that does it for me. thanks for watching. i'll see you back here tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. eastern for another live our of politics nation. the saturday show with jonathan capehart starts right now. now. supreme court justice, samuel alito is under mounting pressure for flying two flags linked to insurrectionist's. senate democrats want a meeting with chief justice roberts, and house members are demanding alito recuse himself related

to donald trump and january 6th. jasmine crockett joins me live on the site. trump in court. what to look for as the first trial of a former president l heads to the jury next week, and why special counsel jack smith is taking bold new action in trump's classified documents case. and reality check. you believe trump's rally in the bronx was about reaching out to black and latino voters? i don't. i am jonathan capehart. this is the saturday show. ♪ ♪ for decades, democrats have tried and failed to make the court a voting issue for its base. well maybe this election cycle they will succeed, because this week in washington we are seeing two very different visions for the american

justice system. president biden reached a major milestone in his mission to diversify the federal courts. the senate confirmed his 200 and 201st judicial nominees, adding two more women of color to the bench. biden has appointed more black and brown judges than any president in history. he thinks the senate in a statement saying "judges matter. these men and women have the power to uphold basic rights or to roll them back." that's why democrats are calling out some serious and urgent ethics concerns on the supreme court. according to the new york times, supreme court justice samuel alito decorated his homes with two flags like those carried during the january 6th insurrection. he blamed his wife for putting up the first, an upside down american flag and has yet to say anything about the second one. the reporting from the washington post reveals ann marimow intended it as a signal

of distress in response to a neighbor. dick durbin is now wanting to meet with cheese chief justice roberts, and alito is being asked to recuse himself from d cases including donald trump's immunity claim. many republican lawmakers meanwhile insist there's nothing to see here. la >> i just think democrats are determined to harass members of the supreme court. >> political from the standpoint of the left, i might be, but it's not political from my standpoint. >> we need to leave the supreme court alone, protect them from people who went into their neighborhoods and tried to do them harm. >> and alito's outdoor decor is not the only cause for alarm coming from the high court. the supreme court diminished the power of black voters in

south carolina by ruling in favor of racial gerrymandering in the palmetto state. alito wrote the majority opinion, but justice clarence thomas's concurrence was somehow even worse. by attacking the brown v board education system is suggesting the court overreached with its landmark 70-year-old ruling that ended segregation. it's a reminder of how much progress the supreme court's supreme conservative super majority could undo if donald ri trump gets back in the oval office. former obama white house senior adviser dan pfeiffer warns alito and thomas are likely to step down in a second trump administration. they can waive wait for another generation of maga jurists on the supreme court. >> that means he will have appointed five supreme court justices, all of whom will be around or below the age of 60 when he leaves office, that is

a court, a maga court majority that will rule for decades. >> in the words of biden himself, judges matter. and more than ever, so does the president who picks them. joining me now, democratic congressman, jasmine crockett of texas, member of the house oversight committee, congresswoman, welcome back to the saturday show. you signed the letter calling for justice alito to recuse himself after news broke of thes first flag. your reaction now that there's been a second flag. >> we are not going to play with this. we know who alito is. he tries to hide behind his wife, but we know who he is , he has nothing to say about the second incident. i had my little drama that happened, in oversight, unfortunately what wasn't covered is the task force was rolled out the same week and in that task force we have three major things that we are looking at, number one, term limits, no more than 18 years.

we are also looking at a expanding the court, because we know right now that we literally cannot trust these folk. and the last thing we are looking at is making sure there is some actual ethics reform, so we have three bills we are pushing forward with. we are trying to educate the rest of our colleagues on it, and we are hopefully trying to get some movement in the house. and we pray about the senate. >> so house minority leader hakeem jeffries said this week, the supreme court doesn't get its act under control congress should impose an ethics code. ld will that take a new congress, and the new congress with the democratic majority to get those three bills we are talking about through? >> absolutely. i don't think we have the courage on the other side oddly enough, if we still had one of our freedom caucus members, ken buck, he may have joined in, because he is a former prosecutor. so one of the issues that he had with dealing with the folk

in the house is that he did not feel like there was legal pathway to impeachment in the first place. he felt as if his colleagues were diminishing institution by playing games with trying to impeach the president, by going out and impeaching secretary mayorkas. the rest of them, some may respect the law, but they don't have the guts to stand up and do what's right. >> i have heard some people say justice alito should be impeached. with that go too far? wi >> i don't think it would. >> that wouldn't open pandora's box? >> the boxes already open, jonathan, they just don't have control the senate as well as control of the white house. but listen, i don't think we will have the filibuster if the republicans get a hold of the senate again. democrats hide behind so many

traditions, not laws, but traditions come even when we start talking about appointments to the courts. it's amazing the president has been able to do what he's done, but we have a ton of vacancies in the state of texas, and we can't get them because of blue slips, they are a tradition, not law, and basically what we see in the south where these terrible cases are coming from b is republican senators saying no, you can't have any appointments in our state. we will hold on until a republican is in, then they decide to send their crazy cases to the crazy judge in the south and take it up through the fifth circuit, then we know what happens when it gets to the supreme court. >> that gets to what i was going to ask you. the supreme court we are su talking about, and folks needing to worry about those se federal appointments, and you are alluding to this, in your home state of texas it was a trump appointed judge who sent abortion back to the courts in the mifepristone case. >> i don't know how, this

doesn't sound like he's that intelligent, or he pretended not to be intelligent, i'm not sure, but the basis, we are talking about a case where there was no standing, and for those at home who don't understand, standing is like first grade for lawyers. it's like this is the first thing you learn. you somehow have to be harmed before you can go holler at the court. so, we are talking about people that literally have nothing to do with mifepristone, and they are like you know what? i feel this. it should have been shut down immediately, but it did not end up happening. >> if you are not harmed by the case you cannot holler at the court, i love that. [ laughter ] that's just genius. can we go back and talk about the supreme court? i am just wondering, chief justice, i am sorry, the chief justice, john roberts, does he actually have control of this

court? >> i would argue there is no control anytime maga is in the room. that's just the bottom line. and while alito , and while thomas may not have come up through maga amy coney barrett, along with cavanaugh did. we know there is a lot of maga in the room, and alito and thomas came in and wanted to beat maga, but that's not where the republican party was at the time. so now you are looking at a court. roberts is using who we look at for the swing. this is bad. this is really, really bad. is and the fact amy coney barrett maiko with the mifepristone case, like you finally woke up and realized you were a woman, that your children may be affected, i'm not sure what woke her up and made her decide okay maybe i don't need to go this way, but we appreciate her if she does the right thing. >> i was going to say. expect the questioning made it

seem like she was on the right track, but we never know until it actually goes down. but in addition, republicans are really getting what they ask for, which is too much, because they are not really good at policy, right? that's with donald trump, they say what your policy on reproductive rights? he says i'll get back to you. how are you running to be the president of the united states, and you don't have an opinion? you do have an opinion, you just don't want to talk about it, because it's not popular. for those who cannot read the tea leaves, the rights you do have left in california and new york or whatever other states have decided, kansas, ohio, he's trying to say i'm going to those from you, too. pay attention to what he's not saying. >> those tea leaves are the size of maple leafs. let's put it that way. congresswoman crockett, thank you for joining us on the saturday show. senior writer for mark, now top

that. [ laughter ] let's talk about justice alito and his legal reasoning. would you, why is his argument so concerning? c >> it's credibly pernicious. what justice alito argues is that federal court should essentially never acknowledge when state legislatures engage in racial gerrymandering, when they target black voters and i c love the power of their vote because of their race. justice alito says we as judges should be more concerned about accusing state legislatures of racism in the first place. the real offense here is to say that a lawmaker of the republican party specifically might try to disenfranchise black voters. he says we owe this presumption of good faith, or the presumption of white racial innocence as i call it, to assume state legislatures are never engaging in state approved

gerrymandering. justice alito closed his eyes for what i think is pretty racist gerrymandering in south carolina. >> i get all that. i can you please explain justice thomas's concurrence? how does he justify attacking, where did the brown decision come from in relation to the south carolina jury mentoring case? >> justice thomas goes back anda says federal courts don't ever have the power to strike down redistricting maps. he says whether they are racist, partisan, mal apportioned, that federal courts simply lack the constitutional authority to step in and redraw those maps. that is true he says even when state legislatures are openly racist. when they say we are going to target black voters because of their race and diminish their power. justice thomas says too bad federal courts can't step in. he traces back tsfederal courts intervening in these disputes and says the root of the problem

was brown versus board of education, because in brown versus board this court starteds expending its ability to interfere with recessed laws, and brown v. board, the court went beyond its power to impose integration in public and it education, that it led us to start striking down these maps and got us to where we were, and we need to rewind back to the 1950s. i don't think it was a coincidence that this was anniversary of the brown v. board decision. >> case that was argued by thurgood marshall, the man he od replaced on the supreme court. [ laughter ] we don't have enough time for me to go on a tirade. i want to talk about justice sotomayor. she expressed frustration with

the court. let's watch. >> there are days frthat i have come to my office after an announcement of a case and un closed my door and cried. there have been those days. and, they are ugly to be more. >> i mean, that is a very telling statement from justice sotomayor. r. what does that reveal to you about that dynamic on the court? >> a whole lot. every day justice sotomayor gives a preview of what is to come and how bad it will be, and this year she is jumping up and down waving the red flag. g she is warning us we have a lot of really bad decisions to come , so awful that they disturb her to the point of tears, and we have more than a dozen major cases piling up on the supreme court docket. they have these blockbusters still to hand down, and i think justice sotomayor is saying brace yourself, this will be a disaster of epic proportions. >> joseph stern, thank you as

always for coming to the ys saturday show. coming up, closing arguments in donald trump office historic criminal trial in new york, set for tuesday. legal analyst joyce fans of msnbc joins me with what we should keep our eyes on. and what president biden's campaign has in store for trump once the manhattan trial ends. that and much more on the saturday show. saturday show. stomer demand... in real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon. their solution for us? a private 5g network. (ella) we now get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. our customers get what they want, when they want it. (jen) now we're even smarter and ready for what's next. (vo) achieve enterprise intelligence. it's your vision, it's your verizon. sup? -who are you? i'm your inner child. get in. listen, what you really need in life is some freakin' torque.

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we are now just a few days away from closing arguments in donald trump's criminal hush money election interference trial in new york. wrapping up what is likely to be the only case against him to reach a jury before the november election. trump's legal team will go first in presenting its closing argument to the jury. looking to a reasonable doubt injures' mines about the 34 felony counts against the former president. only a unanimous jury verdict

on a charge leads to conviction. all the defense needs is one doubting juror for a hung jury on each count, which would then trigger a mistrial. manhattan da alvin bragg's prosecuting team will follow, making its argument that trump falsified business records to cover up a hush money to adult film star stormy daniels ahead of the many 16 election. trump has denied all the charges and the alleged encounter with daniels. judge juan merchan will give the jury instructions on how to interpret the law and evidence as they go into deliberations. now, you would think if you were facing such a monumental week you would be a little chill, but we know trump has no chill. in the middle of the night last night, and this morning, he was sending out unhinged social media attacks against judge juan merchan and da alvin bragg, some of them with timestamps at 1:32 a.m.

joy vance, nbc msnbc legal analyst, thank you for joining me. what will the closing arguments entail? >> i think you've done a good job of setting out the parameters. when the prosecution closes it will be all over the burden of proof. they will have to explain to the jury and give them good arguments for why they have proven trump's guilt the only reasonable doubt. that's the important part, that very heavy burden. and as you say for a defense lawyer the strategy is always to inject that reasonable doubt into the government's evidence, so we will hear them focus likely on michael cohen and his credibility issues. but they will also make other arguments about why the prosecution's evidence doesn't stack up in the way it needs to for a conviction. >> the judge's instructions to

the jury ahead of their deliberations, this i am looking at. what goes into them, and why are they so important to how the jury considers its verdict in each case? >> right. it's the judge's job, as he told lawyers, he tells the jury the law they will use in evaluating the evidences, and you can understand why that is important. he is the one who will explain to jurors with the burden of proof means, and the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. new york law, and what it means for donald trump to have caused a record to have been made that's false. so the way judges do this in new york and other states is that there are pattern jury instructions that courts create across a period of time with instructions that have been affirmed over and over by courts of appeals, meaning they

are good statements of the law, and we will see the judge rely on those to the extent he can, but some of the charging here is novel. it's a rare case where the business records, falsification is charged with the campaign- finance violation, and the judge will craft unusual jury instructions. there will be a lot of negotiation that goes into that with the parties. >> joyce, correct me if i am wrong. do the prosecution and defense and the judge, do they hash out what those instructions will be? >> right. the parties usually will submit their proposed jury instructions . they have done that here. we aren't able to see them publicly. and the judge has told them in some cases how he is leaning, and in other cases he said he

may have to write his own instruction, that he doesn't think either has hit the nail cicely on the head. >> one more question. this time on the mar-a-lago classified documents case. special counsel jack smith asked judge cannon for a gag order on trump after falsely suggesting that fbi agents were "complicit in a plot to assassinate him" during the search of trump's home last august. trump is twisting around standard language used in fbi search warrants designed to limit the use of force. president biden's document search warrant had the same language. so, if judge cannon denies or delays ruling on this motion, what other options does special counsel smith have? can he appeal? >> right. it's a complicated situation, but it's important to say what trump is doing is simply lying. this is a standard policy recitation you see in all fbi informational planning.

it is important for agents on the policy of use of deadly force. so trump is making this up. what jack smith is doing is very clever, he's actually asking the judge to modify the conditions of trump's release on a tree pile bond pretrial bond pending trial. automatic right to appeal her decision to the 11th circuit. and so as you correctly pointed out jonathan, what if she doesn't rule? what if she lets it sit? at that point in time, smith would consider whether or not he might be able to take a petition, we talked about the in other contexts, it's a rarely used vehicle, where a lawyer can go to the court of appeals and say the trial judge isn't doing something they are supposed to do, and you should order them to do it. depending on how much rabble

rousing trump does, this is serious stuff. there was an attack after the mar-a-lago search warrant was executed on an fbi office in ohio. this sort of conduct inflames passion. if the judge doesn't move quickly the government may well go to the 11th circuit. >> it's dangerous, and that's something both the attorney general merrick garland pointed out, and also special counsel jack smith pointed out in his filing. joyce vance, thank you for coming back to the saturday show. donald trump tries to bond with black and latino voters with a rally in the south bronx. a closer look at the real meaning of his message, and who it's for, when my political pal joins me after the break.

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trump took the stage and one of the most democratic counties in the country and attempted to woo black and brown voters by slamming the black and brown immigrants who settled in the city. >> and these millions and millions of people that are coming into our country, the guest impact, and the biggest negative impact is against our black population, and our hispanic population, who are losing their jobs, losing their housing losing everything they can lose. >> and in another dubious attempt to enhance his credentials with voters of color trump invited rappers on stage to face charges in the sweeping gang case and one faces attempted murder charges. come on now. from a communications director for vice president kamala harris, and former speaker nancy pelosi, and susan the per

seo, and msnbc political analyst. okay, this first question is to both of you, here are what some counterdemonstrators at the rally had to say about trump's attempted to connect with voters in the bronx. watch this. >> nobody who is authentically from the bronx is willing to cosign hatred and xenophobia and misogyny, and all of the things this guy represents. >> let donald trump know that is not. expect are there any in the bronx that would consider voting for him? >> i don't know anyone. >> so okay, ashley, i'm going to come to you first on this. was trump really there to court black and brown voters, or was it about making white voters more comfortable for voting for him? >> one is to sow doubt about

democrats' commitment to the black and brown community, and we've seen overtime dating back to '16 when trump said what you have to lose? ever since that moment, he has ticked up in terms of percentage of black voters from 6% to a percent to tend to 8% to 10%. a structured for folks to stay home, a pox on both your houses. but, it's peeling off a small percentage and sewing that out, so it contributes to the apathy. >> susan, what do you think? >> a few things. let's remember this rally was done when donald trump were organized when trump thought he would be in court. so he needed something else to do while he was going to in theory be in court. he wasn't. but a few things should be noted about the bronx. first of

all it, last year was the first time in 40 years that a city councilmember was elected from the bronx who wasn't republican. going back to 2016 to 2020, donald trump did seven points better than in comparison. but, none of this is to say donald trump is going to win the bronx, win new york, or anything like that. let's take that off the table. it should show something, especially women in city council that people do look at their current government, and if they are not happy at the city, state, or federal level, they will try something else. and what we are seeing in the polling is that especially black men are looking away from joe biden. they are going to donald trump in small numbers, but when we

are talking about margins, in atlanta, or milwaukee, those votes matter. >> absolutely. i would just add one thing could republicans play a long game compared to democrats, and this is a longer game strategy. i've been arguing from the white house on the campaign that democrats should take the same strategy. we should be going to places like mississippi, a poor state in the union, always run right by republicans and say make the case, what you have to lose? you've been in the poorest state run by republicans, what do you have to lose considering alternative options? but we need to start playing the long game as a publicans do. >> long game, not just presidential. right. just look at georgia. susan, no, sorry. [ laughter ] president biden's campaign revealed that it plans to adopt a more aggressive approach with donald trump after the manhattan trial ends.

how hard should the president and the campaign go once the trial is over? >> i think they are adopting an aggressive posture. he released two biting ads that paint donald trump as, for having a pension for racism, and painting him as someone committed to undermining the constitution on day one, serving as a dictator for someone who has twice tried to cheat the election and overturn the government. so i think they are taking an aggressive posture now. i think what they will do after the case is the question on the table is whether or not they characterize him as convicted or not convicted. that is the real question, but they are aggressively now targeting black and brown voters, as well as nikki haley voters, with messages about who donald trump is. >> if they can say convicted felon, it would be the truth. tonight, trump is planning to speak at the libertarian national convention.

in order to thwart rfk junior's campaign. is this a further indication that trump views rfk junior as a real threat? >> absolutely, but it was a smart campaign maneuver, even though he will probably be greeted with boos, if he can prevent rfk jr. from getting the independent line, depending on which demographics you are talking about, the important thing with the libertarian party is that it gives ballot access in nearly every state. i don't think they will hit 50 this year, but rfk junior is nowhere close to that. so i think trump went in there to get a, just not to give it to rfk junior.

>> we would be remiss if we did not point out the fact that today is the fourth anniversary of george floyd's murder at the hands of a white police officer in minneapolis. we are we when it comes to criminal justice reform? and do you think the george floyd justice and policing act will ever make it through congress? maybe not this congress, but if democrats retake the house in the next congress? will we have to wait that long? >> yeah, that was an incredible time in american history. not just in terms of the loss and murder of george floyd, but people were standing in solidarity about the value of black lives. i was running to medications for pelosi and was charged with the strategy around getting the bill passed. the fastest bill we have ever passed, 30 days, and what's talked about, the civil rights groups, many of the people

coming on your show talking about black lives, actually walked away from the bill. my point is if we don't take the bird in the hand we will, someone else will have to die in more dramatic fashion to get that level of momentum around the bill. tyre nichols died, something good has to come out of this, and the reality is nothing really good has come out of it. to biting's credit he has passed executive orders that outlawed show colds and other aspects of the george floyd bill, but executive orders are at the whim of the president. we need to codify it into law, and i think the problem is this is great vulnerability for the president. they have not pushed legislation at the federal level to push congress to pass this bill read so, i think it will continue to be a drag on him, but if it continues to contribute to this perception that democrats give us

lipservice and do not push legislation that benefits us. >> the biden-harris campaign has been firing on all cylinders going to black voters, and folks need to understand that vice president can pound the podium as much as they want, but if they don't have a house, and they don't have a senate willing to go along, nothing will get done. ashley, susan, thank you both very much for coming to the saturday show. a new book puts a price tag on white privilege. tracy mcmillan joins me next to explain. game on. i've been practicing. what the cello? you want me to lower the hoop? foul! what? you going to tell on me again? foul yah? foul bro! here take a free shot go ahead knock yourself out. your about to get served. seriously? get allstate, save money,

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wealth gap in the united states could research from the urban institute and federal reserve shows a difference of more than $1 million between black and white households, meaning the average wealth of white families is more than seven times that of black families. we don't often address where that white bonus comes from. a new book explores how being white helps build wealth over a lifetime down to the exact dollar. joining me now, investigative journalist tracy mcmillan, author of the new book, the white bonus, five families, and the cash value of racism in america. tracy, thank you for being here. you determined your own whiteness is worth $372,000. how did you come up with that figure? why did you decide to do that math? >> yeah well i wanted to understand what being white gets me. by comparison i'm not rich person. money my family was

able to give me because of policies that helped them build wealth because they were white or because of small discriminations that have opened up a door for me to build my own wealth. >> you write "racism is a direct payment and form of compounding interest." how has your quote unquote white bonus added up over generations? >> yeah, so both of my grandparents had houses with racial covenants which allowed them to build family wealth and put my parents through college which means my parents were able to catapult themselves into the middle class. those grandparents were able to pay for a nice wedding, pay for a down payment for house and cover those things that keep trickling down to someone like me. i have not gotten any massive check anywhere, but all that wealth meant that my parents then could help me go to college, even though i had to work when i was going to school i got help, and that help

opened a lot of doors. >> you also calculated the white bonus for four other families across the united states. what did you learn about whiteness across different socioeconomic classes? >> it's valuable in every class, and while i think wealthy americans wealthy white americans get the largest amount of money for folks in the middle class the white advantage is the most powerful, it leads to social mobility, someone will give you a job or a second chance if you run into a legal problem, then if you were not white. that means it's much more powerful, because it keeps letting you build wealth. >> and allows you to jump classes also. ignoring the white bonus helps make it possible. how do you hope your book changes the conversation about racism? >> i hope we can be honest about what this country has done. in the 20th century we made

massive investments in white communities and families, that created the kind of stability a lot of white families still enjoy, and we ought to be doing that for everybody. >> tracie mcmillan, thank you for being here. the book is called "the white bonus. enrollment at hbcus nationwide, and be sue correspondent tremaine lee on how let's get the rest of these plants in. organic soil from miracle-gro

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it's been more than 30 years since the groundbreaking show, a different world, went off the air. but it's impact can still be seen today. the stars of the iconic series are turning historically black colleges and universities talking to a younger generation that's experiencing problems similar to ones tackled in the '80s and '90s. trymaine lee got their take on challenges they still face today. >> reporter: it was 1987 when a different world introduced viewers to life on the campus of the fictional historically black hilton college. upper and- new flavor for prime time. tackling issues like violence, aids, war, and police

brutality, issuing in a generation of black collegiate pride. it's a different world indeed, with diversity initiatives ripped away, affirmative action, gone. lack history silenced and black leaders forced out. some of the shows, shapes, and values, are under attack. i recently spoke with the cast to talk about politics, racial representation, and the show's enduring legacy. >> it's been 30 years, does it feel like it? >> [ laughter ] >> i a preet the shaving appreciate the shaving, brother. >> it seems like the issues you're confronted with in the show are present today. does it feel like a show like yours is as relevant today as it was then? >> absolutely. >> the fact that generations

that were born in the same decade is when we shot it are still dealing, grouped by the episodes in the show is a testament to it. >> it's still grappling with the same issues. i mean that's the unfortunate reality. >> we don't lose sight that even if it is the same issues that have to be dealt with, that we are raising a generation that is prepared to deal with it. >> come on, glenn. >> you are doing this to her in the midst of what could be considered an attack on affirmative action, black history, and i wonder how you are connecting to a new generation of students who are engaging with so many competing forces. >> let them know, give them the permission to note they are empowered to have the conversation. just because someone tells you to stop talking doesn't mean you stop talking, or we won't make this information available

to you, you need to go and find it, you need to vote, you need to read. you need to vote. what's happening in the world today is an all-out assault on the truth of history, on the rights that we have fought and earned, people are trying to turn back the clock, so you've got to know who is who and if for no other reason, vote for the future you know you need to have to participate, especially in this country. >> reporter: trymaine lee, nbc news. expect trymaine lee, thank you very much for that report . more of the saturday show coming up on msnbc after the break. break. 's why at fisher investmes we start by getting to know each other. so i can learn about your family, lifestyle, goals and needs, allowing us to tailor your portfolio. (wife) what about commission-based products? (fisher investments) we don't sell those. we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in your best interest. (husband) so how do your management fees work? (fisher investments) we have a transparent fee, structured so we do better when you do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different.

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welcome to our special new york versus donald trump. i am ari melber and we are going to get into this criminal trial. defendant trump reeling in the first week of testimony in new york. we are covering that into nights hour. we will have expert from law to assorted tabloids. we have experts on that, believe it or not. we also have a special report on a separate indictment against trump lawyer boris epshteyn who first admitted his role on the beat. you will hear all of that tonight. this weakens with a remarkable contrast from d.c. to new york. let me tell you exactly what i mean. in washington you may know the