hi, there, everyone. 4:00 in new york. i'm katy tur in for nicolle wallace. with donald trump dead set taking one branch of our federal

government and another partly run by supporters, shaped to execute his vision. there is understandably an urgent focus on that third branch. today, even it is clearer than ever that the sanctity of our american judiciary and foundational role played in ensuring our freedoms is under the spotlight. this week flags flown outside supreme court justice samuel alito many homes, symbols also used by january 6th insurrectionists called into question his ability to fairly and impartially rule on matters having to do with donald trump's attempted coup. joining us now, house minority leader hakeem jeffries and msnbc legal analyst andrew weissmann and the host of "politics-nation" president of the national action network

reverend al sharpton. leader jefferies, thank you for being here. spoke a moment with with senator whitehouse about justice samuel alito and these flags. he seems to think it's pretty clear there needs to be a discussion about recusal for justice alito. where do you stand? >> a circumstance where justice samuel alito should be permitted to preside with respect to any case that has to do with the january 6th violent insurrection. absolutely he should recuse himself. he disqualified himself in terms of either the appearance of impartiality or actual impartiality. >> how do you get him to reconsider? how do you get the chief justice to get him to even consider this? >> part of the challenge that we confront with the runaway supreme court. it appears to want to conduct itself as if the judiciary is

above the law. for years members of the house and senate indicated it's time for the supreme court to have an ethical code of conduct that is enforceable. last year chief justice roberts did implement a code of conduct, but it appears to be voluntary and is being ignored. as a result of that, the first opportunity we have in the congress, i believe we need to have a real conversation about a legislative effort to implement and ethical code of conduct on the supreme court that is enforceable. they are the only branch of government currently that can operate with impunity. congress has an ethical code of conduct enforceable under law. the executive branch has an ethical code of conduct

enforceable under law. we've got to get the maga extremists on the supreme court under control. >> to be clear, we're talking about these flags. one of them was the upside-down american flag flown outside of his home after the insurrection while the court considering a case regarding the election. justice alito says he wife was the one who flew it and done in a dispute with one of the neighbors. the other flag was the "appeal to heaven flag." stop the stealers as well. religious portion of stop the stealers. no comment. flown outside of his new jersey vacation home reported multiple times in 2023. when republican senators are

asked they say no big deal it's over blown in the media. do you see any innocent explanation flying of these flags, two separate homes during two separate periods? >> do not see any nonnefarious northern innocent explanation. if there is one we haven't heard it from supreme court justice alito. trying to throw his bus under the bus, extraordinary in and of itself. for anyone to do let alone a supreme court just is who, by the way, is having to deal with pending cases before the supreme court that involve the insurrectionist donald trump, involve people who violently assaulted the capitol undermining the peaceful transfer of power first time in history and that is why this is a serious issue. part of the challenge we confront at this moment the extreme maga republican majority

in house of representatives has zero interest in exercising any oversight authority over the out of control members of the supreme court. which is one of the things that will be before the american people on the ballot in november. >> if the democrats retake control of the house. if the american public puts democrats in control of the house, and say the american public allows democrats to maintain control of the senate, say the american public also allows joe biden to keep the white house, would you plan on doing something regarding justice samuel alito? potentially trying to impeach him? >> well, let's not put the cart before the horse. the first step would be to make sure we engage in an aggressive oversight to get an understanding of what's happening, why it's happening, and how we can stop this extremist behavior from ever happening again. the challenge right now is that even the senate democrats, though they are in majority, has

the inability or does not have the ability, i should say, to enforce subpoenas and try to ascertain and obtain information, because republicans in the senate have the ability to block it, because there is a 60-vote threshold with respect to subpoena enforceability and, of course, under chairman jim jordan add the chair of the oversight committee, we see what a mess oversight has been throughout the entirety of this congress, they have zero interest in trying to rehabilitate the credibility of the supreme court. we're going to have to step into the situation. >> it's not just justice alito. also justice thomas, serious questions surrounding him regarding billionaire funding, lavish vacations. what he's taken from people who have arguments in front of the supreme court. also taken positions recently regarding our institutions in the overturning of roe v. wade

brought up brookfield and gay marriage suggesting he'd want to take another look at that and questions wanting to look at brown v. board of education. what are your feelings about justice thomas? >> justice thomas has long lost his credibility in terms of an impartial figure interested in liberty and just is for all. equal protection under the law. it's important for the american people to understand that if roe v. wade can fall, anything can fall. social security itself can fall. medicare can fall. the affordable care act can fall. democracy can fall. brown v. board of education can fall as justice thomas made clear in his concurring observation and opinion yesterday. so everything we care about is going to be on the ballot in november. including getting the federal

judiciary into a place where it can actually administer the law and not lead an ideological effort to jam their right-wing views down the throats of the american people. >> leader jefferies, if justice alito does not recuse himself and is part of the court that rules on former president trump's immunity case which is set to come out any day now, and say that it gets kicked down to the lower courts and having to go through where the presidential immunity lies. is that going in your opinion, to degrade the confidence in the court? >> well, the court has done a lot over the last several years to degrade public confidence in the institution, and, you know, that's quite unfortunate, because we need a fair and

impartial judicial branch as part of our architecture and a handful of maga on the supreme court pushed things too far in an extreme direction. i think we just have to continue to encourage the american people that at the end of the day, who they elect as president, who they elect into the united states senate will help determine the future fate of the united states supreme court, and based on the view that the public lacks confidence in the supreme court, i'm hopeful that will be a factor in november when people go to the polls. >> leader jefferies, al sharpton, good to see you again. we were together last night at the state dinner. i want to push a little on the idea of the justice alito throwing his wife in front of the bus. in fact, if in fact, the

congress is changed in terms of the democratic leadership, of which you're the head, leader in the house, and overtakes the congress next year, is it not appropriate to call before the house and/or the senate, at least a judiciary committee, a justice that may have been supporting an insurrection of the united states government? i mean, we're talking about not just a flag of protest. we're talking about a flag that happened right after january 6th. this was not amp the election. this was after the insurrection. and i think the american people, republican, democrat, right wing, left wing, have a right to know, was he supporting an insurrection? under oath, if he wants to throw his wife in front of the bus, let him do it under oath. i think we have a right to know. bringing in everybody from hunter biden to whoever else in

front of the congress, isn't this serie enough to bring a sitting just is possibly supporting an insurrection of the government that he sits top of the branch to swear him in under oath and find out exactly what he was saying in a statement right after the insurrection in two of his residences? >> it's an incredible serious issue, reverend sharpton, for all reasons that you've articulated. in terms of steps we might take in the new congress, i don't want to get out ahead of either chairman-to-be nadler or jamie raskin in the oversight committee. i can say they will be aggressive in efforts to get an understanding what is happening with justice alito. that's -- what's happened with justice thomas and how to get us

back on track opinion the house of representatives has the responsibility to serve as a check and balance. on an out of control executive branch or an out of control supreme court. james madison said that congress should serve as a rival, a rival to the other branches of government. in order to make sure that no one overreaches in a way inconsistent with our constitution or our values, and so i can certainly promise that we will engage in aggressive oversight of the united states supreme court, if we move forward. that is what the public is demanding. >> leader jefferies, ask you about your branch of government. congressman mcgovern the other day was, his words were stricken from the record. he was talking about donald trump's legal troubles. play that. i'd love your opinion what happened after. >> a candidate for president of the united states is on trial for sending a hush money payment

to a porn star to avoid a sex scandal during his 2016 campaign. and then fraudulently disguising those payments in violation of 9 the law and charged with overturning the election, stealing classified information and a jury found him liable for rape in a civil court. and yet in this republican-controlled post it's okay to talk about the trial but you have to call it a sham. >> take down his words. >> it's okay to say the jury is rigged but not that trump should be held accountable. >> suspended. >> not corrupting the rule of law. >> demand his words be taken down, leader, what do you think would happen there? i know found liable for rape in a civil cart. liable for sexual abuse. what he's saying than that is true. i understand out of order. what do you make of demand to have his words stricken from the record?

>> congressman jim mcgovern is a tremendous leader in the united states congress. he was speaking the truth. extreme maga republicans clearly cannot handle the truth. end of the day, they don't work for the american people. they work for the insurrectionists in chief. who basically gives them orders, tells them when to jump, how high, when to show up. what red tie to wear. what uniform to perform under. and this is what we are unfortunately dealing with in this do-nothing extreme republican congress and this was just one of the latest manifestations of it. >> leader jefferies, wondering if you could speak to the urgency of this situation involving supreme court justice alito and thomas, and the reason i raise that, right now there is a stay of the d.c. insurrection case. that is not going to trial,

because this supreme court has ineffectuated that stay. for all we know sitting here the reason that that is continuing, the reason we do not have a trial date and we do not have accountability can be because justices alito and thomas are holding it, writing a descent. not moving that case along. these could be people who should not be sitting there. they should not be voting on something that they have a partisan interest in, and to me, i was wondering what can you done, because this isn't so much an issue of what will happen in the election, which i agree with you, is something that people have to vote on, but there is a real consequence that is a serious one right now about just accountability when a grand jury has voted an indictment and the supreme court is basically standing in the way of the public's right to a trial. >> well, the american people and

their representatives in the united states congress in both the house and senate have to keep the pressure on supreme court to be more transparent as relates to the reasons why justice thomas and justice alito have not recused themselves as relates to any of these matters connected to the violent insurrection. the efforts to halt the peaceful transfer of power. the big lie. the criminal cases that are now pending against the former president. these are reasonable questions that the american people should have actual answers to, and they are not forthcoming. this is an extraordinary thing, because the judiciary branch is a branch where you actually need legitimacy and credibility and the full faith and confidence of the american people.

because the decisions that they issue basically are permanent and unappealable. so that why in order for them to be received in a manner consistent with our country as a nation of the rule of law anchored in the rule of law, there is a confidence deficit that's going to have to be confronted and we're going to use every tool available to us, though in the minority, to try it to get the truth forward for the american people. >> thank you so much. kept you a little more, a little longer than we intended to, but appreciate you staying on and answering all of our questions. >> thank you all. coming up next on "deadline: white house," we're going to turn to the trump election interference hush money trial. now in its final stages. the fate of donald trump could be in hands of a jury in a few days. plus, donald trump and allies in the republican party are adopting what the "new york

times" calls "heads i win. tails you cheated" strategy ahead of the 2024 election setting the stage to deny the election results, if they lose. all of those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after this. do not go anywhere. with so many choices on booking.com there are so many tina feys i could be. so i hired body doubles. mountain climbing tina at a cabin. or tree climbing tina at a beach resort. nice! booking.com booking.yeah.

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we are in the final countdown to what promises to be "the" most consequential day yet in the first criminal trial of the former president. the first criminal trial of the former american president closing arguments begin tuesday. now as we have said many times none of us know what it going on in the jurors' heads. as politico points out, there are clues about what the jury might do and how they might do it. "the d.a.'s office provided two logical paths for jurors to convict donald trump. one that goes through cohen and around michael cohen. the path through cohen relies on his testimony about purported conversations that he had with trump. saying "jurors do not have to believe cohen entirely on every

minute detail, but they could adopt the overall thrust of his account." the second path to a conviction relies circumstantial evidence. ininference in common sense, perfectly appropriate grounds upon which jurors can render a verdict. plenty of reason even apart from the direct evidence offered by cohen to believe that trump was in on everything and fully aware of the legal risks and implications of what he had done. after all, trump was the only full-time participant in all of the key events. he was the person who had sex with stormy daniels. she says it. he denies it. the candidate running for president whose political interests were at risk if daniels account became public. he was a principle in the contract negotiations to acquire daniels' story.

he was the person who ultimately gave the money for daniels to stay quiet and he was the head of the business whose records were falsified in the course of repaying michael cohen. also quote, if you believe all of this, it is not a terrible difficult lead to conclude that donald trump knew all of the key facts." "there's no way to predict what the jury thinks about all of this, but prosecutors are clearly within striking distance of convicting donald trump." joining the conversation, "new york times'" investigative reporter suzann craig and david kelly, served chief of the organized trial and terrorism unit. andrew and rev are still with me here at the table. suzanne you were in the courtroom every day watching. do we have a sense how tuesday might go yet? >> we don't really have a sense what tuesday might go. i think the rest of the week is a bit of a mystery to everybody.

tuesday we're going to be downtown in the courtroom again and in the overflow room. i'm expecting there's going to be a lot of people coming out public, the media, and once we get into the courtroom at 9:30 a.m. we are going to have jury instruction. i think judge merchan will spend roughly an hour on really crucial jury instructions. those are going to instruct the jury sort of on their discussions and how if they do get to a guilty, how they get there. then after that we're going to have open arguments. closing arguments. sorry. each side is going to give their best case to the jury on why they should come to the decision that they want them to. >> a jury deliberation instruction deliberation hearing a couple days ago. it got tense obviously because jury instructions matter so much how the case will be decided. is there a sense how judge

merchan fell on those jury instructions? >> i actually -- you know, i think there's -- we do. i was going to say, maybe better in terms of legal matters on that, but they are really, they are really crucial. i don't want to -- >> take it of you 0 your harnd and give it to andrew. term about the jury instructions. where is the judge going? >> so there's a lot of nuances in respect to the law. the a really important, what the jury will be instructed. because things like to find the necessary intention, does the state have to prove that the soul intent, for instance, that donald trump had was the campaign, or is a dual intent. meaning partially thought about campaigning and partially thought about melania. is that sufficient? he'll say the latter. that's an example why the instructions are important. big picture.

i've been beating this drum a lot. there residential a lot of open issues. we spend a lot of time covering manure manure -- minutia the jury instruction. the judge made it clear he's sticking with or the of settled law. d.a. bragg would never have brought the case if counting on an unusual legal instruction to carry the day. >> do you think the judge will add the lesser crime? have the jury decide on a misdemeanor as well as a felony? >> a great question. normally, when the statute of limitations has not run on the lesser crimes, then one side or the other could be asking for the lesser included offense. here the statute of limitations, which is the time within which you have to bring a case, that is run with respect to the

misdemeanors. not run, statute was longer for felonies. so the d.a. could bring the felonies without, you know, the consent of the defendant. the misdemeanors the d.a. cannot ask for those to be charged, because the statute of limitations has run. why there are only felonies here and can't say we'd like to give the jury the option. the defendant can, but so far the defendant has not. >> david, a gamble for the defendant, for donald trump's team to say include the misdemeanors. why? >> well, because i think kind of an all or nothing here. number one from what andrew was saying really not available, but i think what their point is, that you can't believe the government's case at all. you can't believe michael cohen, and if you can't believe michael cohen, and if you can't believe, you know, all the people they had come in, then they have to

acquit him. i don't see them really coming in and trying to split the baby here. >> agree with that? >> whatwhatty -- what i think they're going to try to do, getting one juror to not it go along with the government's case. >> a hung jury is not a normal result. in this case, is it potentially, maybe, more likely than not? >> so i am -- i have no idea. >> i know we all talk about the jury as if we can predict the jury. we have no idea. >> no idea. one thing people should be ready for is the niceties. this is, i think, something that is important. there are 34 counts. that means there are 34 verdicts, and for each count the jury could find that trump people agreed it's guilt. 12 have to agree not guilty. anything in between, hung.

retried. true for each and every count. you could have a split verdict. here's the difference -- >> no, they're not the same. >> eight of them, the defendant has signed the checks, and one way i think you will hear the prosecution suggest to the jury of potentially splitting is finding guilt with respect to the checks donald trump signed. because, remember, not only did he sign them, but the, in the fake invoice is attached to the check. he would have seen it each and every time he signed. >> suzanne, judge in on that. >> no. i think that -- i'm not sure it's going to go that way. i really don't know. but the defense certainly made the case not all the checks were signed by donald trump. some came from the revocable trust, his sons have signing authority over that and i think that, in introducing that, raising the possibility, you know, that maybe he didn't know about all of them.

seems hard to believe that if he knew about some, you know -- he didn't know about all of them. put that out there. that at least, going in that direction. you know the other thing i've been thinking about that, the evidence brought up when michael cohen testified about how he stole money from the trump organization. he called it sort of self-help. when he did it. there was evidence he took some money he shouldn't have. written about it in his book. i think another way that you could think about that from the jury's point of view, you know, the defense, sorry, the prosecution has made quite a case over donald trump, he counted every penny that went out of the place. he was always looking for a deal. he was very much aware of all of the money going out. signed every check, but in that instance it's another, it's a case where michael cohen apparently got one over on donald trump. i think they could use that also. just to say, donald trump didn't

necessarily have his eye on every penny that was leaving the place. you know, kind of cast more doubt on, on, you know, did donald trump know or not? that's really what it's going to come down to. >> an interesting point. i see rev shaking his head. come to rev in a moment. sneaking in a quick break. no one's going anywhere. we'll have more on our closing arguments, on "the" closing arguments in the election interference case next week with our panel right here after a very quick break. don't go anywhere. shop etsy until june 16th and get up to 30% off father's day gifts that go beyond the classic go-to. save on personalized gear, and other things dads dig. when you want a one-of-a-kind gift to show him he's #1. etsy has it. (vo) if you have graves' disease... ...and itchy eyes, the truth may be even more uncomfortable. people with graves' could also get thyroid eye disease,

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>> you'll have to ask michael cohen. infamous moment aboard air force one seen in day of light now that michael corren earned place in history as star witness in the first criminal trial of a former president. also his former boss,ing donald trump. all bac with us, our panel. talking about different accounts and whether, rev, the jury might

be hung. you were shaking your head. >> yeah. i think the argument that because michael cohen admitted to keeping some money that was supposed to go to someone else, and they in fact robbed donald trump, could be argued in the summation by the prosecutor. because i think they come back at the end saying, wait a minute. donald trump had authorized that 50 grand. he did not know what happened after it left. that is a qualitative difference between donald trump signing checks knowing why it was going out. because there's no dispute it was supposed to go out and interfered with here. donald trump intended those checks to go somewhere, and you cannot make a comparison between the two. >> so interesting. the defense is going first in summations and might make that argument. prosecution could theoretically change their summation to direct it directly saying hold on as

rev said. 50 grand went out. didn't know where it went after that, doesn't necessarily mean he didn't know 50 grand was going out. >> and knew where the checks he was signing was going out. bringing you back to stormy daniels. >> what do you make of what politico is arguing? top of the segment, the one before, that donald trump was the only full-time guest of every one of these events. the alleged, you know, sexual encounter with stormy daniels. the writing of the checks. the meeting with david pecker. he was there for every single instance of what is alleged in this case. >> i figure that's very important. him being the only one in each one of the incidents that's going to be recounted by both the prosecution and the defense is going to be, in my judgment, a problem for the defense, because otherwise how do you link all of them together? and dispute them, when there's no one else that has been before the trial that was, that was in

every scene. the other part of that, i think, that's important, is that donald trump was the only one that had a motive. every one else in these scenes had no motive. he keeps saying, nothing. you didn't put a witness on the stand to give michael cohen a motive. who had a motive to do all of this other than donald trump. >> such a good point. one of the things that struck me, david. they didn't allow the "access hollywood" tape into the trial and it would have talked about circumstances during the campaign at that time. reporting on the campaign. the "access hollywood" was a major blow. a few weeks before the election, a month before the election, and the trump team was worried he was losing suburban women. thought they would lose the election and that was what the moment was like when stormy daniels came and said i have this story to tem. so pointing to motivation to potentially want to silence her and not have that story come out, at that time. do you think, and in reading

about what happened during the trial, that the prosecution did enough to establish the motive of the moment to convince the jury that donald trump had an ulterior intent to keep this from the american public, and to make this an election interference case? >> yeah. and look, reverend sharpton made a good point about politico. does defense have the motive, opportunity, intent? i believe that the prosecution put on a masterful case in establishes that. that all having been said, though, when you try a case, always looked as it, that when you walk into a courtroom in front of a jury you're best case in the world drops down to 50/50. your worst case in the world, could have a really dog case, but once you walk in front of that jury, it becomes all 50/50.

so these are all really great points but we don't know what's going on in minds mp the jury. we can sit here, do analysis reasonable quotes looking at the evidence through, you know, impartial eyes and do all of this analysis and focus on the nuances, and i think our analysis so far has been really sharp, but it really means nothing until it gets into the jurors' minds and they really apply their own common sense and their own experiences as the judge will describe to them, and in the charges, but like i said. all of those jurors going in there, they're all at 50/50. once that gets to the jury. >> such a good point. harping on that when we talk to -- always a sense where a juror might go and always surprised when a jury comes back with their final verdict. every time tries to predict it, been wrong. i think that juror's really

siding with michael cohen. feeling warmly towards michael cohen or that juror is acting prickly and notconvinced by the arguments. it's really unknown until the verdict. "access hollywood" there but tape did not get introduced into evidence. how did todd blanche do? response to donald trump? >> worked under me when i was u.s. attorney. a very good hoyer. i think that -- lawyer. a couple bad things. branded by the judge as being less than candid. and i think that you, a jury can sense, i think what a judge feels about their lawyers, no matter how far the judge may try to conceal he's fillings. that really lends itself to what the jushy seems to be credible in defense case. i think that todd, good as lawyer as he is, i think that some challenges, mistakes have

been made. easy for me and us to sit here and do that. we're not in the courtroom, but i think some of that, if not most, if not a lot of it, or all of it, has been client-driven as opposed to lawyer-driven. this is a very -- appears to be a very different client to manage. and, you know, you have womder who's making the decision? ultimately the defendant makes the decisions yea or nay, but what decisions made throughout the trial, i think weigh in to how todd performed here. >> i think it's interesting and the decision to call robert costello was not a good decision. seems everyone's analysis a bad decision. what about the decision not to call keith schiller when keith schiller was there and could cooperatorate donald trump's version of events? that's a true version of events.

obviously, allen weisselberg not called either. sneaking in another quick break. don't go anywhere. we'll be right back. these days everyone is staring at screens, scanning the news, and watching their spending. good vision is more important than ever, but so especially now is saving. that's why america's best includes a free eye exam when you buy two pairs of glasses for just $79.95, that's a savings of at least sixty nine bucks.

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and for the prosecution. what happens politically speaking if there's not a conviction? >> i think that it certainly would play into donald trump's modernham projection he's played to and could be very harmful to the democrats, because donald trump will go on tour like elvis presley saying, "i told you so." i think it would be, you can't take politics out of this, because this is about politics. he did this because he was trying to protect his candidacy. so i think a right to look at the politics of it and i think if he is acquitted he'll be a political -- serious political problem for democrats. if he is convicted, or even if it's a hung jury, a hung jury less so, now you're kicking the ball down and everybody will claim victory, but if these convicted, i don't care what he says. elvis should leave the building. >> do you feel having seen this

case now differently about it than you might have felt at the beginning? a lot of feeling among people this was not the case that, if donald trump was going to get tried tore something regarding 2020, this wasn't the case they wanted? >> no question this case initially, at least in my mind suffered in comparison to the insurrection case and the classified documents national security case. but both of which now, the insurrection case is, hard to think of a more important of a more important case. and for people like david and me who have done work in the national security space, it is really hard to take that takes lightly. it's so important for that case to be tried and for there to be accountability. there are scores of people that have done a lot less. so i think it's separate in comparison. i think one of the really good

things the state did that would definitely change my mind in terms of how i was looking at it was the very first witness was david pecker, and i remember thinking, leave aside guilt or innocence, let's just focus on something that seems pretty undisputed. david pecker is saying he had a private agreement with a candidate for a presidential office to do two things, catch and kill negative stories, and disseminate false stories about his political adversaries, which as a journalist you're, like, what on god's green earth? that is not what you sign up for. >> no. >> and that answered so much of the why you should care part of the case and the sort of, like, oh, is this just money for a porn star? no, this was collusion with a media outlet, even if it's a down market media outlet, it is

an important one. so that really did go to why you should care about this case. >> all right, everyone. we've run out of time. thank you, appreciate it. and thank you to andrew and rev for sticking around. for more expert analysis, along with all of the legal stories we cover here, sign up for "the deadline" legal newsletter. scan the qr code on your screen to have it delivered to your in box. ohio's republican governor calls out his fellow republicans for a potential crisis that could have left joe biden off the november ballot in that state. [ cellphone ringing ] phone call from the boss? sorry. outdoor time is me time. i hear that. that's why we protect all your vehicles here. but hey...nothing wrong with sticking it to the boss. ooooh, flo, you gonna take that? why would that concern me? because you're...the... aren't you the..?

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and any other direction you may need. ♪♪ up to eight available cameras and fourteen views. ♪♪ so you can focus on the view that really matters. don't miss a thing. chevy's got you. chevrolet. together let's drive. an update to a story we brought you earlier, ohio governor mike dewine has called for a special session in the legislature in order to get president joe biden on the ballot for the election in november. it's in response to the state's republican-led legislature refusing to tweak a state law that requires candidates to be officially nominated by their party 90 days ahead of election day. president biden is said to be officially nominated after the august 7th deadline. dewine blasted his fellow republicans saying, quote, ohio is running out of time to get

joe biden, the sitting president of the united states, on the ballot this fall. failing to do so is simply not acceptable. this is ridiculous. this is an absurd situation. special session begins tuesday. we will keep you updated on this story as it develops. when we come back, good news, nicolle wallace joins us for the next hour of "deadline white house" so do not go anywhere.

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the only way we can lose, in my opinion -- i really mean

this, pennsylvania, is if cheating goes on. so i hope you people can sort of not just vote on the 8th, go around and look and watch other polling places and make sure that it's 100% fine. hi, everyone. it's 5:00 in new york. i'll explain my absence in a minute. it's been more than seven and a half years since those comments were first made, it represented the first time then-candidate donald trump suggested that the 2016 presidential election was rigged, but only if he didn't win. it was the beginning of a years' long effort that culminates in january 6th to sow doubt about the integrity of our elections. it's something he has used repeatedly so often it barely makes news, he does it every time he runs for office. in brand new reporting and

analysis in the "new york times," we see a visual representation of his lies about a stolen rigged election. "new york times" finds that with each campaign starting in 2016, moving on to 2020, and now, of course, 2024, trump has publicly broadcast lies about the election earlier and earlier in the campaign cycle. they report that 2024 marks a significant escalation, which you can see here on the chart, not only have his lies started earlier, but the amount of lies is increasing at a faster pace. "the times" reports the falsehoods have been baked in since trump announced his candidacy almost two years before election day. according to the analysis, he has cast doubt about the fairness of the 2024 election about once a week on average since then, meaning every day he lies, every day he denies the truth, that he lost in 2020. every day he sows further doubt

in future elections. we saw the frightening violent manifestation of those lies on january 6th when his supporters, all believing his lies, stormed the u.s. capitol, threatening to kill lawmakers and the then-vice president mike pence. outside of january 6th, trump supporters have threatened lawmakers, election workers and civil servants based on claims backed by no evidence, and even claims that have been debunked. but that they do not accept. donald trump's lies could not flourish by his actions alone. the big lie has reached startling levels, total saturation, because people in the republican party refuse to denounce them. take marco rubio, the highest ranking republican on the senate intelligence committee. he was the latest in the republican party to refuse to say he will accept the results of the 2024 elections. it was written in the democracy

docket, quote, for the last two years, no republican hoping for a future in politics will say clearly that trump lost any of the battleground states in 2020, and certainly not that he lost all of them. there is no end point to trump's narcissim and no acceptable place for republicans to say enough. we cannot survive as a democracy if only one party is willing to accept defeat. they will not keep our constitutional republic if half of the country will subvert election results to empower one man. we start with some of our experts and friends. democratic pollster and political analyst, the president of brilliant corners research, cornell is back joining us. writer at large, and analyst, tim miller is here, with me, the founder of iraq and veterans of america, and my friend, the host of the hell and high water

podcast, national affairs analyst is here. john, you picked the short straw. you get to deal with my absence in the last hour. >> about a year ago i had my first ever root canal. when i was diagnosed, i knew exactly who to call. nicolle knows a lot about that. she's had like 19 root canals. hey, i finally need that root canal hookup. worked out great. >> i'll blame my english father. today i had a dental procedure at noon, was assured that my novocaine would wear off. at about 3:50, i had partial facial -- >> it's more or less worn off right now. i think about the west wing, there's a great one where c.j. craig gets a root canal and they keep making her say mr. president because she can't say "president" right. it's not as bad as that. >> i left early yesterday to see

my son's concert, so i'm back because i didn't want to birth any conspiracy theories. i'm sorry you have to deal with it as well. >> there will still be conspiracy theories. >> this whole election has felt like a root canal. >> i'm going to live with those jokes all day long. let me turn to this "new york times" reporting. you made a great point in going over the scripts because there was a point this afternoon when you might have been sitting in this chair instead of me. >> talk about another root canal for all the viewers. >> the efforts for those of us on earth one to not dilute what he did with the big lie was something that caught your attention. >> look, it's an amazing thing that trump started casting doubt on elections and doing the heads i win, tails you cheated thing, as far back as he did. now we've gotten the full record of how far it goes back.

it's all the same language. the man is not super original. and the other thing you see in the reporting, on one level it's not surprising he started earlier because the whole 2024 campaign is based on the notion that -- it's based on the big lie, the one and only big lie, which was that 2020 was stolen. so he's been basically running in 2024 on the notion that he's still the actual legitimately elected president of the united states from 2020. what's the most amazing thing about that graphic, though, is just the volume, that it started earlier doesn't surprise me for the reasons i said. but he's just over and over, the whole rhetorical basis of this race is restoration, righting the wrong of 2020. and every time he does that, by saying it over and over again, he's amplifying how big the big lie actually was, because it's the whole -- 2024 is not about

anything except for the big lie of 2020, and he's casting forward and saying if he loses this election, it will be a bigger travesty. it's amazing how this is the motive of the trump era. >> what's amazing to me is the acknowledgment that he can't and won't win. because the lie is only necessary in a moment of political weakness and vulnerability. so it's invoked who trump feels too small and too weak to win, and that he feels too small and too weak today, it's pretty amazing. >> yeah, you would think that he would feel better, looking at the polls. but i think he knows -- he lost the popular vote in 2016, and i think while he is demonstrating weakness, nobody is demonstrating for weakness than all the folks around him. you mentioned marco in the lead-in. i was looking at that chart

during the monologue and i thought think about what it would look like if it included all the other republicans lying about the big lie, and the lying would have been off the graph. that's another thing that's very different from 2016. in 2016 it was like trump's thing, i can never lose, i'm going to talk about the potential election fraud. now it's everybody. now it's even the ones that were quasi responsible, that pretend to be normal. that's one big change. the other big change that layers onto what john was talking about, how he wraps it into everything. and the most disgusting thing in the bronx rally yesterday of trump, he was talking about the hostages in gaza and he talks about how that would have never happened if they hadn't stolen the election from him. so everything is about the stolen election for him. everything is about him and his perceived grievances, even these horrible crimes a world away. and so i think that is another thing that is different from

2016, just how all encompassing it is. >> cornell, he also talked about journalists imprisoned in russia saying that he and only he will be able to get them freed if he prevails. the crassness knows no end, the pettiness knows no end. what's amazing is what tim is talking about, it hasn't diminished his political strength in the republican party. do you attribute that to just how socialized the republican base is to his narcissim? >> well, first let me say that now i can't get the song "novocain" by frank ocean out of my head. >> we can do an hour on novocain. i have a lot of dental work, i will blame my english father until the day i take my last breath. and i have never, ever had -- it usually wears off before they're

done drilling in my mouth. to have had it persist deep into the 4:00 hour, i still struggle around some of my consonants. >> when i see the chart, what i do see is i see donald trump and his fellow republicans who are helping him setting the country up and our democracy up to fail, because they are, in fact -- part of the thing that's happening, we see it in data and you hear it in focus groups, they are making ground and fertilizing the ground where a large swath of americans, primarily republicans, don't trust our elections and think our elections are not fair and square. what do you do when you think your elections are not fair and square? what do you do when you think

you're being robbed of something, something has been wrongfully taken? you are ready to take action. and we can pretend like it's not a big deal or we shouldn't be alarmed by it. but, nicolle, they're doing this for a reason. and i am very fearful that when -- and by the way, i do think donald trump will lose the election because i think he'll get the same percentage of the vote he got in 2016 and 2020, because no matter what the polls are, basically he's at 46%, 47%, and that, to me, is what i said is his ceiling for a while now. so i think they're actually preparing us for a lot of trouble after this election. i have no doubt in my mind that those republicans like rubio and others, now on the fence about this question, i have no doubt in my mind under pressure and under what donald trump is threatening that they will cave. and what happens when they cave

and we can't have a peaceful transference of power or holding of power? i think we're being set up for a soft coop in this country. >> i've asked if one political party is enough to preserve our democracy, and they've said, i hope so. i think it is an open question that we don't rumble with often enough whether or not the loss of the republican party as a participant in the democracy is something sustainable. and i think we'll have our answer in seven months. i guess my follow-up for you, cornell, if trump has landed on election denialism, does it mean that his message is about the economy and the border aren't landing? or does it mean he found something more powerful? >> he's found it more powerful because that's a safer bet that he can get to power than

attacking joe biden on the economy or attacking joe biden on foreign policy. i think the safest bet for him to get back to power is, in fact, where he's at, 46%, 47%, which he always is. the safest bet, because he's not going to garner a majority. donald trump is not going to garner, a majority of americans are not going to support donald trump. so his safest bet to power, i think he's hedging his bet, is in fact to hedge it and take advantage of america's achilles heel, which is if enough americans believe that our system is not working, it's a powder keg ready to explode. >> paul, there is the logical piece that you have to suspend, every member of the house is sent to washington on the same ballot that trump has now convinced a vast majority of republicans that those ballots

are faulty or only faulty on one line. it is an argument and a message and a rallying cry because it feels like more than an argument and a message. it feels like something meant to sort of activate a different system than your thinking process. but there is something ripe to be debunked, who does that and how do they do it? >> that's a great question. hopefully everyone. i think it's disgusting, it's dangerous, unprecedented, but also effective for him, and he knows that. when he's got an effective play, he keeps calling it. now he's getting everyone else to call it and they're coordinating that messages and surrounding their forces because they know it's effective and galvanizing their base and it's maybe their only path to victory and a backup plan. this is more than the election. it's about his threat to our national security. so if he doesn't win, now he's got a backup plan, a way to say this is why we lost and let's take our couple million people

and do something else, which could be very dangerous. this is why our enemies are celebrating this. it's an effective way to try to keep this going, and that's what he's got to do, whether he wins or loses, now he's got options. i think that's extremely dangerous, but he's also touching on something very powerful. the deep grievance. he is the master of grievance and that is very deep in this country. he can say for all of your grievances, i'm your guy, that's going to galvanize a lot of people in a dangerous way. >> i'm coming to you because we're old enough to remember when republican operatives in off years, because campaigns used to not last forever like they do now, would go to emerging democracies and help them administer elections. we now have an election that a large swath of the country and a majority of the self-identified republican party, and i would say nearly all of trump supporters, already distrust. it hasn't even happened. >> yeah, i mean, times have

changed. tim can speak to this. i think one of the things that has been powerful has been to talk about how much of this really falls on the shoulders of the enablers than the shoulders of trump. i will take slight exception to a couple of points at the table here, which are i don't think -- if you've got donald trump's campaign managers here, they would say trump is way more popular than biden on the economy, he's way more popular than biden on the border, he has issues that if he were ever able to be consistent and disciplined, he's in a a terrible position to beat joe biden, but to win the way he did in 2016, by putting together the electoral college majority. and they would rather him talk incessantly about the places where he has right now as an advantage over biden on substance, on economic

management, on inflation, on energy, and on national security. again, whether you like it or not, the people in the country, these are positions where biden is being beaten by trump. but trump sticks with this issue because trump is obsessed, and trump has convinced himself that -- his narcissim is titanic and he does not believe it's possible to lose the election. really he believes it. it's not just a tactic. i think he's going to win or he's somehow been cheated. it's the victimizing that galvanizes his base. if joe biden wins the election, it's going to be partly because trump has become so obsessed with talking about the past, running down america and talking about how the elections here are not fair and not legitimate.

i think the majority of americans, a lot of republicans, have doubts. i think around america, most people still think that democracy works. and that is going to be the path to his loss that he spent so much time talking about this. we'll look back at the chart and say if you spent more time talking about the issues where you had a lead, you might have won. >> i think you maybe inadvertently tapped on what may be more determinative than any issue or this issue for trump, he can't not talk about it. he's a different person than he was in '16 and '20. in '16 he could take the note to focus on whatever it was, the wall, xenophobic racist themes. he's not that guy anymore. >> at the end of the 2016 campaign people remember at the end, when they told him, you've got to talk about trade and china and immigration. he was a really disciplined candidate for ten days at the end. that's how he won the election.

right now he's got the most policy campaign staff he's had. back in 2016 it was a clown show. i'm sure those people tell him, could you talk about inflation? and he can't, because he's broken. he's broken. just look at trump. people have done this for years, but go back and look at the way donald trump talked in interviews in 2012, 2016 and now. he is not the same -- he's a long way from being the same man he was then. he was a lot more coherent and had a very command of the language and could talk about other things and take the note, as you say. i don't think he can anymore. there's a little more of an obsessive-compulsive rain man quality and he's got one thing stuck in his head and he talks about it over and over again. >> no offense to rain man attended. >> he could not take the house

in vegas. stolen election, stolen election, that's trump. >> when we come back, he's done it again. the disgraced ex-president once again discussing his unwavering admiration and affection for the world's most brutal dictators. what he told a rally crowd last night about putin, xi and kim jong-un. and we'll talk paul about his effort to help the people of ukraine, still suffering mightily two and a half years into their brutal war with russia. and we'll have a discussion with whoopi goldberg, her family upbringing and the magic her mother created in everything she did helped shape the woman she is today. "deadline: white house" continues after the quick break. don't go anywhere. our biggest challenge? uncertainty. hidden fees, surcharges... who knows what to expect! turn shipping to your advantage. keep it simple...with clear, upfront pricing.

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this has already been alluded to, the disgraced ex-president was back on the campaign trail yesterday, after weeks in what he describes as a chilling courtroom in his hush money election interference trial. he was hitting an alarmingly familiar refrain, his fawning obsession with autocrats. >> when you see president xi of china, president kim jong-un of north korea, when you see putin and all of these people, they're at the top of their game, whether you like it or not. >> i couldn't hear that. i don't know if you could. maybe there was some novocain in him, too. it would be pathetic just how much he sucks up to autocrats.

it was the usual suspects, orban, who he hosted at mar-a-lago, putin, kim jong-un, who he retained the love letters sent back and forth between the two of them, as well as president xi. trump, an ex-president doing those things, that would be one thing. but if you were in contention to be the guy who would hold the nuclear codes again, it becomes something totally different, far more chilling. there's a reason he looks up to these dictators. he's made it clear to all of us from his platform that he wants to be like them. here is trump at an nra convention over the weekend. >> fdr, 16 years, almost 16 years, he was four terms. are we going to be considered three terms? >> we're back with cornell, tim, paul and john. john, i'll blame the novocain all day long.

we've got your titles wrong. you're the big muck now. >> i know this isn't new, my coverage is a coverage question. this should never become normal. the things he's saying about people held in countries led by some of these autocrats he covets are cruel. >> yes, well, totally cruel. but i will say, also, there is no question -- and we've said it on this show and many shows, that there's an aspiring strong man quality, i want to be like them. he makes it clear he looks up to the thugs, putin, xi, kim jong-un, orban. i was in d.c. this weekend at dinner and i talked to a member of the senate intelligence committee and i said, what are you worried about in the fall? the person said, i'm worried about the fact that xi, kim

jong-un, vladimir putin, benjamin netanyahu and mbs would all rather see trump be president than joe biden. all of them either individually, some of them individually, or in concert they could decide to intervene in one way or another, cyber or manipulate the price of oil. they will become active participants in our fall election to benefit donald trump. so not only is this an aspirational thing, he wants to be like them, he's not saying come here and interfere with our elections, but he's kind of saying i love you guys. when i get back in -- he's courting them as well as envying them and courting them clearly as he did in 2016. he would be happy to accept some foreign interference in the election. he was happy then, he'll be happy in 2024. and there's a real thing to be scared about, not to send people off to the three-day weekend

with a little taste of terror. but when i heard that litany, who are the big-time foreign leaders who would all prefer, have clear preferences for trump over biden, i don't think we've seen anything like that before in a presidential election, that many of them, and the specter of what they could do is terrifying. >> it used to be politically a fatal blow to be the preferred candidate. but trump has conditioned his base to -- vaughn hillyard has unbelievable footage from before and after the trump rallies where they're saying the same sorts of things tucker carlson is saying about putin in ukraine. it feels like there has to be some way to break the fever, and it feels like the people who pay the price are of course the men and women of the military and in the intelligence community who have to shoulder a bigger burden. how do you tell that story? >> consistently. it's memorial day weekend, and arlington cemetery is filled with men and women who died

fighting people like the names he just mentioned. my grandfather and that entire greatest generation went overseas for three, four years at times, to fight the people, the dictators, authoritarians he's now praising. i think we have to call him out on that. uniform, anybody who served this country have to continue to call out his patriotism and call out another component, that he and many in the far right have continued to double down on, just crapping on america all the time, dumping, saying how weak our military is, how bad this country is. it's unacceptable. and our enemies celebrate that as well. to have a former commander of chief saying it out loud in a way that bolsters the agenda of our enemies is disgusting. and i think memorial day is a good reminder of what's at stake. a lot of people are going to go to the beach and have a barbecue and a lot of my friends will be at the cemetery reflecting on what it means. >> cornell, i think this is something to feel optimistic about. i sometimes am disheartened

about the divisions in the country and i covered this story all week about the smears against the fbi, and i think anyone with a loved one, mom or dad or husband or wife serving in law enforcement, has to feel genuine terror at the lies being told about -- trump saying they were there to assassinate him. it's a dangerous lie. but i think as the fall inches ever closer and people sit around and think about where their own fault lines are, it's different for every person, talking about the jurors in new york, we have no idea what registers. but i think historically, the reverence for the people who serve our country and have paid with their lives and who they fought. they fought the people trump wraps both of his arms and legs around from the rally speeches, from the campaign trail day in and day out. >> yeah, and i think that's really important, nicolle. there is some upside in this conversation about democracy, that i think is catching on in a

way that i haven't seen globally. and i was at the state dinner last night where we hosted the president of kenya, and what broke out was a conversation about the importance of democracy. not only here in america, but also across the globe and in africa, in a way that i had not seen or heard before. so there's a real rise, and this understanding of the importance of democracy and many of our allies around the world rooting for democracy here with the understanding that if democracy fails here, god help us around the globe. i also, nicolle, wanted to do a rejoinder to john, because i think it's an interesting topic we should take up in the coming days, around trump and conventional issues. and that trump should talk about the economy and that trump should talk about the border and trump is better off talking about conventional issues.

here is what would be my slight pushback and we should have a conversation about that, is this, if you're the biden campaign, quite frankly, you would welcome a conversation about the economy and that, yeah, trump had the advantage over the economy just like mitt romney and bush had an advantage and every republican has had an advantage on border and immigration issues. but i think the president and the biden campaign is saying, look, if the conversation is about the economy, we have a clear choice from a policy standpoint of where we stand on everything from taxing the rich to student loan debt, to taking on price gouging that we can have a rational conversation. i think we would much rather have that conversation than a conversation about millions of illegal immigrants pouring across the border, turning the election and turning the tide.

if someone believes that, it's not a pursuable conversation to have. i think it would be an interesting topic. i wish we talked more about substantive issues that make differences between these two candidates moving forward. >> cornell, i would much rather have this conversation, thank you for shifting it back. i love when anyone challenges john because he welcomes it as well. because i guess my question for you is, my sense from working on the republican campaigns and some successful, some colossal failures, is that the campaign speaking to the gut usually has a strategic advantage. and as abhorrent as trump's issues are, they get to the gut of his base. and i think a lot of people's concern about the policy debates, at least the way democrats have traditionally waged those debates, they don't get to the gut in a way that gives them an advantage on election day. where do you come down on that?

>> that's a great question, that's why you do what you do. i think republicans have been very masterful of speaking to the gut and more to the heart and democrats, especially progressives, try to have an intellectual conversation and think everything is a rational transaction. if i give you a minimum wage increase, you will give me your vote, as opposed to understanding that most people make sense of their lives through the prism of their values and often their religion. so you have to speak to both. there's a candidate over my shoulder, two candidates over my shoulder who were democrats who i thought did a very good job of speaking to both. hope and change isn't exactly a ten-point policy session. it is about sort of who we are, what we want to be and what we believe. it is an emotional thing. i think, whether it be democrat or republican, the best thing is

to do both. >> i want to give tim miller the last word on the other side. don't go anywhere. (husband) we just want to have enough money for retirement. (wife) and travel to visit our grandchildren. (fisher investments) i understand. that's why at fisher investments we start by getting to know each other. so i can learn about your family, lifestyle, goals and needs, allowing us to tailor your portfolio. (wife) what about commission-based products? (fisher investments) we don't sell those. we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in your best interest. (husband) so how do your management fees work? (fisher investments) we have a transparent fee,

structured so we do better when you do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different.

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tim miller, i promised to pull you into this conversation. you and cornell actually had the job of taking an issue to a voter and you understand what they think. jump in on all of this. we've been hotly debating during the break how you feel with the

way people feel about the economy versus the way it really is. what's your advice for a biden candidacy on this front? >> look, i think that biden needs to make this thing a referendum about trump and that is the issue that gets to people's guts. i think this is a little bit of an academic argument over whether this campaign can be on the issues or whether it can be on trump's outbursts. trump can't control himself. trump can't just talk about the border, but he's not capable. maybe he could do ten days like 2016, but i doubt it. maybe two days at best. this issue, this needs to be about trump and joe biden has to make a case that he's a risk on the economy, and that is what i can relate to the nikki haley endorsement. joe biden has got to go out and say, hey, this economy is on the right track. do you know what donald trump

wants to do? he wants to put a 10% tariff on everything. he wants to tear up the constitution. are you sure you want to place your chips on that? are you sure you want to place your chips on this crazy person, that who knows what they're going to do and their stated plans are scary as it is. and i think that is how he takes this issue and makes it more to the gut, as you were advising, nicolle. >> tim, i also think the message on the economy is the same thing as the message on democracy, this is the same thing as the message on abortion. instability is the absolute worst thing you can do for my country's economy. you go ask all of the entrepreneurs in hungary how they fared and they were friends with orban they did fantastic until he got pissed, if not, they were out of there. we haven't had an honest conversation about the economic consequences of political instability. when trump is running on it, that's what he's promising. and you don't hear anyone on any side really take that head on. >> amen.

me, i've been saying that. >> you and me. >> i'm with you. >> you, me and you. >> any wall street journal republican in your life that comes to you, are you sure you want to place a bet on the stock market with this guy? maybe it did well until 2019. but you saw how he managed covid. are you really willing to take a bet on 10% tariffs, where he feels emboldened on his authoritarian impulses or woke capital. that's not a risk that's worth taking and i think it's a risk that a lot of center right types are not taking nearly seriously enough and that could be a compelling message for biden. >> perhaps the most compelling is what our friends, our democratic allies in ukraine, the price they're paying with their lives, economy, country, infrastructure, with their freedom, to fight our enemy in vladimir putin. you're taking that on.

>> yeah. it's memorial day weekend, and we're reflecting on all the people, of all the generations that died in defense of freedom. at the same time, there's a country holding a line in favor of freedom right now, ukraine, our friends are fighting and dying in ukraine. american veterans overwhelmingly support ukraine and we're tired of seeing them not get enough support. we're organizing and letting america know that american veterans support ukraine. let the people of ukraine know that american veterans support ukraine. we understand the stakes, the loss, we understand combat, we understand that you are the good guys and that putin is the bad guy, and we're putting a group together to held zelenskyy get the ammunition, funding, and also the political support here at home, public awareness support here at home and ensure that ukraine ultimately wins. it's about victory and we want to support that. >> it was said on this program that the delay costs lives. >> absolutely. you can't win a fight with one hand denied behind your back.

we're making zelenskyy play a war of mother may i. nobody can win that. if you were told as outsiders to not punch back, you would tell them to take a walk. zelenskyy needs to know there are tens of millions of veterans, and independents, democrats need to know that american veterans stand with ukraine. it's about our freedom, not just theirs. >> in terms of gut issues, if you look at the candidates and you want to know who stands with their ally, who stands with our adversary. >> they need to be called out not just by politicians but patriots. we have co-founders that have been veterans and making change in washington. if you want to oppose ukraine, you're going against a majority of veterans in america. >> it's incredible. i'm grateful to have all of you

on any day, but on a day when i was grappling with a mini health crisis, i'm grateful. i'm sure if you roll the tape, there are plenty of such examples, which i'm sure somebody will do. when we come back, we'll have a peek at my conversation with one of my friends, whoopi goldberg.

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the icon whoopi goldberg is out with a deeply personal new memoir, "bits and pieces: my mother, brother and me". i had a chance to sit down and talk with her about the book and she told us about life with her mom emma and her brother clyde, who she says she is so lucky to have as her family. here is some of the conversation. >> i knew your brother, i didn't get to know your mom. but i cried on every page. i want to tell me some of the stories you tell in the book. you grew up in new york city. >> uh-huh. >> your mother made magic. >> yeah. >> she made magic of christmas, she made magic of coney island, she made magic in your life. and i knew you and the magic of you, i didn't know how that was

seeded by your mom. will you tell us some of the stories about coney island? >> i will. but i guess that's part of why i wrote it, because people have asked me about them over the years, and i didn't really know how to explain it. but my mother and my brother were kind of spectacular people, and i have to say, you know, i didn't always behave, we had ou. but bigger than that was that i always felt that i knew who i was because of them. and my mother goes through something that i write about in the book, and years and years and years later, i said, i think

it was good that this happened to me. because it really gave me an idea of the fact that the world can change on a dime and things happen. and she then told my brother and i a story that stunned us that i'll leave in hopes that you buy the book. but coney island, you know, coney island was free. you know, you could go and do things. you get on the train. and i grew up on the train. you know, and she just understood that you want to keep your kids as kids as long as possible and that is something that i really understood. and i tried to emulate when i had my kid. >> you could watch the full conversation with whoopi goldberg up live right now on youtube find it at

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ask your doctor about kisqali today. a year after a heart attack, mike's feeling like and lon himself again. but even though time has passed, his risk of a second attack hasn't. mike is still living in the red. with a very high risk of another heart attack or stroke. he doesn't know with his risk factors his ldl-c (bad cholesterol) is still too high - the recommended level is below 55. are you living in the red? get in the know. learn how to get a free ldl-c test at attackheartdisease.com. type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. ♪ ♪ i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight. in studies, the majority of people reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. i'm under 7. ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as stroke, heart attack, or death in adults also with known heart disease. i'm lowering my risk. adults lost up to 14 pounds. i lost some weight.

ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop ozempic® and get medical help right away if you get a lump or swelling in your neck, severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. gallbladder problems may occur. tell your provider about vision problems or changes. taking ozempic® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may increase low blood sugar risk. side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration, which may worsen kidney problems. living with type 2 diabetes? ask about the power of 3 with ozempic®. a special return to the white house last night. for former president barack obama. he made an appearance at the state dinner for kenyan president william routo. president obama whose father was kenyan made his cameo after meeting with the president earlier in the day to discuss climate change and security challenges in africa. the biden white house pulled out

all of the stops rolling out the actual red carpet for the largest state dinner president biden's presidency so far and a guest list to match with members from the biten family and vice president kamala harris and bill and hillary clinton and a host of high-profile allies and entertainment from country superstar brad paisley and the gospel choir of harvard university. but whether asked this week when he plans on visiting africa, president biden responded cheeky saying he plans on going in february, after re-election. i started the show with an update on my dental health and let me end with an update from the heart. my heart is full of gratitude for katy tur. let me tell what you happened before 4:00 p.m. today here in this building. it was about 3:54 p.m. when my bre producer and i figured and decided that i was in no condition to anchor. katy was still on the air.

she learned after she had signed offer that i was in desperate need of on air rescue and without skipping a beat, she leapt to begin my program with an interview with leader hakeem jeffries and came to my aid and anchored a fantastic hour of "deadline: white house." if you are lucky enough to have a colleague like that, do me a favor and shoot her or him a text and thank them just for being who they are today. katy tur, i thank you for having my back in such a meaningful way today. and i thank all of you for joining us, a special edition, two hours of joy reid and the reid out starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. k break. don't go anywhere.

(husband) we just want to have enough money for retirement. (wife) and travel to visit our grandchildren. (fisher investments) i understand. that's why at fisher investments we start by getting to know each other. so i can learn about your family, lifestyle, goals and needs, allowing us to tailor your portfolio. (wife) what about commission-based products? (fisher investments) we don't sell those.

we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in your best interest. (husband) so how do your management fees work? (fisher investments) we have a transparent fee, structured so we do better when you do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. look at that! the broccoli was fantastic. that broccoli! i think some of them were six, seven pounds.

tonight on a special two-hour edition of the reid out. >> people say to me, could i ask you a question. how d