the key to unlock them. and be free of them. >> what is the lesson for women who feel trapped in a if you ignore the need to make a change until you are desperate, then you make the wrong kind of change. acknowledge you need to change something and then move forward and do it in a healthy way. if he had the-sight and strength to do that 15 years ago, i could have picked a much healthier way to change my life. >> that's all for this edition of dateline. i am craig melvin. thank you for watching. . >> good morning and welcome to the saturday edition of morning joe weekend. let's get to the conversations from the week that you might have missed. we will start with donald trump's criminal trial where testimony in the former president's hush money trial

has officially finished. the defense only called two witnesses. and yesterday, rested their case. former president trump did not testify in his own defense despite telling the press multiple times he wanted to. >> you testify in your trial. >> yeah, i would testify absolutely. it's a scam. it's a scam. >> are you going to testify? >> yes. >> will you testify? >> no he won't stop. >> he the gag is not to testify. >> do you plan to testify in court? >>i probably so. i would like to. i mean i think so. >> i mean, there's a story of his life, who shocked me can nobody's shocked. it is a guy who said of course i am going to testify, you knew he was not going to testify for a couple reasons. one, he is just a walking perjury machine. seriously? you got a new ice cream machine that you say makes ice cream. >> the mcreamy by ninja.

>> and creamy, yeah, well, he is a ninja perjury machine right? you stand in front of it for a couple seconds. >> i will never look at the creamy the same way. >> it creates instant perjury and so we all knew he it was lying. and he is a lie. he knew he was not going to testify. again, i wonder who is stupid enough to believe him? right. i wonder why his voter that keep going back to this guy -- because it's not just -- it's about everything. okay, you know what, i got to plan for abortion that everybody is going to love. and i am going to talk about it. and he comes back on states rights. and then he goes, i got a plan for a health care it's two weeks away. and, of course, those two weeks turn into two more weeks and he has no moplan for health care because he has no plan for anything positive for america and then yesterday, we will get to this in a second, what about contraceptions? oh i got a plan for that. and you are going to love it.

it's a smart plan. it's going to -- we are going g to take it back to the states. and then again, yeah, we take it back to the states which means clarence thomas was cl right, first coming for abortion, then they are going to be contraception and going to come for marriage equality and going on that's what he believes in his heart. and he gets back like for a guy that believe anything, that's one thing he believes. that states should be able to take away women's right to get contraceptives, have abortions or whatever. and he goes back to the campaign and goes that was w stupid, donald. you really dumb donald. you need to change your opinion donald. you -- you idiot that's what they are saying to him, and i am surprised they talk to him that way. but, they do, i guess. and so he changes his mind again. oh, waited, no, wait, no, those are democrats -- it's not democrats just like it was not democrats saying that he was going to testify when the whole

world knew he was lying about testifying because he would purger himself on the stand. and he was afraid of what he would have to admit about this encounter with a porn star at a payoff through michael cohen. >> okay. so, when asked -- thank you very much. >> good morning, joe. >> right now. >> hi, joe. >> he is awake. >> yes,. >> i was worried when i talked to him on the phone this morning that. >> he had his coffee. >> he was sleepy. >> he's had his ice cream. >> i have. yeah. >> okay. you done good. >> you know what it is mika, and i know it's funny i called elizabeth yesterday as well. and it ends up it's not just me. it's everybody in the times washington bureau when they are tired, they drink rudy's drip coffee. >> would you hedrink black. >> outhat's what's keeping us awake. >> has anybody tried it. >> rudy says it is really good. >> no, no one tried the coffee.

>> i am interested. >> no. >> sam. >> i am interested. >> it's the hair dye sweat mixed in that gives it a special flavor. >> you got to gipour it out. >> and you put it in the ninja and it's fluffy. okay, so when asked why -- i am sticking to -- >> yummy. what do you any is in the mug? >> okay, my gosh. this is not real. is it? it is. that's the problem. >> this is our world, 2024. >> can you sell. >> center. so when asked why he didn't take the stand, because the defense has rested and donald trump's criminal hush money trial, the former president refused to answer. >> why did you decide against testifying in your case? did you want to take the stand? >> so. >> well. >> the trial is now on break for the memorial day holiday.

and will resume next tuesday. may 28th, for closing arguments. the judge has confirmed there will be court next wednesday, making that the first possible day for jury deliberations. let's bring in former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor chuck rosenberg. chuck, just your thoughts on donald trump's inability or refusal to mpparticipate in thi probably his team got him to not testify because i don't think they would have liked that. and just what about this big gap now and then what happens scheduling wise for this trial where we might be waiting for a verdict? what's the timeline. >> yeah, let me start with the first thing first if i may. good morning. >> good morning. >> it's actually a smart decision by mr. trump. so don't often use smart decision and mr. trump in the same sentence. but it would be rare for a

defendant in a criminal case to testify of the 50 or so criminal cases i prosecuted, i probably saw that happen two or three times. and it never, never went well for the defendant when he or she took the stand. and so, putting mr. trump's noise aside, putting the brag doseo aside, it was a smart strategic decision for him not to testify. prosecutors were ready. i think he would have been shredded, and so, i think resting without calling mr. trump was a good legal decision. what happens now? well, right now, both sides are working with the judge to fashion jury instructions that will be the judge's legal road map for the jury when they ju begin their deliberations. the jurors are the judges of the fact but the judge supplies the law to the jury to help guide their deliberations. and then next hweek, both side

will have the opportunity to argue to close to sum up the trial. and after that, mika, the case goes to the iajury and we await the verdict. >> why do the jury instructions matter so much to both sides. >> yeah, you know, it's a great question, and there's not an obvious answer unless you are a lawyer and sat through this thing. by the way, sitting through this thing can be painful. i hated this part of trial. once the defense rested, i felt like i was done, but i wasn't. so, here's an example. and just an example. but imagine the government wants to prove that mr. trump caused the entry of false records. they want to prove that the ledgers and documents were false, and that mr. trump caused them to be false. so, a discussion perhaps only a lawyer could love, what does it mean to cause something? so, you know, i am holding a mug of water in front of me right now. if you wanted me to cause me to drop this you could knock it

out of my hand. be directly causing me to drop this. you can get joe to knock it out of my hand and you would proxy to get me to drop it on scare me so you weren't directly causing me but indirectly causing me to drop it. and so, the government wants a broad definition of cause. not just that he made those entries directly on himself, but he caused someone else to do it. on the onother hand, the defens would want a narrow definition of cause. because liability for the defense from their perspective ought to be narrow and liability from the prosecution's perspective awed to be broader. so ctgiving the judge to get th right definition of cause. you knock it out of your hand and got someone else to knock eat out of my hand helps the prosecution narrow definition of causality could help the defense. >> and chuck, i want to ask. >> please, please, i want to

remind everybody, please, ve nobody knock that out of chuck's hand. >> no. >> they are actually is rudy coffee inside of it. and it burns through table tops, and your lower intestines like sulfuric acid. so let's keep that right there. and there it is. made with some special ingredients that, well, let's just say banned in 47 states. chuck, i want to talk about this time that you said you ou hated. as an attorney, you are sitting and waiting. and i would watch older lawyers. i d was not my specialty going the courtroom. might have narrowly defined specialty from where i worked, and that was windows. they thought i cleaned windows very well and that's what i did most of the day. i would watch the seasoned attorneys and they would sit and wait for the jury and they hated it. and they hated it because you never knew what was going to

happen. right? >> that's right. >> they would say 90% of the time it's right. but you know what, you lose some, you should never win and win some you should never lose. but that's when i hear people on tv trying to predict how a jury is going to come back. despite what you know, where they are whether they are new york or northwest florida. nobody knows. because they really do. they take the job seriously. and that once they get behind the doors, it just takes on its own life, doesn't it? >> absolutely. i mean i could say with confidence that i felt my case went in well. i introduced the evidence i wanted to introduce. i obtain the answers from our witnesses that i wanted to obtain. but it would be crazy, foolish, for me to tell you i knew what a jury was going to do. and he think the reason i hateed that part so much is maybe as prosecutors were a bit

of control freaks. and this is the thing we absolutely cannot control. once the case is submitted to the jury, it's theirs and theirs alone. and all you can do is sit and wait. i will never tell you i know what a jury is going to do. i will tell you i think the government's case went in well, well enough to sustain a conviction. whether or not that happens, i have absolutely no idea. >> can i ask a question. >> okay. go for it. >> so, what is the -- i've heard repeatedly how good the government's case is. what would you guess would be the -- if trump is acquitted, why would the jury do that? what evidence would they hang that acquittal on? >> yeah, and elizabeth, remember, in order to acquit, they also have to be unanimous. an acquittal or a conviction requires a 12-0 verdict. and anything in between would be a mistrial hung jury. but to answer your question, in my experience when a jury

aquits, right, and so that's a unanimous verdict, it's typically, not always, but typically because they have some question about whether the government met its burden of proof. and that's significant burden. it's proof beyond a reasonable doubt. i will add this, think it's really important can this jury acquit? absolutely. will this jury acquit? i llhave no idea. but, an acquittal is never a vote by a jury that someone is innocent. they are not asked that question. it is guilty or not guilty. and so often when there's an acquittal, the press modely touts it as a finding of innocence. that's not the finding. but it typically, elizabeth, be predicated op a belief by unanimous jury that the government failed to meet its burden of proof. >> and we will continue this conversation after a quick break. don't go anywhere. sation afterk break. don't go anywhere.

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though is not testifying donald trump is talking a lot. yesterday, he unleashed a new line of attack of judge merchan. he accused the judge of hating him and having bias against him. because of where the judge comes from. >> the judge hates donald trump. just take a look. take a look at him. take a look at where he comes from. he can't stand donald trump. he's doing everything in his power. >> sam, what is he talking about? >> i mean, it's typical trump. this is the same exversion of the line he did back in the 2016 campaigner with said the judge against him in the trump university case was biased because he was from mexico. he was not as explicit. >> that was pretty clear. >> where he comes from could be and deliberately could be phrased how the viewer wants but we know what the

implication was. and you know, all of this is sort of surreal. that statement in its own right would have been a shock to the system six, seven years ago. and it was. i remember how we felt when it first happened. >> yeah. >> but it's become sort of normalized because we have been so inundated with trump. and i think on the macro scale, we are had a 15-minute conversation about a potential -- the presumptive gop nominee may have a guilty verdict in hush money payment for a porn star. and i think sometimes we don't really step back and say to ourselves that what we are living through is a very tense tumultuous and frankly a surreal life. and i think the thing that's almost more interesting than all of that is the degree to which, if you talk to democrats they will admit this. the degree to which it is not breaking through. >> right. >> the polls don't move.

trump's base doesn't move. we have lawmakers who are willingly going to the court. >> there's an acceptance happening. >> exactly. there's an acceptance to it and it is become baked into our political psyche at this point. >> joe. >> well, i mean, elizabeth, it says-- it is far more than just concerning nerve-racking. this is open blatant racism that has been sort of main streamed into american political life. this did shock people in 2016. when he was talking about the judge from mexico. but here's a guy now that says take a look at him. look at him. see where he's from. and i it will you this is what separates donald trump for say i will speak for myself from me or from most americans. i look at him and go, madison avenue? upper east side. that's what i see when i see him. and i am dead serious. donald trump speaks in code because he wants people to see

the judge as another. everybody is another unless their immigrant parents were from scotland and germany. and so, you have people, and i will go back to it what did don meachum call it clubhouse set that's totally fine with. >> the grill. >> the grill the -- yeah the man's club grill at country clubs are perfectly fine voting for a guy who talks about vermin a nazi term, who also uses sort of the fascist slogan of go back to where you came from for sitting members of congress that don't happen to be white. and then yesterday, just take a look at him. just seriously? like what is this 1933? i -- it is it still needs to be shocking to us today.

>> but, you know, and here's the -- trump said we need more people coming from norway and the scandinavian companies that's out there as well. it has been going on since 2015 and 2016 and population has become just used to it. it is -- can you manage if another politician had said something like this. we would be talking about it for days, but trump is we are used to it,. >> and he is bringing up a whole new set of generation trying to think of the right word category of politicians who speak this way and you see them in congress, and, again, the reaction there's so much of it, joe, that it's hard to keep track and again without going into the origins of fascism and cults, that's exactly how it starts when there's chaos, there's a fire hose of this type of information, and it is too much to keep up with.

and overall, communities and different whether it's the media or voters or political organizations become desensitized. >> yeah, you know, and the voters i won't say they become desensitized because that's giving them far too much leniency. the fact is. >> what's the word? >> well, i mean, they are voting for a racist. they are -- it is an active choice to vote for someone who said in december of and i know this because i was a lifelong republican who on this show early december of 2015 when he was talking about muslim registry saying i would never vote for a manlike that in my life. regardless of if it were my father or a woman or if it was my mom, i would never, right. that's an active choice. i am going to vote for him even though he supports muslim recommendation stris.

i am going to vote for him even though he is -- using the old fascist line go back to where you came from. i am going to vote for him the men grill enablers are saying when he says just take a look at him. look at where he is from. this is not a passive choice. this is not an oh i am so numb they can't even hear what he is saying. no, this is him hearing he is a racist, hearing that he -- a racist, he is a racist terms and they would have been used by everybody in both parties. i keep going back to the iowa congressman who got kicked out of the caucus for saying far less in 2015. >> by other republicans. >> by the republicans. this is no trump derangement syndrome. because republicans and democrats predonald trump in 2016 would have considered any of these statements

disqualifying. now it is an active, active decision by members of the republican party, by members of the united states senate, by members of the united states house by republicans men grill enabler republicans by anybody that's voting for him to vote for someone who is for muslim registry and vote to someone who talks about vermin and vote for people who say go back to where you came from for members of congress who aren't white. and now looking at judges, who, again, i am sorry, very american to me, and i just would never think where did he come from. but for donald trump, it is all us versus the others. saying about this judge, oh, you know, he's not going to be fair to me, look at him. look at where he comes from. look at him. i am sorry, he looks like an american to me. i mean, i am sorry. look at that. that guy looks like one of my law professors.

looks like an attorney. >> a teacher. >> sat across a table with. looks like a -- you know, a businessman that i may have dealt with. but for trump, for trump, he hears the name and goes, look at him. look at where he came from. and people are actively, actively choosing when they go in to vote for this guy, to vote for a bigot, a fascist and a man who says he wants to be an authoritarian and dictator on day one. coming up, former director of the fbi james comey is here with a warning about what a second donald trump many term would look like. p many term would look like. i'm a bird stuck in larry bird's attic. and i'm goin' cuckoo. hmm. you may be a legend on the court but you're an amateur up here.

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to appear is former trump lawyerp rudy giuliani. the former new york city mayor taunted arizona authorities on social media on friday night bragging that he had not been served with papers while posting a picture of his birthday party in florida. that post helped arizona attorney general chris mays figure out his location and had him served. not smart. joining us now former fbi director james comey. he is the author of the new book entitled westport, a crime novel. and welcome back to the show. we will get to your novel in a moment. it's good to have you on. i would love to can you this question, given everything that this country has been through since the run up to the 2016 election, which i know you've been asked repeatedly about your choices and actions before the 2016 election, and you've answered you did what you thought you had to do. but given the magnitude of all

the counts against donald trump, 87 plus the civil lawsuits and liabilities that have been put on him, doy think there are any areas where if so, is the law falling short in the prosecution of donald trump. >> well, think first thank you for having me on. i think the law could move more quickly, especially in the classified documents case in florida. case could move more quickly in the appeals process in the january 6th federal case. but i think overall, the law passed its stress test over the last year. manhattan case is showing the american people this is how it works. this is what the rule of law looks like. >> so let's get your evaluation of what you heard at the trial so far. do you -- it's closing hours. the defense rested today and next week closing arguments and then to the jury. so, verdict could come with ten days time hard to say. as you have been watching it, what's your assessment how the prosecution has done. >> much better than i expected

just having read the indictment. and, of course, i tried a lot of cases so it's dangerous to talk about them when you have not been in the courtroom for every moment but it seems to have gone in very well. built brick by brick in way not cross examinable with documents and texts and defendant's own voice better than i expected. so i told my family, from the outside, i would think there's a very high likelihood of conviction. small are likelihood of a hung jury little likely approaching acquittal. >> you know, mr. director there's a tern possibility that president trump may be reelected president this fall given your vast experience and justis department and head of the fbi, what are the principle points of danger within the justice department if there's another trump presidency given his nature, given what you know about him? >> he is a threat to the rule of law in america. that's to me that's what this

election is about. not about policy differences, it's about what kind of country will we be if he has the ability smarter than he was last time to use the power of the department of justice and the fbi to target his enemies, especially, and the rule of law in america will change in way we haven't seen in our lifetime. >> when you say target his-mis. how would he do that? >> the first thing sea would express it in the first term as aer with i want people to go after so and so. i want people to go after andrew mccabe the former deputy director in the fbi. second term he would go a step further and say i want him criminally investigated, and he would have -- he was close to the bottom of the barrel in the ate pointees and he will be at the bottom and those are the people who carry out that order. >> and they are there to protect him not the constitution or rule of law is the first test are you loyal to me and everything flows from there. there's an assumption mr. director, if he is reelected he could mace the cases go away the federal cases. around january 6th, election

interference, around the classified documents as well. is that your read of it when he is sworn in if he is next january let's say, for another term, that it all goes away? >> yes. the person who would insight a mob to sack the capital will dismiss the cases pending against him. >> who is that? he puts somebody in place who makes it go away. >> he puts an attorney general or mosh more likely acting in who dismisses jack smith and they drop the indictments. simple as that. >> mr. director, you have spoken about the judiciary. we know that donald trump when he comes back has plans to he moves a load of civil servants to at-will position and politicizes him. do you think that could change the nature of america's civil service large and not just for the trump presidency potentially if he could do that, why wouldn't a future president do that too? >> so yes, i do think that's where will he go because what he missed last time is the strength of america is government is in the middle

layer. >> we are not talking about attorney general but going through. >> there's a middle layer that is an a political professional codry of people. and if you alter institutions, you have to get rid of that middle layer of stability, and that's where he will go. and it will have profound consequences just not for the next four years, but for many years after that. >> so mr. director you found this new chapter in your career as a novelist brighting books very successful first, central park west. the latest up 95 or the merit i guess however you like to get up there into connecticut. book titled westport. tell us about the story? >> it's a murder who dunn it that is situated in an enortherlyous financial manager hedge fund in new york suburbs westport connect kit and it's norah carlton is accused of murder. it's i think for people very fun read. height will take them inside a world that is fick shoalalized

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>> the our political system is not built to deal with an asymmetrical player like trump. >> we are talking about him and not only judges but family members. >> it's margins that matter because this is going to be a close election. >> immigration is not the only issue that is front and center during this election. abortions of course very sailient in it does feel like it is a war on women and it's an attack on our bodies. >> don't miss the weekend. >> saturday and sunday morning at 8:00. >> on msnbc. ay morning at 8:00. >> on msnbc. welcome back donald trump says he will rollback national gun laws passed by the biden administration if he retake the white house in january. speaking at the national rifle association's annual convention, in dallas on

saturday, trump vowed to kill the dreams of "radical gun grabers. take a look. >> we will rollback every biden attack on the second amendment, the attacks are fast and furious starting the minute that crooked joe shuffles his way out of the white house. gun grabers will run straight into a very, very powerful brick wall. their dreams of taking away your god given rights will die when the polls close on november 5th, 2024. those dreams that they have will be dead. they will be dead dreams. >> gun safety is far from the only biden policy that trump is vowing to undo if reelected. among the many he has promised measures against federal funding for issues pertaining to lgbtq plus rights. to that end, the human rights campaign today is announcing a $15 million investment to

mobilize voters in six key swing states. joining us now the president of the human rights campaign and the human rights campaign foundation, kelly robinson. she was recently named one of time 100 most influence people of 2024. congratulations on that. >> thank you. >> so, who and where are the voters you are hoping to rally to show up for equality? >> look, this is a big deal. there's a lot of fear and a lot happening in the world, but this is something that people can be excited about. we identified 75 equality voters's cross the country prioritizing lgbt plus issues when deciding who to vote for. 75 million. that's equivalent to the number of total voters in swing states combined. so our job and what we are seeking to do through the we show up campaign is turn them out to the polls and make it clear what's at stake and how scary and devastating a second trump would be and make sure they have the information tools they need to get out the vote. >> so, what is at stake? how scary is a concept of a

second trump administration for these communities especially? >> look, every time he opens his mouth it's new nightmare that comes out. we are talking about a person trying to make his way from the courthouse back into the white house yet again. to torment our lives communities and families. if i look at short-term with hit putting in three supreme court justice overturned roe v. wade but said out loud next they would come for windsor and next for lawrence. supreme court cases that fundamentally establish rights for my community in the country. this is something that we can't take lightly. so when i think about this year, the contrasts and cows choice is clear. it's not just about two candidates it's about two fundamentally two different veerings of our country we could look at after november. >> is part of the campaign almost hearing what your describing here, almost a to show what he's done what is already literally happened not, you know, figuratively. this is -- he's done damage to women's rights, women, young

women do not have the rights i grew up with. >> yeah. >> because of donald trump. how will you articulate that when you go after the voters for equality. equality voters as you call them? >> it's exactly what you said. we don't have to wonder about what a second presidential term for donald trump would look like because he has shown us. and he continues to tell us. your last clip showed that. clearly, not only that, project 2025 says out loud they are coming after marriage equality. i mean he is seeking to rollback the rights that we have gained the last 20 or 40 years but over the last 100. so this campaign is about reminding voters about that reality. and the beautiful thing about equality voters is that they represent so many parts of our community. they are overwhelmingly people of color and women allies and lgbtq community and younger. and especially that young generation we have to remember that in 2020 they were just coming of age politically. so we have to remind them of what that chaos was and the power to change the future. >> you are looking at swing states, pennsylvania, air zone,

a michigan, wisconsin georgia and nevada. the $15 million campaign how will you implement it ads or field operations. >> all of it. we will knock on doors and making phone calls. we are going to be recruiting volunteers. we are going to be putting out paid ads so people understand the realities of what he at stake and turning the folks out. at the end of the day, election the presidency will come down to tens of thousands of voters and a handful of states. so when i look at equality voters we have gone 1.4 million identified in the state of arizona alone. and that race was determined by 20,000 voters -- 20,000 voters in 2020. same thing if you look at wisconsin. we have a million equality voters there. and it was a difference of 20,000 voters that made the difference in 2020 to get president biden into office. so this matters. >> yeah, keep us posted. president human rights campaign kelley robinson thanks for coming on this morning. we appreciate it. up next, actor charisma loany is here to explain why he

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advocates led by the law and order svu star went to capitol hill to seek increased federal funding to study the conditions of those suffering with the long term effects of lyme disease. they had meetings with lawmakers from both parties, hoping to bring bipartisan support to what the advocates say is a long overlooked issue. i would agree. and the emmy nominated actor johns us and served as an ambassador for the global lyme alliance also with us filmmaker lindsey keys who directed the documentary entitled the quiet epidemic. focusing on the hardships of living with lyme disease. thank you both so much for coming on this morning. chris, that was a great psa. you nailed it. how did you get involved with this? >> yeah, as a matter of fact, i am kind of reliving that. it's very painful to watch because i've -- i've been through everything that was -- that was written on there.

well, that's how -- that's why i am here. >> i see. okay. >> my family has been severely affected by lyme disease. and i needed a place to find support, to find an answer. and so that led me to global lyme alliance and the midst of that, one afternoon, my wife and i went to see the the quiet epidemic, lindsey's movie, and that left me paralyzed with. >> wow. >> with pain and reliving everything that was in the film. and so, we got connected and got together. >> so lindsey we have seen long covid and now long lyme disease. my concern as grand parent and grandparents of little kids,

summertime out running, lawn, grass, what are the symptoms of a little kid's lyme disease. how would a parent or grand parent know enough to say hey, come here let me check you out here. >> so, we have long heard of the bull's eye rash as the classic sign of lyme disease. but that only occurs in about 25% of cases. so that's important to note that you can look for rashes, but they are not always going to be there. so, flu like symptoms in the summer known as the summer flu. joint pain, that migrates throughout the body, headaches, sudden changes in mood and disposition, personality changes. what's hard is that lyme disease can manifest in so many ways it's hard to know. but if you suddenly notice that your child or your grandchild is not well, and all of the laboratory tests are coming back saying there's nothing wrong with this child, it's important to know that the laboratory tests are inaccurate and you want to find a doctor to make a clinical dies --

diagnosis and treat as quick as possible. >> you are not a doctor or politician. you are a celebrity and we have seen the power of celebrities to focus attention on diseases or other issues facing the nation. what is it that you hope, you yourself, can do in this cause? and have you been surprised by the power of your voice in talking about this? >> pleasantly surprised, and thank god for that. i was more stunned and shocked by falling into this world of lyme disease and understanding the facts and figures. you know, it's been around since 1975. there is nearly no money being thrown towards research. what the medical professionals understand it to be, they don't know, and they are slowly now admitting to that. they did no one is admitting to chronic lyme when there are

millions of cases out there. it's -- you know, a disease that needs attention. that's what we are hoping for. it needs congress to pay attention and get some funding to research, so we can get an answer. this is one of the fastest growing epidemics that's coming our way. in 1980s, there were 1500 cases, and now each year there's nearly half a million of that half a million, at least 10% will turn into chronic lyme. where there's as of now, no cure. so just that's over years. >> amazing. i spent most of my weekends on a farm and everybody everyone i know including members of my familiar has had lyme disease and it's debilitating. what's your aim for the film in terms of looking at new treatments, bringing new treatments to the floor and exploring alternative treatments. are there things we are not

trying that we could be trying? >> there are so many therapies out there that we could be trying. the issue is as chris said, there's a serious lack of funding. we also lack clinical trials. it's been 18 years since the nih funded a clinical treatment trial for lyme disease. and there's never been a clinical treatment trial for overlap tick born infects. ticks are exploding across the country. they carry far more than lyme disease. nearly 20 path generals identified in ticks at this point. and doctors do not have the tools backed by science to figure this out. so we have to change that. >> all right. for more information you can visit global lime alliance.org. actor chris meloni and fill being maker lindsay keys thanks so much for bringing light to this. it sounds really dire. i am texting everyone about the cats. and chris, i hope you are feeling better. thanks for coming on. >> thank you. >> all right. >> thanks for having me. >> take care.

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welcome back to a second hour of morning joe: weekend this saturday . here are more of the big stories we talked about this week. >> if he decides he's going to run, with that preclude any run that you would possibly make yourself? >> i would not run the

president trump ran. >> i don't put up with bullies and when you kick back, it hurts them more if you're wearing heels. i'm nikki haley and i'm running for president. >> times change and so has trump . he's gotten more unstable and unhinged. >> biden has been a catastrophe. so i will be voting for trump. >> first she would not run against him. then she did. three months ago -- >> called on. i'm shocked. i'm so shocked. >> it's a list and i'm checking it all. she would not run against him. then she did three months ago he was to unhinged to get a drivers license. and now nikki haley will vote for donald trump for president of the united states. >> i mean, this is one of those -- i'm shocked. shocked. she's done this over and over

again, right? and i will say, let's just say off the top this happens in politics. you know, people say nasty things about other people they are running against for president and then they come together. i do think though, everybody has to make a choice. and in 2024, nikki haley could've made the choice that a lot of conservative republicans have made -- will be talking to charlie sykes about that in a little bit -- that is, you know what? stay conservative and don't go along with the authoritarian. don't go along with the guy that wants to amass more power in the white house and more power in washington, d.c. than any president in american history. so, her choice is support an authoritarian -- and a guy who has promised he's going to be an authoritarian and i can go down the list. but he is promising it every day. vote for me, donald trump says,

and i will be a menace to american democracy. and of course nikki haley basically hinted at that and also called him a bully. said he was unstable and unhinged. to unhinged to get a drivers license. and now, biden, he is a disaster. i love how they say biden is a disaster and they can't really name anything but big o, student loans. so horrible and they compare student loans with people trying to overthrow american democracy. not understanding just how out of it and stupid they are. they called joe biden a socialist or marxist or communist with the dow over 40,000 and the economy stronger than it's ever been. and again them not realizing just how stupid they sound. you know, everybody, everybody's got to choose and she has chosen and unlike a lot of good conservatives, she has

chosen the authoritarian leader. so, let her go with that. and it's on her, not us. >> yeah. and by the way she could make the choice that so many of her own supporters have been making in these primaries by not voting for donald trump. not saying that i love joe biden but saying i'm not willing to take the country down the road of donald trump again, which we are seeing and primary after primary pick she's getting 15%, 20% on a campaign she shut down a couple months ago. a campaign that she ended by quoting margaret thatcher and saying never just follow the crowd suggesting i'm not just going to fall in line with donald trump i'm never going to fall in line with donald trump. now she has in a move that, as you say joe, seemed inevitable to most people. remember she called him unhinged several times. he used a birther attack on her. he went after her husband, who is deployed in the united states military overseas asking, where's the husband? well, he was defending the

country around the world none of that seems to matter. go back to ted cruz and marco rubio pick we've had this conversation 1000 times it just doesn't matter but take out the personal stop and as you guys point out, were not talking about is a joe biden or john mccain? is it joe biden or mitt romney? is a joe biden or george bush? we are talking about a guy who has promised to undermine the foundations of this country and has already attempted to do so in her last election. >> i mean, she could've waited, perhaps, for a moment to come her way with all the different dynamics in this election, you never know him up but she has chosen to go with trump, along with joe, willie and meet we have the host a way to early, jonathan lemear and the president of the national action network and host of msnbc's politics nation, reverend al sharpton. nbc news national affairs analyst john hellman, a partner and chief political columnist at pok. former white house director of

communications to president obama jennifer paul hammy and co-host of the msnbc podcast how to win 2024 with claire mccaskill. and msnbc contributor and author of the book, how the right lost its mind. charlie sykes. here we are and here is more of what nikki haley said yesterday in her first public appearance since exiting the race in march. followed by what she was saying about trump during the primary. >> i put my priorities on a president who's going to have the backs of our allies and hold our enemies to account. who would secure the border. no more excuses. a president who would support capitalism and freedom. a president who understands we need less debt and not more debt.

trump has not been perfect on these policies. i have made that clear many, many times, but biden has been a catastrophe. so, i will be voting for trump. having said that, i stand by what i said in my suspension speech. trump would be smart to reach out to the millions of people who voted for me and continue to support me, and not assume that they are just going to be with him. and i genuinely hope he does that. >> you know, that is one of the most remarkably onboard from facts description on why you're voting for donald trump i've ever heard. i mean, it is mind boggling that somebody who actually claims to know anything about policy would say what she just

said. like i said, i'm not shocked she cynical pick she's been cynical her entire political career. it doesn't shock me she went back to trump. but you're going to have to do a lot better than that, nikki. hold our enemies to account? hold our enemies to account? you know, john, where do we begin when we talk about how he lavishes praise on vladimir putin. trump lavishes praise on president xi jinping. sends love letters to kim jong- un. he loves our enemies and loves the tyrants that hate the united states of america. to their very core. what is she talking about? joe biden has hemmed in china in the pacific. we've seen it. we talked about it. it's a part of the historical record.

he is leading the effort to push back vladimir putin that were donald trump says, basically, turn it over. i'm going to end this war in day one and call putin brilliant or what he did. and, yes, he says he has a love affair with kim jong-un, the most recent tyrant who wants to nuke the west coast of the united states of america. so hold our enemies to account? that is completely fact-free garbage. and then you go to supporting capitalism. let me say again. the dow is over 40,000 points. if rishi sunak had the economy in britain that we have here, he would be and much better shape on july 4 when the next election is called. we have, and conservative economists will say this and columnist will say -- we have

the strongest economy in the world. there is not a close second. we are the envy of the world. and somehow donald trump is going to do better than that throwing up tariffs and protective orders then even the wall street journal calls a nightmare? and, finally, again, because i got to congress because i was worried about the national debt? she says joe biden's been a disaster on the national debt. so she is going to support donald trump. donald trump in four years raised america's national debt more, just him, 45, then presidents 1 through 44 did over 240 years. i mean, think about this.

think about just how rock -- we were supposed to play back to back clips. we were supposed to play those clips and then what she some of the campaign. i said, well, this is how people spread disinformation and lies and get away with it where you just let -- keep going? sometimes you need to stop things and just explain how big her lies were there. she lied about the economy. she lied about dead. just look. just look at the numbers. she lied through her teeth about that and she lied about donald trump holding her enemies accountable when he actually praises our enemies. and sends love letters to them and talks about how brilliant they are because they can hold down millions and millions of their countrymen and women. i'll let you go from there. seriously. i'm not shocked at the

endorsement. i am shocked that she would sink so low, so fast, and just lie about the facts as badly as she did. >> morning, joe. how are you? >> i'm doing well. how are you doing? >> the rudy coffee is flowing. >> no. if you're not shocked by that, john -- i know it's very funny. but if you're not shocked by her lying through her teeth that way. she could've picked three or four other issues. she could've talked about afghanistan. she could've talked about inflation? she could've talked about two or three -- the cost of gasoline but she picks these three things she actually picks donald trump on policy. his weakest points and then lies to the american people about it. so, yeah, i'm not laughing about that. >> i'm not laughing either. i'm just saying you are fired up. that was my only comment about the rudy coffee. >> very happy and calm. >> good. look here to just say

a couple quick things. one, of course there is a history in presidential primaries of tough primaries. opponents sing tough things about each other on both sides of the aisle. there is also a little bit further over garden-variety political cynicism where people engage in politics and we say some things that maybe it would be hard to walk back if we really help people to their words. to joe's point, this is a different category of thing here because, i mean, as you know, i was out there and i listen to her and she got tougher and tougher on trump from iowa to know him for, south carolina. i listen to her get closer and closer to the edge. and she wasn't making critiques of trump on policy, primarily pick she was saying things like, i've been in the room with donald trump and vladimir putin and coming very close to saying that he's not fit,

competent to serve. you made the point earlier about the drivers license. she would go right to the edge of making the kind of critiques that progressive demo tracks and never trump's have made. those are existential arguments. the not about any policy pick there about this man is not fit to serve pick this man is a threat to democracy. all of that. right in that zone. and then to retreat to policy is so craven and cynical. and to joe's point, i think what we have learned about her, the cynical, the most negative critical people of nikki haley have always said she is ambition incarnate. you cannot believe a word out of her mouth. she will say what ever. and she will change her mind from monday to tuesday and wednesday to thursday but there are people that would say you're being misogynistic about that and you don't hold men to the

standards. i think some of us bend over backwards in this winter. to say, maybe she is finally coming to jesus here and she's not going to go back. she's going to stake her claim and say in theory that trump loses this fall that she can say i was right all along. i want to say here that, a, we should never believe a word she says about anything ever again, and b, she must not be allowed by republican voters who continue to go to the polls -- she still is getting 20% of the vote in this month. 20% of republicans in the primaries are still voting for her but they must not let her in november -- >> those are people choosing against trump which is interesting. >> what they can't let her do is it trump loses in november stand up and say, oh, i told you so. >> stay with us. we will continue this conversation right after a

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welcome back to morning joe: weekend. let's pick back up on the conversation we were having before the break. >> the biden campaign weighed in yesterday after nikki haley said she would vote for donald trump writing, quote, nothing has changed for the millions of republican voters who continue to cast a ballot against trump in the primaries and care deeply about the future of our democracy. the biden team shared a video montage on social media of haley primary voters who say they would choose biden over trump in november. this is a section of voters that the biden campaign has been courting, continues to court, those 20% that john was talking about the primaries in places like pennsylvania, indiana and nebraska. for his part donald trump said during the campaign that he did not

want nikki haley voters to vote for him because they would be banished from the mega camp for the sin of supporting nikki haley in the primaries. >> they are forever banned t- shirt that nikki haley gave to her donors. this is going to be a big priority for the biden campaign. there is the group republicans against trump, the sarah longwell group. that universe of voters is bigger than it's ever been. there was a universe of voters of republicans against trump in 't 16 and 20 instagram '24 in terms of who biden has open to him that he can reach out to to try to whenever their support. you're not going to get all 20% but even if you get a few percent of that 20%, we are talking a tight election and that could be the margin of victory. the thing, when i heard her, when i heard the haley video i thought it was from the

campaign. from the primary because she was talking about someone who would stand with their allies. and as joe said, talking about that. she can't even be intellectually consistent in the moment she is saying she's going to vote for trump? and it just, you know, it contributes so much to cynicism and it lifts up trump's message that, like thomas c? none of this matters. it's all just a game. my new friend, sarah matthews, former trump staffer, opposes trump now. you see them on twitter and the like, see, this is what politicians do. it's not what all politicians do . it's what nikki haley is doing and what republicans are prop up trump do. and in the end it does kind of help him see, none of these people are on the level or serious. >> were going to take a look at her during the 2016 campaign and how she framed -- this is 2020, actually -- sorry -- what are we showing? okay. here is nikki haley in 2023.

>> times change and so has trump. he's gotten more unstable and unhinged. >> if you mock the service of a combat veteran, you don't deserve a drivers license, let alone being president of the united states. >> we've seen him get confused. he was confused about me having something to do with giving security away from the capitol. he was confused when he said biden was going to run us into world war ii. >> he's not qualified to be the president of the united states? >> is not normal to insult our military heroes and veterans. >> he was thin-skinned and easily distracted. >> it's not normal to spend $50 million in campaign contributions on personal court cases. >> there is no way that the american people are going to vote for a convicted criminal. >> it's not normal to threaten

people who back your opponent. >> he went and was trying to buddy up with putin. every time he was in the same room with him he got weak in the knees. >> and that's not normal to call on russia to invade nato countries. donald trump has done all of that and more in just the past month. >> made so much sense. jonathan, what you think is behind this decision? is she running to bbp? could that be already being cooked up and what is the opportunity for the biden campaign? >> just about everything she said there we don't need to fact check. she was right. the timing of this is puzzling but no one made her endorse donald trump yesterday. no one made her say she would vote for him. it has been a little bit it speculation and media reports that she could be a vp pick up back the trump cabinet although trump said she was not in the running to be his vice president. >> but we can believe anything he says. >> we can believe anything he says either. hard to say. i should note in that same speech yesterday she delivered

a full throated defense of ukraine think the united states need to give ukraine whatever it takes. give them every weapon they need in order to defeat vladimir putin in russia. and in her next breath set i'm going to vote for donald trump, who of course we know will not do that. siding with putin time and time again. charlie sykes, rank hypocrisy at the highest level yesterday and deeply disappointed many republicans who thought haley would hold strong. how much do you think this matters? are people coming out in every primary still voting for her. will they take cues from her and say, okay, i'm going to vote for trump? or will they be like, you know what? i wasn't really for nikki haley but i was simply against donald trump and i will say that way? >> i don't think we'll have that much of an effect. she is saying she hopes the donald trump reaches out to her voters but donald trump did nothing for her. nikki haley come in many ways, this is peak nikki haley picture turns out to be a cheap date for donald trump. but this is a choice that she

made. it's a very different choice than liz cheney made an adam kinzinger mate and chris christie made in a different points that mike pence may. i don't think that it makes that much of a difference. but it's so revealing about, first of all, her character. i wrote a piece called the unbearable lightness of nikki. so there's nothing surprising about her getting back on the trump train pick she's gone on and off and on and off. but to joe's point, how do you make a full throated defense of ukraine and then turn around and endorse someone who has made it clear that he will pull out of nato, that he will abandon ukraine. who actually invited vladimir putin to invade europe. it makes no sense except in the context of nikki haley's unbridled ambition. and one footnote here. if you look at the screen of her endorsement, she is now affiliated with the hudson institute, which is one of the conservative think tanks out there the moment she signed up

for that, i think it was inevitable that she would endorse donald trump because this is what the republican donor class demands. there is no way that the hudson institute would embrace her unless she is going to, basically, bow the knee. but i don't know that this changes the dynamics of the race at all. and frankly, i don't know that it positions her particularly well. she is not going to be the vice president. i think that's absurd. i don't know that the maga world will ever welcome her back in because she is in their minds disloyal and she is a neocon. her cynicism has led her to a position where i think she will find herself very lonely very soon >> next, british by minister rishi sunak set the dates of the national elections in the uk. date that happens to have deep significance in the u.s.. with peptide complex. fortifies hair bonds

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the united kingdom will hold its general election on july 4. british prime minister rishi sunak made the surprise announcement yesterday outside 10 downing street but the july 4 date comes months before it was expected. sunak had until december to call an election. that could've happened as late as january 28 of next year . sunak's conservative party, which has ruled for the past 14 years has seen its support steadily dwindle. the center-left labour party is strongly favored in the upcoming election with multiple polls showing it about 20 points i had. joining us live from london is our international correspondent josh letterman just outside parliament. what was behind this surprise news? >> reporter: the smart money

had been that prime minister sunak would wait until later in the fall to hold the selections in part to give himself more time to try to turn around his party's political fortunes by then. but he appears to have made the calculation that now is as good a time as any. that really wasn't going to get much better. and some recent positive economic news with inflation here plummeting to 2%, 2.3%, down from a high of 11% a couple years ago. made this a good time to try to kickstart this campaign. as of this morning, this six- week campaign has now started with a bang. both sunak and labor leader keir starmer are hitting the campaign trail today. sunak will be in scotland while keir starmer will be campaigning and can't . a lot of the themes of this campaign really do mirror some of the frustrations we hear from voters in the united states. a lot of frustration with the economy. frustration with the failures

of the government to stop immigration and to secure the borders with rishi sunak campaigning on the beginning of his newly enacted plan to send migrants, asylum-seekers across in small boats to the uk on flights to rwanda, saying those flights will start after the july 4 election. of course keir starmer and the labour party had promised to scrap that plan entirely if they are elected . interestingly, from keir starmer, and the labour leader, were not hearing big, bold campaign promises and exactly what he is going to do. his message seems to be that he is going to be the one that will bring stability to british politics after a tumultuous period under 14 years of conservative leadership where we've had a rotating cast of prime minister's picker has been the perception that this government has been unable to deliver on its promises to turn the economy around, to deal with the crisis in the national health service come and to deal

with asylum-seekers and irregular migration. starmer campaigning as the person who will bring some order and stability to that. of course that is giving an opening to the conservatives to say, the labour party does not even really have a plan at this point. they are unprepared to lead this government. one person who will not be participating in this election is nigel farage, the far right leader and champion of brexit, who was expected to potentially campaign as part of the reform party but he announced just this morning that he is not going to do that. he says instead he will focus on his bigger priority, which he says is to help donald trump get elected in the united states . coming up. a former obama adviser mourns the impact of a trump re- election on the u.s. supreme court could be catastrophic.

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former president obama adviser dan pfeiffer is warning about the impact a second trump term could have on the supreme court. here is what the pod save america co-host said. >> think about the stakes in the supreme court. if donald trump wins he will almost only get two more appointments. by the end of his second term were he to win, just as thomas will be 82. alito will be 78.

>> there's definitely retiring. >> definitely retiring. >> and it could be kb j holding down the fort? >> and justice sotomayor -- you will deftly get two appointments. that means he will of appointed five supreme court justices, all of whom will be around or below the age of 60 when he leaves office. that is a court majority, a maga court majority that will rule for decades we can win the next however many presidential elections and absent something, sort of, extraordinary happening, trump's fingerprints will be all over the supreme court. so, i think we should make this a big issue. and we know this works because in 2016 that vacant justice scalia seat that mcconnell held open was one reason, or a lot of focus groups and postelection survey said that republicans who did not like trump at the last minute were willing to hold their nose and vote for trump because they care about the supreme court. i think we can do that in

reverse? >> there we go. the thought of that supreme court under a second trump term and women's rights have already been scaled back. our health is now less safe because of donald trump and supreme court choices. imagine what dan pfeiffer is imagining moving forward. it's frightening. >> a couple things here. one is if trump is to lose this november, it will almost certainly be because of his appointees to the supreme court. by that i mean he has, himself, taking credit for appointing the justices who overturned roe v. wade by the issuance of dobbs and that individual line with anything else to this point, i think is the most determinative line of the election. so i think the supreme court, dan is right, it's a monumental issue in that sense. secondarily, dan is right about the actuary tables. the justices are getting older.

the next president likely will get to appoint one or two. i think there's probably going to be an incentive for the two conservative justices to stay on it by is re-elected. this is an issue up for debate. and three, i think the larger, more morbid discussion is is this really the weight we want the supreme court to be decided? we are basically waiting for someone to croak. and there's larger conversations to be had about reforming the court to make it so that you don't have this type of intense governing entity be decided by someone's health, well-being. but rather you can do something that has term limits or structures so that every president gets a certain amount of appointments but that discussion is not happening. i want to be clear but maybe it should be. >> i just say, mika , this is an extraordinarily important discussion that needs to continue to be had. i wrote a

column about this in the washington post about four years ago where i laid it out direct me. there has to be court reform. you can't have -- for instance, roe v. wade. roe v. wade was overturned because ruth bader ginsburg went to an event, got sick and died. history hung on that balance. the 50 year rite ended because of that. and it is a ghoulish spectacle of people trying to hold on for dear life until their party comes into power. james has been on the show before and talked about the expansion of the supreme court that has been thought out for the next 20 or 30 years, where each president gets two selections. and you term limit, you term limit supreme court justices. i think america it may be the only western power that has

judges appointed for life. >> next, steve ratner proves that all of the economic doom and gloom chatter coming from many on the far right simply isn't supported by the facts. er. some people say, "why should i take prevagen? i don't have a problem with my memory." memory loss is, is not something that occurs overnight. i started noticing subtle lapses in memory. i want people to know that prevagen has worked for me. it's helped my memory. it's helped my cognitive qualities. give it a try. i want it to help you just like it has helped me. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. you know what's brilliant? boring. think about it. boring is the unsung catalyst for bold. what straps bold to a rocket and hurtles it into space? boring does. boring makes vacations happen, early retirements possible, and startups start up. because it's smart, dependable, and steady. all words you want from your bank.

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despite strong economic numbers, new polling finds most americans believe the countries in a recession. it is not. the latest harris poll conducted for the guardian shows 56% of adults expressed the belief that we are in a recession including 67% of republicans, 49% of democrats and 53% of independents. and although inflation has fallen sharply the past year, 72% of adults still think that is increasing. joining us now is the former trevor shirley assistant steve ratner to separate perception from the facts of this economy. good morning.

we can start with the idea of the united states being in a recession right now, which he plainly is not. we can talk about why so many americans believe that but let's talk first in your chart about where we really are. >> it's really quite an extraordinary pole. we've seen polls before the show americans having a more negative view on the economy. i've never seen one quite like this phase of the number you mentioned in your lead-in. roughly more than half of americans think were in a recession. it's divided somewhat by party but more republicans, city 7% feel it then democrats but even democrats, 40% feel it. facing this divergence before and interestingly enough it flips around with every election, not surprisingly. here's the reality that the economy has basically been growing since covid except a small downturn here. under joe biden is grown by 2.8% a year, which is slightly faster than it was growing under trump, even before covid hit.

and so you can see every quarter we've had reasonably strong economic growth. why do people feel this is a mystery. >> steve, what about this other, -- low unemployment. surging stock market and yet -- how do you explain what's going on with the economy? >> you get the same results when you look at those things pick 50% of americans think unemployment is at a 50 year high. 50% think it's that a 50 year high. unemployment is actually at 850 year low. it's really amazing. unemployment is below 4%. it's been below 4% for months and months now. and it's just extraordinary that people think were at a 50 year high. you can see some of the highs over here. another issue are stocks. half of americans think stocks are down this year. stocks are actually up 11% this year. up 45% since joe biden took office. complete disconnect in people's minds, perception and reality

of the stock market? >> there are some people who are legitimately feeling the pinch still, and yet, overall, americans have a very negative perception of bidens economy and is that fair? what do you see? >> what is interesting, and we looked at these numbers before, is if you ask people how their own finances are, about 75% think they are okay and that really goes all the way back to 2018. pretty consistently. what has happened in the last number of years and not just hunter biden but really started back in 2019 or thereabouts, the perception of how local economies are doing has deteriorated and perception of how the national economy is doing has deteriorated. people have created this dichotomy in their minds between the national economy, the local economy and themselves. what is also interesting most recently, and these are from other polls that have come out

lately -- what is also interesting is the way divergence between sentiment and approval has occurred. people sentiment about the economy has actually been trending up. we had one bad number the other day but we will have to see if it's an aberration. but the general trend has been improving sentiment. on the other hand, bidens approval ratings have been trending down. there obviously a lot of other things going on, particularly the war in gaza and so on and so forth, but there seems to be now a spread between how people feel about the economy to some degree, and how they feel about biden. coming up. actor john leguizamo on his new series, highlighting some of the darker aspects of the american dream. advil dual action fights pain two ways. advil targets pain at the source, acetaminophen blocks pain signals. advil dual action.

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did you have a good day? >> yeah. i did. >> and you? >> i feel happy. >> i wonder why? >> i'm grateful for family. >> don't you dare. that's enough? >> for my profession. >> where is my daughter? where is my daughter? >> and for purpose. >> tell me where you were.

>> these invasions are real. >> what your job in all this. >> my work is top secret. >> that was the part of the trailer for the new limited series entitled the greenvale. the show follows an fbi agent in the 1950s as he takes part any federal government's efforts to remove native american children from their families. the series is based on a real period of time in the 20th century when the u.s. government would take indigenous children from their homes to be assimilated with white families or within predominately white institutions. joining us now is the star of the green veil, emmy and tony award-winning actor, john leguizamo. he also serves as executive producer on the show. thank you for coming. it's good to have you. tell us about the green veil

and what are you to it? >> this is based on historic fact so in the 1950s the u.s. government, as you were saying, was coming up with excuses to take native american children from the reservations above them up for adoption so they could not inherit the land so the land would become free for oil companies and other corporations that wanted it. when i heard, when i heard the creator tell me about the show i said, i'm in. the stories need to be told and they need to be heard. that's why the creator also created this new platform, the network, which is free and binge right now. anything free for me. everyone is like me. it is that network.stream. we made the platform because these shows, you know, even though hollywood says we want to be inclusive and we want to do these important stuff. they don't. they all passed. they loved it but they would not put it on. it was too edgy.

it's about native americans with a latin lead. it was difficult for them. >> they all passed. >> let me ask you and i'm a longtime fan of yours but this project here, given the climate we are in and this election, is it important for us to not hide what government is capable of doing and that we need to make sure they don't do it again. because the story you are telling in the green veil, this was government doing this to people for economic reasons and gains ? payment for corporations pick >> corporations. on people based on who they are. >> it's always important to show the stories and say the government can be great but also do abusive things, especially when it's for people of color, especially one of the most abused groups in america, the indigenous people. >> this was such -- the practice there was even a supreme court decision last year.

tell us the real life story here. how is this still reverberating around families? >> a1 from the '50s to the '80s. and in the series we interview real children that grew up who are now in their 40s and 50s and how traumatic this was. how a lot of them ended up in drug abuse, all kinds of difficult situations. some of them took their lives. it had terrible repercussions. it was not a better situation for them. that's all the time we have. we will be back tomorrow morning. mo rrow morning. we will be back tomorrow morning at 6:00 a.m. eastern. until then, enjoy the rest of your saturday. ♪ ♪ good morning. it is saturday, may 25th. i am alicia menendez alongside symone sanders-townsend and michael steele in washington,