ongoing republican primaries, though she suspended her candidacy long ago and trump wrapped up the nomination. to what you're saying, the biden campaign made more of an outreach to those voters than trump has. we'll see what happens in the months ahead. brendan buck, msnbc political analyst, thank you, as always. and thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" on this thursday morning. "morning joe" starts now. >> if he decides he's going to run, would that preclude any run that you would possibly make yourself? >> i would not run if president trump ran. >> i don't put up with bullies, and when you kick back, it hurts them more if you're wearing heels. i'm nikki haley, and i'm running for president. times change, and so has trump. he's gotten more unstable and unhinged. >> biden has been a catastrophe, so i will be voting for trump. >> first, she would not run

against him, then she did. >> mika, hold on. hold on. >> i have a list. >> i'm so shocked. i'm so shocked. >> okay. >> we want to hear your list. >> it's a list. i'm checking it off. >> okay. >> she wouldn't run against him, then she did. three months ago, he was too unhinged to get a driver's license. now -- yeah. now, nikki haley will vote for donald trump for president of the united states. good morning, everybody. >> willie, this is one of those, i'm shocked, shocked. she's done this over and over again, right? >> yeah. >> i will say, let's just say it off the top, this happens in politics. i mean, you know, people say nasty things about other people when they're running against them for president. >> in the primary. >> then they come together. i do think, though, everybody has to make a choice. in 2024, you know, nikki haley could have made the choice that a lot of conservative republicans have made. i'm going to be talking to

charlie sykes about that in a little bit. that is, you know what, stay conservative. don't go along with the authoritarian. don't go along with the guy that wants to amass more power in the white house and more power in washington, d.c., than any president in american history. so her choice is support an authoritarian and a guy who has promised he's going to be an authoritarian, and i could go down the list, but he is promising it every day. "vote for me," donald trump says, "and i will be a menace to american democracy." nikki haley basically hinted at that and also called him a bully. said he was unstable. said he was unhinged, too unhinged to get a driver's license, as mika said. now, it's like, oh, biden, he's a disaster. i love how they talk about biden being a disaster. they can't really name anything. they go, oh, student loans, it's

so horrible. they compare student loans with people trying to overthrow american democracy, not understanding just how out of it and how stupid. they don't call joe biden a socialist or a marxist or a communist with the dow over 40,000, with the economy stronger than it's ever been. again, them not realizing just how stupid they sound. but, you know, everybody's got to choose. she has chosen. unlike a lot of good conservatives, she's chosen the authoritarian leader. so let her go with that, and it's on her, not us. >> yeah. by the way, she could make the choice that so many of her own supporters have been making in the primaries but not voting for donald trump. not saying that i love joe biden but saying, i'm not willing to take the country down the road of donald trump again, which we're seeing in primary after primary. she's getting 15%, 20% on a

campaign that she shut down a couple months ago. a campaign that she ended by quoting margaret thatcher and saying, never just follow the crowd. suggesting, i'm not just going to fall in line with donald trump. >> that's all she does. >> i'm never going to fall in line with trump. now, here she is, a move that seemed inevitable to most people. she called him unhinged several times. he used a birther attack on her. he went after her husband who is deployed in the united states military overseas. asking, where's the husband? well, he was defending the country after the world. >> right. >> none of that seems to matter. go back to ted cruz and marco rubio. we've had this conversation a thousand times. it just doesn't matter. even take out the personal stuff. as you guys point out, we're not talking about, is it joe biden or john mccain? is it joe biden or mitt romney? is it joe biden or george bush? we're talking about a guy who has promised to undermine the foundations of this country and has already attempted to do so

in our last election. >> yeah, i mean, she could have waited perhaps for a moment to come her way with all the different dynamics in this election. you never know. she's chosen to go with trump. >> never know. along with joe, willie, and me, we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. the president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. nbc news national affairs analyst john heilemann. partner and chief political columnist at puck. former white house director of communications topalmieri. she's co-host of the podcast "how to win 2024" with claire mccaskill. and msnbc contributor and author of the book "how the right lost its mind," charlie sykes. so here we are. here is more of what nikki haley said yesterday in her first public appearance since exiting the race back in march, followed

by what she was saying about trump during the primary. >> i'd put my prioriies on a president who has the backs of our allies and holds our enemies to account, would secure the border, no more excuses. a president that would support capitalism and freedom. a president who understands we need less debt, not more debt. trump has not been perfect on these policies. i have made that clear many, many times. but biden has been a catastrophe. so i will be voting for trump. having said that, i stand by what i said in my suspension speech. trump would be smart to reach out to the millions of people who voted for me and continue to

support me and not assume that they're just going to be with him. and i genuinely hope he does that. >> you know, that is one of the most remarkably unmoored from facts description on why you're voting for donald trump i've ever heard in my life. i mean, it is mind boggling that somebody who actually claims to know anything about policy would say what she just said. i'm not shocked she's been cynical. she's been cynical her entire political career. doesn't shock me she went back to trump, but you're going to have to do a lot better than that, nikki. i mean, hold our enemies to account? hold our enemies to account? you know, john heilemann, where do we begin? when we talk about how he

lavishes praise on vladimir putin, trump, lavishes phrase on xi, sends, quote, love letters to kim jong-un. he loves our enemies. he loves the tyrants that hate the united states of america to their very core. what is she talking about? joe biden has hemmed in china in the pacific. we've seen it. we've talked about it. it's a part of the historical record. he's leading the effort to push back vladimir putin, where donald trump says, basically, turn it over. i'm going to end this war in day one. called putin brilliant for what he did. and, yes, he said he has a love affair with kim jong-un, the most ruthless tyrant who wants to nuke the west coast of the united states of america. so hold our enemies to account?

that is completely fact-free garbage. then you go to supporting capitalism. let me say again, the dow is over 40,000 points. sunak had the economy in britain that we have here, he'd be in much better shape on july 4th when the next election is called. we have, and conservative economists and columnists will say this, we have the strongest economy in the world. there's not a close second. we are the envy of the world. somehow, donald trump is going to do better than that, throwing up tariffs and protective borders, that even "the wall street journal" calls, you know, a nightmare? then, finally, the one that -- again, because i got to congress because i was worried about the

national debt -- she says joe biden has been a disaster on the national debt, so she's going to support donald trump. donald trump, in four years, raised america's national debt more, just him, 45, than presidents 1 through 44 did over 240 years. i mean, think about this. think about just how wrong -- we were supposed to play back-to-back clips. we were supposed to play those clips and then what she said in the campaign. i said, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is how people spread disinformation and lies and get away with it. you just let shit keep going. sometimes you need to stop things and just explain how big

her lies were there. she lied about the economy. she lied about debt. just look. just look at the numbers. she lied through her teeth about debt, and she lied about donald trump holding our enemies accountable when he actually praises our enemies and sends love letters to them and talks about how brilliant they are because they can hold down millions and millions of their countrymen and women. i'll let you go from there. just seriously, i'm not shocked at the endorsement. i am shocked that she would sink so low so fast and lie about the facts as badly as she did. >> mm-hmm. >> morning, joe. how are ya? >> i'm doing well. how are you doing? >> the rudy coffee is flowing where you are. >> if you're not shocked by that, john. it's very funny, ha, ha, ha. but if you're not shocked by her lying through her teeth that way.

like, she could have picked three, four other issues. she could have talked about afghanistan, talked about inflation. she could have talked about two or three -- like the cost of gasoline. she picks these three things where she actually picks donald trump on policy, his weakest points, then lied to the american people about it. so, yeah, yeah, i'm not laughing about that. >> i'm not laughing either. i was just saying you're fired up. that was my only comment about the coffee. >> i'm very happy and calm. >> good. look, i mean, to just say a couple quick things. one, of course, there's a history in presidential primaries of tough primaries, opponents saying tough things about each other. >> sure. >> on both sides of the aisle. there's also, a little further over, garden variety political cynicism, where people engage in politics and we say things that maybe would be hard to walk back if we really held people to

their words. to joe's point, this is a different category of thing here. >> yeah. >> i mean, as you know, i was out there. i listened to her as she got tougher and tougher on trump, from iowa to new hampshire, south carolina. i went to a bunch of the events, listened to her get closer and closer to the edge. she wasn't making critiques of trump on policy primarily. she was saying things like, "i've been in the room with donald trump and vladimir putin," you know, and coming close to saying, you know, that he's not fit, competent to serve. you made the point earlier, mika, about the driver's license, he shouldn't get a driver's license. you know, she came right up to the edge of making the critiques that never trump, that progressive democrats and never trump republicans have made. those are existential arguments. those are not about any policy. they're about, this man is not fit to serve. this man is a threat to

democracy. all of that, she was right in that zone. then to retreat to policy is so craven and cynical. to joe's point, i think, what we have learned about her, the most cynical, the most negative critical people about nikki haley have always said, she is ambition incarnate. you cannot believe a word out of her mouth. she's say whatever, and change her mind from monday to wednesday, wednesday to thursday. people were saying, you're been misogynist about it. you don't hold men to those standards. some of us bend over backwards in this winter period to say, maybe she has finally come to jesus here. she's not going to go back. she'll stake her claim. the theory that trump loses this fall, she can say, i was right all along. i want to say here that, a, we should never believe a word she says about anything ever again.

and, b, she must not be allowed, by republican voters who continue to go to the polls, she's still getting 20% of the vote. >> right. >> this month, now there's still 20% of republicans in the primaries still voting for her. they must not let her in november -- >> those are people choosing against trump, which is interesting. willie -- >> let me just say, what they can't let her do is, if trump loses in november, stand up and say, oh, i told you so. she forfeits the right to say "i told you so, and i was always against donald trump." she's now back on the trump train, and there has to be accountability for her politically going forward. >> willie? >> yeah, i mean, as john says, it is exactly the case she was making at the end of the primary season in places like new hampshire. we saw it with our own eyes. she said, "don't come crying to me when donald trump loses in november. i'm telling you right now, i beat joe biden. he doesn't." that was the core of her argument at the end of the

primary. jen palmieri, the biden campaign weighed in yesterday after nikki haley said she'd be voting for donald trump. saying, "nothing has changed for the millions of republican voters who continue to cast their ballots against donald trump in the primaries and care deeply about the future of our democracy." the biden team also shared a video montage on social media of haley primary voters who say they'd choose biden over trump in november. this is a section of voters, jen, that the biden campaign has been courting, continues to court, those 20% that john was talking about in the primaries in places like pennsylvania and indiana, nebraska. and for his part, donald trump said during the campaign that he didn't want nikki haley voters to vote for him. they'd be banished from the maga camp for the sin of supporting nikki haley in the primaries. >> yeah, there's forever banned t-shirts that nikki haley gave to her donors. this is going to be a big priority for the biden campaign. you know, there's the group,

republicans against trump, the sarah longwell group. that universe of voters is bigger than it's ever been. there was a universe of voters, republicans against trump, in '16 and '20, and it's bigger in '24 in terms of who biden has open to him that he can reach out to to try to win over their support. you're not getting 20% of them, but if you get a few percent of the 20%, that is going to -- you know, we're talking a tight election, that can be the margin of victory. the thing that -- you know, when i heard her, when i heard the haley video, i thought it was from the campaign, from the primary. she was talking about someone who would stand with our allies, and, as joe said, talking about debt. she can't even be intellectually consistent in the moment that she's saying she's going to vote for trump. >> right. >> and it just, you know, contributes so much to cynicism. >> yes. >> it lifts up trump's message

that, like, see, none of this matters. it's all just a game. you know, my new friend, sarah matthews, former trump staffer, griffin, both women who oppose trump now, it's sad. you see them on trump and they're saying, "see, this is what politicians do." it's not what all politicians do. it is what nikki haley is doing, what people who prop up trump do. none of these people are serious, it says. >> we're going to look at her during the 2016 campaign, how she framed -- this is 2020, actually, how she -- sorry, alex. what are we showing? oh, okay. here is nikki haley in 2023. >> times change and so has trump. he's gotten more unstable and unhinged. if you mock the service of a combat veteran, you don't deserve a driver's license, let

alone being president of the united states. we've seen him get confused. he was confused about me having something to do with keeping security away from the capitol. he was confused when he said biden was going to run us into world war ii. he is not qualified to be the president of the united states. it's not normal to insult our military heros and veterans. he was thin skinned and easily distracted. it's not normal to spend $50 million in campaign contributions on personal court cases. there is no way that the american people are going to vote for a convicted criminal. it is not normal to threaten people who back your opponent. he went and was trying to buddy up with putin. every time he was in the same room with him, he got weak in the knees. and it is not normal to call on russia to invade nato countries. donald trump has done all of that and more in just the past month. >> made so much sense.

jonathan lemire, what do you think is behind this decision? is she running to be vp? could that be already being cooked up? and what's the opportunity for the biden campaign? >> well, just about everything she said there, we don't need to fact check. she was right. the timing of this is puzzling. no one made her endorse donald trump yesterday. no one made her say she would vote for him. there has been a little speculation and media reports she could be a vp pick or back to the trump cabinet, although trump himself publicly said last week she was not in the running to be his vice president. >> we can't believe anything he says. >> we can't believe what he says either. it's hard to say. but i should note, in that same speech yesterday, she delivered a full-throated defense of ukraine, saying the united states needs to give ukraine whatever it takes. give them every weapon they need in order to defeat vladimir putin in russia. then the next breath said, "i'm going to vote for donald trump," who we know will not do that. >> is rooting for russia. >> is siding up with putin time

and time again. charlie sykes, rank hypocrisy at the highest level, and deeply disappointing to many republicans who thought haley would hold strong. my question, how much do you think this matters? yes, there are people coming out there in every primary still voting for her. are they going to take cues from her and say, okay, now i'll vote for trump, or are they like, i really wasn't for nikki haley, i was against donald trump. i'm going to stay that way. >> i don't think it'll have that much of an effort. she's saying she hopes donald trump reaches out to her voters, but donald trump did nothing for her. nikki haley -- in many ways, this is peak nikki haley. she turns out to be a cheap date for donald trump. but this is a choice that she made. it is a very different choice than liz cheney, adam kinzinger, chris christie, mike pence made. i don't know that it actually makes that much of a difference, but it is so revealing about, first of all, you know, front and center, about her character.

i once wrote a piece called "the unbearable lightness of nikki." there is nothing surprising about her getting back on the trump train. she's done on and off, on and off. but, you know, to joe's point, how do you make a full-throated defense of ukraine and then turn around and endorse someone who has made it clear that he will pull out of nato, he will abandon ukraine, who actually invited vladimir putin to invade ukraine? it makes no sense, except in the context of nikki haley's unbridled ambition. one footnote here. if you look at the screen of her endorsement, she's now affiliated with the hudson institute, which is one of the, you know, conservative thinktanks out there. the moment she signed up for that, i think it was inevitable she was going to endorse donald trump because this is what the republican donor class demands. there is no way that the hudson institute would em prbrace her

unless she is going to basically bow the knee. but i don't know that this changes the dynamics of the race at all. frankly, i don't know that it positions her particularly well. she's not going to be the vice president. i think that's absurd. and i don't know that the maga world will ever welcome her back in because she is, in their minds, she was disloyal and is a neocon. you know, her cynicism has led her to a position where i think she's going to find herself very lonely, very soon. >> well, she's put herself in no man's land. >> exactly. >> it's where she is politically. >> yeah. >> those people that are voting for her are voting against donald trump, not for her. they're not going to go, oh, nikki haley and donald trump, sure. when you're voting against donald trump, like, months after he has nobody running against him, you're not going to vote for him in the general election. rev, i just want to go back and

look at these words. she said, let's see, i'm comparing this. "we need to vote for somebody who will hold our enemies to account," she says of donald trump. of the campaign she said, "donald trump buddied up to vladimir putin. donald trump calls on vladimir putin to invade nato countries." her words, just like she called him too unhinged to have a driver's license. said, "no one should ever be president who mocked the service of combat veterans." which donald trump has done and did during this campaign, and nikki haley said that means he's unqualified. talked about how confused he was all the time, how thin skinned he was and confused when he was talking to other world leaders. not qualified to have a driver's license, so on and so on. it's just like she is so trumpy,

and she thinks she can lie to the american people about donald trump's record on the debt. she thinks she can lie to the american people about donald trump and how he treats our allies, when she ran against how he treats our allies. but i just -- at the end of the day, i agree. i don't think it has any effect. what do you think? >> i definitely think it has no effect. in fact, it has negative effect on nikki haley's -- whatever she intends to do in the future. the people in double digits, some over 20%, that voted for nikki haley even after she withdrew from the race showed there are a body of republicans that want to get out of this donald trump cult. she could have been a leader, if not the major leader in that, because sooner or later, people

are going to leave this cult in the republican party and redeem what conservative america is about. she just took herself out of the running, put herself in the list of long, cynical, political operatives that will do whatever it takes and goes with whatever way the wind blows. she's only cheapened herself. she won't be embraced by trump or the maga crowd, and she has now eliminated herself from serious-minded, conservative republicans that wants to redeem the party sooner or later and get past this trump era. >> yeah. >> so i think she only amounts that she was not someone that could rise to the occasion of standing up for something. >> what is so interesting, she had set herself up perfectly politically for running four years from now and could have very easily said, i warned you. i told you. >> yup. >> and you voted for him anyway, and he lost again, for the eighth year in a row. he lost in '17, '18, '19, '20,

'21, '22, '23, '24. let's try something different in '28. i told you he would do this. i won't lose. she could have done all of that. >> she had that going. >> but she just couldn't be politically disciplined enough to not immediately see just the short-term gain. charlie sykes, instead of doing what ronald reagan did in 1976, and that is run against gerald ford and set himself up as the alternative four years later after ford lost. now, again, she's in this sort of no man's land, no woman's land, no politician's land, where, you know, the maga people are never going to support her, and the people that were voting for her at the end would say, well, there goes nikki again. >> yup. >> nikki haley is no ronald reagan, is she? she was never going to do that. also, i think this is her calculation that there is no

future in the republican party for someone that does not kiss the ring with donald trump. i think that she's making the calculation that trump is, in many ways, forever. even after 2024, if she doesn't get on board, she'd be considered disloyal. again, this is all about her personal ambition. it is not about the country. i think this is why it is important to highlight this contrast between what she says and knows about donald trump and the threat that he poses to our allies, to the country, to the constitutional order, and, yet, her willingness to say, yes, but my personal ambition trumps all of that. that's more important to me. i am going to put my ambition ahead of country. i'm going to put party ahead of country. it's just that -- again, it feels so nikki haley. this is what she has done over and over again. remember when chris christie dropped out, and he was caught on the open mic saying she's not

up for it, she's going to get crushed? well, he was certainly right, that she wasn't up for it. nikki haley was never the one that we were w waiting for, who would take the principled stand against donald trump, which makes yesterday's announcement absolutely not surprising at all. we're probably done talking about nikki haley for a very, very long time, aren't we? because in what way is she going to be relevant ever again? yet, she did this because she wants to be relevant, right? she wants to be -- >> maybe she wants to be vp. >> there's no chance that donald trump will ever name her vp. zero chance. just look at the reaction of maga world to her. she is still exkpun kaexcommunim that. she's very much in a no man's land for a while. >> charlie sykes, thank you so much for being on this morning. >> thank you. >> we've got a lot more to cover. still ahead on "morning joe," donald trump will hold a campaign rally today in one of the bluest counties in america. we'll talk to the congressman

who represents that area. first, new polling shows a majority of americans have a false perception of the u.s. economy. steve rattner is standing by with more of that reality check. you're watching "morning joe." we're back in 90 seconds. 90 secs

president biden canceled another $7.7 billion in student loans. biden is getting on the good side of young voters. he is cancelling student debt. he is loosening marijuana laws. then he's going ruin it all by banning tiktok. i'm just saying. some more news from washington today. the rnc headquarters was placed on lockdown after two viles of blood were delivered to the building. when he heard, rudy giuliani was like, good, my lunch is here. >> jimmy fallon last night. despite strong economic numbers, new polling finds most americans believe the country is in a recession. it is not. in the latest harris poll conducted for "the guardian," 56% of adults expressed the belief we are in a recession. that includes 67% of republicans, 49% of democrats,

and 53% of independents. although inflation has fallen sharply over the past year, 72% of adults still think that is increasing. joining us now, former treasury official, "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner to help us separate perception from the facts of this economy. steve, good morning. we can start with that idea of the united states being in a recession right now, which it plainly is not. we can talk about why so many americans believe that. let's talk first in your chart about where we really are. >> willie, it is quite -- excuse me -- an extraordinary poll. we've seen polls before that show americans having a more negative view on the economy. i've never seen one quite like this. these are the numbers you mentioned in your lead-in. roughly more than half of americans think we're in a recession. it is divided somewhat by party. more republicans, 67%, feel it than democrats, but even democrats, 49% feel it. we've seen this divergence

before. interestingly enough, it flips with every election, not surprisingly. here's the reality. the reality is that the economy has basically been growing since covid, except for a small downturn here. under joe biden, it's grown 2.8% a year, which is slightly faster than it was growing under trump, even before covid hit. so you can see, every quarter, we've had reasonably strong economic growth. so why people feel this is really quite a mystery. >> steve, what about this other low unemployment, surging stock market, yet, dot, dot, dot. how do you explain what's going on with the economy? >> you have the same kind of results when you look at those kinds of things. 50% of americans think unemployment is at a 50-year high. 50% think it is at a 50-year high. unemployment is actually at a 50-year low. it's really amazing. unemployment is below 4%. it's been below 4% for months and months now.

it's just extraordinary that people think we're at a 50-year high. you can see some of the highs over here. another issue is stocks. half of americans think stocks are down this year. stocks are actually up 11% this year. they're up 45% since joe biden took office. complete disconnect in people's minds between perception and reality of the stock market. >> well, i mean, there are some people who are legitimately feeling the pinch still, and, yet, though, overall, americans have a very negative perception of biden's economy. is that fair? what do you see? >> what's interesting, and i was looking at the numbers before, is that if you ask people how their own finances are, about 75% think they're okay. that really goes all the way back to 2018. pretty consistently. what's happened in the last number of years, and not just under biden but it really started back in 2019 or thereabouts, the perception of

how local economies are doing has deteriorated. the perception of how people -- the national economy is doing has deteriorated. people have created this dichotomy in their minds between the national economy, their local economy, and themselves. what's also interesting, and this is from other polls that have come out lately, what is also interesting is the way divergence between sentiment and approval has occurred. people's sentiment about the economy has been trending up. we had one bad number the other day, but we'll have to see if it is an aberration or if it jumps around a little bit. the general trend has been improving sentiment. on the other hand, biden's approval ratings have been trending down. now, there are obviously a lot of other things going on, particularly, the war in gaza, so on and so forth, but there seems to be now a spread between how people feel about the economy to some degree and how they feel about biden. >> let me bring jen palmieri

into this. what does the biden campaign do with this? there is not just what steve has laid out, but you have politicians, nikki haley, the trump campaign, screaming from the rooftops pretty much anything about the biden economy being, you know, a complete failure and not a lot of truth to what they're saying. then also some right-leaning networks echoing what you could argue is misinformation or at least loose facts. how does the biden campaign pierce through this? >> i mean, the first thing i'd want to try to understand is how is this -- is to look at the debt and understand why this is happening. it is interesting, steve says sort of where things diverged from what reality is and how people feel about it was around '19/'20. i think people are still in just such trauma from covid, from what happened to jobs, what happened to prices, supply chain during that time. they're still just feeling very

uncertain. you know, prices are still high. inflation is not growing, but we don't have deflation. you really want to let people know, there is a strong foundation under us. it is not so much biden taking credit, i did this, i did that, i made everything better. >> right. >> but believe in the strong foundation of the economy so you know it is real and something we're going to build on. then let people know what you're doing to make things more affordable to them. that's like the cost of insulin going down. note when prices are decreasing, that we're seeing that some with major chains deciding to do that. show people both the big picture it's better, but also the small differences in their own life, of ways they're trying to make things more affordable. whether it is through student loans, health care, or even just noting when prices are dropping. i feel like then maybe it can take hold for people to be a little more real. >> steve rattner is going to stick around for our next discussion at the table here.

the uk will hold a new election in july. we'll have a live report from london on the british prime minister's surprising announcement. the fight to keep his party in power and the impact this will have on u.s. relations. "morning joe" will be right back.

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trump's attorneys found classified documents in his bedroom four months after the fbi searched mar-a-lago. the lawyers knew trump was hiding something when they saw a box labeled "books." >> now, to be fair, trump rarery goes into his bedroom. as we've recently learned, he does most of his sleeping in court. now, the new -- [ applause ] all right. welcome back to "morning joe." it is 44 past the hour. the united kingdom will hold its general election on july 4th. british prime minister rishi sunak made the surprise announcement yesterday outside 10 downing street. the july 4th date comes months before it was expected. sunak had until december to call an election that could have happened as late as january 28th of next year. sunak's conservative party, which has ruled for the past 14 years, has seen its support steady dwindle.

the center-left labor party is strongly favored in the upcoming election with multiple polls showing it about 20 points ahead. joining us now live from london is nbc news international correspondent john letterman. he is just outside parliament. what was behind the surprise news? >> reporter: mika, the smart money had been prime minister sunak would wait until the fall to hold the elections, in part, to give himself more time to try to turn around his party's political fortunes by then. he appears to have made the calculation that it wasn't going to get much better. in fact, some recent positive economic news with inflation plummeting down to 2.3%, down from a high of 11% a couple years ago, made this a good time to try to kickstart this campaign. so as of this morning, this six-week campaign has now started with a bang.

both sunak and labor leader starmer are hitting the campaign trail today. sunak will be in scotland, while starmer will be in kent. the campaigns mirror frustrations we're hearing from voters in the united states, as well. a lot of frustration with the economy. frustration with the failures of the government to stop immigration and to secure the borders with rishi sunak campaigning on the beginning of his newly-enacted plan to send asylum seekers who cross in small boats to the uk on flights to rwanda, saying the flights will start after the july 4th election. of course, if you're starmer and the labor party, they've promised to scrap that plan if they are elected. interestingly, mika, from the labor leader, we're not hearing big, bold campaign promises, exactly what he is going to do. in fact, his message seems to be

that he is going to be the one that is going to bring stability to british politics after a tumultuous period under 14 years of conservative leadership. we've had a rotating cast of prime ministers. there has been the perception that this government has been unable to deliver on its promises, to turn the economy around, to deal with the crisis in the national health service, and, of course, to deal with asylum seekers and irregular migration, as well. starmer campaigning as the person to bring order and stability to that. that's giving an opener to the conservatives to say, the labor party doesn't even really have a plan at this point. they're unprepared to lead this government. one person who will not be participating in this election, we learned this morning, is nigel farage, the far-right leader and champion of brexit, who was expected to potentially campaign as part of the reform party. he announced just this morning

that he is not going to do that. he says, instead, he is going to focus on his bigger priority, which he says is to help donald trump get elected in the united states. joe. >> thank you so much, josh lederman. greatly appreciate it. let's bring in pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of the "wall street journal," eugene robinson. steve rattner with us, as well. steve, of course, also a reporter in thatcher's britain in the early 1980s. gene, let's start with you. let me ask you your initial thoughts about this election being called early. why do you think he went ahead and called it early when he and the tre tories are deeply unpopular in britain? >> maybe sunak wanted it to be his personal independence day. he wants to be free of the

responsibilities of being prime minister. i think he will be. i took a look last night at the polling in britain, and it is dismal for the tories. it is something like 23 points is the poll average. predictions are a huge labor majority when all is said and done. and keir starmer, the leader of the labor party, is following the rule. you know, if your opponent is making mistake after mistake, don't interrupt him. so i think that's why he is being so sort of namby-pamby in terms of coming out with proposals that are firm and, you know, a ten-point plan for this or that. because he figures he doesn't have to. people are just tired of the

tories after all this time. i think he's probably right. >> steve rattner, i mean, the tories have been in power for so long there. you look at -- and, of course, their economy is not doing nearly as well as ours is -- but you look at the leaders who have been there recently. you have sunak. before that, you had the head of cabbage in liz truss. before that, boris. theresa may. brexit mixed in there which ripped the party in half. i mean, they've had one failed prime minister after another. this has been a torrid, horrible run for the british conservatives. do they have any shot of keeping keir starmer out of 10 downing?

>> it seems very unlikely, joe. the polls are extraordinary. more than a 20-point gap. rishi sunak has a 16% approval rating. as you say, it's been 14 years. we've not had a party in power in 14 years, really since the days of fdr. the only reason they stayed in power 14 years was because the labor party went through a period of moving far left, including some whiffs of anti-semitism and other unattractive features and couldn't mount a credible opponent to the conservative candidate. let's put this in perspective in a couple respects. first of all, as has been mentioned, leaders are unpopular around the world. we've talked about how joe biden at times, maybe at the moment, is, in fact, at 40%, the most popular leader among the group of seven, the seven countries in the world. there's a lot of voter discontent in the developed world because of the economy and inflation, immigration, so

forth. britain has its own issues. low productivity, low investment economy for a while. average lows for today, after the 14 years of the tories, it's essentially unchanged. they're up a tiny fraction. people have not improved their standard of living for more than 14 years. then on top of that, you have the problems with the national health service, which used on the pride of britain. you have people waiting to get elective surgeries. more than four hours to get an ambulance. there is a huge amount of discontent among the prettyish public, and i think it is also certain we'll have a change in government on july 4th. >> interesting. as we close out the hour, jen palmieri, thanks for being on. i'd love to get your and john heilemann's final thoughts campaign wise as we head into the memorial day weekend. what will you be watching for, jen, over the next few days,

especially as trump's criminal trial is on pause? is the campaign thinking of how to handle days leading up to a verdict? also, will nikki haley be a factor? >> i'll take the last one first. i don't think she will be a factor at all. i think her anti-vote, the vote for her is an anti-trump vote, and the voters are open to biden. i know the campaign is going to make that a big priority. you'll see more of that over the course of the summer. i think that with the trial, trump has his bronx rally today, i believe. >> oh, mm-hmm. >> right? the biden campaign just put out a really tough ad aimed at black voters and some pretty racist things that donald trump has said about that. so i think, you know, take a look at that, everyone. it's a sign of things to come in terms of the hard-hitting stuff for the campaign. >> right.

>> when you look at, i think, what the campaign is also trying to do is understand that the june debate is their big moment, right? that is the moment to really frame up the choice. i think, you know, in terms of the senate taking action on the border, at least trying to take action on the border, some of the things the campaign is laying down, now you see that's all building to being on stage with trump and being able to hold him accountable on these issues. >> face-to-face. >> and really frame that choice face-to-face. >> jen, thank you. john heilemann, the ad she was talking about we'll shop at the top of the next hour. you can take a look at that. your thoughts? >> after trump does his thing in the bronx, goes to maryland this weekend to headline the libertarian party convention. >> okay. >> it is donald trump versus robert f. kennedy jr., trying to claim that. trump suddenly realized bobby kennedy jr. is a problem for him, too. >> right. >> this is about, i think, him trying to deny the libertarian

nomination people, you might say it is meaningless. it is a thing that would help bobby kennedy jr. get on more ballots. both sides uniquely, strange, you know, independent candidates usually help one side or the other. this is a case where both sides are worried about bobby kennedy jr. sunak started dry. you think about all the problems this guy has with low approval ratings and the strike with labor. the clouds were gathering before he got out on the street on downing street. huge month of july for the special relationship. british election followed by the nato summit in washington, d.c., followed by the republican convention, where you could end up with a labor prime minister and donald trump looking at each other about what that might hold for the next four years. >> also mentioned rfk. a piece on his running mate on the front page of "the new york times." "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner, thank you for being on this morning. ahead on "morning joe,"

democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut will join us ahead of a vote today to try to revive a bipartisan border security bill that republicans blocked this year. also ahead, democratic congressman ritchie torres of new york will join the conversation. as donald trump plans to hold a campaign rally in his district tonight. "morning joe" will be right back. voices of people with cidp: cidp disrupts. cidp derails. let's be honest... all: cidp sucks!

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welcome back. look at that beautiful shot of new york city. it is thursday, may 23rd. we start now with the second hour of "morning joe" with jonathan lemire, reverend al sharpton, eugene robinson still with us. joining the conversation, we have the host of the podcast "on brand with donny deutsch," donny deutsch. good to have you on board this morning. also at the stable, democratic congressman richie torres of new york. there is something going on in his district tonight. just a little something, right? this evening, the former president is set to hold a rally at the -- how do i say this -- cratona park in the bronx? biden defeated trump in the bronx by 26 points in 2020. 2016, donald trump lost the bronx to hillary clinton by nearly 80 points. ahead of that rally, the biden/harris 2024 campaign is out with a brand-new ad,

highlighting the dire threat donald trump poses to black america if he is re-elected. >> i'm joe biden. i approve this message. >> of course i hate these people. >> donald trump disrespecting black folk is nothing new. he was sued for refusing to rent his apartments to black families and called for the execution of five innocent black and brown teenagers. >> it is anger. >> it is why trump stood with white supremacists, warned of a bloodbath if he winloses the ne election, and vows to be a dictator who wants revenge on his enemies. who do you think that is? >> of course i hate these people. >> rev, your thoughts on that ad? >> i think that ad is, first of all, accurate. >> right. >> i was involved in fighting him on housing discrimination and marched on him about the central park five. they're not stretching the truth. that is his record. you must remember, that in all of the racial issues we've had

in new york, from the '80s when a black kid was killed for being in a white neighborhood, until now, the only race-sensitive case donald trump ever stood up on was to say that five black and brown young men should face the death penalty. >> right. >> when a white woman was brutally and viciously beaten and raped in central park. ends up they didn't do it and he still wouldn't take it back. he never stood up on any other issue. he was president when george floyd happened. the biggest case in recent memory, he was president and did nothing of it, other than say, if the looting starts, the shooting starts. congressman torres, you and i worked on many of these issues together. >> yeah. >> for him to come to your district, first of all, probably imports some of the crowd because there's certainly not a lot of them for him there, but i think he is using it as a prop. he's kind of cornered in to

having to be in new york and can't do a lot because he is on criminal trial. how do you see the response in your district and in the bronxs of the country? it could backfire and energize people to get angry that he is maneuvering sort of as a backdrop to him having to be in new york for his criminal trial. >> i think as far as we're concerned, donald trump is nothing more than a criminal suspect facing 91 felony counts, desperately searching for a self-pardon. it is obvious to us his priority is not the people of the bronx. it is self-pardon and self-preservation. i'm confident the people of the bronx are not going to buy this sneak world he is selling. his presidency was a catastrophe for the bronx. his mismanagement of the covid left a death toll of 7,000 in the bronx, greater than the combined total of pearl harbor and 9/11. instead of a rally, he should be

apologizing to the people of the bronx for the damage he's done. >> congressman, you wrote in the "daily news," "the bronx gives a bronx cheer to donald trump." the bronx is the bluest county in america. is trump so arrogant to believe he is the one republican who can compete in the bluest congressional district? in answering that question, one must be reminded of who trump is, a malignant narcissist with ideas of grandeur. he called himself greater than lincoln. if only lincoln had read "the art of the deal," he tells himself, the civil war would have been averted, just like october 7th or 9/11 or every human tragedy that ever transpired would have been prevented due to the omnipotence he gives himself. any megalomaniac who ranks himself above lincoln is too dangerous to be in the white

house. congressman, there has been some concern if you look at polling, and we'll use the caveats, that we're six months away from election day. the biden campaign believes voters will come home. but we have seen in polling anyway at this early stage some black voters, some latino voters, in numbers larger than we've seen in the past for a republican and numbers larger than we've seen for donald trump over a couple previous elections, at least saying they are open to the idea of voting for donald trump. how much stock do you put into those numbers? >> look, obviously, we have to be careful not to treat the latino community as a monolith, right? there are elements of the latino community that are open to voting for republicans. george w. bush won 40% of the vote in 2020. having said all that, i'm confident that the bronx is going to overwhelmingly reject donald trump. based on the polling data i've seen among likely voters in the bronx, donald trump is so unpopular as to be radioactive.

less popular than arsenic in the bronx. i'm confident the bronx will overwhelmingly support joe biden. >> i wonder where the crowd is going to come from. >> i want to pick up where willie is. when you look at numbers for african-americans, the economy has never been better. wages have never been better. unemployment has never been better. yet, still, to willie's point, there is a disconnect, particularly among black men. i can't figure that out. try to explain it as best you can. >> look, i sense men of all races, i see it among latino men, african-american men, white men, there is a bitter disillusionment with the system, a sense the system is failing them, and that transcends any particularly presidency. obviously, inflation has been a global problem. we have to tell the story of the biden administration's success. we've had the fastest recovery from covid of any major economy in the world. the president is addressing the cost of living. the bronx is among the highest

rates of dadiabetes. capping insulin is big. donald trump claims he is in favor of cutting taxes. he imposed the largest tax increase in new york city in recent history. the loss of salt deductibility cost our state $15 billion in revenue. new yorkers are paying more taxes and receiing less services because of donald trump. >> you say you need to make the argument better, democrats writ large, as to what the administration needs to, do and you started to there. are there a few points? it seems the biden team is proud but haven't broken through. the economy, you mentioned that. the republicans blocked this border bill. it seems immigration and migrants are a major issue in new york city, also resonates nationally. the crime has actually gone down in most places this year. how can they be sharpening their message to have that actually break through? polls suggest it's not. >> look, i feel like we have to

follow the tom suozzi model. instead of standing by passively and allowing the republicans to weaponize the issue of border security, he leaned in. he proactively owned it. he diffused the bomb, so to speak. that should be the template on the national stage. >> rev? >> don't we -- aren't we helped by looking at 2020? the polls also said that trump was having this bump up with black men, and it didn't happen. again, we're repeating the same mistake. yes, some black men will go there, as they did in '20, but he ended up getting just about what most republicans got. i think that we shouldn't get twisted with that. the other thing i want to ask you, congressman, it has been suggested to me, we don't know the makeup of his jury in this hush money trial. maybe there's some blacks and latinos in the jury.

maybe this thing tonight is really about his lawyer saying, we need to soften up some people in the jury that may look at you as racist or bigoted. we could be campaigning not for votes but to a jury. >> look, if donald trump didn't have a criminal trial in new york city, he would never be in the bronx. as far as i'm concerned, the only place in the bronx where donald trump has any place being is bronx criminal court. >> okay. let me just pop this story in. progressive candidates had a tough night in oregon's democratic primary on tuesday. the deep blue city of portland elected centrist democrats over their more progressive challengers in several key races. voters opted for a mainstream democrat, state representative, over her progressive rival, as the party seeks to take back a flipped seat in the midterms.

jayapal, the sister of the caucus chair, lost her congressional primary bid to organ state representative maxine dexter. district attorney mike schmidt lost his re-election bid to challenger nathan vasquez. the independent vasquez, a former republican, ran a tough on crime campaign that was critical of the portland area's progressive policies. joe, your thoughts? >> well, it's about time. it's about time. people of portland have been living in a hellscape the last four, five years. they've experimented with every whacked out progressive theory, including the legalization of hard drugs, which has led to a massive spike in drug overdoses. rev, as you've said, a lot of

these, as you say, woke, left-wing, latte liberals, especially in oregon, if you look what's happened in oregon, rev, they use the murder of george floyd to make the lives of the truly disadvantaged even more disadvantaged by talking about defunding the police, taking police officers out of some of the most dangerous parts of town, encouraging anarchy. i mean, the scenes out of portland, unbelievable. i have friends there who have been small business owners, no friend of donald trump. you know, just talk about the chaos of the city, how small business owners have fled, and portland has become a shell of itself because, in large part, because of these radical, radical policies. >> no, i think that the vote in

portland shows something, and that is, first of all, how do we define progressive? there's not progress to allow crime to go unaddressed. >> right. >> it's not progress for people to have their communities burned down. i mean, ritchie torres has had to wrestle with that. if you are woke, you wake up and get something done. woke doesn't mean you do anything and call it a movement. i think what is happening here is people are defining that progressive means we want to see change moving forward. not have a squaller in a situation that is not tenable for us to live in. we're not looking for worse conditions in the name of we're on the left. we're looking for better conditions no matter what you label it as. >> congressman, your thoughts on this? >> look, i mean, i've been a critic of defund the police. i said two years ago on msnbc that anyone who advocates for the abolition or defunding of

police is out of touch with reality and should not be taken seriously. it's worth noting that president biden rejected that movement decisively. like, he defuses to see the issue of public safety to the republicans. one of the greatest challenges to public safety is donald trump's supreme court, which has struck down gun safety laws in new york, which has led to more guns in the bronx, not less. more gun violence in the bronx, not less. we have to proactively own the issue of public safety. >> gene, i want to ask you, you know, here's an example of people bending over backwards for the far left, for the progressive left. joe biden has done that in certain instances. do you think anybody in the campaign realizes that this election is going to be won in the center and that the more he leans left, the more he alienates? we did a story earlier about nikki haley and her 20% of voters. those voters are not living on that far left. the biden campaign needs to realize there is a big chunk in the middle there. >> i think that's exactly where

the biden campaign is. i mean, i think the biden campaign leans more, in my opinion, leans more to the center. i think that's what joe biden does. i guess i'm not, donny, i'm not entirely down with the premise that biden has gone way far to the left. i think he's very mindful, pretty much constantly, of not going that far. he has to try to keep his party together, and there is a strong progressive wing of his party in congress and out in the country. he wants to address that, too. but i have a question for congressman torres, which is, aside from playing defense, what should president biden be doing?

i think you talked about border security and the economy and other issues on which republicans are attacking, and president biden has defense there, but how should he be playing offense? why should he be saying about the future he envisions that gives people hope and, frankly, a reason to go out and vote in november? >> look, he should tell the story of his record. i mean, president biden has had the most productively bipartisan presidency in recent history. when you consider the american rescue plan, which led to the strongest recovery of any major economy, the chips act, historic bipartisan investments in research, development in chips, gun safety legislation, veterans health care. i mean, he has a long list of achievements that delivered for

the american people and will determine the outcome of the election. that's a story that needs to be more powerfully told. newly released video shows seven female israeli soldiers being abducted by hamas terrorists during the october 7th attack. nbc news foreign correspondent raf sanchez has more. we have a warning to viewers. these images are extremely difficult to watch. >> reporter: disturbing footage from october 7th shows hamas terrorists inside israeli military base. seven female soldiers covered in blood and bruises are up against the wall. they're handcuffed and terrified. 18-year-old albag trying to speak while the women are receiving death threats. >> that's what you mean? >> i don't know, show us, show us. >> reporter: the gunman leering at the women, telling them they're beautiful. the u.n. has said hamas committed rape and sexual violence against its victims.

it is unclear if that happened in this case. on the video, you can hear gunfire as the women are abducted. of the seven, one was rescued and another found dead. the remaining five still in captiity 229 days later. including 19-year-old ariev. we spoke to her sister, sasha. what is it like to see your little sister in her snoopy pajamas, surrounded by men with guns? >> it is a scene from a movie. i'm begging for people to do something, you know, just get them out of there. >> reporter: a group representing hostage families releasing the footage, which they say was edited to take out the most gruesome scenes, trying to create pressure for a cease-fire deal. >> congressman, first to you on just reaction to the release of this video. i think a lot of people were thinking we have to release it.

we have to show the depravity, and perhaps it'd create reaction and movement when it comes to the hostages. your thoughts? >> look, it is important to see videos like those and remind ourselves there are hostages who are languishes in the terror tunnels in gaza. a number of those hostages are american citizens who should be household names. you know, for me, the october 7th was a crime so barbaric that it cannot be ignored. it cannot go unpunished. perpetrators like sinwar must be brought to justice, and hamas must be removed from power. we must never forget. >> joe. >> donny deutsch, this video was horrifying to watch. seeing it -- trying to see it through the eyes of family members, parents, loved ones. you are among the handful of americans who have actually seen the raw footage, over 45

minutes. >> yes, sir. >> of hamas' brutal raping of women, raping them to death, torturing them, shooting children in front of their parents, and then these terrorists excitingly calling people and bragging about what they have just done, talking about raping these women and trying to figure out who they can impregnate, and then parading them through the streets of gaza, butchered, battered, beaten, to cheering crowds. i want you to talk about this video, but i want you, sincehan who have actually seen some of the rawest footage of the worst slaughter of jews since the

holocaust, i want you to explain what you saw there and what you saw in yesterday's tape. >> yeah. i did see that 47 minutes of the footage of the attacks, and it was -- i thought it was the most horrific thing i'd ever seen, until i saw this 3 minutes and 10 seconds of footage of babies, young women, 19 years old, you know, in handcuffs, terrified. the look of terror. that little piece we showed you, if you caught it, the terror on their face as one of the terrorists says, these are the ones we can impregnate. one of the young women saying, i have friends in palestine, begging, their bloodied faces. these are college-aged women. i would love that to be shown, contrast that, with the women on campus who are protesting. who are saying "pro hamas." maybe they should be required viewing as they all go back in the fall and go back to their classes at columbia and penn.

maybe they should be required viewing for every woman activist, celebrity who has always come forward with all of the atrocities against women all over the world, africa, and have been stunningly silent here. it is -- i can't remember seeing anything more disturbing than these young women in this position and seeing the fear. once again, hearing those words of the terrorists. if i hear one more word about how israel is not treating civilians properly, when you did a whole segment yesterday and how, actually, the number of civilians to militants is lower than any in the history of war, and we see this, let's not forget, one side is humanity. one side is savages. >> depravity. >> i mean, again, lower ratio than the united states and its wars. lower ratio than the civilians killed when we went into mosul to wipe out isis. lower.

again, the difference, again, between israel and hamas is, hamas actually pits civilians between themselves and the terrorists. we've been saying that since october the 9th, that hamas did this because they're going to now hide behind civilians. watch civilians die as their human shields, and then watch the world turn on israel. congressman, you've also seen that footage, the horrific 47 minutes. i'm sure you were thinking about that footage. i'm not exactly sure why it's not been more widely disseminated, when i see professors at ivy league universities praising hamas, when i see these student groups, so-called student groups on

campuses that put out statements after the worst slaughter of jews since the holocaust, praising that slaughter on october the 7th. i'm curious your thoughts of what you saw yesterday and what you saw on those 47 minutes, and how blind some americans are to the face of evil that hamas represents. >> when i saw the raw footage a few months ago, i had trouble sleeping. it was a shock to the conscience. it makes me even more outraged because there's been a troubling pattern of downplaying and denying october 7th among activists on college campuses and in american politics. there have been elected officials who have dismissed the rape that hamas perpetrated against israeli women. so i find that october 7th denial is a modern mutation in the dna of anti-semitism, which is an ancient hatred. >> democratic congressman

ritchie torres of new york, thank you. we'll be watching as things play out in your district. donny deutsch, eugene robinson, thank you, both, as well for coming on this morning. we appreciate it. still ahead on "morning joe," the senate is set to vote again today on a bipartisan border security package that republicans killed earlier this year. democratic senator chris murphy, one of the lead negotiators of that bill, joins us next. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. k. ahhh! with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spray flonase sensimist daily for non-drowsy long lasting relief in a scent free, gentle mist. flonase all good. also, try our allergy headache and nighttime pills. hi, i'm david, and i lost 92 pounds on golo.

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live picture of the united states capitol, coming up on 7:30 in the morning here on the east coast. the senate will hold a vote on the bipartisan border security package republicans killed earlier this year. the move is expected to fail with some democrats and republicans who supported it last time likely to vote against the measure this time around. democrats are forcing the move to get republicans on the record on border security ahead of november's elections. republicans say democrats are playing politics. here is one of the lead negotiators for the bill, senator james lankford of oklahoma, who will be voting now against his own legislation. >> the bill is no longer a bill and just a prop. that's been my frustration. we wrote it to be a bill, to try to actually solve the problem. if this is not the solution, let's figure out what can be the

solution. don't bring up prop votes. >> joining us is democratic member of the foreign relations committee, senator murphy of connecticut. he, of course, one of the lead negotiators of the border security and foreign aid legislation. senator, good morning. it's great to see you. i'll let you address your colleague's criticism there, sen forlangford. senator lankford. republicans needed something on the border, they said, before approving aid for ukraine. you gave it to them, and then they turned their back on it. where are we now with this? >> listen, let's remember the history. republicans said, let's come together. republicans and democrats, do something about border security. they appointed james lankford, a hard-line, conservative senator on the border to be their negotiator. i was in the room with kiersten senator. lindsey graham was in the room for the negotiations. we produced the toughest, bipartisan border bill in a

generation. would have allowed the president to shut down the border when crossings get too high. it would have reformed the asylum system so it never takes ten years for somebody to have their asylum claim processed. it would have brought order to the southwest border. on the night we released the bill, we had probably about 30 republicans who considering voting for it. that night, that sunday night, donald trump and his maga movement lit the bill on fire. they told all the republicans in the senate, "we do not want the border fixed. we do not think we can win this election if the border is under control. we want the border a mess." all but four republicans in the senate listened to them. but border security is still an issue. it hasn't gone away. the voters are telling us, do something about it. we are bringing this bill back before the senate today in the hopes that republicans will join us. it is up to them as to whether they want to vote today to proceed to a debate. if they think the bill should be amended, as james lankford says, vote today to proceed to the bill, then we can have an open

amendment process to try to make it better. my fear is they'll do the same thing again. they'll choose trump's request to keep the border a mess over border security. we'll give them another chance today because the issue is so important to voters. >> it is incredibly rich to hear your republican colleagues now of accusing you ofs by calling when, in fact, you were trying to find the solution to a problem, and they decided they couldn't support it because donald trump told them not to so he could become president again. >> as you mentioned, there will be democrats that will vote against this bill today. frankly, that's evidence of the fact that it is a true compromise. that's what we've spent four months crafting. unprecedented border compromise that gives the president new authorities to control the border. mitch mcconnell said publicly

that donald trump told republicans to vote for nothing. it wasn't that this bill wasn't good enough. donald trump told republicans in the senate, "i want the border to remain a mess. i don't care about fixing the border." you know, it squares with reality. republicans have never passed border security legislation when they've been in charge. why? they can't imagine a world in which the border is fixed. they can't imagine a world in which they can't spend their weekends dressing up like border officers, going to the border, and complaining about the problem. we don't get elected to have press conferences and complain about problems. we get elected to solve problems. this bipartisan border bill is our chance to do that. i don't apologize for bringing this bill back up for another vote because it's a historic opportunity to solve the problem. instead of doing what republicans are addicted to, which is complaining about the problem. >> senator, i want to turn you now to israel. you, at times, have been

critical on how israel has conducted the war in gaza and prime minister netanyahu's refusal to endorse a two-state solution. we learned from speaker johnson he is going to be inviting the prime minister to address congress. apparently, majority leader schumer has signed off on that. i want to ask your reaction here. is this an appropriate moment for the prime minister to come to the united states and address the congress? >> listen, i'm always open to foreign leaders, especially when it comes to allies of the united states, coming to the united states to talk. i guess my question is whether this is in service of netanyahu's political ambitions, his desire to stay in power, or whether this is in service of strengthening the u.s./israel relationship. if netanyahu is coming to the united states to just chastise the democratic party and further embed himself with the republican party, i don't think that serves israel's interests, nor strengthens the u.s./israel

partnership. but if he is coming here to have an honest dialogue about how we bring peace to the region, how we wind down this war and move toward the palestinian state, then maybe that visit can be constructive. i've just seen nothing from netanyahu in the last several months that indicates his goal is peace. what i have seen is that netanyahu is guided by his desires to stay in power and avoid jail. that is not in the interest of thenitis the united states, nor in partnership of the u.s./israel relationship. >> i wanted to talk about the two-year anniversary of the uvalde massacre. i know that you have some thoughts on this, especially representing sandy hook in connecticut. and it being so long since that sort of -- that shooting really started a -- almost an epidemic, the beginning, the marker of gun

violence and school shootings across america, among a few others. donald trump at his latest rally at the nra, promising to roll back gun safety regulations that finally got through, and amid the lawsuits that families in uvalde are dealing with. given the police response that was questionable at best. your thoughts, sir, two years later? >> so, you know, any time you hit one of these one, two, or three-year marks, you know, those parents go through hell again. not just families in uvalde, when there are stories about the uvalde anniversary, it's the families in sandy hook reliving their nightmare. it is important to remember that after uvalde, we finally broke through. a month later, we passed the first gun safety bill in 30 years. it is also really important to know that since we passed that bill in 2022, in honor of those

kids killed, urban gun violence rates in the country have gone down by over 20%. that means there are literally thousands of people, mostly young men, who are alive today that wouldn't have been if we hadn't come together, republicans and democrats after uvalde, and passed gun safety legislation with joe biden's help. so as much as these anniversaries are moments to mourn, it is also a time to remember that it is possible, as we did after uvalde, to come together and pass legislation that's popular and that is impactful. laws that keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people and keep the most dangerous guns out of the hands of civilians, they do work. the 2022 gun bill and the decrease in violence we've seen since then is proof of that. >> democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut, thank you very much for coming on this morning. coming up on "morning joe," in a 2015 docu-series, new york

real estate heir robert durst appeared to confess to killing his friend, leading to his arrest and a life sentence behind bars. now, the filmmakers are out with a part two. uncovering new information while following durst's time in prison. the director of "the jinx" joins us next on "morning joe." a lot of new dry eye patients in my office tell me about their frequent dry eyes, which may point to dry eye disease. millions of americans were estimated to have it.

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"the jinx" is a six-part hbo series that details robert durst. >> the director promises tonight's final installment will answer questions people have been asking for decades. >> as "the jinx" aired, bob and i spoke after every episode. he was very nervous, and i thought to myself, he's going to run. >> told me, whatever you do, don't let robert durst get away. >> bob is going to flee the country, never to return. of course, that didn't happen. >> hello, this is a prepaid call from -- >> bob! >> that was part of the trailer for the hit hbo series entitled "the jinx: part two," following its groundbreaking first season. the show has returned to offer more insight into the enablers of the convicted murderer and

billionaire real estate heir robert durst, who, at the end of the last season, seemed to confess to murder on a hot mic. following his apparent confession, durst was convicted of murder in september of 2021 and died in prison a few months later at the age of 78. joining us now, emmy award winning director of "the jinx" andrew jereki. you're a fan, lemire. >> we loved it. he said at the end on the audio sample, a moment where we remember where we were when we watched it. tell us about part two. where does it pick up, and what stories are you trying to tell? >> strangely, bob durst was arrested the day before the final episode of "the jinx." >> oh, my gosh. >> that happened because we'd already shown the evidence to law enforcement two years earlier, once we had the evidence in hand. it wasn't really a coordinated

effort, but they knew the show was going to come out. they knew he had made plans to go to cuba. cuba doesn't have an extradition treaty with the u.s., so they were pretty sure this extremely rich suspect was going to disappear if they didn't arrest him. "the jinx: part two" picks up when that happens. he's not arrested in "the jinx: part one" because he had to watch it. that's what drove him to go on the run, which he does, and law enforcement goes and finds him. >> without giving away too much of part two, could he have succeeded as long as he did in covering up his involvement until you got him on tape, had he not had a lot of the neighbors, how involved, how would you say the enablers became almost like co-conspirators to what he got away with. >> yeah. when we were making part one, and even before that, i made a

film about robert durst. ryan gosling plays the part of robert durst. >> right. >> we would always say to ourselves, how do you kill three people over 30 years and get away with it? it takes a village. let's pull the camera back now in this part two and really try to understand who helps him, how they helped him, and why they helped him. it is not as simple. you see sort of in our current politics, we see what's going on with decent people out there helping other people do things that are maybe not so decent, they always say, well, you know, i'm a good person. i'm just here. i'm really providing the guardrails. you saw that with robert durst. if i thought he was capable of murder, i never would have helped him. in fact, they knew he was capable of murder. >> interesting. "the jinx: part two" focuses not only on his time in prison but the people complicit for

decades. >> sure. >> in helping him get away with murder. what inspired you to do part two, beyond the obsession people had with part one? >> i was watching, and my partner zach and i were texting while the preliminary witnesses were coming into court in los angeles. there is an unusual thing in l.a. if you are a prosecutor and you think that somebody is a witness and they may either die because they're in poor health or they might be under threat, you can bring them in early. so we had a sort of preview to a lot of people who had been a part of bob's life and were coming into court and kind of having to explain themselves. you know, as we were watching it, we were just texting each other. we said, you know, i didn't think i was going to say this, but doesn't this make you feel like we need to explore these people? that was how we started making part two. we sent people to court. we started, you know, filming what was happening. we had been collecting information on this story for 20

years, so it was natural, i think, to be interested in it. >> for sure. willie? >> andrew, good morning. you know, it is funny. for the first goaround a few years ago, you thought, okay, this was tied up, resolved. he confesses into the mirror, and that's that. when i heard about part two, i said, what else are we going to do with this? five minutes in, you're like, i'm hooked. i'm in. it's so good. i'm curious, having studied this man and covered him and spent so much time around him, how do you explain this effect he has on people? when you talk about the enablers, this woman, sue susie sent him $118,000 when he is on the run for murder. he doesn't come across in your series as particularly charming, so what is the hold he has on people? >> you know, when you have somebody like bob who is sort of a spell blinder, and we see this today in our politics, we see people who have an almost uncanny ability to control the

people around them, people who see themselves as ordinary, decent people, and then, somehow, get drawn into bad behavior, sometimes even murder. >> who could you be talking about? >> you know, it is disturbing, right? >> yeah. >> you see people like that. there is a tremendous amount of power in that personality. bob, you know, bob had that strong voice. he had a kind of hypnotic style about him. and the people around him, you know, it is easy to say, boy, he was very rich and, therefore, all these people got money from him. that's not actually the full story. the full story is they say, wel, he was very rich and all these people got money from him. that's not actually the full story. the full story is, as they do with trump, they like being where the action is. they talk about him having this energy, even if it's a bad energy, it's seductive. if you watch people climbing on the capitol january 6th and you

interview them later or law enforcement, they'll say i see the video. i know that was me. i don't even remember it. i don't know who that person was. i'm a soccer mom. i don't know how i got into that. it felt so timely. you had people around the country doing things they didn't think they were capable of. >> another reason to watch. the sixth and final episode of "the jinx" part two airs sunday night on hbo. andrew, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. fascinating. still ahead on "morning joe" we'll go through nikki haley's flip flop flip flop on donald trump despite months of criticizing him on the campaign trail as not qualified for the presidency.

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if he decides he's going to run, would that preclude any run you would possibly make yourself? >> i would not run if president trump ran. >> i don't put up with bullies. when you kick back, it hurts them more if you're wearing heels. i'm nikki haley and i'm running for president. times change and so has trump. he's gotten more unstable and unhinged. >> biden has been a catastrophe. i will be voting for trump.

>> first she would not run against him. then she did. >> mika, hold on. >> i have a list. >> i'm so shocked. i'm so shocked. we want to hear your list. >> it's a list. i'm checking it off. she wouldn't run against him. then she did. three months ago he was too unhinged to get a driver's license. now nikki haley will vote for donald trump for president of the united states. good morning, everybody. >> willie, this is one of those i'm shocked shocked. she's done this over and over again, right? >> yeah. >> and i will say -- let's say right off the top this happens in politics. i mean, you know, people say nasty things about other people when they're running against them for president. and then they -- they come together. i do think, though, everybody has to make a choice. in 2024, you know, nikki haley could have made the choice that

a lot of conservative republicans have made. i'll be talking to charlie sykes about that. that is, you know what, stay conservative. don't go along with authoritarian. don't go along with the guy who wants to amass more power in the white house and more power in washington, d.c., than any president in american history. so her choice is support an authoritarian and the guy who's promised he's going to be an authoritarian. i can go down the list. he's promising it every day. vote for me, donald trump says, and i'll be a menace to american democracy. of course, nikki haley basically hinted at that and called him a bully. said he was unstabled, unhinged, too unhinged to get a driver's license. now it's biden, he's a disaster. i love how they're talking about

biden's a disaster. they can't name anything. student loans, it's so horrible. they compare student loans with people trying to overthrow american democracy, not understanding how out of it and how stupid -- they'll call joe biden a communist with the dow over 40,000 and the economy stronger than it's ever been, not realizing how stupid they sound. everybody's got to choose. she has chosen. unlike a lot of good conservatives she's chosen the authoritarian leader. let her go with that. it's on her, not us. >> yeah, by the way, she could make the choice that so many of her own supporters have been making in these primaries by not voting for donald trump. not saying i love joe biden, but i'm not willing to take the country down the road of donald

trump again which we're seeing in primary after primary. she's getting 15%, 20% on a campaign she shut down a couple months ago. a campaign she ended by quoting margaret thatcher saying, never just follow the crowd. i'm never going to fall in line with donald trump. now here she is in a move that, as you say, joe, seemed inevitable to most people. she called him unhinged several times. he used a birther attack on her. he went after her husband who is deployed in the united states military oversea, asking where's the husband while he was defending the country around the world. none of that seems to matter. go back to ted cruz and marco rubio. we've had this conversation a thousand times. it doesn't matter. take out the personal stuff, as you point out, we're not talking joe biden and john mccain, joe

biden or george bush, we're talking about a guy who has promised to undermine this country. >> she could have waited perhaps for a moment to come her way with all the different dynamics in this election, you never know. she's chosen to go along with trump. we have the host of "way too early" jonathan lemire, the president of the national action network and host of "politics nation" reverend al sharpton, nbc news national affairs analyst john howman, former white house director of communications jennifer palme and msnbc contributor and author of "how the right lost its mind" charlie sykes. here we are and here is more of what nikki haley said yesterday

in her first public appearance since exiting the race in march. >> i put my priorities on a president who's going to have the backs of our allies and hold our enemies to account, who would secure the border, no more excuses. a president who would support capitalism and freedom. a president who understands we need less debt, not more debt. trump has not been perfect on these policies. i have made that clear many, many times, but biden had been a catastrophe. so i will be voting for trump. having said that, i stand by what i said in my suspension speech. trump would be smart to reach

out to the millions of people who voted for me and continue to support me and not assume that they're just going to be with him. i genuinely hope he does that. >> you know, i -- that is one of the most remarkably un-morred from facts -- it is mind boggling that somebody who actually claims to know anything about policy would say what she just said. i'm not shocked she's cynical. she's been cynical her entire political career. doesn't shock me she went back to trump, but you're going to have to do better than that, nikki haley. hold our enemies to account? hold our enemies to account? john, where do we begin when we

talk about how he lavishing praise on vladimir putin. trump lavishes praise on president xi. sends, quote, love letters to kim jong-un. he loves our enemies. he loves the tyrants that hate the united states of america to their very core. what is she talking about? she's so -- joe biden has hemmed in china in the pacific. we've seen it. we've talked about it. it's -- it's a part of the historical record. he's leading the effort to push back vladimir putin where donald trump says basically, turn it over. i'm going to end this war in day one and called putin brilliant for what he did. yes, he said he has a love affair with kim jong-un, the most ruthless tyrant who wants to nuke the west coast of the

united states of america. hold our enemies to account? that is is completely fact free garbage. then you go to supporting capitalism. let me say again, the dow is over 40,000 points. ritchie sumack had the economy in britain that we had here, he would be in much better shape on july 4th when the next election is called. we have and economists will say this, we have the strongest economy in the world. there's not a close second. we're the envy of the world. somehow donald trump is going to do better than that throwing up tariffs and protective journals that even "the wall street journal" calls a nightmare. again, because i got the

congress -- because i was worried about the national debt, she says, joe biden's been a disaster on the national debt. so she's going to support donald trump? donald trump in four years raised america's national debt more, just him, 45, than presidents 1 through 44 did over 240 years. i mean, think about this. think about just how wrong -- we were supposed to play back-to-back clips. we were supposed to play those clips and then what she said in the campaign. i said this is how people spread disinformation and lies and get away with it where you just

let -- keep going. sometimes you need to stop things and just explain how big her lies were there. she lied about the economy. she lied about debt. just look at the numbers. she lied through her teeth about debt and she lied about donald trump holding our enemies accountable when he praises our enemies and sends love letters to them and talks about how brilliant they are because they can hold down millions and millions of their countrymen and women. i'll let you go from there. i'm just seriously -- i'm not shocked at the endorsement. i'm shocked that she would sink so low so fast and just lie about the facts as badly as she did. >> good morning, joe. how are you? >> i'm doing well. how are you doing? >> the rudy coffee is flowing where you are. >> if you're not shocked by that, john, i know it's very

funny -- if you're not shocked by her lying through her teeth. she could have picked three or four other issues. she could have been talked about afghanistan. she could have talked about inflation. she could have talked about the cost of gasoline, but she picks these three things where she actually picks drop on policy. his weakest points. then lied to the american people about it. yeah, i'm not laughing about that. >> i'm not laughing either. i was just saying you're fired up. that's my only comment about the rudy coffee. >> i'm very happy and calm. >> good. look, i mean, to just say a couple quick things. one, of course there's a history in presidential primaries of tough primaries, opponents saying tough things about each other on both sides of the aisle. there's also a little further over garden variety political cynicism where people engage in politics and we say some things

that maybe would be hard to walk back if we held people to their words. to joe's point, this is a different category of thing here. i mean, it's -- as you know, i was out there. i listened to her as she got tougher and tougher on trump from iowa to new hampshire, south carolina. i listened to her get closer and closer to the edge. she wasn't making critiques of trump on policy. she was saying things like i've been in the room with donald trump and vladimir putin, you know, and coming very close to saying he's not fit, competent to serve. you made the point earlier, mika, about the driver's license, he shouldn't get a driver's license. she went right up to the edge of making the critiques that never trump, that progressive democrats have made for those -- those are existential arguments.

they're not about policy. it's about this man is not fit to serve. she was right in that zone and then to retreat to policy is so cynical and i think what we learned about her, the most cynical, negative people that nikki haley has always said, she's ambition incarnate. you can't believe a word out of her mouth. there are people who are saying you'll be misogynist about this. you don't hold men to -- some of us bend over backwards in this winter period to say maybe she's finally come to jesus and she won't go back. she'll stake her claim and say in theory if trump loses, where she can say, i was right all along. i want to say here, a, we should

never believe a word she says ever again. b, she must not be allowed by republican voters who continue to go to the polls, she's still getting 20% of the vote. this month 20% of republicans are still voting for her. they must not let her in november -- >> those are people choosing against trump. >> yes. let me stay with that. what they can't let her do if trump loses in november say, oh, i told you so. she forfeits the right to say i told you so, i was always against donald trump. she's now back on the trump train. there has to be accountability for that politically going forward. >> willie? >> as john says, it was the case she was making at the end of the primary season. in new hampshire we saw it where she said don't come crying to me when donald trump loses in november. i beat joe biden.

he doesn't. that was the core of her argument. jen, the biden campaign weighed in yesterday writes, quote, nothing has changed for the million of republicans voters who continue to cast their ballots against trump and care deeply about the future of our democracy. the biden team shared a video montage on social media of nikki haley primary voters who say they would choose biden over trump in november. this is a section of vote, jen, that the biden campaign is courting, the 20% john was talking about in places like pennsylvania, indiana, nebraska. for his part, donald trump said during the campaign, he didn't want nikki haley voters to vote for him. they would be banished from the maga camp for the sin of supporting nikki haley. >> there's forever banned t-shirts that nikki haley gave to her donors. this is going to be a big

priority for the biden campaign. there's the group republicans against trump, the sarah longwell group. that universe of voters is bigger than it's ever been. there was a universe of republicans against trump in 2016 and 2020 and it's bigger in 2024 who biden has open to him to reach out to to win their support. you're not going to get all 20% of them. even if you get a few percent of that 20%, we're talking a tight election and that can be the margin of victory. the thing that -- just watching -- when i heard the nikki haley video, i thought it was from the campaign. i thought it was from the primary. she was talking about someone who would stand with our allies and talking about debt. she's not even intellectually

consistent in the moment when she's saying she's going to vote for trump. it lifts up trump's message that, none of this matters, it's all just a game. my new trump sarah matthews, former trump staffer, alyssa farrah griffin, they're saying, see, this is what politicians do. it's not what politicians do. it's what nikki haley's doing. it's what republicans that prop up trump do. in the end it helps him to say none of these people are on the level. we'll sneak in a short break. when we come back, a full list of when nikki haley bashed trump on the campaign trail, only to endorse him yesterday. that's straight ahead in 90 seconds. 0 seconds. replace. ♪ so this is pickleball? it's basically tennis for babies, but for adults. it should be called wiffle tennis.

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times change and so has trump. he's gotten more unable and unhinged. if you mock the service of a combat veteran, you don't deserve a driver's license, let alone being president of the united states. we've seen him get confused. he was confused about me having something to do with keeping security away from the capitol. he was confused when he said biden was going to run us into world war ii. he's not qualified to be president of the united states. it's not normal to insult military heros and veterans. he was thin-skinned and easily

distracted. it's not normal to spend $15 million in campaign contributions on person court cases. there is no way the american people are going to vote for a convicted criminal. it's not normal to threaten people who back your opponent. he went and was trying to buddy up with putin. every time he was in the same room with him, he got weak in the knees. it's not normal to call on russia to invade nato countries. donald trump has done all of that, and more in just the past month. >> makes so much sense. jonathan lemire, what do you think is behind this decision? is she running to be vp? could that be being cooked up? what's the opportunity for the biden campaign? >> just about everything she said there we don't need to fact check. she was right. the timing of this is puzzling. nobody made her endorse donald trump yesterday. no one made her say she would vote for him.

there has been speculation that she could be a vp pick or back in the trump cabinet, although trump said she's not in the running. >> we can't believe anything he says. >> it's hard to say. in that same speech yesterday she delivered a full-throated defense of ukraine saying the united states needs to give ukraine whatever it takes, give them every weapon they need in order to defeat vladimir putin in russia. then in her next breath said i'm going to vote for donald trump who will not do that. he's siding with putin time and time again. charlie sykes, rank hypocrisy at the highest level and deeply disappointing to many republicans who thought nikki haley would hold strong. how much do you think this matters? there are people still voting for her. are they going to take cues from her and say, i wasn't for nikki haley, i was against donald trump and i'll stay that way?

>> i don't think it's going to have that much of an effect. she's saying she hopes that donald trump reaches out to her voters. donald trump did nothing for her. nikki haley in many ways this is peak nikki haley. she's a very cheap date for donald trump. this is a choice that she made. it's a very different choice than liz cheney made, adam kinzinger made, chris christie made, mike pence made. i don't think it makes that much of a difference. it's so revealing front and center about her character. i wrote "the unbearable likeness of nikki haley." she's gone on and off the trump train. to joe's point, how do you make a full throated defense of ukraine and turn around and endorse someone who made it clear he'll pull out of nato and abandon ukraine, who invited

vladimir putin to invade europe. it makes no sense except in the context of nikki haley's unbridled -- one footnote here. she's now affiliated with the hudson institute, one of the conservative think tanks out there. the moment she signed up for that it was inevitable she was going to endorse donald trump because it's what the republican donor class demands. there's no way the hudson institute would embrace her unless she's going to basically bow the knee. i don't know that this changes the dynamics of the race at all. frankly i don't know that it positions her particularly well. she's not going to be the vice president. i think that's absurd. i don't know that the maga world will ever welcome her back in because she is -- in their minds she was disloyal.

her cynicism has led her to a position where she'll find herself very lonely very soon. >> she's put herself in no man's land. that's where she is politically. people that are voting for her are voting against donald trump, not for her. they're not going to say, oh, nikki haley and donald trump? sure. when you're voting against donald trump months after he has nobody running against him, you're not going to vote for him in the general election. i just -- rev, i want to go back and look at these words. i'm comparing this -- we need to vote for somebody who will hold our enemies to account she says, of donald trump. in the campaign she said, donald trump buddied up to vladimir putin and donald trump calls on vladimir putin to invade nato countries, her words. just like she called him too

unhinged to have a driver's license. said no one shoulder be president who mocked the service of combat veterans, which donald trump has done and did during this campaign and nikki haley said that means he's unqualified. talked about how confused he was all the time, how thin-skinned he was when -- and confused when he was talking to other world lead. not qualified to have a driver's license, so on and so on. it's just like she is so trumpian she thinks she can lie to the american people about donald trump's record on the debt. she thinks she can lie to the american people about donald trump and how he treats our allies when she ran against how he treats our allies. i just -- at the end of the day i agree. i don't think it has any effect. what do you think? >> i definitely think it has no

effect. in fact, he has negative effect on nikki haley's -- whatever she intends to do in the future. the people in double digits, some over 20%, they voted for nikki haley even after she withdrew from the race showed there are a body of republicans that want to get out of this donald trump cult. and she could have been a leader, if not the major leader in that, because sooner or later people are going to leave this cult in the republican party and redeem what conservative america is about. she just took herself out of the running. put herself on the list of long cynical, political operatives that will do whatever it takes and go whatever way the wind blows. she's only cheapened herself. she won't be embraced by trump or the maga crowd and she's eliminated herself from any

serious minded conservative republicans that wants to redeem the party sooner or later and get past this trump era. i think she only announced she was not someone that could rise to the occasion of standing up for something. >> well, you know, what's so interesting she set herself up perfectly politically for running four years from now and could have very easily said, i warned you. i told you and you voted for him anyway and he lost again for the eighth year in a row. he lost. let's try something else different in '28. i told you he would do this. i won't -- she could have done all that, but she just -- >> she had that going. >> -- couldn't be politically disciplined enough to not immediately see just the short-term game. charlie sykes instead of doing

what ronald reagan did, which was run against gerald ford and set himself up as the alternative four years later after ford lost. now she's in this no man's land, no woman's land, no politician's land where the maga people will never support her and the people that were voting for her at the end will say there goes nikki haley again. >> yep. >> nikki haley is to ronald reagan. she was never going to do this. it was her calculation that there's no future in the republican party for someone who does not kiss the ring of donald trump. she's making the calculation that trump is forever. even after 2024, if she doesn't get on board, she will be considered disloyal. then again, it's about her personal ambition. it's not about the country. this is why it's important to highlight this contrast between what she says and knows about

donald trump and the threat that he poses to our allies, to the country, to the constitutional order, and yet her willingness to say yes, but my personal ambition trumps all that. that's more important to me. i'm going to put my ambition ahead of country. i'm going to put party ahead of country. again, it feels so peak nikki haley. this is what she has done over and over and over again. remember when chris christie dropped out and he was caught on the open mic saying she's not up for it, she's going to get crushed? he was right she wasn't up for it. nikki haley was never the one who we were waiting for who is going to take the principle stand against donald trump, which makes yesterday's announcement absolutely not surprising at all and we're probably done talking about nikki haley for a very long time, aren't we? coming up, the u.s. is not in a recession, but most

americans don't seem to know that. steve ratner tackles that disconnect with a new set of charts, next on "morning joe." ♪ we go it alone ♪ coming too? to show you how it's done. ♪♪ for a great low rate, go with the general. the future is not just going to happen. you have to make it. and if you want a successful business, all it takes is an idea, and now becomes the future where you grew a dream into a reality. the all new godaddy airo. put your business online in minutes with the power of ai.

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president biden canceled another $7.7 billion in student loans. [ cheers and applause ] >> biden's getting on the good side of young voters. he's canceled student debt, loosening marijuana laws and then he's going to ruin it by banning tiktok. >> the rnc headquarters was placed on lockdown after two viles of blood was sent to the building.

rudy giuliani was like, good, my lunch is here. new polling finds most americans believe the country is in a recession. it's not. in the latest harris poll, 56% of adults expressed the belief we're in a recession. that includes 67% of republicans, 49% democrats and 53% of independents. although inflation has fallen sharply over the past year, 72% of adults still think that is increasing. joining us now former treasury official steve ratner to help us separate perception from the facts of this economy. steve, good morning. we can start with that idea of the united states being in a recession right now, which is plainly is not. we can talk about why so many americans believe that. let's talk about your chart and where we really are. >> it's quite an extraordinary poll. we've seen polls that show

americans having a negative view on the economy. i've never seen one like this. these are the numbers you mentioned. more than half of americans think we're in a recession. it's divided somewhat by party. more republicans, 67%, feel it than democrats, but democrats, 49%, feel we've seen this divergence before. it flips with every election. the reality is the economy has been growing since covid, except for a small downturn here. under joe biden it's grown by 2.8% a year, which is slightly faster than it was growing under trump even before covid hit. so you can see every quarter we've had reasonably strong economic growth. why people feel this is really quite a mystery. >> steve, what about this other sort of -- low unemployment, surging stock market and yet dot

dot dot. how do you explain it? >> 50% of americans think unemployment is at a 50-year high. 50% think it's at a 50-year high. unemployment is at a 50-year low. it's amazing. unemployment is below 4%. it's been below 4% for months and months now. it is -- it's just extraordinary that people think we're at a 50-year high. you can see some of the highs over here. another issue is stocks. half of americans think stocks are down this year. stocks are up 11% this year. they're up 45% since joe biden took office. complete disconnect in people's minds between perception and reality of the stock market. >> well it's how -- there are people who are legitimately feeling the pinch still. yet overall americans have a very negative perception of biden's economy. is that fair? what do you see? >> what's interesting -- we

looked at these numbers before. if you ask people how their own finances are, about 75% think they're okay. that really goes all the way back to 2018. pretty consistently. what's happened in the last number of years, not just under biden, but it started back in about 2019 or thereabouts, the perception of how local economies are doing has deteriorated and the perception of the national economy has deteriorated. people have created this dichotomy between the national economy, local economy and themselves. what's interesting is -- these are from other polls that have come out. what's interesting is the way divergence between sentiment and approval has occurred. people's sentiment about the economy has been trending up. we had one bad number the other day, we'll have to see if it's an aberration. the general trend has been

improving sentiment. biden's approval ratings have been trending down. there are other things going on, particularly the war in gaza and so on, but there's a spread between how people feel about the economy to some degree and how they feel about biden. coming up, joe mentioned the major political development unfolding in the uk. new elections that could upend the balance of power there. we'll go to london for the latest next on "morning joe." r. sleep number does that. now, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add any base. shop now at sleepnumber.com

♪♪ the united kingdom will hold its general election on july 4th. the prime minister made the announcement from downing street

yesterday. sunak had until december to call on an election that could have happened in january next year. sunak's party has seen its support dwindle. the center left labor party is strongly favored in the next election, with polls show it about 20 points ahead. joining us now from london is josh lederman, he's outside parliament. josh, what was behind the surprise news? >> reporter: well, mika, the smart money had been the prime minister would wait until later in the fall to hold elections, in part to give himself more time to try to turn around his party's political fortunes. he appears to have made the calculation that now is as good a time as in, that it wasn't going to get better. recent positive economic news with inflation plummeting down

to 2.3%, down from a high of about 11%, made this a good time to kick start this campaign. as of this morning, this six-week campaign has started with a bang, both sunak and the labor leader are hitting the campaign trail today. sunak will be in scotland. a lot of the themes of the campaign mirror some of the frustrations we're hearing from voters in the united states as well. a lot of frustration with the economy, frustration with the failures of the government to stop immigration and to secure the borders with sunak campaigning on the beginning of his newly enacted plan to send migrants, asylum seekers to the uk on flights to rwanda saying the flights will start after the july 4st election.

the labor party has promised to scrap that plan entirely, if elected. interestingly, mika, from the labor leader we're not hearing big, bold campaign promises, exactly what he's going to do. his message seems to be he's the one that's going to bring stability to british politics after a tumultuous period under 14 years of conservative leadership, where we had a rotating cast of prime ministers. so the labor leader campaigning as the person who will bring order and stability to that. that's giving an opening to the conservatives to say, look, the labor party doesn't even have a plan at this point. they're unprepared to lead this government. one person who will not be

participating in this election is nigel faraj the far right leader and champion of brexit who was expected to campaign as part of the reform party. he announced he's not going to do that. instead he's going to focus on his bigger priority to help donald trump get elected in the united states. joe? >> thank you so much, josh lederman. let's bring in associate editor of the "washington post," eugen being called early. why you think he went ahead and called it early when he and the torreys are deeply unpopular. >> i think sunak decided he wanted july 4th to be his personal independence day. he wanted to be free of being

prime minister. i think he will be after that. i took a look last night at the polling in britain. it is dismal. something like 23 points is the poll average. predictions are a huge labour majority. keir starmer is following the rules. he isn't coming out with proposals that are firm and a plan for this or that because he figures he doesn't have to. people are just tired of the

torreys after all this time. from london to paris. that's where we find andrew ross tsirkin who sat down with french president macron and brings us the takeaways from that interview. it's straight ahead on "morning joe."

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coming up, new polling from seven different battleground states, each critical to the outcome of the presidential race. we will break down the results next on "morning joe."

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's the top of the hour. look at that beautiful shot of

new york city. we are starting the fourth hour. lemire, you ready? >> always. >> can we do it? reverend al still with us. joining us now, we have molly john best. she's an msnbc political analyst. co-founder and ceo of all in together, lauren leader is with us. and publisher of "the cook political report," amy walter is with us. a lot to talk about. amy, start with the "cool political report" out with a new look at the 2024 race and the issues that matter most to likely swing state voters. in a new survey out today, donald trump has a lead within the margin of error in arizona, georgia, michigan, nevada, north carolina, and pennsylvania. he and president joe biden are tied in wisconsin.

swing state voters say the economy is the issue that matters most to them. their own cost of living being the best way to measure it. they say they are more worried about biden setting economic policy than about trump setting abortion policy and biden's age is more of a concern than trump's temperament and legal issues. break this down for us. >> sure. thanks for having me. we looked at voters in all those important battleground states, because we know those are the states that are going to decide the next president. sometimes politics is complicated, and sometimes it's not. in this case, it's that it's not all that complicated. voters really are frustrated and really disillusioned about the cost of things. it's driving how they think about politics right now. it's the lens through which they

are viewing this election. that helps donald trump a lot. not just because they think that donald trump would be better on the economy, but they really do believe that the president himself has more power over controlling inflation and prices than a president actually does have. almost 60% of voters in this poll think that president biden himself does have control over how much stuff costs. they don't think he is doing a particularly good job of it. when we asked how they think donald trump would handle issues like controlling the cost of living, 56% said they think he would do a good job. only 40% said that of biden. that's where this race sits right now. it's one thing -- we have seen in the past that candidates who are seen as maybe not as strong on the economy ultimately win an election, like, say, barack obama in 2012. to be losing by this margin,

that is unsustainable at this point for an incumbent. >> these numbers are eyebrow raising. it's pretty close. nevada is nine points. most of them -- but the economy. that's what this election is about. it looks like for this poll that president biden would be in trouble, even though his team would argue, look at the job we have done since covid. look how we repaired things. how much is trump amnesia, where people deluded themselves where the economy was better than it was? how much is simply inflation, which just angers people? there's not much a president can do. >> people hate inflation. the idea something you bought is now significantly higher is just -- voters hate that. i'm curious just with the methodology, if i can throw it to amy here -- what is the methodology on this poll? how was it conducted? can you tell us more?

>> yeah, sure. this was conducted by two polling firms. gs strategies and bsg. one a republican firm, another a democratic firm. it was online panel and web to tech. you can get amany vo as many vo your sample that you get through the web and through text. if you look through the cross tabs, the thing you notice is how many undecideds are sitting there that are potentially still able to be won over by biden. the question is, what are the issues that are going to motivate them? as you pointed out, trump is ahead in every single one of these states. the one that stands out most is

nevada, where he is close to 50% there. in the other states, he is basically hitting his 2020 levels. to me, it's not as much as that trump is surging, it's that biden is really sagging. the question is, can he get those voters back? if so, i don't know if he gets them back simply on talking about trump as an existential threat. he has to talk about the ways in which donald trump's answer to the economy is not going to solve the problems. >> another takeaway from the polling of the swing state voters, which is where the election is won or lost, lauren, the voters are more worried about biden setting economic policy than about trump setting abortion policy. if anyone thinks that it can't get worse, it can. the birth control, plan b, all these things are on the line.

>> yeah. i would love to see how this breaks down on gender lines. women are more likely to turn out in elections. sometimes this is one place where, especially smaller polls, get a little off is that it discounts what the actual turnout factor is. it's not to discount this. on the undecided voters, there have been focus groups, a lot of these looking at what's happening with the undecideds. when you look at arizona, there's some interesting dynamics relative to the ballot initiative there, which has the potential to change the turnout factor. we know that democrats benefit from turnout. there's no question, biden cannot seem to get any wind under his sails on the economy. no one believes him. we heard steve earlier, the basic wrong information that people have about the state of the economy. it's really remarkable. i think biden came to this late. he is trying to campaign on it now. but they haven't talked about this the last few years.

americans think republicans, no matter who they are, are better on the economy, which is factually wrong. >> joe. >> it's a great question. when 50% of americans think unemployment is at record highs and unemployment is at 50-year lows, whether they think we're in a recession and our economy is actually the strongest in the world, you could throw your hands up or figure out how to get the message across. that's what they have to do. amy, i'm curious -- i would love to get your insight on the issue of abortion in this sense. before the '22 election, abortion was polling at 4%, 5%, and they would ridicule joe biden for talking about abortion and democracy. everybody -- my god, the old man, he doesn't understand. i was on the phone -- lauren

leader said his name. i was on the phone with mark and he called me. what's going on with this abortion number? it's at 33% in some of the exit polls. it's the most important issue. we were trying to figure out, were they just polling democrats? what was it? it ended up being the defining issue of that race, the defining issue of the wisconsin supreme court case. we could go through all of it. i'm trying to figure out the disconnect. six months out, three months out, one month out, people are like, abortion doesn't matter. when they go to the polls, it seems to be the top issue. >> i think these are great questions you are raising about this. it's why this is a nice starting point for us. it's not the ending point.

i think one reaction to what happened in 2022 is that the people who were the most motivated to actually go out and vote are the kinds of people that traditionally now are voting for democrats. in fact, i think lauren asked about how women are breaking down on this question about abortion versus the economy. the one group of voters that said that donald trump's position on the abortion was more important to them -- or was more worrisome to them than biden on the economy were college-educated women. that group of voters clearly influential in 2022. i think for the team biden, what they need is for other voters besides that group. voters who didn't show up in 2022 but plan on showing up in 2024, how are they viewing that issue? that's the group that we're going to be watching very, very closely, especially the closer we get to this election. the other thing that was to me

eye-opening about the poll is that it's not that voters don't think donald trump will be more restrictive on the issue. majorities thought that if donald trump is president, there would be the potential for a national ban on abortion. the stakes are in front of them. that's the question, do they start to come in? >> amy, tell me about this -- we heard time and again that it's black men, hispanic men, young voters wandering away from biden in worrisome numbers. based on the polling that you see, based on the swing state polls, are you of the opinion that if biden takes care of the base, brings these base voters back home with him, that he will likely win this election? >> i think he needs to bring those folks back to get back to

even. then he needs to do better with independent voters, especially independent women voters. we will dig into those numbers in the coming weeks. those are the folks right now who seem to be the most sort of either undecided or curious about donald trump that they need further examination. >> rev, we have talked about joe biden getting tepid support in the black community. i'm curious your thoughts. looking at the swing state polls but also looking at how they seem to be focusing, the biden campaign, more on black voters, hispanic voters, younger votes. i'm curious, what do they need to do over the next two, three,

four months to firm up that support before we have the final dash in the fall? >> i think they are beginning to do it. it's late, but they're beginning do it. they must start focusing some of their messaging right to black voters, young black voters, young black men. you and i both know music well. there's a difference in a pop station and an r&b station and hip hop station. they have been playing broad politics when they should also deal with various identifiable issues for different constituencies. talk to black men about how high unemployment was for black men when trump was in as compared to now where it's a record low among black unemployment in the last 50 years. talk about criminal justice. donald trump's position on the central park five, which was wrong. and joe biden has never -- joe

biden signed the george floyd justice in policing act as an executive order when everybody with donald trump voted against his it as legislation. they must show the contrast directly -- latino community, black community. don't expect me to understand a pop hit if you are not playing it on my station. i want to hear james brown. i want to hear somebody i know. i don't know some of the other acts. i think they're beginning to do that when i saw this latest commercial they dropped geared toward the black voter. >> amy walter, thank you very much for coming on this morning. >> you are welcome. the viva tech conference kicked off where the leaders of tech firms are attempting to sell european regulators on the virtues of artificial intelligence. let's bring in live from paris, the co-anchor of "quack box"

andrew ross sosorkin. you sat down for an interview with president macron. we will play a sound bite of that interview in a moment. first, andrew, what were your overall takeaways from the interview? >> reporter: we talked about a lot of things, including geopolitics, jobs, the idea of wealth and trying to create billionaires in paris. the criticism of wealth and inequality in this country. we got into a discussion about gaza. we got into a discussion about china and the relationship between the u.s. and china, which is an issue that joe and i have talked about before. i think the issue we will try to show a clip of has to do with how he is thinking about what would happen if a former president trump becomes the president again and how that might relate, for example, to the paris climate accord.

>> let's take a look at that right now. >> i don't speculate on any elections, especially the u.s. election. i don't want to make impossible scenario. what's important is once u.s. decide, we consolidate the rest of the club. this is the first time we have turkey, russia, and others to stick to the agreement and sign and ratify. it would be a big mistake for u.s., for the planet, but big mistake for u.s., if the u.s. decides to leave paris agreement, it will be a perfect occasion offered to not to do their fair share. >> you worked with him before. what did you learn about working with him? do you think there would be a way to persuade him to remain in it? >> sometimes i succeed. sometimes i fail.

i'm very humble. i do my best. i will do my best to convince him if he were president. i do my best to convince when i think it's a good idea as well president biden. i think the u.s. as a first economy of this world has a very important role to play to decarbonize. >> i'm curious, andrew. that's, of course, the president on donald trump. what about the united states in general? i have noted some -- a sense of defiance against the united states just believing that the u.s. is stepping on allies. obviously, still upset about the australian nuclear sub deal. what deeper sense do you get about his concerns about america's strength economically?

>> reporter: it is so clear that one of the things that he is pursuing is sovereignty. he wants the european union to be independent. i think because he is worried, frankly, about how much support he is going to be able to get from the u.s. you see that manifesting itself in the war against russia with ukraine. i think he is deeply concerned about what that relationship with the u.s. looks like. he is also, by the way -- we were talking about china. he is deeply concerned about the way we, the u.s., speaks about china as an enemy in some cases and the idea that ultimately, we are going to have to have some kind of relationship to get things done, including around climate change and the like. i think there's this idea that seems to pervade all he talks about of trying to be sovereign, of being independent, because he is not sure whether the support is going to come from allies in the future the way it had in the past. >> andrew ross sorkin in paris.

i know you have the interview with macron, but you know that taylor left. you missed that. >> reporter: i know she left. we are 54 days ahead of the olympics, i should say. by the way, this city is teaming with people. i must say, they are preparing. you can see preparations ongoing. i should mention one of the things that president macron is trying to do, which is very interesting if he gets there, but it's very hard. he is trying to call for what's called an olympic truce between ukraine and russia during the olympics. this goes back to -- it goes back to the ancient greek days. putin is not going along with it. he got president xi of china to publically declare he would like a truce during the olympics. it would only be temporary. we will watch that story play out geopolitically as we get closer to the olympics. >> andrew, thank you very much.

you can see his extended interview with president macron tonight at 8:00 eastern on cnbc. to button this up, how does trump and -- i think molly brought it up at the beginning of this hour, the fourth hour. how does it play into what the biden campaign -- even the biden administration needs to do moving forward? it seems to me it's real. it's backed up by news networks that also have it. try to say that nicely. >> biden found this to be deeply frustrating, to put it mildly. they feel like americans don't want to think about covid, how hard things were in 2020 and then 2021. 2020, of course, biden camp would make the case, that's where trump let the nation down, his response to the pandemic and civil rights protests.

in 2021, americans don't want to think about that year either. a very challenging year. they are not thinking about the good things the biden team did to get us out of the pandemic. that's a big part of it. there's a sense of returning to what we talked about, this idea of inflation. that's the one metric. even though so many other economic metrics are better. we go over them nearly every day on the show. the stubbornly high inflation, joe, is what voters are upset about. that's something they have placed blame on biden for, fairly or not. they are having real trouble shedding it. >> you know, rev, not to suggest you and i are old. but to let you know how new the dynamic of inflation is to american politics, you and i are the only people that really have clear memories of interest rates at 20%, 21%.

i was young but i remember my parents struggling through that. getting our first house and our apartment and thinking that 7%, 8% was a good mortgage rate. every voter -- so many voters that are going to the ballot box this year have been used to 2%, 3% interest rates on homes and 0% interest rates and 0% down on cars. that's radically changed. in large part, because all of the massive spending, more by donald trump than even joe biden. >> i think you raise a great point. when i talk to my daughters, the world they live in is unlike -- what are you talking about? we're doing great. they are like, but this, that, the other. the thing the biden campaign has to do, joe, is they have to realize that they are not in a

professional boxing match. they are in a street fight. donald trump is a street fighter. you don't come into the ring with him with gloves, looking for a referee to stop every three minutes, rest. no. this is a street fight. you come in with a broke bottle and an -- it's that kind of battle. he doesn't understand anything else. you need to graphically show, not in a gentleman way, him saying, use bleach and show the lines of people at food chains trying to line up to get free food like they had to do at my headquarters. be graphic about it. show the people protesting around george floyd and him standing in front of the church with a bible that we clearly -- >> upside down. >> you need to come and street fight. street fighting, you can beat him. >> by the way, i would show the riots.

republicans love to talk about that, i would show the riots breaking out in american cities, not just on january 6 but in 2020. the riots republicans talk about, donald trump actually was a tough guy, he always loved talking, we will shoot them in the legs. you know what? the riots were crazy in los angeles. they were crazy in portland. we remember looking at those images, donald trump was president. if you don't think i would be rubbing that in an opponent's nose every second of every fin' day if i were running against a guy claiming to be the law and order guy -- by the way, also, that coupled with all of the crime, all of the people that are getting out on bail and beating the hell out of other

people, that was donald trump's grand idea about criminal justice reform. thanks, donald. show that chaos. don't worry if people on the far left are concerned or not. because people who are going to decide this election, guess what? they want more police officers in their neighborhoods. they want more police officers in their kids' schools. they want more safety on the streets. that's not white, rich people in the upper east side. that's all americans. all americans want their children to be safer. this idea that donald trump is -- me tough law and order guy. that's the gronk imitation, by the way. he wasn't. the riots that republicans bitch and moan about all the time took place under his watch. >> yeah.

>> if he wants to play that game, let's play it. >> there's so much to work with. he made a choice not to tell the american people about covid for months. how many people are dead? >> i think amy had a good point about the double haters. we have heard this from the biden campaign, too. the double haters actually don't hate biden. they hate trump. they can be moved to biden. >> some solutions have to go with this. there's been some interesting ideas around how to deal with the housing crisis and the mortgage rates in particular. assumable mortgages, that's how my parents bought a house when interest rates were 15%. there are some efforts floating around, solutions. that's one of the things that i find frustrating about the president. yes, you have to litigate the past. but also, he is the only one who has the potential to propose solutions and change on abortion, on even the housing crisis. there are solutions out there.

let's talk about that. trump isn't capable of that. it's all demagoguery. there's a contrast right there. >> so much. lauren leader, thank you. check out her opinion piece for "the hill." "the constitution is the best and most difficult way to protect abortion rights." you can read that right now online. coming up, our next guest has appeared in more than 100 films. emmy and tony award winning actor john leguizamo joins us with a look at his new series "the green veil." "the green veil. old? wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. now, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add any base shop now at sleepnumber.com

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did you have a good day? >> yeah. i did.

and you? >> i feel happy. >> i wonder why. i am grateful for family. >> don't you dare? that's enough. >> for profession. where is my daughter? where is my daughter? and for purpose. tell me where you were. >> what's your job in all this? >> my work is top secret. >> that was a part of the trailer for the new limited series entitled "the green veil." it follows an fbi agent as he takes part in the government's efforts to remove native american children from their families.

the series is based on a real period of time in the 20th century when the u.s. government would take indigenous children from their homes to be assimilated with white families or within predominantly white institutions. joining us now, the star of "the green veil," john leguizamo. he serves as executive producer on the show. thank you for coming into the studio. it's good to have you. wow. tell us about "the green veil" and what drew you to it. >> this is based on historic fact. the u.s. government was coming up with excused to take native american children from the reservations and putting them up for adoption so they couldn't inherit the land so it would be free for corporations that wanted it. when the creator told me, i said, i'm in. these stories need to be told, they immediate to be heard. that's why the creator created

this new platform, the network, which is free and bingeable. we made the platform because these shows -- even though hollywood, you want to be inclusive and do important -- they don't. they all passed. they loved it, but they wouldn't put it on. it was too edgy. it's about native americans with a latin lead. it was difficult for them. >> wow. they all passed. >> i'm a longtime fan of yours. this project here, given the climate we're in in this election, isn't it important for us to not hide what government is capable of doing and that we need to make sure they don't do again? the story you are telling, this was government doing this to

people for economic reasons. >> right, for corporations. >> targeting people based on who they were. how important is it? >> it's always important to show these stories and tell the government can be great, but it can also do abusive things, especially whether it's of people of color and one of the most abused groups in america, the indigenous people. >> this was such a matter that congress stepped in and investigating. there was a supreme court decision last year. tell us the real story here. how is it still reverberating among families? >> it went from the '50s to the '80s. in the series, we interview real children that grew up who are now in their 40s and 50s and how traumatic this was, how a lot of them ended up in drug abuse, all kinds of difficult situations. some of them took their lives. it had terrible repercussions. it was not a better situation

for them. >> one of the really cool things you have done is you talked about appealing to latino voters. it's not a monolith. talk to us what you are seeing, what your anxieties are. >> we're not a monolith. some are conservative, some are religious, some evangelical, some are not any of that, very progressive, very liberal. the important thing is, reach out. reach out, call, stomp, talk about our issues. that's what needs to be done. come after us. don't assume we will vote for you. don't assume that we're just going to be democratic and vote democrat. we're not. you have to come for us. you have to talk about our issues, which is usually economy and jobs. that's what we care about. immigration. latinos for some reason are -- they are concerned about what's

going on. that's not their main concern. their main concern is, how do i survive? >> while we are talking politics, you said you love new york. >> yes. >> is it tonight -- donald trump will be in the bronx tonight. >> he is going to get his. the bx don't mess. they don't play around. >> okay. >> he is hosting a rally. his campaign has said they expect -- >> gets a crowd where he goes. >> there was no -- my friend's daughter works there. it was empty. it was not -- it wasn't that -- >> i didn't say it was a big crowd. i just said -- there were people that want to take pictures and stuff. >> there will be protesters. >> what's the appeal? polls suggest he has inroads with the latino community. >> it's tight. >> some latinos are evangelical. evangelicals all -- >> that doesn't make sense.

>> of course it doesn't make sense. he is not the second coming. >> not even the third or fourth. >> he is the apocalypse. that's what they need to understand. >> so what is it? >> i'm not evangelical. i'm agnostic. obviously, he talks about contraception and abortion and anti-lgbtq+ laws. evangelicals believe in that stuff. that's how you get them. you are not going to get the rest of us latinos. you are not going to get latin women. they want to have control over their bodies and rights. >> i think they played the culture wars. in a street fight, what i would do is cut a commercial showing the compassion of joe biden. we have seen him show compassion, stand with the lahti

-- latino people. and going down and throwing paper towels. show him raw. "the green veil" is streaming on the network. find it on the app or online at thenetwork.screen. you do this on your own platform. >> we have to make our own platform. we latino people, we over index at the box office. 30% of streamers, $4 billion in streaming, a third of sports fans. yet, less than 6% of the lead, less than 1% of the executives, less than 1% of the stories. that's not okay, not in my american. >> john leguizamo, thank you

very much. it's great to have you on the show. >> always. i'm a big fan. we will look at stories making headlines across the country. "morning joe" will be right back. was that your grandfather, leading armies to battle? was that your great aunt, keeping armies alive? drafting the plans. taking the pictures. was it your family members who flew? who fixed. who fought. who rose to the occasion. when the world needed them the most. discover, preserve, and share the stories of your family's heroes. save on ancestry subscriptions for a limited time. smile! you found it. the feeling of finding psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis,

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43 past the hour. look at seattle. what a pretty day in its own way. it's time for a look at the morning papers. we begin in pennsylvania where "the philadelphia inquirer" leads by a shooting in chester. the man opened fire on his co-workers inside a linen company, killing two and leaving three others injured. they are still investigating the motive behind the attack. in iowa, "the des moines

register" is covering a deadly storm that swept through the state yesterday. five people were killed and at least 35 injured after powerful tornadoes ripped through the small city of greenfield. one man said, he is lucky to be alive after he was trapped under a pile of debris and his neighbors had to help clear a hole for him to climb through to safety. in florida, "the orlando sentinel" says the starliner launch is postponed. and in michigan, they are highlighting the result of a new

report which found that 86% of the litter entering the great lakes is at least partially composed of plastic. 86%, experts say. plastic pollution is particularly troubling since plastic particles can shrink and end up inside animals and drinking water. not just animals, by the way. the study estimates everyone consumes a credit card's worth of microplastics each week. molly, i'm going to say, google it. there's research on where they are finding plastic. coming up, what life is like for a hypochondriac. our next guest details his journey through the health care system of one which he calls a path to self-awareness and advocacy. he will explain that next on "morning joe."

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i think i'm having a heart attack. >> i don't think that's it. >> i'm not kidding. >> what does that mean? >> i think what he's trying to say is that he's having a heart attack. >> oh, he's having a heart attack. >> come on. >> shortness of breath. >> oh, this is ridiculous. >> radiating waves of pain. >> i know what this is, you saw that show on pbs last night, coronary country. i saw it in the tv guide. i called them, told them to make sure and not watch it. >> there was nothing else on. oh, the left arm. left arm. >> saw that show on anorexia last year, and ate like an animal for two weeks. >> why can't i have a heart attack? i'm allowed. >> and now it's google. don't google your ailments, people, please. george from "seinfeld" thinking

he's suffering from a heart attack. he ended up only having inflamed tonsils. for our next guest hype kond ya was a real life struggle in the upcoming book titled h yirks pochondria, the former president of walgreen's shares his experiences with high poe kond rhea detailing his medical claims in two years. and the difficulty of navigating the complexities of the health care system in our country. rosenbluth helped shed light on an often dismissed of health care. hall joins us now. he's currently the ceo of new ocean health solutions, and hal, it's great to see you again. it's been a long time. i think this book sheds light on an important issue, especially

post-covid. i think a lot of people are really suffering from different versions of hypochondria. tell us about the genesis of putting together this book! i'm sorry, first of all, i'm still laughing at the lead-in. definitely hits home. >> yeah. >> the genesis is that s i was in a unique position being an executive in the health care space for 12 or 15 years. i thought, hey, this needs a national conversation. there's close to a trillion, maybe even more dollars spent on hypochondria in the health care ecosystem, and no one's really talking about it, and the costs eventually go to each individual whether they have illness anxiety disorder or they don't and their premiums and copays

and what have you. and a lot of people were ashamed. so what do i care? i'm going to sit there and i'll tell my life story. i think i'm somewhere cognizant hype hypochondriac now. 16% or more of americans are diagnosed with it, so god knows how many more people have it and are undiagnosed or don't even know. >> do you get a sense, hal, from your research that this is a trend that is going up because i feel that from just my own anecdotal experience. >> yeah, well, it was always there. it accelerated during covid, and quite frankly, with the world and the state that it is in now, more and more people are suffering from it, and i think a lot of it is starts with

depression. i'm obviously not depressed, but you know, that's a trigger too to begin the journey, and frankly, a lot of it comes from tv commercials. every, you know, nine minutes there's another drug on the market, and people look at it like i did and say, hey, that's great. i need it. call the doctor, great, i got it and i had a horrendous side effect where i was in the hospital for a couple days of tests and so on and so forth, and you know, typically they come out as nothing. on the other hand, you know, a calf out here in north dakota where where i'm ranching right now, i'm running up trying to help him, and i couldn't breathe, getting a stint i was 99% blocked. sometimes it's real. a lot of times it's real. >> that's where i was going

next, i mean, and you're right to bring up mental illness, to mika's point, the fact that we have access to incomplete information online can probably lead to this as well. what can people do about it, if people are suffering from these concerns. what are some brief steps they can take to reassure themselves and start to to feel better? >> read our book, read our book. >> there you go. well done. >> there's solutions to it as well. >> all right, the new book, hypochondria, what's behind the hidden costs of health care in america. goes on sale june 18th but it's available for preorder right now. hal rosenbluth, it's great to see you. take care. >> molly, trump amnesia. >> this is what i would say, i think there are a lot of democrats who are mad -- well,

let me rephrase that. biden world thinks there are a lot of democrats that are mad at biden but are going to come home. we see trump all the time, we see a lot of the stuff, even this week there was -- you know, we talked about -- he talked about contraception, he talked about regulating contraception which is an insane idea. i do think these voters will come home, but again, it's enormous anxiety. >> it is. for rev, john, and me, that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage after a quick final break. coverage after a quick final break. in just a few clicks. and we'll come to you with a replacement you can trust. >> vo: schedule free mobile service now at safelite.com. ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't.

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. right now on "ana cabrera reports," decision 2024 donald trump bringing his maga message to a blue stronghold in new york city as he picks up a key endorsement from a former primary rival. plus, taking on ticketmaster, details of the new antitrust lawsuit expected to be