in the north while weighing a full-scale assault on rafah in the south. the latest from ukraine and the surprise visit today by u.s. secretary of state antony blinken. russian president vladimir putin is set to make a state visit to china later this week. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." tuesday, may 14. with us the host of way too early white house bureau chief at politico jonathan lemire, u.s. special correspondent for bbc news katty kay and editor of the "washington post" eugene robinson. good morning to you all. a very busy morning. there is a lot to watch today in new york city. mainly, for a lot of us it's a

pivotal game at madison square garden at 8:00. >> yeah, there is no doubt about it. we could talk about a lot of news today, but for most new yorkers that are sports fans, you included, willie, it's the knicks. those of us outside of the greater tri-state area, it's the great pumpkin because, let me tell you, every spring new york knicks fans will tell you the great pumpkin rises from the pumpkin patch in the east and brings toys and goodies to all good boys and girls only to wake up the next morning and have their hearts broken. i don't know. maybe this year, willie, will be different. are you going tonight? >> i am not going, but i will be locked in and borderline comatose tomorrow morning, having stayed up late to watch the game. i will say we have learned the last, i don't know, 51 years, not to actually expect too much in the spring from our team.

this year felt different because of jalen brunson, because of this team. two nights ago they were blown out of the building in indiana and what's worse, they are hurt. they look exhausted. they have been through a long season, undermanned. let's see if they can dig deep. the crowd will be behind them. they have to win. they absolutely have to win tonight. don't want to go back to indiana down 3-2. this team has given us reason to believe all season. i will continue to believe. >> let's see. i am not traditionally a new york sports fan other than joe namath's new york jets. here is something undeniably cool about the knicks or the rangers doing well, doing well. the knicks at madison square garden, you know, for those of us of a certain age, madison square garden, i mean, that's where everything happened, whether you're talking about the knicks in the early '70s,

whether you're talking about the fight of the century, which, by the way, was billed the fight of the century in 1971 and ended up being the fight of the century. ali and -- yeah, they billed that right. ali/phrase early. if the knicks could play well in madison square garden, how exciting that would be for all sports fans. >> look, i will be rooting for the knicks. i don't really have a dog in this fight, right? i mean, i am not usually a huge knicks fan or pacers fan. but, boy, the knicks, it's so great in the garden when they are playing well. >> it is. >> the crowd is just crazy. i think it's unlike any other place. it's a moment. and tonight would be a real moment because the knicks are so beat up. i mean, there are hardly any of

them left. do they have ten guys who they can put out on the court? it's amazing. and jalen brunson is just a superstar as far as i'm concerned. i hope they can do it. we need a lillis reed moment. >> can i jump in? >> sure. >> i am taking notes because i am off to l.a. to interview magic johnson as one does. >> no way! >> seriously. that's why i won't be on the show on thursday. you gave me a lot to talk about. this is great. my starting level is like somewhere under the table here. this is helpful, guys, thank you. one team. >> i love that. >> knicks, got it. >> yeah, talk a lot about boston celtics and you will be fine when you talk to magic. we have a lot to talk about in news today, willie. one thing, willie, jumped out to me today. and it's so strange.

you have all of these people protesting in support of hamas. there is a "new york times" story that shows -- talks about just how oppressive. secret files show hamas spying on its people. how oppressive and what total tyrants hamas was when they ran gaza. something you don't usually hear in the media. certainly don't hear from those college campus protesters. how unpopular hamas was inside of gaza, because they didn't broker any dissent. they followed people around. they spied on their personal lives. of course, as we all know, but nobody talks about, if there was any dissent at all, you'd end up with a bullet in the back of your head if you were a palestinian or pushed off the top of a building. this "new york times" story begins to tell the truth about hamas. i must say, news coverage the past six months has been

deplorable. they haven't pointed out what dividend french pointed out, that hamas and isis, really the same. and the fact that american college students have gone out in support for a force that is the moral equivalent of isis shows hillary clinton is right. some of them had no idea who they were cheering on. >> yeah. this is interesting reporting, but not surprising to most people who know anything about hamas and the way they ran gaza or if you woke up to hamas on october 7th and seen the videos, read the stories, heard the details, horrifying accounts of what happened that day. that's all you need to know about hamas. in fact, what it has done to its own people is detailed in this story. we will talk about that in our next segment with richard engle reporting live from the region. we begin in new york. michael cohen returning to the witness stand later this morning after testifying for more than

six hours yesterday. nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett has a recap of the day in court. >> reporter: a highly anticipated courtroom showdown. prosecutors star witness michael cohen, former patient's self-described fixer turned fierce critic, telling the injury mr. trump directed him to pay off an adult film actress to protect his campaign. everything required mr. trump's sign-off, cohen told the jury, testifying mr. trump was furious in 2016 when he learned stormy daniels was still trying to sell her story of sex with the former president, telling cohen, i thought you had this under control. cohen explaining he had managed to suppress daniels' story years before but it resurfaced on the heels of the "access hollywood" tape and cohen feared if daniels went public, it would be, quote, catastrophic for the campaign. saying, mr. trump told him, just

take care of it. this is a disaster. women are going to hate me. guys may think this is cool, but this is going to be a disaster for the campaign. cohen said mr. trump told him he met daniels at a golf tournament, describing her as a beautiful woman. mr. trump has denied he had sex with daniels and pleaded not guilty to charges of illegally disguising his reimbursement checks to cohen as legal expenses on his internal books and records. the defense team arguing there was no crime, that cohen was his personal attorney at the time handling a perm matter to avoid his family embarrassment. home opener hicks previously testifying mr. trump did not want newspapers with details of a hush money payment to a different woman delivered to their home. but cohen suggesting that mr. trump wasn't concerned about melania's reaction. he wasn't thinking about her. this was all about the campaign. cohen adding, mr. trump told him, i want you to just push it out as long as you can, just get

past the election because if i win, it will have no relevance and if i lose i don't even care. testifying he told mr. trump he what to pay daniels as part of a nondisclosure agreement, opting to use money from a home equity line of credit and mr. trump was appreciative, saying words to the effect of, don't worry, you'll get the money back. the state trying to show that daniels' payoff wasn't isolated, part of a pattern. cohen admitting he secretly recorded his client while they discussed repaying the "national enquirer" which purchased the story of another women who said she had sex with mr. trump, which he denies. prosecutors have presented no direct evidence mr. trump knew about or told anyone to falsify business records, so cohen's credibility here key. telling jurors, mr. trump never used email because too many people have gone down once

prosecutors obtain their emails. cohen now a disbarred attorney convicted for lying under oath. the defense argues he is out for revenge after he didn't get a job in the white house. cohen testifying he would have liked to have been considered for white house chief of staff for his, quote, ego. >> there is no fraud here. there is no crime here. this is four weeks of keeping me from not campaigning. >> let's bring in former litigator and msnbc legal correspondent, lisa rubin. michael cohen explicitly describing how he says this went down directly ordered by donald trump to send the check for $130,000, quoting donald trump as saying just do it. >> yep. >> apologies to nike. what did we learn yesterday from michael cohen? >> michael cohen testified to a number of conversations, willie, that he had profitly with donald trump or other participants,

sometimes david pecker, for example, allen weisselberg. again and again michael cohen showed that when he said he made these payments in coordination with and at the direction of donald trump, he really meant it. you will recall that yesterday i sat here with you and said i'm interested to see how michael cohen fleshes out that phrase at the direction of. was that code, meaning did trump wink, winks, nod, nod, take care of this, or was he explicit in asking michael cohen to make sure that stormy daniels got paid and then also equally explicit in how they were going to account for that through paperwork. michael cohen left that unambiguous yesterday. donald trump knew. he intended for michael cohen to pay stormy daniels, not only repaid, paid in a way that left michael cohen in good standing, a, with taxes, b, with a little extra for the bonus that he was stiffed at the end of 2016, and he knew the entire time that it would be papered over as legal expenses. michael cohen filled those gaps

yesterday. >> and michael cohen made clear that this to donald trump, according to michael cohen's account, was about protecting his election hopes. it wasn't about protecting his marriage. that was michael cohen's assessment anyway, saying this was all about the campaign push, if i get elected nobody cares. how significant is that? >> very, because you really the defense wants to say this was about the family. the principal objective even if donald trump knew about it, not for the campaign. there was no conspiracy here to promote donald trump's election through unlawful means. michael cohen said he asked trump, how is this going to go upstairs, meaning when a story broke about karen mcdougal? trump said back to him, don't worry about that. how long do you think i'd be on the market for? not long. you know, trump basically also saying to cohen, even if my wife is that upset by that, don't worry. i'll be taken care of. i'll find another woman other

than melania. that's not a person who is concerned about the impact on their iphone. >> so much made of michael cohen's credibility. maybe he lied to congress. he spent time in prison. just give us your assessment as to how he did yesterday in terms of demeanor. there have been worries he might lose his temper at some point. and was he believable? did he do what the prosecution wanted? >> i think he did. the best thing i can say about michael cohen yesterday is he was humble. he took responsibility for things he hasn't for in the past and he did so without being grudging about it. basically said, for example, he was repaid $50,000, john, when he was repaid for the stormy daniels payment, also got a $50,000 payment for vaender that trump had stiffed. he paid that vendor partially but not totally and yet asked the trump organization give me all $50,000. what did he cop to yesterday? he pocketed the remainder that.

taking responsibility for bullying and lying for the former president dozens of times, not being the best guy and also coming to basically uncharged criminal conduct yesterday. for example, lying in his statements to first republic bank when he was trying to open an llc account the vehicle through which he repaid stormy daniels. if he keeps that demeanor on cross-examination, maintain that same humility, i think his credibility will be better than people any. at the same time, i watched the segment this morning with matt lewis. michael cohen is not a hero. he is a person who has been complicit in some bad things in the past. that doesn't mean he is not telling the truth now. it also doesn't mean he is an american patriot and hero. >> that is the foundation of the defense, which we may start to hear later today. we will have more direct examination the beginning of the day and perhaps cross begins

later. the foundation of the defense's argument this is not a credible witness, so discount everything you are hearing from him. >> yeah, he was prepped carefully for the prosecution's questioning and he performed well. he managed -- this was not the bully we heard of, this is not hope hicks described him as someone self-centered and uncharitable. he came across well. the question is going to be, lisa, do you get any inclination how he performed yesterday how he is going to hold up once gets under cross when the pressure is more, they are going to try to push his buttons. that's what cross-examination does. that's their goal to do that with donald trump as a complete aside, i'm still sort of digesting all the things that donald trump said about i won't be on the market very long, don't worry about me. i don't know how that goes down with women in the jury. lisa, do you get a kind of sense how he will hold up under cross? >> impossible to say how much a

witness gets rattled. i watched michael cohen's cross-examination? in the civil fraud trial. he was rattled. he has maintained, for example, that while he lied to congress, he was not formally charged with perjury. he maintains he made those lies for donald trump's behest. if michael cohen doesn't insist on semantics today and continues to accept responsibility and says things like, for example, my ego was hurt when i wasn't considered for chief of staff but i knew i wasn't qualified for the job. if that's the michael cohen that shows up for cross, the prosecutors will be in better standing than people think. we know the michael cohen we have seen in the past who showed up on network time and time again and many others, the michael cohen of his podcasts and books. if that's the guy who appears at cross-examination, that's going to be a different story for the prosecution.

so let's see how michael cohen performs today. yesterday was the most humble i have before seen michael cohen and was pleasantly surprised to see him accept so much responsibility and take it all on the chin, say he loved the job that eventually turned out to be massive disappointment to him and that's an understatement. >> an interesting note in cohen's testimony, he described the line locker room took about the "access hollywood" tape to melania tape, that was her idea. thank you so much. still ahead on "morning joe," the latest from the middle east as troop movements suggest israel soon could expand operations if in rafah despite international warnings. richard engle joins us from jerusalem next on "morning joe." "

the united states has seen troop movement that indicates israel soon could expand operations in the southern gaza city of rafah, according to two u.s. officials who say the idf amassed enough personnel on the edge of the city to go through with the plan. palestinians are following israel's evacuation orders. the u.n. says nearly 450,000 people have fled rafah just in the past week. more than 1 million people had sought refuge there. and in northern gaza, israeli troops are fighting hamas terrorists in areas israel said it clears.

nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engle reports from jerusalem. >> reporter: israel throughout it defeated hamas in northern gaza but the militants have regrouped and are not fighting from the rubble. once the government of gaza that triggered a war when they stormed into israel and carried out a massacre, hamas has become an insurgency. and as the united states learned in afghanistan and iraq, insurgencies can last for decades. in southern gaza, israel is expanding military operations in rafah despite warnings from president biden about the risk to civilians. israel claims hamas has four battalions of fighters in rafah and ordered the evacuation of large sections of the city. >> that's the sixth time i evacuate from anywhere i was in. so i feel so lost. >> reporter: this time israel is telling palestinians to go to an area on the mediterranean coast.

but palestinians say there is nothing for them there. no tents. no food. no future. >> are we going to keep living in this on going loop? >> reporter: our crew found these men packing up pieces of their own bombed-out home so they could build shelters with the debris. while hamas fighters are nowhere to be seen, they brought this war to gaza, but now provide no services and no help. they've gone underground, ready for a long insurgency apparently at any cost. >> richard, thank you so much. richard engle joins us now. thank you so much for being with us, richard. richard, i'd love for you, if you could, provide some context because we've seen the suffering of the israeli people on october 7th. we have seen the suffering of the gazan people since that time. and for good reason there has

been a lot of focus on the civilian casualties in gaza. but it has at times papered over just the heinous nature of hamas itself, not just as a terrorist organization, but also as rulers of tyrants over the past 15 years. my word. not yours. but there is a "new york times" article that talks about a sort of a secret police where they brokered absolutely no dissent, complete authoritarians and would follow young people, older people around, digging into the most personal parts of their lives, and using against them. just -- and also that, as you know, at the time of the attacks, hamas was not even popular among the majority of people in gaza. so, you have the gauzen people really no good guys for the gauzen people now.

could you explain that to our viewers following up on this "new york times" article? >> reporter: yes, absolutely. i have seen quite a bit of that myself. now it's impossible for foreign journalists to get into gaza because israel is not allowing access. but i used to go to gaza regularly, and hamas was once elected. so at one stage people did give them an opportunity because they were not comfortable with the previous palestinian authority. they wanted change. so they did vote them in. but then hamas took over in a violent coup, killed the opposition, and were ruling through terror. whenever i had encounters with hamas or the palestinians that i was working with in gaza, had encounters with hamas, they were frightening experiences. you didn't want hamas coming to your door and asking questions about you or asking questions about your reports. you were afraid of them. palestinians i worked with

wanted as little to do with hamas as humanly possible. and, yes, they kept track on people. they kept files on people. they ruled through fear. they barely provided services. they were the government, but mostly they were a military organization. they liked to talk about their weapons. they liked to show off their weapons. they liked to show off their fighters, generally masked, and they left the basic running of gaza to groups like the u.n. now that is no longer working. hamas has moved underground and they are exclusively a militant organization that seems to be preparing for a long guerilla war. there is so much talk about sinwar, the kind of osama bin laden. i saw him when i was in gaza before. i can tell you what that experience was like. i as in gaza covering some of

the -- there were clashes at the time. there were often clashes not on the level of october 7th, but often mid to serious level fighting in gaza. and i was there. we were covering it. we were recording it. suddenly, there was an excitement. people started noticing something was happening, something's happening. i saw a long convoy of cars, maybe they were 10, 15 similar cars driving in a convoy to the area where we were and people started saying, oh, it's sinwar, sinwar's coming. he didn't make that many public appearances. so we start trying to get near him so i could throw him a question, and he got out of the car-. there was a crush. there was a -- he a lot of security with him and people pushing and shoving. i ended up getting shoved more or less in front of his face and i tried -- i asked him a few questions. he answered. nothing particularly important what he said. just about how palestinians are

going to resist. and then he got back in his car and left. but it was the presence that i noticed that was so different. people were excited to see him, excited that he was making this appearance and also very much afraid. he was coming out with this huge convoy. it was an event. it wasn't like a normal politician where people come and they're happy to see them and glad, babies and singing their praises. he arrived. the mood in the room -- we were actually in an open field. the mood in the field changed. there was certainly an air, a sense of menace. wow, weighs there. he had heavy security. i was pushed and shoved, as other people were, and he got in the car and left. that's kind of the way the hamas leadership operated. they would come. they would make an appearance and then disappear. they didn't have a great it seemed, affection for or from the people.

>> nbc's richard engle in jerusalem. thank you for your reporting as always. next on "morning joe" -- >> he actually appointed you, tim? and think of it. appointed and you're the senator of his state, and she endorsed me. you must really hate her? no. it's a shame. it's a shame. uh-oh. >> i just love you. >> no, that's -- that's why he is a great politician. >> the race for donald trump's running mate, a sad exercise in self-debasement straight ahead on "morning joe." raight ahead on "morning joe. i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪

feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and the majority of people experienced long-lasting remission at one year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine or plan to. liver problems may occur in crohn's disease. ♪ now's the time to ask your gastroenterologist how you can take control of your crohn's with skyrizi. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ ♪ learn how abbvie could help you save.

voters. donald trump is focused on himself. >> 34 felony counts of falsifying business records and ordered to commit or conceal another crime. >> why is the president having trouble with younger voters? >> dismissed as a potential juror. what happened? >> what are the issues that motivate you the most? ♪♪ ♪♪ you asked in the column for "the washington post," how is

any of this making israel more secure? in it you write, quote, nature abhors a vacuum, which is what israel is, unwisely creating on orders from netanyahu and the war cabinet the israel defense forces eliminated the hamas government apparatus in the northern part of gaza. the idf headed south without leaving any new system of authority in place. it was a matter of time before the remnants of hamas emerged to reimpose some semblance of order. gene, let you flesh that argument out a little bit. >> i do think a vacuum is being created. and, you know, i certainly understand why many palestinians would be relieved to be out from under hamas. at the same time, there certainly -- they were not thrilled with the way that was done, and now they have no services. the u.n. can barely function to

provide anything. there is a vacuum there. and it's being refilled, i think, by hamas. we saw fighting break out, some pretty fierce fighting in which israeli soldiers were killed over the weekend in northern gaza, the part of gaza that israel first went into, that first cleared. remember they went into the hospital and they found the tunnels underneath. you know, automatic around there, a refugee camp north of there. they cleared that area, but now there is new fighting there because hamas didn't disappear. it went to ground. so this insurgency war that we were talking about has begun. and the israelis now have had to go back and sort of refight for

territory that they had once already cleared. i don't see why we wouldn't expect the exact same thing to happen for the south. and if they go into rafah, again i think that's where we're going to end up. we will end up -- and i don't see how that makes israel more secure in the long run. to have utter chaos on the border with hamas being essentially the armed force that's conducting an insurgency. and probably not staying on that side of the border. >> nbc news has the reporting this morning that the united states officials see troop movements that indicate to them that israel will go into rafah. that has been something of a red line for the president, says you can't just go smashing into rafah. does prime minister netanyahu care what president biden is

threatening? >> they said they will go in alone if they have. the u.s.,en the president's orders, said we will not provide offensive weapons for an all-out invasion of rafah. the fighting on the outskirts of town has not crossed the red line. this president has said time and again they will continue to send defensive weapons to israel. it's about this operation in rafah. but netanyahu has consistently ignored often what the white house wants and how to conduct this war. so the u.s. officials that i spoke to yesterday on this matter said they can't tell if it's days, probably weeks before a real full-on invasion goes on. they are not sure what it will accomplish. yesterday in public is what a lot of u.s. officials have been saying in private for some time. deputy secretary of state kurt campbell, top ranking official at the state department, spoke at a nato event yesterday and said the biden administration does not believe that israel's current strategy against hamas will lead to, quote, total

victory. no sense of what the real sense of a win would be in part because of what gene described, willie, and that hamas had be able to reconstitute in some way, shape or form, even for renegade radicalized terrorists. coming up, the inside story of presidents in crisis through the years. george stephanopoulos with his new book inside the situation room. that conversation just ahead on "morning joe." choosing a treatment for your chronic migraine - 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting 4 hours or more - can be overwhelming. so, ask your doctor about botox®. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they even start. it's the #1 prescribed branded chronic migraine treatment. so far, more than 5 million botox® treatments have been given to over eight hundred and fifty thousand

chronic migraine patients. effects of botox® may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. alert your doctor right away, as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems, or muscle weakness can be signs of a life-threatening condition. side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue, and headache. don't receive botox® if there's a skin infection. tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions and medications, including botulinum toxins, as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. in a survey, 92% of current users said they wish they'd talked to their doctor and started botox® sooner. so, ask your doctor if botox® is right for you. learn how abbvie could help you save on botox®. why choose a sleep number smart bed? can it keep me warm when i'm cold? wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. can i make my side softer? i like my side firmer. sleep number does that. can it help us sleep better and better? please? sleep number does that.

94 percent of smart sleepers report better sleep. now, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, 0% interest for 36 months. shop now at sleepnumber.com (♪♪) your pain shouldn't be minimized or forgotten. (♪♪) when medicine gets better, all of us can get better.

reason to show support for a friend. luckily the president's supporters should know he is actually in great spirits despite the circumstances of this. >> i am here to represent and pay my respects to what president trump is going through. it's a tough time for him. that courtroom is depressing. this is new york city. we got a courtroom that's most depressing thing i ever been in.

mental anguish is trying to be pushed on republican candidate for the president of the united states. that's all this is. republican candidate for president of the united states is going through mental anguish in a courtroom that's very depressing. very depressing. >> we have in tommy tuberville a man who gutted america's military readiness for a year, tried to gut america's military readiness for a year, and general, admirals, whether they were active or retired, were saying as much, that by holding up families, holding up officers from moving on to their next position was completely decimating the readiness for some people. so this guy giving anybody a lecture on morality? and again being obsessed with the interior decorating of a new york city courtroom?

it's beyond bizarre. again, all i can say is, it's just about the vice presidential sweepstakes. everybody wants to be vice president for donny. >> but it is -- first of all, ridiculous how they are treating the courtroom like a debate spin room. bring your surrogates up there to do the post-debate spin. but then with tuberville, it was revealing the only thing he could say is that it was depressing, right? you know, trump is under moral anguish. trump wants us to think he is fine with all of this, this isn't hurting him at all. i don't know why tuberville is saying he is under moral anguish and the place is depressing. that's making trump a sad sack. that's not what trump goes for. he is the guy with the ivf ruling in alabama, says that's good, we need more babies. i don't know if he goes too deep on what's actually happen. >> j.d. vance called donald

trump reprehensible, said i am a proud never trump guy in 2016. called him, quote, cultural heroin, meaning it might feel good for a minute, but it will kill you in the end, talking about donald trump, and now he is standing outside the courtroom. in some ways a brilliant move by donald trump. i am not violating the gag order but i will lemmings who say whatever i tell them to say. let's parade them into new york city. >> yeah. and he could fill that courtroom with as many of those vice presidential wannabes as he chooses to, right? i am sure there will be a steady parade of them as they try out for the role of standing by like a statue, they hope, if donald trump is president and nodding the way mike pence did for four years. j.d. vance is a particular case, as joe says. i mean, this is a guy who was mr. sort of fleece vest venture

capital, you know, guy. that's who he was. he was kind of, you know, "the young and the restless" glenn youngkin of old. he was totally anti-trump and a pretty good brighter he wrote "hillbilly elegy," and that made him of a kind of a star, the poor white people. and then -- and now he is just this completely different person. completely different person. because that's what he sees as his political and ultimately financial interest. it's disgusting. it really is. coming up, a live report from the new york city courthouse where michael cohen will be back on the stand today in the state's case against former president donald trump. a preview of his testimony straight ahead on "morning joe."

[coughing] copd hasn't been pretty. it's tough to breathe and tough to keep wondering if this is as good as it gets. but trelegy has shown me that there's still beauty and breath to be had. because with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy keeps my airways open and prevents future flare-ups. and with one dose a day, trelegy improves lung function so i can breathe more freely all day and night. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur.

♪ what a wonderful world ♪ ask your doctor about once-daily trelegy for copd because breathing should be beautiful. if you think you have dupuytren's contracture, there's a simple test you can take—from anywhere. try to lay your hand flat against a surface. if you can't, you may have dupuytren's contracture. talk to a hand specialist about your options, including nonsurgical treatments. are you keeping as much of your investment gains as possible? high taxes can erode returns quickly.

at creative planning, your portfolio is managed in a tax-efficient manner. it's what you keep that really matters. book your free meeting today at creativeplanning.com.

♪♪ ♪♪ that was the band bikini kill playing their hit song "rebel girl" in 1993. 30 years later the group is still touring and still fighting for many of the same women's rights issues that made them pioneers of the '90s feminist movement in the punk scene. joining us is kathleen hannah. she's the author of a new memoir titled "rebel girl, my life as a feminist punk." why did you write this book now after 30 years of writing and performing music?

>> i had a huge luggage set full of stories. i needed to unpack those stories before i could move into the next iteration of my life. i sat down and kind of started writing. >> we were watching that performance from the early '90s and you've before performing ever since then. how does it feel to know now there's a generation of female performers who are looking up to you? >> it's amazing. i heard from olivia rodrigo that she was influenced by bikini kill. she's a mainstream pop star publicly working for women's rights. that's so amazing to see in the

mainstream. it's not something that has to be relegated to a niche punk community. it can be everywhere. also it's the everyday interactions i have with women. a woman told me she sang the lyrics to some of the songs i had written in her head during a horrific rape trial she was going through. i really felt like that was bigger than any grammy. i was like, wow, something that i wrote helping a woman get through a horrible time is such an honor. >> i have to fan girl for a minute. if people think that kurt cobain is cool, kathleen hanna is the one -- you wrote smells like

teen spiral on his wall. >> it was on his bedroom wall in sharpie marker. i'd had a little to drink. we were kind of in the same scene at the same time. olympia, washington, was a really great place to be an independent music person. we influenced each other. that's the beauty of underground scenes that aren't taken over by corporations. there's a give and take of helping each other record, giving each other ideas. >> what's great about this book for young women now and people looking to inspire young women now, as a pioneer in the punk rock scene, what you went through is sort lessons for women trying to do hard things.

now 30 years along, you write about instead of worrying about combatting sexism necessarily, let me think about how it impacts me. what's your message to young girls about how they can control how they react to sexism? >> a lot of times we get taken off whatever path that we want to be on and the things that we're fascinated by because we have all this stuff thrown at us. it's like we're standing on a balance beam trying to eat a bowl of soup with somebody shooting nerf guns at us. to me it's always been friends and humor, finding the people i really care about to support me and being able to laugh at kind of the crap that comes my way, the sexism that has kind of been a constant throughout my career. >> kathleen hanna, who got jen palmieri to fan girl.

the book is "rebel girl, my life as a feminist punk." thanks so much for joining us this morning. >> thanks for having me. coming up, we'll get a life report from the court case in lower manhattan where donald trump is joined by house speaker mike johnson. we'll have the latest for you on "morning joe." the latest for yn "morning joe." each day is a unique blend of people to see and things to do. that's why you choose glucerna to help manage blood sugar response. uniquely designed with carbsteady. glucerna. bring on the day.

why choose a sleep number smart bed? can it keep me warm wwhen i'm cold?. wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. now, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, 0% interest for 36 months. shop now at sleepnumber.com

and they're all coming? those who are still with us, yes.

grandpa! what's this? your wings. light 'em up! gentlemen, it's a beautiful... ...day to fly. ♪♪ a live picture of san francisco. 6:00 on the dot here in the west. 9:00 a.m. in the east. molly jong-fast is with us. she is an msnbc political analyst. we start with donald trump

getting a show of support this morning from house speaker mike johnson. the former president's hush-money criminal trial picks back up in moments. the house speaker will attend the trial today in new york city as michael cohen returns to the witness stand for a second day of questioning. laura jarrett reports. >> reporter: this morning, michael cohen back on the stand, the state's star witness expected to face a grilling by the defense team as soon as today. on monday, cohen telling jurors donald trump instructed him to pay off a porn star on the eve of the 2016 election and then approved a plan to pay him back. cohen said mr. trump told him, quote, just take care of it, describing a campaign in damage control after the "access hollywood" tape leaked. he described how his former boss

was dead set on keeping stormy daniels quiet once he learned she planned to go public about a one night stand. he was in despair saying, this is a disaster, women are going to hate me. guys may think it's cool, but this is a disaster for the campaign. cohen testifying mr. trump wasn't concerned about his wife melania's reaction, saying trump talked about finding another wife. he goes, quote, how long do you think i'll be on the market for? not long. he said if i win, it has no relevance. if i lose, i don't care. the former president's reimbursement of cohen for paying daniels off and how prosecutors allege it was hidden in mr. donald trump's internal books as legal expenses at the

heart of the 34 felony counts the former president has pled not guilty to. >> there's no crime here. there is weeks of keeping me from campaigning. >> reporter: cohen walking the jury through a critical meeting he says he had at trump tower where the men hashed out how cohen would be repaid, in monthly installments, the only witness to testify about trump's advance knowledge of the plan. >> we've had a parade of republicans down at the courthouse to support the former president. he's used this perhaps cleverly and strategically as a way around the gag order. i'm not saying anything. it's just them saying exactly what i told them to say. today the speaker of the house of representatives, mike johnson, is going to be at the courthouse, with doug bergham,

apparently doing the work of the good people of north dakota by being there. what do you make of this spectacle of republicans running to be beside him? >> there's two things going on here. one is the veep stakes. these people are so desperate to be his vice president, by the way, learning nothing from mike pence. how did this turn out for mike pence? they're just parading down there to defend their guy. trump has gotten very lucky there. speaker johnson, this is a huge mistake that will have downstream effects that i don't think he quite understands. republicans are trying desperately to keep the house. they have all of these front-line candidates, and he's going to go to this criminal court where trump's fixer is testifying about his sexual relationships. >> running interference in a

trial in which donald trump is alleged to have paid off a porn star for an affair he allegedly had while his wife melania was home with their infant son. >> conversely, i think, remember trump bailed out johnson a few weeks ago. this might be johnson trying to pay him back or at least curry favor. he has to placate the fringe right in his party or most of his party. >> the christian conservatives, you know, it's not just defending january 6th or something. it's defending the affair with a porn star. it is the ugliest thing. but trump will remember this, right? this is important to him. >> it shows that he serves at the pleasure of donald trump. he's not really the speaker of the house.

he really is just an arm of the trump campaign. >> we saw jd vance yesterday, senator tommy tuberville. now the speaker of the house of representatives will be down there effectively campaigning and defending former president trump. >> i just think back, and i've said this before on the show. i think back to when i was in congress and when i couldn't walk down the street without something telling me, joe, you have to impeach bill clinton on all four counts. the white house must be filled with only godly men. joe, character still counts. we as christians must be a city shining brightly on the hill for all the world. joe, if you don't impeach bill clinton, then you are in effect

saying that we are salt that has lost its seasoning. you pick the new testament verse, and it's all i heard from these people who said it was not only an affront to american democracy, but an affront to the name of jesus christ. and yet here we are, molly. and yet here we are. not only that, but the raging hypocrisy. for a man who has said he has no reason to be forgiven by god, he's never done anything that requires forgiveness from god. if anybody says joe's a sinner, yes, i am. i'm not saying i'm not. i'm just saying they are going

in praise of a man who has said he doesn't need jesus christ's forgiveness, because he's never done anything wrong. then you have jd vance, wearing his little silicon valley fleece, going i love san francisco, some of the greatest people in the world out here. willie, some of those quotes -- i'm sorry, this is so amazing. could you please share for us some of the things senator jd vance, the guy who was the toast of the town for every elite in new york city and san francisco, like, this is how poor white people live in ohio, let me

explain it to you and make myself even richer, which he did before he decided, you know, oh, well, actually i like donald trump. it's been, as paul mccartney would sing, a long and winding road. >> in 2016 he called trump reprehensible, said he was a proud never-trumper. he called donald trump, quote, on pbs, culture heroin. his point was it feels good for a minute, but it kills you in the end, talking about the man he's now running interference for in a new york city courtroom yesterday. >> he then sipped chardonnay and turned and said, is this the only caviar you have? what is this central ohio? he also said that christians

could not support donald trump, circling back to the evangelical hypocrisy. he said in 2016, that you were a christian, you could not support donald trump. >> this is what trumpism has done to the republican party. you used to have people who were normal. most of them are gone. remember jeff flake? i mean, there were normal republicans and they were basically chased to the exits. i think jd vance saw the writing on the wall, and since he is a very smart guy with a very fancy ivy league education, though he pretends not to have it, i think he decided he was going to make the craven play that he was going to go from never trump to trumpy trump. what is amazing to me is, i just wonder if he has these pangs of, oh my god, i have completely

lied about everything, or if he's just so far in it, that he forgets who he was two years ago. >> reprehensible, cultural heroin, christians can't possibly support trump. that was in 2016. i'm thinking back. it's not that donald trump has changed particularly since 2016. so the only factor in that relationship that could have possibly changed is jd vance. i read "hillbilly elegy." i thought it was a good book. is that he wants that much to be vice president? has he had a complete rethink, or is this all cynical politics?

>> i went to a trump rally that trump did for jd vance in detroit right before the 2022 election. trump would say, he had some bad things to say about me, but now it's all okay because he's going to endorse me. that's all that mattered in ohio, was to embrace trump. remember that senate race when tim ryan ran against him, and he played clips over and over again of things that trump said about jd vance that were quite derogatory. that's what jd vance is willing to do. >> the republican party looks at trump and sees a potential president. they see someone who is winning

in a lot of polls. they're going to stand with him even if that means debasing themselves in front of a manhattan courtroom because they see themselves as a potential vice president or cabinet member or ambassador. >> jd vance wrote a piece in "the atlantic" titled "opioid for the masses." he said the eventual comedown will be harsh from donald trump, is the way he worded. same with mike johnson. when he became speaker of the house, he said, go read the bible, that's what i stand for. today he's in the courthouse in lower manhattan defending the guy who's on trial for allegedly paying off a porn star for the alleged affair he had while his wife was home with his infant son. >> i am grateful to the speaker

of the house for doing the right thing on ukraine, very grateful for that. it may be hard for people at home to believe this. i'm cheering for him. i'm cheering for mitch mcconnell when he does something that puts our democracy first and stands in the way of this authoritarian. so i'm a big believer that when we see things that deserve praise, we should do it. david ignatius a couple of weeks ago talking about the trump administration, the abraham accords making some things possible in the middle east. he said when they do good things, we should talk about it. this is just deeply disappointing. again, i want mike johnson to

succeed. donald trump never believed it when nancy pelosi said she prayed for donald trump every day. i know she did. that's what christians actually do. they pray for people that consider them to be the enemy. we're all americans. i want mike johnson to succeed. i want hakeem jeffries, when he's speaker, to succeed. i want america to succeed. it's just really disheartening to see the guy who is third in line or second in line. second in line. roll tide. so anyway. i did not go to an elite ivy league school. anyway, i'm always cheering. i'm dumb enough to always cheer

for whoever's in power. for the guy who's second in line to be president of the united states, this is demeaning for him to be craven to go into that courthouse. i said i didn't think this trial should have been brought. i've always said that. he can say that as speaker of the house. but to be dragged into a courtroom in manhattan, to be a sycophant to donald trump, a guy who has promised to be an authoritarian leader when he gets in power, it's deeply depressing and beneath the dignity of the office. >> this is the former president speaking. you see vivek ramaswamy in that crowd somewhere as well. he's brought an army of sycophants with him to the

courthouse. >> there's a mark leibovich book somewhere in this. >> that really is an image for our times. he'll step into court in just a few minutes where michael cohen will resume his testimony. more on that in just a moment. meanwhile, jury selection in the federal corruption trial of democratic senator bob menendez of new jersey is under way as well. jury selection began yesterday in a manhattan court after senator menendez lost a bid to have his trial moved to his home state of new jersey. prosecutors said they expect to take up to six weeks for the trial. senator menendez is accused of being at the center of an international bribery scheme. his wife, also charged, will be tried separately in july. senator menendez said he will be exonerated at trial and has left the door open to run in november as an independent. we'll go live to the courtroom

in manhattan with michael cohen back on the stand. also ahead, george stephanopoulos joins us with his new book. all of it next on "morning joe." all ioft next on "morning joe." e down there? is it peyronie's disease? will it get worse? how common is it? who can i talk to? can this be treated? stop typing. start talking to a specialized urologist. because it could be peyronie's disease, or pd. it's a medical condition where there is a curve in the erection, caused by a formation of scar tissue. and an estimated 1 in 10 men may have it. but pd can be treated even without surgery. say goodbye to searching online. find a specialized urologist who can diagnose pd and build a treatment plan with you. visit makeapdplan.com today.

it shall be the policy of this nation to regard any nuclear missile launched from cuba against any nation in the western hemisphere as an attack by the soviet union against the united states. >> our government is united in its determination to take all necessary measures in support of freedom and in defense of peace in southeast asia. >> late yesterday i cancelled the carefully planned operation which is under way in iran to position a rescue team for a later withdrawal of american hostages. >> at 7:00 this evening eastern

time, air and naval forces of the united states launched a series of strikes against the headquarters, terrorist facilities and military assets that support muammar gaddafi's subversive activities. >> i ordered american forces to strike iraq. the missiles sent the following message to saddam hussein. when you abuse your own people or threaten your neighbors, you must pay a price. >> at this hour, american and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger. >> tonight, i can report to the american people and to the world that the united states has conducted an operation that killed osama bin laden, the leader of al qaeda. >> those are some of the

consequential actions ordered by american presidents. the new book titled "the situation room" gives an inside account of the situation room on january 6th, 2021. with us now, the book's author george stephanopoulos. he's the host of "good morning america." he also served as a senior advisor in the clinton white house. >> it's nice to hear you and talk about 8:00 bedtimes, something we all share. >> for you, it may be 8:00. you may be healthier than us. for us it's 6:00. it's "wheel of fortune," then boom, we're in bed. what excites me so much about this book is you didn't have a front-row seat to history.

you were a part of history. you were there inside the clinton white house. you saw this happen. you also take readers to a place we've never been before. that's inside the situation room on january 6th. tell us about that and what else we're going to read in this book. >> the most harrowing story in the book, joe, i tracked down a white house situation room duty officer who was actually inside the situation room on january 6th. he talks about driving in for his 12-hour shift around 4:00 a.m. he knew driving in that something was off in the city. he was on duty when the capitol was breached, when the riot broke through a security line at the capitol. what he describes happened next is just unbelievable and stunning. he was in direct contact with the secret service, hearing how much danger vice president mike

pence was in even though you have some politicians like jd vance who now question whether the vice president was really in danger that day. there was no question the vice president was in danger that day. the situation became so harrowing on capitol hill that the white house situation room had to do something that had only been done once before in the history of the united states. that was implement what's called the continuity of government operations. that's a set of procedures that sets up a line of succession set originally by dwight eisenhower to make sure the government survived a nuclear attack. they had to start to implement these procedures on january 6th, setting up different situation rooms, being ready to move people in the government to safe locations. it had only been done once before on 9/11. they started to implement these procedures in january 6th because of what was going on in

the capitol, inspired by the president of the united states. just imagine the white house situation over the course of 60 years that jfk has created has dealt with assassinations and attempted assassinations. they've dealt with terror attacks on 9/11. they've dealt with wars and national disasters. but here on this day, they were dealing with an insurrection against the united states government inspired by the president of the united states. i asked mike stiegler, did the president ever call down to the situation that day. not once. >> wow. that's shocking. congratulations on the book, just full of extraordinary new reporting that lets us inside a room that most americans never will see. you talked before january 6th about the way donald trump, then

president trump, was viewed. tom bossart said this, he was the least disciplined, most disorganized person i've ever seen in my life. what did he and others see inside that room that alarmed them? >> tom had served in george w. bush's administration. there were several veterans of other administrations, like john bolton, who also served in the trump white house. what say they to a person is there was nothing normal about the trump white house and the way the situation room was used. it was used to fire omarosa. that had never happened before. donald trump himself didn't use it all that much. what had been built up in those 60 years with a process that was continued across administrations, republican and democrat, probably the person who rant it best was for george

h.w. bush. i spoke with many situation room duty officers and others who were working at the time describing how they were trying to run the government almost in a way that would keep the policies of the trump administration going despite what the president himself was doing, most notably on the issue of ukraine where they were trying to send aid and assistance to the new government and the president was holding it up because he wanted to have zelenskyy investigate the bidens. >> talk to us about the situation room the morning of tuesday, september 11th, 2021. the president of the united states was not there. he was at a florida education event when the planes hit the world trade center and more. what happened in the situation room?

>> it's an incredible story. first of all, the situation room, they clocked when the first plane went into the world trade center. immediately when that second plane went in, a duty officer said immediately america is under attack. he called those words into the director who was traveling with president bush that day. the most famous words from that day, "america is under attack." what's most incredible about that day and the valor and patriotism was exhibited was the way the duty officers reacted. number one, even if they were off duty that day, they raced in to the situation room to be there. after the second plane hit the world trade center, there were many more planes in the air, and everyone believed the white house was a target. in fact, the white house was

ordered to evacuate. the duty officers were ordered to evacuate three different times, and every single time they just looked up and kept on doing their job. i spoke with one duty officer who said, you know, this is where we fight from. they were determined to do their duty on that day. they passed around little 3 x 5 cards and asked everyone to write down their name and social security numbers. it was called the kill list so they would know who may have died on that day. >> i don't know the degree to which history can give us a sense of what might happen next, but if donald trump gets elected in november, what kinds of usage

of the situation room might happen? >> it's going to be uncontrolled. one thing i pointed out in my chapter on president trump is the most damning testimony of his confidence and character comes from those who had the most senior roles in the situation room. from john bolton, from john kelly. they all talk about how frightened they are by the prospect that he would become president again with no guardrails, without the people serving him in the first term, he'll have a bunch of enablers like those you see sitting with him in the courtroom over the last several days. it's something that is chilling to those who served in the first administration, but who are no longer supporting president trump. >> i have to ask on behalf of mika, who is not there today,

about the grill flame program involving her father and a briefing he gave to president and first lady carter. >> just incredible. i was working on the book early on. that was one-line diary entry in jimmy carter's diary from may 8th, 1980. it said had a briefing in the situation room by parapsychology. i was finally able to come across the naval officer who was there that day who gave him the briefing. what happened was it was jimmy carter and brzezinski and rosalynn carter. it was the time i saw that a first lady was in an official

briefing in the situation room. they had this naval officer who was in an actual program in the united states government in the '70s and '80s where they used psychics who would sit in darkrooms and imagine situations happening around the world. why is that important? may 8th, 1980, was two weeks after the failed rescue mission for the iran hostages. it crippled carter's presidency. the economy was flatlining. he was looking for any information he could possibly get. he gets this briefing on the parapsychology program, doesn't say a word. takes out his notepad and writes one word and slides it across the table to jake stewart. the word was "hostages, can you

do anything"? stewart said they did help locate one hostage who was released later this summer. of course, all the hostages were not released until ronald reagan became president. there was one other interesting brzezinski story. in june of 1980, he gets a call patched through the situation room in the middle of the night from his military aid william odom. odom said there is a series of nuclear ballistic missiles from russia heading towards the united states. we have six minutes before they're going to land. it's the middle of the night. brzezinski takes it in quickly, hangs up the phone and says go get one more briefing and call me back. he didn't want to call the president until they were sure. they would then only have a few minutes to make their decision. in that minute after he hung up

the phone, he reasoned that he just want going to wake his wife up. it would be kinder and more loving if this was going to happen to let it all happen in her sleep. thankfully, a minute later odom called back and said it was a false alarm, but it was an incredibly close call. >> i get chills now hearing you recount that story. i've heard mika talk about that too that he had to make a decision in that moment. george, this is such a fascinating book. the stories are endless. we've just scratched the surface. the book is titled "the situation room, the inside story" is on sale now. george stephanopoulosstephanopo see you. donald trump's hush-money trial resumes moments ago, michael cohen about to retake

the stand. e the stand. ♪♪ sandals jamaica sale is now on! with rates from $199 per person per night. visit sandals.com or call 1-800-sandals if advanced lung cancer has you searching for possibilities, discover a different first treatment. immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer. but opdivo plus yervoy is the first combination of 2 immunotherapies for adults newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer that has spread, tests positive for pd-l1, and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. opdivo plus yervoy is not chemotherapy, it works differently. it helps your immune system fight cancer in 2 different ways. opdivo and yervoy can cause your immune system to harm healthy parts of your body during and after treatment. these problems can be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have a cough; chest pain; shortness of breath; irregular heartbeat; diarrhea;

constipation; severe stomach pain; severe nausea or vomiting; dizziness; fainting; eye problems; extreme tiredness; changes in appetite, thirst or urine; rash; itching; confusion; memory problems; muscle pain or weakness; joint pain; flushing; or fever. these are not all the possible side effects. problems can occur together and more often when opdivo is used with yervoy. tell your doctor about all medical conditions including immune or nervous system problems, if you've had or plan to have an organ or stem cell transplant, or received chest radiation. your search for 2 immunotherapies starts here. ask your doctor about opdivo plus yervoy. a chance to live longer.

a slow network is no network for business. ask your doctor about opdivo plus yervoy. that's why more choose comcast business. and now we're introducing ultimate speed for business, our fastest plans yet. we're up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds at no additional cost. from the company with 99.9% network reliability and advanced cyber security, it's ultimate speed for ultimate business. and it's all from comcast business.

♪♪ back at 9:41 here in new york city. in lower manhattan the courtroom is full, and michael cohen has taken the stand for day two of direct questioning from the prosecution with cross examination still to come perhaps later today. let's go to rehema ellis live outside the courtroom in lower manhattan. what do we expect today? >> reporter: we expect more from michael cohen as he continues to be questioned by the prosecutors in this case before there is cross examination. i want to tell you a little bit about what's happening in the courtroom. the jurors came in only moments ago. before that, michael cohen came in.

we should tell you also in the courtroom today sitting in support is eric trump there with his father, also lara trump. she the rnc cochair married to eric. and pictures were taken and trump was talking with his attorney a little while before everything got under way. there might be more questioning to michael cohen about what this trial is really all about. that is how those repayments were made to michael cohen. yesterday under direct examination, he was asked by the prosecutor, would you have made those payments to stormy daniels without getting a signoff from mr. trump? and cohen said no. asked why not, he said because everything required trump's signature. in addition to that, i wanted the money back. he's talking about that $130,000 that he took a home equity loan

out in order to pay stormy daniels. one last thing, one other question he was asked by the prosecution, and did alan weisselberg, the former chief executive officer for mr. trump, did he say in front of mr. trump that monthly payments would be like a retainer for services, talking about how michael cohen would get repaid? he said yes. this speaks to everything this trial is about, whether or not donald trump falsified legal documents in terms of how this money was given back to michael cohen. >> rehema ellis, we'll check back with you throughout the day. let's bring in correspondent ali vitali. we reported a little bit earlier that speaker mike johnson is, in fact, in lower manhattan standing shoulder to shoulder with former president trump.

we're going to hear from him later today, i understand. >> reporter: we're going to hear from him in about 45 minutes or so. he's expected to speak outside of the courthouse. the media advisory about these remarks says they are remarks about the sham trial and the persecution of the former president. he joins an ever-growing train of trump allies who are there basically helping him get out the message that he thinks this is what the speaker calls a sham, and he's going to be one of a line of allies that continues to go to court with trump and make remarks outside. it's another reminder of how this party writ large is falling in line behind the former president to preach the gospel of their likely nominee.

for johnson, it's an interesting moment, because he himself just staved off an attempt to oust him from his job by another trump ally, marjorie taylor greene. he had been at mar-a-lago after those threats to his job. he stood next to the former president. they unveiled policy last week with no irony around some of the same lawyers and allies of the former president who tried to help him overtime the 2020 election results that he lost. now the speaker continuing to make good and physically going to that courthouse. there's also some veep takes drama. we saw jd vance go to the courthouse last week. now we're watching senators and

governors all trying to make good. >> yesterday jd vance and tommy tuberville. today you have at cast of characters down there led by speaker make johnson. he believes trump is going to be reelected and he wants to be in his good graces, also he feels he owes the president one for helping him through this attempted coup against him by marjorie taylor greene. >> reporter: i'm of the mindset that johnson staved off that so-called coup attempt by and large because most people here in congress hated the way last year ended with the ousting of kevin mccarthy and the rounds upon rounds of not being able to find the next speaker of the house. that memory is still really big in the minds of lawmakers here.

democrats and republicans alike came together to save speaker johnson's job. republicans were never going to have the votes to oust him from his job. from the moment he gave the votes for ukraine aid, democrats were going to keep him in power. there are plenty of republican members who say they want to have a clean slate of republican leadership for no matter what happens in november. that's where mike johnson's proximity could be good for him to be speaker. that's a long-term play. it makes sense why he's there at the courthouse today. >> ali vitali. we're going to sneak in a

quick break before we bring in your legal experts as michael cohen is on the stand right now. we'll be right back. e stand rig. we'll be right back. ah, man. take it from your inner child. what you really need in life is some freakin' torque. what? the dodge hornet r/t... the totally torqued-out crossover. hi, i'm kevin, and i've lost 152 pounds on golo. (uplifting music) my biggest concern when i started golo was food. i'm a big guy and, shockingly, i like to eat. i was worried it was gonna be like other diets that were bland and restrictive. but with golo, my meals are great, and i'm no longer hungry like i was before. i'm so pleased i gave golo a shot. don't wait,

go to golo.com. when you have chronic kidney disease, there are places you'd like to be. like here. and here.

not so much here. farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure which can lead to dialysis. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ ♪♪ farxiga can cause serious side effects, including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract or genital yeast infections and low blood sugar. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, an allergic reaction, or ketoacidosis. when you have chronic kidney disease, it's time to ask your doctor for farxiga. because there are places you want to be. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. ♪ far-xi-ga ♪ frizz. dryness. breakage. new dove 10-in-1 serum hair mask with peptide complex. fortifies hair bonds at a molecular level. helps reverse ten signs of damage in one minute.

keep living. we'll keep repairing. do you shop for vitamins online, but need higher quality products? force factor's best selling supplements powerfully improve your health. that's why force factor's partnered with iherb, the world's leading website for health and wellness products. unleash your potential with force factor on iherb. sleepy? headaches? dry skin? you're probably dehydrated. try liquid labs rapid hydration. it's packed with all five essential electrolytes. taste amazing and way less sugar than sports drinks? rehydrate and feel better with liquid labs.

grab liquid labs in the walmart vitamin aisle today. let's bring in msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos and former assistant district attorney in manhattan, msnbc legal analyst catherine christian. good morning to you both. michael cohen is back on the stand, resuming the testimony under direct questioning from the prosecution yesterday. perhaps we'll see him on cross examination beginning after lunch sometime today, but where do we pick up today, how impactful was yesterday? >> it was very impactful, but not a surprise because the prosecution never would have called michael cohen if he didn't have valuable information for them, because he's somebody that comes with a lot of liabilities and risks. and the reason they called him so close to the end is because they spent all this time introducing evidence and testimony that would in advance support michael cohen's testimony. so i think yesterday's testimony on the whole went generally well for the prosecution, not a surprise. michael cohen, by all accounts,

appeared more subdued, but the real test is when cross examination begins. i believe that will happen today. the prosecution's theme has been to move quickly. i can tell you as a defense attorney that can really throw you off when the prosecution is just flying through witnesses and you're sitting there scribbling away as fast as you can just trying to prepare for the next witness. so, i think we'll hear cross today and that's when we'll really find out are we going to get demure michael cohen or combative michael cohen. >> let's assume we do get cross today. how do you anticipate it will go? we know cohen's liability there, and how do you think the prosecution will have prepped him for the onslaught of events? >> it should be noted that susan hoffinger who is doing the examination, 20 years as a criminal defense attorney, she is his witness, she is the one who prepared him for cross examination. i'm sure she slapped him around, not literally, to prepare him

for what will happen. what the prosecution is hoping and why they're moving so fast, we always train when you have a witness who is a little problematic, get him on and get him off. so she's leaving him in place to make sure he doesn't volunteer information and as long as he keeps up that mellow, calm demeanor, during cross, that's what we should look for. if he turns back to the michael cohen, which many of us have seen on tv, that will be a problem for the prosecution. >> and what will the prosecution do after michael cohen, if he's a problematic witness, if they come back around with somebody else, moving to close, what is going to happen? >> it is an open question. they have two witnesses left. that's what they said last week. not entirely sure who the next witness will be. i heard suggestions it might be someone in the area of election law to explain what is, you know what the law is. i don't really know who they're going to call. that witness list has been kind of kept from the public. but, on the whole, i mean, on redirect they can try to clean up after cross michael cohen, but everybody knows what's

coming. it is going to be calling michael cohen a liar and saying he's out for revenge. he literally wrote a book called revenge about the defendant. so, he has a motive and i'm doing the defense spiel, they're going to say he has a motive to fabricate and get back at the person he perceives left him behind. >> what does the prosecution want michael cohen to seem like, and what is the michael cohen on cross that defense wants to see versus what the prosecution wants to see? >> the defense wants to goad him into a fight. they want to get him to be combative because jurors do not like witnesses that are combative. look, don't get me wrong, stormy daniels had a couple of zings of defense counsel and that played well on the outside. i'm not sure among the jury, and, by the way, i was in the courtroom, the jury, i think, is taking this very seriously. i wasn't able to see, but when the courtroom may have laughed, i didn't see any jurors

laughing. they think this is very serious. that's my take. maybe i missed other days where they were chuckling, i don't know. but what i think is important is that if a witness is too combative, it does not come off right. i don't really fully know the psychology of why, but for whatever reason, when you're on the stand, if you're fighting back, the key is the rules are skewed against the witness. the questioning attorney, the rules are all slanted in his or her favor, so, you don't win any points by fighting back on every single question. if michael cohen remains calm, then he will do the best job he can for the prosecution. if he's ambitious, if he wants to fight, if he wants this to be his moment in the sun, that will be bad for the people. >> catherine, this case is not just about whether or not donald trump cut the check, that michael cohen used to pay off stormy daniels, it is about whether he participated in knowingly fraud, financial fraud of the trump organization. do you think the prosecution has drawn that line yet or is in the process of doing it over the couple of days?

>> they're drawing the line because i'm glad you brought it back to what it is, did donald trump cause or knowingly give a thumb's up to the false entries in his business records. that's the crime. with the intent to defraud or commit and conceal another crime. it is not illegal to pay off stormy daniels. what is illegal in new york is when you make that false entry in your business records, you call it a legal expenses. quite frankly, this was not a normal attorney/client relationship. michael cohen really didn't act as a lawyer. so, calling it legal expenses in itself would be ridiculous. but that's what they have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. so, we haven't gotten there yet. i mean, there is circumstantial evidence, of course he knew, he's a detailed micromanaging multitasker. no one does anything in that organization unless he knows. >> michael cohen on the stand, telling that story as we speak.

catherine, danny, molly, jen, john, thank you, all. we'll be back here tomorrow morning. for now, ana cabrera and jose diaz-balart pick up the coverage in just 90 seconds. ose diaz-balart pick up the coverage in just 90 seconds here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost.

while i am a paid actor, and this is not a real company, there is no way to fake how upwork can help your business. upwork is half the cost of our old recruiter and they have top-tier talent and everything from pr to project management because this is how we work now. good morning. it is 10:00 eastern. i'm ana cabrera alongside my colleague and friend jose diaz-balart for special coverage