that matters at night. >> brittney griner, i believe a lot of people are going to be buying your jersey. i believe the wnba is going to have its greatest season ever, and i think you are a big part of that. it is heroic how you stood up for yourself and also stood up for other people in the time of your greatest trauma. i want to thank you for writing this book, inc. you for coming in and sitting down with me. god bless you. and when that baby boy comes, tell him he's got an extra godmother. >> and that's tonight's readout. you can follow me on tiktok and follow our show accounts on instagram and tiktok at the readout. at evening, and welcome to a special two hour addition of alex wagner tonight. happy memorial day weekend. nothing says three-day weekend like barbecuing, summer jams, and rigorous analysis of the first ever criminal trial of a

u.s. president. so we are all in luck. we know that closing arguments at donald trump's new york hush money trial begin tuesday. they are expected to take most of the day, and then it's a matter of how long it takes a jury to reach a verdict. that is, if they are able to reach a verdict at all. were going to get back to that. but first, let's not forget that this hush money trial is just one of donald trump's many indictments. there was bad news for him this week and one of the other cases against him. and trumps classified documents case, the one in which he is accused by federal prosecutors of illegally hoarding classified documents at mar-a- lago and then trying to hide them from the federal government, newly unsealed documents this week revealed new evidence of more possible obstruction of justice by the former president. quote, once trump realized that security cameras at mar-a-lago could capture his employees moving classified government information that officials were attempting to retrieve as the government issued a subpoena

for the camera footage, trump allegedly assured that they would avoid the cameras when moving boxes. those new revelations were not what donald trump and his allies chose to focus on in these documents. instead, they chose to focus on some random out of context language they pull from the fbi search warrant for mar-a-lago, and pretend that the fbi search, which, as you recall, was arranged in advance with the secret service while donald trump was not at home, was actually a secret attempt by president biden to use the fbi to kill donald trump. i mean, this was so bonkers, even by trump standards. but the fbi took the highly unusual step of issuing a direct response debunking trumps claim. even attorney general merrick garland, who is allergic to stepping into anything that might be construed as political, even he could not let this one slide.

>> that allegation is false, and it is extremely dangerous. the document that is being referred to in the allegation is a justice department standard policy limiting the use of force. as the fbi advises, it is part of a standard operations plan for searches, and in fact, it was even used in the consensual search of president biden's home. >> you can see why trump and his allies would want to distract the substance of the classified documents case. of all the cases against trump, legal experts generally seem to consider the mar-a-lago to the closest to a slamdunk and prosecutorial terms. he tried to hide them, then he tried to hide the evidence that he was hiding them. but of course, it doesn't matter how strong a case is if it never goes to trial. in the trump appointed florida federal judge has postponed

this tile indefinitely as she holds hearing after hearing on increasingly absurd motions from trumps legal team. trumps other federal trial, on charges that he tried to overturn the 2020 election, is also indefinitely postponed as the supreme court waits as long as humanly possible to deliver its ruling on whether the president is completely immune from criminal charges. the argument that trump has full immunity for any criminal act seemed like a stretch, even for the supreme court. another we know that one of the justices flew pro-insurrection flags at two of his homes while the court considered 2020 election cases, now that we know that, anything seems possible. >> one reason the new york hush money case has been able to look ahead is because it's a state case, which means it is out of reach of trumps allies in the federal judiciary. but donald trump has a plan for that. sources tell rolling stone this

week that trump has been speaking to several republicans in congress about passing legislation that would shield former presidents from state prosecutions. trump has even hinted publicly at the strategy right outside of his new york courtroom. >> they think it's a scam, they think it's a joke. i can't believe it's happening to democracy in this country. we have a lot of them do want to come and just say, has lots of laws to stop things like this. >> that is trump they're saying that republican lawmakers making the pilgrimage to his trial shouldn't read stay in washington passed lots of laws to this to stop things like this, meaning the case against donald trump. of course, in order for legislation like that to be passed and signed into law, donald trump would need to be

president with a republican house and a republican senate. it goes without saying that the federal case against him, all of them, would disappear if he returns to the white house. trumps legal fate and his political fate are inextricably intertwined. which is why so much hangs on what happens next week when this hush money trial goes to the jury. no one knows what effect a conviction might have on his presidential bid. but if he is not convicted, trump will obviously treat that as a mouse if legal and political victory. writing today in politico, former political prosecutor lays out a couple ways that jurors could get to a guilty verdict, whether or not they ultimately find michael collins testimony credible or not. but as they point out, the defense only has to convince one juror that there is reasonable doubt on some element of the charges for this case to end in a hung jury, which is a defective acquittal for trump.

it is rare the stuff of movies for a case to plausibly turn on the quality of each side's closing arguments, but this could be one of those cases. so buckle up for next week. 20 me now are george conway, board president for the society for the rule of law in the two and a contributor to the atlantic, charles pullman, former new york executor, and anna bauer, legal fellow" corresponded for l'affaire, focused on the four criminal cases against trump. charles, let me just start first with the strength of the case as it stands right now. i mean, the misdemeanor charge, falsification of business records, seems pretty provable based on what's been presented. i feel like there's a lot of concern about the felony charge and how tight you think the prosecution's case is. >> so there is one very key element to the misdemeanor charge that i think prosecutors should be slightly concerned

about, and that is the word cause. when you are talking about -- to cause someone to falsify business records, we know that donald trump himself was not going to the computer and making the records that ultimately appeared, that were falsified. the notion is, where the question becomes, did he instruct? did he direct? did he advise someone to do that, whether it was weisselberg or not? we know weisselberg's handwriting is all over different things and pieces of evidence. that's what they should be concerned about with respect to the misdemeanor. is the issue of intent. i think that you get there because of the notion of david testimony. it's all on donald trump's mind in relation to the election. you get to establish the intent there, however, with respect to the misdemeanor, it's one of the things i think the prosecutors should be concerned about. the other thing is, this is somewhat of a novel and

convoluted legal hearing, and i think that the jury instructions are going to be pivotal in terms of how straightforward this becomes laid out for all the jurors so that no one gets confused. >> yeah. george, when we hear about the first criminal trial of a u.s. president, does it concern you that the legal strategy here in terms of the prosecution's novel? does that worry you? >> i don't actually think it's not novel. the manhattan district attorney's office uses this statute a lot and uses it in combination with the requirement that there be a cover-up of another crime to establish felonies. and i mean, as i understand it, it happens in many, many contacts. it hasn't happened in this particular context because how many former presidents that we had that paid off adult film stars and cover the hush money payments up using their own private business? not many, but that's just a factual distinction. the fact of the matter is, the statute is used all the time in this way in different situations.

>> let me take another bite at the apple. does any part of it concern you? i mean, bragg doesn't need to lay out what that step up charge is. the judge seems on board with that. but does any part of going from a misdemeanor to a felony concern you, legally speaking? >> not really. i think it's pretty clear that they were covering up a campaign finance violation at the minimum. to advance money for the purposes of running a political campaign. that's what this was about. there was no evidence that he had any other motive that you keep this stormy daniels a fair , or whatever you want to call it, the stormy daniels sex quiet before the trial. i think the evidence is overwhelming on that. to go back to the basic charge of whether he caused it, he did cause it. it was all run by him. he signed some of these checks.

i don't think there really is a weak spot in the government's case. and, you know, i do think it's possible that they could get a hung jury. i don't think you're going to get an acquittal, and a hung jury would just require one person to basically disregard the evidence and disbelieve michael cohen, i guess. the problem with that is that michael cullen was corroborated by the documents. essentially, his direct examination was walking through the documents and explaining the documents, putting them into context, and there's really no other alternative explanation for what those documents show. >> anna, to george's point about michael cullen, a lot of the prosecution's case would seem to rest on cohen's testimony, but there is a scaffolding that they built around him. i do wonder, if you talk about three points of, let's say, vulnerability in cohen's testimony, it would seem to be, one, the fact that we didn't know he had stolen money from the trump organization . two, there seems to be some discrepancy about the calls he imagined with trump were in

fact calls with trump. they were through his body man, keith schiller. and three, the sort of corroborating witness here is alan weisselberg, and we didn't hear from him. so we are reliant on cohen's testimony about his conversations with donald trump. you see those as the kind of points that the defense might best exploit and closing arguments? >> i certainly think that those are some of the points that they are going to try to exploit in the closing arguments in terms of michael cullen's credibility. i also would note that we pretty recurring theme of the defense trying to portray michael cullen as someone who has made a career off of talking about donald trump. portrayed him as someone who is kind of out for revenge, or has a vendetta against his former boss. going to those points, i still -- the ones that you just mentioned, alex, i still am not convinced that those will be entirely effective, although as you all have mentioned, it only

does take one juror. one reason being that, first, going to the questions around michael cohen stealing from the trump organization, he already admitted that on direct examination. it wasn't much of a gotcha moment, whenever it came to the cross-examination and when he actually fessed up to that. and then also, i will say that michael cullen, we have heard again and again throughout this trial, as the prosecution presented its case, michael cohen is someone who, you know, was maybe a little bit sleazy, with someone who people didn't like very much. and so i think the jurors came into his testimony kind of expecting to maybe not see michael cohen as the most credible witness, but their expectations were low, and the prosecution already has so much corroborating evidence with respect to the documents, phone calls, the other testimony of people like david pecker and hope hicks. and i think were going to see

in the prosecution's closing arguments when they are trying to, you know, bolster michael cohen's credibility, even though he is a key witness, is that he's going to be painting a meticulous timeline that really works through all of this corroborating evidence so that they can say and look, yes. you have michael cohen, we've heard from. he's a guy who's made mistakes, look to all of this other corroborating evidence when you are making your decision. >> i think the closing arguments, i hear what anna is saying there, it feels like they are going to kill him with details. just in excess of evidence, a real tick-tock of how this crime unfolded. >> i was thinking to myself, they have to be careful not to get too deeply into the weeds. what i mean by that is, the details that are necessary to establish this case are not necessarily so voluminous that you have to point on every single thing.

the key is, you want to tell a coherent story that has a believable theme, and that satisfies the elements of the crime that need to be proven. for me as a former prosecutor, one of the things that at some point, and lining up the elements i'm going to say, you hear from the judge and the judge will instruct you on the law, i want you to listen for the following things. and then i'm going to say, as you think about one, think about a. b, 2, and so on and so forth. you don't want to spend so much time on details that you confuse the jury. you want to do enough for you tell a story that is coherent and that aligns and reconciles with what you have to establish beyond a reasonable doubt. >> george, do you have an expectation of a story, if there is one, that the defense will tell? throughout this trial, it's been hard to understand if they are presenting a narrative at all. >> that is a problem, is that they don't have a narrative. that's going to be the most effective part of the prosecution's presentation at the end, is that they have a

narrative. they have a story. it coheres. all the documents confirm the story, and michael cohen's testimony fills in the gap. and even alan weisselberg is present. his testimony comes in the form of a handwritten document that, in no uncertain terms, was a fraud. you know, the problem with the defense that they've always had is that they do not have an alternative explanation for facts that are really fundamentally uncontested. yes, they can attack cohen's testimony. they can argue that maybe cohen misremembered one phone call, although the prosecution came back with evidence that, in fact, donald trump was standing right next to schiller when michael cohen called him on october 24th, 2016. and they don't have an alternative explanation for what alan weisselberg was writing on that sheet of paper. they have no alternative explanation, and all they could do is nitpick. frankly, that's what we saw in

there, and their cross examinations, which were completely meandering, and not very cohesive. and the reason why they weren't cohesive in that way and didn't tell a counter narrative is because there is none. >> important to remember, for everything the george said, the defense doesn't have to have a story if the people -- that's critical to understand and remember. >> don't go anywhere. we have a lot more to talk about coming up. democratic senators want to meet with chief justice john roberts to discuss the controversial flags flown by his colleague, samuel alito. at first, we have new reporting today that trump would like his friends in congress to pass a law to make all of his legal headaches disappear. were going to explain that coming up next. first treatment. immunotherapies work with your immune system to attack cancer. but opdivo plus yervoy is the first combination of 2 immunotherapies for adults

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this is the fifth week the president trump has been in court for the sham of a trial. they are doing this intentionally to keep him here and keep him off of the campaign trail. i think everybody in the country can see that for what it is. >> i was speaker of the house republican mike johnson speaking to reporters outside the manhattan criminal courthouse last week repeating donald trump's favorite lines. hush money trial is a sham and everyone knows it. reality suggests otherwise.

56% of americans believe trump is definitely or probably guilty of a crime in this case. what is true is the speaker's decision to appear outside the manhattan courtroom and attacked the judicial branch is emblematic of the complete capitulation of republican leadership to donald trump. as a washington post editorial board notes, in hindsight, stormy daniels was the beginning of mr. trump's unconditional hold on the republican base. the beginning of the end for what was left of the traditional gop. i'm back with jordan conway and anna bauer. thank you all for being here. george, i butchered the quote, but i do wonder what you think of it. in some ways, this represents both ends of the republican party, with access hollywood being the beginning, and the speaker of the house coming to the rescue of a potential felon outside a manhattan courtroom. >> they always managed to sink lower.

you have the speaker of the house, representative of the united states of america who is a conservative evangelical christian telling -- telling outright lies about a trial in defense of an adjudicated -- he knows lies in almost everything he does. and is -- no, this is in a sham trial. the evidence is there. the grand jury indicted him. what does he have to say about the evidence that involves -- not really in dispute, the person he is lying for, this conservative christian evangelical who paid off a star that he had sex with very briefly and then covered it up with a payoff. i mean, what is he saying is the lie there? he is lying. and he is lying in defense of a

pathological liar and criminal and, as i mentioned, and adjudicated rapist. you just can't sink any lower than that. i mean, the entire right has succumbed to this level of degeneracy and treats it as normal and just pretends it doesn't exist. it is absolutely appalling. >> it is not normal. i think it bears repeating. anna, your spent time in the courtroom. you been following this religiously almost. the effect that all of this is having on the jury, they are obviously not outside the courtroom, but there's been this parade of trump allies through the courtroom, and, you know, the trump of it all -- can you give us a sense of how the jury has been processing this, from what you been able to see inside the courtroom and the overflow room? >> well, look, i can't get inside the jurors minds, but i can tell you that sometimes whenever the parade of trump's

entourage comes in, it can be disruptive. there was a moment even at a sidebar that we learn from the transcript later on in which prosecutors asked justice merchan to ensure that perhaps people who are coming into the courtroom during trial proceedings could, you know, do so more quietly, because their security services were following them, all of that. is that element where it is a little bit distracting. i'm sure it is not lost on the jurors who are watching this political figures come into the courtroom every day, and what also is likely not lost on the jurors is that there are some notable absences from that courtroom, particularly melania trump, as well as trump's daughters. none of those people have been there while trump's sons have attended the trial on some days. this is a case in which the do phase is arguing that trump

cares about his family, and he cared about his reputation and his relationship with his wife. and they are arguing that through their cross examination and through their case to the jurors. and yet all the while, milani trump is not there. so it really is a striking absence, sitting there in the courtroom. i'm sure that is not lost on the jurors. >> the jurors have not been talking amongst themselves. is that right? we haven't seen any interaction there, which i would assume is making it even harder to find out what the dynamics are. >> that's right. and i will say there are a few jurors were noticed that maybe one or two will kinda smile at each other at certain moments, but especially during the trial proceedings, they are very engaged, they are paying attention, looking at, you know, just the witness and the prosecutor or the defense counsel doing the questioning. they are not talking amongst themselves, so we really don't

have much of an idea of what the dynamic there is. they are also not supposed to be beaking about the case to each other or other people. the judge, every day, when we leave, gives them instructions to that effect. so we don't have much insight into the dynamics. although we do know a few things. for example, there are two lawyers on this jury. you have to wonder exactly how that could affect the dynamic within the deliberation room when they eventually do get there. are these two leaders among the jury in terms of explaining this very complicated legal theory ? >> no matter what the outcome is, charles, it is very clear that donald trump doesn't want to have to go through this again. to some degree, i understand. but the remedies he is seeking are unprecedented, right? rolling stone is reporting that trump wants lawmakers to pass legislation to keep him out of

jail forever. one, asking them to pass along to shield former presidents from prosecution forever, and two, give the former presidency the chance to move state and local prosecutions into federal court. that something he tried to do in georgia. what is your reaction to that strategy? >> for as much as people say that donald trump did not understand government during his first term in office, it's very clear that since that time, he has learned how to use the legislature as a sword and shield, and he continues to do so going forward. we all know that part of the reason why donald trump is running for the white house as he wants to avoid landing in the big house. but at the end of the day, even if that is not something he has direct control over, what he knows he can do is apply pressure to not only the legislature, but also to the judiciary where he has a super majority on the supreme court that will do, hopefully, some of the things, if not all of the things that he wants them to do. in your lead in, you talked

about the fact that mar-a-lago, the federal case in florida, the documents, is the straightforward case that prosecutors have an any of the cases he is facing. simultaneously, if the case worries getting the most help from the bench in terms of eileen cannon, a judge was basically put that trial on hold. when i look at all of this, alex, what i see is someone who really understood dan's, i need to attack this problem on multiple fronts, leave no stone unturned, and create every opportunity for myself to stay out of court any further. >> is banking on the fact that he has a speaker of the house. and enough republicans standing on the courthouse steps that they had to push off a vote on a bill to hold merrick garland in contempt in washington, d.c. he has the support of the republican conference in the house. and is it so far-fetched to imagine that they would pass a law that, either way, a bill that has already been drafted -- to make sure he is immune to

prosecution forever? >> i think the house and probably pass it. the house is completely in the thrall of donald trump. and i think that will probably pass by one or two voigt votes, the margin they would have. but i don't think it will pass the senate. i don't think they'd have even all of the republicans editors to sign on to that bill. i think there are plenty of republicans editors who would find it repulsive. but i agree with charles. i mean, he will use -- this is all about trump. trump is running for president to stay out of the big house, as charles said. is going to use every lever of government or politics, of anything. the media. to stay out of jail. and then, if he manages to become president and stay out of jail, to wreak vengeance upon everyone who crossed him. and that's what donald trump is about, because donald trump is just about himself. he is a narcissistic sociopath.

he has no morals, no conscience, and no remorse. and he simply -- he's the only one in his own world, and he's the only one he cares about. and you know, the government be . soldiers that died for their country, their souls are losers. everyone else doesn't count in the mind of donald trump, and certainly, the law doesn't. >> here we are. george conway, charles coleman, and anna bauer. tank you for spending your friday memorial weekend eve with me and giving us the goods on what you think is going to happen. i really appreciate with your time. enjoy your weekends. still ahead this evening, we know that the number of abortions rose in the year 2023 despite the proliferation of state bands. tonight, louisiana has become the first state to figure out a brand-new way to stop people from accessing reproductive choice. that is coming up next.

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it has been less than a

month since a law went into effect in florida banning most abortions. already, we are seeing the ripple effects of that. the washington post reports on a new study today showing the wait times for abortions in nearby states across the east coast are up nearly 30% since that law went into effect. north carolina clinics appear to be suffering the most from the increased patient load. they risen in half the clinics in that state. it's not a surprise the neighboring states not as hostile to abortion are feeling the effects of florida's abortion ban, what is surprising is the effect on those states is perhaps not quite as severe as expected. according to abortion clinic staffers in florida, fewer women appear to be leaving the state for abortion care than was widely expect it, a finding largely attributed to the increasing availability of telemedicine and abortion pills. it's a good reminder that in a post-roe world, the landscape of abortion access has changed dramatically thanks to the abortion medications mifepristone, which are being sent through the mail to states that have banned abortion. but that has made medication abortion the next target for

the antiabortion movement with a case that could severely curtail nationwide access to mifepristone that is currently pending before the supreme court. just today, louisiana became the first state in the nation to criminalize not the use of abortion pills, but the possession of the medications without a prescription. that law was passed yesterday by the louisiana senate. and tonight, it was signed into law by the state's republican governor. once the law takes effect, people in louisiana can be thrown into prison for up to five years just for having abortion pills in their possession. joining me now is amanda. she nearly died in 2022 when she was denied a medically necessary abortion in the state of texas, which has banned nearly all abortions. she's now suing the state trying to challenge its bands. you so much for being here and

thank you as always for sharing your story. i do wonder what your reaction is to the news out of louisiana tonight, which is, republicans acting to take one of the last remaining tools out of the hands of women seeking to assert control over their own bodies. >> well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. it's a pleasure to be back. in regards to louisiana, first and foremost, my heart just shatters for all of the people in louisiana were now going to suffer under this new law. and frankly, it's terrifying. as you mentioned, very similar consideration is in front of the texas supreme court where i live, and it is just absolutely terrifying. i truly can't believe that we are living in this dystopian reality where we can be punished, we can be criminalized, we can be jailed for accessing basic healthcare. and make no mistake -- this is a direct result of donald trump and his overturning of roe v wade, which, by the way, he continues to brag about.

and if he is re-elected, we know that he will make this an issue across the country, and it is absolutely terrifying. >> you mention the word criminalization, which i think is so important in all of this. it's the idea of the punitive nature of all of this. women being criminalized for having abortion medication, which, you know, is entirely safe, has been approved by the fda. women criminalized from trying to cross the border and seek abortions and others dates. it's the notion that the law is cracking down on the people who seek to control their own bodies. as a woman who was in that situation, what it feels like to be told and to be positioned by the state as someone who is doing something criminally wrong. >> it is unbelievable. it is unthinkable that there are politicians like donald trump who are trying to criminalize us for making decisions for our own bodies. these are decisions that should be between a woman and her health care provider.

this is not something that politicians need to have their hands in. i don't think donald trump or his allies know better than my doctors. and so why do they think they have any business telling me how to make my own health care decisions? >> you know, it feels like -- the first round was abortion. then we are talking about ivf and embryos. we are not talking about abortion medication. contraception is on the table. i wonder if we could talk about your own personal struggle with ivf given to what happened to you and your body as a result of the texas law, and what you are doing to sort of manage the increasingly dim landscape for women seeking any kind of reproductive assistance. >> it's interesting for me, because on the one hand, i fall under the category of being unable to receive an abortion when i needed one. and, you know, republicans and donald trump are saying, that

is pro-life. on the other hand, not because of what i went through, because of the ban in texas that is a result of donald trump, i have to pursue ivf to try to build my family. and now republicans are trying to tell us if and when and how we can access ivf. to me, it feels very much about control, and again, i don't think politicians have any business having their hands in my family planning journey or telling me when or where or how i can build a family. and so it is really disheartening, but it is also motivating to fight back, because we can change this and we can fix this, as long as we make sure that donald trump is not re-elected. >> i know that you've spoken publicly about your decision to move your embryo. i don't want to put words in your mouth, but could you tell us a little bit about how you made family planning decisions? it truly feels like in this journey, you been treated like a criminal on the run. every time you see a path

towards having a family, it's like there is someone that comes around the corner with a new regulation. >> that's exactly right. you know, that's what i mean when i say this feels like it's about control. you are exactly right. my husband and i are very happy to have a number of embryos that we are hoping will one day become children, when the alabama supreme court ruling came out earlier this year, we were absolutely terrified. and so we instantly made the decision to move our embryos out of texas, as we know the political landscape in texas is very similar to alabama. and so we moved them that we felt they would be safer. but there is still a great deal of fear, because again, donald trump is re-elected, it won't matter what state our embryos are in, because they won't be safe anywhere. >> whether the comstock act or a national abortion ban, there are options that are very much on the table should he win the presidency again in 2024. thank you for being here.

they keep or telling us intimately about the struggles that you have been going through just as a woman trying to deal with her own body in the 21st century. i appreciate your time tonight. >> thank you, thanks for having me. >> coming up, will justice samuel alito ever be held accountable for his january 6th lawn ornaments? those two flags of the insurrection. two powerful democrats who oversee the supreme court trying to do something about it. we are going to tell you coming up next. up next. unintentional movements in his face, hands, and feet called tardive dyskinesia, or td. so his doctor prescribed austedo xr— a once-daily td treatment for adults. ♪as you go with austedo♪ austedo xr significantly reduced dan's td movements. some people saw a response as early as 2 weeks. with austedo xr, dan can stay on his mental health meds- (dan) cool hair! (vo) austedo xr can cause depression, suicidal thoughts,

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justice alito is not paying attention to his responsibility to the court and to the american people. he can't play fast and loose with these political singles without jeopardizing his own integrity. >> i think the question is, how many battle flags does a supreme court justice have to fly until the rest of the court takes it seriously? >> senator dick durban, of the senate judiciary committee, joining the group of democratic lawmakers expressing concern over flags flown over justice samuel alito's properties, flags carried by insurrectionist at the capital on january 6th. they called a meeting with justice john roberts as soon as possible to urge him to take steps to make sure that justice

alito recuses himself in cases regarding the 2020 election and january 6th. joining me now is leah lipman, one of the cohosts of the essential strict scrutiny podcast. thank you for joining me. i do wonder, the idea that samuel alito would recuse himself, what is your over/under on that? >> 0%. this is a man who has faced no accountability whatsoever for anything he has done. around this time last year, we were all talking about how it just came out that he had just taken some luxury alaskan fishing vacation with a republican mega donor, whose private jet he blew, and this mega donor had business before the court and justice alito never recused himself. he explained that by saying, otherwise, the private jet would have been unoccupied and if there was wind served at that luxury fishing vacation,

it certainly wasn't thousand dollar wine. this is someone who thinks they can basically do whatever they want while they are an accountable justice of the supreme court. flying a maga flag that aligns the justice with the january 6th insurrectionist's while sitting on cases that decide whether people will face criminal accountability and political accountability for their participation in january 6th is a slap in the face to the american public and the rule of law and he is only doing it because he thinks he can get away with it. >> yeah. i mean, and then the question is, chief justice roberts, what of you? i will read an excerpt from the great dahlia lichtman. "roberts, respectfully, has long ago made the decision that he is simply one coequal vote among nine. he either wants nor possesses the authority to rain in -- all

shrugs and i rose." first of all, i know well that role of a harassed mother at safeway with a tantrum having 5 year old, but i am not the chief justice of the supreme court, leah, and i wonder if your assessment of roberts' ability to do something here is as dim as dahlias. >> i think that the harassed mother of a 2-year-old who is throwing a temper tantrum at least gives the 2-year-old a time-out. the chief justice, by contrast, has decided to enable justice alito. at the same we could came out that justice alito has flown not one, but two pro insurrectionist flags, justice alito released an incredibly important voting rights voter discrimination case out of south carolina that the chief justice assigned to him. and in that opinion, justice alito wrote for all of his republican colleagues, including the chief justice, that republicans were entitled to draw districts to secure

themselves a partisan advantage, and gain political power for white republicans at the expense of black voters. that is the same message, the pro-insurrection message that justice alito was flying flags to display. and when it comes to the law, the chief justice is just unwilling, if not unable to do anything to rein him in. >> yeah, i marvel at the way in which this embrace of partisan politics, of insurrection, of antidemocratic norms, by one of the justices on the court is tacitly approved by the chief justice. and yet, on the flipside, i wonder what you think of the white house strategy here on all of this and the fact that president biden is not going to -- according to politico -- touch the alito controversy with a 10 foot pole. this is what they are putting on a report. he is warning that they are undermining democratic norms and threatening its institutions, but he is reluctant to extend that argument to the judicial

branch, aides say, fearing it could be cast as politically motivated and undermined his effort to portray himself as a champion for strengthening democratic institutions. is that the right posture, in your opinion? >> i think that position is becoming increasingly untenable. after they reported one flag on justice alito's house, senator durbin was not quick enough to condemn, it was only then when he joined the white house and said, no, this justice needs to recuse, it is a serious problem. i think as a -- defender of democratic institutions, president biden needs to do something about the supreme court because the supreme court, with the chief justice, justice alito, they are undermining democracy and democratic institutions left and right, whether it is insulating with participants on january 6th from any accountability, criminal or political, whatsoever, whether it is allowing republican politicians to gerrymander

legislatures to secure political advantage for white republicans at the expense of black voters -- the court is undermining democracy. the court is behaving like an antidemocratic institution, so as a defender of those institutions, the president needs to stand up for the integrity of the institutions and not allow the people on them to just destroy the basic principles of the rule of law. they are supposed to be guiding this country. >> america in reverse, in the name of tolerating ravens. it is nice to hear from you. thank you for your wise perspective this hour. i appreciate it. >> coming up, in the next doubleheader of the show -- trump hunts for votes in the bronx as president biden workshops his response to a verdict in trump's manhattan criminal trial. i will be sitting before a great political panel to break this all down. that is coming up, next. next. e to let in the lyte.” discover caplyta. unlike some medicines that only treat bipolar i, caplyta is proven to deliver significant symptom

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welcome back for the second hour of a supersize addition of "alex wagner tonight".

you didn't know you wanted it, but here we have it. yesterday, donald trump held a rally in one of the deepest blue areas of the country, the south bronx. depending on how you look at it, you might have walked away with several impressions. if you look at it like this, for instance, it looks like it is absolutely packed with trump supporters. but if you zoomed out a little bit, you can see that the crowd is actually not all that big. now, trump's campaign claims he drew a crowd of 25,000 people yesterday. the reported reality is more than 8000 to 10,000, which for most people would be a huge turnout, but for a presidential frontrunner in the highest population city in the country, it is pretty low. another way to look at this rally would to be to focus on the people in the crowd attracting the most attention, people like this man. >> we want trump! we want trump! we want trump! we want trump!

>> one conservative influencer posted a video of this guy rapping at trump's rally yesterday, champion in -- championing him as the new face of conservatism. saying, "this ain't your granddaddy's gop." but it turns out this guy isn't from the bracts at all. he is actually a rapper from florida. his whole shtick is following donald trump around the country and declaring how maga he is. his videos feature maga world celebrities like marjorie taylor green sitting right there on the car, and dance moves from people like michael flynn and roger stone. dance moves which i challenge you to unseat. mr. blow is about as far from being from the bronx as one can be. one of his albums is literally called "suburban legend," and features a cover showing his face, the state of florida, and an orange.

none of that is new york stuff. and among the crowd at trump's rally yesterday, there were plenty of folks like this, who traveled to get there and were more representative of trump's rabid fan base than they were of the bronx. this was not to say, though, that there weren't any actual residents of the bronx in attendance. as much as trump's crowds weren't as large as he wanted them to be, nor were the stars of the show necessarily born and bred in bronx, there were still plenty of real voters there who pose a very good question for joe biden, come november. msnbc news correspondence dosha burns was on the scene to talk to them. >> reporter: what brings you out? >> well, i came to support donald trump. i think he is the best leader we are going to have, and i am here to show my support. >> trump is the man that can save that country, period. >> have you voted for trump in past elections? >> no, i voted for biden, but i regret it. >> reporter: why?

>> too much crime, everything is going downhill. the economy is going bad, the food is expensive, affordable housing is to -- it is not for everybody, it is just for horrible. >> among the actual pro trump residence burns spoke to, the biggest issue that came up again and again is the economy, and there are a lot of anecdotes you can take from this economy to paint whatever narrative you wanted, but pro trump voters saying they want to vote for trump because of how they perceived the economy under biden is not just an anecdotal thing. it is a larger issue that biden is going to have to tackle in order to win the 2024 election. voters saying their top concern is the economy, that matches with what we have seen in poll after poll, the same polls that have for months shown trump a few points ahead of biden. now, for a long time, the concern about the economy and trump's lead in the polls has been a confusing pairing, because for most metrics, the economy is doing really well under president biden. so, why is he behind? well, today, the chief

political analyst at the new york times published a big analysis of the polls we have seen this election cycle, an analysis that might answer that question. here is a quote. "the polls have shown donald trump with an edge for eight straight months, but there is a sign his advantage might not quite be as stable as it looks. his lead is built on gains among voters who aren't paying close attention to politics, who don't follow traditional news, and who don't regularly vote." so, how does joe biden win over that group? how does joe biden sway over voters who aren't really following the news? nbc news got the scoop that the biden campaign plans to shift to a new, more aggressive strategy, once trump's new york hush money trial is complete. for the most part, biden has been steering clear of that trial so far, he doesn't want to play into trump's false premise that the trial is politically motivated and was somehow orchestrated by president biden. but, once the trial is over, the biden campaign plans to take the gloves off. "if trump is found guilty, the

biden campaign will consider whether to branded trump as a felon. if trump is acquitted or if there is a hung jury, biden intends to send the message that voters shouldn't wait for his other issues to be terminated either. they summed up their messaging this way. "donald trump's legal troubles are not going to keep them out of the white house. only one thing will do that, voting this november for joe biden." the question now is, will that message work? >> reporter: if he gets convicted, will that change your mind? >> no. i doubt it, because he's trying to help people and he's trying to make the economy better and i feel like that is what is most important. >> joining me now rc susan glasser, brandon buck, former secretary to john weiner, and julio castro, former secretary of housing and urban development.

secretary castro, let me start with you, in terms of how biden tackles this problem. the first step points at us, the shakiness of trump's lead, which would be good news to the biden campaign if you are looking at these numbers, but it is also hard. how do you reach voters who are largely disengaged from the political process and don't follow traditional news media? do you have an answer? >> to me, it means you have to pursue this kitchen sink outreach strategy. it can't just be traditional tv, tradition or air war, or direct mail. it has to be traditional gang on social media -- i mean, in so many ways, alex, this is deja vu all over again. the best thing joe biden had going for him in the 2020 general election was that he was going up against donald trump and people wanted an adult in the room, they were tired of the chaos, tired of the lies, tired of the failures in so many ways from trump

especially on covid, and they felt like joe biden would give a steady hand. everything that joe biden can do to reach those little propensity -- and right now, lower information voters, and get them amped up into the campaign -- is going to help him. it helps that they have the first debate relatively early on june 27th. it helps that you were going to go through the convention cycle in it, and it also helps that biden has a significant cash on hand advantage because that is going to help them better reach these voters. >> yeah, brandon, i want to read another excerpt from nate cohen's reporting, or analysis, about media analysis and consumption. while mr. biden holds most of his support from voters who consume traditional mainstream media, national tv networks, newspapers and the like, the disengaged are far likelier to report getting their news from social media. with these distinct views, it might not be so easy for mr. biden to win these voters back, even if the demographic traits

and voter allegiances is still suggest paths for the biden campaign to do so. it is wise -- mr. blow, the wrapper can pretend to be from the bronx and pretend to have some residence even though he is a florida guy out there stunting for donald trump. brandon, the question is, how do you reach them? can they be reached? there is the whole thing up, they don't know about biden, yet. you know, they are not understanding the dynamics of this campaign, yet. but, it is an open question of whether "yet" turns to anything other than "yet." >> i think that is exactly the point. the key point is they don't pay much attention to those voters because often times, those people don't vote. campaigners pay significantly more attention to people who you know show up election after election and you have voting records that show they do that. this is what i think makes this election difficult to pin down. we don't know who is going to be showing up this year and another point that nate cohen

makes in that article is that donald trump is doing far better with people who didn't vote in 2020, and if those people are people who don't typically show up, maybe that is not a big concern for joe biden, but we have a different electorate every four years, and the problem for the biden folks, is if the people who are traditionally your core voters are not showing up in large proportions, that is the problem. i don't think donald trump is going to get 20% of the black vote like he is getting in some polls, but even if that number for democrats is better, if a lot of black voters aren't showing up at all, that is a big problem. i think what they are going to need to do is focus on turnout for people who you can consistently expect to vote democrat in elections and not worry about these people who in the end may not vote at all. >> susan, you have written about just the degree to which trump has gotten a pass on so many things, right? biden is not getting credit for

the outstanding work he has done on the american economy and trump is getting a pass on literally every level. you excerpt it is comments outside of the courthouse -- which i think people might have -- these are the largely incoherent. this is trump talking about -- i am not sure what. it is him railing against the trial outside of the new york city courthouse, and here is what he said. this is why he said he did not testify. [ laughter ] i am doing my best donald trump. "yeah, because he -- the judge -- made rulings that made it very difficult to justify. anything i did, anything i did in the best -- they could bring it up then. you know what? i have had a great pass. but at anything, but the other reason, the main reason, i don't even mind -- i like talking about it, because we had rigged cases. new york is out of control and they can solve it with a good

appellate. what? susan, how? >> a good appellate, it just sort of rolls off the tongue there, doesn't it? you know, donald trump benefits actually from the expectation of his craziness. at this point, i think polster was quoted this week saying that the crazy is baked into the cake with donald trump, and one of the results, of course, is that eight years into this political phenomenon that is donald trump, he can say the most outrageous, over-the-top things, and people just shrug their shoulders. his supporters basically continue to support him. they are essentially almost immune to anything that trump could do or say. basically, look at the case of, of course, nikki haley this week. the very same week that his only major remaining figure in the republican party who had not kissed the ring -- as she, herself, put it a few months ago -- she called him in

february unhinged, out-of- control, diminished, said she wasn't going to "kiss the ring." two months later, nothing has changed, i don't think donald trump is more hinged now that he was two months ago, and yet, they are immune to anything that he says. just this week alone, alex -- it is friday night so you might not remember that last weekend, he was openly musing about saying a third term in office, despite the constitution's two term ban. there was that whole unified right social media post this week. you know, and i could go on, bragging about his close relationship with vladimir putin. in the same speech that nikki haley said she would vote for donald trump, she also was excoriating both trump and joe biden for, in her view, being "two weeks" on vladimir putin and not sufficiently support ukraine. well, donald trump doesn't even believe ukraine is a real country, so why are you voting

for him? >> yes, the baked in the cake piece of all of this is absolutely infuriating when you are somebody who cares about democracy, setting aside the political ambitions of joe biden. nonetheless, the biden campaign is not giving up on telling the story of donald trump's crazy over and over again. there is a new ad out, narrowed and aided by robert de niro, secretary castro, and i would like to show this ad to anyone who hasn't seen it. this is a means by which the biden campaign can refocus our attention on the things donald trump has done and said since he has been president. >> from midnight tweets to drinking bleach, to tear gassing citizens, and staging a photo op, we knew trump was out of control when he was president. then, he lost the 2020 election and snapped, desperately trying to hold onto power. now, he is running again, this time threatening to be a dictator, to terminate the constitution. >> if i don't get elected, it is going to be a bloodbath.

>> trump wants revenge, and he will stop at nothing to get it. >> i am joe biden and i approve this message. >> what you make of the ad, secretary castro? >> i think it is a good ad. look at the different elements of it. it reminds people why they rejected donald trump last time, from the bleach comment, to his failures in different ways on coded, and then of course january 6th, which turned off a lot of people even though his base seems to support it. but, i don't think that commands the majority of the american voters. it also reaches into popular culture with robert de niro. so, you have these different elements that are coming together, you see as part of the biden blueprint to drive down donald trump's numbers, and particularly, i think, not only to amp up the pace -- which in one part is the most important -- but also, to get to those lower propensity voters

as they start to tune in. you have got to use popular culture, you have got to use the broad strokes that kind of ad engages in. i bet you will see a lot more of that from now until election day. >> brendan, are the people that need to be moved going to be moved by that ad in your opinion? >> i have got to be honest, i am not sure what they are trying to do with that ad. we know everything they just showed. is there anybody in america that doesn't know donald trump says crazy things and was a crazy president? as we talked about already, issues are the economy and immigration. do they not have a message that they think could hurt him on the economy? people right now -- joe biden is at risk of losing the presidency to donald trump -- who did all of those things -- because people don't like the direction the country is heading and they want to change, and it is largely built around the economy. if they don't have a message for how donald trump is going to make the economy worse for you, that is not going to help anything. all those things we just heard, we already know. i know there are probably other ads but until they can figure

out another economic message, that is not very encouraging if you are a democrat. >> we are going to have a lot more on what joe biden is doing in and around his messaging on the economy. we have much more to discuss, including a new name that is popping up on donald trump's vice presidential short list. you will never guess but, oh, look, there is a picture of him. and later, the biden administration is antagonizing a big corporation that is accused of price gouging its consumers. stick around for that. for tha. planet with nuggets. because we need the planet. and we also need nuggets. impossible. we're solving the meat problem with more meat. if you spit blood when you brush, it could be the start of a domino effect. new parodontax active gum repair breath freshener. clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. a new toothpaste from parodontax, the gum experts.

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we have some breaking news this hour, special counsel jack smith has more violence in the mar-a-lago document case. he asks the special judge overseeing this case, eileen cannon, to bar former president trump from making statements that endanger law enforcement. this filing is in response to trump this week complaining that standard, boilerplate language contained in the fbi search warrant -- which was used to search mar-a-lago in the summer of 2022 -- trump was complaining it was actually a secret attempt by joe biden to use the fbi to kill donald trump. this is an excerpt from that filing tonight. "trump submits repeated mischaracterization of these facts in widely distributed messages as an attempt to kill his family, and secret service agents, has endangered law enforcement officers. trump's conditions of release should therefore be modified to prohibit similar communications going forward." back with me now are susan

glasser, brendan buck, and julian castro. this is a song we have heard before. trump saying wild, implausible, and dangerous things that then put people in harms way. however, the judge in this case thus far, eileen cannon, has been very sympathetic to donald trump and has not been in much of a position to rule in the favor of the special counsel. do you have thoughts on this? reaction to this? >> well, it is really notable that the special counsel has actually taken this to court. this was one of the wilder subplots of the week, donald trump embracing a new conspiracy theory first promoted by some of his far right allies like marjorie taylor greene, basically distorting this raid at mar-a- lago into some sort of effort into put him into the crosshairs of federal law enforcement guns. it even prompted a very unusual

statement from merrick garland himself, the attorney general, saying this wasn't true, donald trump nonetheless not only promoting it on his truth social media platform, but even raising money off of it. if you get those emails in your inbox, it says "joe biden tried to kill me," literally. and it is an example where donald trump is not used to having any accountability for the wild, false accusations that he is used to spreading. so, we will see. i think you rightly pointed out the judge here has been quite sympathetic to donald trump and has effectively, in her rulings, made it impossible for this case to go to court before the election. so, the american people won't have the benefit of knowing whether trump will be found guilty of a very serious set of charges that involve him illegally taking scores of very classified, top-secret documents from the white house with him, and misusing or --

certainly -- keeping that information unsafe in his bathroom, in his bedroom. it is really a remarkable case all the way around. but, i don't know if she will sanot. >> and as the hush money trial proves, just because trump doesn't believe it, doesn't mean others in the republican party will. so, this feels like that narrative to assassinate donald trump feels like one of those weeds left unattended in the garden spreads everywhere. you have steve bannon saying it, the far right maga caucus and republican carcass bending about it. i do wonder if -- not on this network, not in traditional mainstream media, not on earth, one -- but, in other parts of the internet and right wing echo chambers, whether this thing has legs. >> that was actually my first reaction. i don't know what the judge is going to do in the case, but it reminds me how scary politics can be right now. if you take it at face value what he is saying, he is taking in danger the lies of law enforcement. to me, that says there are a bunch of people in the fbi who probably were tracked down on

the internet and threatened by crazy people who are hearing crazy stuff on the internet and that is sort of the reality that we don't hear a lot about in politics today, but it affects elected officials, it elects all kinds of places. but, we saw it in georgia, the woman who was pestered based on what rudy giuliani said. you know, this is a scary place, and the way that information flows around can be really disturbing, and i imagine this is -- i expect this is probably something from a very practical or -- you know, something that actually took place that triggered it, and that is scary. >> secretary castro, it is also the way trump demands from all who serve them, right? it is similar to the 2020 big lie. once he has a theory in his mind, he is like a dog with a bone, he won't let go of it, he won't let anyone around him let go of it, which is why the

republican party is in the condition that it is, vis-@-vis election interference and the stolen 2020 election. i'm just wondering -- trump is talking about his running mate, the veepstakes has been some discussion this week, there is a new entrant to that race, tom cotton, the senator. and i just wonder, of the selection of people who have been names bandied about, whether it is doug burgum, whether it is tim scott, whether it is tom cotton, whether it is marco rubio, are those the kinds of people that are willing to later conscious of the door in a way that being donald trump's running mate would demand? >> good gosh, alex. you had a great lie last week with the competition, all the folks marching up to testify, to basically defend him in new york. but, yeah, i mean, it seems so, right? as shocking as that is, you take somebody like marco rubio

or a couple others that you mentioned -- right after january 6th, they went up there to the well of the senate chamber, the house chamber, in a press conference, and they condemned what had happened on january 6th. some of them even condemned or blamed donald trump for it, and here we are, getting ready for the 2024 election after they had put the blame on him, after they had written him off. and now, they are marching to his defense. they are all scurrying to try to figure out how they can get, number one, on his vp list. and politicians when they do this, they do that because they think there is a direct reward. for these guys, either the reward is they are going to become his vice presidential selection, and/or that they are going to get to keep their position because they are so scared of what would happen to them politically if they angered his base, that that would get a primary challenge and that primary challenge might be able to beat them, that they just think it is easier to give in and show that

publicly. they have to do it so publicly in order to make sure the base knows, no, no, no, i am with donald trump, no matter what happens to him. that is where we are at, this weird, twisted echo chamber, all of donald trump's creation, that has turned the republican party from a party that arguably -- under reagan, even though i didn't agree with the principles, stood for some principles -- and now, like many people pointed out, is more like a cult. >> can i ask you, we were talking about nikki haley earlier in the hour and i just wonder, what you think she is getting out of this, her endorsement of donald trump? she didn't say her supporters should and must follow him at the ballot box, but she said she was going to support trump because biden had been such a catastrophe. what does she actually get out of this? >> you know, nikki haley is one

of the serial flip-flop is on donald trump and the republican party. she is not the only one. remember, she was against him, that she was for him, that she was against him again, that she was against him too early so she was for him again, then she was against him, and she was even more against them, so now she is back to being for him. it is pretty exhausting. she is relying on a template that has become the standard template this year. if people like mitch mcconnell -- who literally have not spoken with donald trump after the 2020 election, who blamed donald trump for personally inviting the january 6th insurrection of the capital, and yet is willing to say that he is endorsing and voting for him -- the governor of new hampshire, again, a scathing critic. i know, for sure, that marco rubio and tom cotton are under no illusions about donald trump. it is not like he has converted them to the religion of donald trump. and so, it speaks much more to the incentive structure in the republican party today, per the secretary's observations, which i think are right on the mark. it is about ambition, it is about what the definition of what it means to be republican is. but for donald trump, we

haven't talked about that much. i would just throw out there in these veepstakes, that donald trump believes he was betrayed by mike pence on january 6th. to me, it seems to me the one thing he was really looking for in a vice president is the most servile person without principles, he will -- who will do whatever he says, and that, in fact, is the criteria here. i don't think donald trump is looking for very much political help from a vice presidential candidate. she believes it is all about him in the end, and i just think loyalty is the thing we should be looking at. >> right, he is not looking to carry arkansas, he's already got that one, he just needs the most spineless person among them. susan glasser, brendan buck, leon castro, i appreciate you spending your friday night with me. i really appreciate it. still ahead tonight, have you ever played monopoly? well, ticketmaster's parent company, live nation, seems to have taken that slogan seriously, and president biden's justice department announced plans to make them pay the price. that is next. next. ♪ ♪

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have you ever heard of swift-omics? i majored in them, no, i didn't. these are terms used to describe the economic boom, for the record-breaking tours last

year of taylor swift, and beyonce. the tours generated roughly $10 billion into the economy. fans who have the funds and were eager for a full on concert experience after suffering through a pandemic lockdown, they were willing to dole out a ton of cash on concert tickets, hotel rooms, plane tickets, restaurants, and bedazzled cowboy hats. but if you were among those who couldn't get your hands on a ticket, you are not alone. in the case of taylor swift eras tour, ticketmaster notoriously botched the presale. the website crashed and hundreds of thousands of tickets ended up on the resale market, sometimes selling for tens of thousands of dollars. and even if you managed to get tickets through ticketmaster, you probably would have paid exorbitant fees. for the taylor swift concert, those fees would have been upward of 28% of the tickets at face value. the real winner in all of this

was ticketmaster's parent company, live nation entertainment, which in the last year, earned record profits and a stronger control for the concert industry at large, control that did not go unnoticed. last year in a senate judiciary committee hearing, lawmakers grilled live nation's ceo, accusing the company of consolidating power and stifling competition, harming the consumer and acting as a monopoly. >> live nation doesn't just dominate the ticketing, it is about 70% of the big concert market. but, also, they own many of the major venues. this is all a definition of monopoly. >> a lot of people seem to think that somehow it is a solution, i think it is a nightmare dressed like a daydream. >> look in the mirror and say, "i'm the problem. it's me." >> quoting taylor swift lyrics there, there seem to be some bipartisan agreement on live nation's role as a bad actor, importantly, among the american people. a poll conducted last year shows that 75% of american adults support legislation

aimed at combating junk fees, including the fees live nation's ticketmaster charges you to attend the concert venues it owns. americans overwhelmingly want to stop paying more for live nation's economy and yesterday, president biden's department of justice along with 30 state and district attorneys general, announced they are suing live nation in hope that a court can break up the company under claims that it illegally maintained a monopoly in the entertainment industry. so, the biden administration is using its executive power to start another fight, the big corporation accused of exploiting american pocketbooks. meanwhile, this is how the other person running for president to spend his week. trump just made more promises to oil industry campaign donors. donald trump, who is already being investigated by the senate for engaging in possible

quid pro quo with big oil executives last month, is again promising more drilling and less regulation in exchange for high dollar campaign donations. we are going to have more on that political split screen, coming up next. ng up next.

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ed gutters.pto bismol. ♪ call leaffilter today. and never clean out clogged gutters again. leaffilter's technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good. guaranteed. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. if you wanted to attend donald trump's campaign fundraiser in houston this past wednesday, a ticket would have cost you a whopping $250,000. this was obviously not an event that was marketed toward working-class or ordinary americans, but specifically to oil tycoons.

at that very fundraiser, trump promised the big oil executives in the room more drilling and even fewer regulations. all they had to do, trump said, was to be generous, please. well, they complied. it trump's big oil fundraiser ranked in $25 million for his campaign in just one day. joining me now is the former campaign manager for bernie sanders' 2020 residential campaign and founder and executive director of more perfect union. thank you for joining me. what is this contrast in biden's war against junk fees and trump's appeal to the ultra- wealthy? >> that is not the only fundraiser. it has been a pattern with trump. he actually held a fundraiser at john paulson, who is a hedge fund billionaires house a few months ago and said, we will lower your taxes, just make sure you give money to us.

by the way, we are speaking on a day when today, he secured the endorsement of a guy named stephen schwartzman, one of new york's wealthiest people, one of the richest persons in the world who controls so much of the housing market. he says, i endorsed donald trump because his direction for the economy would be better. why do they love that? what is it that the billionaire class loves? >> what is it, what is it that they like so much about donald trump? >> right now, you have the chamber of commerce, you have major credit card companies, you have ticketmaster, big oil companies all fighting joe biden in court. they are fighting an agenda that is working on behalf of the people. the billionaire class is pretty upset. why would you dare challenge our business practices that give us so much wealth, when you go in and challenge ticketmaster's business monopoly, when you challenge this merger, when you challenge apples monopoly over the iphone market, why are you doing that? get out of our way. here is the biden administration fighting the people's fight saying, this is people versus the powerful. we are going to enact a government that is going to take the side of the working

class, and that story is what is going on. you see the billionaire class revolt against it, and i hope more people out there know that biden is taking on these courageous fights, on their behalf. >> let's talk about that for a minute, because it is clear that the biden administration is doing this because of a sort of ethical drive, right? this is a wrong think that is happening, the american worker is being screwed over, pardon my french, at the hand of big corporate profits. it is also very clearly a proxy war against inflation, is it not? i mean, the biden administration keeps getting hit on the economy for reasons that have a lot more to do than just the state economy, and they need to show they are concerned about inflation, that they care about how much money americans are having to shell out on a daily basis. is this the best way to do it? >> inflation in general, as we know, part of the major story

there is corporate america has too much ability over the control to jack up prices and they have taken advantage of that. one of the things we learned in the past few weeks was brought to us by the federal trade commission in which they said that there is collusion going on, in which domestic oil producers, mainly a guy named scott sheffield, who heads one of the most important oil industries here in america, was colluding with opec across the seas saying, let's keep prices high out of the pandemic. they come out of the pandemic and say, let's keep prices high. when oil is kept high, what happens to the rest of the economy? you have a trickle-down effect all over the place, where everybody else's cost of transportation just goes up. here, the ftc referred to this case to doj for criminal prosecution. here, you had the biden administration going after criminally illegal price fixing. will it solve the problem immediately? no. but there will be accountability over people who price gouged americans and that is as much as you can ask at this moment because the structural problem of corporate america having too much power to control your prices is not easy to fix but the un-rigging

of the american economy is what joe biden is after, he is doing a good job after that, and donald trump is promising a different course of action which is, what we side with big business. >> honestly, reread the economy. it is like on rigging versus rewriting. and also, biden is canceling a lot of student loan debt which is honestly something that doesn't get covered as much as it should, but i do wonder if you think these measures are we reaching the people they need to, right? concert fees, credit card fees, airline fees, that is reaching a certain subset of the american electorate. student loan debt is another. together, is holistically reaching the number of people, the kinds of people that are not already on the side of joe biden. >> not yet. but, five or six months to go here, and there is a zeitgeist out there of people in the working class coming out of the pandemic, feeling economically precarious. that doesn't mean that they are necessarily doing poorly economically, but feeling uncertain, unsure, on the kinds of ways of affecting behavior

and mood. you have to meet people where they are at. if they are feeling frustrated by an economy, you don't tell them everything is amazing. you level with them about the fact that there is a fight to be had here about who to trust in who to fix this economy on your behalf. who has the credibility to lower prescription drug prices, go after big oil companies when they collude, to go after major food producers, meat-packers when they are gouging prices on you, who is going to do that? i think that is the choice -- that is why these debates will be so important. clear back taking that i am on a certain track and i'm asking you for more time to work on this. that guy wants to lower taxes for billionaires and wants to give them the rule of the roost again. i think that choice this not ye been clarified partly because la they have not engaged each other on their respective plans and i hope that happens very

soon. >> june 27th, we are looking atl you. maybe once cats tickets go on sale, donald ngtrump will have opinion. his favorite musical. thanks for your time this friday night. and your general enthusiasm about what is possible. thank you, my friend. >> thank you alex. >> we'll be right back. lex. >> we'll be right back. smile! you found it. the feeling of finding psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu;

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♪♪ we're moving forward with indycar. because we're moving forward with everybody. ♪♪ shell. powering progress. breaking news this hour, jack smith is seeking a gag order in the mar-a-lago case. he made the request of the federal judge aileen cannon after donald trump falsely suggested that language in the search warrant of mar-a-lago in summer of 2022, that the language was actually a secret attempt by president biden to use the fbi to assassinate trump. this is from the motion this evening from special council's office. the law enforcement agents participating in this case conducted the search in an

appropriate and professional manner. trump's repeated mischaracterization of the facts and widely distributed messages as an attempt to kill him has endangered law enforcement officers involved in the investigation and prosecution of this case and threatened the integrity of these proceedings. a restriction prohibiting future statements does not restrict legitimate speech. his conditions of release should be modified to prohibit similar communications going forward. joining me now is lisa rubin. what is your reaction to this finalling by the special council's office? >> i'm surprised to see the feeling only because they have just been thwarted when they go on the offensive against former president trump. earlier this week.

judge can non-refundable cannon was very hash. at one point, he said to her, it is just not right. after she asked him to calm down. on the other hand, if there was ever a situation to justify a gag order, this week's comments about the fbi and the attachment to that search warrant definitely warrant it. that same fbi policy was attach today the search with respect to president biden's own delaware residence. this is not a situation where the former president was treated any differently than anyone else would be. >> and this week, we haven't actually had a chance to play at this hour, but merrick garland, the attorney general who is allergic to confrontation lest it be seen as political came outer and said publicly, you know, these kind of comments are dangerous

and they are unacceptable. that was a very unusual step for the attorney general to take in evidence of how seriously the department of justice is taking this rhetoric on trump's behalf and on behalf of the other trump allies. >> the attorney general has been very circumspect with respect to investigations. so, for him to come forward and say that, you're right. it is a deviation from how merrick garland has conducted himself. that said, you will remember in the wake of the initial mar-a- lago search, there were violent actions taken against at least one fbi office i can remember in the middle of the country. certainly there have been other actions taken against various actors who have played some part in the various legal dramas concerning and surrounding former president trump. that is everyone from the new

york attorney general letitia james. there have been multiple threats and escalating rhetoric against judge juan merchan. trump has been attacking him tonight on truth social. that includes alvin bragg as well. i imagine the special council's office is mindful of the way in which former president trump's rhetoric has endangered law enforcement officials all throughout the country. and culminating in this most recent attack on the fbi and president biden. >> yeah. you know i do wonder, though, lisa, where there was a gag order and one that was highly contested by president trump, whether we think gag orders work in the age of trump. where if he can't say it, he can get his minions to do it. steve bannon was parroting the notion that biden was out to assassinate trump. speaker johnson has no problem with impugning the entire

judiciary if it serves trump's issue. how effective could a gag order be? >> there is no question that the gag order as much as former prefer said it is unconstitutional. absolutely constraining his own talk about certain individuals. that said, when you have folks like senator tuberville admit they are taking actions to help former president trump, you're right. there is only so much a gag order can do. and even beyond that, want go to go. that is not anything that a gag order can necessarily control. >> yep. lisa rubin, thank you for springing into action. that's our show this evening. msnbc coverage continues right now. tonight on a special two- hour edition of