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tv   The Beat With Ari Melber  MSNBC  May 25, 2024 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT

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i am signing off from this special hour. keep your right here on msnbc. welcome to our new special. new york versus donnell. we will bring you this brand- new break down of the third
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week of the historic and first- ever criminal trial of former president trump. this was a tough week. dramatic testimony from the woman at the center of the hush money plots. she has become the most famous through her encounter with donald trump. there was testimony and key days of testimony from witnesses who were in donald trump's orbit that could cooperate some of the financials for the jury. we have more on that. prosecutors have been laying out the pieces of this scheme to influence the 2016 election. we can tell you that as we recount why it was a tough week for trump, according to the public remarks here, working off the public evidence, we are at the end of it. we have two witnesses left according to the das team. michael cohen, will begin monday. one other witness and they will
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be ready to rest as soon as the coming week. michael cohen is central to the das case and has testified under oath that donald trump was in on everything. >> he knew about everything. everything had to go through mr. trump. >> that is what michael cohen sounded like last time under oath. a lot of punishment if you are a cop perjuring yourself to congress. we expect to hear a similar line when he takes the stand on monday. the prosecutors say they will rest their case by the end of the week. it could change but it's a confident line. if there is not some other issue with the judge or something beyond their control, they expect to have this thing done by thursday. there are steps after that, the defense gets to respond and the jury gets to deliberate with the closing arguments. whether or not they can make the case, they believe by thursday they would have
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legally set out every element of the two crimes that they say donald trump committed. this week started with a bang. donald trump's team clashed with the judge while he was violating the gag order. as it goes forward, the da has a few days left, the judge had to tell him that he could face a jail sentence. prosecutors are making good on what they said they would do. follow the money, show the receipts. that is important and we will get into this with the experts as part of this special that the witnesses matter because they bring everything to light. they don't do much without receipts. the da has damning once. the checks you see, the signature from the defendant. the other paperwork that shows this was not just a one-off, bow -- but a whole plot run through the trump organization and
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donald trump's personal bank account. they have the checks that he wrote to michael cohen. prosecutors called stormy daniels to the stand where she testified and told the jury why she understood donald trump one her silence at that time. >> stormy daniels became a household name to shake power. >> everybody wants to hear what stormy daniels will say. >> stormy daniels getting the most attention. >> riveting bombshell. sometimes achy testimony. >> you wanted money. that phrase was repeated multiple times. >> it is his motivation to shame this woman and it's not working. >> she was not going to let her story be mischaracterized. >> daniels, testified over two days. her testimony was quite detailed. at times it was graphic.
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as an observation in a good sound like a characterization or an opinion. when i say it was detailed and graphic, the judge at times had to patrol it. some of the details went beyond what the judge thought was necessary for the evidence to support the das case. this is not like an interview where you can jump around on different topics. the topics are regulated by the judge. within what she did say, she testified that donald trump did not consider about it going public. that bolsters the das case that the only issue was the mandate. now some generalized hush money. daniels faced aggressive questioning from donald trump's attorney, who also tried to use stigmas or discredit her because of her job. she accused daniels of extorting donald trump. she replied, false. that was an allegation in the
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form of a question. she raised the idea that daniels made it up. she not only denies it but it would be a tough pill for the jury to swallow with so much cooperation. she had some interaction with donald trump that made him concerned about it that he was willing to pay for her silence according to receipts. she said that sharing her story has negatively impacted her. there is a lot of cooperation for that. her testimony paved the way for other witnesses. some are not as exciting but they go to what they have to prove. not just that it happened and a cover up but an intentional financial cover-up that donald trump knew about at the time. a bookkeeper from his company said that he talked to his convicted cfo, weisselberg, daily. the testimony back up by another staff assistant who said on thursday that they remembered a couple times with a question about a check and donald trump were pick up allen weisselberg. she became emotional and cried
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on the stand. she said she met with the defense earlier to prepare as she was a prosecution witness. the gives signal of her perspective. that is okay, by the way. the witnesses might have a mixed perspective no matter who they are called by. they are supposed to tell the truth and the jury assesses that. friday the judge floated the idea of having the aforementioned convicted moneyman, weisselberg, testify himself. that would be a big deal. i mention unexpected things could add time. if you added a witness, and had to get out of rikers jail, that might take extra time. he's in new york after pleading guilty for committing perjury in a different case. a related fraud case, because the allegation has dragged donald trump into different courtrooms. that is the second time that weisselberg went to jail for things he did related to
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because of donald trump. political reports said that donald trump looked visibly concerned in court recently. weisselberg came in, they seemed to think he is loyal but better off not heard from. we are also seeing the way that day by day the process can yield different information. the staffer i mentioned, when she testified on friday, she said that donald trump would sign checks without reviewing them. that will go to a class among and across witnesses and the da and defense arguments. the jury's job is not to root for one side and not to just take the first thing they hear as gospel. they will get instructions before deliberating to take it holistically. not just the recent argument for which lawyer went first or the witness who went last.
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the out of the loop donald trump trump claim is a fair defense. you have to look at the evidence, the bragging about how involved he is plus the tape of him talking about these payments. we were using a general standard like two sources of journalism, they have the defendant dead to rights. it's a higher standard and deliberate see alyssa's not just two sources or reasonably what happened, it is a high standard on purpose for all defendants. beyond a reasonable doubt that he did it, covered it up and did it with a campaign crime intent. it's a higher bar and that's why we will watch the next week as the da brings in and see and russ's case. the trial is going forward and donald trump's effort to delay this, this courtroom they failed.
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we will continue with a special guest to help us wrap up a bruising week for donald trump. we will be back together in 90 seconds. so we partner with ve. their solution for us? a private 5g network. (ella) we now get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. our customers get what they want, when they want it. (jen) now we're even smarter and ready for what's next. (vo) achieve enterprise intelligence. it's your vision, it's your verizon. oh, yeah, man. take it from your inner child. what you really need in life is some freakin' torque. what? the dodge hornet r/t... the totally torqued-out crossover.
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speaking about this in 2018, this week for the first time people heard her under oath. we are joined by former attorney, vance. professor, when you look at this week, we are always looking for inflection points. it really felt like a barreled forward. in some ways for all of the excitement about michael cohen next week, if you were writing a story where the da began to really congeal and focus its case, if ellicott came more this week than next. if they are winning, we do not know if they are, it could be from the combination of receipts from daniels this week. >> is an interesting rhythm that the prosecution established this week. there is a lot of momentum but some mundane and monotonous moments where witnesses had to collaborate the chain of
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evidence. there were quieter moments. punctuated by some really explosive testimony, people are going to look back on the set of questions that stormy daniels answered from the prosecution and the defense lawyer. there is a pattern here. the real star of this week was not any of these witnesses. rather, the documents that were there to elaborate. the documents were the stars for they do not lie. they establish the prosecution story. the witnesses were all there to basically elaborate and give context and color for the documents. to give the jurors a story. trials are storytelling. prosecution using these documentary evidence decided to tell a broad story and use the witnesses to make the story come to life. >> joyce? >> something that anyone who
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served on a jury understands, judges admonish jurors at the start of a trial that they must not deliberate until all of the evidence is in and they are in the room together. we are treating the case differently. we are assessing each witness as they testify. every piece of evidence as it comes in. sometimes that leads us to overfocus on one bit of evidence. without seeing the bigger picture that the jury will have with me deliberate. i find melissa's assessment to be entirely appropriate when she talks about the trajectory of the case. the prosecution has had one overarching goal in mind throughout the interior presentation of the evidence. the goal is to veterans michael cohen's credibility before he takes the witness stand. the top part of this case is
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the proof that donald trump knew, approved, participated, wanted to use the false business records to conceal other crimes. other stop of the way they executed that goal. whether the way that stormy daniels held up beautifully on cross-examination. she comes across, not as a star. the way she has been caricatured far too many times in the media. she comes across as a real person with real interests and an important life story. someone the jury may not approve of what they can listen to and ultimately believe. at the same time, melissa nails the key, it is the documents. the documents do not lie. they are in evidence now. they have allen weisselberg's writing on them. he may not testified but it does not matter because the documents are there. >> you're both talking about the documents and how the trump defense and the doubt they want
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to and still runs into the brick wall. that is why the da has been having momentum. joe was donald trump's lawyer in the new york case until he left. we asked him -- if you are defense, no fraud because it was true. the problem, the money did not stay with the lawyer. it passed to the lawyer and went to stormy daniels. it was not money for the lawyer, it was money for her. from a legal perspective you have the cfo and he literally writes down his plot on paper and says let's lie and commit tax fraud. here was that exchange. >> is stormy daniels a lawyer? >> i do not think she was. i do not think the lawyer was either. >> she's not and the payments were made. according to federal filings, classified on the trump side as
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legal services. that was false, wasn't it? >> the payment was made to a lawyer, not stormy daniels. >> joyce? >> that was slicing thinly. ultimately, it does not work. in addition to the trump books, the payments to michael cohen as legal fees, multiple witnesses have said they were reimbursement payments to stormy daniels. we know that in the california litigation, stormy daniels said she did not approve it. her lawyer sued trump for defamation. she loses that case and was ordered to pay donald trump's legal fees. as part of the filings, donald trump concedes the money is reimbursement for a payment to stormy. the prosecution can put that into evidence and that might be what happens with the last witness. that is compelling evidence,
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along with the donald trump tweet where he talks about his lawyer handling a private agreement. it all adds up to knowledge. it is contrary to this defense that donald trump did not know and these were legal payments to michael cohen, who somehow went as a free agent and decided to spend donald trump's money for him in the slim hope he would be reimbursed down the road. that story does not make sense. the jury will use common sense when they deliberate. >> right. if the story does not make sense, it takes us the next week, professor. there might be questions and issues for michael cohen on cross. to believe the trump defense, you would have to believe everything that michael cohen has been through, including prison, he is sticking to a new made-up story.
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perjuring himself and taking a new liability and somehow pulling other people into it. i hesitate to make a musical reference, professor -- i am just kidding. it's a bit like that near the end of the drake and kendrick lamar battle where he said that some of the things that kendrick said about him, he secretly planted it. he claimed negative information about himself so that kendrick could say it so he could say, got you, it is false. i tricked you to attack me. if that sounds convoluted, people question if it is true? i put that to you, as well as for evidence, the other issue with michael cohen, the judge said to witnesses, he was moved to say that i would direct the people to communicate to michael cohen that the judge is asking him to refrain from making anymore statements about this case. that is certainly not great. your thoughts on any of the above?
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>> certainly a minor deviation for michael cohen. you will know what i mean by that, given your knowledge of the drake/kendrick lamar beef. one thing this week, they got out a lot of dirt on michael cohen before he came into the room. we honestly , if he performs well and strings together sentences that are articulate and makes a case to the jury and stands up on cross examination, it will be a success. the strategy was to minimize the importance of michael cohen by making the documents do the work of corroborating history. they did a lot of work this week, lining up the documents. providing context and also providing the claims that the defense will make about michael cohen and his credibility going forward.
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again, watch michael cohen next week. we might actually be very surprised that he stands up. that is perhaps because the prosecution has done so much work this week to error out all of the dirty linen. >> you have given us and anyone listening more insight on why it's going down the way it is. whether the negatives are coming out now. the strategy for that, what is likely, the final four days, three -- the final days of testimony for the prosecution. i will tell both of you on behalf of msnbc, stay near your phones. new your cameras, stay hydrated. we will call you a lot next week. thank you. i appreciate it. a lot more coming up, including how the oval office meetings could haunt donald trump. we will hear testimony about
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some of that next week. when we do this , we have interesting people join us. in a claim along serving journalists who knows new york and donald trump inside-out. our special guest later. michael steele. stay with us. good point. well, when you're feeling super hot or super not, it's pedialyte. the #1 dr. recommended brand for hydration. you know what's brilliant? boring. think about it. boring is the unsung catalyst for bold. what straps bold to a rocket and hurtles it into space? boring does. boring makes vacations happen, early retirements possible, and startups start up. because it's smart, dependable, and steady. all words you want from your bank. for nearly 160 years, pnc bank has been brilliantly boring so you can be happily fulfilled... which is pretty un-boring if you think about it.
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there is playing hide and seek. if i cower away it feeds the bullies. >> donald trump is a con man. he asked me to pay off an adult film star with whom he had an affair. to lie about it to his wife, which i did. >> the bookend of two star witnesses. one this week and one next week. the da will be ready to rest
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its case. in legal speak, prosecutors say by thursday they will have proven the elements of two crimes by defendant donald trump. michael steele ran the rnc and he is part of our special as we try to lean back to take it in. thanks for being here. >> it is good to see you, as always. >> it is good to see you. it might sound funny coming from me but there is such a thing as too many lawyers. we love all of our legal experts we have had all week and tonight. i turn to you for the story. do you know who is not a lawyer? most of the jurors. what you think of the story they are telling, not what people would've expected. if six months ago you had this case you start with michael cohen, he has firsthand knowledge. they started on the other side of the transaction with the tabloid. they went through a ton of other witnesses and ended with michael cohen. how was i to storyteller in politics and how will it work for the jury?
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>> a good story. they did the appropriate amount of spice. then they do the boring numbers and the processes and the internal workings. then they will and with a little more spice. i think it has been a well laid out approach to the jury. what is important is that it talks about how -- matters. they know this jury, they have a sense of where the jury is going to land. what the jury may be interested in knowing. aspects of the jury that we did not get to know or see because we were not in the room with them. we were not watching their faces. when they selected this jury, that is when the real strategy of how to present this case
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begins. i think the prosecution have figured out the way to approach this jury to bring them in to the story. folks are getting hyped up about the scintillating parts and the naughty bits from the encounter between stormy and donald trump. by that point of the narrative, they pretty much laid down -- okay, this is why -- this is why donald trump did what he did. this is why we are saying this is a crime. you hear the naughty bits and you go, i see why he did not want to tell his wife. he did not want to tell the public while running for president what was happening here. i think that cements it coming up with michael cohen. >> yeah. this is related to the
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campaign, like i mentioned. the person running at the highest level of the campaign was steve bannon. as of friday he is on pace to spend the coming election date inside a federal prison. i will show viewers the news on friday. steve bannon, his conviction for defying congress over january 6. similar to peter navarro. it will take a supreme court intervention to help him. they did not do so on a similar charge against peter navarro. he can surrender to prison with four months in federal prison. that is a significant accountability for a very powerful person. he is a rich multimillionaire. close to the president. got help with the use of his pardon power in the past. we have no reason to think that the current president would intervene, to say the least. what are your thoughts? >> accountability is a, you
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know what -- right? when you are held accountable you will pay. your time is four months and some days. do it. that is what the judge has decided. the appeals court affirmed it. now you have to pay for that. the great irony here is that all of these people going to jail for donald trump . yet, they still are beholden to him. bannon is not going to stray that far away. weisselberg, not once, twice, taking the shot for donald trump. donald trump, proves to me again that he is the weakest link. he is the one who is not man enough to take and hold himself accountable. to say, come after me. let's do it. finding ways to delay, lie, challenge, and go after the system and the judges and their
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families. because he is scared. he is scared. yet, the others have gone to jail. they held their heads up and they are doing it for donald trump. i am curious if donald trump will do it for himself? are you going to hold your head up and takes what comes from this jury? you have gotten some breaks. they delayed the other cases to the point where they will probably not happen this year. this'll be an interesting accountability moment which goes back to how we started the conversation. why the selection of this jury was important? and why the storytelling that we have seen unfold by the prosecution with little rebuttal, by the way by the defense. there was one session where even the judge was like, you know that you had moments where you should have objected, right? >> right. yeah.
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>> the storytelling -- >> the sidebars, yeah. hey, you could have done something. >> yes. >> michael, you get to stay. because it is a special i will bring anderson. real background on this and does not always get to join us. i have michael staying and kurt anderson. something special coming up after the break. >> that is exciting. these days everyone is staring at screens, and watching their spending. good vision is more important than ever, but so is saving. that's why america's best includes a free eye exam
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welcome back to our special. new york versus trump. tonight we want to dig in further to the revealing and even wild moments we have seen so far. this is the trial fall back segment. we have some special guests. kurt anderson with the new book, evil geniuses, the unmaking of america. he cofounded the magazine from back in the day. we have been talking about the tabloid era, spy from the 80s. it was known for this figure they discovered in new york seen as baby trump. donald trump. they labeled him the short fingered bulgarian. that ago throughout the 2016 campaign. >> he was in the room when the phrase, short fingered bulgarian
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was coined. >> we decided to refer to him always as a short fingered bulgarian. >> he is six foot two. i'm not sure why his hands are the size of someone who is five foot two. >> sometimes the turn of phrase is memorable. michael steele is back with us. anytime we do a fallback we will mentioned that he has been immortalized by john stuart who has returned for this year of coverage. these days he hosts the weekend. this is a trial fallback. what is on your list? >> three things. one, among the most serious of my three, the lack of any audiovisual coverage of this trial. in a general way, the fact that
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the entertainment figure, donald trump, became president and is being tried for his crimes as president, deserves in some epic poetic justice way, to be covered live in the courtroom. new york state is one of the very, very, few states in the u.s. that do not allow any television coverage of trials. most states, the trials are on tv. it makes no sense in general what we, new york and louisiana, danette. i do not know anything else about which that can be said. that seems a mistake. this trials seems like the ultimate case of where transparency would be a good thing and would serve the public.
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the last four years, the supreme court has had their or arguments live. maintained the decorum. there is no television of clarence thomas sitting back or whatever. it is sound. people can listen. it is civilized. you can at least do that, it seems to me. i think we have seen that. by the way, in terms of transparency, fox news, which is covering this trial in a minimalist fashion, would probably feel obliged to carry the trial proceedings live if they were on television. >> you make a great comparison. even if you have the camera issue, the court in d.c. found the middleground of doing the audio. sometimes live on cases of big interest. it would also give people the feeling, the dexterity, the
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touch. if you are a donald trump fan, fine, you get to actually hear the defense . we share that common experience as a country. the oj case was big because it was accessible. if we had to cover him the way we had to cover this with just readouts, you never saw the gloves, i'm not sure it would go the same way? for your fallback, michael, i want to play something and you tell us your thoughts. here they are bemoaning the gag order on fox. this is jesse watters. >> they are threatening to throw the republican nominee for president in jail for talking, harris. for talking during an election. i am not a lawyer, i just play one on tv. according to the gag, you can have the loch ness monster as a juror, donald trump cannot say
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that it is real. that is $1000. right there. >> what are your thoughts? >> the growth of the theocracy in this country is amazing. it is absolutely amazing. they must be handing out diplomas for stupid. you know, it is beyond the imagination. the fake outrage. jesse and a lot of those folks know what a gag order is. they know why the gag order was imposed. the fake outrage that donald trump somehow was told to shut up because he is talking about the judge. the judge's family. the clerks in the court, et cetera, it is not outrageous. it is not anything new. he knows that during the many trials that fox was involved in,
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they were very careful not to run their miles and concerned about what donald trump would say about fox during that time. they get it. the fickle must to donald trump and his crazy, to me, can we just stop with that at this point? we are smarter and more mature. the rest of you need to catch up. the growth of the eddie or chrissy in this country is stifling. >> kurt, you are an expert on how donald trump roles. how he lives. how he is. we showed your baby cover with the fingers and the judge had to figure out a deal with him. he made a bet that he is better off finding him and keeping it
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moving and getting to a jail class. you had a fallback about that. what are your thoughts? >> i did. i believe the judge is probably correct in that. he has been amazing in his judicial manner. but, it seems a mistake in general that the maximum fine in new york state on contempt of court is $1000. that seems as clear, and the judge implied, $1000 to donald trump is nothing. the cost of doing business to say what he wants, to violate the gag order, not only that -- we can also talk about his money of sessions. it seems to me at the least that the maximum fine should be much greater to deal with
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people like donald trump, for $1000, it is nothing. it would be something at least for almost anyone else. the other option that he has would be to put him in jail for up to 30 days. perhaps he should not do that, but if the $1000 does nothing to stop him, almost nothing, of course he needs to. the jesse watters thing in addition to being more and idiotic, the loch ness joke was the stupidest version of that joke. >> respect. we appreciate that. the point about the dollars -- michael, go ahead. you want to get in. >> i am all about it.
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let the writer put the -- on it. he just did. thank you very much for >> there you go. i have 80 seconds now, michael. kurt raises the point that the trial reminds us of how the system works. i mentioned that steve bannon got four months. that is just like anybody else's four months. on these other things, the bail system, the content fine, it is not saying the same four months. it's not like the dock one week's pay. if they docked rich people a week's pay that adds up to a couple months, they might be affected. it is designed against the poor to make it meaningless for the very rich. >> yeah. that is one more example, the fact that you have the swihart jails that they go to. the very rich go to, the country club jail for the wealthy.
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who have been found pilfering millions of dollars from the customers, clients, et cetera, they get to spend their time playing golf and doing putt putt here, putt putt there. the rest of us sit at rikers. that is the difference. look, i advocated for a while now that all of the entrapments of the presidencies should be shipped from donald trump during this period, because he fortified by his actions. i am hoping that a future congress will address this matter to make it very clear that you do not get to play president while you're in the criminal justice system. because all that will do, make a mockery of the office you once held. to put the system itself in unnecessary knots. if donald trump is convicted, donald trump should lose secret service protection. by the way, they are called,
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guards, in the jail. i do not think they will be any problem protecting the man who has his number. like any other prisoner. we need to dial that down a little bit. when you have bad behavior like these politicians at any level, they sued alyssa should be. if i committed a crime, my state troopers would not be sitting in the jail protected me. same should be true for the president of the united states. >> i perish the thought, they would put those adorable blue hands of yours, your puppet hands -- if you are watching, you have to go back to the intro. >> my small hands.
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>> take it away. i have to warn you, kurt, the way tv works, you can have 20 second sentence. >> the prosecution's case was based on the fact that donald trump cares about every dime that goes in or comes out. the 1990s, you can look it up, it was an experiment. >> one sentence. >> rich people a bunch of checks of declining value. two people, one of the winners, donald trump trump. he cares. >> there you go. kurt anderson and michael steele. we will be right back.
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michael: is up next. the convicted lawyer turned stall -- star witness. something he actually counted when he testified to congress in 2019. >> in february of 2017, one month into his presidency, i am visiting president trump in the oval office for the first time. it is truly inspiring. he says to me something the affect to, do not worry, michael, your january and february reimbursement checks
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are coming. >> michael cohen's big day , finally taking the stand on monday will kickoff the final week of the das case. by thursday they plan to rest their case against defendant trumpet from 6:00 to 8:00 eastern, we have a special two hour addition of the beat. we will see you there, i will be right back. and yours too! you did it! plus try centrum silver, now clinically proven to support memory in older adults. it's time to feed the dogs real food, not highly processed pellets. the farmer's dog is fresh food made with whole meat and veggies. it's not dry food. it's not wet food. it's just real food. it's an idea whose time has come. frustrated by skin tags? dr. scholl's has the breakthrough you've been waiting for. now there's an easier-to-use at home skin tag remover, clinically proven to remove skin tags
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keep it locked right here on msnbc. >> covering this third day on the stand for the key witness,

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