ful... ...day to fly. shell renewable race fuel. reducing emissions by 60%. ♪♪ we're moving forward with indycar. because we're moving forward with everybody. shell. powering progress. the honorable james patrick mcgovern gets tonight's last rule.

tonight the supreme court gives republicans a key victory. what today's ruling on elections could mean ahead of november. then, a border security bill dies again in the senate after getting no support from the party that loves talking about border chaos. the doj versus live nation. why the feds are taking on the entertainment giant over ticket prices as the 11th hour gets gets underway on this thursday night. good evening, once again, i'm stephanie rule live from new york city, and we're now 166 days away from the election. and as we wait for tuesday's closing arguments in donald trump's new york criminal trial, the nation's highest court just made a big decision when it comes to the right to vote. the ruling involves a congressional map down in south carolina and how its lines are drawn. the supreme court sided with south carolina republicans and their map. the court's conservative

majority said the plaintiffs did not prove their claim that it was redrawn on the basis of race. the opinion, written by justice samuel alito, will make it harder for plaintiffs to make challenges like this one going forward. today president biden condemned the decision saying it undermines the basic principle that voting practices should not discriminate on account of race, and that is wrong. the president went on to say this is part of a dangerous pattern from republicans to dilute the will of black voters. speaking of the supreme court and justice alito, we talked about it last night, he is facing even more backlash, including from some republicans over new reports that not one, but now two flags carried by some january 6th rioters flew outside his homes. the flags were also used by supporters of the stop the steal movement. now some are calling for him to recuse himself from any cases tied to january 6th

and donald trump's presidential immunity claim. >> if the supreme court does not get its act under control, you can be confident that democrats in the house of representatives partnering with democrats in the united states senate will act the first opportunity we have to engage in thorough oversight and the consideration of imposing an ethical code of conduct on supreme court justices. >> we're awaiting the court's rulings on cases involving the capitol riot. so far there's no sign of justice alito planning to sit out any of the upcoming cases because an ethical code violation amounts to almost nothing. with that, let's get smarter with the help of our lead off panel. it is a great one.

peter baker is here. chief white house correspondent for the new york times. hayes brown, i'm thrilled his back. editor and writer for msnbc.com, and charles coleman jr. who has a new set of frames and brought them just for us. hayes, let's start with the supreme court. why is it so important when it comes to the right to vote for all americans? >> because, like you said in the intro, this decision makes it harder to bring these cases to the supreme court or the court in general to say this gerrymandering was done. justice alito is saying it's almost impossible to determine race versus poll sicks. this is only possible because of the shelby decision that gutted the voting rights act that made it so states like south carolina, they have to go to the department of justice to get approval for

their districts when they were redrawn to say this is why this is not racial gerrymandering. in destroying that standard, it left the door open for alito to say there's no way to tell making it harder for these cases to be brought forward and prove that black americans are being disenfranchised in this way. >> charles, what do you think from a legal standpoint? >> they've opened the door to this happening across the country. to tether race and politics in the way they have in such a way they're virtually inseparable according to alito allows other jurisdictions watching this to do the exact same thing. i think from the standpoint of the supreme court making that decision, it will be sound until they change their minds. the supreme court is not right because they're not last because they're right, they're right because they're always last. i say that often. and from a legal standpoint

it's going to stand until you have definitive proof that certain decisions are made on the lines of race and not political party. it's deeply problematic and has significantly larger implications. >> peter, we know the president cares a lot about voting right, but we have not heard about it much on the campaign trail. where do they stand in terms of his priorities? >> well, i think it's a high priority of his, but of course he's been frustrating from passing legislation in the senate where the filibuster remains in place. they chose not to eliminate the filibuster because they didn't have the votes. enough democrats were wary of getting rid of it because it's a useful thing when they're in the minority. so that's something you have to look at again. my guess is after this election, that's one thing you hear the white house talk about. can they make another effort at getting rid of the filibuster and passing a federal voting rights act. without that they won't be able to do it. he doesn't talk about it as much today as a few years ago,

and that may explain in part why he's had some political trouble in terms of rallying black voters back to him according to the polls. polls show that there's some frustration on the part of many voters that he hasn't followed through on promises on voting rights even though, of course, that's because he doesn't have the votes to do it. that's the problem, of course. it's sort of a circle in that regard. but you heard him talk a little about it today. presumably he'll talk about it in the days to come. but it hasn't been a major theme so far in the campaign. >> hayes, do you believe the biden-harris campaign is making a mistake not campaigning harder on voting rights? >> i do. i think that from one standpoint it makes sense to go hard on this because of this centrality of democracy to president biden's election pitch. he's arguing that if donald trump is re-elected, he's a threat to democracy. what is the opposite of that, though? it's enabling voting rights. it's putting the power in the hands of the american people.

and given how much distrust there is over elections, in no small part thanks to donald trump, you see in polling that people on both sides are worried about whether the election will be fair. whether it will be upheld. i think for president biden and vice president harris to go out there and say look, we know that it is important to vote. we want you to be able to vote. we want everyone to be able to vote fairly. that is what we are about. it's the other side that wants to pretend like fake people are voting -- >> yes, pretend. no one on the right is legitimately concerned about voter fraud, and this argument about maybe not accepting the election results is all nonsense whether they're bowing at the altar of donald trump who won't accept true results. >> exactly. >> charles, can we talk about justice alito? what's your reaction to the reports of the flags in his home, now in his vacation home. especially on a day when he wrote such a significant

opinion. >> there's an old football coach, i believe lovey smith once said at a press conference they are exactly who we thought they were. samuel alito is exactly who we thought he was, and you don't need flags to come to that decision or conclusion. you can look at his decisions, his opinions. south carolina being one of them. the fact that there is no congressional, congressionally imposed ethics on the supreme court means nothing because they're going to do what they're going to do. and for as much as i respect and admire jeffries, you don't need further violations. we've seen enough -- >> even if they give him an ethics code violation, it doesn't mean anything, charles. >> correct. >> so he can stand up there and say if you do this one more time, we're coming for you. they can't come for them. these supreme court justices have a lifetime appointment, okay? if i knew i had this job for

the rest of my life, right, i would do it in my pajamas, wouldn't look at ratings or read a single word. they have no motivation. doesn't matter if the country doesn't trust or like them. they have the jobs forever. >> which is exactly why the notion of the flag, while they may be exposing and enlightening for some people, they do not surprise me or make a difference because it doesn't change anything about alito and how he'll do his job or the ways he's compelled to do his job because he doesn't have to recuse himself from the cases involving january 6th or recuse himself from donald trump's immunity case. ultimately these are just flags blowing in the wind. >> literally and figuratively. peter, we've been here before with clarence thomas. it's highly unlikely alito will recuse himself, and to be honest there doesn't seem to be real political will to impose ethics reform, and even if there's ethics reform, they're not losing their jobs. where does that put us going

forward? >> no, i mean, they're not. they have the choice to decide how they comply with ethics, and other than, other than impeachment, which is a rather extreme remedy, there's nothing really that any other branch of the government can do about it. what's fascinating is what justice alito is talking about in today's decision about keeping the court out of what are essentially political decisions. he said the districting decisions are political decisions by political bodies and courts don't really have much of a role in it. yet, the problem obvious is the appearance of politics on the courts. the 6-3 decision today was broken down very clearly along party lines, if you want to look at it that way. the six justices appointed by republicans voted in the majority. the three appointed by democrats voted in the minority. and increasingly you see polls showing public sense that justices and judges in the

lower courts are themselves partisan actors, not neutral arbitors of the law. if it's seen through a political lens, it's harder to maintain the credibility and faith in the system. >> but what does it matter, hayes, not to be a total cynic, if we don't have faith in our supreme court. they still have, to charles' first point tonight, the last word. we could is it here and say polling shows that the american people have no faith in the supreme court. do any of them care? >> i mean, here's the thing that is hard to wrap your head around. it's the idea that the supreme court makes decisions, it's up to the executive to enforce them. no one is calling for president biden to ignore supreme court decisions because that's a constitutional crisis nobody wants. but i feel like the justices know that, and that's part of the problem. they're aware that short of impeachment, there's no way to get them off the bench. >> they have the last word. >> they have the last word.

but they're counting on the executive to fulfill their constitutional duty and uphold the law as the supreme court has interpreted it. so knowing that, they are just willing to completely flout any sort of impartiality they should be having in these decisions and do what they want. so, yeah, i hear your point about them running ram shod, that's kind of what they're doing unless or until they make a decision so egregious it's impossible for the president to stand up and say i can enforce this. if they put forward on ethics standard and said explicitly to violate it is grounds for impeachment or removal, without that willingness to actually step up and be a co-equal branch, we're not moving forward. >> you have to wonder what all this is doing to chief justice

roberts. new topic. the washington post is reporting that in at least three states, electors who tried to reverse trump's loss in 2020 want to serve again and most are currently under indictment. what does that tell you, charles? >> well, i have a few guess, and they're all the same. and that is that they want to do the same thing. they want to be there to rig the process and stack the deck. this is not calculus here. they understand how the system is and think to themselves i got so close last time, this is what i did wrong. if i could just get one more crack at it, i can make sure i don't make the sake mistakes as did i before. it highlights the brokenness of our system and the things that need to be change such as you shouldn't be under indictment for a thing and then go back and do the thing

you're under indictment for. although i joked aid and abet, you're talking about something that's really essential to our democracy functioning the way that it should, and our elections having the integrity they're supposed to be. this is deeply problematic on a number of levels. >> it highlights what's broken, meaning we have an opportunity to fix it. peter, your take? >> well, look, you know, this is a sign that the republicans don't see anything wrong in what happened. they don't believe that these indictments are legitimate. that's what donald trump is telling them, and that's what they're taking away from that. that this is all a political prosecution. that they have the right to offer substitute slates of electors for the election, and there's a chance they could try and do it again, even in states where joe biden right win. now, we don't know how it will play out this fall. donald trump is not the incumbent president. it's a different scenario if he were to lose and tried to

overturn an election. but it's conceivable you'll see a very disputed situation once again after election day. if there are states close enough to one side for the other, we're assuming former president trump's side. >> and it makes you wonder will democrats who voted to save mike johnson, will they one day regret that decision. peter, hayes, charles, actually charles, you're winning mvp of this segment. i'm sorry, hayes. i haven't seen you in awhile. i was thrilled you were back. but charles, you really shined tonight. >> thank you. >> bravo to you. >> peter, as always great. i'll see you soon. when we come back, republicans had another chance to do something about the border crisis they talk about day in and day out. they had the chance to pass a bill that they worked on, but they didn't do it. and later, what brought down red lobster?

well, here's a hint. it was not the all you can eat shrimp special. the 11th hour just getting underway on a thursday night.

why choose a sleep number smart bed? can it keep me warm when i'm cold? wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. now, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add any base shop now at sleepnumber.com i still love to surf, snowboard, and, of course, skate. so, i take qunol magnesium to support my muscle and bone health. qunol's extra strength, high absorption magnesium helps me get the full benefits of magnesium. qunol, the brand i trust. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the

number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. shell renewable race fuel. reducing emissions by 60%. ♪♪ we're moving forward with indycar. because we're moving forward with everybody. shell. powering progress.

today senate democrats gave republicans another chance to pass an immigration bill, and they rejected it. this was the very same bill they voted against in february even though it was a republican who helped write this thing. republicans, of course, led by donald trump, have decided campaigning on border chaos is better than solving it. let's discuss it and bring in retired colonel amy mcgrath, and former republican congressman charlie dent, now a senior advisor to the new group a republican legacy. all right, charlie. we knew the bill would fail because donald trump wanted it

to. what is your take on this? especially for people in your party that this is a top priority for. >> well, i said at the time that this is a very cynical ploy by former president trump to basically torpedo legislation that brought many right of center policy victories for republicans on the border. specifically asylum perform and providing more detention space and other things. they didn't pocket the gains they could have had, and then they could have still blamed joe biden who is dealing in the brunt of the blame. so biden is still very vulnerable on the issue, but republicans, because of their cynicism in the case may share some of the blame for the border. so yeah, it's a cynical ploy.

they should have embraced the bill that langford negotiated. and republicans will not get as good a deal in the next congress. let's assume for a moment that president trump wins the presidency. trump won't get as good a deal because senate democrats won't allow it because of the filibuster. so i think republicans have made a blunder here on the border. but it's not going to effect them too much politically because biden is getting the blame for it. >> getting the blamish because people believe things no longer true. amy, just last week i interviewed republican senator mitt romney, and he said joe biden did nothing at the border, nothing at the border, but romney can't make that argument when you actually hit him with the truth which is they've got a bill right here, and it's republicans blocking it. so democrats have done the right thing that they're trying to flip the script, but to charlie's point, how do they get that message out? >> well, they do what they did today.

they put the bill on the floor and make the republicans vote it down yet again which is exactly what happened. you know, the republican senate insisted that we get a border bill, that they get a border bill. and they wrote it. you know, it was senator langford. mitch mcconnell hand picked him to write the bill, he wrote the bill, tried to push it through, and then trump torpedoed it. why? because trump wants chaos at the border. he does not want this problem to be fixed right now. it would give biden a victory, and he's running on the border as an issue, as a political issue. and, you know, joe biden and his team and democrats simply have to turn around and use it against them saying look, these guys aren't serious about solving this problem. they just want to use the issue that's hurting our country. that's what they have to do.

>> charlie, new tropic. donald trump allegedly told oil executives donating to him would mean less regulations for them on top of corporate tax cuts and on top of the private equity sector getting the interest loophole. but republicans are arguing that forgiving student debt is a give away to some and not others, and it's buying votes. how is that buying votes, but all the other things i laid out not buying votes? >> well, let me first say on student debt relief, i think it's outrageous that the biden administration is forgiving debt -- >> wait, charlie, we're not having a debate. hold on a minute. we're not going to have a debate on the merits of forgiving student debt. the arguments republicans are making is it only helps people that went to college. what about the people that didn't go to college? couldn't you say the same

thing to people that don't run corporate america or sit in private equity? >> well, my only point on the student debt is that type of debt forgiveness must be voted on my congress. it's a massive appropriation -- >> but that's not what i'm asking you about. >> i know. but back to the oil and gas issue. look, i don't doubt that president trump made some implicit or explicit statement saying you help me and i'll help you. he did that with the zelenskyy call that caused his first impeachment when he basically tried to shake zelenskyy down to conduct an investigation of the biden family, and in exchange he'd release weaponry to ukraine. so trump has done this before. now, look, the oil and gas industry i think has reason to be upset with biden because he's now paused lng permits for exports, and they're upset with that. so i'm not surprised that the

oil and gas industry will be more supportive of trump. the issue again is donald trump who makes these really outrageous statements where he makes an explicit statement, allegedly, that, you know, if you support me, i'll take care of you, which is extremely problematic. >> and how he rolls. amy, what do you think? >> i think it's a good thing what the democrats are doing here because it's shining a light on the ties between the oil and gas sector and donald trump, and charlie's right that a lot of these things happen behind closed doors. but the american people have a right to know. it's about transparency. they have a right to know that these things are happening. that donald trump would basically give the oil and gas sector a complete blank check in terms of regulation in exchange for a bigger check. but let's be honest about the truth, though. this industry is booming. i mean, we have, the u.s. is

the world leader in natural gas exports. we are the biggest producer in the world of crude oil. it's not like the industry is really hurting under joe biden. in fact, under joe biden they have the best production ever. this is what you do as somebody who's running a country. so i think this is the right thing to do. and you know, democrats are just shining a light on trump's corruption and the american people ought to know that. >> we're pumping more oil than we have have before. the ceos are doing so well, maybe that's why they're in a position to write trump a big old check. i have to go to commercial break. thank you both for being here. when we come back, what really killed red lobster when the 11th hour continues.

why choose a sleep number smart bed? can i make my side softer? i like my side firmer. sleep number does that. now, save 50% on the sleep number limited edition smart bed. plus, free home delivery when you add any base. shop now at sleepnumber.com "9 out of 10 people don't get enough fiber" benefiber is the easy, gentle solution for every day. its plant-based prebiotic fiber nourishes good bacteria in your gut working with your body to promote digestive health.

with so many ways to enjoy, benefiber is your fiber, your way. what is cirkul? cirkul is the fuel you need to take flight. cirkul is the energy that gets you to the next level. cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your way. cirkul, available at walmart and drinkcirkul.com.

tonight red lobster has 99 problems, and closed restaurants is all of them. america's largest seafood chain filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy over the weekend. and although the endless shrimp promotion deal has taken a lot of the blame, the fault really lies in the world of private equity. lean forward and turn the volume up. ten years ago, a firm you never heard of, golden gate capital, a private equity firm purchased red lobster.

then they sold the real estate, the buildings, the property for cash. then they made the restaurants lease back the places they used to own for a lot more money. combine that with a series of bad decisions along the way, and they've gone bankruptcy. private equity does not know how to operate a restaurant business. they knew how to financially engineer one and make money for themselves. that's what happened here. for more peter speigel is joining us, the u.s. managing editor for the financial time along with barry reynoldss, chief investment office of wealth management and host of the masters in business podcast. it's a must listen on bloomberg radio. peter action people look at the story and see the headline, and many say this is a sign of the weakening economy, people can't afford to go out to eat. none of that is true. what's your take on this

story? >> it's old fashioned asset stripping. i would disagree that this is all private equity does. sometimes a failed company needs help, and they'll turn it around. >> yes, i agree with you. >> even separating the real estate from the operational restaurants is not necessarily a bad thing. but they came in, and if you look at the bankruptcy filing, $200 million a year is owed in leases to this property company that is still owned by a very profitable company. so there are bad actors in the private equity world just like any other world. this is just one example that people need to pay attention to. >> but barry, isn't this just one example of how big investor use optimization tactics and crush other industries. think of the housing markets in smaller cities like phoenix or nashville or atlanta. buying up single family properties for cash in mass, and now people can't get their

foot in the door to buy a single property. >> don't put me in a position of defending private equity, but looking at different industries, private hospitals are a perfect example. that not for profit hospitals suddenly become giant private equity profit centers. and looking at single family homes, some private equities focus on rent to own. in other words, they'll buy a house, fix it up, find a renter, help them rehabilitate their create and say here's your path to ownership. there are others that are a little more rapacious than need be, and you end up with squeezing out a lot of middle class and lower middle class potential buyers because they're sucking up all the supply. >> all right, related topic. we have a strong but complicated economy. there's a new harris guardian pole that everyone is talking about that found more than half of the americans polled think that we are in a

recession. i will give it to you, inflation is a problem. rent is high. mortgages are high. insurance is high. buying a car is high. groceries cost a lot of money. but a recession? what do you think of that? >> well, we talked about this last time on the show, joe biden is not getting any credit for what's an actually incredibly strong market. tight labor market, gdp growth. but inflation is drowning everything else out. go to the store, eggs meat. try to fill up with gas. these are the things every day americans are looking at, particularly biden voters. more middle class or working class voters showing up and have to pay the money for their gas and groceries. we've seen it poll after poll. we had our own poll last week say the same thing. and the issue for the biden administration is, and i've talked to the white house. i was there last week. um, they know that they can't win on this. it's not like inflation is going to turn around in six months and people will forget that prices were cheaper two years ago. >> but the president also doesn't control prices or

inflation. and it's not like former president trump has offered a single policy solution to address any of these things. >> they need to neutralize it though so they can talk about the other issues like democracy and the threat to democracy trump poses. >> can i call bs on a lot of these polls? >> yes, you can. >> so first, half the country thinks the stock market is falling this year? there were like 12 all time highs set this year. the market was up substantially. i found a lot of the polls to be nonsensical. who the hell is answering their cell phone when an unknown number or text comes in -- >> i don't even answer for people i know. >> there was a poll the other day that 1 in 5 people think joe biden is responsible for roe v. wade being overturned? it's 17%, almost 1 in 5. that's absolutely ridiculous. polling, let me remind

everybody, they got the trump election in 2016 wrong. they totally got the margin of victory in 2020 wrong. the red wave in 2022 politically, they got that wrong. i don't know why we think that making a few hundred or few thousand calls to people who aren't answering their phones is going to give you a representative sampleover america. >> but on the topic of prices and inflation, some prices are changing. we just saw aldi, wal-mart, target, some fast food places like mcdonald's are cutting prices to offer deals to draw in more customers. does that not tell you that maybe they didn't need to raise prices as much as they did over the last two years? >> well, the other thing, and you're 100% right after the polls, so take this with a grain of salt. the other things the polls show -- >> which is cheaper at aldi

this week. >> they show people blame corporate more than politicians for what's going on. so the message from the white house is it's not our fault, the big corporations are raising your taxes. that's very much where the american people are. so that's where you'll see the messaging. it's going to be on corporate america because that's where voters believe is the fault. >> and there's polls showing 40% of the inflation was due to corporate margin expansion. not a coincidence that we're at record highs in the s&p 500 and regard earnings highs despite the trouble we went through during the pandemic and lockdowns. profits continue to expand. at this point you're starting to see that come around. the old expression is the cure for high prices is high prices, and you're seeing it

with wendy's $3 breakfast, mcdonald's $5 happy meal, and now target cutting prices. >> and just like that they were able to cut the prices miraculously. these boys are sticking around. when we return, the taylor swift eras tour has the doj talking about break ups, and i'm not talking at taylor and her boyfriends. that's coming up when the 11th hour continues.

everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it's a great product. it's going to help a lot of patients.

hi, i'm jason. i've lost 228 pounds on golo. ♪ i think it's a great product. changing your habits is the only way that gets you

to lose the weight. and golo is the plan that's going to help you do that. just take the first step, go to golo.com. only purple's gel flex grid passes the raw egg test. no other mattress cradles your body and simultaneously supports your spine. memory foam doesn't come close. get your best sleep guaranteed. save up to $800 during our memorial day sale. visit purple.com or a store near you ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com.

all right, i want you to pay attention to this because there's a lot of misinformation out there. today attorney general garland announced an antitrust lawsuit against live nation entertainment, that's the parent company of ticketmaster. christine romans has the details. >> reporter: a legal battle ahead that could change the way millions of music fans see their favorite artists. the government suing concert giant live nation a year and a half after this. >> i'm not getting tickets. >> welcome to the eras tour. >> reporter: the disastrous roll out of ticket sales for taylor swift's eras tour. >> i didn't get tickets to the taylor swift concert. >> reporter: at the time, musician miranda hardy was shut out from ticketmaster. finally getting a ticket from a friend. >> it's incredibly frustrating to not be able to have a choice on how you're buying your tickets. >> reporter: that lack of

choice is just the justice department, 29 states, and the district of columbia are suing to break up live nation. >> we allege that live nation controls the live entertainment industry in the united states because it's breaking the law. >> reporter: live nation and ticketmaster merged in 2010, and today control 60% of concert promotions in the u.s. , about 80% of primary tickets at major venues, and a growing share of resells. the government says it's an illegal monopoly. also highlighting what it calls the ticketmaster tax. >> ticketing fees, service fees, convenience fees, platinum fees, price master fees, per order fees. >> reporter: live nation's president pushing back today on cnbc. >> we fundamentally disagree with all of these allegations. >> reporter: live nation saying the doj's suit ignores everything that's actually responsible for higher ticket prices from increasing

production costs to artist popularity to 24/7 online ticket scalping that reveals the public's willingness to pay for more than primary tickets cost. but for miranda, the status quo is unacceptable. >> i hope they're held accountable. i hope it leads to change. >> peter and barry are still here. barry, i'll turn to you first on this. for all the americans out there, who i get it, they're frustrated they can't get ticketsers can't get them at a reasonable price, if the doj gets their way, that's not going to change. prices aren't going to go down. taylor won't be less popular. >> that's right. so when you look at the rules in the united states versus what they do in europe where the secondary markets are not allowed these giant mark ups. you can't just take, you know, it's bad enough it's $65 for a ticket and then $20 in fees. you go to buy the ticket on a secondary market, it's $650. the knicks tickets were going

for $5,000 for the playoffs. >> and that's not live nation or ticketmaster. that's because in the united states we don't have rules against ticket scalping or rules on the secondary market. live nation and ticketmaster are not getting paid more money for that knicks ticket. live nation is not getting that. the scalper is. >> i know people who said it was cheaper to go to paris, fly there, see the show in paris, and fly home. >> i'm that person last week. >> this is the second time i'm disagreeing with you on the show. >> and it will be your last visit to this show. >> let's say stephanie rule, the copa cabana room you own wants us to promote a concert with taylor swift. live station says oh, i'll give you the show, but you have to use ticketmaster.

you say no, i don't want to use ticketmaster. they have a monopoly! there's only one show in town. you want to bring prices down? bring competition. you have to separate the fact that they own the concert venue, the promoters, everything. the whole thing about taylor swift, she took on spotify, she took on her own publishing rights. she never took on ticketmaster. you know why? because she makes a lot of money from ticketmaster. they promote her, pay her. the smaller level musicians can't get on concert venues because live nation blocks them. the big names get a lot of money from ticketmaster; so they dominate, they charge a lot, they get the money. i think it's anticompetitive. >> maybe that's because the small people can't get into the venues because they can't sell out an arena. taylor swift can sell out an arena, which is why big business would be in big business with her. >> but if live nation owns the

venues, they promote the acts, and they own the ticket seller, why would they have any incentive to put any mid-level artist into even a small venue? there's no competition in live music. >> you're saying it's vertically integrated. >> exactly, it's old rockefeller. >> that's the fascinating aspect because when you go back to the 60, 70s, 80s when antitrust law was previously enforced, 60% market share, that merger historically would not have been allowed. now you have a different situation where you have an existing company, how do you take the pieces apart. >> it was the obama administration that allowed this merger to happen in 2010. they did consent decrees. the administration has decided consent decrees don't work. they say we'll monitor you, but it never works. they say we'll bust up these companies, come after other

companies for the same rockefeller style vertical integration. >> what's united health's market share, though? it's not 60%. >> it's not, but they own the doctors, the insurance companies, the drug providers. there's no way of getting out of their system. and with a.i., they own your data, so they'll have a bigger mote around them as well. i think the administration is right on this. i think the reason the ticket prices are so high is there's no competition. i can't buy a sports ticket on anything other than ticketmaster. >> all right, we'll talk about a business that's not real because taylor swift's business is real, it's massive. but i want to talk about trump media stock. it was down 1% today. this company is a money losing machine. what it really is is a legal vehicle for unlimited campaign contributions to donald trump. because the company does nothing significant. they have no technological

advancements, yet the stock still trades in the 40s. what's your take on this? >> so there are a handful of companies out there that have an almost impossible to describe following, call it a cult-like following. they don't trade on their revenues, they don't trade on their profits, they don't trade on their growth prospects. they're a mean stock, they're a mania stock, and there's one reason to buy this. not because you think the company has great prospects but because you want to participate in whatever your political interest is and your relationship to donald trump. how else can you explain why the stock is even fridaying in the 40s -- trading in the 40s? >> and when he has the ability to sell his shares. >> i think people know what they're doing, and when it finally hits the fan, they're

fully prepared. >> yes, what an enormous contribution you've made to the possible next president. thank you so much for joining us. weren't they a good time? when we return, you'll want to hear this story. a philanthropist gifted some college graduates cash, but with a catch. the fantastic message about paying it forward when the 11th hour continues. i recommend pronamel repair. with new pronamel repair mouthwash you can enhance that repair beyond brushing. they work great together.

hi, i'm jason. i've lost 228 pounds on golo. ♪ you can enhance that repair beyond brushing. i don't ever want to go back to wearing a 4xl shirt or not being able to climb up stairs without taking a break. so i'm committed to golo for life.

>> i know this weather dampens your spirits. don't let it. you worked your tail off to be here. be celebratory, be proud. as you go forward, remember, take chances so you can be great. secondly, give a tiny bit more of yourself, your life will be better for it. congratulations. the last thing before we go tonight is an excellent one. a story of paying it forward

that was a man you might not be familiar with. philanthropist and boston native rob hail completing his commencement speech at umass dartmouth. >> the greatest joys in life we have experienced from come from giving. we want to share the gift of giving with you today. each of you is getting a thousand dollars cash right now. the first $500 is our gift to you. the second $500 is for you to give to somebody else or another organization who could use it more than you. share in the joy of the gift of giving. congratulations! >> it is the fourth year in a row mr. hale has given a gift like this. each time he chooses a school with a large number of low

income or first generation students. congratulations to the class of 2024, and remember, if you need help, please ask for it. and if you can give help, please give it. and i will say, i don't know about you, but i really enjoyed tonight's show. that's all for tonight. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late with me. have a great night. tonight on all in. >> samuel alito and clarence thomas are totally out of control. >> outrage is the supreme -- as samuel alito remained silent. >> in the senate, we have gavels. there should be subpoenas going