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tv   Dateline  MSNBC  May 27, 2024 12:00am-1:00am PDT

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and remington were determined to change. breaking the cycle of pain and heartache that is filled their young lives. >> i imagined when i was little, this perfect family, and so now the idea that one day i will be able to make the family for myself and for jackson, and to have this happy family, like i am so excited for that. >> that is all for this edition of dateline. i am craig melvin. thank you for watching. antone black: i can't sleep to this day. >> i am craig melvin and this is dateline. >> i can't sleep to this day. i seen him begging for his life. he was george floyd before george floyd. >> he told our mother he loved
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her. >> no mother should have to witness what you witness. >> he didn't attack nobody. he did not rob a bank. that's not right. >> everything seems to escalate. >> i am curious how many times you have used your taser as a police officer? >> non-. >> i don't see indication of malice. i don't see -- i felt it was a professional response. >> from a medical examiner's -- >> it's a homicide. >> i want the truth to be known about my brother. >> hello, and welcome to dateline. anton black star's was on the rise. he was a skilled athlete and day aspiring model. loved one said his life was cut
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short at the hands of police as his mother watched in horror. soon, alarming videos emerged sparking outrage in the community and fueling a family's fight for justice. here is lester holt with what happened to anton black? >> it was saturday evening, september 15, 2018 in the small, quiet town of greensboro, maryland. around 7:00 p.m., denise and her husband tony were driving home from church. >> we could see these two black boys. the bigger boy had the smaller boy and a headlock. >> he put the full nelson, picked him up, swaying him. >> this was not -- >> you wanted to keep them in your site. >> yes. >> denise and the younger boy locked eyes.
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>> i said are you all right? he said no. >> you dialed 911. >> there is an older boy who has a younger boy -- he is dragging him. the boy is crying out for help. >> what denise did not know as the boys, 19-year-old anton black and a 12-year-old named xavier were neighbors who had known each other for years. >> lb addressing the sheriff's office. >> a police car arrived. greensboro officer thomas webster got out. >> the officer was standing like this on the other side but talking to them. >> he was acting professionally? >> definitely. >> something went wrong. there was a foot chase and a struggle. police officers pinned anton to the ground. soon emergency workers were on the scene, attempting to resuscitate anton on the front
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doorstep of his home as his mother looked on. >> not yet. >> she telephoned anton's father and tone. you got to phone line that you're not able to see what's happening. >> i hear what was happening. i was telling her to get him up . >> it was too late. can you tell me how and when you heard the news that your brother had died? >> yes. our mother called and she say your brother is dead. >> latoya, anti-'s older sister, immediately headed to the hospital to see her baby brother one last time. >> he had a white sheet up to his neck. his eyes were red like someone
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had smothered him. >> you probably never heard of anton black. neither had we. we found out about anton while reporting about a case you have heard of, the murder george floyd under the knee of officer derek chauvin. we learned a controversial expert who testified in that trial had also played a central role in anton black's case two years earlier. we began to look into it and found that anti-'s case like george floyd's, touches many pressure points in the heated debate about policing in america, especially the black community. our stories about the incidents that occur too often but unlike george floyd, seldom make national news. >> my name is anton black. this is my introduction video. >> this is my baby boy. anton.
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>> anton was a standout athlete. voted his homecoming king twice. >> he was a star. wide receiver on the football team. champion in the 100, 200, and high jump. he was a very exciting young man to see. i loved to see him run. and jump. >> after graduating, anton enrolled in college. but his sister said his true passion was to build a career as a model. >> he had the looks. >> definitely. gorgeous. >> in that summer 2018, his behavior changed. >> to me, all of a sudden, he got moody. he was upset all the time. >> you went to a hospital.
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>> yes. >> anton was diagnosed with bipolar disorder which can develop in teenaged years. he spent a week in the hospital. 10 days after he was discharged, anton was dead. no mother should have to witness what you witness. >> no. no. i never thought this would happen. >> he didn't attack nobody. he didn't rob a bank. he is home. you don't get off of him? that is not right. i am sorry. >> anton's family was shattered. angry and highly suspicious. they wanted answers and soon they learned there might be a way to get them. there was a body cam video, but the family would have to fight to see it. >> coming up.
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what would that video reveal? you will see exactly what happened and hear how town leaders had been warned. >> i was angry. the community band together to try to prevent something like that from happening. >> when dateline continues. lin moments are you left guessing which foods are right for you? with the freestyle libre 3 system you'll know your glucose and where it's headed no fingersticks needed. freestyle libre 3 manage your diabetes with more confidence and lower your a1c. so you can focus on those special moments. covered by medicare for more people managing diabetes with insulin. talk to your provider or visit freestylelibre.us/medicare
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lester holt: that shy smile, those dance moves, his bright future stolen, anton's dad says, the shy smile.
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those dance moves. his bright future stolen. anton's dad said from all of them, far too soon. >> he's a big alligator and a little pond. he is an actor. champion runner. long jump. this boy was a good child. >> his best friend stevan and zach were crushed. zach, what was your reaction when you learned about anton's death and how he died? >> i don't even know how to explain a. never felt nothing like it. >> i busted out in tears. >> christine is devon's mother and like a second mom to anton. >> anton was such a sweet kid. >> small town kid. >> he always had a big smile to greet you. very respectful. very driven.
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>> kristina said to understand what happened to anton, you have to understand greensboro. she has lived here for nearly two decades. the town has fewer than 3000 residents, 7% are black. despite the deep history of slavery, kristina called it her modern-day mayberry. lingering racial issues there? >> not that we experience. >> she said she felt safe raising her black son and greensboro in large part because of the police. a tiny force with just three officers. >> they took the time to know the community. it's nothing for them to stop and say hi and talk to you in the store. >> community policing in this community, it's right there. >> we had the dream. >> kristina became friends with jeff, the greensboro police chief for 15 years before anton died.
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in a small town, how much involvement do you have with the people you police. >> you are involved with them every day. you know when kids are born into get pictures with kids going to the prom. >> not everybody appreciated chief jackson's style. there came a point where things began to change in terms of how you were viewed. can you tell us what that point was? >> when he was elected mayor. >> joe was the father of anton's friend zach. he has lived here for 25 years. in 2011, he ran for mayor. part-time position, and one go by a single vote. you know joe from high school? >> yet. i helped campaign for him. i would babysit people's kids so they could go and vote. >> you believed in him. >> yes. >> she started to have doubts
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when her friends said he wanted to change the leadership of the police department. >> what were your concerns? >> i was getting complaints from the public and business owners in reference to the police chief. >> chief jackson. >> that's correct. complaints about speeders and people running stop signs. nothing was getting fixed. >> was chief jackson being ineffective? >> yes. >> jackson said he was alarmed by the new mayor's focus, especially because violent crime was firstly not existent in their town. >> he told man two separate occasions that he wanted people scared to drive through greensboro. honest to god. he told me i want people scared to drive through greensboro. i said no. that's not the way you police small town america. >> the word is you wanted to replace them with somebody tougher. >> i want to say somebody more proactive in the streets of greensboro. >> is that the same as being
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aggressive? >> know it. being more proactive in police work. >> tell me what you thought when you heard the police chief was being fired? >> i said, what do you mean? he said they want a tougher police force. it makes you nervous. who are you being tougher on? unfortunately, they tend to be the black and brown kids. >> young people like her son devon and his best friend anton black. her were returned to fear when she heard the new police chief, michael, had welcome to the force a new officer, thomas webster who had a troubling past. >> a lot of people were concerned. scared. >> coming up. >> i started to watch the video and it disturbed me. what are you bringing to this town? town? ve had multiple strokes.
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lester holt: when canton black died,y. christina robinson felt as if she'd lost her own son. what hurt even more was the feeling that she'd seen it coming, ever since she when anton black died, kristina robinson felt as if she had lost her own son. what heard even more was the feeling she had seen it coming. ever since she googled greensboro's newest police officer, thomas webster. >> i started to watch the video and that disturbed me.
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>> another one fled around the store. >> the video which is hard to watches from august 2013 when webster wasn't officer in dover, delaware. he and another officer were responded to a call about a fight when they stopped one of the suspects. and ordered him on his hands and knees. just as dickerson began to comply, webster kicked him in the face, knocking him out and breaking his jaw. it took two years for the video to go public. only after webster was charged with second-degree assault. >> folks wanted answers. they wanted justice. >> lamar, then president of the naacp of central delaware led protests outside the courthouse. >> a packed courtroom today. >> at his trial, webster testified he was afraid
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dickerson was reaching for a gun. he said he meant to kick him in the upper body but missed and kicked him in the face. after three days of deliberations, webster was acquitted. >> this sends us years backwards. we are clearly not happy with this response. >> with an agreement with the city, webster resigned and left with his pension, $230,000. >> i thought he was done. >> two years later, lamar her disturbing news. webster was hired as an officer the greensboro, maryland, police department 25 miles away. >> i felt betrayed. i could not believe it. >> did you feel the need to warn the folks of greensboro? >> the moment i learned webster was in the process of being hired in greensboro, i made a phone call. >> he said he spoke with the city manager.
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>> i went step-by-step as to why you would have to hate the people you serve to unleash that type of monster on unsuspecting citizens. >> you called him a monster? >> yes. >> lamarr was not the only one to warn officials about officer webster and that video. >> my first phone call was to joe. i was, what are you bringing to this town? do you know about the tape? >> you had seen the video? >> i did. >> what did you think? >> it was nasty. it was not good to the human eye at all. >> when greensboro's new chief suggested hiring webster, the mayor supported it saying webster deserved a second chance. so he was hired and that bother
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christina. you knocked on doors trying to stop the hiring of officer webster ? >> yes. >> she drafted a petition to reverse the hiring. >> it didn't feel he was a good fit for our community. >> her petition did not work. the town council comprised of five white men decided webster would remain on the force. although we did not have a vote, christina was furious with her old friend, the mayor. do you remember what you told him? >> that if anything happens to my son or one of my kids, i mean, community mom. i was coming for all of them. >> six months later it was officer webster who responded to that 911 call and initiated the chase that ended with the death of anton black. >> i was angry because i had see how the community tried to band together to try to prevent
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something like that from happening. >> anton's family wanted answers and thought webster's body cam and anton's autopsy report might provide them. >> we were asking for what happened and no one was talking to us. >> they called an attorney for help. >> that was the hardest thing i have ever done in my legal career was when i went to that home and met the family. i saw jenell black. i will never forget what she looked like. >> what kind of information were you getting or maybe not getting from authorities? >> we were not getting any information. >> she enlisted the help of an investigator who learned the basic details. anton had spent that afternoon at the park playing basketball where he ran into xavier, the 12-year-old neighbor he had
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known for years. >> anton i know was sweet. >> xavier spoke about the anton he knew with the maryland state police investigator. >> yeah, he was nice. i would walk around the whole town with him. >> that day, xavier said while he and anton were walking home from the park, anton started roughhousing. >> we hit the spot on the bridge and that's when he got me in the headlock. >> xavier was afraid anton would throw him off the bridge. >> i kept saying let me go. >> nothing in his statement explained anton's death without answers. anton's family grew more outreach. especially because officer webster remained on the job. >> we spoke to the town council members. we begged them to put webster on leave.
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we said it would not matter if it was paid. they wouldn't hear our cries. >> good evening. >> four months after anton's death, a greensboro town council met to discuss webster's fate. >> closed session. >> while the mayor and council deliberated, anton supporters went across the street to a church to await their decision. >> hurt so bad. they have no idea who they took from us. >> christina robinson's mayberry had begun to unravel. >> we had officers that cared. that were invested. if those officers were here on that day, it never would have escalated to the level that it was escalated to. >> the fact of the matter,
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anton black is a black teenager. the fact of the matter he lost his life in the custody of white police officer. >> then came the news. the town council had made a decision. officer webster was put on administrative leave with pay. for anton's family it was the first step. >> this is an injustice to my child. >> they didn't know how anton died. that was about to change. >> coming up. some body cam video goes viral. >> i am curious how many times you have used your taser as a police officer? >> non-. non-.
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at least 18 are dead after storms with the southern and midwestern u.s. over the weekend. the systems which produce flooding and tornadoes left over 350,000 without power. the we can weather postpone the start of the indianapolis 500. after the four hour delay, new garden spit a victory after taking a final lap lead. he becomes the first driver in over two decades to a win in back to back years. anton black died in a violent struggle with police, i am craig melvin. anton black died in a violent struggle with police and his family wanted answers. despite their pleas, local officials released videos of the account but soon they would have no choice. anton's loved ones were about to witness every excruciating moment of the troubled teen's fight to survive. back to lester holt with what happened to anton black?
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>> in the months after anton black's death, his family and friends turned their anger into action. they formed a group, the coalition for justice for anton black. they took to the streets. >> he was such a wonderful person. >> to this day, we do not have answers. >> the family had been asking for the body cam video with his encounter with officer webster to be released. in january 2019, weeks after webster was put on leave, maryland's governor larry hogan ordered it to be made public. the video, initially shown to reporters, capture the final moments of anton's life and it starts with officer webster talking to xavier and anton. >> listen. you are not his brother? >> he is not my brother. >> stop.
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>> right before webster turned on his camera, xavier told him anton was schizophrenic, which was not accurate. anton had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. when webster went to hancock anton, he gave the officer an odd response. and began to run away. webster radioed the dispatcher. >> he just fled on foot. apparently he is a schizophrenic. >> three other men joined the pursuit. two off-duty officers from nearby jurisdictions who happen to be in the area, one with a civilian on a motorcycle. anton ran to his home and locked himself in the car outside. officer webster arrived moments later and without saying a word, he drove his baton and smash the driver's side window. then, he fired his taser. when it did not work anton
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grappled with the man up the ramp toward his front door as he cried out for his mother. the officers then wrestled anton to the ground. with the help of the civilian who had a confederate flags on his motorcycle helmet, anton's mother jenell heard the commotion and stepped outside. webster began speaking with her. >> anton tried to abducted 12- year-old and then fled from the police. >> anton, handcuffed and on his stomach was kicking his legs so webster decided they should shackle them too. anton continued to cry out. >> i love you. >> you'll be better if you do not fight. >> officer webster told his mother he was not in legal
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trouble. >> so he is not getting locked up? >> no. >> anton went limp. >> anton, come on. >> that is when emts were called but they could not revive him. >> i can't sleep to this day. i seen him begging for his life. he was hollering mommy. they never got off of him. >> how come they didn't let him up? i was standing right there. >> it seemed unreal and unnecessary to me. when i saw him go limp in the video, they still did not get off of him. >> christina blamed the police but she knew many of her white neighbors sided with the officers. as it split the community? >> it definitely did. >> along racial lines?
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>> it definitely did. >> one white person was chief jackson. when we asked about the video, he said the deadly situation could've been avoided entirely. >> i learned years ago it's easier to talk people into handcuffs than to fight them into handcuffs. >> he showed us how he might've handled it. >> let's find out what's going on and start slowing things down. >> slowing things down was important he says. especially since webster was told that anton was mentally ill. >> when anton ran off, jackson said webster should have let him go but instead made sure xavier was okay. >> i was like, where's the victim? what happened to him? the 12-year-old boy. where is he at? >> the reason jackson wouldn't have worried about anton was fleeing his because he knew him.
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he watched them grow up and worked with him and his friends to launch a youth group. >> if anton took off running, okay. i know where you live. i know where your mom is at. >> the example of benefit of community policing. jackson said webster made it even worse when he smashed the window. >> you keep escalating this. he busted a window. if he is having a schizophrenic episode, you are elevating it. what is wrong with walking up and going -- >> want to talk to you. >> come on. what is wrong with keeping it low-key? >> i am tasing him. >> i am curious how many times you used your taser as a police officer? >> none. >> felipe -- people will see it is monday morning
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quarterbacking. >> this is my style of policing. i did it for 15 years here. >> what did webster have to say about what happened that day? a lot. >> his behavior was so erratic and dangerous that we had to get him into custody. >> coming up. >> the window. >> is he going to do something dangerous in this vehicle? >> the taser. >> my end goal was to get him subdued. >> stop. you are under arrest. >> he was not responding to orders. . then i tried new zzzquil sleep nasal strips. their four—point lift design opens my nose for maximum air flow. so, i breathe better. and we both sleep better. and stay married. and i smoked while i was pregnant. this is the view i had of my baby in the nicu.
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thomas webster: all right, listen-- lester holt: a day after officer webster's body cam footage was released, the "baltimore sun" wrote an editorial saying there was no justification for such aggression by the police. a day after officer webster's body cam footage was released, the baltimore sun wrote an editorial saying there was no justification for such aggression by the police. not everyone was happy about that. in 2019, you wrote a letter to the baltimore sun about this case. what was the point you wanted to make? >> it's a point i could've made in a number of cases involving law enforcement officers is there is an urgency to judge the actions of police officers before the facts are known. >> jason johnson as president
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of the law-enforcement legal defense fund which provides support officers charged with crimes. >> black male wearing all black. >> after watching the video, how would you describe officer webster and the other officer' actions? >> i think they responded to a difficult situation. >> he said anton black's death was a tragedy but none of the officers were to blame. >> i don't see any indication of malice or indifference to mr. black's health or well being. it meets the professional standard. >> he needs help. >> he's not being locked up? >> no. >> they seem to recognize it was a mental health emergency. they seem to have -- in their communication with mr. black and his mom. i felt it was a professional response. >> johnson did question some of the officer's choices like when he smashed the car window. >> i think that's the one key
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moment when there is criticism, objective observer could question the. the question is reasonable. >> was tasing a good option? >> i think it was objectively reasonable. i don't think it was the best choice. >> officer webster declined multiple requests for an interview with dateline. he did speak on the record. >> did you happen to be working in september 15? >> yes, sir, i was. >> the maryland state police launched an investigation and interviewed webster about what happened that night. starting with the initial 911 call. >> a child being held against his will. some sort of unlawful imprisonment. >> once there, he reassessed the situation. >> this was being treated as a psychiatric emergency. this was will end up being a medical emergency first versus a fleeing suspect.
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>> webster said he had good reason to smash the window. >> is he going to do something dangerous in his vehicle? is he retrieving a weapon? >> as for the taser. >> my end goal in deploying the taser was to get him subdued. >> when it didn't work, webster said they had no choice but to wrestle anton to the ground. >> stop. >> he was not responding to orders to stop resisting. he was very difficult to hold onto because of his strength. >> at the end of the interview, -- >> is or anything else you want to say? >> webster did not express regret but said he was grateful . >> i was fortunate to have as many people there to help including the civilian motorcyclist. it could have been a more protracted, longer struggle.
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>> a struggle he says he could not have handled alone. >> if it had just been mr. black and myself, i am not sure that we would've been able to take him into custody as safely. >> safely is not a word anton's family would use to describe how it ended. they think a crime was committed, and not by intent. what should happen to webster in your opinion? >> he needs to go to jail. >> the death of anton black raised so many difficult questions about race, mental illness, use of force. theories of policing. now, anton's family was about to get answers about how he died, and whether anyone would be held accountable for his death. >> anton's autopsy report is released and sparks a new controversy.
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>> from what you have learned from anton black's case, what's a proper manner of death? >> homicide. he was in a fight and lost. that's a homicide. that's a homicide. are you tired of your hair breaking after waiting years for it to grow? meet new pantene pro-v miracles. with our highest concentration of pro-vitamins yet, infused with ingredients like biotin & collagen. strengthens hair bonds and repairs as well as the leading luxury brand without the $60 price tag. for stronger, healthier hair. ♪♪ if you know, you know it's pantene. ♪♪ the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles?
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that's amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? lester holt: four months after anton black's death on his own front doorstep, the autopsy report came out. the manner of death, accident. four months after anton black's death on his own front doorstep, the autopsy report came out. the manner of death?
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accident. >> it's an accident? your baking for your life and you don't get off of him. house that an accident? >> it was cosigned by the maryland chief medical examiner david fowler. you want to remember his name. it said while it was likely the stress of his struggle contributed to his death, no evidence was found that restraint by law enforcement directly caused are significantly contributed to it. the cause of death it stated was a heart defect, and a significant contributing condition was bipolar disorder. the day after the autopsy report was released, the county prosecutor announced no charges would be filed. >> he took somebody's life and you don't get charge? >> exonerated as soon as the autopsy report was signed. >> the role of the medical examiner was another issue
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captured in the harsh light of anton black's death. >> our role in legal cases plays a huge part. >> he was a chief medical examiner for washington, d.c. today he is head of pathology for howard university and an expert in investigating deaths like anton's that occur in police custody. >> he was breathing, running, talking before the via. he is no longer breathing, talking, running. and t dies. >> the doctor said even if anton had a heart defect, the reason he died was due to that struggle. >> laying on him. twice his size. that heart issue could now show itself to be fatal. >> his bipolar condition was listed as a contributing cause. did that make sense? >> in the case of an altercation with another person that leads to death, i'm not sure where the bipolar is on
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the death certificate. >> the autopsy notice petechia a and damage is often a sign of a asphyxiation. >> if there is a fix seal component, base able to breathe under these law-enforcement officers, we cannot see that. >> from what you learned from anton's case, what's a proper manner of death? >> homicide. anton was in a fight and lost. that's a homicide. >> which is not the same as a murderer and doesn't mean webster or anyone else committed a crime. whether they did anything wrong, that's a legal manner. >> that's correct. >> this is where the case intersects with george floyd's. when former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin went on trial for murder, his defense called an expert witness. >> i was watching it from my office. >> the expert was none other than dr. david fowler, the same
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medical examiner who cosigned anton black's autopsy report. >> -- >> he told the jury that despite chauvin's neon floyd's neck , and his expertise, it was undetermined. >> i was appalled. i began writing an open letter that called for an investigation and all death stand custody in maryland. >> in september 2021, the maryland attorney general launched a review of all in custody death cases during the 17 years dr. fowler served as the state medical examiner. of the 1300 cases on that list, the ag's office determined about 100 required further examination. >> if anton black is an accident and george floyd is undetermined, then how many other cases that we have no idea about our accidents and and determine?
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>> amid the unanswered questions that linger, there is one remarkable statement made by, of all people, jason johnson, who makes his living defending the police. >> i can tell you with some degree of certainty that thomas webster should not have been a greensboro police officer at all. >> it turns out that 2013 kick was only part of webster's past. we obtained is internal affairs file. during his 10 years as an officer in delaware, it lists 32 incidents involving the use of force and 26 were with african americans and all but 10 evolved webster deploying his taser. the maryland police commission certified webster to work in greensboro did not have that information. an investigation found that chief michael, the man who hired webster intentionally withheld it. 11 months after anton's death,
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webster was decertified as a police officer and fired. the chief was charged with misconduct in office for making factual misrepresentations. he pleaded guilty and was given three years probation by a judge who let him know how serious his crime was. >> you dishonored yourself. you violated your position of public trust. your omissions or, as i've said, purposeful and harmful. >> is that enough? >> no. it is something but it's not enough. >> and anton's memory, his family fought to change the law in maryland to make police misconduct records public. >> the veil of secrecy around police records has prevented transparency and accountability. >> in 2021, anton's family and supporters held a press conference the day before a new
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law was enacted. >> it has been three years now. we are still grieving. >> they called it anton's law. >> my son was george floyd before george floyd. >> in august 2022, three days before we broadcast anton's story, his family held a press conference to announce they settled a civil suit against the town of greensboro and other officials. the settlement included changes to use of force policies plus the family received $5 million. they later settled with the state of maryland and dr. david fowler for $100,000. the coalition for justice for anton black received 135,000. in the settlement, neither the state nor dr. fowler admitted any wrongdoing, but for anton's grieving parents, no amount of money will ease their pain or their outrage. >> there is no justice.
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nobody is charged. if it had not been for lester holt, dateline, it would never have got out. >> it will always be a tragedy because in anton's case, it did not have to happen. >> there are many lessons to be learned in the wake of anton black's tragic death about policing, and pain, friendship, and forgiveness. do you hold joe noon responsible adult in the death of anton? >> no. i know his heart and i know that he cares about my son. i know he cared about anton. >> do you feel any responsibility for this tragedy? >> i do. just as a human being and a mayor and a friend of anton and his family. i do. it sits with me every day. >> do you feel you let anton
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down? >> i feel i let everybody down. >> how do you want us to think and remember anton? >> he was a good child. a good son. a good citizen. >> i want anton to be a symbol of what could happen to anyone's child. i want anton to be remembered forever. >> that is all for this edition of dateline. i am craig melvin. thank you for watching. this sunday, the threat to democracy. >> democracy's othe ballot. >> i don't think you're going to have another election in this country if we don't win this election. >> it's one of the top issues in the 2024 election. >> mail-in voting is totally corrupt. we have

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