thank you for getting up "way too early" with us this friday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. a lot of people say to we today, the toughest businesspeople, people you know about, could i ask you a question? how do you do it? what? how do you get up and put your pants on? i'll explain it some day. so tired of politics. i'm od'd. you know what that means? i'm od'd on politics. i'm od'd on trump. i turn on the television, trump, trump, trump, all different stories, trump. they're driving us crazy! >> that's donald trump complaining about being in the news too much, and something about putting on his pants, during his rally yesterday in the bronx. we'll have much more from that event, which was supposed to be a pitch to non-white voters in deep blue new york city. also making headlines this morning, why ohio's republican

governor is calling a special legislative session to make sure president biden will be on the ballot this fall. and louisiana will soon be the first state to classify apportion pills as controlled, dangerous substances. we'll go through the legislation and its possible impact in november's elections. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, may 24th. we made it to friday. it was in doubt there for a while. >> thank goodness. >> i'm jonathan lemire. i'm alongside the bbc's katty kay. we are in for joe, mika, and willie. good friday morning, katty. >> yeah, news flash, donald trump knows how to put his trousers on. i think that is worth waiting for friday for. we now have that at least. >> i suppose we can put it in the appropriate context later, or we leave it out there like that and make people wonder just what he was talking about. >> hanging, yeah. >> with us to dive into this important story, pulitzer prize

winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," and msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. president emeritus on the council of foreign relations, richard haass. he is the author of the weekly newsletter "home and away," available on substack. and you saw her host "way too early," former aide to the george w. bush white house and state departments, elise jordan. great group this morning. we'll start with a story that broke on the air this time last week. louisville police chief says the department has taken corrective action against the officer who arrested world number one golfer scottie scheffler before the second round of the pga championship last friday. that as police have released new video of the incident. nbc's correspondent stephanie gosk has more. >> reporter: scottie scheffler, the number one ranked golfer in the world, teeing off at ft. worth. while back in louisville,

kentucky, police released new video of his early morning arrest before the second round of the pga championship on friday. these silent images show scheffler's car apparently being stopped by a police officer, who makes contact with it. an unrelated fatal collision had taken place earlier. traffic was blocked, and scheffler was trying to get to the country club. police say this video is moments after an alleged assault took place against a detective. according to the arrest report, the golf pro tried to drive around traffic and was told to stop by police. it says scheffler refused to comply and accelerated forward, dragging a detective to the ground. that moment was not captured in the video. according to police, the detective suffered from pain, swelling, and abrasions, but the incident was blocked by a bus. he did not have his body camera on. >> right now, right now he is going to jail. >> reporter: louisville police announced the detective, brian gillis, has been reprimanded for not turning on his camera.

according to records provided by police to nbc news, he has been disciplined six times, including two suspensions for violating department policies. as for scheffler, his attorney responding to the video. >> all the evidence that continues to come out just continues to support what scottie said all along. this was a chaotic situation and a miscommunication. >> reporter: the golfer spoke out day of his arrest. >> can't comment on specifics but my situation will be handled. it was just a big misunderstanding. >> reporter: scheffler is facing multiple charges, including assaulting a police officer and reckless driving. his lawyer says he will plead not guilty at the arraignment on june 3rd. >> the officer also reported that his pants were torn. unable to be repaired after that incident. we have a lot of pants talk already this morning. richard haass, our "morning joe" golf correspondent, we need to bring you in right away. you've been following this story intimately. the video is tough to make out, but it certainly doesn't look like much of anything beyond a

little bump, perhaps backing up scheffler's version of events, that this was simply a chaotic misunderstanding. you've been following it intimately. >> jonathan, in this world we live in, with the crime levels that we have, the idea that this police department would be focusing on scottie scheffler, who is the most religious, straight-laced person in all of golf, over this kind of an incident, because the police officer got his trousers torn -- and, by the way, forgot to put on his body cam -- this is preposterous. looks like the local prosecutors want to make names for themselves. when you saw the hearing, there was an argument over whether to postpone the arraignment, these were -- you know, 50% of all lawyers graduate in the bottom half of their class. this guy was beyond that. this seems to me to be local incompetence. if i was running the chamber of commerce, i'd be ticked off. if i was the mayor, when do you think the next time major league sports will go to louisville if they see this bush league

action? >> let's bring in someone who graduated the top half of his class, we hope, msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos. >> i apologize. >> danny, let's get to your analysis here of what you've heard so far in this case. >> so much going on. i am so glad you brought up the video of the hearing. that, to me, was my litmus test. i was already suspicious reading the police report, but once i saw the hearing, it really confirmed for me what we're dealing with here. let's start with just the polic, and the videos are helpful, but consider this. so the report goes from, detective gillis stopped subject and attempted to give instructions. subject refused to comply and accelerated forward, dragging detective gillis. wait a minute. at what point was the detective in contact with the car? that was left out. i've read a lot of police reports in my time, and police officers are trained to write reports -- not all of them and

not in a bad way -- but they're trained to write them in a way that benefits them. the big question for me is, if he had run over the officer, that would have been in the report. if the officer had been standing in front of the car and he was struck by the car as he accelerated forward, that would have been in the report. it's when they leave things out. the question for me is, you were dragged? wait a minute, at what point were you in contact with the vehicle? did you grab at it after he was already pulling away and he didn't know you were doing that? that, to me, is problematic. now, we go to the court hearing, and i'm so glad you watched that. you saw a 15-minute argument over a routine continuance request. the attorneys for scheffler were saying, "hey, we have a scheduling issue. can we do this in june, on june 3rd?" not late august, not november, not christmas. they wanted a several day continuance, and the d.a. was arguing against it. number one, the key for me is that they were saying, everyone needs to be treated the same. he's not special. that kind of language gave me

pause because, again, we're talking about a continuance request of a few days. the second thing is, in that 15-minute hearing, the d.a. crowbared in that scott scheffler traveled by private jet. >> oh. >> if that is not completely irrelevant to the question of whether or not there is a continuance request. i've never heard that raised in any normal hearing. listen, we have a scheduling conflict. yes, but the defendant has a private jet. lots of problems. >> it's like a private jet discrimination, you know, just outrageous. >> we often say celebrities get special treatment, and that's a fair argument. go back to o.j., there are plenty of examples of celebrities getting special treatment in courtrooms. sometimes celebrities get hyperfocused treatment from prosecutors. i've pointed many times to the alec baldwin "rust" case, which i think is a case of prosecutors in a small town wanting to put a trophy on their wall. right away in this case, i've seen no less than two, maybe three indicators that the same thing is going on. >> certainly, eugene robinson,

there was accusations of special treatment when scheffler was on his tee time, just two hours after being arrested. saying, that wouldn't happen for most people. the more we learn about this case -- and, let's be clear, we're only learning about it because he is a celebrity athlete -- but it seems like, even in this small moment, it speaks to a larger point about police and now perhaps prosecutorial overreaction. >> yeah, and i love it that the world of golf, right, not exactly, you know, the paris commune, right? it is ablaze with this fervor over civil liberties and police overreach. i think that is amusing. it's a good thing, you know? yes, let's take a look, golfers, at what the police are doing out there, and maybe we need some reforms. >> yeah, but i'm very glad to see the paris commune is still defending private jets, which is a good thing. >> exact.

>> i think the world is not totally turned upside down. now, the race for the white house. i wish i had a better segue. donald trump's rally in new york city last night. after spending weeks in lower manhattan for his criminal hush money trial, trump traveled uptown to the bronx yesterday to make his pitch to an area of predominantly black and latino voters. there, trump claimed that the remaining israeli hostages in gaza, whom he said are probably dead -- of course, we don't know that -- would still be alive if the 2020 election hadn't been stolen from him. he also claimed migrants were overtaking public spaces while speaking from a public park. >> many of the hostages that you're waiting for, and everybody is waiting for, those hostages, many of them are dead. many of them are dead. and it is a horrible thing. it's a horrible thing, but many of those hostages are dead. some will be alive, but many of those hostages are dead.

it is a very serious, horrible thing. it would have never happened if the election weren't rigged. right now, you don't have public spaces. they're occupied by migrants in tents. they're coming from so many places. we don't have any idea. in many cases, we don't even know what the language -- you know, you have languages people don't even know about. we're not talking about just south america countries. we're talking about countries from africa. i think they're building an army there. 29,000 people over the last -- i think they're building -- they want to get us from within. i think they're building an army. this is not -- you know, it is interesting. did you see them? they all have tents. they all have gas-fired stoves. i mean, this is not like an illegal immigrant. they're building something. they have something in mind. they cannot stay. we will immediately begin the largest criminal deportation operation in our country's

history. >> interesting to hear the cheers from the crowd there, john. we should point out, you know, there were some -- the permit had gone in for something like 7,000 people. the trump campaign is claiming that they had more like 30,000. we haven't heard of any violations of that permit requests for 7,000 yet, so that is probably more like the number. but he did manage to bring in hispanic and black people from the area into that rally. size may not have been as big as the campaign is saying. >> yeah, it'd be the first time trump ever exaggerated about crowd size. >> not a thing he does. >> never happened before. yes, he drew a sizable crowd to a deep blue part of new york city. if it is 7,000 or so, the bronx had a population of 1.4 million. it is a small percentage of people who showed up for donald trump. first, it is trump mostly attached to new york city because of the criminal trial,

though it's been on hiatus for a couple days, but that's why he is in new york and events. the campaign is trying to woo black and latino voters, and at this point, they can say they're having a little success. tell us what you think of what he's saying. is this something that is going to translate into votes in november, or is this just sort of a dissatisfaction of the choices? maybe some black and latino voters are not happy with joe biden and are casting about, looking at trump, third candidates, but will eventually come home? >> look, there are a lot of voters across the country, all kinds of voters, who are not thrilled with the voice they have this fall. that said, i think this is more a matter of people coming into the bronx from elsewhere and people in the bronx who were kind of curious at the spectacle. new yorkers love a show. he puts on a show. in terms of what he is saying,

what in the world is he saying? he's talk about his pants. he's talking about all this ridiculous stuff. it is somewhat entertaining, but, you know, it sounds to me -- i was looking around last night to try to figure out how many people actually showed up. it seems to really be in the low single digit thousands. maybe not 7,000 from the sources i was looking at. maybe fewer than that. this is kind of a blip. it is a demonstration project. he's trying to show, i guess, that he's getting some love from from time to times and latinos. i just don't think this is necessarily going to play one way or the other on the larger canvas of the electorate. i don't see a big deal. >> gene makes the point that there wasn't really the crowd that probably trump had hoped for. doesn't really seem to be the

energy either. you know, the trump show back in 2016, it was something that you tuned into a little bit because it was so freaky. now, he has lost his ability to shock because he's said so many horrible things by now, he is running low on material. these big events that, you know, previously he could command a news cycle with, he says a couple insane things and then it just drops. speaking of one of the insane things he's said lately, certainly an incendiary claim. donald trump is now trying to fundraise off a false accusation that suggests that president biden authorized his assassination during a search of his mar-a-lago estate in palm beach florida. trump sent out an email yesterday with this subject line, "biden's doj was authorized to shoot me." trump and his allies have

pointed to a recently unsealed court filing which describes a policy statement outlining the standard operating procedure by which the fbi is authorized to use deadly force if deemed necessary during any situation when a search warrant is indeed executed. it was not unique to the fbi's search of his mar-a-lago property, and it is actually intended to limit the use of deadly force. attorney general merrick garland yesterday called trump's allegation extremely dangerous. >> that allegation is false, and it is extremely dangerous. the document that is being referred to in the allegation is a justice department standard policy limiting the use of force. as the fbi advises, it is part of a standard operations plan for searches, in fact, it was even used in the consensual search of president biden's home. >> the attorney general there

makes a good point. president biden's home, the same standard applied. richard haass, obviously, you worked in government for quite some time. you're familiar with such things, but this seems like a very dangerous accusation. we're used to donald trump saying things that are inflammatory, but this one seems potential for real problems. >> what i find the most dangerous about it is it once again mainstreams or normalizes political violence. what this is part of is this larger message with his supporters. if he can say the president was prepared to kill him, as preposterous as that is, in some ways, jonathan, that empowers his supporters to go out and use force on behalf of trump and his cause. that, to me, is what's so pernicious about this. it reinforces the idea that political violence is somehow permitted. it's now entered the american mainstream. that is what is truly dangerous about this. >> the criminal justice system is full of boilerplate language. we cut and paste and cut and

paste from documents all the time. this can be something that's already on a form, or it can be something that is literally just highlighted, cut, and pasted into another document. this is part of the doj's justice manual. this is part of what they use in language all the time. i am so accustomed to seeing this boilerplate language that my eye usually skips right over it. so this is not something that is unusual. it is something that appears, as merrick garland said, as standard language, so it is not something to be interpreted as some kind of authorization to use deadly force, especially because it is so standardized. it's the kind of thing nobody would have noticed, but trump seized on it. whether in federal or state criminal court, forms are such a part of daily life that, usually, we end up referring to them by their numbers, not even by the form itself. in federal court, it is a 302. in state court, it might be something else. but this is not unusual.

criminal justice, unfortunately, is a word of forms. >> katty, what is also not unusual is that an incendiary claim made by trump is being amplified by his sycophants and supporters, marjorie taylor greene, among others, talking about this assassination plot against the former president. >> yeah, i've been thinking about the differences between the uk general election and the u.s. election that has just been called. the uk general election, i was thinking it's only going to cost us $75 million, right? it is bargain basement democracy in the uk. it is only taking six weeks, not sometimes what feels like six decades for this election to roll around. the other difference is, you do not have one candidate putting out statements to raise money, saying the other is locked and loaded against him or accusing -- keir starmer is not accusing rishi sunak of trying to assassinate him and whipping up his supporters who might have violent intentions against members of the conservative party. two very different election scenarios, but i think the

locked and loaded comment is a real indication of just how far out of most of western europe's kind of political parameters america is right now. as richard was saying earlier, it is this rather alarming normalization of violent language. we know that some of the things that lead to the demise of democratic institutions and rises of autocracy. one of the key elements of that is normalizing violent political language because it leads to a load of other things. just one more thing that is different. >> we have seen political violence. we have seen trump inspire the riot on january 6th at the capitol. talking about this perceived assassination attempt against him, let's remember, his lawyers argued he should have complete immunity, which includes potentially assassinating political opponents while in office. so this is, indeed, indeed, dangerous rhetoric. msnbc legal analyst danny cevallos, thank you for your

insights this morning. have a good weekend. still ahead here on "morning joe," donald trump touts his relationship with vladimir putin in new claims that the ex-president can get russia to free imprisoned "wall street journal" reporter evan gesh co schviz. plus, we'll go to beijing amid tightened tension over taiwan and beijing. we'll be back in 90 seconds. in .

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welcome back. 6:22 a.m. on the east coast as we turn to look at news from overseas. china has staged drills for a second consecutive day with a clear message aimed at taiwan. reuters reports that the beijing government conducted mock missile strikes today and dispatched bombers carrying live missiles in exercises designed to punish the island for, quote, separatist acts in the wake of that country electing a new president. a statement released by a branch of the peoples liberation army said it was to test the ability to jointly seize power, launch joint attacks, and occupy key areas. foreboding to the sure. joining us live from beijing, nbc news international correspondent janis mackey frayer. so good to see you this morning. so tell us more about these drills and the intent beijing is

trying to send. >> reporter: well, what china is making clear is that they don't like taiwan's 16th president who was sworn in earlier this week. in days of taking the job, they've launched these military drills that are not the heaviest or the most extensive that we've seen in recent years, but they are expansive enough to send a message, one of strong punishment according to officials. also, to serve as a reminder that china is rehearsing for what could be an eventual blockade of the island. taiwan scrambled its jets and military to be on alert, and china called its actions, quote, irrational provocation. now, the island has become accustomed to having pla jets and chinese ships doing patrols and incursions, activities that have become almost normalized in recent years.

but what we are seeing and hearing now is much sharper language and rhetoric. china's foreign minister saying, quote, "all taiwan independent separatists will be nailed to the pillar of shame in history." the escalation follows lai's speech, which i attended. he urged china to stop making threats. an important line, he said china should, quote, "face the reality of the republic of china's existence." it's that sort of language, jonathan, that positions taiwan and mainland china as equals that has offended the leadership here in beijing. anything short of endorsing china's position was, of course, going to invite an angry response. >> janis mackey frayer live in beijing, thank you so much. joining us now is the co-founder of the cyber security firm

costrike and silverado policy accelerator, also author of "world on the brink, how america can beat china in the race for the 21st century." it is available now. we've seen china buzzing taiwan, encroaching on the air defense identification zone, with ships and aircraft. the last three decades, china has been building up its military with longer-range missiles. how seriously do you take the prospect of a war between china and taiwan? >> look, as i write in the book, i think we're on a path to conflict here. it is not immediate. i don't think it'll happen this year or next. the next four to eight years, i think xi jinping is committed to taking taiwan. >> with an actual invasion? >> with an actual invasion. i don't think a blockade scenario can work because taiwan can break through it. you'll end up in a war anyway, so you might as well launch one to take over taiwan.

he wants it to happen under his watch, when he is in power. next term, he'll be 79, and they don't tend to elect their leaders into their 80s. the next eight years is going to be really dangerous. >> what does that invasion look like, though? how does that start? how does it proceed? can it be done without a blockade? i mean, because of the resupply issue, how does this work? >> you're going to have a blockade. what they've done just now in the exercise is they've completely encircled the island with 19 warships, 49 combat aircraft. the actual invasion would be several magnitudes more than that, of course. you need to bring in hundreds of thousands of troops to occupy this island of 24 million people. this is going to be a massive invasion, and i believe it'll start with an airborne assault on key installations in taiwan. the port facilities facing the taiwan strait, the airfields in taiwan, to occupy that and bring on massive amounts of troops to the island.

>> richard, what would be the hazard to the region if they wanted to defend taiwan, given the pla, peoples liberation army, now has long enough range missiles that it can strike u.s. assets in the region? how would they get close enough to defend taiwan but far enough away to keep themselves safe? >> well, there's that challenge, katty. there's also the challenge of time. china has the advantage of proximity. they potentially have the advantage of surprise. the united states does not maintain enormous forces in that part of the world, and the question is, to what extent would china create something? it is one thing to defend taiwan. it is another thing to liberate taiwan. the real question to me is our ability to get there early. that was actually the question i wanted to bring to demetri. we know what the mainland wants. they constantly talk about rejuvenation. they can't deliver high levels of economic growth, so now taiwan is the way they

legitimize themselves. what is it that we're not doing, taiwan, the united states, japan, the three critical entities, what is it that we're not doing that we need to do in order to persuade xi jinping that, as much as he wants taiwan, it would be a fool's errand to go after it? >> i think we need t engage in aggressive deterrence across the spectrum of our capabilities. certainly military. we need to expand our ability to deploy missiles and naval mines and drones. we want the taiwan strait to be able to strike the chinese armah armadas as it has crossing the strait. the name of the game for xi is keep america out of the conflict. he knows if we're not coming to taiwan's aid, he can defeat taiwan. he can defeat the taiwanese military. he is going to try to send us a message that he can ruin our economy by increasing our reliance on semiconductors produced in china, critical minerals that are refined and processed in china, that we need to manage our economy.

>> certainly, elise, we know that xi jinping has been watching the world's response to russia's invasion of ukraine, so robust at first, and, obviously, at least here in the united states, really delayed with republicans throwing up roadblocks. he has to be keeping an eye, also, on the american political system, knowing that certain candidates for president might be less inclined to intervene than others. >> no, definitely. and he is watching which candidates he -- who would be more receptive, perhaps, although i don't think that donald trump necessarily would be. demetri, i love that you cited two presidential examples for grand strategy going forward when dealing with china. you cited harry s. truman and dwight d. eisenhower. what is it about those presidents, what can we learn about how to pursue a relationship that is productive with china? >> well, since the 1940s and really through the early 1960s

with john f. kennedy, of course, we focus on another conflict with the soviet union, the first cold war, as i call it, because i think we are in a second cold war with china. we have the invasion of west berlin. kennedy in 1961 went on american television and warned america that we're going to fight for the outpost surrounded by east germany that was wanted to take in the summer of 1961. we were even going to be willing to risk nuclear war to defend freedom in that part of the city. i think the same thing is now playing out in taiwan. we have to make a case to the american public that taiwan is really important to the u.s. interest. not just because it produces so many semiconductors that we rely on in our new digital economy, but also because of its vital geopolitical position. mcarthur in 1950 called taiwan an unsinkable aircraft carrier. it is key to the domination of asia. if china takes taiwan, it'll be

able to expand its security and economic influence in a vital part of the world and diminish ours. >> okay. there is, of course, feeling in beijing that if europe and america won't defend ukraine to the hilt, why on earth would they defend people out in asia? the chinese are watching that. richard haass and jonathan lemire, authors amongst us, the pin that he is wearing is not a flag pin but book pin. we are missing a trick in the book sales. >> you have to promote it. >> that's great. >> with a pin. >> adds to the wardrobe. >> we need little book pins, yeah! and i can read. the new book is called "world on the brink: how america can beat china in the race for the 21st century." thank you very much for coming to join us. >> thank you. coming up, our next guest set out on a mission to understand the u.s. constitution by living the same way as our founding fathers in the 1700s. best selling author a.j. jacobs

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the white house on this friday morning. with many voters setting their sights on november's election, one citizen has gone back to the past to learn how to improve america's future. a.j. jacobs is "the new york times" pest selling author of the book "the year of living biblically," where he lived out a year adhering to the laws of the bible. now, he's taken a more modern and patriotic task with his book, "the year of living constitutionally." one man's humble quest to follow the constitution's original meaning. this time, for an entire year, jacobs dressed, wrote, drank, and battled like a citizen of colonial times. a.j. joins us now in something of a costume and a beverage appropriate from the times. a.j., so good to see you this morning. >> good morrow, john. >> i actually was just, earlier this week, with our fourth

grader on his class field trip to the national constitution center in philadelphia. great museum, people should visit. they make the point of how it is a pertinent living document. well, you did just that. >> exactly. i kept reading in the news that the supreme court believes that we should follow the original meaning of the constitution, from 1789. that's the conserative majority. i said, i'll take them at their word and actually try to be the ultimate originalist and live like they did back then. so i carried a musket on the streets of new york. i gave us social media and wrote with a quill pen. i quartered soldiers. the idea was to have this, hopefully, crash course in the constitution, an entertaining crash course, but also to show that the constitution needs to evolve. it can't be frozen in time. >> let's dig into this a little more. a.j., in the beginning of the book, you explain how and why you will live constitutionally, writing in part this, "i will

exercise my first amendment right to free speech but in the old fashioned way, but scratching at pamphlets with a quill pen and handing them out on the street. my right to assemble, i'll assemble at coffee houses and taverns, not over zoom or discord. if i'm to be punished, i'll insist it not be cruel and unusual, at least not by 18th century standards. thanks to the third amendment, i may choose to quarter soldiers in my apartment, but i'll kick them out onto the street if they misbehave. my goal is to understand the constitution and expressing my rights as they were interpreted in the era of washington and madison. i want, as much as possible, to get inside the minds of the founding fathers, and by doing so, i want to figure out how we should live today." >> well, i'm glad you weren't quartering in the medieval sense. at first, i was like, ah, but then i realized you went, you know, quartering in your apartment. >> yes. >> what was it like, your

sleepover with the soldiers? >> first of all, it is difficult to find a soldier to quarter nowadays. i went to times square and asked a bunch of sailors if they wanted to quarter, and it was not -- i was able to find one, a friend of a friend who was quartering -- who would be willing to quarter. my wife didn't love having a guy in our house, but he was very nice. >> how long did you quarter him for? >> my wife said three days, that's enough. but that's the third amendment. the third amendment says you don't have to quarter soldiers, but if you consent to, that's also your right. >> a.j., you said you want the constitution to adapt. it's a living document. okay, but we've only had, what, 27 amendments, ten were the bill of rights, so 17 since the inception. what is it you'd like to see? is it amendments? what is it you think the constitution needs to do to gain traction? >> great question. we need more amendments, but it is impossible to get amendments through.

>> exactly. >> with this polarized community. the founding fathers would be appalled that it is so hard to get amendments through. so you need to amend the amendment process, but how do you? it is a catch-22. the way we have to evolve the meaning as society changes is by evolving the interpretation. >> a.j., you wrote your whole book with a quill. apart from the fact that must have been a lot of ink spots and a new experience for you, what did it give you beyond the physicality of wielding a quill to write like that? >> what i learned in the book is that there are many parts of the 18th century we do not want to go back to. it was a racist, sexist, smelly, dangerous time. however, there are aspects of it that i found are worth revisiting. one is wriing offline.

i used a quill. i don't think you have to, but i loved just the way it sounded, the way it felt. it changed the way i thought. because i was not distracted by the dings and chimes of the internet. i was able to think more deeply and subtly. i shutter to think what would happen if the founding fathers had tried to write the constitution on a google doc. i don't think we would have a country. >> the book is titled "the year of living constitutionally: one man's humble quest to follow the constitution's original meaning." it is available now. "new york times" best selling author a.j. jacobs, thank you. we appreciate the hat. >> thank you. good to be on 4 noon joseph. ahead here, "the new yorker"'s susan glasser will join us with her piece, "there is literally nothing trump can say that will stop republicans from voting for him." we'll have her explain. plus -- >> burnt through $250 million?

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welcome back to "morning joe." israel is expanding its operation in the southern gaza city of rafah. the idf says it is fighting in neighborhoods near the heart of the city. this comes about three weeks after the israeli military first pushed into rafah, carrying out limited operations against hamas. according to the united nations, more than 800,000 people have left the area already. the move comes as the international court of justice is expected to rule today on a request to order israel to halt its operation in rafah. the court, however, has no enforcement power, and its warnings have been ignored in the past. cease-fire discussions are set to resume at an undisclosed location in europe in weekend. israel will send its negotiators. sources tell the sometimes that cia director bill burns will

also head to europe for those talks. it is not known if egyptian and qatari mediators will be there, as well, john. so many negotiations so far and not many of them have actually led, of course, to cease-fires. >> cease-fire, release of hostage, and news this morning of the bodies of a new more israeli hostages have been recovered. it is also official that israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu will address a joint session of congress. house speaker mike johnson made the announcement during a speech yesterday marking israel's independence. >> tonight, i'm happy to announce that we will be soon hosting prime minister netanyahu at the capitol for a joint session of congress. [ applause ] >> yes. this will be a timely and, i think, a very strong show of support to the israeli government in their time of greatest need. >> johnson had given senate majority leader chuck schumer a deadline earlier this week to sign the invitation for

netanyahu. schumer agreed to do it, despite opposition from some democrats. it's not yet known when the israeli leader will address congress or if he'll meet president biden. obviously, a lot of tension between those two men. richard haass, prime minister netanyahu addressed congress before and took a pretty partisan tone as he did so. what would you anticipate hearing from him this time around? could it impact the contours of the conflict? >> i don't think it'll be partisan this time based on my own recent meetings with him. i think what you'll see is him coming to defend israeli policy. every step of the way, to basically look at all the criticism and say what israel did was justified. how it's used force, been incredibly controlled. he'll make the arguments as best as he can to both demonstrate the u.s. and israeli relationship is strong and israel has nothing to apologize about. he is hoping it helps him here and, more important for him, helps him back home. >> it is an interesting choice. netanyahu is not the speaker who

you think, oh, this is the new coming of churchill who was really going to sell the west on continuing to support and continuing to keep the arms flowing. i'm a little spectacle that this is going to do anything but really hurt president biden and politically draw him more into netanyahu's realm. >> netanyahu wouldn't mind hurting president biden politically. another story i wanted to get to this morning. former president donald trump is now claiming that he is the only one who can get vladimir putin to release american journalist evan gershkovich from a russian prison. trump said yesterday on his social media website, that if he wins the election, the reporter would be released before he assumes office. trump added, putin, president of russia, will do that for me but not for anyone else, and we will be paying nothing. gershkovich has been considered wrongfully detained since taken into russian

espionage charges more than a year ago, march 2023. asked about the post, a spokesman for the kremlin told reuters that putin has, quote, naturally not had contacts with donald trump. katty, it can't be underscored how dangerous this is, signally to russia, hey, keep him in prison until the election. maybe there is some deal we can arrange. we know trump is not exactly a significant supporter of ukraine. perhaps that could be at play here. this is literally a chill up many people's spines when this post went up. >> yeah. we know that vladimir putin has said he would rather have joe biden re-elected than donald trump, but not many people believe that was actually what he meant. that that was just being said for kind of the cameras. gene robinson, "the post" had a history with journalists being held hostage by foreign regimes. is there anything -- donald trump's allegations aside, is there anything more the white house could be doing, do you think, to try to get evan out?

>> i don't know what. i mean, i don't know what that is. the white house has been trying to see if there is a deal. i mean, they've been making demands and requests and all the things, you know, that one does, but they've been looking for some sort of deal that would get him home. so far, it hasn't been -- there's been nothing that the russians have been willing to buy. they obviously prefer keeping evan gershkovich. it's just outrageous, and, yes, it is chilling. it's just deeply, deeply unfair and cynical and awful. of course, vladimir putin doesn't believe in journalism the way we do. he opportunity believe in the rights of a free press. he believes in power. >> richard, whatever the

validity of donald trump's truth social post, and whether or not he's had any kind of contact with moscow, does this now throw the u.s. election date into the case ofrshkovich and when he might get released? >> i'm afraid it does. he doesn't have to have contact with the kremlin literally. he just had it. it sent a signal this ought not to happen on joe biden's watch. i can imagine this is the thing putin would love to do if trump were to win, and it is a way of giving him something. what knows what would be the reward for it or the response to it. what i heard made me as uncomfortable as the rest of you, but i actually think it could turn out to be true. that this is a way of -- this is signaling without having direct contact. i think putin would be more than happy to play this game. >> we should note, former marine trevor reid, who was wrongfully detained in russia, took to social media last night saying

after he was arrested in 2019, donald trump didn't do anything to get him out. certainly our thoughts are with evan gershkovich and his family. coming up, now that nikki haley says she will vote for donald trump this november, despite his attacks on her ethnicity and her husband, our next guest writes, "there is literally nothing trump can say that will stop republicans from voting for him." that's "the new yorker"'s susan glasser, and she'll join us next here on "morning joe."

haley made this show about withholding her support, then she gave it up for nothing. she'd be the worst kidnapper. you want to see your child? send me $1 million in unmarked bills. forget it. i'll drop him off at 5:00. anyway, i'm sure it'll be worth it, and trump will reward her for it. enjoy being ambassador to those islands where the nuclear bombs get tested, nikki.

just about 7:00 a.m. here in new york city. the friday before memorial day weekend. frankly, we could all use the break. welcome back to "morning joe." it is friday, may 24th. i'm jonathan lemire. along with katty kay. joe, mika, and willie all have the morning off. elise jordan still with us. joining the discussion now, we have former white house director of communications to president obama, jennifer palmieri. she and claire mccaskill are co-hosts of the podcast "how to win 2024." also with us, staff writer at "the new yorker," susan glasser. morning to you both. for the second time this year, senate republicans voted down a bipartisan border security package that they had demanded. in a 43-50 vote with six democrats joining republicans, the gop killed the package that they helped to write, calling the renewed vote simply political theater. senate republicans killed the package initially back in

february on the orders of former president trump so he could deprive president biden of a legislative win and campaign on this issue. in a response to the bill's failure, the white house released a statement that reads in part, "congressional republicans have enough time to travel to new york to kiss trump's boots, but not enough courage to side with the american people and border patrol over fentanyl traffickers." meanwhile, independent senator kyrsten sinema, one of the lead negotiators of the bill, had this to say about why she voted yesterday against her own legislation. >> my colleagues blamed political theater for blocks action. so did i. they were right. i spoke on the floor twice in defense of our legislation. it turns out my republican colleagues were all talk and no action. today, though, my democratic colleagues have chosen more political theater instead of real efforts to solve this

crisis. all talk and no action goes both ways. >> not sure about that. that brings us, though, to this. during a house oversight commit see hearing on thursday, jared moskowitz mocked his gop colleagues for their, quote, accomplishments since taking control of the house. >> it's a little awkward when you want to disagree with someone on your side of the aisle, but i have to dramatically disagree with my colleague, ms. crockett, who used data and statistics and facts to claim that this is the least productive congress in modern history. first of all, this congress removed a speaker, okay, which has never happened in the history of the republic. that is clearly some -- that's a big accomplishment in the 118th. this congress took 15 rounds to even elect that speaker they then removed, right, which was historic in its own right.

and then they removed a member of their own party. that hadn't happened in 20 years, so kudos to them. they've had a failed impeachment of a president. i don't think we've seen that happen in a really long time. this congress did impeach a cabinet secretary, though, without meeting any constitutional threshold. we haven't seen that happen in 150 years. this congress wants to hold merrick garland in contempt and possibly arrest him. i don't think we've ever seen that in the history of the republic. we've seen a failed motion to vacate, to remove a second speaker, again, history in the 118th. and who could forget that this congress, on behalf of the american people, saved gas stoves and ovens and toasters and blenders and dishwashers from the communist grip of energy standards? so i think ms. crockett was pointing out this is the least productive. these seem to be accomplishments on behalf of the american people that are clearly historic and

may never be repeated in another congress. >> jen palmieri, the congressman's litany, too long to fit on a bumper sticker for the republican's house of re-election committee. but he's right. i mean, they have been historically unproductive and, in some ways, tearing themselves apart. just speak to us, though, as we barrel into another election year, just these scenes of chaos, scenes of unproductivity. does it resonate with voters? >> i think when you hear hakeem jeffries talk about it, it's the extreme maga agenda. house democrats in a new twist are very disciplined, and they have that as a message that i think resonates, whether it's about abortion, whether it's about propping up donald trump rather than passing the immigration bill. you know, it's a message that ladders up to a larger argument

for why you want to keep the republicans out of control of the house and also for the, you know -- also against trump. i think that that -- like, people seem to get this point. remember when president biden first went to the border a few months ago to talk about -- after the bill first failed, there was a poll after that, 63% of people thought it was the house republicans' fault for killing that bill. i think the white house needs to do another round of that probably to really reinforce. that's probably what this is about, but i think the message takes hold. >> jen, do you think there will be executive action coming soon from the white house? how necessary politically is it for joe biden to show that he is willing to do something to stop the flow of immigration, but maybe with no help from congress? >> yeah. >> he has to go by it alone. >> there's excellent reporting in "politico" yesterday on this very point about the white house's concern about immigration and crime, and they

felt like the white house has always understood that both crime and immigration were a vulnerability. i think that is, i suspect, why the senate took the vote yesterday, to set the stage one more time for the president to say, we did everything we can to pass this legislatively, and it didn't happen. perhaps take some sort of administrative action and do that before the debate. immigration is never going to be a huge win for democrats, but it is an enormous motivating factor for the other side, and swing voters are very concerned about it. it is a big issue here in the state of new york, right? they have to do something to show they get it. he's done a lot to try to get it under control, and the republicans are the ones standing in the way. to me, the bar with voters, they'll give him a passing grade at least on that. >> i recognize one of the bylines on that "politico" piece. >> really astute reporting.

>> yes, every so often. certainly, though, the white house, at times, had to spurn progressives for issues like immigration and crime, feeling that will resonate more for voters. on the republican side, katty, as jen noted, defeating that border bill that they wrote, that was simply because donald trump told them to. >> yeah, and let's see if there is any political pushback against them for doing so. i mean, the democrats certainly hope that they can point to the republicans and say they were being cynical or hypocrihypocri. let's see whether that has any fallout. susan, talking of fallout -- we have susan glasser in the studio. your latest piece is titled "there is literally nothing trump can say that will stop republicans from voting for him." in it, you write in part, quote, "in the past few days, donald trump has floated the idea of remaining in office for a third term, sent out a social media post touting the uni unified re

america will become, and promoted a conspiracy theory that the fbi threatened to use lethal force to take him out, locked and loaded. in an interview released, trump signalled he was open to restriction on americans' right to contraception, and then he later disavowed. whatever the reason, it is increasingly clear trump is having a harder and harder time articulating coherent thoughts, apparent to reporters at the courthouse where he has been on trial on criminal charges. the republican has made their peace with their leader's reckless and incoherent big mouth, both old news and perhaps the most important news of the 2024 campaign." susan, is this just the kind of ultimate reflection of america's sorting of itself, where there are very few swing states, very few people that are going to decide the election, and positions have gotten hardened on either side to the extent that it doesn't really matter

what your side says, you're never going to vote for the other camp? >> it is a remarkable thing. if you look at, say, an average of the polls over time, regardless of any individual one, what you see is basically a straight line. it's the immovable american electorate right now, and i do think it shows we've hardened into such partisan, almost tribal camps, that it is hard to find anything, whether it is an external event, a major news development, a piece of legislation passing in congress. so you have the incongruity in washington. is this a symbolic vote in the senate, and will it affect voters? donald trump is saying obscene and wild things every day. basically, nobody seems to register it. there's also the factor that is specific to donald trump, which is that after more than eight years of this, it's not only the exhaustion factor but it is the crazy, baked into the cake factor. donald trump gets a pass, i

think, from many of the most outrageous things he says, in part, because his brand is now outrage. of course, one of the challenges for us as we cover this is to maintain perspective to be able to say, wait a minute, this is really out there. it's not just words. it is connected with actions. >> susan, elise jordan here. because donald trump manages to just flood the airwaves every single day with news that could be negative about himself even, he doesn't care, it just matters that he is flooding the zone, how important are the upcoming two debates between donald trump and joe biden? >> well, you know, my view, and, you know, i'm curious what you think, as well, is just that for president biden, donald trump is, frankly, his best campaign surrogate. if donald trump can't change republicans and can't turn them off with anything crazy that he says, i do think that for biden, for democrats, having trump out

there saying these sort of outrageous, dangerous, reckless things is, frankly, some of the most effective campaigning for democrats and for biden. i think biden is very eager to put the spotlight back on trump. clearly, they seem to hope that this debate is going to do that. >> a string of progressive losses in the portland area is reinforcing a view within the white house that president biden needs to stand apart from the far-left stance on crime, as jen and i were talking about. earlier this week, progressive d.a. mike schmidt lost his re-election bid to a tough on crime challenger, nathan vasquez. the good folks at "politico" report the president's aides validate it serves as validation that it risks overwhelming the president's case for re-election. the white house banking on the idea that the voters will reward them for public efforts to crack down on immigration and boost

spending on law enforcement. and perhaps as importantly, that the liberal forces that so effectively moved the party away from those planks in 2020 won't punish the president come november. president biden reportedly backs a tougher stance, personally warning his advisors about the political ramifications of not securing the border and cracking down on crime. jen, let's revisit this topic for a moment. the second part of it. i do think the white house has made the calculation that the independent swing voters, moderates, they see scenes of unrest. you know, even though crime in most places is down, the numbers at the border have gone down for now, there is a reinforcement, images aren't great. that's why they're pivoting to the middle. i want to ask about the bet they're making that progressives will stay with them. we see real alienation about the war in gaza. we've seen the college campus protests. we see poll numbers that suggest that liberals and the young just aren't satisfied. >> yeah. i think that -- i don't know they have a choice. i think immigration, you know,

it's the motivating issue on the other side. you're not going to win those people over, but it is enough of an -- it is an actual problem, an actual issue. because there's migrants in cities all over the country, people are feeling this. it's not just an issue along the border. that is an existential -- that issue is an existential threat, and they have got to address it in an aggressive way. i think it is right. you can't half do this. it is so hard for biden to break through, you know, to susan's point. that is why i think they have to get -- fail in the congress, do something administratively, do a ton of paid media around it, have it be a focus of the debate, to try to hit home, biden has actually done a lot to deal with with this issue and republicans are standing in the way because trump wants the issue. it's not as if that means biden is going to win the argument about immigration right now, but

you're laddering up to a bigger argument against trump, right? he's all in it for himself, right? even when -- i noticed that when the president did a video about the unified reich that susan also wrote about, the trump campaign had tweeted about for a while at least, biden, his closing line was, "i'm looking out for you. all he cares about is power for himself," right? you can see, that is what they're trying to drive all this to. you know, there may be -- i'm sure they're a little concerned about what happens on the left, but they don't have the luxury of being that concerned because i think these issues, the larger issues are pretty existential. >> senior biden campaign officials i spoke to in the last day or two, the argument, trump is only out for himself, will be a through line between now and the election. there is an urgency to shake up the race that has been static for a while. jen mentioned motivating issues.

of course, motivation. of course, crime. another, reproductive rights. >> yeah, and the louisiana state senate has passed a bill that would reclassify two abortion-inducing drugs as controlled, dangerous substances. the bill passed 29-7. now, it heads to the governor's desk for signature where it is likely to be signed. the measure would make louisiana the first state in the nation to include those two abortion pills in the same category as depressants, opioids, and other drugs that could be highly addictive. the bill makes possession of the drugs without a valid prescription a crime punishable by fines, jail time, or both. pregnant women would be exempt from the penalties. in response, president biden issued a scathing statement, criticizing maga republicans for passing the bill and blaming donald trump's policies for the bill's existence. writing in part, "donald trump says that women should face some form of punishment for accessing reproductive health care.

we're seeing that play out. this is a direct result of trump overturning roe v. wade. trump says the rule laws endangering women's lives are working brilliantly." susan, we had mitch landlandau earlier, talking about louisiana, not pretending it'll be a blue state, but there is polling out suggesting that voters are -- some voters are confused about who is responsible for overturning roe v. wade. how much -- yes, this is a motivating factor. how much more does the administration need to do to make sure everyone is clear about what actually happened? >> yeah, i mean, i know the poll finding you're referring to, really extraordinary. suggesting maybe up to 20% of voters. we'll see in the end. i do imagine that millions and millions and millions of dollars will be spent not only by the biden campaign but by outside groups, making the point that

donald trump himself has claimed credit repeatedly and publicly for being the achitect of the overturning of roe v. wade. you'll see the biden campaign and others use trump's own words against him. this is an issue that, obviously, has great issue, even in states where the stats are showing questions about women and their health care. to what extent, when it is a candidate and not just a referendum about the issue itself, is that going to really effect the democratic vote for biden, specifically in the fall or not? that's going to be, i think, a key factor here. obviously, abortion politics is one of the things, right? dobbs and democracy, that's, i think, how the second gentle l man put it last year, those are

the issues this year. >> in states where there is not a specific referendum on the ballot but the issue of apportion is still in the ether, and it is joe biden on the ballot, what is the campaign's thinking at the moment about just how motivating abortion is going to be? could bit a deciding factor in some of those swing states that are close otherwise? >> yeah, i think so. i mean, michigan, for example, they passed a referendum to protect, to put abortion rights in the constitution, but it is absolutely going to be an issue in michigan come the fall. women see it's not staying -- the restrictions are not staying contained to states that either have protections or states that don't have protections, right? you see the ivf decision in alabama. you see supreme -- the decision in louisiana and know that this is -- and it is just created a nightmare for women across the country. you look at a huge chunk of the

country, now in the southeastern corner of the united states, in particular, doesn't have these rights. it is affecting doctors, affecting medical care. it's not staying contained to the states where they do have rights or don't have rights. i think people feel that their rights, their health care is under threat everywhere, and i just think it is going to be huge. >> abortion rights will be on the ballot in battleground states, including arizona and north carolina. >> yeah. >> "the new yorker"'s susan glasser, thank you so much for being with us this morning. before we go to break, an update in the donald trump criminal hush money trial, with closing arguments set to begin tuesday and jury deliberations to follow soon after. the judge in the case ruled yesterday that the manhattan d.a.'s office will not be punished for a last-minute document dump that caused the trial to start later than originally planned. judge juan merchan rejected the defense's request that prosecutors be sanctioned for releasing a flood of nearly 200,000 pages of evidence just weeks before the trial was

slated to begin. the documents were from a previous federal investigation into the matter. at the same time, new york's appellate division has upheld the judge's decision not to recuse himself from the case. trump's defense team was seeking the judge's recusal based on his daughter's work for a consulting firm with democratic clients. still ahead here on "morning joe," the department of justice is suing to break up the parent company of ticketmaster, alleging it holds a monopoly on the ticketing industry. the doj's anti-trust division will join us to lay out the case when "morning joe" comes right back. ight back

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pretty shot. friday morning on the plaza outside rockefeller plaza. a long weekend looms. of course, on monday, we'll be thinking about those who gave their lives for our country in the armed services. welcome back to "morning joe." the department of justice and dozens of states are suing livenation, the parent company of ticketmaster, claiming the company has too much control over live entertaining and ticketing. pearl jam was on this 30 years ago.

senior business correspondent christine romans has more. ♪♪ >> reporter: a legal battle ahead that could change the way millions of music fans see their favorite artists. the government suing concert giant livenation a year and a half after this. >> i'm not getting tickets. >> welcome to the eras tour! >> reporter: the disastrous rollout of taylor swift's concert. >> i didn't get tickets. >> reporter: at the time, this musician was shutout. >> finally getting a ticket from a friend. >> it is incredibly frustrating to not be able to have a choice on how you're buying your tickets. >> reporter: the lack of choice is why the justice department, 29 states, and the district of columbia, are suing to break up livenation. >> we allege livenation controls the live entertainment industry in the united states because it is breaking the law. >> reporter: livenation and ticketmaster merged in 2010 and

control 60% of concert promotions in the u.s., about 80% of primary ticketing at major venues, and a growing share of ticket resales. the government calls it an illegal monopoly, selling the tickets, controlling the venue, promoting events, and managing the artists. also highlighting what it calls the ticketmaster tax. >> ticketing fees, service fees, convenience fees, platinum fees, price master fees, per order fees. >> reporter: livenation's president pushing back on cnbc. >> we fundamentally disagree with all these allegations. >> reporter: livenation saying the doj suit ignores everything that is actually responsible for higher ticket prices, from increasing production costs to artist popularity to 24/7 online ticket scalping that reveals the public's willingness to way far more than tickets cost. ♪ that's the price of happiness ♪ >> reporter: for many iran da,

miranda, the status quo is unacceptable. >> i hope it changes. >> the assistant attorney general for the department of justice's antitrust division, jonathan cantor. thank you for coming in. this is one of those rare issues that has not only bipartisan support but multi-generational support. i feel i would like you to succeed in this. whenever i'm buying tickets for my kids, i'd like to say i go to concerts regularly. i'm in bed by 8:00, so i'm not. but when i do, i'm shocked. i feel like i'm being scammed. >> people love music. people hate monopolies. this brings those two together. >> so you have bipartisan support to try to get this done? >> we have tremendous support. we have, as your opening indicated, 30 state attorneys general, state of new york, the state of texas, the state of tennessee, state of california, and everything in between. this is an issue that units not

just americans but enforcers across the political continuum. >> if you win this suit, and as you said, we wouldn't have brought it if we didn't think we'd win it, if you win it, describe in real terms how life for concert-goers will be different after you win compared to how it is today. >> sure. ultimately, it is our obligation to prove our case in court and it'll be up to a court to determine the remedy. but the current system is broken. the current system suffers from monopoly. by removing the monopoly power, by breaking up ticketmaster, we will force change. change will be good because it will usher in -- >> what kind of change? >> new competitors, new innovations, lower prices. all of the things that flow from a healthy, competitive market. >> tickets will be cheaper, for example, that kind of thing? >> we will at a market determine the price of tickets. we will let the market determine the quality of customer service, to determine whether we need these products and fees. >> you never get up early so i guess you're out every night at

concerts, so you're much more representative of this than me. feels like a good thing for you, right? you can stay out until midnight or 1:00 in the morning even more often. >> then just go right to the studio. >> yeah. >> katty, i never get to do that. i occasionally get to a ball game, and ticketing is pertinent to that. in fact, someone was at the rolling stones concert last night, jen palmieri. >> jonathan, is there anything that can be done about -- i understand that this is about livenation and the monopoly they have created, but the scalpers and how much money -- how much a taylor swift ticket can cost in the united states versus a friend of mine is going to vienna and got them for $110. it is cheaper to go ahead and fly to austria to do that because of not just the fees but also the scalping that happens online. is there anything that -- in this suit that would address that or can be done about that?

>> yeah, there are a wide range of issues that affect ticket prices. there are a wide range of issues that affect the customer experience. we're focussed in this lawsuit on competition. we're focused on a pattern of behavior that occurs when ticket master is the promoter, the artist, and the venue, and how they can stifle innovation. but what ultimately i come back to is the system is not working, and it is not working because we don't have enough competition innovating around all of the issues you just described. >> and what's the next step here? >> the next step -- >> how soon will this move? >> yeah, well, that'll be ultimately up to a court. we filed. we'll be before a court in new york, along with our state partners. we will litigate the case at whatever pace the court determines is appropriate. >> jonathan, as a last thing, are there other, not to tip your hand, but are there other monopolies that we should be looking for for similar measures? >> well, we have an extensive

docket of cases involving big tech, big health care, big agriculture. we are focused on making sure that we are protecting all americans. we're protecting american workers, american consumers, american small businesses from anticompetitive practices by monopolies. >> assistant attorney general for the department of justice's antitrust division, jonathan kanter. thank you. a lot of americans and concertgoers cheering you on. coming up on "morning joe," the felony convictions of five retired navy officers who admitted to accepting bribes are now being dismissed because of mistakes made by the u.s. government. we'll have the latest on one of the biggest corruption cases within the military next on "morning joe."

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a federal judge dismissed convictions of five retired navy officers involved in one of the biggest corruption cases in history of the united states military.

citing prosecutorial errors, the judge made the ruling on tuesday at the request of the government. the officers previous pleaded guilty to accepting bribes from a malaysian contractor, francis, nicknamed fat leonard, who is currently awaiting sentening for defrauding the military out of more than $35 million. joining us now is investigative reporter for "the washington post," craig whitlock, who has been covering this case for years and is the author of the new book titled "fat leonard: how one man bribed, built, and seduced the u.s. navy." craig, thank you for coming in. he was described as the world's greatest conman ever. what did fat leonard actually do? >> leonard francis is from malaysia in southeast asia, and he built up from scratch, really, a business that serviced u.s. navy ships whenever they visited ports in southeast asia. if they needed fuel, food, fresh water, tugboats, you name it, he was the walmart, as he described it, for the u.s. navy in hundreds of port visits a year.

>> how was he taking the bribes then? >> he was giving the bribes and doing this to get u.s. navy personnel to look the other way so he could grossly overcharge the navy for all his services. his bribes ran the gamut. he provided extravagant meals at michelin star restaurants. he provided thousands of dollars in cash if he needed to. most famously, he provided lots and lots of prostitutes. >> even concert tickets, we were hearing about them earlier. 2015, fat leonard is arrested and put under house arrest. why wasn't he sent to jail if he was wrapped up in this navy scheme? >> he was originally sent to jail for a few years, but then he developed kidney cancer. again, leonard is one of the world's greatest conman and conned a federal judge and the justice department into thinking he was dying. so they let him out on a medical furlough under a house arrest in which he paid for his own security guards, and he paid for his own rent, and it was this crazy situation where, again, he

was stringing the u.s. government along into thinking he was cooperating with them when he was really setting up for a race for freedom. >> yeah, he slipped out of the country. he is one part of the story. the other part of the story, i think, which is more interesting in terms of this week, is the fact there were these nancy officers who were involved. what did the navy do about the realization that it had a corruption problem on its side? >> this is the biggest corruption scandal in u.s. military history. when leonard francis was first arrested, they didn't know how deep it went. the justice department investigated almost 1,000 people. there were three dozen people indicted. as my book reveals, there were more than 90 admirals who came under investigation in this case over a ten-year period. so this spread all the way up the chain of command into the u.s. navy. >> it is an incredible story. it reads like a movie script. fat leonard even managed to get the commanders to redirect the ships to the ports he controlled so that he could then make sure he had a take on all of this. >> odds are, it will be a movie

script at some point soon. >> i'm thinking. >> craig, congrats on the book and the option we secured for you. tell us, like, what has the navy done in response? let's go big picture. this was such an extraordinary case. are more safeguards being put into place? are more measures will be implemented to prevent something like this from happening again? >> there are. at the same time, there were plenty of measures in place to prevent leonard francis from doing this. there were all sorts of checks and cross-checks with contracting and people paying the bills from the navy. leonard, again, was a really cunning criminal, and he knew exactly who he had to buy off, precisely where in the navy bureaucracy, and cultivated moles who were embedded from the pentagon to the pacific command in hawaii to japan. he had moles in the navy everywhere who would rig contracts for him and provide information. he had all the procedures and

processes in place, but leonard easy circumvented all of that. >> i'm excited for this book because the fat leonard scandal keeps on giving. it is really just so insane that it all went down the way it did. can you talk about what kind of justice was reached at the end of the day for the naval officers who were involved? were lower level officers punished more so than at the top levels? >> no question. in the military, there is a saying, it's called different spanks for different ranks. that means that the enlisted sailors usually get the hammer dropped on them, and senior officers, like admirals, almost always skate away if they get caught doing the same thing. in this case, there's no question that's what happened. as i mentioned, more than 90 admirals were inveinvestigated. only one spent any time in prison. in fact, he became the first admiral on active duty to be convicted of a federal crime. it is very rare for people at the top to get in trouble.

much more common for the enlisted sailor to have to pay the price. >> just an extraordinarily sprawling and compelling tale, katty. >> clearly went right to the very top, though not much retribution for those at the very top. the book is titled "fat leonard," how one man bribed, built, and seduced the u.s. navy. craig whitlock, thank you for coming in. good luck. good luck on the movie rites. we'll be rooting for you. up next, president biden is out with a new ad slamming donald trump in his pursuit of revenge and retribution if he is re-elected for the white house. we'll play that video straight ahead. and we'll bring you the wild story of what happened to the movie subscription service movie pass. show you a look at the documentary which details how the company crashed and blew through millions of dollars. "morning joe" coming right back.

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this is simply unacceptable. ohio the running out of time to get joe biden, the sitting president of the united states, on the ballot this fall. is failing to do so is simply not acceptable. this is a ridiculous, absurd situation.

>> that was republican governor mike dewine of ohio. he is calling in state lawmakers for a special session next week to ensure president biden appears on that state's ballot this november. ohio election law requires political parties to certify the presidential ticket by august 7th, but the democratic national convention, where biden will be formally nominated, doesn't actually start until august 19th. in the past, such issues have been addressed with legislative, quick fixes, but some republicans have balked this time around. elise, take the governor at face value, this seems like a moment, increasingly rare moment, where a member of the republican party is putting the country ahead of partisan politics. >> i think governor dewine will be good for his word. i think that it shows, though, in this era, politics has just become asymmetric warfare. both sides have to identify where they could possibly get, you know, one edge, and you have

to look at that and preempt it, basically. democrats have to be very careful about it because the republicans are so ruthless, that they're going to try to look for any edge, just like with this. >> yeah, and we saw the talk about changing how the electoral vote in nebraska is going, a key, perhaps, for president biden's re-election bid. this happens from time to time, and it is usually a quick legislative fix, move on. there's no doubt who the party's nominations are, they'll be on the ballot. doesn't this speak to the toxicity of the trump era, where republicans are trying to take every little advantage, bad faith as they may be, ahead of the election, and how trump has called into question the credibility of the ballot and calling for poll watchers, who a lot of people read as people will be at the polling stations to intimidate. >> you were talking about pearl jam 30 years ago.

30 years ago in the congress, it used to be that you could get things done in a bipartisan way in the congress, because both democrats and republicans wanted to capture the middle and get something done, right? and then the structure started to change. it used to be that you could challenge on democrats, republicans banning together to make sure ballots were good, that they were readable, both candidates were on them, because both parties wanted to make sure it was easy to vote and a lot of people could vote. now you have, you know, in the maga republican party, that is not what they want. they want to make it harder for people to vote. we do not have a shared alliance in terms of making democracy work well. the way they win is to prevent democracy from working well. congressional democrats launched an investigation to determine whether former president trump made quid pro quo propositions to oil and gas executives during a fund-raising

dinner in april. the probe was initiated by the chairs of the senate finance and budget committee. trump's request for $1 billion in campaign donations was first reported by "the washington post," citing people with knowledge of the event. those sources say trump vowed to immediately reverse dozens of joe biden's environmental rules and policies and stop new ones from being passed. the senators sent letters to nine oil and gas companies seeking documents and information, including copies of any draft executive orders. descriptions of any policy proposals discussed, records, and all donations made to trump's campaign, and any materials distributed at the fund-raising dipper. the trump campaign issued a statement attacking joe biden and his energy agenda adding that trump is supported by

people who share his vision of american energy dominance. the trump campaign, john, has made absolutely no bones about the fact that on day one it plans to drill, drill, drill, despite the fact that america is producing more oil than it has for many years. but this sort of -- that when does it become bribery and when is it within the campaign finance laws. >> that is such a gray area, of course. you make a great point about the energy the united states is already producing right now. but trump and his team have said they'll roll back environmental protections put in place by the biden administration, and it seems like they're looking to help overcome their campaign finance deficit they have by turning to these oil companies. the ncaa and the nation's five biggest conferences announced last night that they have agreed to pay nearly $3 billion to settle a host of

anti-trust claims, ushering in a new era of college sports which schools can pay athletes directly. the ncaa's president, along with commissioners of the acc, big 10, big 10, and the s.e.c., released a joint statement saying they had agreed to the settlement terms. this sets the stage for a revenue sharing model that could steer millions of dollars to athletes as soon as next year, a seismic shift that would allow schools to compete using direct payments. so we've already seen this, the model had already changed the last couple of years, they were able to get licensing deals. but now this is breaking down it looks like the last significant barrier here and athletes will start to get paid. >> i mean, you look back at the justice department taking on livenation and now, you know,

this breaking down. it's like the power systems around culture, how we buy things, how we spend things and what people, how athletes are valued and what they get paid. people have been freaked about how much this change college sport, how much it has changed college sports, but now, was this expected? >> they had been working towards it. >> i was sort of like -- also, that's a big number they're having to -- that is a big deal. >> this feels like two things to me. these schools make so much money off of these athletes. athletes deserve some sort of share of that. at the same time, it is really going to change college sports. as fans, we have to wait and see what that change will look like. i cannot believe it's 7:55 a.m. and we're just now getting to the highlights to have nba playoff game in boston. >> how did that two? >> pacers led by two after the

first quarter. then in the second quarter, celtics scored the first 17 points of the period. brown knocks it down. he's got 40. >> there's jaylen brown, reaching the 40-point back on that three at the end to have fourth quarter, to match his clear playoff high and lead the celtics to a 126-110 win over the indiana pacers last night in game two of the eastern conference finals. the top seeded celtics take a 2-0 series lead on the road to indianapolis for game three tomorrow night, and tyrese halliburton might be injured. the minnesota timberwolves will try to get even with dallas in game two of their western conference finals series. still ahead here, we'll go through the latest developments in the arrest of scotty scheffler with new video of the arrest. and a report from beijing on china's provocative new drills

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that's a savings of at least sixty nine bucks. two pairs for $79.95. includes a free exam. that's not just a better deal, it's america's best. book an exam online today at america's best.com. ann, you're on mute. a lot of people say to me the toughest business people, people that you know about, could i ask you a question, how do you do it? i say do what? how do you get up in the morning and put your pants on, i'll explain it to you some day. i'm so tired of politics. i'm od'd. you know what that means? i'm od'd on politics. i'm on d'd on trump.

i turn on the television, trump, trump, trump, all different stories. they're driving us crazy. >> that's donald trump complaining about being in the news too much, and something about putting on his pants during his rally yesterday in the bronx. we'll have much more there that event, which was supposed to be a pitch to non-white voters in deep blue new york city. also making headlines, why ohio's republican governor is calling a special legislative session to make sure joe biden will be on the ballot this fall, and louisiana will soon become the first state to classify abortion pills as controlled dangerous substances. we'll go through that legislation and its possible impact in november's elections. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday, may 24th. we've made it to friday. it was in doubt there for a while. >> thank goodness. >> i'm alongside the bbc's katie

kay. we are in for joe, mika, and willie. good friday morning to you. >> news flash, donald trump knows how to put his trousers on. i think that's worth waiting for friday for. we can now have that. >> i suppose we could put that in its appropriate context later, or we just leave it out there like that and make people wonder just what he was talking about. with us, though, to dive into this important story, editor of "the washington post," and msnbc analyst, eugene robinson. president emeritus on the council of foreign relations, richard haass. and you just saw her host way to early, former state department elise jordan. a great group to carry us through this friday. we're going to start with a story that broke last week around this time. louisville metro police chief

says the department has taken corrective action against the officer who arrested world number one golfer scottie scheffler before the second round of the pga championship last friday. that, as police have now released new video of the incident. nbc news correspondent stephanie gosk has more. >> reporter: scottie scheffler, the number one ranked golfer in the world, tees off at ft. worth. in louisville, kentucky, police released new video of his early morning arrest before the second round of the pga championship on friday. these images show scheffler's car being stopped by a police officer who makes contact with it. in unrelated fatal collision had taken place earlier. traffic was blocked and scheffler was tried to get to the country club. police say this is moments after an alleged assault took place against a detective. according to the arrest report, the golf pro tried to drive around traffic and was told to

stop by police. it says scheffler refused to comply and accelerated forward, dragging a detective to the ground. that moment was not captured in the video. according to police, the detective suffered from pain, swelling and abrasions, but the incident was blocked by a bus and he did not have his body camera on. >> right now, he's going to jail. >> reporter: louisville police announced the detective, bryan gillis, has been reprimanded for not turning on his camera. he's been disciplined six times, according two suspensions for violating policies. as for scheffler, his attorney responded. >> all the evidence that continues to come out, just continues to support what scottie said all along. >> reporter: the golfer spoke out the day of his arrest. >> my situation will be handled. it was just a which is misunderstanding. >> reporter: scheffler is facing

assaulting a police officer and reckless driving. his lawyer says he will plead not guilty at the arraignment on june 3rd. >> the officer also reported that his pants were torn and unable to be repaired after that incident. so we've had a lot of pants talk already this morning. richard haass, we need to bring you in. i know you've been following this story. the video is tough to make out, but it doesn't look like much of anything beyond a little bump, perhaps indeed backing up scheffler's version of events. this was a chaotic misunderstanding. i know you've been following it intimately. >> in this world we live in, with the crime levels that we have, the idea that this police department would be focusing on scottie scheffler, who is the most religious, straight-laced person in all of golf over this kind of an incident because the police officer got his trousers torn and forgot to put on his body cam, this is preposterous.

it looks like the prosecutor want to make a name for himself. there was a hearing to postpone the arraignment. these are -- 50% of all lawyers graduate in the bottom half of their class. this guy was beyond that. and this just seems to be it's local incompetence. if i were the mayor, when do you think the next time major league sports are going to go to louisville? >> let's bring in someone that graduated the top happen of his class, danny savales. danny, let's get to your analysis here. >> i'm so glad you brought up the video of the hearing, that to me was my litmus test. i was suspicious reading the police report, but once i saw the hearing it confirmed what we're dealing with here. let's start with just the police report. the videos are helpful, but

consider this. so the video -- the report goes from detective gillis stops subject and attempted to give him subjects. subject refused to comply, accelerated forward dragging detective gillis. at what point was the detective in contact with the car. that was left out. i've read a lot of police reports in my time, and police officers are trained to write reports in a way that benefits them. and so the big question for me is, if he had run over the officer, that would have been in the report. if the officer had been standing in front of the car and he was struck by the car as he accelerated forward, that would have been in the report. it's when they leave things out. you were dragged, wait a minute, at what point were you in contact with the vehicle. did you grab after it after he was pulling away and he didn't know that you were doing that? that to me is problematic. now we go to the court hearing. i'm so glad you watched that.

you saw a 15-minute argument over a routine continuance request. the attorneys for scheffler were saying hey, we have a scheduling issue, can we do this in june, on june 3rd? not late august, not november. not christmas. they wanted a self-day continuance, and the d.a. was arguing against it. number one, the key for me is that they were saying everyone needs to be treated the same, he's not special. we're talking about a continuance request of a few days. the second thing is, this that 15-minute hearing, the d.a. crowbared in that scott scheffler traveled by private jet. and if that -- that is completely irrelevant to the question of whether or not there's a continuance request. i've never heard that raised in any normal hearing. hey, listen, we have a scheduling conflict. yes, but the defendant has a private jet. >> it's like a private jet

discrimination. outrageous. >> we often say that celebrities get special treatment, and that's a fair argument. you go back to o.j. there are examples of celebrities getting special treatment in courtrooms. sometimes celebrities get hyper focused treatment from prosecutors. i point to the alec baldwin and the "rust" case. here i see the same thing going on. >> there was accusations of special treatment when scheffler was on his tee time two hours after being arrested. but we are learning about this case because he is a celebrity athlete. but it sure seems like, even in this small moment, it speaks to a larger point about police and now perhaps prosecuor overreaction. >> i love that it's golf, not the paris commune, the world of

golf is now ablaze with this fervor of civil liberties and police overreach. i think that's amusing. and it's a good thing, you know. let's take a look, golfers, at what the police are doing out there, and maybe we need some reforms. >> i'm very glad to see the paris commune is still defending private jets. that's a good thing. the world is not totally turned upside down. so from one rather extraordinary story to another. now to the race for the white house. and donald trump's rally in new york city last night. after spending weeks in lower manhattan for his criminal hush money trial, trump traveled uptown to the bronx yesterday to make his pitch to an area of predominantly black and latino voters. there, trump claimed the remaining israeli hostages in gaza, who he said are probably dead, would still be alive if

the 2020 election hadn't been stolen from him. he also claimed migrants were overtaking public spaces while speaking from a public park. >> many of the hostages that you're waiting for, and everybody's waiting for, those hostages, many of them are dead. many of them are dead. and it's horrible thing. it's a horrible thing. but many of those hostages are dead. some will be alive, but many of them are dead. it's a very serious, horrible thing. it would have never happened if the election weren't rigged. right now, you don't have public spaces. they're occupied by migrants in tents. they're coming from so many places, we don't have any idea, in many cases, we don't even know their language. we have languages you don't even know about. we're not just talking about south american countries, but countries from africa. i think they're building an army. there are 29,000 people over the last -- i think they're

building -- they want to get us from within. i think they're building an army. this is not -- you know, it's interesting. did you see them? they all have tents. they all have gas-fired stoves. this is not an illegal immigrant. they're building something. they have something in mind. they cannot stay. we will immediately begin the largest criminal deportation operation in our country's history. >> it will be interesting to hear the cheers from the crowd there, john. we should point out, there were -- the permit had gone in for something like 7,000 people. the trump campaign is claiming they had more like 30,000. we haven't heard of any violations of that permit request for 7,000 yet. so that is probably more like the number. but he did manage to bring in hispanic and black people from the area into that rally. size may not have been as big as the campaign is saying.

>> yeah, the first time trump ever exaggerated about crowd size. >> not a thing he does. >> we should note that yes, he drew a sizable crowd there to a deep blue part of new york city. the bronx, of course, has a population of 1.4 million, so it's a small percentage of people who showed up for donald trump. but eugene, it's trump attached to new york city because of the criminal trial, that's why he's been in new york and doing some events. it is making a pitch, the campaign is trying to move some black and latino voters, and they can point to poll numbers saying they're having at least at this point in the race, some success. tell us, though, what you think of what he's saying, is this going to translate into votes in november, or is this just sort of a dissatisfaction of the choices? maybe some black and latino voters are looking at trump but

will eventually come home? >> look, there are a lot of voters across the country, all kinds of voters, who are not thrilled with the choice they have this fall. that said, i think this is more a matter of people coming into the bronx from elsewhere, and people in the bronx who were kind of curious at the spectacle. a new yorker loves a show, and he puts on a show. but in terms of what he's saying, what in the world is he saying? he's talking about his pants, all this ridiculous stuff. and it's somewhat entertaining. but, you know, it sounds to me -- i was looking around last night to figure out how many comedy people showed up. it seems to be in the low single digit thousands. maybe not 7,000 from the sources i was looking at. maybe fewer than that. so, i think this is kind of a blip.

it's demonstration project. he's trying to show, i guess, that he's getting some love from african americans and latinos. i just don't think this is necessarily going to play one way or the other on the larger canvas of the electorate. i just don't see a big deal. coming up, attorney general merrick garland hits back after donald trump claims that the biden administration authorized the fbi to use deadly force against him during a search of his mar-a-lago property. we'll show you those new comments next on "morning joe."

donald trump is now trying to fund-raise off of an accusation that suggests that joe biden authorized his assassination during a search of his mar-a-lago estate in palm beach, florida, nearly two years ago. the former president sent out an email to members on his mailing list with this subject line. biden's doj was authorized to shoot me. trump and his allies have pointed to a recently up sealed court filing, which describes a policy statement outlining the standard operating procedure by

which the fbi's authorized to use deadly force if deemed necessary when a search warrant is executed. it was not unique to the fbi's search of his mar-a-lago property, and it's intended to limit the use of deadly force. attorney general merrick garland yesterday called the allegation extremely dangerous. >> that allegation is false, and it is extremely dangerous. the document that is being referred to in the allegation is the justice department's standard policy limiting the use of force. as the fbi advises, it is part of the standard operations plan for searches, and, in fact, it was even used in the consensual search of joe biden's home. >> the attorney general there makes a good point, that joe biden's home same standard applied. so you worked in government for

quite sometime. you're familiar with such things, but this seems like a very dangerous accusation. we're used to donald trump saying things that are inflammatory, but this one seems to potential have real problems. >> what i find the most dangerous about it is it once again main streams or normalizes political violence. this is part of a larger message with his supporters. if he can say the president was prepared to kill him, that in some ways, jonathan, empowers his supporters to go out and use force on behalf of trump and his cause. that to me is what is so pernicious about this. it reinforces that political violence is somehow permitted. it's now entered the american main stream. that is what is truly dangerous about this. >> the criminal justice system is pull of boilerplate language. we cut and paste and cut and paste from documents all the time. this can be something that's already on a form or it can be something that's literally just

highlighted, cut, and pasted into another document. this is part of the doj's justice manual. this is part of what they use in language all the time. i am so accustomed to seeing this boilerplate language that my eye usually skips over it. so this is not something that is unusual. it's something that appears as merrick garland says, as standard language. so it's not to be interpreted as authorization to use deadly force, especially because it is so standardized. it's the kind of thing that i think nobody would have noticed, but trump seized on it. look, whether you're in federal or state criminal court, forms are such a part of daily life that usually we end up referring to them by their numbers, not even by the form itself. federal court, it's a 302. in state court, it might be something else. this is not unusual criminal justice. it is a world of forms. >> what is also not unusual, an

incendiary claim are being amplified by his sycophants. >> yes, i've been thinking about the differences between the uk general election and the u.s. election that has just been called. the uk general election, it's only going to cost us $75 million. it's bargain basement democracy. it's only going to take six weeks, not what feels like six decades. the other difference is you do not have one candidate putting out candidates to raise money saying the other is locked and loaded against him, or accusing -- they're not accusing rishi sunak of trying to assassinate his opponents and whipping up opponents. so two very different election scenarios. but i think that locked and loaded comment is a real education of just how far out of

most of western europe's kind of political parameters america is right now. and as richard was saying earlier, it is this rather alarming, normalization of violent language. we know that some of the things that lead to the demise of democratic institutions. one of the key elements is normalizing violent political language, because it leads to a whole load of other things. so just one more thing is different. coming up, for a second day in a row, china is staging mock missile strikes on taiwan. we'll bring you the latest from beijing amid heightened tensions in the region. in the region.

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china has staged drills for a second consecutive day with a message aimed at taiwan. the beijing government conducted mock missile striks today and dispatched bombers carrying live missiles, an exercise designed to punish the island for

"separatist acts. "in the wake of that country electing a new president. a statement released by a branch of the people's liberation army said the drills were to test the ability to jointly seize power, launch joint attacks, and occupy key areas, forboding to be sure. joining us live from beijing, nbc news international correspondent janis mackey frayer. so tell us more about these drills and the intent beijing is trying to send. >> reporter: well, what china is making clear is that they don't like li ching, sworn in as taiwan's 16th president earlier this week. and within days of taking the job, they've launched these military drills that are not the heaviest or the most extensive that we've seen in recent years, but they are expansive enough to send a message, one of strong punishment according to

officials. and also to serve as a reminder that china is rehearsing for what could be an eventual blockade of the island. taiwan has scrambled its jets and military to be on alert, and officials there have called china's actions "irrational provocation. "the island has been accustomed of jets and ships doing patrols and incursions, but what we are seeing and hearing now is much sharper language and much sharper rhetoric. china's foreign minister saying "all taiwan independent separatists will be nailed to the pillar of shame in history." and the escalation follows li's inauguration speech, where he affirmed taiwan's sovereignty and also urged china to stop making threats. an important line in that

speech, he said china should "face the reality of the republic of china's existence." and it's that sort of language, jonathan, that positions taiwan and mainland china as equals that has offended the leadership here in beijing. and anything short of endorsing china's position was, of course, going to invite an angry response. >> janice mackie frayer, thank you so much. joining us is co-founder of silverado policy accelerator, his book is titled "world on the brink, how america can beat china" and it's available now. dmitri, we've seen the chinese buzzing taiwan, encroaching on this air defense identification zone, with both ships and aircraft. for the last 30 years, china has been building up its military with longer range missiles.

how seriously do you take the prospect of a war between china and taiwan? >> look, as i write in the book, we're on a path to conflict. it's not immediate, but the next four to eight years, i think xi jinping is committed to taking taiwan, and i think -- >> with an actual invasion? >> with an invasion, because i don't think the blockade scenario can work, so you're going to end up in a war any way, but he wants this to happen under his watch, while he's in power. in 2032, he'll be 79, may not get another turn. so the next eight years is going to be dangerous. >> what does a china invasion look like? how does that start? how does it proceed? and can it be done without a blockade because of the resupply issue if >> what they have done just now in this exercise is encircled

the island with 19 warships, 49 combat aircraft. you're going to need to bring in hundreds of thousands of troops to occupy this island. i believe it's going to start with an airborne assault on key installations, on the port facilities facing the taiwan strait, to try to occupy that and bring in massive amounts of troops onto the island. >> richard, what would be the hazard for u.s. forces in the region? if they wanted to try to defend taiwan, given the people's liberation army has long enough range missiles that it can strike u.s. assets in the region, how would they get close enough to defend taiwan, but far enough away to keep themselves safe? >> well, there's that challenge, and there's also the challenge of time. china has the advantage of proximity. they potentially have the challenge of surprise. and the united states does not maintain enormous forces in that

part of the world, and the question is to what extent could china create some -- it's one thing to defend taiwan, another thing to liberate taiwan. the real question is our ability to get there early. that was the question i wanted to bring to dmitri. we know what mainland china wants, they talk about rejuvenation. taiwan is the way they legitimize themselves. what sit that we're not doing, taiwan, the united states, and japan, what are we not doing that we need to do to persuade xi jinping that as much as he wants taiwan, it would be a fool easter rand to go after it? >> we need to engage in aggressive deterrence across the entire spectrum. military, we need to expand our ability to deploy missiles and naval mines and drones. we want the taiwan strait to

strike the chinese armada as it crosses the strait. the name of the game for xi is to try to keep america out of this conflict, because he know it is we're not coming to taiwan's aid, he can defeat taiwan and the taiwanese military. so he's going to try to send us a message that he can win our economy by increasing our alliance on semiconductors produced in china, critical minerals and others that are refined and processed in china and we need to manage our economy. >> and certainly, we know that xi jinping has been watching the world's response to russia's invasion of ukraine. so robust at first, and then obviously delayed with republicans throwing up roadblocks. he has to keep an eye on the american political system, knowing that certain candidates for president might be less inclined to intervene than others. >> definitely, and he's watching which candidates -- who would be more receptive perhaps, although

i don't think that donald trump necessarily would be. dmitri, i love that you cited two presidential examples for bringing strategy going forward dealing with china. you cited harry s. truman and dwight d. eisenhower. what can we learn about how we can pursue a relationship that's productive with china? >> well, since the 1940s, and really through the '60s, also with john f. kennedy, of course, we focused on another conflict with the soviet union, the first cold war as i call it, because i think we are in a second cold war with china. we focused on the china-soviet invasion of west berlin. president kennedy in 1961 warned america that we're going to fight for this outpost surrounded by east germany that khrushchev wanted to take in 1961 and we're going to risk nuclear war to defend freedom in

that part of the city. i think the same thing is now playing out in taiwan, where we have to make a case to the american public that taiwan is really important to the u.s. interest, not just because it produces so many semiconductors that we rely on, but also because of its vital geopolitical position. general mccarthur in 1950, called taiwan an unsinkable aircraft carrier. the china takes taiwan, it can expand its security and economic influence in a vital part of the world. coming up, our next guest set out on a quest to understand the u.s. constitution by living the same way as our founding father in the 1700s. he joins us straight ahead on "morning joe." oe."

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with many voters setting their sights on november's election, one citizen has gone back to the past to learn how to improve america's future. a.j. jacobs is "the new york times" best selling author of the book "the year of living biblically" which he lived out an entire year living out the laws of the bible. now he's undertaken a more modern and you could say patriotic task with his new book "the year of living constitutionally, one man's humble quest to follow the constitution's original meaning." for an entire year, he dressed, wrote, drank, and even battled like a citizen of colonial times. a.j. joins us now with something of a costume and a beverage appropriate from that time. a.j., so good to see you this

morning. >> good morning, john. >> i actually was just at -- earlier this week with our fourth grader to the national constitutional center in philadelphia, and they make the point how it's such a pertinent document. you did that. >> exactly. i kept reading in the news that the supreme court believes that we should follow the original meaning of the constitution from 1789. and i said let me take them at their word and try to be the ultimate originalist, and live like they did back then. so i carried a musket on the streets of new york. i gave up social media and wrote with a quill pen. i quartered soldiers. the idea was to have this hopefully a crash course, an entertaining crash course in the constitution. but also to show that the constitution needs to revolve. it can't be frozen in time.

>> so let's dig into this a little more. in the beginning of the book, you explain how and why you will live constitutionally, writing in part this -- >> well, i'm glad you weren't

quartering in the medieval sense. then i realized you meant quarter in your apartment. so what was it like, your sleepover with these soldiers? >> first of all, it's very difficult to find a soldier to quarter nowadays. i went to times square and asked a bunch of sailor it is they wanted to quarter, and it was not -- i was able to find one, a friend of a friend, who was quartering -- who would be willing to quarter. my wife didn't love having a guy in our house, but he was very nice. >> how long did you quarter him for? >> my wife said three days, that's enough. but i felt that's the third amendment. the third amendment says you don't have to quarter soldiers. but if you consent to, that's also your right. >> you said you want the constitution to adapt. it's living document. okay, but we've only had 27 amendments, ten with the bill of rights. so 17 since the inception. what is it you would like to see, is it amendments? what is it you think the constitution needs to do to gain

traction? >> great question. we need more amendments, but it's impossible to get amendments through in this polarized community. the founding fathers would be appalled that it was -- it's so hard to get amendments through. so you need to amend the amendment process, but it's a catch 22. so the way that we have to evolve the meaning, as society changes, is by evolving the interpretation. >> so a.j., you wrote your whole book per the era, of course, with a quill. apart from that, there must have been a lot of ink splots and deleting things. what did it give you beyond the physicality beyond the ability of a quill to write like that? >> what i learned in the book, there are many parts of the 18th century we do not want to go back to. it was a racist, sexist, smelly,

dangerous time. however, there are aspects of it that i found are worth revisiting. one is writing offline. i've used a quill, i don't think you have to, but i loved just the way it sounded, the way it felt. and it changed the way i thought, because i was not distracted by the dings and chimes of the internet. i was able to think more deeply and subtly. and i shutter to think what would happen if the founding fathers who tried to write the constitution on a google doc. i don't think we would have a country. >> book is titled "the leer of living constitutionally." it is available now. "new york times" best selling author a.j. jacobs, thank you. we appreciate it. >> thank you. good to be on forenoon joseph. coming up, the biden campaign is out with a new ad this morning that features some help from a hollywood heavyweight. we'll play that new commercial for you next on "morning joe." o"

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welcome back to "morning joe." it appears israel is expanding its operation in the southern gaza city of rafah. the idf says it's now fighting in neighborhoods near the heart of the city. this comes about three weeks after the israeli military first pushed into rafah. according to the united nations, more than 800,000 people have left the area already. the international court of justice is expected to rule today on a request to order israel to halt its operation in rafah. the court, however, has no enforcement power, and its rulings have been ignored in the past. cease-fire negotiations are set

to resume this weekend. sources tell the "new york times" that cia director bill burns will also head to europe for those talks. it's not known if egyptian or qatari leaders will be there as well. so many negotiations so far and not many of them have led to cease-fires. >> the bodies of a few more israeli hostages have been recovered. benjamin netanyahu will address congress. house speaker mike johnson made the announcement. >> we will soon be having prime minister netanyahu at the capitol for a joint session of congress. this will be a timely and strong show of support to the israeli government in their time of

greatest need. >> johnson had given majority leader chuck schumer to sign. he agreed to do it. prime minister netanyahu has addressed congress before and took a pretty partisan tone as he did so. what would you anticipate hearing from him this time around? >> i think you'll see him coming here to demonstrate israeli policy every step of the way and say how what israel did is justified. he'll make arguments to demonstrate the u.s./israeli relationship is strong and he has nothing to apologize about.

>> it's an interesting choice, because netanyahu is not the speaker who you think, oh, this is the new coming of churchill, who is really going to sell the west on continuing to support and keeps the arms flowing. i'm a little skeptical this is going to do anything but hurt president biden and politically draw him more into netanyahu's realm. former president trump is now claiming that he's the only one who can get vladimir putin to release american journalist evan gershkovich. he says if he wins the election, the reporter would be released before he even assumes office. he said the president of russia

will do that for me but not for anyone else. gershkovich was taken into custody on espionage charges. a spokesman for the kremlin says putin has naturally not had contact with donald trump. it can't be underscored how dangerous this is to russia, to signal, keep him in prison until the election. maybe there's some kind of deal we could arrange. this literally sent a chill up a lot of people's spines when this post went up. >> we know vladimir putin has said he would rather have joe biden in office than donald trump. the post has had a history of journalists being held hostage by foreign regimes.

is there anything more that the white house could be doing? >> i don't know what that is. the white house has been trying to see if there is a deal. they've been making demands and requests. they've been looking for some sort of deal that would get him home. so far it's been nothing the russians have been willing to buy. it's just outrageous. yes, it is chilling, but it's deeply unfair and cynical and awful. of course, vladimir putin doesn't believe in journalism

the way we do or the right to a free press. he believes in power. coming up, former president trump is set to speak at a national party convention this weekend, but not the one for republicans. we'll be joined by the former chairperson of the libertarian national committee straight ahead on "morning joe." why choose a sleep number smart bed? can it keep me warm when i'm cold? wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. can i make my side softer? i like my side firmer. sleep number does that. can it help us sleep better and better? please? sleep number does that. 94 percent of smart sleepers report better sleep.

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former president trump complained about a request he says biden's team made. >> we have the debates. i didn't know we're sitting at tables. i said, no, let's stand. but they want to be sitting at a table. so we'll be sitting at a table. >> i can see why he would want to stand, because you sit him at a table and two minutes later he is out cold. welcome to the fourth hour

of "morning joe." it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. on the east coast. joining the discussion we have the reverend al sharpton and mark murial. we knew trump was out of control when he was president, then he lost the 2020 election and snapped, desperately trying to hold onto power. now he's running again, this time threatening to be a dictator to terminate the

constitution. >> if i don't get elected, it's going to be a bloodbath. >> trump wants revenge, and he'll stop at nothing to get it. i'm joe biden and i approve this message. >> you get robert de niro voicing an ad like this. what difference does it make in terms of swing voters, in terms of donors having celebrity voice ads like that? >> it's incredibly important. it does break through. robert de niro two-time academy award winner. he's from new york. he epitomizes the ultimate ability to draw contrasts with a fellow new yorker. we also want to make sure that the american people understand that as bad as a trump presidency was in the first go around, it will be even worse in the second go around.

he's made it clear he wants to rule like a dictator. he's made it clear if he loses this election, it will be a bloodbath. he's made it clear he's going to use a second term not to fight for the american people, but to seek revenge on his political enemies. we want to make sure the american people truly understand what's at stake. you're going to see a lot more of this contrast coming from us between now and the election. >> i wanted to ask you about this idea of trump amnesia. some in the biden world have grown frustrated that so many americans don't really remember, it seems, what it was lightning under donald trump. this ad is meant as a reminder. but how do you break through that fog, when people don't remember the hard moments?

>> there's a couple of different ways we're going to make sure the american people understand how dangerous donald trump is. number one, we are laying infrastructure in the states that donald trump's campaign is not laying. we've spent millions on hiring staff, opening up offices, running ads in key battleground states. the infrastructure we're laying will make a huge difference in not only a close election, but so that voters truly understand what's at stake. our campaign chair issued a memo laying out between now and june 27th, the first debate in atlanta of course, sort of what our plan is to take the message to the states, continue to draw that contrast between donald trump and the american people to make it clear that president biden is not only someone who that fighting for the american

people during his first term as president, but he'll continue to fight for the american people, lowering drug costs, getting manufacturing jobs into place, making sure that he's continuing to work to lower prices for american families. that is what he is fighting for. donald trump, again, trying to seek political retribution and revenge on his political enemies. president biden is extremely excited for the june 27th debate. he's got a lot of questions to ask donald trump. why did you put three supreme court justices on who you knew were going to overturn roe and not allow women to make reproductive decisions about their body? why are you using this time to seek political revenge? he's looking forward to that debate. we're looking forward to making sure the american people truly understand what is at stake in

this election? >> yesterday the louisiana legislature made a motion to criminalize abortion medication. a lot of people think maybe the campaign is relying too much on abortion as an issue to motivate voters to turn out, but how do you think about abortion rights and how it fits into the campaign? >> let's take a step back here. we worked on hillary clinton's campaign in 2015 and 2016. we knew there was always the possibility that if donald trump won, our reproductive rights could be taken away. they were taken away because he put justices on the court who would not allow roe to stand. i don't think we can talk enough about this. let's look at what just happened in louisiana.

women can be locked up in prison for ten years for taking an abortion drug. we're also talking about other issues. president biden has been taking his economic message to the road. he was just in wisconsin talking about the tens of thousands of jobs he's created under his presidency since he's been there. donald trump said he was going to create all these jobs that never came to fruition. i don't think you can talk enough about women's reproductive rights. i always looked to my college girlfriends as my barometer in terms of what's breaking through. they vote every election cycle but they don't always tune in until the last few months. they've been talking about losing roe, losing their reproductive rights, their daughters have less rights than

they had, ivf being at risk, women's contraception being at risk. it's truly, truly frightening. >> adrienne elrod, thank you. donald trump had a rally in new york city last night. after spending weeks in lower manhattan for his criminal hush-money trial, he traveled to the bronx to make his pitch to predominantly black and latino voters. >> we had the greatest economy in history. i was getting calls from the radical left can we get together? because everybody had the best they've ever had. african-american jobs were the best in history.

asian-american, the best in history. hispanic, the best in history. women, people with a diploma, people without a diploma. >> plenty of that is not true, reverend al sharpton. >> none of it's true. >> let's talk about what he's trying to do here. he's not going to win the bronx or new york state, but he is making a real pitch for black and latino voters. polls show he's made some inroads. do you think it could work? >> no. i think he had an underwhelming rally yesterday. they projected 7,000. that's not even half of madison square garden. a city of 8 million people, we

get much more than that when we do our marches on washington. i wouldn't brag about 7,000 people there that could jst walk up the block and come to a rally. when you look at the substance, black unemployment is lower now than it's been in 50 years. what is he talking about? black and hispanic unemployment skyrocketed during the pandemic that donald trump said don't take seriously. if anything, he may have record unemployment numbers given the pandemic. tomorrow we mark the anniversary of george floyd's killing. i did every eulogy at his funeral. i was intimately involved and still am with the george floyd family. donald trump was president during george floyd. he did nothing but two dramatic acts. one he cleared out protesters in

front of a church, held up a bible. he said when the looting starts, the shooting starts. people concerned about urban strife and urban violence, there were riots all over the country that many of us had to say that's not the way we want it and not the way the family wants it. he could not contain it. george floyd is a reminder of donald trump that he does not know how to deal with law and he certainly didn't establish order. >> my thoughts are that people need to be aware of drive-by politics. i doubt donald trump will ever come back to the bronx. people need to be aware that this is nothing but drive-by

politics. if you look at the facts, donald trump left a recession behind, 15 million people out of work, schools closed, businesses closed. instead of embracing solutions to the pandemic, he denied it. he claimed it was something foisted on him. the last republican presidents have left recession behind that clinton, obama and now biden have had to clean up. people need to understand the long gain that this election will certainly put into play a distinction between economic policy. on the george floyd day of remembrance, a tragic moment in american history, but a moment of uprising, a moment of awareness. four years later we still do not

have a police accountability bill that's passed congress. some states like maryland, a biden executive order, stronger efforts at prosecutions by the attorney general and the division of civil rights have certainly taken place. many commitments have taken place. but four years later what is disconcerting is the right wing backlash to this march in this country towards racial progress, racial justice and a unified america. >> you just outline very powerfully the case against donald trump. we're months from election day. why do you think polls suggest that president biden this time around is losing support among black voters? >> i think people are in a funky mood, because of all of the atmospherics in the country. we're at war.

there's racial strife in the country. the economy, although better, is still dealing with many, many stresses. housing costs are too high. people vote and people express their views about how they feel they are doing. i think when time comes and people understand this is a choice, not a choice between perfection and something else. it's a choice of direction. it's a choice of who do you trust to lead the country in the future. i understand that stress, but if we looked at polls in may, there would not be a president clinton, a president obama and a first president trump. this is the truth. let's not get obsessed with polling at this point. i look forward to the debate the

hand-to-hand combat i think the american people want to see. >> it's true. don't look at the polls too early. there are interesting things in the polls. i'm sure we'll get into more of that in the months ahead. donald trump, meanwhile, is set to headline the 2024 libertarian national convention. this marks the first time in u.s. history that a presidential candidate of a rival party will address the convention of a party that presumably is going to nominate its own candidate. it's sparking a civil war within the libertarian party.

how did this come about? this would be like joe biden addressing the rnc convention in milwaukee this summer or something? >> it would be like that. what happened in the libertarian party in 2022, a group of hostile takeover actors from outside the party seized control of the entire national convention, took over the national committee. the chair has taken the party systemically on a hard right or even alt right turn. the first thing they did at the convention was eliminate the platform against bigotry, fight back against immigration, which is something the libertarian party had been all about. at the time we said this is a maga operation. this is an attempt to coopt and neuter the libertarian party

because donald trump is afraid of a strong libertarian candidate. with the confirmation that donald trump is now going to speak and essentially have a rally to a captive audience of libertarians is just the end of the movie. it's where we were always going to go. angela mccartel is doing this in violation of the bylaws of the party. she's currently being sued in d.c. superior court to be removed for these violations of d.c. nonprofit law as well. there's been decredentialing over the last day at the convention where long time activists and party founders are having their credentials stripped illegally in order to have donald trump rammed down our throats. >> there doesn't seem to be much

about donald trump's agenda that is libertarian. you have a rejection of the notion of deficit reduction. his policies going forward are going to be more interventionist. >> donald trump is anti-libertarian. when i was chairman of the national libertarian committee during the george floyd unrest, during donald trump's first term and probably only term, i put out a strong statement saying donald trump has nothing to do with libertarianism. his type of authoritarian right-wing control of your body, control of your life is everything we stand against. this is the first time in 24 years that i have not been a delegate to my own party's convention because the credentials committee and the people who took over do not want a real libertarian party. they want to kneecap the party

and knock us out of the race and basically force us to have a trump rally. i think this weekend you'll see the civil war will end and we will be victorious and the libertarian party will go back to being a real political party and donald trump will get the reception that he so richly deserves. >> there is a functional question that comes to mind when i hear of this civil war in the libertarian party. that is that third parties like the libertarian party usually come into being because the two so-called major parties don't represent all of what they want represented. by bringing trump in and in many ways trying to combine the parties, doesn't it eliminate the need for a libertarian party? i mean, how does the libertarian party then later justify its being if it is overtaken and

becomes perceived to be a merger with the republican nominee? >> you have hit it right on the head. it is going to be an existential fight. if the libertarian party is successfully given to maga and sacrificed on the altar of a donald trump reelect, then it will cease to exist as an independent party that is neither left nor right, but something different. what angela mccartel has right now is authority. she has the power to basically put donald trump on stage of our presidential candidate's debate for the nomination, but she doesn't have the power to make libertarians like it. one thing libertarians are famous for is we're individualists and we really don't like being told what to do. it's backfiring already. there are even more lawsuits.

we're very hard to manage. >> don't like being told what to do by your chairman of your own party or by a former president either. former chairman of the libertarian party and still fighting, nicholas, thank you very much. a new era dons for the ncaa, paying completes directly. a multibillion dollar settlement is paving the way for the first revenue sharing plan for college athletes. taylor swift is taking to europe and having an unprecedented impact on travel. l

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6:26 a.m. out west, beautiful shot of seattle, the home of the university of washington. and there is a seismic shift now in college sports. the ncaa has reached an agreement paving the way for schools to pay student athletes. christine romans has the details. >> overnight, a revolution in college sports. the ncaa has always viewed student athletes as amateurs, but college sports have exploded in popularity, becoming a multibillion dollar business and launching superstars. >> your new all-time ncaa leading scorer caitlin clark. >> athletes have been speaking out for years. >> i think they should be paid some portion of money so their basic needs are taken care of. >> now the ncaa announcing a historic agreement allowing schools to pay division i

players for the first time in 100 years. the acc, big ten, big 12, pac-12 and the sec all agreeing to pay $3 billion in damages to current and former athletes who were prevented from earning endorsement money and broadcast revenues. it's all part of a settlement in three anti-trust cases. >> this is a huge win for athlete advocates. >> the settlement also includes a groundbreaking revenue sharing plan for future stars allowing over 300 division i schools to share up to $20 million per year with athletes. the ncaa calling the step an important reform in college sports. this is just the latest major domino to fall in college athletics with the ncaa in recent years letting athletes

receive academic bonuses as well as allowing them to profit from their name, image and likeness, opening the way for endorsement deals for athletes i every college sport. >> you see these schools making an extraordinary amount of money off of these athletes. most of these athletes are on scholarship, but they weren't being paid beyond that. some come from very impoverished backgrounds. is this fair? >> absolutely, i think it is. first of all, why do you pay anyone in sports? one, because of their ability and, second, because they generate revenue. these athletes generated revenue. they ought to be paid from what they are able to attract. those of us that have advocated this for years saying you can't take for granted just because they are on scholarship, which

means they also have to keep up their academic skills, that their other skills does not come with training, with discipline, but why shouldn't they be paid for that? they're selling tickets for you. this was a civil rights issue from my vantage point. it's almost like a plantation. you're working and the bosses are the ones that get all of the revenue. this is definitely a step in the right direction. >> big, big money. that's our segue to the next story that you have. welcome to swift nommics. she is taking over europe. >> reporter: for those traveling

this holiday weekend, it could be one of the busiest memorial days ever, in part, thanks to taylor swift and her eras tour currently dancing through europe. some major airlines are reporting a surge in trips to cities hosting the pop sensation as her notoriously loyal fans crisscross the world. the number of passengers traveling to lisbon and madrid is up 20%. >> we're seeing increases for every show in europe. >> this father/daughter duo is flying to lisbon to see swift for the first time. >> even including the airfare here, it's still cheaper than seeing her here in the u.s. it's pretty quiet. >> it literally is taking flying

around the world to see taylor swift. >> yes, but as far as i'm concerned it's worth it. >> tickets and flights are costing them around $4,000. that's still less than a pair of resale tickets for swift's tour in the u.s. this fall. stockholm temporarily changed its name to swiftholm. in the united kingdom, liverpool is dotting the city of 11 art installations in honor of each era in the show. swift's boyfriend travis kelce gushing about new set on his podcast. >> it is absolutely unbelievable. i enjoyed every bit of it. >> as swifties around the world gear up for a not so cruel summer. >> singapore just reported that its economy rose in the first quarter, all thanks to taylor swift as well.

i'm still getting over the idea that you came onset this morning having gone to a rolling stones concert last night. for all of the haters out there saying 2015 has peaked, she shows no signs of stopping being this massive commercial juggernaut. >> there's always been a cap on women making money in sports, women making money in culture, because people did not see a return in revenue. it was like, well the wnba players don't make as much as the nba players because they're not generating the kind of revenue. the success of taylor swift last

summer is this huge sign the glass ceiling has been broken. it means businesses are going to invest in women in sports and entertainment. that's what holds people back now. >> extremely important point. coming up next, a breakthrough discovery in cancer research has helped our next guest answer qquestions. questions. no other mattress cradles your body and simultaneously supports your spine. memory foam doesn't come close. get your best sleep guaranteed. save up to $800 during our memorial day sale. visit purple.com or a store near you smile! you found it. the feeling of finding psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu,

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welcome back. it's estimated that more than 2 million new cases of cancer will be diagnosed in the united states this year alone and more than 600,000 americans will die from the disease. now, one man whose entire family was cruelly and mysteriously

ravaged by cancer is sharing how that battle helped pave the way for a breakthrough discovery that is greatly expanding the understanding of the disease and is aiding in efforts to improve cancer treatment. that's all due to a very rare inherited gene mutation that runs in his family. joining us now, author lawrence ingrassingsia. thank you for being with us this morning. tell us about this fatal inheritance. what is it? >> it's part memoir and part medical mystery. part of it is the heartbreaking story of my family and families like mine suffering all sorts of

cancer at all ages and being bewilders by it, kind of what is going on? it's statement an inspiring tale about researchers led by two young doctors, sons of immigrants, going back to the 1960s when very little was known about cancer. they came across another family, not mine, that had a lot of cancers. they thought maybe something is hereditary, but at that time nothing was known about that. they were told by the experts, no, you don't know what you're talking about, it can't be that. to their credit, they persisted. undeterred, they kept studying these families. it took a long time to find a very rare, very deadly genetic

mutation that was the culprit. >> the assumption would have been there was something in the environment that caused it, is that it? >> actually, if you go back to the 1960s, the belief of most cancer experts was that many cancers were caused by viruses. hereditary was considered not much of a factor at all. these researchers were going against conventional wisdom. of course, they didn't have the scientific tools to prove it then. what happened was, my brother died a few years ago. that was the last member of my family who was living. i knew a little bit about this mutation, not much. i wanted to learn more. so that set me on my own journey of discovery. in doing that, i reconnected

with my family. my mother died in 1968 when she was 42. my next sister died at 24. my next sister died at 32. my brother got his first cancer when he was 46. i wanted to learn about this. it brought me on this journey. it became really a love letter to my family and to families like mine, because they were so desperate for understanding about what was going on. >> lawrence, as you did the research for the book and even more importantly the deep dive into your family and started feeling that a lot of this was, as you said, a fatal inheritance and herhereditary. did you feel resistance in the

health industry that they really didn't want to solve certain things, that a lot of people just wanted to continue business as usual, even in the health world? >> scientists always want proof. they kind of have their understanding of things the way they are. it takes a long time to build evidence. i don't think it was resistance to try to keep it the same way, but until we have proof otherwise we're going to continue believing what it is. that proof came in 1990 when they finally discovered this gene. there was this explosion in the understanding of genetics. that's part of this story here, that these doctors finally solved this puzzle by finding this. by finding this mutation, that actually helped them understand how cancers are caused. only 10 to 15% of cancers are hereditary.

turns out a lot are environmental. a very small percentage are viral. that understanding from how genetics works and enables them to develop all sorts of new targeted therapies. cancer is deadly, but in some types of cancers there's been great improvement in survival rates. it's possible that my sisters, who died 40 years ago, might have lived longer because it would have been detected earlier and they would have had better treatments because of the findings that came after their died. i learned a lot about my sisters. i got the diaries one of my sisters kept. it was painful to read that, but it was an amazing journey. >> the new book "a fatal inheritance" is out now. lawrence ingrassia, thank you very much. >> thank you so much.

coming up on "morning joe," we'll show you the incredible new documentary which details the rise and fall of a popular subscription service. we'll speak with the director about how the company lost it all and then made a comeback. you're watching "morning joe." ak you're watching "morning joe." (bell ringing) limu, someone needs to customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. let's fly! (inaudible sounds) chief! doug. (inaudible sounds) ooooo ah. (elevator doors opening) (inaudible sounds) i thought you were right behind me. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, ♪ ♪ liberty. ♪ (psst! psst!) ahhh! with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary.

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i went to the movie threer 428 times. >> moviepass doubled the revenue. >> mitch said, mark my words, everyone's going to be rich. >> going to coachella, partying with big boy, john travolta. >> they burnt $250 million. wait, wait, whoa, whoa. >> that was a look at part of the trailer of the new hbo

documentary that follows moviepass from its rise as a promising startup offering affordable deals to moviegoers to scandals and three of its former executives charged with federal crimes. joining us, the cofounder and the director. you were the cofounder of this. you were this so you were there for the rise, but tell us what happened next. >> yeah, so we built it up from the very beginning. we wanted to make the netflix of movie theaters, and then we had an exit, which is great. you do a startup and you get an exit, private equity group bought it and took it off in a whole 'nother direction, and we ended up buying it back and

relaunching the company. >> muta, when you got involved with putting this film out and really profiling what the rise and fall and rise again, the resurrection here. >> right. >> what did you find was the reason that it didn't succeed with the people that bought it from him, and then they end up being prosecuted, and then he coming back bringing it back again. what's the learning curve here for us? >> the day i met stacy, we started this during the pandemic, i knew immediately that stacy cared about his customers, the subscribers to movie pass that got up to 3 million. i think the new people had a priority that had to do with maybe making the stock prices rise, and they weren't paying attention to the business model. subscribers were paying $10 a month, but it was costing about $40 a month per subscribers and they had 33 million subscribers

so they were losing money, and they weren't focusing on correcting that in my opinion. that's the major difference. i think what stacy has now is a different model. >> what was that experience like for you? you came in as the founder. you wanted to make this the netflix for movie theaters, and then you were pushed out? you were -- you know, what happened when they took over? >> yeah, so the original price point when i was ceo was $30 a month. they wanted to drop it to $10 a month as a promotional item. so we were just going to add 100,000 people there. we thought it would take six months. we added 100,000 people in 48 hours, so i said you have to turn it off, that can't be profitable. and they said, no, this is great. let's keep going, and that was the beginning of a split. they felt that i wasn't on the right path with them, and they said you're out. we'll take it from here. and burned through a quarter of a billion dollars in less than

12 months and went bankrupt. >> so let's take a look at a clip where employees describe what it was like working at movie pass when the company decided to throw a party at the coachella music festival. >> i don't understand why we were even at coachella as a movie company. >> staff on ted's side, they're really enjoying the ride and people were back at the office trying to figure out customer service issues or why somebody wouldn't get their card. >> at the time it was super backed up. there were hundreds of thousands of customer service tickets and like seven people answering them. >> do you remember that, the coachella party? >> do you think they invited us, the customer support or just anyone who wasn't upper management to coachella? no, they didn't. >> i sensed a resentment by the

movie pass employees. each individual has their various roles and not all roles get the party. >> i mean, the film -- just listening to that reminds me a little bit of fyre and the fyre festival documentary. we saw the daily beast headline describing the film as a film about white male privilege. dig into that a little bit for us. is that what you kind of had in mind when you were making it? >> i see why you would think that. i think it ultimately is connected to that, but i wanted to center stacy and his cofounder in this story, and i think they went through a lot. i think stacy's been a little bit humble. it was a dramatic experience to spend ten years building your company, be forced to step down as ceo, be forced to be demoted and then to not have the leaders take your advice, be kicked out of the boardroom and kicked out of your own entire company, and those things, i think, wouldn't have taken place if people weren't given the benefit of the

doubt because of how they looked and how they presented and people weren't doubted because of how they looked and how they were presented, and it was fascinating to me to tell a story that involves two black founders in the high stakes $100 million corporate world and to see what they go through. >> really important point and we can't wait to watch it. the documentary will debut this coming wednesday, may 29th, on hbo and will be available to stream on max. movie pass cofounder and ceo stacy spikes as well as director muta ali. thank you, both, congrats on the film. >> thank you. >> and we're going to be right back with some more "morning joe." shingles. some describe it as an intense burning sensation, or an unbearable itch. this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks and could make it hard to be there for your loved ones. shingles could also lead to serious complications that can last for years. if you're over 50,

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people are expected to travel in record breaking numbers this weekend. over the next week, evidently, tsa predicts it will screen more than 18 million travelers. okay, so is it -- i forget, is

it laptops in, shoes off? laptops off shoes on? just to be safe, i'm going to put my laptop in my shoes. [ laughter ] >> and just ahead of the unofficial kickoff to summer, we have some time for some final thoughts of the week. reverend al sharpton, tell us who's on "politics nation" this week. >> we're going to deal with the fourth anniversary of the killing of george floyd, and donald trump's reach out to black and latino voters. and a focus on africa, i was at the white house state dinner last night with the president of kenya and president biden, and what that means on focus on africa. >> this is the week that a trial concluded of the former president of the united states, and next week we are going to find out if he is convict odd of a crime. we live with it every day, don't always take in the enormity of it. >> i'm bringing it way down to basics, i'm afraid.

it's the memorial day weekend, just leave the laptop at home. travel with your shoes and your bikini and that's it really. that's all i've got. it's friday. >> we can all enjoy the long weekend, but of course we will be thinking about the meaning of memorial day as well and those who paid the ultimate b sacrifice for the country. we appreciate all of you being with us this morning. that does it for us this morning, "morning joe" will be back next week. have a great week, everybody, ana cabrera picks up the coverage right now. right now on "ana cabrera reports," new intensity in the fight for the presidency. donald trump campaigning in new york's very blue south bronx, vilifying immigrants in his appeal to black and latino voters. plus, new reporting on the biden campaign this morning and plans for a more aggressive strategy as trump's trial draws to a close. also ahead, supreme controversy, how democrats are dialing up the pressure on justice alito amid mounting criticism, and then later

hi