tonight on a special two-hour edition of the reid out. >> people say to me, could i ask you a question. how do you do it?

i say, do what? how do you get up in the morning an put your pants on. i'll explain it to you some day because we've been talking about politics so long, i'm o.d.ed on politics. i'm od-ed on trump. trump, trump, trump. >> and debunking the lies about black and brown voters following his rally in the bronx. and trump's trial will also come to an end. while his other cases get slow walked by a friendly judge and the supreme court. plus congresswoman jasmine crockett joins me following her epic take down of marg greene and which shaz sparked in amazing music which she is now trademarking. and stick around for our second hour and my full interview with brittney griner an how she survived in a russian gulag.

her home coming and much more, including bonus content that has never aired before. you do not want to miss it. but we begin tonight with donald trump's preoccupation with crowd size. which continued in an unhinged bronx rally where he boasted of huge crowds of 25,000 plus. is that what you see here? 25,000 people. well based on the police department and the maps and the existence of eyeballs, you could see that trump once again is lying. it is a lie that launched a thousand memes with folks comparing this paltry scene with what constitutes a crowd of 20,000. like the crowd andrea bocelli drew at the barkley center but this rally for barack obama in iowa, ouch, that has got to hurt. because if anything triggered donald trump, it is the obama factor. remember back there 2017 on that awful day for american history when trump was inaugurated

president. he predicted huge crowds for his ceremony. bigger than obama's. but then these photos famously showed a view of the crowd on the national mall at the inaugurations of obama on the left and trump on the right. both images were shot shortly before noon from the top of the washington monument. the lies continue to this day. just a couple of weeks ago, a raucous beach front rally in new jersey drew between 80 and 100,000 people according to officials but they later said the number reflected not how many people were at the rally, but it was the number of people, quote, in our town. make it make sense. or rather don't. we know the absurdity is the point. this is a thing with donald trump. an overinflated feeling of self. and you know who else does that? dictators. knowing people will believe any narrative they are fed. and we know this about donald

trump. but this is also about the media taking the bait. with reportings on trump's crowd size snatching the headlines. this is a call for shoe leather reporting. was anyone at this rally asked if they are actually from the bronx. because the bronx, boasted a majority of latino and blue voters. in that crowd, it looked awfully white. it is trying to convince that black and brown americans are really into trump. if trump was lying on the stage, this is what new yorkers were saying on the ground. >> nobody who is authentically from the bronx is willing to co-sign and xenophobia and misogyny and all of the things that this guy represents. >> donald trump knows that he's not welcome in the bronx. >> do you think there is any people you know in the bronx or friends that would consider voting for him? >> no.

i don't know anybody that would vote for him. >> doesn't fit trump's narrative, does it. and think about it. if trump has so many supporters in new york, why aren't they show up in droves to support him at his trial where the courthouse is literally just a subway ride away. this is tuesday. one supporter. usually there are none. trust me. i've been there. and to top off this tomfoolery, trump voted buy lon donald as a potential vice president pick. the one black guy that republicans love to roll out as fake proof that black people, the blacks are just maga. they're maga. it is a joke. and just as credible as when they pretended they would make that guy speaker of the house. because they weren't going to do that either. joining me now is michael steele, co-host of the weekend on msnbc. michael tam askii and clay cane,

host of the clay cane show and author of the "new york times" best-selling book "the grift." we were on the list at the same time. >> we were. >> let's talk about this. this particularly bothered me. because my godmother, my jamaica godmother lived in the bronx. that is where i lived after college and after that i went and lived with my godmother so i lived in the south bronx. i know what the people are like. that ain't it. what they are trying to show. they trying to use this location and little crowd which they inflated to make it look like it is black and brown people that are donald trump's base. does it sir tate you as much as it does me. >> i've been in the area for almost 25 years and talk about pandering and talk about lies, and lies and more lies. he's in the south bronx but the bx is not there with him. local news were people were traveling there from pennsylvania and tennessee and so on. and then i think about to show

us how he cares about black and brown voters he brought out two rappers who have been accused of murder. that is what he thinks -- and this year marks 25 -- i'm sorry 35 years since you he accused of five black men of being rapists and called for their execution. and since he pulled out the ad in "the new york times." >> and salam represents a district not far from there. so he thought that those kids were garbage. he wanted them dead. that is the guy who -- anybody would is black, like byron donald who is from brooklyn like me. his family is caribbean american like mine and he knows better than this. i grew up around the time of the central park five and that is why i never watched the apprentice. anybody black that knows anything about donald trump thinks the way i do. that is why he got 10% or 20% when he ran here. new yorkers don't like him. >> and when he was running for

office -- >> come on, we tried to tell you. >> and in d.c., why isn't he in florida in his district? >> go back to your district. and you're not going to be vice president. they were going to make me speaker trying to convince us of that. don't let people rub you in your head. that is my advice to you. i know you're a hip-hop man. chef g and sleepy hallow. now i'm aware they were both accused of murder in 140 count indictment. so donald trump's pitch to us is gold sneakers, and two rappers who were accused of murder. that is what he thinks of black people. as somebody, michael steele, who tried to expand the ranks of black support in the republican party, what do you think of that? >> it is an embarrassing affront to all of the work and effort that african americans are trying to create within their community and trying to get people to pay attention to, the

young african american boys and girls who are working their way through school, who just graduated from hbcus this year and from major institutions to set a course for themselves of the american dream. so as a presidential candidate, you want to remind us that we're nothing more than rappers with 140 felony counts against them including murder. oh, by the way, we're going to save you on your cigarettes because we know you like smoking their cigarettes and wearing those sneakers. it is all been a lie. it is all been portrayed in a way -- and this is part that i find the most offensive, when members of our own community promote this crap. >> come on. >> and you don't speak honestly, byron, that is a problem. so you might as well stand on that stage and instead of throwing out maga hats, just

throw out a pair of golden sneakers because that is essentially what it is. and so if that is all you could bring to us, then stay your ass home. >> hello. >> we don't need it. >> he literally through paper towels at puerto ricans. that was his hitch to hispanics and he have marco rubio who knows better who used to be a commentator on rudy who knows better. who is now okay with them locking up people like him and putting them in camps. you could find someone in the community that is willing to clarence thomas it out. and clarence thomas who thinks brown v. board was overly decided and went too far. and that guy. and you have a baby version of him in byron donald. it is embarrassing. >> real quick, joy, how does clarence thomas get a -- >> a goodly white billionaire will help him. i think he does believe in the largesse of a good rich person

so he thinks he's fine as long as there is a goodly white billionaire. he doesn't care about anyone else. i have to bring michael in here. there is a great series in the new republic, i hope you check it out. because the other piece of this, michael, is the media. the media has got to stand in the way of fascism here. i foe they don't want to take a side. this is what american fascism would look like. talk about the media's responsibility here, michael, in the terms of the way we talk about this stuff and things like did he get a massive record crowd of black and brown people in the bronx. >> we're way past the time, joy, when we could do this side and that side kind of journalism when it relates to donald trump and this side said this and that side said that and the truth is somewhere in the middle. that is a traditional approach to objective journalism. we can't have that.

now, i'm not saying that the media should be schilling for joe biden or apologizing for joe biden or trying to see to it that joe biden wins the election. no, absolutely not. however, the media does have to be standing for the values of democracy. and the values of the republic that we live in and that we've been trying to perfect, for 250 years and against the values that would attack that. donald trump very clearly is out to attack those values. he tells us that in one form or another every week. we were preparing that issue of the new republic, and you know, i was wonder if, you know, maybe is this going a little far. but then he comes out with the time magazine interview and i said no, this "time" magazine is every single word we are writing. and the media has to be more blunt and say, look, this man said he is going to do this, he

said he's going to put, you know, try to deport and round up millions and millions of people. what would that look like? we need a series of what that would look like and what that could do to families as jamel wrote in that column today, families that are taxpayer people. it's -- it's sad. >> it is sad. and let me -- and i think what is also sad, clay, is the audition process that we've seen. tim scott humiliating himself and marco rubio humiliating himself. and they're all out there shucking and diving to get donald trump to look at them and trying to get him to rub their tummies. here is byron donald's version. >> you are not responding to a very simple question about a conspiracy theory that you voices. >> what conspiracy theory. >> that the fbi by having on a document that they are

authorized to use deadly force was trying to harm or assassinate former president trump. that is false. will you acknowledge that? >> could i be very clear with you? >> sure. >> i'm not sure what merrick garland is trying to do these days. >> so it is clear, that you would not acknowledge -- >> it is being weaponized against donald trump, that is clear. >> you could only embarrass for him, and god bless abby philip for trying to hold him to account. but the real pick is someone like tom cotton, because he's willing to defend slavery and say it was the worst best option. he wants to send in troops to attack people with black lives matter and to send in troops to harm them. he referred to slavery i think as necessary evil. double down on comments urging em to forcibly remove protests. he's the violent openly fine with racism if you ain't, he's open to it. that is the kind of guy trump

wants. byron donald is not. >> for all of the tap dancing that byron donald was doing, there was not a reward for yourin decency. you will be go in history as being a disservice to the history of black republicans, to the history of the gop. you're not going to be rewarded for it. and to see byron donaldco signing some bizarre conspiracy theory that trump is going to be assassinated or killed by the doj or fbi, that is what a cult leader said. jim jones said that in 1978. that the government is trying to come after me. and for you to co-sign that, it is just shameful. >> and he's had some experience with the criminal justice system when he was young and had some financial crimes. >> and they showed leniency to him. >> so he knows the criminal justice system firsthand. and michael steele, this is what the democrats, joe biden, they have an ad out featuring the great robert de niro.

let's play that. >> from midnight tweets to drinking bleach, to teargassing citizens and staging a photo op. we knew trump was out ever control when he was president. and then he lost the 2020 election and snapped. desperately trying to hold on to power and now he's running again, this time threatening to be a dictator. trump wants revenge and he'll stop at nothing to get it. >> okay, former rnc chair, pikal steele, is that a good retort? >> that is a good retort. and you know what i like about that ad. this is the takeaway, he's snapped. he's napped. in all of the connotation that goes with those two words about trump are culminated in that moment, in that imagery. and i think it is a very powerful response. i was talking with some folks today about how it seems the democrats are getting a little bit more mojo in playing the tit-for-tat game.

because politics is not just about oh, okay i respond if i get hit. sometimes you have to lean in and lay a shot or two first to draw the opponent out. this ad does that on a number of things. it responds in one sense but it also projected a little bit forward to capture the next time donald trump said something that is bad, you know what crazy, he snapped. >> very quickly. last word to you, michael, give us a piece of advice on what we should be doing to counter this oncoming fascism steaming toward us. >> warn our friends and neighbors and relatives about the things that donald trump said. let's not talk about what he did as president from 2016 to 2020. let he's talk about what he says he's going to do. he's laid it all out there for us and made it plane. he's going to take a wrecking ball to democracy. every voter doesn't care about that but i have to think a critical mass of voters do care. >> we certainly hope so.

michael steele and michael tamaskii and tim kane. thank you. and for the first criminal trial of the a former president coming to a close. what to expect, coming up next. . what to expect, coming up next the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. and it could strike at any time. think you're not at risk? wake up. because shingles could wake up in you. if you're over 50, talk to your doctor or pharmacist about shingles prevention. power e*trade's easy-to-use tools, like dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis, help make trading feel effortless. and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market. e*trade from morgan stanley with powerful, easy-to-use tools, power e*trade makes complex trading easier. react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting and a futures ladder that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders so you won't miss an opportunity. e*trade from morgan stanley centrum!

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so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. on tuesday, closing arguments will begin in donald trump's hush money trial. it will be exactly one week since the 12-member jury was last in the new york city courtroom. lawyers for each side will have

their chance to refresh the juror's memory and since neither side is allowed to present new evidence, the closing arguments could only sum up the facts and evidence already presented during the trial. so the prosecution, that includes a damning amount of both direct and circumstantial evidence in trump's involvem in the falsification of business records to cover up the conspiracy to influence the 2016 election by unlawful means as presented by their 20 different witnesses. and for the defense, they're strategy is to hope that one juror will not accept that mountain ever evidence and will instead question the credibility of the testimony from trump's former lawyer michael cohen. just as important, if not more so, following those closing arguments, judge juan merchan will read off the jury instructions. at that point trump's fate will

be in the hands of his 12-member jury of his peers. joining me now is joyce vance professor from the alabama school of law and legal analyst. and andrew weissmann, msnbc legal analyst and former federal prescription. i want to let each of you, and i'll do ladies first, tell me what you expect to see happen in the summation and you could try to anticipate for us what you think those jury instructions might look like? >> yeah, so two really important questions, joy. you know, it is a little bit frustrating being a lawyer in a trial because in opening statements, all you can do is predict to the jury what you think the evidence will be. you can't make any arguments about what it means. you can't do that when you're asking witnesses questions. but closing argument, that is the time you get to let loose and share with the jury your views of what the evidence means when you stack it all up

together. it doesn't always come in seccen shall order, and sometimes we have to have custodians of records. this is opportunity to explain to the jury, here is how all of the evidence adds up to guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. and these are extraordinarily good prosecutors. it is a fine job and a tough case. i think we'll hear them arm the jurors with good arguments this he could take into the room so wild they are deliberating if there are some among the jury less persuaded they'll have the evidence in the order they need it to have that conversation with their fellow jurors. and the jury instructions play a big role in that. because they are the law that the jurors are to apply. you know, there is this kerfuffle about whether or not trump could put an on expert witness about election law and the judge said no, that is my job. i get to tell the jury what the law is. that is what he'll do when he instructed them. i don't know if andrew has the

same reaction. it makes me uncomfortable, i'm used to having the instruction written in stone before i argue because that is what the judge will tell you about the law and that may happen a little bit differently here. but the judge is the authority who tells the jurors what laws to use. >> so andrew, from the prosecutor's point of view, what kind ever instructions do they want to hear and what do you think the defense wants to hear? >> so i'm going to kind of resist the question. >> okay. >> for this reason. i sort of feel like there has been too much emphasis on the jury instructions. as joy said, they're important, but i don't think there are a lot of open issues here and i think we're going down a rabbit hole and part of that is the d.a. bragg is not going to charge a case if he was trying to get an instruction that was an outlier and needed to convince the judge of something unusual. and the judge said that.

he said i'm sort of playing it right down the fairway. i'm going to give standard instructions. >> okay. >> and the standard instructions are pretty clear in this kind of case. this is a -- the law here is not that complicated. >> right. >> so i don't -- people ask me sort of like what are you waiting for in the jury instructions and my answer was not a lot. >> just the regular stuff. i guess the reason i ask you that question, andrew, is that there has been a lot of talk about whether or not an instruction could include a misdemeanor option. which would give the jurors an out if they think that the conduct was wrong, but not a felony. >> okay. that is -- i'm not going to -- >> we're not going to resist. >> that is a great question. so, in order to answer that, you need to understand that in order to bring a charge, it has to be brought within a certain amount of time. for misdemeanors, you have to bring the charge within two years. for felonies you have a longer amount of time. the two-year period has run out.

in other words, they were not brought in time. so the state can't ask for the lesser included offense. >> got it. >> sometimes they wouldn't want to ask for that. they wouldn't want to give the jury that option but here they don't have the ability. it is for state, it is felony or nothing. they don't get to say judge, we would like the lesser included and the judge can't say i would like to charge it. the defendant can. the defendant can say, i'm going to waive my right that you should have brought this on time. i'm going to ask for it and you do that when you're thinking, you know what, would you rather get convicted of a misdemeanor than a felony and i'm concerned about it. and so far donald trump has not asked for that lesser included offense. he could change his mind. but i don't think he will. i think he's going to go for sort of all or nothing. >> he wants all or nothing. he's going for nullification. >> nullification and hammering as hard as he can, and his side is going to say michael cohen is indispensable to the case and he

provides reasonable doubt because of all ever his bad acs and state will be saying he's not and he's highly corroborating. >> and he's highly corroborating and the only sort of material witness that trump's put on was a disaster. and let me talk about a lot of other stuff. this is happening while, joyce, judge cannon has snuffed out the case about the documents. i think that seems to be over. and while the supreme court, after taking 25 days, rapid fire, to get trump back on the ballot, is now slow walking the immunity case which is now holding up all of the other cases. so everything seems to be stalled. and i just want to get your -- i know you wrote about this. so the fact that judge cannon seems to be a partisan, that samuel alito obviously is a partisan which he said is his wife's fault and clarence thomas is a partisan. but of the three, the one that is most obvious is alito. the fact that it feels to a lot

of people out here like this is no longer, these aren't even courts any more, these are just politicians making these decisions. do you feel as cynical as i now do about both of those two courts, the florida court and the supreme court? >> you know, isn't this really a sitting epilogue for the trump era where trump spent so much time diminishing our institutions and bashing them and now we're at a moment in time when we need to have confidence in the courts and it is tough to muster. and i mean, judge cannon in florida, it is unbelievable to watch a judge complain and say that she can't schedule a case for trial because there are so many pending motions. when there are so many pending motions because she's spent months dragging her feet and not ruling on motions. it is really a tough sell. justice alito, it is the same sort of deal. there have been lingering ethical issues with both he and justice thomas that court has

refused to address. they adopted this sort of milk toast nonbinding ethical set of guidelines, but now we have a situation where we have a justice and this is not just a small thing, this is a justice who now on two occasions has been identified as taking a publicly partisan stance. that is something that judges do not do. i will tell you as the wife of a judge, and the daughter-in-law of a judge, that even as a family member, you're very careful. you don't view it as a restriction. you view it as part of honor and the integrity of the judiciary for people who are lucky enough to be involved in that service. i think, joy, to answer your question, your right to be having a crisis of confidence. we're entitled to exact more of our institutions than this particular supreme court is delivering. >> and i mean, and two very quick points to you, andrew, it shows me john roberts contempt for the court. he no longer is embarrassed and worried about her reputation.

it is obvious he doesn't care. and this is all happening at the just department. i have a lot of issues with merrick garland. the son of the president is going to trial, spit spot, on does he falsify a gun application. this is a two tiered justice system and john roberts clearly doesn't care. >> with respect to merrick garland and the hunter biden case, this is just remember, that the attack on merrick garland is and that trump makes on the justice system is that he has been unfairly targeted and this is a justice department that is prosecuting currently the sitting president's son. >> correct. >> and so the idea that this is a partisan department of justice is belied by the facts. and to the point of delay, one,

there is the -- what we know is justice delayed is justice denied, thurgood marshal used that in brown v. board. >> the case that clarence thomas thought was too overly proud? >> and merrick garland would be on the supreme court if it wasn't for delayed justice in congress. you have delayed justice by judge cannon that is preventing a case in the public from having its day in court. you have the supreme court now delaying the insurrection case in d.c. and for all we flow, it is because of justice's alito and thomas -- >> that is right. >> and and the effort of mitch mcconnell to not implement things on a timely basis is a way to thwart the legal system. >> what they have not delayed is hunter biden's trial. thank you both very much. coming up, i'm still not over this moment.

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do you know what we're here for. you know we're here about -- >> i think you know what we're

here for. >> but you -- >> i think your fake eyelashes are messing up -- >> hold on, hold on. >> order. mr. chairman. >> order. >> get order of your commity. >> to better understanding this ruling, if someone on committee starts talking about someone's bleach blond bad built butch body, that would not be engaging in personalities correct? >> a what now? >> a what now? >> it is friday and this is point in the program where we play our favorite game of who won the week. but since this is a special two-hour edition, we figured we could do something different and followed a house bully takedown that went viral and it was even trademarked and will be rolled out as part of a crockett clap back and with varietiable deluge of musical renditions, including

this one. ♪♪ ♪♪ >> joining us now is the winner of the week, representative jasmine crockett of texas. and by the way, that is not even my favorite one. my favor one is king malone. the version of it. let me ask you this. because a lot of people listen to that and they said this lady clearly had a plan ready. when did you think of this? did this just pop into your head because the letter of the day was b? what is happening? >> definitely b was stuck in hi head but i needed to use it appropriately. listen, i did not have this locked and loaded. after the chairman decided he was going to rule that way, in the midst of me trying to get his attention so i could do a inquiry and i looked over at her and i started from her head to her toes. sos that why i started with

bleach blond. my granny used to have a say that if you are bad built, like old black women say what they say and that was an ode to my granny. and then obviously -- >> it went viral. it definitely had black grandma vibes which is why i think you're so young to have that -- but the thing i think the reason is resonated to be serious, is that marjorie taylor greene is a bully. she's not a legislator. she's not created anything and she's not created anything positive in congress. other than bullying people. and she started out bullying you in a kay that was clearly racialized. i read that as a racialized attacks and she did it to aoc and so many and aoc did come to your defense. what is it like having to be in a legislative body which is supposed to be a prestigious institution with someone like her? >> yeah, it is completely

unproductive. but listen, she is showing the world who she is and the fact that the republicans continue to give her cover, it tells us who they are as well. now they want to disassociate themselves from her but in reality when you don't check her, you are basically complicit in the things that she does. and it is my understanding she's the fifth highest raising and the four higher than her are all in leadership. i don't know if she shares her money, but for some of them, we're able to get some money and we're also able to keep trump off our backs. so they just let it go. i will tell you that i've had thumbs up, winks, and comments from the other side. some said i like your lashes. nobody is coming to her defense and they're ought patting me on my back. so, yeah. >> let me play another moment that went viral for you and this was very poignant. take a look. >> it did not seem as if my

colleague understood that someone can be diverse and qualified. and it is why you have people like me that get very frustrated, not just in the halls of congress, but in general this this country. >> there are those that would make some people believe that because i happen to be black and or a woman, that somehow even though i can rattle off all of the qualifications in the world, my blackness makes me unqualified. >> i think one of the reasons that you have become to beloved by so many people, even if their not political, is that you used your platform to do things like that. it is not just the funny viral moments ever you taking down a bully. if you see black women who are in public spaces and who are facing what you're facing, all of the accomplishments being thrown away and you pointed out that snap benefits go to rural communities and not black people. you're using your platform well.

what do you want to accomplish and to be your big accomplishments? >> i want people to truly feel like their represented. we're supposed to live in a representative government, for far too long representative government in this country has meant old white men and there are so many people that felt like their stories, and their experiences and that they were left out of the conversation and i don't believe that i have the privilege of sitting at this table and not amplifying the struggles that we're experiencing. and the reality is that i sit in congress yet for whatever reason i experience these as well. it doesn't matter what level you attain, sometimes there are those that are always going to pretend as if you are lesser than simply because you are a woman or that you are a person of color. >> amen. and i want to acknowledge this is the two year anniversary of uvalde slaying in texas thank you jasmine crockett, we see you, because we know that you see us. we appreciate you.

you won the week. and coming up -- >> love you. >> and coming up at the top of the hour, my full interview with wnba tar brittney griner on how she survived in a russian gulag. her home coming and including bonus content that has never been aired before. you don't want to miss it. we'll be right back. k. an alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the source. voltaren, the joy of movement.

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2019 that chesley crist was crowned miss usa. tragically less than three years after that moment, crist, who was also an attorney and tv correspondent for extra, died by suicide at the age of 30. crist sent a devastating text to mer mother april simp kirns that began by the time you get this, i wouldn't be alive any more. detailing the private suffering she had endured writing, i can not bear the crushing weight of persistent sadness and hopelessness and loneliness any longer. her story continues in a new book, by the time you read this, the space between chesley's thi space between chessly's smile and mental illness. written by crist and finished after her death by her mother who i had a chance to speak with. april, thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> i can't imagine your grief. i can't imagine finishing my daughter's book. what give you -- what caused you to want to do this, and it was at her request? >> yes. in her final text message, she

left her final wishes. and one of her wishes was that her book be published. and so i took that as a charge. and pursued getting her book published. >> you know, i mean, i think that we tend to think of people like chesley who seem to have everything. she was not just a beauty queen, one of three black women who were crowned in pageants at the same time. i remember posting that on my social media when it happened. but she was also a lawyer. she was an athlete. she seemed to be -- she had it all. she was beautiful. what could she have not been? i think somebody like that, people think they can't possibly be depressed. they must be happy. is that what she fell into, the sort of difference between the perception of her and the reality? >> i think that's where people put her. you know, if all of the markers of her achievement and her success could cure mental illness, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. but i think for many people,

there's a belief that all of those successes will somehow impact a mental illness, and unfortunately, it does not. >> and i feel like there's also a conversation about depression. and black women in particular don't have it. there's the idea of the strong black woman. you're fine, and so no one can believe that somebody like cheslie can be depressed. how do we get past that? i we open up conversations. that's why we finished this book, to see her face on the book and know someone like her with so many markers of success was struggling. in our community, the black community, we have got to start these conversations. our young people are suffering. our women are suffering. our men are suffering. and all in silence because of the stigma associated with mental illness. >> and our suicide rates in this country are really staggering. they're growing day by day. and one of the things that

cheslie struggled with was the bullying online. even someone as successful and gorgeous as her, she was still getting harassed online. >> that's right. you know, social media can be a good thing, and it can be a very bad thing, especially for your mental health. while she had ways of trying to pull the tools out of her toolbox and not internalize some of the bullying that she got, i would be remiss if i said it never got to her. of course it got to her. >> and i said to you before the start, you're a superhero for writing this. i'm not sure i would have been strong enough to do it. if you can, talk to me about that moment that you got that text. did you think maybe she was not being serious? what did you think when you got that text? >> honestly, i think as someone who had been her support person and was there for her after her first attempt, i didn't know if,

you know, i knew she would never send me a text like that if there wasn't truth and fact behind it. but i have heard just in studying and understanding suicide and mental illness that there are times when people will reach out because they don't want to leave. and so when i got that, i thought, then we have time to save her. we've got time to get there to her. and even in reading her final text, when she said, you know, i don't want to leave you, but for her, it was the only way she saw to cure that pain. and i really hope that conversations around mental illness continue to open up. there's a piece of that that many people don't understand. that's why they default to all of these things externally that she had as achievement. assuming that that somehow should cure her mental illness, but that's not the way it works.

>> what should we look for? you talked about her sending a care package, but this contains some of her things. >> hindsight is 20/20. i have learned now that sometimes when people are planning to leave us through death, they will begin to give their things away. and so, you know, hindsight 20/20, perhaps that's what was going on with her. there are a number of signs that people can look for, cheslie had depression and anxiety, but mental illness, while those are the two most common, goes far beyond that. and so, when it comes to things like ocd, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, what do those signs look like? and you know, one thing i love about being a nami ambassador is they have put together an exhaustive list of things you can look for, signs, not just in ourselves but in our children, that may trigger something is going on with their mental

health. i have learned as a mental health advocate and i'm learning every day that knowledge is power. and the best way to help others is to learn and go and explore information that's already out there. >> april, you're not just learning, you're teaching every day. you're going to help so many people. thank you so much. you're a supermom, and i'm just so blessed to be able to talk to you. thank you. this is such a valuable conversation. to our viewers, if you or someone you know is struggling or in crisis, help is available. call or text 988, or visit 988lifeline.org. >> and coming up, a second hour of "the reidout" with brittney griner. stay with us. or an unbearable i. this painful, blistering rash can disrupt your life for weeks and could make it hard to be there for your loved ones. shingles could also lead to serious complications that can last for years. if you're over 50,

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