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tonight donald trump's lawyers wrap up the case and his criminal trial as the former president declined to take the witness stand. then my interview with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu, as a war crimes prosecutor now seeks a warrant for his arrest. and what is going on with the economy? inflation may be slowing, but prices remain high in this country. i will ask the head of the federal reserve bank of chicago as the 11th hour gets underway on this tuesday night. it evening once again, i'm stephanie ruhle in chicago and we are now 168 is away from the election. in about one week from now, a jury of 12 new yorkers will start deliberating the fate of the first former president charged with a crime. donald trump's defense team rested its new york criminal case today after calling just two witnesses. donald trump did not take the

stand. the closing arguments are now set for one week from today. then the case goes to the jury. my colleague laura jarrett has all the details. >> reporter: tonight the defense resting its case, with four president trump choosing not to take the stand in his first criminal trial. jurors let today hearing only from robert costello, a lawyer who briefly advised michael cohen. prosecutors today again trying to paint costello as a trump allied emissary dispatch by rudy giuliani to prevent cohen from flipping on mr. trump. confronted with emails suggesting he was frustrated, cohen refused to hire him, including one where he wrote: continues to flow play us and the president. is he totally nuts? he is playing with the most powerful man on the planet. costello suggested monday cohen's entire story, the former president trump wanted to silence stormy daniels to protect his campaign was all a lie. castillo telling jurors that michael cohen said numerous

times that president trump knew nothing about those payments and that cohen said he did this on his own. costello only one of two witnesses called by the defense team. the testimony, all told, running just over 90 minutes. >> it is a kangaroo court. there's never been anything like this that i've ever seen. >> reporter: the judge working with both sides for hours today to hash out critical instructions jurors will receive next week to aid their deliberations on the 34 counts mr. trump basis for allegedly falsifying his business records. the outcome likely to largely come down to whether jurors believe cohen, the only witness to testify that mr. trump directed the payoff to daniels and then disguised as reimbursements to:, all of which mr. trump denies. the defense spent three days grilling cohen, who has been convicted of lying under oath and was disbarred. if found guilty on low-level felonies here, mr. trump basis anywhere from four years in prison to just probation.

and if that wasn't enough today, meanwhile in arizona, 11 trump allies were arraigned for their parts in the pay collector scheme. all the defendants, including number new york city mayor rudy giuliani and former arizona gop chair kelly ward pleaded not guilty. with that, let's get smarter with the help of our leadoff panel tonight. susan glasser is here, staff writer for the new yorker. former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst glenn kircher, and historian john meacham, who occasionally advises president biden. this evening was just awarded the lincoln leadership prize. you are our legal expert, help us out here. reminder audience what trump has said about testifying over the last six weeks. i'm going to share a bit of it and i want you to comment on the other side. >> yeah, i would testify, absolutely. it's a scam. i am testifying. i tell the truth. >> yes.

>> will not stop you from testifying? >> no, it will not talk stop me from testifying. >> do you plan to testify in court? >> probably so. i would like to. i mean, i think so. >> oh, he'd like to? now he is not going to. he decided he won't, and now a jury will not hear from him. is the jury allowed to draw any conclusions from that? is it like taking the fifth? >> absolutely not. they will be instructed that a defendant has an absolute right to testify in his own trial and to decline to testify in his own trial, and any defendant who declines to testify, the jury may not consider it and may not draw any negative inferences against a defendant. that is the beauty of our fifth amendment privilege against self-incrimination. but really, the only thing that should surprise us is that we still have the capacity to be surprised. donald trump said he

would be testifying, or at least interviewing with bob mueller, and he didn't. he said he would testify in both trials, he testified in neither. is it any surprise that he is been telling us all along he would testify in his own criminal trial in new york, and now he has told us all he will not be testifying? he could not withstand 10 seconds of cross-examination from those new york prosecutors. so, whereas we have to embraces right not to testify, it is pretty interesting that he can't even take the stand in his own defense, nor can he call any witnesses of consequence who can tell the jury that donald trump did nothing wrong. no exculpatory evidence, nothing exonerating, and indeed, the costello decision to call him i think was an enormous strategic lender. because i think bob costello hurt the trump defense more than he helped the trump defense.

>> john, the american people will now have no sworn testimony from the first former president, who is running for president, charged with a crime. can you even put that into context for us? >> no. >> in a word, no. >> we are aware far past where the buses run, as we say in the south. i think one thing that has emerged from this is that the rule of law is being applied. trump is sitting there, the gag order has been in force. perhaps not as stringently as it would be for you or me, but the mechanics of the constitutional order are going forward. and i think it is hard to say this, that we needed to send that message to the world, that american democracy was not totally broken. but i think that message is being sent.

>> susan, the defense case took less than one single day. does donald trump care more about the defense in the courtroom or the defense against outside the courtroom, on the steps? i mean, did you actually hear anything significant from him? >> look, donald trump is always litigating in the port of public opinion. that is his primary venue. and of course there is nothing illegal about lying to the public in the court of public opinion, as donald trump is so skillful at doing. and so, of course it is not a surprise that he gaslight all of us and says he is terribly gagged, he is being deprived of his first amendment rights and his rights to defend himself by the judge in the case. but then refuses to offer a substantive defense in the case . his litigation of this case, such as it is, is convincing people that even without knowing any specifics is hopelessly unfair, it is a kangaroo court, and that is a message he is pounding over and over and over again, regardless of the facts in this particular case.

and i think to john's point, on the one hand, it is important to see the mechanisms of the law being applied to donald trump. a judge seeking to hold him accountable, a jury of perhaps not peers, but of regular citizens being called in. but this is also a sideshow, let's remember that the real case involving donald trump are not, it appears, going to come into court and going to show the world that justice is being applied to donald trump when it comes to questions about seeking to overturn the 2020 election, when it comes to things like taking classified information that he wasn't allowed to have after he left the white house. those questions will remain unresolved headed into the election. this is a case that is very different, and much narrower in nature. >> glenn, did the defense witnesses do anything to help trump? >> no, i think they affirmatively hurt trump's

cause. when costello was cross- examined by the prosecution, with his own emails saying things like, to michael cohen, sleep well, you have friends in high places, and we need to keep cohen on the same page. and the one that i think is priceless, and is prosecutorial gold is the one you referred to in your lead-in, where costello actually put in an email, cohen continues to slow play us and the president. is he totally nuts? what should i say to this a whole. he is playing with the most powerful man on the planet. that is ordinarily not the way an attorney talks about his client, or his potential client. what becomes clear from all of the cross-examination is that, you know, it looks like bob costello was trying to catch and capture, or capture and kill the information that michael cohen could provide that would incriminate donald trump. this was a whole lot of ugliness, and i have to believe

, you know, especially after judge merchan had to clear the courtroom because bob costello could not even comport himself as a respectful witness. he was showing contemptuous behavior. the jury is not going to miss all of the signs and signals from bob costello. and i can only believe that donald trump directed his defense attorneys to put costello on the stand, because as i say, it was an enormous strategic blunder. >> john, there's two groups of people i want ask you about. first is the jury. next week, this group of people after a long, complex trial where they had to sit through long testimony with lots of conflict, they are going to have to make a historic decision. what kind of burden is on these 12 ordinary americans? >> it is enormous. and it is part of a tradition that stretches back 13th- century.

it is the common law, it is magna carta, it is that defendants are given the right to be tried, and that juries render these verdicts. i'm glad i'm not there. but i think if you believe in the system, for all of its imperfections, then the system moves on. and unfolds. >> i love the you always qualify that. if you believe in the system with all of its imperfections. >> it is, right? it's an imperfect system. as winston churchill said, it is the worst of all forms of government, except for all the others. how would you replace a trial by jury? >> well, what is your take on this other group of individuals, this trump cheering squad showing up almost in uniform, matching ties, performing for him? that almost feels un-american. >> well, it is a cult.

the party is not a party at the moment, it is a cult. it is a personality driven, and -- >> did you ever think you, john meacham, would be saying that about the republican party? does that make you sad? >> of course it makes me sad. i have voted for republicans for president. i am george h.w. bush's biographer. but talking about him in this context is like talking about the peloponnesian war. it is that far back. right? so no. but it is that. and you saw even when things kind of work, you sort of saw the tension, right? you saw speaker mike johnson do the deal on ukraine. educate himself. say he wanted to be on the right side of history. everything you want from a public figure. and what does he do? he shows up in manhattan to show his guilty.

now he is facing voters, i understand the forces on that. i have never been on a ballot, i get it. but i get the reason he's doing it. i don't get the ultimate reason. what the party is doing right now is they are putting the short-term power sentence, short and midterm power incentives over the long-term good of the experiment they are sworn to protect. and that is a position that, look, i wouldn't want history to be judging me if i ended up having to pay fealty to donald trump. >> sadly, we have to go to commercial, because if we didn't we would definitely get into the peloponnesian war. >> you know, susan is very good eye. >> guess what? you and susan are sticking around. glenn, thank you for joining us. when we returned, my interview with israeli prime minister benjamin that yahoo. he responds to the icc arrest warrant and who will govern gaza after the war.

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one day after the international criminal court recommended arrest warrants for both the leaders of hamas and israel, i sat down with prime minister netten yahoo. authorization. mr. prime minister, we have a

lot to get to. let's get right to it. what is your response to the icc seeking an arrest warrant for you? >> well, i think my response is no different from president biden, who said this is outrageous. and many people across the political spectrum in the united states and leaders of necrotic countries around the world have called it exactly that. it is a road executor who is out to demonize the one and only jewish state. and he is doing that by first applying a false symmetry. he is equating israel democratically elected leaders with the terrorist tyrants of hamas. that is like saying well, i am issuing arrest warrants after 9/11, i am issuing arrest warrants for george bush but also for osama bin laden. and in world war ii, i am issuing arrest warrants for fdr but also for hitler. things a lot. that is a false symmetry and it is totally absurd, it is a travesty of justice. another thing he is doing, he is using also false

accusations. he is saying we are drying out gaza. drying out gaza? we are supplying now, before the war, 7% of gaza's water, and now 45% of the water. nearly half, to make sure they have water. he is saying we have a deliberate policy of starvation. deliberate policy? we supplied half 1 million tons of food and drugs. 20,000 trucks. >> yes sir, but hold on. we have already heard usaid has said yemen is present. we have heard from cindy mccain, who runs the world food program, who has said there are massive famines there. are you saying that they are lying? >> i am saying that cindy mccain, unfortunately, is misinformed. and i'm saying that the facts prove otherwise. we have flooded gaza with the humanitarian aid, before that we supplied it with more than minimal amounts and we fixed the road beds, we fixed the

border crossings to make sure that all these, all this food and all these supplies go in. we have enabled air drops, we have enabled maritime routes. we are building a port. the whole thing of a deliberate starvation policy is ridiculous, and it is put forward by a guy who does not check his facts. he is receiving it, as do others, from the unrest and other agencies and palestinian sources. they have said just recently that they discovered, well, they sort of were misinformed. that 10,000 casualties that were supposed to be women and children, now they say well, we don't know that. >> but sir, we can't discount that there has been massive suffering and deaths. we see it with our own eyes. but of course, the reason we are all here is because of what happened on october 7th. because of the hostages that are still being held. so let's talk about the path forward. as president biden says that your failure to plan for who

will govern gaza has already allowed hamas to pop back up in hearts of gaza. and the idf is now saying they're fighting hamas again in northern gaza. why should the world believe that anything will be different after you go in to rafah, which will obviously cause more suffering? >> well, first of all, the suffering is something we are concerned with, and israel has gone to lengths that no other government and no other army in modern urban warfare has gone to prevent civilian casualties. for us, every civilian casualty is a tragedy. for hamas, every civilian casualty is a strategy. they are trying to keep them in harms way, while we are trying to get them out of harms way with millions of leaflets, phone calls, text messages, and so on. largely succeeded, but of course not, it is not perfect. it's obvious. but we do our best, and therefore we are held to a standard that no other army has been held to in history. that's the first thing. the second thing is, in order to finish this we have to eliminate the terrorist army, and four of its 24 battalions

are in rafah. when we eliminate them we will be able to also get an alternative governance in gaza. that is my goal, to eliminate hamas, to ensure the demilitarization of hamas, and bring in gazans who are not threatened anymore by hamas and do not share its goal of destroying israel to run the civilian administration. and the third thing would be to rebuild gaza along peaceful lines, with the help of modern arab states. that is a practical plan. but stephanie, it goes their victory. none of these plans have any meaning if you do not eliminate hamas. and if we eliminate hamas, then i think that this is possible. prosperity is possible. the expansion of peace is possible. but we need to defeat hamas and bring the hostages back home. they go together. we have already brought half of them back and we will bring the other half back. this is my goal, and this is what the vast majority of israelis support.

>> and of course, the idea of these is extraordinary, but the path to get there has been devastating. so i want to talk about the power of hamas. back in december, the new york times reported that you encouraged payments to hamas from qatar shortly before the october 7th attack. did you underestimate what hamas was capable of doing? >> first of all, i did everything in my part to the great hamas in military power. i led three major military operations against hamas, which illuminated about 6000 of their fighters and some of their key leaders. but it did not root them out. and i think we are trying to do now is root them out, not have them research again, come back out of rafah with the battalions, and do what they vowed to do, to repeat the horrible october 7th massacre of beheading women, burning babies, taking hostages. they want to do it over and over again. we cannot let them do it.

as far as the money that was given to them, it was given to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe, to make sure the water pumps work, that the sewage pumps work, that electricity works. that was the goal, but we did everything in our power to degrade their military power. now we want to root them out and get a civilian administration that is not the whole into them and not the whole into the idea of destroying israel. that is the way forward. >> that was the goal? that was the goal, but october 7th happened and now you are in a full-blown war. so did you underestimate what hamas was capable of actually >> well, we certainly were surprised on that day, there is no question about that. but we got back on our feet immediately, and we are driving hamas out. we are doing it in the most difficult urban warfare conditions of modern times, because they have 35,000 terrorist in a dense urban area, 50 meters above ground, 50 meters in a system of 500 kilometers of tunnels. it is enormous. and i think they underestimated

the effect that we could take them out, once we turn things around. and we are. and we are committed to doing it, to finishing it. it is not easy, we are getting a bum rap on the international scene. you have this travesty, where the leaders of israel are being called war criminals, when we are fighting were criminals. we are fighting these genocidal hamas monsters, and then a court that was set up to prevent the repeat of the holocaust and genocide and other such savagery is is accusing israel of such crimes. it is absurd. but, you know, we have to fight it. the way we fight it is by fighting and winning. and we will. >> are you to blame for that bum rap? for 70 years the democratic party in the united states, for the most part, was in lockstep with israel, into about a decade ago. some democrats blame you for that rift. what do you say to them? >> well, first of all, i value the bipartisan support, which is still quite substantial. and i think it is a mainstay of

our policy, our natural interest and our policy. mind you, 80% of americans, according to the tracking polls show that 80% of americans identify with israel and not with hamas on that conflict. and that cuts across party lines. that is very important. it is true that there is a fringe element, and the progressive fringes of the democratic party that does not identify with israel. and by the way, does not identify that much with america. and some of these people, you know, support the demonstrations on the campuses. what do they chant on the campuses? they say death to america, death to israel, they burn american flags. and i think on the whole, this is not a democratic party. this is not the republican party. these are not the independents. this is not mainstream america. mainstream america identifies with israel. it is very important for me that they continue to do so. but it has nothing to do with me, it has a lot to do with

them, where they are going, how they see the world. most americans understand one thing. but israel and america stand for common values. for individual liberty, for individual rights. it does not make any difference if you are white, black, straight, israeli, arabic, you have human rights but also have the right of natural protection, security. people understand that, they value that. they see israel as part of america and america as part of israel, part of that same civilization. it has not changed. but for some people, they see it differently because they see america differently. so they see israel differently. and i have to tell you, that does not represent the broad spectrum of american opinion, and as far as i'm concerned, maintaining this bipartisan support is an integral part of our policy and we will continue to do everything we can to keep it. >> well, you have had a very special relationship with donald trump, with his family, and d.c. news is reporting that you are currently engaged in close conversations with

trump's team. can you confirm that? >> i am engaged in close conversations with president biden steam, with former president trump's people. anyone who comes here, democrats, republicans, everyday. including, by the way, yesterday. you republicans and democrats come here, and, how should i say this? i am an equal opportunity visitor and visitant. it is something that conforms to the basic policy, like i said, i want to make sure that the broad spectrum of american policy is supported, supports israel, and that we are open to them, hear their concerns, but also let them hear our concerns. and i think that is the only productive policy. so i meet with everyone, and i will continue to do so. >> was last time you spoke to former president trump or his son-in-law, jared kushner? >> i saw jared kushner i think six months ago, a few months ago. former president trump sent me a note when i won the

elections, but we have not spoken since. but again, i appreciated the support, both of president biden, what he said yesterday about this farce in the international court issuing warrants against the prime minister of israel, the defense minister of israel, i think what he said is more than outrageous, he is right. and i appreciate the support he has given us from the beginning of the war. me tell you, i also support and appreciate the support that i received from president trump that israel received, moving the embassy to jerusalem, declaring jerusalem as our capital, recognizing our sovereignty over the heights. i think these are all important things. that is the continuity that i like to see continue. >> my thanks to prime minister netanyahu for his time. susan and john still with me. susan, what was your take on what he said his relationship with both the current and former president are? >> well, look. there've been a lot of tensions, they have been rising, i would say, between

the biden administration and prime minister netanyahu . he tried really hard to not give an impression of that, but remember, there have been warnings from the president, even public warnings from the very beginning of israel's response to that horrific terrorist attack on october 7th. i remember very vividly president biden going there and saying do not overreact, do not make the mistake that we made after 9/11. be careful in how you prosecute this war. and i think it's a lot of ignored warnings, brushed aside warnings from the united states and others that has led to this unfortunate moment of the icc charges against netanyahu as well as hamas. and i that is one thing he is reacting to. as far as donald trump, i thought it was very interesting to see prime minister netanyahu squirm a little bit, frankly, to your question. because actually, while

republicans have been staunchly, loudly, vocally over- the-top in their uncritical support for israel in this conflict, donald trump personally has a real beef with netanyahu after giving him an enormous amount of support during his presidency, practically outsourcing american policy to israel and to netanyahu . trump was very mad at netanyahu. why? because he recognized the election of joe biden and congratulated joe biden in november of 2020 . for trump, everything is personal, and that includes foreign policy. >> john, this is the first time the icc has sought an arrest warrant for a close u.s. ally. what is your take in terms of this moment and this conflict? >> i think it appears to add a new chapter to the word intractable. in terms, and it is not a very satisfactory answer. but i am thinking, and i don't know what susan's view of this

would be, has there been a more intractable geopolitical question over the last 80 years? i don't think so. and everyone wants, not everyone, obviously, or it would happen. but a lot of people would like a two state solution. this is sort of in the policy world, we can lay this out. and then it smashes into reality. and that is what history is. and it's an issue that does not lend itself to our prevailing political vernacular. it does not lend itself to good week, that week. and i think whether it is the icc or the real, discernible impact this is having on the american presidential race, those being the theoretical things. and the real things being that hamas attacked israel, and there are people who are caught

up in this and suffering in the response. you know, i think you just have to have, as an american, i want somebody who thinks very deeply about these things actually in charge of our policy. and i think president biden does that. >> john, so good to see you. thank you for joining me. susan, thank you. when we come back, how long can trump go without bringing up nazi germany? can you believe i just said that? he made it about a month. the post that is getting major backlash from both sides of the aisle. from humans, really. when the 11th hour returns. all. sounds exhausting! nope. schwab's technology does the work. so if i spot an opportunity, in robotics or pets, i can buy those stocks ina few clicks. can't be that easy. it is with schwab!

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trump's defense rested today in his criminal trial. closing arguments will start on tuesday, but the long weekend will be very long for trump, because he is still under that straight gag order, and more reliant than ever on his allies to deliver the attack lines that he cannot. for more i will welcome christina greer, fordham university professor of political science. and veteran gop columnist and founder of the lincoln project. trump scheduled a rally in the bronx on thursday and a rally in d.c. on friday. what are the odds he is not going to talk about this trial? >> i think almost zero.

but i think these are two places that he has zero chance of winning electorally in november. i think these are places he thinks he can draw a crowd. oddly, i don't think you can do that in new york city or washington, d.c. but he seems to be avoiding, near as i can say, actually electoral college states he needs to win in november. >> what is your take on that, going to really a few blocks from the main campus of fordham, where you are, a place where, come on, manhattan? he is not winning here. >> right, i am a proud faculty member of the lincoln center campus. but going to the south bronx, i think it goes to this narrative that i can work with the blacks and the latinos. i don't think, as reid said, he is going to get much of a crowd. don't forget, though, this is a presidential candidate who is currently sitting in a courtroom almost every day of the week. so, you know, he has got to stay a little close to home. right now his home is in new

york as he is on trial yet again. i don't think he has the self- control to not talk about things, but i think it goes to this larger narrative, where he is saying at least i am reaching out. joe biden didn't come to the south bronx, joe biden has not come to these locations. that is part of his narrative to try to chip away at biden's support among blacks and latinos. i don't think it will work, but it is still something he can say it has rallies. >> let's talk about this video post that appeared to promise a unified reich under his next presidency . the video is now taken down, but it was on trump's social media page. what is your reaction to this? >> as i wrote over at sub stack this morning, we owe them no benefits of the doubt here. they did this, this was not an accident. this was not a junior staffer that has access to trump's social media account. it is either him or the guy who started as a caddie with him so many years ago.

so what i would say with this is take them at their word. and remember, the unified reich piece was as crazy as we've seen, and that is saying something. but remember, they also called for closing the border and mass deportations in this video. so it was not exactly what i would say trying to hit that core suburban audience that he desperately needs this november, but i will say this. they want this kind of world for america. these are not accidents. this is not like the guy getting the wrong stock footage from getty or wherever. they went looking for this stuff and they used it. >> let's take a look at president biden's response. >> what is next for america? >> this is on his official account? a unified reich? that is hitler's language. that is not america. he cares about holding onto power. i care about you. >> christina, what do you think?

>> i mean, we must believe donald trump when he post these things. i think part of it is he is trying to set up his supporters. and he is not speaking to independents or republicans. he is speaking to his staunch reporters, so that if november 5th knox on his way, he can have a repeat of january 6, 21. he wants to make sure people are galvanize for him. his language is deliberate, we must take him seriously. joe biden's response, obviously for democrats they want to know the president does not believe in hitler tactics or anti- semitism. but we have to be a lot more, i think, forceful as journalists, political scientists, everyone who is monitoring the selection to believe donald trump when he post this type of propaganda. >> new topic. president biden visited new hampshire and touted a bill that he signed focused on veterans health. he is talking policies and solutions while trump is sitting in a courtroom with a gag order. how much of a difference will this contrast make when americans go to vote?

>> i think it should make quite a difference. remember, not only is president biden trying to do right by americans and by veterans, particularly, here. trump wanted to kill the va. he didn't want it around, and only when he realized what a terrible political movie would be did he back off of it. but i think the dichotomy, also, is incredible. here is the president out on the trail talking about things he is doing for the american people, while trump is talking about nazi's and taking away birth control while he is on trial for sleeping with a porn star with a pregnant wife. what else do you need, america? this is not a hard choice! >> well, when you put it that way. tank you very much, christina, always good to see you. when we come back, inflation pushed consumers to get trickier. now major retailers want those customers back. what with their doing to lure them back in when the 11th hour continues. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler

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food. wendy's is now offering a three dollar breakfast deal and rivals like mcdonald's are offering lower-priced value meals. . to discuss, president and ceo of the federal reserve bank of chicago. we need an economic explainer. people are confused. they're exhausted, but they are also doing quite well, so i want to start with prices. they have been an issue for everyone. what is your take when you hear about big consumer brands cutting prices? >> good. but, you've had inflation that got way too high in the u.s. and in other countries around the world. incomes did not keep up with that. now, inflation slowed in 2023 actually, quite a lot. inflation came down almost as much as it has ever come down and we did not have a recession while that was happening, which was quite unusual, but prices are still higher than they were before and so you see people complaining about that. food inflation is more volatile, it is more up and down with

another inflations, so in a way, it is good to see, i'm not surprised to see that you are seeing a little deflation on the food side because that got way up in the years previous to 2023, as well. >> you see a lot of data on the economy every day, but you also live in the real world and your experience what experience is expensive life. uss and someone says, what is the u.s. economy like? >> there are some cross currents. overall, from the fed, as you know, the federal reserve act, by law, gives the fed a dual mandate, that we are supposed to look at two things and two things only. maximize employment and stabilize prices. by those measures, by the dual mandate goals, 2023 was a

strong year. the unemployment rate is still under 4%. inflation is coming down from its peaks, but that said, we have some cross currents. the strongest thing is the job market. the weakest thing, by far, has been inflation in prices. and where that leaves you, no one knows. in the sense that what is to come is often not -- i think the economy is doing well but we get shocks from outside the united states that can throw us off and we have seen that happen with supply chains. we seen that happen with oil prices and so i think we are kind of keeping our fingers crossed. >> one top official says we need several more months of good data on inflation before

an interest rate cut. what is really going on when it comes to inflation? >> well, there are two parts on that. i am not a fan of tying her hands even a little bit and saying well, if i get two months then i will do xyz on rates. i think it's a bad idea. i think you should manage by what the data comes in and try not to make as many predictions. what is happened on inflation, if you take a step back, you don't want to look at just one month or even three months. you want to take a longer look and inflation got high, almost double digits, and it has been coming down, if you look from the heights, as they say, in 2023 we had one of the biggest drops in inflation we had ever seen in the united states, and we did it without a recession, which is very unusual. we just need to keep making progress on that.

>> before we go, the psyche of the american consumer. lots of things that were not considered luxuries before now are. things have gotten expensive. however, we have more purchasing power today than we did in 2019. what's going on with the american consumer psyche? >> there is never been a bigger difference between the vibes and the actual numbers we are facing right now, and i don't think we totally understand that . maybe it is rooted a little bit in, if you ask people how is your's personal situation and they say pretty good. how is the national economy? they don't like it at all. i think a lot of that comes from inflation being very unpopular and there is a bit of lag behind conditions but like i say, it has these cross currents going. there are some things that are very strong in the economy. there are some things that are very aggravating in the economy, and that melts into a little bit of this vibes situation where people are more upset than you would think they would be when the unemployment rate

is low and the economy is growing so for the fed, between the doves in the hawks, i always say we should be the data dogs in the first rule of the data dogs is no one to walk and no one to sniff and the time to sniff is when there are a lot of things coming in you don't know. we are just going to have to wait and see before we can decide. >> austin, still a nerd. great to see you! more on the 11th hour right after this. hour right after this. what straps bold to a rocket and hurtles it into space? boring does. boring makes vacations happen, early retirements possible, and startups start up. because it's smart, dependable, and steady. all words you want from your bank. for nearly 160 years, pnc bank has been brilliantly boring so you can be happily fulfilled... which is pretty un-boring if you think about it.

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