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good morning. it is saturday, may 25th. i'm charles coleman jr. filling in for my friend allie velshi. we've got a lot to talk about. in the last seven days donald trump has reminded us of the many reasons why he remains a danger to the constitution and overall to democracy itself. let's start when the former president appeared in nra convention in texas. during his speech that presumptive presidential nominee asked the critical quote, are we going to be considered three- term or two-term? some can interpret that to mean just because trump continuously is delusional and believes he won the 2020 election, a

possible victory this year could be considered in his eyes a third presidential term. for others, it raises concerns that trump might be floating the idea of serving more than two terms. which is something he also slightly suggested at a couple rallies during his presidential campaign four years ago. there are a lot of things i could say about this idea. aspirational, presumptive, even perhaps bizarre. but i will keep it pretty basic with two words. highly unconstitutional. see, the 22nd amendment explicitly forbids that. on top of that, he has called for the termination of the constitution and said he would only be a dictator for one day. over a possible second term. the guy is a walking, breathing constitutional crisis waiting to happen. on monday, concerned about his authoritarian tendencies resurface again they noticed

that there was a video that was shared on a social account that suggested victory with the to, quote, the creation of a unified reich. that is a term that is often associated with hitler's's rain in germany and is very serious. the post has been deleted but it was still a reminder of donald trump and what his campaign's dog whistles have been and will be going forward. amid all of this, the former president rapidly promoted an absurd conspiracy theory that president biden ordered the fbi to assassinate trump when they did a search of mar-a-lago and 2022. a number of its allies also irresponsibly spread that same conspiracy on television and on social media. but there is absolutely no truth to that lie. it is a lie that has been debunked before but it is still

hasn't stopped donald trump from fund-raising up that my because again, that is what he does. that is his jam. meanwhile, turning to our judiciary. the supreme court's credibility took another hit this week. the new york times reported that a second flag link to the far right and the january 6th insurrection was displayed at a second home belonging to supreme court justice samuel alito. his apparent political bias is under serious scrutiny again during a critical time for the high court. believe me, this matters, perhaps right now or than any other specific moment that we can think of. why is that? because soon the justices will issue a pair of important decisions that could affect trump's federal election interference case and that could have ager implications for the upcoming election. i am joined now by a professor of history at nyu and the

author of the newsletter lucid and author of the book strongmen. mussolini to the present. jennifer rubin, an opinion rider -- writer and analyst and author of resistance, how women save democracy from donald trump. a second flag at a second alito house. does this surprise you or is it just blowing in the wind? >> i have to say i am so glad i am home with ruth because her book is no longer history, it is journalism and it extrication of exactly what is happening every day. these people are shameless. we should believe what they say. verbally and symbolically. what alito is saying is, i am not bound by the normal rules of judicial ethics. i can identify with and insurrectionist movement that is seeking to overturn the constitution. i have taken an oath to uphold and apply and that is how shameless and how

out in the open all of this is. what is really the problem here aside from people like alito and people like trump is that the people who are in a position to do something about it consent. they go along. she justice roberts does nothing. and republicans do nothing. one trump talks in these authoritarian ways and makes these claims of conspiracies and violence. because we have a core group that is promoting violence, authoritarian rule, disrespect for the rule of law, and we have another group of people enabling them, we come to a constitutional crisis and that is what this election is about. will we reestablish a constitutional framework in which not only the president the people around him take responsibility for reinforcing the rule of law or are we going to get in essence no doubt and

authoritarian rule where anything goes and right is right and there are no restrictions for those in power. >> jen, that is an important framing and i'm glad you set it up that way. ruth, i am always glad to talk to you but i am happy because i have twice mislabeled your book on air and i finally got the title right today. i am happy about that. justice alito said that the upside down american flag, that was his wife's messe. he hasn't commented about the second leg but ultimately we know he doesn't have to do anything about this. there are no boundaries from an ethical standpoint other than impeachment which we can pretty much rule out at this point. four justices, what does this tell you about the current state of the u.s. judiciary and how concerned should we be given where we are? >> well, very because fascism

isn't a day job. it requires you to not only have far right rulings if you are a supreme court justice, but actually shows your personal conduct that you discredit and delegitimize the institutions of democracy. that is what is happening and also justice thomas refusing to recuse, that is personal conduct even though his wife was involved in overthrowing the government. this is a very purposeful act, both the flying of the flag and also refusing to be apologetic about it. laming it on his wife. this is purposeful because you have to demonstrate loyalty to the public if your goal is not just to have far right rulings, but actually wrecked democracy by delegitimizing the most important institution of democracy and one of them at

least, the supreme court. >> ruth, you have the historical context about this and where things go. do you think that returning to some degree of normalcy in terms of what we expect, does that responsibility on the elected or doesn't fall on the actual institutions to say or recalibrate and say, no, this is what is normal and what should take place? >> well, institutions are made up of people and jennifer was very correct to call out the enablers. the people who have to be the ones to intervene -- excuse me. the people have to intervene at crucial points on this is a crucial point. so justice roberts, the people who are supposed to have that guard rails for us, we can vote, but institutions are made up of people and all these

things you mentioned in your set up our actually connected. with the assassination claim that biden is trying to assassinate him, what you need to do and this is in my book, autocrats have to create a crisis and people to be okay with violence and be okay with autocracy. you have to get a sense that are only the election was stolen from him. he's already done that. but his life is threatened now. you get people into a state of x essential fear and dread and then they will accept him coming in as the kind of dictator and that is what goes to the video where he is depicted with all the strange illusions of world war i and talk about world war i in the video. as though he is setting himself up to be the new hitler who comes in at this moment of crisis and saves us. all of this is very disturbing and the more you know about fascism, it's i said it -- it's

aesthetics and ideology you see what is going on. >> jen, when i talk to people often times i hear what i like to describe is a willful ignorance when they talk about donald trump that they say things like, while he says a lot of things or, he said this and that was a mistake. or he was joking around. you can't take him seriously. you talk about the fact in your piece this week that these were not gaffes. the were not mistakes and not things that are being said on accident. how do you respond to the folks who say, while he says a lot of stuff and you can't take everything seriously? he can't mean everything he says that you guys are saying. >> well, i think the best evidence is here on it. he talked about his victory which was nonexistent in 2020 and talked about the people not standing for it and he let a

violent insurrection. when he says something, he means it. and he does it. now, we can point to history and say that these dictatorial fixtures -- figures carry through in democracies and democratic peoples are often willfully ignorant as you put it to the threats but in this case, we don't even have to look to history of the 1930s. we just have to look to 2001. this is what donald trump does. i think this willful ignorance is really an equal problem for us. i would add on the subject of alito, the problem also resides with people like senator durbin who makes a tweet and writes a letter saying please recuse himself or will you come and have a meeting? he actually has power. he has the power of the gavel and call a hearing and demand alito appear and call experts on judicial ethics. he could put his bill that he

has been working on for over a year on a mandatory set of ethics for the supreme court and demand go to the floor. he is doing nothing. so i don't want to make this a what about is him or both sides are responsible, but in this case, there is a direct responsibility from another branch which right now has -- half controlled by republican and have controlled by democrats i will have much to say about this in a piece for sunday. so if your viewers are interested in hearing more, read my column. that is my shameless plug for the day. that is a real problem because when democrats don't rise to the occasion, republican say, see, no big deal. everything goes on as normal and the press moves onto the next issue. >> i am looking forward to reading the piece and i'm sure

many of our viewers are as well. thank you to you both. cocoa villa had on "velshi," there is a governor in south dakota making headlines once again. this time it is not for killing her dog. her go. stay tuned to hear what that is all about. also, keep all of donald trump's four separate criminal proceedings in mind. we will talk about how they are shaping out and what is next. also, after that, a group of women in california created their own velshi banned book club. we spoke with him about reading as resistance and the clear connection between the preservation of democracy and freedom to read. that's all coming up on more "velshi" . i'm charles coleman jr. stay right there.

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south dakota's republican governor kristi noem made headlines again this week. the spoiler alert, this time it wasn't for killing her dog. just a few weeks ago we told her -- she was banned from reservations interstate and as of this week and classic hold my beer fashion, she's done it. governor kristi noem has been banned from all my native american reservations in her own state. why? well, a staunch trump supporter and contender to be his running mate has adopted trump's rhetoric around immigration and she can't stop talking about the border crisis, the violent drug trafficking cartels and, quote, or zone at the southern border. in a series of statements since january, she has blamed the reservations in south dakota for harboring cartel members claiming that the cartels are infiltrating the tribes and using the reservation to spread

fentanyl throughout the state. earlier this year, during a press conference, she said, quote we've got some tribal leaders that i believe are personally fitting from the cartels being there and that is why they attack me every day. let's examine this. the governor is peddling a belief that mexican immigrants who are affiliated with drug cartels have infiltrated native american reservations for safe harbor and are distributing narcotics with the aid and approval of the tribes that they are willingly harboring felonious activity. folks, this is insane. the decision to ban kristi noem goes further than her comments. they said in a statement, quote, this decision does not come after one or two incidents but after years of witnessing the governor's aggressive actions against tribes. there really is a long list of reasons why south dakota's native people are not pleased

with the governor. she was slow to deploy the south dakota national guard to assist people during a deadly snowstorm. i even as that happened, she did not hesitate to deploy the national guard to the southern border to curb immigration. on top of that, she tried to stop the reservations from imposing covid-19 checkpoints at the peak of the pandemic. she also facilitated the south dakota department of education and removing the bulk of native history and culture amidst k-12 curriculum. the list is long and goes on and on. it appears that indigenous south dakotans have had enough. and noem is banished from all the tribal in the entire state that she actually governs. still ahead, we could have a verdict in terms hush money case as early as next week. with the former president still having several other proceedings ahead of him. we will catch you up on everything on the legal document

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learn more at viking.com. welcome back to "velshi" on msnbc. i'm charles coleman jr. in for ali. next week we could have a verdict in donald trump's hush money case. as that trial wraps up, there are several other legal cases staring him in the face. trump is looking at four separate terminal proceeding while trying to take back the white house. let's check in on each one of them. we can start with that hush money election interference trial happening right here in new york. trump is accused of illegal concealing hush money payments to stormy daniels back in 2016 in order to conceal the

payment as a way of influencing the election. witnesses for the prosecution included stormy daniels, former trump fixer michael cohen and trump aide hope hicks. the defense in the case rested their case on tuesday. closing arguments are expected to begin this coming tuesday after which the jury will decide trump's fate without hearing from the former president who originally said he would absolutely testify. he did not take the stand in his own defense. moving on, we've got the classified documents case in florida out of mar-a-lago. the special counsel has charged trump and two others with retaining security documents and taking them from the white house to his mar-a-lago residence and lying to investigators about them. there is a crime and then there is the covenant -- cover-up which is bigger than the crime itself. that trial was set to start on may 20th, but the district judge aileen cannon has postponed indefinitely to resolve some pretrial conflicts. so we're go to georgia.

where we have the state election interference case which is being prosecuted by none other than fulton county d.a. fani willis. trump and 18 others were charged with participating in a scheme to overturn the results in georgia. four co-defendants have already taken guilty pleas. among those are rudy giuliani, john eastman, and mark meadows. this case has had some setbacks after the revelation of a romantic relationship between d.a. willis and special prosecutor nathan wade. the judge ruled against disqualifying willis from the case but trump's lawyers have now asked an appeals court to reverse that decision. while the prosecutor has requested that the trial start in august, judge mcafee has not yet set a date. then, there is the federal election interference case against trump where jack smith and the doj indicted him over

his role in the plot to overturn the 2020 election ultimately leading to the january 6th insurrection. that case is taking place in d.c. where prosecutors have laid out a sprawling scheme by trump alleging that he and his allies knowingly pushed lies about the election and works to enlist fake electors and battleground states while also pushing then vice president mike pence to reject the election results. trump has been trying to get everything on this case as well as the others thrown out. which is why it is currently on pause by the supreme court weighs in on his claim of presidential immunity. so, three of the four indictments against donald trump have hit some kind of roadblock. if there is anything to be said about america's tier two -- two- tiered system of justice, this is a case study -- case study when you have access to resources that most of us don't have. like top lawyers and a stream of cash coming from your own political super p.a.c.

if trump retakes office when the clock strikes midnight, all of these cases just might pull their own disappearing act. joining me to discuss the various trials is msnbc legal analyst and criminal defense attorney. i miss you in the studio but i am glad you're here. i can finally take off my glasses and talk to a lawyer. i've been waiting all morning. we have closing argument set to go on tuesday. what are you watching for, my friend? >> i am watching for what i expect from the prosecution. they laid out their case and it is indisputable essentially that these transactions took place from cohen and stormy daniels and trump's -- the real challenge for the prosecution is hammering home the intent and the attendant -- meanwhile that is what the defense will

focus on. really, three prongs. number one, michael cohen is a liar, which is probably a wash since the prosecution acknowledged that michael cohen was a liar but they introduce lots of evidence and documents to corroborate what he said. i expect to see an empty chair defense. where is allen weisselberg in the chief financial guy for the trump organization whose handwriting is literally, not figuratively, literally all over this case. it is in the main documents on the basis of the prosecution's case. thirdly, look for the defense to argue that the requisite intent to defraud and whether or not trump caused these documents to be falsified, the evidence isn't there. about this case, charles, i thought the prosecution did a good job of making out their case. i believe there is enough for a jury to find guilty, but once

we got to the charging conference, i realize something important lawyers likely would me were struggling to figure out exactly what was going on in the courtroom in real time because we were there, but it highlighted the fact that the charging conference, these issues are complex and difficult to wrap our brains around the if they are hard for us, we have the benefit of the internet and these jurors don't have access to that separate yes, they have two lawyers on the team, but i am willing to bet those two lawyers like the rest of us have never dealt like -- with a case like this including the prosecutors. there has never been a case like this in new york. they may struggle with the elements of intent for no other reason than we all struggle with them for the better part of a couple years now. >> those are two important elements. i am glad you laid those out and brought up the notion of the empty chair defense. that is something that i thought the defense would rely on. speaking of which, you are the perfect person to talk about this with a lot of people have

been talking about the notion that the defense has no narrative. they don't have not that they have not proven anything. can you remind our viewers as to why that is not the appropriate way to look at evaluating this case? >> let's start with the defense. they have zero burden of proof. arguably that is why they may have made a mistake calling two witnesses. it spiritually shifts the burden because now you put on a couple witnesses and the jury is thinking, what are they trying to prove? the defense doesn't have to prove anything. however, as the defense attorney you would like to have an alternate theory of the case. if this was a bank robbery you might have used some other dude did it. and point to that empty chair. they do have that defense and that will be the other dude and that is allen weisselberg and the other dude is michael

cohen. they did it. that is there alternate theory of the case. but if you cannot come up with an alternate theory, which happens, because the prosecution takes the case, not the defense. if you don't have room for an alternate theory, then you fall back to the default position which is, they haven't proven the case beyond a reasonable doubt and have the burden and the burden never shifts. there is doubt in this case and that is all we need to do here. we don't need to prove a darn thing. but i will tell you, if there argument is only reasonable doubt, that means it is a tough case and they could not come up with an alternate theory. they may have that empty chair and be able to point to michael cohen but it is not the perfect situation for the defense. >> some dude named danny has all the answers. thank you my friend. please enjoy your holiday weekend. we'll be right back with more "velshi."

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president biden is in west point, new york, this morning for the commencement ceremony at the military academy. you are taking a live look at the president greeting some of the cadets as they receive their diplomas. earlier he gave the commencement speech. he also focused on the future accomplishment of the cadet that were in the crowd. let's take a listen. >> on your first day at west point you raised the right hand and took an oath not to a political party, not to a president, to the constitution of the united of america against all enemies foreign and domestic.

members of the long gray line have given their lives for the constitution. they have fought to defend the freedoms that protects and the right to vote and the right to worship and the right to raise your voice and protest. they have saved and sacrificed to ensure as president lincoln said, a government of the people, by the people, and for the people shall not perish from the earth. >> joining me now from delaware is aaron gilchrest. thank you for being here. what was the reception like for president biden at west point? >> a warm reception for the president as you might expect as he is at a military academy. you are looking at some of the live pictures from the ceremony which is ongoing.

he is shaking hands with the cadets who would become officers in the army at the end of the ceremony today. this is the second commencement and final commencement of this graduation season. and this casey reminded these young men and women they are joining what he described as the most honorable and can't control lighting force in the history of the world. during his speech today he talked about the responsibilities that the united states and u.s. military has in helping stabilize countries and regions around the world. obviously addressing what is happening in ukraine and talking about the united states working to help equip the soldier there in ukraine and train them as well. he spoke about the russian onslaught in ukraine that we have been watching for more than a year now and reference the fact that -- he called vladimir putin a tyrant and his comments today and talked about the work the military has done to help get aid and support to

the palestinians who are suffering in gaza right now. he talked about helping israel by thomas and other powers around the region that are what he calls -- called proxy powers. then we heard him issue a charge to these graduates as well. he said that you are graduating into a world like none before. that is the motto for the class of 2024 at west point. he issued this charge. listen. >> west pointers, they know better than anyone, freedom is not free. it requires constant vigilance. for them the very beginning nothing is guaranteed about our democracy in america. any generation has an obligation to defend it, protect, preserve it, and now is your turn. >> i think it's worth noting that the president speaking at west point today on memorial

day weekend is a singular responsibility that a u.s. president has as commander in chief. he is the one who will send potentially these young men and women into harm's way and it's worth noting that president biden will mark the death of his son beau biden who was a u.s. army officer as well this coming week on thursday. that will be the ninth anniversary of his passing. charles. >> that was airing gilchrist. thank you for being here. still ahead, the velshi band book club is galvanizing readers, especially women. one group was inspired to read and created their own velshi banned book club. ali velshi spoke with two of those women from that club and their conversation is coming up next. stay tuned for a good one. we'll be right back. of 3.

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in 1634, a puritan ship heading across the atlantic ocean to america, abe club was formed. in 1827, a group of young black women form the book club called the society of young ladies. women up and down the east coast followed suit and created their own branches. in 1996, oprah winfrey launched her book club to mass success and what was called, quote, reading revolution. today, the league of women voters a nonpartisan group of men and women dedicated to promoting political responsibility have formed their own book club. and it is a club for the velshi banned book club. beginning in april, they introduce a series of zoom session dedicated to the velshi banned book club podcast.

the idea was simple and effective. they would gather and discuss the conversations we have with others on the program and together they followed along with the podcast to discuss everything from school shootings to increasingly significant handmaid's tale. to the ever-growing black literary canon in america. these meetings of the velshi banned book club exists in book clubs that have been galvanizing readers, particularly women for generations. for women barred from universities, until recently, book clubs became a critical space to discuss the transformative power of literature and build community and became a powerful tool to engage politically. but today, the league of women voters solano county are not just reading for the enhancement of women but reading for every american. they are reading for children, teens, lgbt ice cube -- lgbtq+ community. >> it stumped the learning

development of young people and i think it's important that teens get exposure and it's important they get a chance to choose especially because their worldviews are forming at such a young age. >> i remember as a kid, i was thrilled to read about things that were outside my own world. it was an exciting thing. >> i think that books are essential tools for understanding complex issues. if you don't quite understand a particular topic or particular issue, the more you read and the more you read and a wide range of points of views and perspectives, the more clarity you have. >> book banning, censorship, is the first drop of poison that will destroy this country from the inside out. one of the most potent antidote

is reading together as resistance. i have known this to been true since the inception of the velshi band book club but the league of women voters solano county have proven that it is making a difference i hoped it would. from behind your tv screen, we have been able to build a community and engage readers and rally americans to make real change and i hope this iteration of the band book club will be the first and far from the last. after the break, i am joined by two members of the league of railroad -- and their book club. alice and -- don't miss this conversation. blistering rash could also disrupt your work and time with family. shingles could also lead to long—term, debilitating nerve pain that can last for months or even years. if you're over 50, the virus that causes shingles is likely already inside of you. (♪♪) and as you age, your risk of developing shingles increases. (♪♪) don't wait. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingles today.

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i am so honored and excited to be joined by two members of league of women voters solano county. they participate in their own club. alice and -- thank you for being with us. alice is the creator of documents the -- to teach

students how to engage in their community. robbie was an educator for forty-year sensors of the vice president of the league of women voters solano county. thank you for being with us . >> thank you for having us. >> let's start with you. i want to start with how the idea for creating this book club came about. >> we decided to build on the work you have done with the banned book club. several people have, you know, watched your broadcast and we are moved by the podcast and the impact that they have. so, based on that and really the whole idea of how do we empower folks and how does education really work to create a dialogue that is meaningful and impactful. so, what we did is we listen to the series that that became the discussion issue. what we tried to do was move it from -- look at it from three different perspectives.

but the words and the authors and the study that you presented was so powerful and helping create context and deepening the understanding of what the message of peace piece of literature was about. you look at the topic of banning books and why? what is that about? what is the underpinning of why people feel like there've you should become the worldview. lastly, we look at the topics which touched us. whether it was school shootings, and as an educator i was superintendent during the time of sandy hook and the impact it had on me as a mother and grandmother and one who had the responsibility of guiding districts through a crisis of that kind. so, out of that came our series. it has been just remarkable to me together with numbers of our community to think together and share community together and laugh and cry and think about

what all of these topics truly mean to us. >> that is the point of it, right? the community that you built? >> exactly. people we never knew, people that are not part of the league, that didn't matter. it was people -- >> alice, -- >> contexts. i think reading helps you put your life into context. it's a resource and it gives you insight into who you are and in many cases who you can be. because it exposes you to others , other cultures, other places, other ideas. answer me this information gives your own life depth and character and personality. how you develop your own belief system. context. if not for my middle school

librarian and magazines, i earned from sleeping on the floor of the pharmacy across the street from my lips, i would probably have a hard time getting out that i could live alone drive outside the housing project in new orleans. >> rami, we do tend to tie it to democracy a little bit. were worried about democracy in america and we tend to think, and i heard quotes from people in your book club talking about why they enjoyed the book club. as you said, and alice's, the context and they learned about things they didn't know. that can't but help create a more informed electorate and that can help create a stronger democracy. >> exactly. we live in an interconnect world we can pretend we don't, but we do and we should celebrate that. diversity is what makes us a great nation. i think the ability for young people to learn to see world

perspectives and see that other people don't think the way they think and there are other experiences in the world and those are an important part of being a well developed critical thinker. that is who we need. that is our -- those are our future leaders and that is why banning books and in schools and libraries limit that. in fact, it stands. it does not protect. it actually has a destructive element in terms of providing a well-rounded experience for our students and learners. as an adult, i savored the ability to read. i challenge myself all the time to read about things that make me uncomfortable. we can learn from discomfort and we can be better. >> we can. yeah. >> to continue to grow and evolve. that i think is a springboard, truthfully, it wasn't

necessarily what we thought, but is an up growth of what we found. we are looking forward to the next phase. we decided that we would say, what do we want to go deeper with? where are we in this journey? the fact that people want to continue to journey together as a statement about its value. >> alice, one of the things we talk about is you learn about other people's experiences and in many cases not experiences you know about. often we talk to people who have gone through a traumatic experience or experience racism or sexism or sexual assault. your point was interesting. you got to see a world that was outside of your world and that give you a sense of, i don't know what? opportunity? promise? >> it gave me the right to dream. the right to hope and the right to recognize that i could actually be alice outside of

these brick walls that i could go out there and make a contribution that would be significant to my family and community and other people. it opened i whirled up to me. i tell students that i work with that if not for reading, if i hadn't gotten pygmalion to read, then got me in the library because when you couldn't go on a field trip, you had to go to the school library. she gave me the book and told me to tell her everything i read about it. i was devastated that we could not afford the dollar but i was aggravated that she was giving me that book. but i couldn't put it down. all this information and the next day she asked me about it. before i graduated from school that year, i won the award for reading most library books. >> wow.

>> that opened up the world for me. that made me realize that i have -- that i was empowered. wow. i am so grateful to both of you for what you are doing and for sending that message out. that you are empowered to undertake your responsibilities as a citizen. i want to thank you both, members of the league of women voters solano county. alice freed and rami muth. >> thank you for that amazing conversation. that will do it for me. thank you for watching "velshi" on msnbc. "velshi" errors every sunday morning. stay right where you are. the katie thing show starts right now.