like this. each time he chooses a school with a large number of low income or first generation students. congratulations to the class of 2024. and remember, if you need help, please ask for it. and if you can give help, please give it. and i will say i don't know about you. but i really enjoyed tonight's show. that is all for tonight. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with me. have a great night. welcome to our new special. new york versus donald trump. i'm ari melber. we will break down exactly what

has happen third-degree past week. the arguments in this historic criminal trial of donald trump. the first ever for a former president as you certainly know by now. now this final week was a short one, but a lot actually happened. michael cohen was back on the stand finishing his four days of testimony. and trump's lawyers began and ended their case. so we basically in one case saw the da and the defense team both rest. and, we saw the defense witnesses who at times stumbled. >> the defense wrapped up with michael cohen after three days of cross-examination. >> it was a grueling three days. >> the prosecution has rested its case. the defense has also called its first witness. >> robert costello back on the stand. >> he was tossed from the witness box and his entire testimony was nearly stricken from the record. >> his whole attitude on the stand. >> the defense has rested its

case after calling just two witnesses. but, donald trump did not testify in his own defense. >> that's how it went down and it was action packed. michael cohen's cross raised some doubts about him as a witness and we covered that. we don't know how the jury will take it. but it was not smooth sailing. the man on the stand alleging business fraud by his own boss donald trump had to admit under oath that he himself stole from the trump organization. return to the bottom line, they basically said were you too busy to get trump's approval on this payment and he confirmed no he is not. but it mattered and he says he got the confirmation and the prosecutors are going to try to continue to turn this jury both in the last week we saw it in their closing argument to look back at why we are hearing from cohen. not because he is a model citizen, but he was the person trump picked to be involved in

all this stuff and he was the key witness. the jury heard this very simple statement you have seen in any trial, fictional, law in order, or real. quote, your honor, the people rest. that is the only time we think any prosecutors anywhere in this country will be able to answer that about defendant donald trump. this is the only trial scheduled to conclude by the election. the evidence they have supplied means the people, that's the da representing the people of new york say they have proven every element of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. but that is their case. trump's lawyers got to stand up and start their counterargument. they call third-degree one lawyer linked to cohen, you saw in the highlight reel we showed you. this is someone giuliani and trump have tried to use to discredit cohen. his name is robert costello. he faced a grand jury and had a tough go of it this week. i told you, it is not what you

hoped happened, what side you like is winning or losing though everyone is free to have strong feelings in this case. but we'll tell you what is really happening and for costello, the trump defense witness, the key longest witness they used, it is a disaster. he was rebuked by the judge for antics on the stand. the judge found him arrogant and contemptuous. you don't give me side eye or roll your eyes. i am going to show you how the judge put it. this judge who i have been in the courtroom has been very fair throughout. even measured, kind of mellow at times. he said this witness above all others was quote contemptuous. that is a specific legal term. it means you could be held in contempt. though the judge did not try to jail him that day. probably because it would become too much of a distraction. legal experts said the trump defense lawyers would have been better offer not calling this troubled witness.

they have completed their mission and don't need trump to testify. and he has every right not the testify. they call those two witnesses. that is compared to 20 by the da, a mismatch that is normal. that is routine. because the da, the prosecutors have the burden of providing witnesses. the defense doesn't have to do anything. the jury was sent home. and the lawyers have been hashing out toward the end of the week, the jury instructions. >> testimony now complete, jurors were sent home. and the final phase of the trial got underway. >> the crucial hearing started about the nature of the jury instructions. >> what will be the last words to the jury before the 12 men and women decide the fate of donald trump in the hush money cover-up trial? >> the final showdown between the prosecution and the defense set to take place next tuesday. when both sides present their summations before the jury. >> these jury instructions

matter a lot. they might matter more than closing arguments. the last thing the jury hears on the rules matters a lot. it comes from the judge. it has that authority. and the lawyers here are clashing about exactly what goes in those instructions and all of this will go to guide how this jury considers what trump knew and what he intended. i told you this as fair as i can. part of the allegations here, part of the crimes have effectively been proven. by which i mean when you have the paperwork and it is lying and you have donald trump's signature on it, you have proven the basic element of the fraud that this stuff is not what he says it was. and you have cohen and the paperwork showing that. you had to have trump's intent on that and the second issue about this campaign trial. jump's lawyers wanted to take all of that that i just

referred to in simple form and try to make it more complex with a higher kind of burden than the law might require. at times, they were asking for special treatment and i told you, they have the right to make the requests. the judge has been through this rodeo before. and, he is in charge. that's a ridiculous request. they did make some ground on. so issues but when they ask the judge to consider the extraordinary issue of the case, hey, the judge said i'm not going to change the law. you can't just say hey, this guy is important in some generalized sense. remember, no one is above the law. trump had also been seen dozing off in court throughout the course of this trial. which is a contrast to how he was during the jury instruction arguments. again, sometimes donald trump and politics and in court, he plays a more disengaged and more aloof person than he actually is. he is a reality show star, an actor. he can perk up and pay a lot of

attention. there was no napping during the debate over the jury instructions. this defendant knows how important they are. tuesday, the jury hears the closing arguments and the judges told the jurors they may have to stay late. everyone can go rest up and all that. he is hopeing to have them all hear the arguments perhaps finish them on tuesday. and turn the deliberations. hour by hour, we will know nothing about what they are doing. but the vote might be. ask for evidence. or announce their decision. we don't know how long the deliberations will take. we don't know which parts of the case will matter the most

to the jury. there are some big things we think will matter. stormy daniels testifying about something trump says is a big deal. michael cohen, when he was attacked on. does he tell the truth? those are the things we could infer the jury will care about. but we don't know. and i say that not as an exercise, not as an observation but the actual humility of how it is supposed to work. it what happens inside among the jury members. a jury of your peers, that's all that matters in this courtroom in the week ahead. and we have two legal experts that know all about that and how important that process is. we will get into this in 90 seconds. to this in 90 seconds.

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tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor. tyk2 is part of the jak family. it's not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. there's only one sotyktu, so ask for it by name. so clearly you. sotyktu. our solemn responsibility to ensure that everyone stands equal before the law. no amount of money or power changes that enduring american principle. >> da alvin bragg speaking. that one and only time that he addressed this case in public. announcing those charges that now have become the only criminal trial this year of defense and presidential candidate donald trump. we are now joined by andrew weissman and christy greenberg.

i want to ask you to broaden out we are in this day by day andrew. but this is our special. when we look at the entire case, what do you think has been proven and what fairly is the most clear and convincing evidence that the da has been able to bring and what if any reasonable doubts do you think could still be there? >> i think something that gets lost is one of the things that has been established beyond any question at all. and frankly isn't much of a battleground in this trial. is something that is pretty shocking. which is david testimony that he had an agreement with donald trump. one to one. principle to principle, that there was not just a catch and kill scheme, but there was also a scheme to intentionally defame opponents. and so you had a media outlet that many people may view as a

down market. but one that was in cahoots with a political candidate. just from a political perspective. just to me, it should still be shocking and to the jurors it will be one of the reasons why they may care about this case. because that sort of one of the intents that informs why this is a felony. i think the area where there is going to be the most. >> i'll go back to you. on part two. but on part one, where you said i'm going to jump in. moderator's privilege. you make such an important point i want to underscore it andrew. which is you said down market. supermarket. this tabloid matters a lot and i want to echo what you are saying because you talk about the evidence as a lawyer. it is not for us to say what is better for the new york or the atlantic or this tabloid. this was an extraordinary secret agreement. it was unfair to the voters obviously. it was also unfair to all of donald trump's republican

primary candidates. some of whom complained there was something going on, but it wasn't exposed then. so we think about the law as a search for truth. i appreciate what you are saying because the case has exposed more truth. unfair to the voters and the republican primary candidates. and yes, unfair to the democrat and we know all the politics about that. you make a great point. i give you back the ball for a second point. and christy, same point to you. >> christy is a really good trial lawyer also. really quickly, i think the area where i think there will be sort of pitch battles is about what did donald trump know about the false business records? you know, you obviously have michael cohen. but i think that you will hear a lot about putting together pecker, hope hicks. and just how unlikely it would be that michael cohen, why they would keep it from donald trump. so i think you will hear that

is the main battleground. substantiatively, that will be the main issue. >> i agree. to the piece of this proving there was an agreement to unlawfully influence the election, there is just so much evidence from so many different how the whole meeting in august of 2015 was set up. direct conversations not just between donald trump, also hearing about the fact that even after the election, not just david pecker but hope hicks or both having donald trump say if either of these stories whether it is karen mcdougal or stormy daniels got out, it would have been damaging to the campaign and i don't see any way that you would describe why for stormy daniels they were delaying the payments if the purpose was

just to prevent embarrassment to his family or to himself and not to the campaign. the timing doesn't add up. otherwise, you just made the payment at any point. i think that point is very strong and a lot of witnesses corroborate it. i agree with andrew, the evidence that donald trump caused these false business records to be made, it doesn't have to be direct. but there wasn't evidence that donald trump was directing or requesting anybody to make the false business records. so, where do you get this evidence? you know, i think ultimately, there is going to be an argument. look, he was kind of working in concert with different people. he understood that there was going to be a reimbursement to michael cohen and donald trump knew there would be a reimbursement as well. there is a very important document that donald trump signed saying that michael cohen was going to be

reimbursed for expenses in 2016. there is now, the burden of proof is not on the defense but the defense presented no theory when it put forth its case as to what those expenses were. they were $250,000. so if it is not these checks that are the reimbursements, what are the other payments for? so again, i think the evidence comes together really well that donald trump in fact knew that these payments of $35,000 were for the reimbursements to get you that piece. >> and christy, do you ever binge watch the shows like ozark where you have to catch up on the story? yeah? my question is how will the da take that approach that everyone remembers in the first

30 seconds of episode 15. they don't try to cover everything that happened but they quickly tell you, they tell you when they hid the gun and found the gun and this person got killed and now they found the drugs. what will the prosecution in your view do? if they do it well, you have a lot of experience. it was 20 in total. how are they going to catch everything up? >> i think michael cohen being the prosecution's last witness, he really laid out the story and so i would use his testimony to lay it out again and continue to corroborate. you also heard, for example, the delaying of the payment to stormy daniels. why did that happen? you heard from michael cohen why that happened because donald trump didn't want to make the payment until after the election.

but you heard that from keith davidson. he understood the same thing to be true. and you saw in fact the emails about all the excuses michael cohen came up with. kind of weave through all the evidence. use michael to hen to tell the story. and use all the ways he has corroborated along the way as you take the jury through that narrative. >> andrew? >> i do think you use a time line and you can use a power point or a physical chart. to try to create the timing here is so good for the government as christy said. and you sort of create this time line and you layer it with things that are hard evidence. phone records. emails. things that cannot be disputed. that checks the signatures. then you layer into that time line the things that are

softer. there is no way to challenge her testimony. the jury is going to accept that. and so, either all these different pieces, the one thing i might do slightly differently than christy but i'm not sure, it will be interesting to see what happens. i might present everything and then focus on michael cohen. talk about how strong the case is. before you even get to him. and he is sort of icing. because the defense i think is going to want to say he is indispensable to finding a conviction and the state will want to say he is not. he is additional. yes, he is credible, and you know he is. but you will hear so much of the defense saying the prosecution has to have you rely on him and he is incredible. and obviously, christy is right. they will be shoring him up with all sorts of

corroboration. which he is. some of the best corroboration for michael cohen. >> i think that is a fair point. the other big thing before i lose you both, something we haven't heard about yet. first, yes or no. and we could talk about it. yes or no, do we think we will hear the defense. the trump lawyers on tuesday say where is alan weisselberg? yes or no, andrew? >> yes. they will say that. >> i want to get both of you. >> i think they will try that. >> both of your explanations and i don't do predictions. but i think it is reasonably likely they will hit that which will be an interesting piece. this is the phantom incarcerated for the second time. trump cfo. if you are thinking about working for the trump

organization, you should know their cfo has been to jail twice the last couple of years but for the jury, first andrew and then christy. >> so it is a very tricky. you are allowed to say the following which is the defense doesn't have to do anything. they can sit back. but they did choose to put on a case. they do have subpoena power. they do have the ability to put forth witnesses. and if they thought those people would be helpful, they had the right. not an obligation, but they had the right to call them and frankly, alan weissman and keith schillar, the big missing witnesses are people very much aligned with them and in their control. so, no one was preventing them from calling them. but you have to do that in a very careful way so you don't suggest that they had an obligation to call them. >> 30 seconds left. >> i think if the defense makes that argument, you will hear on

rebut they, they could have called him as well. and again, in a careful way, that he was equally available to both sides. and then i think you will probably hear some arguments from the lawyers not in the presence of the jury. about whether or not some jury instruction should be given to the jury about just that fact. that he was equally available to both sides. and both sides chose not to call him. we haven't seen the jury instructions yet to know if that is what they will be given. but if the defense open it is door on that, the jury instruction to that effect may be warranted. >> super constructive to hear from you. if you took out all the court rules you could imagine just the defense saying if this is such a strong case, why didn't they have the guy who drew up this supposed terrible plan and you could imagine the prosecutors saying because he is a crook and a liar and he is in rikers and we don't trust

him. but there are a little more rules on that. i appreciate both of you. when we tell you at home that we are doing these specials, what makes it special? it can't be the anchor. i'm here all the time. sometimes it is the guests tonight. we have pulitzer prize winner doris kerns goodwin. she is on tv tonight for us for this special. we think it is pretty special. and another special guest t lawyer for one of the key star witnesses, stormy daniels, with me for the first time coming up. he first time coming up. d? safelite makes it easy. you can schedule in just a few clicks. and we'll come to you with a replacement you can trust. >> vo: schedule free mobile service now at safelite.com. ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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>> this is her lawyer, clark brewster. couldn't be prouder of my client. >> the cross was right up her alley. >> she was not going to let her story be mischaracterized. >> stormy daniels is a key witness in this trial. she has spent about eight hours on the stand. her testimony is crucial to what happens next. and we are joined now by her aforementioned lawyer, clark brewster. thanks for being here. >> my pleasure, ari. >> what do you think she got across as a witness about the things she knew from her own experience in this trial? >> the thing i think she really brought to the courtroom was the genuineness. the openness. the transparency. the ability to deal with the cross. and go through the facts. even if there were contradictions in her previous statement to explain why. and i think she appear today be

very credible, very genuine. she related it very well in the courtroom. >> and we have seen different approaches of cross-examination over the trial. we have it all. i think it is fair to say michael cohen had a rougher cross exam. he certainly had to concede not only falsehoods but criminal and other acts which is known because he is a convict. and, miss daniels is not in that same position. over time, it became clear her cross was not the hottest or worst moment that she did pretty well. i do want to show they discussed with her, well what about the 130,000? she said i don't care about the amount. the money didn't matter to me. the whole thing is about money. and, the trump attorney was also able to say, but you didn't know what trump's involvement was.

indeed at the time as we have all since learned, the money came out of michael cohen loan. and she said not directly, no. does any of that in your view matter to the core issue of donald trump's guilt? how should people understand what she said there? >> well i think what really heated up the need to quiet her was the access hollywood tape. and when that broke, there was kind of a fevered effort on the trump side of things to try to quiet as many women as they could. two we know about are karen mcdougal and stormy daniels so that was the motivation. and stormy obviously wouldn't have known what was going on behind the scenes on the trump side. but she certainly knew what was going on from her perspective. and, from her perspective, she thought if this is documented and dealt with in a way, if something happen to me, i'll feel as if i have some at least some protection that it is documented and known about. so that was her plan. and, it was either to go public

and reveal what happened so it was a matter of record. or have it documented in a full nondisclosure agreement with the payment of some money at least to document that. and that's what she did. >> in the questioning, trump's lawyers seemed to suggest or argue that ms. daniel's work, that her career makes her less than credible. and even somehow a questionable individual. i don't know whether they will return to that in closing. do you think they crossed a line in there? >> i think the jury saw who she really was and what she dealt with in her life and how she dealt with it. she has had incredible success as a person. what she has chosen to do since being so involved in film. i think that falls flat. but i do believe that was the narrative he believed to take advantage of her. that she was in this industry. that she would not tell people

or that she would bring more women into his sphere. so the very thing that they are accusing her of now is what made her a target for him in my view. >> being stormy daniel's lawyer is a certain kind of job with exposure. political heat. we have the past lawyers up. keith davidson testifyed in the trial. michael avinati was convicted of crimes related to that representation and other crimes. since you are here, we heard from him. i want to give you the benefit of responding. take a listen. >> this is the wrong case at the wrong time.

i think that the case is stale at this juncture, you are talk conduct that occurred eight years ago. it had been represented to me she had not been attempting to extort donald trump in the waning days of 2016. that they had come to her. i believed her when she told me that. in 2019, i came to learn that was not true. >> he know longer represents her. you do, your response. >> interesting perspective for a guy that has been convicted of extortion. convicted of fraud. convicted of embezzlement. to suggest there is some extortion scheme when he was engaged in extortion in the nike case is interesting. i began representing stormy in early march of 19. late february early march.

we knew he had forged her name and embezzled the money. he was completely quiet. ghosted her for weeks. the idea he came into the knowledge she was doing something wrongful and his ethics were so strong he had to withdraw from representing her is nonsense. >> understood. again, you represent her now. you have more? >> no. i find avinati's ability to attempt to reinvent himself to be interesting. >> fair enough. in closing in the final question, do you have any views of what you expect when the jury gets the case? what does this mean and whatever the result may be to your client ms. daniels it is fair to say has been through a lot. >> she has. and it is hard to predict what jurors think. no matter what you might think,

you think one of them will do, different results occur. so it will be really interesting to see the verdict. i think it will benefit the prosecution greatly and explain the evidence in a way that is powerful and meets the jury instructions. i don't believe there is any real doubt that the criminal acts occurred. the question is whether this jury will convict him. that's the issue. >> understood. clark, brewster, attorney for witness stormy daniels. thank you for your time on this special tonight. >> thank you. >> appreciate it. yeah, we have a response from andrew weissman and as promised, historian doris kerns goodwin tonight. that's both coming up. goodwin tonight. that's both coming up. because we need the planet. and we also need nuggets. impossible. we're solving the meat problem with more meat.

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we are back with andrew weissman. on more than one topic. i just heard from stormy dan yes, ma'am's lawyer there. her first lawyer who did this deal as a witness. her second lawyer controversially convicted of crimes related to her. >> one thing that is really striking with the clip you played for michael avinati and bob costello, the last defense witness, is i had always been taught as a lawyer that you have a continuing duty of

loyalty to your client. there was something just as a lawyer that i am sort of stunned, he is representing her. and, he is not allowed to besmirch her and other lawyers should not be doing something different. the other thought i had, i was in court for stormy daniel's testimony. the whole case here is about that donald trump is accused of not wanting her story to come out. and, he had a cross-examination of her that was hammer and tongs. and, you know, her testimony wasn't even all that important to the case. this was just whether she was telling the truth or not was really almost, almost irrelevant. because the issue is did he

want that story to be out there or not. but david pecker and hope hicks who had very damaging information to give to the jury, they had very light cross- examinations. so, in many ways, what you saw, he didn't want the story to come out. i think stormy daniels did a really good job, particularly in cross-examination. and, humanizing herself and making people understand who she is. and she is wicked smart as the young kids say. >> yeah. i think all of that is fair. and for the jury that was getting this narrative as you say to hear from her as a person was important. and i think the da scored

points as well by being very clear. there were stories that were false. a doorman story they said very clearly in the opening arguments. you will hear about other things they did that were false. their point was not we are just throwing everything at donald trump for no reason. but if he is going to be lying about this and his lawyers are going to be as they are allow today do presenting a different story, we will hear from the witness herself. so that was striking. on more than one topic, thanks for being here. >> glad to be here. take care. >> absolutely. appreciate it. we wanted to get that perspective from andrew on ms. daniel's current lawyer. as promised, doris kerns goodwin is up next on how the nation is taking in this living history. in this living history.

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we hear these words so often. i can tell you no matter what happened what happens in the weeks ahead, they have rested the case in the first criminal trial of any former president who is running for president. this is history. it is reaching a massive audience in big ways just as fdr had the radio and kennedy had tv. while this trial not televised is very much being discussed and shared and thus broadcast in its own way through us.

>> this became the worst day in court for donald trump. >> really pleading to trump. like, follow my order please. i don't want to have to put you in jail. >> what a loser. donald trump doesn't testify. >> this is how many millions of americans are first learning of things happening. you and i might read the transcripts or follow it on tv. a lot of people are getting it this way. trump and his allies are also trying to not only shape how people understand what is happening. polling shows most americans still trust juries. the jury system which of course is about whether we trust each other to follow these rules in

court, is more trusted than other aspects of the system. a third of republican voters still say if trump is convicted in the next week or two it could happen, they would no longer be able to vote for him. as promised, and as quite honestly promoted, the story in doris kerns goodwin. is with us and her new book is an unfinished love story. a personal history of the 1960s . welcome. >> thank you. i'm glad to be here for this historic moment. >> so i will start with the straightforward easy question. what do we need to keep in mind living through history like this and what does it matter that many people who process the outcome of the trial and go onto vote are learning about it in new mediums including the

internet with all of its pros and cons? >> what will be really important is how the country regards what the jury decides. the sixth amendment is such an important thing. and, if the former president were to be convicted, and if people then began to attack the jury system as we attacked, we saw attacked after the election was lost, the electoral system was devastatingly attacked. i think the country will be in trouble. so, what we have to hope is that we can educate the country as to what the jury means. and how we trust that. we have trusted it over an enormous amount of our time. and, there might be an acceptance of the decision as it is. we haven't accepted at least large numbers haven't accepted what happened in the election. if we had another distrust, it would be up to the media to

describe what it means to have the 12 people come to the decision if it were to be a conviction. that's the chapter ahead of us that may be more important than what the decision is itself. >> the justice system, that branch of government, while it has its problems and we covered them, it is supposed to be more independent, less partisan. than the other branches obviously. and that has worked in some ways. we have the numbers i referred to. i want to do the comparison. when you look at congress, and the presidency, the presidency depends on the situation. but that's low. and the supreme court has fallen just in the last five or ten years. and has seen i would argue, not as a problem with the court, but that people think the court itself has become too

political. let me flip the question. if trump skates, if he is not convicted, what is it, what is important for people to consider on that side as well? because it has to go both ways doesn't it? >> you're right. i think then there might be an argument on the part of the people who are disappointed by the decision. while the rule of law was not applied fairly. that would be an equal problem because you are not trusting the jury in that sense so i think we have to put our trust in the jury. that's the only thing on either side we can say. one of the things old abraham lincoln said which is still to be determined and your percentage about people who might not vote for the former president if he is convicted suggest that lincoln said public sentiment was more important even in a court decision was more important than a law that is passed by congress. and what he meant by that is if a settled feeling develops in the country, not just public

opinion, but a settled feeling that developed that slavery was wrong, there was nothing that was going to stop that from being undone. if the settled feeling described in the country is felt that this is the wrong thing that this president did, and that he should not be elected that will be one decision that will be made. it will be public sentiment between what happens now and november that will be the history about how this country is responding, how democracy responds, whether the institutions hold up. >> it is striking when you put it that way. what we need is this backstop. things have gotten intense with people flying up to new york to doubt the whole jury system. we need it more than ever. doris kerns goodwin. special ingredient to our special. i want to mening your new book. an unfinished love story. people can look it up and find it wherever you get your books. we always love having doris on. it is a treat. i want to tell everyone at the

end of this special that we have been reporting from inside the courtroom. our whole team. is lawyers, anchors you see on msnbc, i want to mention next week, we will be back there on tuesday. i can tell you i will be inside the troop. you courtroom. go to any of your favorite show to find our extra coverage. keep it locked right here. on msnbc. locked right here. on msnbc. liberty mutual customized my car insurance

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her uncle's unhappy. i'm sensing an underlying issue. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. donald trump's three supreme court justices have not yet proven themselves to be worse or more ethically challenged than the two who are now in an intense competition