tv Alex Witt Reports MSNBC May 25, 2024 10:00am-11:00am PDT
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calling on a judge to stop donald trump from continuing to claim fbi agents were involved in a plot to assassinate him during his search of his mar-a-lago home during the classified documents investigation. trump made a suggestion in a campaign fundraising email and has been repeated by conservative media outlets. late friday, smith filed a notion in judge eileen tenants court saying, "those statements create a grossly misleading impression about the intentions and conduct of federal law enforcement agents -- falsely suggesting that they were complicit in a plot to assassinate him --" smith added that the false statements expose sba agents, some of whom will be witnesses at the trial, to threats of harassment. we have reporters covering all of the developments for you. we will begin with julie sirkin on capitol hill. julie, welcome. the prosecutor's request is different from a gag order, but what exactly are they asking of
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the judge? >> reporter: this is a first, let me just say, alex, in this case concerning the classified documents that special counsel jack smith is asking the judge overseeing this case, eileen cannon, to actually impose a limit on what the former president is allowed to say when it comes to making statements in the public against law enforcement officials. the reason the prosecutor said -- i want to read a part of this for you, "trumps repeated mischaracterization has endangered law enforcement officers involved in the investigation and threatened the integrity of these proceedings. of course, this all goes back to that search conducted at trump's mar-a-lago resort two years ago, august of 2022. this comes as the former president, as you mentioned that the top, said falsely that president biden somehow conspired to assassinate trump, when the fbi conducted the search of his home, after which we have found out, of course, from the fbi, from attorney general merrick garland that
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what the fbi did that day was a standard practice, and they actually limited the use of deadly force, including officers coming to mar-a-lago in plainclothes, they made sure that the former president was not even in the same state when they conducted this search, and the fbi and merrick garland had said that the same was done during the search of bidens wilmington, delaware home in a similar classified documents case there. so, this is totally president, according to the fbi. it did not stop trump from speaking out, and making those false claims, which now special counsel jack smith says is damaging. we will see how the president's legal team response, too. >> we will definitely do that and discuss a bit further right now. thank you, julie, for that report. we are going to katie phang, attorney and host a of "the katie phang show" on msnbc that hosted -- ended about three minutes ago. thank you for sticking around for this. what does jack smith want judge cannon to do here?
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>> as you heard from julie, it is a modification of your bond condition. any criminal defendant who is arrested and being prosecuted has bond conditions, and they vary. not only do you have to post a monetary bail amount, but when you are out on public release and are not in custody pending a trial, you have to behave. what you hear from special counsel jack smith is, we are not trying to limit donald trump's amendment right to free speech. but, there is the rub. when you are a criminal defendant, that cannot run counter to justice, and the fair and proper administration of justice, and jack smith is calling out trump for his post and the ability -- the fact that he has the ability to expand and amplify potential hatred, violence, and some really wrongdoing against members of law enforcement because donald trump knows that he is lying. he is lying about what happens and the conditions for that search warrant that was executed on mar-a-lago back in august of 2022. >> so, this motion, it says that trump's words -- you are saying this -- they put a
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target, essentially, on the backs of fbi agents and it points the judge to an armed attack on an fbi office in ohio after the mar-a-lago search. katie, some of the agents who took part in this search may be witnesses against trump. does that give compelling reason to judge cannon to take urgent action on this? >> welcome alex, we have to balance our expectations against the fact that this is judge aileen cannon who so far hasn't necessarily shown a measure of respect for the concerns that have been raised by jack smith. remember, there has been litigation along the way, battles in the courtroom over what can be publicly disclosed. aileen cannon taking a very casual approach to something that not only involves classified documents, national secrets for the united states, but also when it comes to the people, the employees, the personnel, the law enforcement that have been involved in this case anna aileen cannon has taken the approach of erring on the side of more is better when jack smith said, no, no, no, less actually is better.
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so, in this instance when you have a discovery process were the names of law enforcement agents that participated in the execution of that search warrant that has been a part of the process to be able to bring this prosecution, there is a valid concern on jack smith's part that the more information that is out there that is publicly accessible, the more of a risk it poses for the literal safety and the lives of those law enforcement. >> katie, i am going to ask you do just a little bit more ot and stay with me, so you have much more to get to. in a few minutes more, we are going to talk about tuesday's closing arguments in donald trump's hush money trial. who is feeling the most pressure, defense or prosecution? that is coming up. new today, president biden delivering a strong message on consequential world affairs and challenges to democracy in his west point commencement address just a short time ago. let's go to nbc's allie roffman, joining us from washington, d.c. what did we hear from the president today? >> reporter: yeah, so, we know the president was speaking about the role of the u.s. military and u.s. service members. it is something very significant and personal for him, and that was evident
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during this commencement speech he delivered to more than 1000 graduates, army cadets at west point -- at the west point military academy earlier this morning. the president, during this speech, talked about how critical of a role the u.s. military plays as several wars rage on across the world. he talked about the role that u.s. service members are playing in ukraine, he says that they are working around the clock to help ukraine, but he reiterated his promise that no american boots would be placed on the ground in that country. the president also talking about tensions in the middle east as far as the israel-hamas war. he talked about how much of a role the u.s. military played in helping israel intercept iranian missiles a few weeks ago, also talking about the role that the u.s. military is playing in helping get more humanitarian aid to palestinians in gaza, and he also talked about the role the u.s. military is playing in the
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indo pacific region to fight chinese aggression there. the president also at one point offering this life and career advice to these graduates. listen here. >> in this time, some of you will serve in powerful roles in headquarters, pentagon, even the white house. these challenges, that generations of soldiers couldn't imagine. when that happens, hold fast to your values, that you learned here at west point. duty, honor your country, hold fast in your honor code, and for the status quo, we will not lie, steal, or cheat, or do tolerate any of those who do. and above all, hold fast to your oath. >> reporter: the president also taking time to talk about the sacrifices made by the military and gold star families. of course, he mentioned his late son, beau, who died of brain cancer after being
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deployed to iraq. he talked about how he believes that the connection to his death was from those burn pits that he was exposed to while serving overseas. and of course, that led to that bipartisan legislation he signed two years ago to be able to get veterans better healthcare access, veterans who were also exposed to those burn pits. and alex, the president is preparing to mark the ninth anniversary of his late sons, bo, death this thursday, alec -- alex. >> allie roffman, thank you so much. holiday travel rush this weekend is in full swing, millions of people are hitting the roads or catching a flight. aaa says it will be the busiest memorial day weekend -- get this -- in two decades. but, severe weather in parts of the u.s. could put a damper on some holiday plans. we will bring in nbc news correspondence maura barrett, joining us from chicago. looks pretty nice there, though. are people getting lucky with the weather there this weekend? >> reporter: we are. alex, i don't think i could ask for a better office, quite frankly today.
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we, in the office and the region, and others on the west coast soaking up sunshine this weekend, but across the country, others are prepping for more severe weather. all of this as millions are still traveling for the holiday weekend. the sun rising this morning, ready for some summer fun. >> everybody is fine, everybody wants to be outside. >> chicago is the place to be, can't go anywhere else. all summer long we will be at the beach. >> reporter: an easy commute to the lakefront beach for chicago city dwellers, but it is a different picture across the country. aaa predicts 44 million people will hit the road or catch a flight for the holiday weekend, making it the busiest in the last 20 years. a vast majority of them, planning to drive. >> i am used to traffic, but i am just hoping it doesn't get horrible. >> reporter: the national average price of gas sits at $3.60 per gallon, down six cents since last month, but still more since a year ago. >> it definitely makes traveling more expensive.
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>> reporter: the most popular spots for rental car reservations, las vegas, denver, boston, atlanta, and orlando, tourism hotspots prepping for the crowds. >> we do have extra police on hand to help negotiate that traffic, and make sure folks are moving along. >> reporter: and airports just as crowded as the roads, breaking records as the tsa says five of its top 20 busiest days ever have been this month, expecting to screen 18 million people around the holiday. >> i would rather pay the extra money and fly. i hate traffic. >> reporter: severe weather, though, threatening weekend travel. more than 8000 flights delayed on friday. >> that is a big, old tornado. >> reporter: 17 million at risk today. they say more tornado warnings and possibly damaging hail. but, for those getting lucky with sunshine, officials warning beachgoers, great white sharks already spotted off of cape cod, a sure sign of the start of summer. so, alex, it is a warm and sunny day here and that lake water is still a frigid 50
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degrees. we did see some brave souls jump in this morning, but if you are looking to hit the roads, get to a warmer beach, warmer water, aaa says the worst time to drive is between 2:00 and 5:00 p.m., prime time afternoon hours. i would never advise anyone to stop watching your show, alex, but we are coming up to that window so you will either have to hit the road soon or wait until 6:00 p.m. alex? >> until you said 50 degrees in the water i was like, she might have a bathing suit underneath that dress, but i am betting not. got it. >> reporter: not for me today. >> not today! thank you so much. it is hard to believe, everyone, but by the end of the week, we could have a verdict in the donald trump trial. next, we will have a take away from the jurors and how they reacted during bombshell moments, plus harsh words from trump's former white house counsel about the judge in the case. we are back in 90 seconds. seco. the totally torqued-out crossover.
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and jury instructions, jury deliberations, and then possibly a verdict. joining me in studio, hugo lowell, investigations reporter with the guardian, he has been in court for the new york trial, and katie phang is back with me just a little bit longer on a saturday holiday weekend, my friend. i appreciate you sticking around. hugo, last chance for each side to make the closing arguments. give me a sense of who is under more pressure, prosecution or defense? >> i think defense -- and here, katie and i have been talking about this for days -- the last witness the defense put on was bob castillo and he is not someone who left a good impression on the jury's mind. he was combative, if you remember, he was bickering with the judge, the judge had to admonish him, although that was out of earshot of the jury, it was a very combative time and not only that, but he got impeached by susan hoff and, the prosecutor, over his emails that he sent -- these are the emails that said, this guy had to come off of the team, and it just made castillo -- despite
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the evidence he gave in favor of trump -- it just made him look like a terrible guy, and if that is the last idea the jury is taking away -- >> and their defense witness. >> and their defense witness. the last image the jury has been sitting on for seven days is bob castillo and i think the defense now has to overcome that deficit. >> katie, so, it comes down to -- here we go -- recording reimbursements for the stormy daniels payment as legal expenses instead of campaign contributions, michael cohen and former trump ceo, alan weisel, they went to prison. hope hicks said this about the stormy daniels payment, "i think mr. trump's opinion was that it would have been bad to have that story come out before the election." adding it up, does all of this mean the prosecution has already proved trump's alleged intent to steal another crime?
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>> and you don't get -- unless you are lucky -- in prosecution, direct evidence of a criminal defendant's involvement in a criminal conspiracy. you never got trump "saying," although -- i would say this, alex, when the defense failed to go after that trump tower meeting in allen's office, then they went down the hallway to trump's office with that essential consultants llc account statement, they showed it to donald trump and he blessed it. he said it was okay. and then, there was no defense argument at all or questioning about that white house oval office meeting between cohen and donald trump when donald trump asked him, do you need the money? and cohen said, yeah, it is taken care of. there is no cross about that, nothing from the defense to suggest there was something innocent about it, and that is your direct evidence from trump in that conspiracy, but you also have a lot of circumstantial evidence you just went through. so, when the prosecution gets
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up in its closing -- and you noted the prosecution goes last after the defense, because that is a great place to be, you can pivot in your prosecution closing. when you listen to what the defense had to say -- but most importantly, the prosecution doesn't need michael cohen to seal the deal, they don't need stormy daniels to seal the deal, they have all of that evidentiary value in the documents and the audio of donald trump. there is so much there, alex, that they can look to, but you could use michael cohen because he was credible, and you could use stormy daniels, as well. there is an embarrassment of riches for the prosecution, it is just up to them to leave it together in a way that is concise and makes sense for the jury. >> and there is a lot to weave there, 20 witnesses for them, so there is a lot. so, trump, he was active on social media last night, here is one of his claims. "a legal expense to a lawyer was called, by a bookkeeper, a legal expense to a lawyer!" i mean, is this going to be part of their closing argument? >> i think, almost certainly. this is something that todd
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blanche, trump's lead defense lawyer has touched on over the course of this trial, that this was a bookkeeping thing, that that is just how the trump organization functioned, and they have had witnesses say, look, there was a drop-down menu in the trump work software, and one of the drop downs was legal expenses. we had a legal expense, that is what we would record it as. and, yes, the evidence has also shown that trump took all of the falsifications, in essence, the checks, and the backing, and the invoices, and concocted a scheme to pay back michael michael cohen in a less than aboveboard situation. >> so, it is just not as simple as the drop down? they are going to have more to answer for? >> right. and even if that is the case, that is fine, but then why are you going through this entire scheme of -- the argument of falsification is that it was intended to commit a second crime, right? you have all of that evidence of there being a lot of hush- hush going on, cohen pretending
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this is per our retainer agreement, that is what he wrote in the invoices. when you put that together, the circumstantial evidence suggests trump was paying back michael cohen in such a way as to conceal a second crime. and very important, we saw in the arguments last week that the judge was basically saying, for jury instructions, i will be leaning toward saying that the jury does not have to agree on what the second crime is. there are three theories of the case. not all trump jurors have to agree on each theory, they just have to think that one of those three theories occurred and that is enough to convict him. >> so, katie, they have to agree that something happened? they don't have to agree on exactly what? is that what it is? >> it is the unlawful means part of the statute, the falsification of business records with the intent to commit or conceal another crime
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through unlawful means, that could be the opening of the essential consultants llc account, it could be the falsification of the ledger entries. it could be a myriad of things. but no matter what the underlying conspiracy has been proven. alex, i think what you and hugo touched on is really important, the timing of it is really important. the account statement says that the $130,000 wire is clearly not for legal services, so why are we reimbursing michael cohen $420,000 unless it was a scheme to defraud as well as conceal what your intentions were. what were you trying to do in terms of the other crime? well, that is a state election law where you are not allowed to conspire with others to influence the outcome, to corruptly influence the advantages for a political candidate. and so, it is very clean, it is very neat, and if you put it together in a way where people can digest it and you don't spend too much time in closing -- that is an important thing, the judge has given both sides all day on tuesday. i would submit. you don't need all day, get up and get out!
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this jury has been gone for seven days, they are ready to make a decision. i understand it has been six weeks of testimony, but that doesn't mean you need to spend hours trying to weave it together. >> what is your read on the jurors and which way they may be leaning? i mean, given the fact you have been in court, have you detected that? >> i think it is very agree to -- difficult to read a generally. there are two jurors that i think as a consensus, have fixated on juror one and juror seven, they have been sitting at the end of the jury box, in the seats closest to the audience. at various points, they have seemed skeptical of the prosecution's arguments, but they have also been attentive and making notes when michael cohen was testifying on direct notes, making notes when stormy daniels was testifying on direct, and also when the prosecution was putting forward this case, and they seemed relatively skeptical of the defense when bob costello was on, which was interesting. >> as you were saying. >> right. so, i think this is what it is going to come down to. we have talked since the
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beginning if there is one juror who holds out and says, i don't think trump is guilty as we go to a mistrial, i don't think we are at that point now. i think costello's testimony was so unhelpful to team trump in the main, that after he came off the stand, what i previously thought maybe there were one or two holdouts, i actually wonder if they would just convict him on all counts. >> interesting. we talked, katie, about jack smith's filing to judge cannon on trump's fbi claims. on wednesday, the judge heard even more pretrial motions without making any hearings or setting a new trial date, and here is what trump's former white house counsel thought of that. here is that. >> most federal judges would have long ago ruled on all the pending motions and frankly, this is a case that should have started trial yesterday, or two days ago, when the original trial date was set. this case could have easily gone to trial, only her incompetence and perceived bias has prevented that. >> are these fair criticisms, katie? i mean, is this just a super
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comp located case? or, is it both? >> it is the most straightforward out of all the cases and the reason i am laughing is ty cobb is -- it is amazing what these lawyers do when they are not in the white house or under the employ of trump, it is like they suddenly come to jesus and they realize what the law is or should be, so that is why i am laughing, but ty cobb is right. this case was supposed to go to trial on may 20th. i don't know why we are not talking about jury selection in the classified documents case, it is one of the most straightforward cases of all of them, should have gone to trial before the federal cases, and now alas, we are talking about pretrial motions to be dismissed, that should have also been decided on the merits of the papers themselves. this has become a circus, it is the cannon circus in fort pierce. we have more hearings coming up in june, alex, evidentiary hearings to compel -- that doesn't happen in federal court! these are things that don't happen, and hugo last two, because he and i go to fort
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pierce and we are like, why are we here? so, it is frustrating, but you know what? it will go to trial. i believe in the system, it will go to trial. >> it is just a matter of when. okay, gotcha. hugo, katie, thank you so much. you can always watch "the katie phang show" saturdays at noon eastern, right before this show on msnbc. pictures coming back to haunt a supreme court justice and a new report about what the wife of the justice told the washington post. back in 2021. ck in 2021. i thought i was sleeping ok... but i was waking up so tired. then i tried new zzzquil sleep nasal strips. their four—point lift design opens my nose for maximum air flow. so, i breathe better. and we both sleep better. and stay married.
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a new battle on capitol hill over judicial f ethics after now two controversial flags linked to the stop this deal movement were reported to be hanging out side of justice samuel alito's homes. the democrats on the congressional committee are requesting a meeting with chief justice john roberts, demanding alito recuse himself from cases related to the january 6th attack, but republicans and democrats are not seeing eye to eye on the gravity of the situation. >> this is just terrible, terrible to see these politically motivated threats against the supreme court. >> i just think democrats are determined to harass members of the supreme court. >> this sense of hypocrisy here is so high. far from harassing justice alito, we are pointing out these political statements that clearly indicate bias. >> well, justice alito disputes
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the claims of bias, saying his wife hung up the upside down flag in response to a neighborhood dispute. in a new report from the washington post today, she said she told reporters the same thing when they asked her about it in 2021. joining me now, lawrence hurley, supreme court reporter for nbc news. lawrence, welcome. tell me why these flags are so politically fraught, and how justice alito and his wife are responding? >> clearly, there is a lot of scrutiny on the court, the conservative majority, the overturning of roe v wade, so on, so forth. so, there is a lot of pressure on the left to bring scrutiny on the court, especially the conservative justices. we have seen that with justice thomas, now we are seeing it with justice alito. but, you know, the democrats on the senate judiciary committee, as you mentioned, they may want to put pressure on justice alito, for example, to step aside from the january 6th case that the court has, or step aside from the trump
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election interference case that they have. but, there is actually not a whole lot they can do about it. i mean, obviously, the republicans oppose this, and also the supreme court ethics guidelines leave it in the hands of the justices to decide for themselves whether to step aside from a case. and of course, from justice alito perspective, he said it was his wife who put the flag up anyway, so, you know, the wives or spouses of supreme court justices are allowed to have their own political opinions and express them. so, if he sticks to that explanation, it is going to be difficult for people to sort of encourage him to take that extra step to actually step aside from these cases, which is what people really want here. >> senators dick durban sent that letter to the chief justice to discuss alito's involvement in future january 6th cases, but how many -- how much is wake of members of congress have over justice roberts handling this situation, given all that is out there about this? this is not really a private situation. this is really a run across the media, right? so, how much interest/sway
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could this have, and what about alito? could he recuse himself at this point? >> i would say, probably not a whole lot of sway. of course, the chief justice is the head of this branch of government, congress can obviously try to influence things, but the republicans are saying democrats are just trying to push their own political agenda here and there is nothing -- as i mentioned earlier -- there is not much that congress can do to enforce these ethics guidelines that the court has. so, it is kind of up to justice alito. and of course, going back to the clarence thomas stories about his wife, ginny thomas' involvement in efforts to overturn the election in 2020, he hasn't recused. you could say that flying a flag upside down is, you know, perhaps less major of a role than what she was doing. >> let's look further into justice alito, because you have reported on his questions in
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recent cases surrounding guns, january 6th, as well as donald trump, which do not seem to align with his reputation of being the most tough on crime justice. historically, he has voted in favor of criminal defendants only 20% of the time, but some things changed. what is different about his approach to these recent cases? >> i think, as i reported in that story, one law professor called justice alito perhaps the most maga justice on the court, which if that is a correct assessment, is quite ironic considering that president trump had three appointees of his own on the court, but it is actually justice alito and clarence thomas, neither of whom he appointed, that seem to be most sympathetic to some of the arguments he makes, or perhaps those households. but, i think it is an interesting change. with his recent arguments, he has said things that seemed
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quite sympathetic to both the january 6th defendants, and donald trump in his election case, and also to gun owners potentially being prosecuted. it does suggest a mind-set that, you know, is perhaps reflective of the kind of bubble that he lives in, just the same as everyone else has a bubble that they live in, and his seems to be more to the kind of fox news side of things, rather than the msnbc side of things. >> with a conservative majority, as you know, on the court, justice a soda cellular spoke about one of the challenges of being one of the few liberals. here's what she said at harvard. >> there are days that i come to my office after an announcement of a case, and close my door, and cry. there have been those days. and there are likely to be more.
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>> that last part there, can you make any inferences about her comments about future decisions coming in the final weeks of this trial? >> of course, justice sotomayor is one of the three liberal justices on a 6-3 conservative court. at this point, she is used to being on the wrong side of big decisions. i remember, i was at an event a couple of years ago where she said pretty much the same thing, and that was just before the court overturned roe v wade. so, obviously, she knows the court has a lot of big cases coming up in the next month or so. she knows exactly how that is going to come up at this point. so, it is not just the trump immunity case that we know about, it is two abortion cases, two gun cases, the january 6th case that we just talked about. so, there is a lot to come out, and i think it is tough to talk about -- to know if she is talking more generally there or about specific cases. >> lawrence hurley, thank you so much. come see us again soon. help is on the way to a
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a pass at the breaking news about the war in gaza, israel pressing on with airstrikes there a day after that ruling by a top u.n. court ordering israel to halt its assault on rafah. the international court of justice stopping short, though, of ordering a cease-fire. there is, however, no enforcement mechanism for the
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court's orders. also today, egypt agreed to open a key border crossing to allow more aid into rafah. the humanitarian crisis in the enclave by learning dramatically since the offensive in rafah began two weeks ago. megan fitzgerald is joining us from london with the very latest. welcome to you. what impact could this have on israel's conduct with the war? >> reporter: well, right now, it does not appear to have any impact at all. so far, we haven't seen anything to suggest that israel will comply with the order to end this offensive. in fact, our team on the ground in gaza has seen airstrikes continue since that order came down. important to note here that we are talking about a three- pronged order here. the court told israel to immediately stop its offensive in rafah, to open the rafah crossing between egypt and gaza to allow in humanitarian aid, and order israel to provide access to the enclave so investigators can determine if
quote
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israel is committing genocide in gaza. i want you to listen to part of what the icj president had to say yesterday. take a listen. >> the court is not convinced that there are sufficient efforts and related measures that israel affirms to have undertaken to enhance the security of civilians in the gaza strip and in particular, those recently displaced from rafah, are sufficient to alleviate immense risk, which the palestinian population is exposed, as a result of the military offensive in rafah. >> reporter: but, here's the thing. while the court order is significant and binding, the icj has no way of enforcing it. israel's government did release a statement friday saying they embarked on a defensive and just war following the attacks on october 7th and is acting to reduce as much harm as possible to civilians.
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but, look, there is no doubt that this ruling is a blow to israel's international standing. it ends a week where three european countries announced they will recognize a palestinian state, and prosecutors for the world's top war crimes court calls for arrest warrants for bothand hamas leaders, all of this as israeli officials tell cbs news that director bill burns is meeting with israel's spy agency and the prime minister of qatar today in paris, the goal here is to revive those negotiations for a truce and to secure the release of the remaining hostages. >> certainly, good luck to him, but it seems like an uphill battle bill burns has. thank you so much, megan fitzgerald. you figure it will happen sooner or later, but it was still a surprise when it was announced this week. unced this. , the joy of movement. i don't know how long it's been there. long enough to produce eggs, it seems. it would appear that it has begun moving towards us!
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new today, the white house bracing for north korea to make a big military move in the weeks leading up to the presidential election. the biden administration has become increasingly concerned with the intensifying alliance between king john kuhn and russian president vladimir putin could expand russia's nuclear capabilities and increased tensions in the asian pacific region. let's bring in nbc political analyst, chief analyst for the new york times, and author of "divider: trump in the white house from 2017 to 2021." we have seen officials who expect -- expect -- this military action to happen in october. what could that move be, and how would it affect the
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election? >> you have to sit there and think through, what are the possible october surprises we could have? actors like russia and north korea have to be at the top of your list, you have to look at what they might try to do to stir things up. you had, for instance, some sort of a provocation by north korea, a missile launch, maybe even a nuclear test, for instance, or you had something by russia that changed the battlefield space in ukraine or some way or another, obviously creates a crisis and foments the idea that this has been a crisis of the presidency. that is something you hear a lot from trump and his allies, that this has been a crisis presidency, as of the war in gaza was biden's fault, or the russian invasion of ukraine was by default, so that is the possibility here. how it affects the election, we don't know. truth is, this is not a one day election anymore, it is a six-
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week election, people start voting early in mid-september in some states, some places. so, you will have a lot of votes cast by the time something could already happen in october, so it changes the whole dynamic. it used to be, you had something happen in late october before you went to vote in early november, it could have a late effect. now because things are spread out so much, we just don't know how that might affect things. >> sticking with the election here as donald trump's hush money trial is wrapping up, the biden campaign is planning to ramp up attacks on trump especially if he is convicted. what is the strategy behind this timing, and why start now? >> well, one thing they wanted to avoid doing is playing into trump's argument that these prosecutions of him are all political, that they are all somehow ordered by president biden. the theory is that if president biden were to talk about it, it would encourage this idea that he is the one masterminding all of this. of course, that is not the case in this new york trial, it was brought by a local prosecutor,
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alvin bragg, who doesn't respond to the federal government, she has nothing to do with the biden administration other than the fact that he is a democrat, that is enough for the trump people to say that he is acting for biden. any comment by the president up until now they felt could encourage that conspiracy theory. once he is convicted, i think they look at it a little bit different. at that point, they need to make the case they are running not against the candidate you might not agree with, but they are running against a convicted felon and if they don't bring that to the floor, they don't use that as part of their argument, they are not going to have any excuse in the fall if they were to fall short and i think they decided that that is worth bringing up. you have already seen the president inch toward it by making fun of trump saying, i know your wednesdays are free, or making fun of him falling asleep in court. they try to avoid commenting on the case itself, once it has been adjudicated, it is a different ball game. >> yeah, so, on x, you reposted the new morning consult bloomberg poll that showed biden trailing trump in several swing states, but access reports, peter, that democratic senators aren't buying it. why are they skeptical, and is their rationale for being skeptical valid? >> well, polling, obviously, is a fraught industry right now, in part because of the changes in our society and whether we can accurately measure public
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sentiment. so, it is fair to have a certain degree of skepticism for polls, that is fair. but, what we hear, of course, is people discounting the polls they don't like and looking at the poles they do like, showing the things they want. the biden campaign didn't complain when they had a poll showing him tied with trump a few weeks back, they did complain when they had a poll showing him losing in a number of the swing states. so, your attitude to a poll often depends on how much you like the results. the truth is, the only poll that matters will be in the fall. that is a clichi, but it is true. polls right now aren't necessarily predictive, but they are a snapshot of where we are right now, and even though an individual poll might not be correct, margin of error, several points each way, whatever it could be, but the trend is accurate in some sense and the larger trend is that biden, at very best, is tied with trump.
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and in fact, behind him, in many polls in the swing states where he has to win, so that shows you where he is at in this general election campaign. >> yeah, so, donald trump got a significant -- and to many, a surprising -- new supported this week, his former and strongest primary challenger, nikki haley. she is the latest now to be a trump critic formerly, then shift back to his campaign. in your new article you write, "the parade of ring kissers testifies to the power over the party that mr. trump has achieved despite multiple criminal indictments, civil judgments, and other scandals." what you think is behind this, peter? >> yeah, nikki haley, you are right, is the most recent one. she said she didn't feel the need to kiss the ring a few months ago, now she is out there kissing it. you see this time and time again. mitch mcconnell, bill barr, all of these figures who were very, very critical of former president trump, said he was everything from delusional, to not saying, to unhinge, that was one of the phrases that nikki haley herself used. and yet, they are willing to give him the nuclear codes. what is behind it tells you about something about his control over this party. we have never seen anything
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like it. reagan didn't have this kind of command over the republican party, clinton didn't have it over the democratic party like this. he has such a command over the party that there is generally a fear of crossing him, a sense that they have to get behind him, otherwise they alienate his base, which is the vast majority of republican voters at this point, and we know how punitive he can be. he makes it very clear he punishes people who he considers to be disloyal. >> and also that base, former critics turning, they may want to tap into that based on the road, certainly. so, there is that aspect, as well. peter baker, thank you so much. something we haven't seen in almost two months is about to happen today, and later, why are we not here? this is hollywood beach, florida. 91 degrees there with a real feel temperature, though, of 97. the first great summer getaway of the year, that is ahead in our next hour. r next hour. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin.
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stories .3 missionaries including two americans have been killed by armed gangs in haiti. david and natalie lloyd were gunned down alongside an unnamed third member of their group. since the assassination of haiti's president three years ago, gangs have controlled the nation's capital. new legal action to report from uvalde, texas, as families gather for a vigil friday marking the second anniversary of the tragic robb elementary shooting. lawsuits filed against meta as well as the videogame maker of call of duty. the suit claims the team gunman was able to practice using an assault style rifle by playing the videogame and then became radicalized by social media. 19 children and two teachers were killed in that mass shooting. for the first time since the deadly bridge collapse, cruise ships can enter and leave the port of baltimore. a royal caribbean cruise ship will be first to leave the port today on a five day cruise to
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