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here. you know the name. lanny davis joins us tonight as we track what could become a verdict that could hinge more than anything else on mierk call cohen's testimony. al sharpton is here more than anything else we've tried on the beat before. you see us with james brown. the rev is here. an artist making his beat debut harry mack. our top story shows why a verdict is on the way in trump's criminal trial. his defense lawyers resting their case today telling the judge they've completed their mission without ever having to call defendant trump to testify as is their right to call or not call. so they finished after less than two days in control. trump's lawyers called two witnesses compared to the 19 witnesses the da called. some of whom you can see right here. the star witness cohen, former trump aides like hope hicks, stormy daniels, tabloid chief and an array of many different

important people. now legally you're looking at the typical mismatch. the da the the prosecution calls more witnesses, lodge more evidence, because they have the burden of proof. whether trump's defense lawyers got enough doubt going through their cross examination and through the two witnesses there is an open question especially since they found in its final longest witness, the one who spent more time on the other stand costello frequently cost trump more than he helped according to the judge. costello has been the worst witness facing more scoldings than others with a heated exexchange and warned him he could be removed from the stand and face the sanction of having his apparently questionable testimony struck entirely. it's a harsh rebuke for costello. he's been criticized over his credibility, legal ethics. he's a former federal prosecutor

that was treated ultimately more like a nuisance by this judge. his links to now indicted former prosecutor rudy giuliani do remind everybody how leading a case doesn't mean a lawyer will end up as a witness, under subpoena or as a defendant. it is hard to see how this would be the final note trump's lawyers wanted to end on. >> the defense has rested its case after calling just two witnesses. >> one of them made the judge furious. >> robert costello back on the stand later this morning after yesterday's fireworks. >> yesterday he was nearly tossed from the witness box and his entire testimony was nearly stricken from the record. >> an extraordinary moment. >> his whole attitude on the stand could have the defense team rethinking its strategy of calling him at all. >> for the jury is if they find costello credible specifically in his dealings with cohen. the da used cross to show costello didn't seem to be representing cohen's interests

or trying to find some absolute truth but, rather, that costello, giuliani ally, was using or abusing his access to push cohen to help trump, to try to stop cohen from flipping. as at other points in the trial, some of the strongest evidence is not what people say now, it's what they wrote back then, especially if they thought it was secret. there were some new damning emails showing costello telling a colleague his goal was to get cohen on the right page without admitting they were following instructions from giuliani or trump, the president. some of costello's approach to cohen was not legal advice as much as it felt like b movie tropes. his email proclaimed sleep well, you have friends in high places. honestly, it sounds more like some bad dialogue from donnie

brasco than how a criminal defense lawyer actually counsels a client. cohen knew his boss was president. he knew trump was in a high place. the actual legal issues were about his criminal jeopardy, what the feds had on him and if his famously selfish client, president trump at the time, might pardon him. cohen determined trump wasn't going to do that then and that turned out to be true. now on the stand costello confirmed that that reference to friend in the silly email referred to trump. the rest of today focused on a clash over these pivotal instructions for the jury, and they will start to meet and deliberate after closing arguments next week. so both sides spent the afternoon wrangling over these pivotal rules for the jury. i can tell you this is as important as it is boring. in other words, the outcome really matters but it's in the weeds when you look at how

jury instructions are given. ndas are legal. the two sides found common language. they wanted to consider if trump could blame his own past lawyers for misconduct. they pushed for language about what the jury should find if they don't think this was a campaign motivation and the judge, i can tell you, proposed that he may just tell the jury the payments were not a campaign contribution if they find they would have been made whether trump was running for president or not. in other words, the judge is saying it's good for trump if you determine that he would have made the payment anyway. we talked about that a lot in covering this trial. the point there is if he would have made the payment anyway, does the jury have clear instructions about how to interpret that. that means it's not a campaign contribution if he would have made it anyway. that's a back and forth. there's no final ruling on that as of this hour. we did see a setback where

trump's lawyers asked for special treatment telling the judge that he should just make it harder to convict trump by discussing how the jury should consider fraud and intent to conceal another crime and again you don't have to get lost in the weeds. the bottom line is they lost that request. the judge finding that the law has one intent requirement so he explained he was not going to materially change the statute just to make it easier on defendant trump. now why does all of this stuff in the weeds matter? two reasons. one, most of the jury are non-lawyers. two lawyers and ten citizens and they need some instructions to make sense of all of this. the two, if a defendant is convicted they have a right to appeal. they and every other defendant. this is the stuff that goes up on appeal. was the judge fair, were the instructions clear, they'll follow precedent. we're talking about sex, lies, videotapes and other times we

are in the weeds of the jury instructions and there is no better legal gardner when you go into the weeds than an fbi veteran andrew weissman, our legal gardner when we're back in 90 seconds. ew. gotta get rid of this. ♪tell me why♪ because it stinks. ♪have you tried downy rinse and refresh♪ it helps remove odors 3x better than detergent alone. it worked guys! ♪yeahhhh♪ downy rinse and refresh. i have active psoriatic arthritis. but with skyrizi to treat my skin and joints, count me in. along with clearer skin, skyrizi helps me move with less joint pain, stiffness, swelling, and fatigue. and is just 4 doses a year, after 2 starter doses. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, had a vaccine, or plan to. there's nothing like clearer skin and better movement. and that means everything! ask your doctor about skyrizi today. learn how abbvie could help you save.

you founded your kayak company because you love the ocean- not spreadsheets. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire sir, why did you decide against testifying in your case? did you not want to take the stand? >> are you nervous about a coop

viktion? >> defendant trump there passing on opportunity to engage the press core that's assembled for him. maybe he wasn't as interested in the question about what was confirmed today. he will not be testifying in his defense as is his right. we are now as promised joined by andrew weissman. welcome, andrew. >> nice to be here. >> jury instructions are boring but important. agree? >> agree. >> we don't have it all set yet. i like to be clear yet. we don't have them all. when we get them we will be reading them and announce whether they seem standard or slanted any which way. let's start with the wrangling over instructing on the campaign crime and the money. tell me what you heard. >> there was one part i thought was really interesting and good for the government, and it's that the state in order to make this a felony has three separate

crimes they're going to point to to say if you committed this false business records but with the intent, just the intent to aid or conceal another crime, you've got this felony. they pointed to three separate crimes, one federal, two state. and one of the arguments was does the jury have to be unanimous about which of the three? in other words, if you have six saying it's this one, three saying it's that one, three saying it's that one, is that sufficient? or do they all have to be 12 saying it's this one? the judge says, as long as it's unanimous that at least -- that they all agree that at least one, they don't have to agree on the same one, that is sufficient. >> right. >> which is bad for trump. >> bad for trump. >> can i make a crack comparison? >> yes. >> so if you are doing a crack prosecution but there's a possibility that the powder was illegal fen na noll, street fentanyl instead of crack, as

long as you can get the jury on board that this was illegal substance contraband, right, you're good? that's sort of the analogy here. if you are going on a drug charge, right, you don't get to say, different crime. yes, i clearly have 12 people who think i committed the crime but they are split if they are bundled together? >> that's an analogy. it's like you said we're going to be in the weeds and i was a gardner. >> let's go. >> the legal term is that it's methods and means. in other words, the methods and means by which you carry out a crime is not something the jury has to be unanimous about. they have to be unanimous about what's called the elements of a crime. every crime has certain elements. that has to be unanimity. this is a good ruling because there's a smorgasbord of choices and you do not have to have unanimity. that was really useful. >> that reminds, i think, people when following the trial that

there was so much emphasis on what trump's intent was in covering it up, right? >> exactly. >> so, again, if you want to be as fair as possible and there's a defense that he had these other legal reasons to cover it up, you know, court of public opinion people may judge it, voters may judge it, the christian right group of political republicans used to judge that, but that's separate. here the only thing is, to your point, can they demonstrate and the jury instructions demand can they cover up some crime and you say -- >> this came up and the judge dealt with this in the jury charge. what if the state proved that 50% of what donald trump was thinking was campaign violation and 50% was melania, personal. >> right. division. >> or if it was 90/10, make up your own math.

what does the law require? does it have to be 100% campaign, tax? what if there's some portion that he was thinking about protecting his family? and the law in new york, which i -- and the judge basically said this, is that it does not require the state to prove that it's 100% campaign. >> right. which would be fraud. >> right. >> the judge said you can have dual motives. the state doesn't have to prove that the only reason naurp doing this -- >> well, let me jump in. someone could have a big public facing job, the ceo of a big company and there's evidence that they abuse -- beat up on their wife, let's say. their motivation might be to avoid embarrassment and also avoid the fact that they allegedly committed the crime of battery, right? >> right. >> the fact that they're also worried about losing their job, which is not legal, or being embarrassed or kicked out of their country club, that doesn't

invidiate it, right? >> exactly. one of the things that judge merchan who has been spectacular has been doing is he's going to i can ma sure that the public and all of the parties see exactly what he's going to charge the jury. >> right. >> why is that important? as you and i know when you're preparing the summation, you want to know, what's the judge going to say the law is so you can address that in terms of telling the jury, this is why we have established the facts or on the defense side this is why they haven't established it. the you need to know what you're sort of shooting against. the judge is going to give that to them with plenty of time to prepare. >> that will be, what, want to keep you over the next break. briefly, that's a couple of pages what we ultimately get? >> it should be long. >> how long do you think it will be? >> could be like 30 pages. >> the jury instructions? >> wow. that's longer than i was thinking. >> yeah. >> because of the theory of the case or in general? >> in general jury instructions

are long. then sometimes the judge will give the actual charge, print it out and give it to the jury. >> there's a saying, people talk about good tv. you ever heard that saying? >> yes, i have. >> good tv. >> is this good tv? we're in the weeds. >> i was going to say, i don't know if it was good tv but i know it was good law. i know it was good law especially down to the details what we're going to see. we're going to be pouring over these instructions. we'll have the instructions before we have any type of results for the jury. you agreed to stay. we just did the jury instructions. we're going to turn to the hotter item. i'm saying it, not you, the hot mess of bob costello, a very weak trump defense witness. i want to get your breakdown of that which we turn to next. mr. weissman stays. al sharpton here unlike anything we've ever tried before joined by an artist making his beat debut. the one and only legend, harry

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plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! less than two weeks before the presidential election michael cohen wired $130,000 to stormy daniels' lawyer. that payment was to hide damaging information from the voting public. the scheme violated new york election law. >> that's the case as described by d.a. bragg. we are back with an draw weissman. we turn, finally, to two days of defense. they had a rough two days. here's one moment people have seen from what i called the hot mess of the giuliani ally costello. listen to the question, answer the question. we're dealing with a lawyer and former prosecutor. he says, can i say something please? and that is how he talks so i'm being fair. that's a decent reenactment. the judge says.

no. no. this is not air conversation. he knew better. he still acted this way. was it a hot mess? did he hurt that effort? >> that quote is the least of it. he said twice to him, the judge to the witness outside the presence of the jury, your conduct is contemptuous. it is -- >> yes. >> he was a huge mistake. it is better to not put on a witness if you are the defense than put on a bad witness. the jurors are like you had a defense and this was your defense? here's what i think the state is going to argue in summation. they're going to be saying, you saw an obstruction scheme, you saw it in black and white that was orchestrated by that man, and they will point to donald trump, and it was carried out by bob costello and rudy giuliani. and what was the goal? to have michael cohen never take the stand. you do not do that if you are innocent. you do not do that if you are not worried about michael cohen.

and so they will use it to show consciousness of guilt, they will use it to show that donald trump is a ring leader and the head of this group and they will use it to sort of rehabilitation michael cohen to say they knew exactly that he had the goods. >> i've got 30 seconds left with you. is that case stronger with the defense having put him on? >> the state's case? >> the -- to -- >> absolutely. this was a -- this was a huge mistake. i know some defense lawyers. i cannot imagine this was their choice, that they are too good to be thinking -- >> so bad it looks like malpractice but maybe trump forced them into it as a -- >> it's not force -- >> demanded it. >> the same way i listened to donald trump say i wish i could have testified. just to be clear, it's his choice. it's not the lawyer's choice. >> we're just analyzing what we know. you're adding a layer to it. your view, it's a compliment to

mr. blanch and others. they're good enough to know this is a mess they didn't want. >> right. >> the defendant has these rights. he may have exercised a right that blew up in his face. >> true. >> thanks for being here on more than one topic. >> thank you. >> appreciate it. we have a lot coming up including michael cohen's long-time adviser, lanny davis. he's our special guest including on these new jury instructions next. with the scrubbing power of magic eraser and the cleaning power of dawn. watch it make soap scum here... disappear... and sprays can leave grime like that ultra foamy melts it on contact. magic. new ultra foamy magic eraser.

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now this is a violation of the criminal law and mr. starr i think needs to be investigated. if we're going to allow the subpoena power in a criminal investigation to be used for that intimidating purpose, we're looking more at a police state. >> my fear is governor bush is going to have to give in to answer those questions. the proof is in the pudding. we've talked about what caused him to changing his mind by taking a bullet for donald trump. >> lanny davis served as special counsel to then president clinton. welcome back, sir. >> ari melber, you're so terrible showing me young and good looking. >> we're all older. it's good to be alive i think we can agree. when we look at your experience, you've been around both law and politics for a minute, as they say. i want to show you what michael cohen, who we know you've been

close to, what his testimony got in terms of its reception. there are analysts who say he was cool under pressure, that he was calm, instrumental in the incriminating material he provided about donald trump and compelling. others here, we're sourcing from the times, the post, other accounts, said his credibility was ultimately sharply undermined by showing his own manipulations and outright lies. lanny, i show that to remind citizens and viewers of the breadth of reaction. at times he was and calm i think that's fair to say. i witnessed him in the courtroom. you see the other accounts that he was shown to be a liar. your response tonight? >> first of all, i'm going to surprise you by saying i agree with both and they're not important. yes, he was a liar nationally, publicly, in front of congress, under oath. dirty deeds, lied for donald

trump, i am ashamed. he owned them. the part of michael cohen that was the subject of cross examination demonstrated that part of him, but he also said i now need to tell the truth and the direct words had something to do with helping him right these words was for my country and for my family. but let me tell you why i think this is way team if a sized, both by myself and everybody else. i submit and i will prove to you if you give me 60 seconds, i've gotten it down to 60 seconds, ari. >> okay. >> michael cohen's testimony for a jury to convict donald trump beyond a reasonable doubt. now it's up to the jury to decide that, but i'm tilling you that there are two issues for the jury to decide. issue one, what was the primary motivation of the hush money payment? if that motivation had anything to do with the campaign in politics, check that box as gimt. of course, you heard hope hicks, david pecker and the attorney for stormy daniels say this was

about the campaign, not about melania. so check that box. no michael cohen testimony needed. the second one is a little bit more difficult to understand. his testimony when he called keith schiller and schiller hands the phone to donald trump, everybody knew that the way michael and anyone communicated with mr. trump was to call schiller. the fact that he didn't mention that he was also being grassed and he was giving it to schiller. you lied. well, an attorney screaming you lied isn't evidence. what's the second question for the jury? did donald trump lie when he called the payments to stormy daniels and the repayments to michael cohen legal fees? and there's a document that you don't need michael cohen for to decide whether they were legal fees or reimbursement for legal acts. that document speaks for itself. >> no, i think that's fair. i think that's fair. i will jump in.

i've told viewers, part of this case is on paper and it shows donald trump lying and it shows the business committing that type of fraud, of lying to the government in business. i mean, that happened according to the paper which is separate -- wait, lanny, from whether the jury finds the full conspiracy. i want to get you on the jury instructions and i'll give you more time. this is new today. the case goes to the jury. you've been around the process. you know the instructions could matter. both sides argued well into the afternoon today about what the jury should be told, how to address new york election law. this is, of course, that key law. as we mentioned in the broadcast, trump's lawyers appeared to lose their effort to change the intent standard. based on your understanding of the process and how that went today, it's not 100% complete, we don't have, for example, the instructions, do you think that's on the right track or do you have any concerns about that? for example, had they drastically changed the intent

standard for defendant trump, i think that could have been a big question. >> no. that's what we call in law school horn book law. these are the instructions we use in new york state for years. the defense team wants to rewrite the blaus the law doesn't help them. so i think the instructions follow corn book law. >> understood. the other point you wanted to hit. >> yes, please. there's a speaking document where you don't need michael cohen at all. it speaks so loud that a reasonable jury is going to say yes. donald trump lied when he called them legal fees and that can be proven by a document by allen weisselberg, the chief financial officer so close to donald trump that he went to jail rather than testify. that document had a number of figures written in his handwriting authenticated. they add the up to 420,000, including the 130 paid to silence stormy daniels according to stormy daniels.

420,000 divided by 12 equals, viola, 35,000. that's the number on the checks that donald trump as the sitting president wrote to michael cohen. nothing about legal fees. as james car develop might say, it's about the math, stupid. 420 divided by 12 is 35. that's the money reimbursed to michael cohen trued up so he didn't have to pay income taxes and that math is not about legal fees. >> that's fair. >> donald trump lied, as he has lied, saying they're legal fees but he knew perfectly well he was reimbursing michael cohen, as giuliani said on television, as trump himself called them reimbursements. if the jury decides they were reimbursements and not legal fees, they can find a verdict on both crimes, the false recording as well as the illegal campaign contributions no michael cohen needed. >> that's interesting coming to you again on the very day defense rests. lanny davis, thanks for joining us again. good to see you, sir. >> thank you, ari. >> absolutely.

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trump allies, associates or aides have faced arrests and arraignment in arizona of fraud, forgery, conspiracy. they are all legally presumed innocent and have not proven guilty. among them are someone who has the title of election integrity czar for the national republican party. she joined this growing list of trump lawyers who are facing a range of trump lawyers facing disbarment proceedings or being disbarred. as a reminder for all of the talk around the nation about whether there was a 2016 crime, when it comes to 2020 some of the trump lawyers have been convicted of a 2020 crime. i want to turn to another important story that we've reported on before and singer cassy ventura responding after

sean diddy combs was shown beating her. we have more response after her attorney says diddy's new statement which says words to the effect of an apology is, they say, more about himself than the many people he's hurt and shows his pathetic desperation. this comes after this disturbing video was revealed. it's a still frame and it shows the very clear violence. the image shows combs dragging her, throwing her to the ground and kicking her back. all of this occurred on the video in 2016. the assault also, we should note, appears to confirm an incident that she alleged in her lawsuit that was filed against

combs in november. we want to note when we look at truth and accountability that at the time combs denied those allegations and after the lawsuit was filed they reached a quick settlement without any public admission of wrongdoing. now faced with the video he says he does admit the abuse and released a statement. the apology only comes after he got caught and that there was a larger reckoning needed for this kind of violence when it is obviously confirmed with this kind of evidence. should also tell you that the la da's office has stipulated that based on the local laws they say the assault happened too long ago to be prosecuted now even with this damning evidence. separately combs faces multiple civil lawsuits and allegations including this physical abuse and sexual assault. he has separately denied those. at a broader level, we can tell you we reported back on this in march when they raided his homes

in l.a. and miami. that probe is in relation to allegations of sex trafficking at the broadest level that would appear to be different and more recent than the horrific things that were shown on the video reporting tonight. this is an important story for a lot of people and we will continue to cover it. we will fit in a break. we are back with reverend al sharpton is here for something very special. i don't know how long it's been there.

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her uncle's unhappy. i'm sensing an underlying issue.

it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. welcome back to the beat. we like to try different things around here. today we have our first ever freestyle fall back with two very special guests who know all about this. harry mack is a performer who's exploding on the music scene right now. he is a true wordsmith and he has an agile mind. he's known for freestyle rapping, that means basically making up poetry on the spot

based on anything around him. it could be words people share or what he sees or what his fans are even wearing. >> when i'm spitting, yeo, i got patterns just like your plat. putting whatever is in your face. my dude in the north face. you know i got the dopest vibe. kind of like your ray bans. i can see they polarizing you paid extra for that. these three-eyed alien bes out of toy story. >> i see what you do. i got my cameraman but now we got alternative view. i need no correct. this is very meta. this is some kind of filming inception. >> we love it. it's really amazing. i'm going to show the reaction. as we saw there, that's live. one take. no cheating. and he has impressed his own fans. people you run into on the street don't know who you are as well as creatives and artists.

let's take a look. >> mack, yo. >> hey. >> make some [ bleep ] noise. >> yeo, your son. >> you so blown away you got your fingless on your temples, let's go. >> oh, my. whoa. >> whoa. we're joined by reverend al sharpton who, among his many talents and extraordinary life that you've been living, was of course the man with the god father himself, james brown. he organization, the national action network, which recently hosted none other than president biden at their annual gathering. welcome to you both. >> thank you so much. >> a longtime fan. rev. >> good to be on with you. >> my man. >> have you ever seen this young man before? >> i have not. >> we're going to test it. i told people this is real one take live. now, we have some words. you haven't shown him your words, right? >> not one.

>> i haven't shown you my words. this is journalism, so this isn't like a fake magic show where we're trying to help you out. so tell our viewers here just in a sentence or two, what are we about to see? >> i'm known for freestyle rapping. that means a few different things. to me, it means i'm improvising my lyrics live, nothing is preplanned, prememorized or prepared in any capacity whatsoever. i'm going to be seeing these words for the first time. >> those tapes we saw, you didn't know any of that was going to happen. >> not at all. live in the moment. >> which is so interesting. and we have heard different artists innovate different ways. this is really a high intellectual level, a high word level. we have these words. i'm going to hold them out. you're going to a capella give us newpoetry from your mind. >> i'm going to say three, two,

one. >> you know the people soon to see, yeah, we got presidential immunity. h. mack you know i came through to make them bear the witness but no one is immune to my sickness. my flow is the hottest, i should be recording in the oval office. let me see the next word from the style, the word here is trump trial. well every time i rap i never play for the chump, i'm putting other rappers on trial like trump. we're going to overthrow the wackness, mack's the illest off the dome. when it comes to lyrics you know they try to jack. when i rhyme i prove i really got a lot of soul. multiple genres, hip-hop to rock and roll. when i spit you know i'm throwing those lanes down, sitting next to the manager of james brown. i'm never getting played for the punk because we about to hit them with the funk. i'm doing all these lyrics off my brain. when i rhyme i be running my campaign. it's h. mack i grip the mic and kill this, the people really got

to vote mac to be the illest. i can't really trust you, these rappers waste time like filibusters. when it comes to rap i write the laws like the senate. i feel like i be the free style congress. i rip up on the mic and bust this, shouts to al sharpton and others fighting for justice. we got to find a way to reach equality, when i'm rhyming off the top i'm speaking on the policies. come one come all, my lyrics are really good for your health like fresh fruit. when i'm spitting i'm causing more panic. fruit from the farmer's market because it's organic. tasted like fresh blueberries from trader joe's. did i really witness that, the word is funk, but al, i predicted that. i knew it was coming, they blown away by how hard i went. on the mic, i spoke it up like the parliament. call me the rap smith, these rappers aren't paying no taxes. other cats are sure to lose,

they ain't been paying tax, they ain't paying no dues. when i'm on it, i spit until my last breath. all that's guaranteed is taxes and death. when it comes to bars no one is as live, is that artificial intelligence or allen iverson? either way, harry mack came to ball and check the way i grab the mic and holler at them all. i heard that you got a direct line. to my man, he's got to give me my sight, can we hit up joe biden, get him on the phone so he can hear the freestyle. it will be wild. we never stop let me catch that word. when it comes to catching lyrics they know i'm absurd. when i'm rhyming i'm flashing. i don't need the jewelry and i don't need the fashion. i blow minds with the lyrical technique, it must be catch wreck week. i'm going to blast off. every time i rhyme i prove that

the mack is the boss. shout out to rachel in the building, staying faithful when i'm illing. i'm moving through the stack with ease, when i rap i do as i please. you know they love how i create, this flow be getting heated like presidential debates. it's h. mack i'm going to repwhat i all about. any competition in the game who i'm calling out. we're out here to spark, i got to send some love out to caitlin clark. when i rhyme off the top, in the wnba, i spit it in the freeway. i ain't no punk. all around the planet the people are gonna see, i should kick a freestyle for nancy pelosi. let me freestyle for all the politicians because when i'm rhyming off the metro they're always listen. we're having fun, this moment right now for the mack is easy what you're seeing now is a rapper on tv. shout out to ari just for bringing me through and giving me this opportunity to do what i do. let me see what's going on with

all these rap creations. io, the money's going higher through inflation. i'm inflating my bars and i spit i'm inflating your heart. i'm getting busy when i come off the top with these tunes. i'm the rapper around the planet they acknowledge in red and blue states like the electoral college. i paint the town new colors and when it comes to lyrics i do like none other. once again i'm repping them rhymes while sitting next to the reverend. me freestyling thought it would be my dream sport, harry mack holds down the law like the supreme court. >> thank you so much. >> my god. that is wild. rev, your reaction. >> i thought i was a wordsman. i have never seen anybody do that. he had no idea what we were going to show, and not only did he come with lyrics or words that he came extemporaneously,

he never broke rhythm. as somebody who used to roll with james brown and michael jackson, i knew them all, he kept the same rhythm, which means his mind really worked. you're unique. you really are. >> thank you so much. >> usually you can lose your rhythm and try to catch up, which throws off your words. he didn't misa beat. >> that means a lot coming from you, sincerely. >> it means a lot to me to have heard this. >> you didn't miss a beat and you're clearly thinking of the future while you're in the present. can you enlighten us at all about what's happening inside your mind? anyone who saw that and we said it was all live, one take. these words you have never seen. what's happening in there? >> a big part of it, you mentioned it, i'm thinking a little ahead of where i'm at. not too far ahead. because then i'll get confused about where i am currently. i'm utilizing this technique called set-up punch line. if i get a word like lighter, rather than just grab the word

lighter, and then try to think of something that rhymes with lighter after that, maybe i say i got the lighter and i'm out here getting hyperor something, i try to think of it that way, the technique i use is the inverse of that. i see lighter, i save it for later, say something that rhymes with it first, such as harry mack, getting loose in the siver, every line i hit is lit. >> what do you think knowing so many artists and having worked on these issues, what do you think about how hip-hop is so important to a new generation coming up and such a point of unity because if people do profiling they might say, you don't look like a rapper. which is no different than saying you don't look like a doctor or a news anchor. well, what are you really saying, something that needs to be improved upon. what do you think about this for the new generation? >> i think it's a tremendous testimony to how far we have

come. because there was a time, you know, like james brown was like a father to me aside from going on the road with him sometimes. and james brown would tell me stories about how when he started, black artists couldn't even use the dressing rooms in some of the venues they played. he had had to get dressed in his tour bus. then he went all the way to where they were center stage in las vegas. for me now, i'm looking at him wishing james would see, you get white kids that can do rap and freestyle like black kids. i mean, the political ramifications is that we're closer together even in divided times. i was sitting there wondering if we ever did a duet with me preaching and you freestyling. key could start a new thing. >> that has to happen. >> i tell you what, you had the president at this year's conference. maybe next year, you have harry mack, yourself, and the president. >> i'm there. >> all we have to do is get the

president. >> are you okay being in the opening act for a president? you wouldn't be the headliner? >> that's all right. that seems fair. >> we have to close no matter who it is, we the closer. >> you said it, man. >> our good friend reverend al sharpton and for those of you learning, someone you need to know, harry mack. talented art. >> thanks for spending time with us again on this unusual and special time on "the beat." that does it for us. you can find me online, and "the reidout" with joy reid starts now. >> he's the only one who can do that. where are you, dan? most powerful man in politics, i say. most powerful. only one who can do it. he can press it, linda, he has the number. even linda doesn't have it. >> donald trump just last month stating that