believe that today i count myself lucky that it was legal and safe and that message has resonated at the door steps. the courage to be exactly who i am often ends in tears and hugs at the ends of the conversation. so i think that authenticity that you're talking about is necessary, advantageous, and is going to get us a win tomorrow. >> i have to say goodbye but i wanted to self-correct. you actually won your primary by 14 points so i wanted to make sure i got that accurate. thank you so much, texas state senator molly cook and good luck tomorrow. >> thank you so much, katie. >> that does it for us. i'm going to see you tomorrow and the rest of this week or msnbc's complete coverage of donald trump's criminal trial. .

okay so there are big weeks and really big weeks and this week is as big as it comes. after weeks of revealing witness testimony, after weeks of intense cross-examination. after a legal system has been tried, tested in ways that it has never been before. we're now reaching the end of this trial. closing arguments start tomorrow. those seven men and five women will deliberate and decide the fate of the former president. we don't know what the outcome will be. only they decide that. that's how our system works. i know it all sounds surreal but it's all really happening, starting tomorrow morning. if one person appears to be feeling the heat right now, it is truly a surprise, he shouted

at the judge, the district attorney. hours away from closing arguments, the judge is probably past wanting to derail the. or the jury may be dead locked, unable to reach a consensus and this could end in a mistrial. or the jury could convict trump as former director has predicted. that would make former president trump the first president to be convicted. right now when it comes to how this is going to play out we simply don't know yet. but again it all starts tomorrow morning. and judging from the opening statements, we can expect prosecutor josh shineglass to make a pretty meticulous approach to story telling. as a communicator i was pretty impressed on how he was structuring the opening.

a big part of that, was convening what the hush payment was. that's going to be a key part of it. judging over the approach of the last several weeks we can expect to hear a further effort to dismantle michael cohen's story. if the jury doesn't believe him, michael cohen, they can help their client avoid a conviction. very soon after, when a jury of trump's peers in new york decide on the case. i have a full panel, the assistant general at the justice department. kushner, lisa ruben is an nbc legal kor correspondent. all of them have been following the trial. you've been there almost every

day, almost every day. >> every day. >> every day. sorry i didn't mean to cut you short there. we know josh stineglass is a meticulous story teller. what do you expect in terms of what he will say, what is important for him to say and hold up it'll be structured tomorrow. >> i think josh steinglass is finally going to put together a chronology of all the different testimony we've seen. we have seen testimony from different data from different sources. from phone record providers to the trump organization itself. so i expect that josh steinglass is going to take the jury through. how the conspiracy was formed. hour we know donald trump himself was not only a part of that conspiracy in a broad sense. but okay the payment -- okayed the payment to stormy daniels and how we know he okayed the

repayment scheme that allen wisenburg and michael cohen came up with then executed the checks, nine of them personally to michael cohen all throughout that period. and then they're going to take us to a period beyond the point where michael cohen was receiving checks to all the different episodes that show what mary and glen will know as consciousness of guilt. statements that trump made, in litigation, financial disclosure form and even on twitter that show he knew full well exactly what this was. it was a repayment for a hush money payment to stormy daniels. not payments for legitimate legal services. >> so mary, that's a lot to pack in to a closing argument. you know, a lot of what was in the opening which was interesting. it was story telling in an edgy way. that average people couldn't understand. what is most important in your view in this closing argument that the jury needs to hear and digest and understand. >> yeah, a few things. he wants to continue the story telling in a sense of we've now

told you this story. here's the evidence and we agree with lisa. he will set up a time line and go through it chronologically. here's a story we told you at opening. here's a story that we proved the evidence was admitted at trial. as well, he will show how basically the government, the people as they call them when i say in the state court in new york. the people established really the elements of this crime even before they got to michael cohen. so that he will try to minimize the necessity for michael cohen's testimony. michael cohen's evidence and have the jury know that the case was pretty much proven and michael cohen tied it all up. filled in some gaps and everything that was critical that he said that was necessary to find mr. trump's guilt had already been corroborated and proven think other witnesses. through exhibits, through you know, allen weisenburg's notes on the you know the actual

documents that were actually the bank records that michael cohen had to have. the notes about how the repayment would be made. all of these things. so i think that's you know going to be very, very important for him. the defense on the other hand is trying, is going to hammer michael cohen's credibility and try to suggest that michael cohen was acting completely independently to the extent there was a conspiracy here. it was a conspiracy between michael cohen and david pecker. and you know, keith davidson, but not donald trump. >> the michael cohen of acting roguely just doesn't even make sense as a human being. but again i'm not a lawyer. glen i want to go to you. because you wrote a piece this morning that had a lot of interesting pieces in it. their strategy seems to be around michael cohen's credibility. and you basically argued in your piece that, michael cohen admitting to his lies may help with the jury and credibility. right. he did admit to it pretty quickly. you also wrote about how you would handle the issue with the phone call. which was a big moment during

the last couple of weeks that cohen may have mixed up in terms of the date or content of it. tell us more about that. your strategy and the cohen piece of it. >> yeah, you know, i agree that they will hammer on michael cohen. but the good news is jen, the jurors don't check their common sense at the courtroom door. they bring it into the jury box. they bring it into the deliberation room and they're going the view the evidence through their sort of common sense lenses and i think one thing that will likely resinate with them is the question who benefited from this crime? certainly not michael cohen. he wasn't running for office. he didn't get elected president of the united states. in fact, it sounds like he had to sneak around and hide from his own wife the fact he was opening a home equity line of credit to make this you know corrupt hush money payment, why? to try to help donald trump win elected office. that is the kind of common sense argument that will resinate with the jury. with respect to the phone call,

i frankly chuckled myself as a former career prosecutor when i heard people you know swooning over just how damaging that was to michael cohen's credibility. think about this. michael cohen did not accurately remember whether he told donald trump in a phone call on a tuesday or a thursday, hey boss, i made the payment. now first of all, i would ask the jurors ladies and gentlemen, do you remember chapter and verse the time of each phone call eight years ago. you may remember the substance of a consequential call but you're not going remember the date and time and more importantly, as much of a cheapskate as donald trump is, do you really think he would have started writing $35,000 reimbursement checks if michael cohen hasn't told him, hey boss i made the payment. i want my money. these are common sense arguments that will resinate with the jury and i think the defense overplayed its hand in any number of ways.

including and maybe we'll get to this, insisting that donald trump had no sexual encounter with stormy daniels. boy is that going to come back to bite them. >> that was such a strange part of the, i think it was in the opening statement of todd blanch where they insisted on that. lisa let me ask you about that piece, because it is this credibility component, seems like it's a big weight for how both sides are thinking about the jury. as glen mentioned, there's the did he or did he not have sexual relations with stormy daniels. but there's also this credibility of michael cohen. i mean how do you play that if you're the prosecution. >> well, i think that would take stormy daniels separately from michael cohen. let's talk about michael cohen first. i think the way you play that is as mary was suggesting about minimizing cohen and really focus ing on cohen.

and chiefly through two people's testimony. david pecker and hicks. why would david pecker essentially throw him a thank you party. when he told him, invite whoever you want, this is a thank you for you. what else is donald trump thanking pecker to. two stories that could have had a devastating impact on his campaign in the wake of the access hollywood tape. in terms of michael cohen and his own credibility, the way you shore up that credibility is similar. you show all the ways in which, the documentation and other witnesses support cohen.

so for example, hope hicks by taking a dig at cohen, gave cohen more credibility. when she was asked, why she said because that wasn't the michael cohen i knew. the michael cohen i knew was the first person to take credit for anything. he was not a self-less and generous human being. that's the way to establish michael cohen's credibility. even taking a knock at him. >> mary, i feel everybody, this is the thing people are texting me. how long will this take? we don't know. everybody is becoming a lawyer. so one of the things i read about is the jury is not allowed to take the instructions with them. which i think might be standard in new york. we could certainly ask lisa that question or maybe you all know that answer. do they take notes, do they go in there, are there any tea

leaves you'll be reading during the deliberation. >> i think part of the reason they don't want to give people, playing lawyers themselves and interpreting that language. the court wants if there's a question about instructions, the court wants the jury to ask the judge the question. that way it's coming from the judge. they are going to be relying on memories. you will recall also, the judge allowed them to take notes at the beginning of the trial. another thing i think you will hear in the instructions, your notes are not evidence and your notes are not proof. use them as an aid to refresh your recollection. people should understand, people make mistakes in their notes and don't rely too much on that. sometimes once people have written something down. >> they take it as fact. >> they take it as fact right. but of course that's not the case. so those kind of instructions will be there for the jury. in terms of how long it takes, i mean there's just no way of knowing. what they don't need to do,

what you often start other federal trials with is elects a foreperson. we already have a foreperson because it's just the first juror selected in new york. they will go through, there are 34 counts, but the proof for each is going to be pretty similar right. the instructions will tell them what elements they have to prove in order to find the people had to prove in order for them to find guilty -- guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. in addition to the different alternatives you mentioned at the top of the hour about what the jury might do. there's another possibility too which is a mixed verdict. right. it is possible, i'm not suggesting they should do this or that the prosecution didn't prove its case for all 34 counts but they could view the first few counts relating to payments that were actually when the reimbursements were coming from the trump revocable trust. signed not by donald trump as president but signed by those still working for the trump organization. they could view home differently for example than the nine counts where donald

trump himself was signing from the white house for goodness sakes and where they've heard evidence that those invoices were sent personally to keith schiller to be brought over for him to sign. you could see some break down for some counts finding not guilty, or hanging on. not having all 12 agree. because an acquittal means all 12 have to agree. i find that heart. you could have some break downs. >> all things to watch. nobody set their time, we don't know. we don't know. we have to stick in a quick break. we'll have our conversation going on at the other end. a little reminder that donald trump's hush money trial isn't the only legal battle the former president is facing right now. we're following a significant order in another case. they're seeking a gag order against trump, we'll discuss

that, next. only purple's gel flex grid passes the raw egg test. no other mattress cradles your body and simultaneously supports your spine. memory foam doesn't come close. get your best sleep guaranteed. save up to $800 during our memorial day sale. visit purple.com or a store near you

an alternative to pills, voltaren is a clinically proven arthritis pain relief gel, which penetrates deep to target the source of pain with nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medicine directly at the source. voltaren, the joy of movement. craig here pays too much for verizon wireless. so he sublet half his real estate office... [ bird squawks loudly ] to a pet shop. meg's moving company uses t-mobile.

so she scaled down her fleet to save money. and don's paying so much for at&t, he's been waiting to update his equipment! there's a smarter way to save. comcast business mobile. you could save up to 70% on your wireless bill. so you don't have to compromise. powering smarter savings. powering possibilities. ed gutters. call leaffilter today. and never clean out clogged gutters again. leaffilter's technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good. guaranteed. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com.

donald trump started spreading a new and dangerous lie. in a new poston social media he accused the department of justice of having quote authorized the fbi to use deadly lethal force in the search of his home at mar-a- lago in 2022 which led to his indictment in 40 federal charges. he followed, joe biden was locked and loaded ready to take

me out and put my family in danger. that is obviously not true and borderline crazy statement. but that did not stop trump's allies from quickly getting behind that lie. margaret green said, they were going to kill donald trump. >> once again we find ourselves reinforcing this two tier justice system where we see a different standard for republicans and specifically a different standard for donald trump. there is a fear among conservatives that this weaponizing of the justice system. >> i mean tim scott, come on. they issued a statement in response to all of these bogus,

by the way dangerous claimless. -- claims. saying they followed protocol like they do for all search warrants. this is an important detail. donald trump was not even in florida at the time. attorney general garland even pushed back during a press conference on thursday. >> that allegation is false and it is extremely dangerous. the document that is being referred to in the allegation is the justice department's standard policy limiting the use of force. as the fbi advices, it is part of the standard operations plan for searches and in fact, it was even used in the consensual search of president biden's home. >> standard protocol. also used in this for president biden's home. important words there from mayor garland. another person who of course noticed all of this is special

council jack smith. smith is now asking for a new court order blocking donald trump from making statements that endanger law enforcement agents. cannon called trump's statements false and intimidating adding that they create a grossly mist leading impression. as trump is well aware, the fbi took extra care, even scheduling the search at mar-a- lago on a time when he and his family were aware. key point there. this statement is standard protocol. explain that. >> every law enforcement agency, every law enforcement officer when they're on an operation, whether it's executing an arrest warrant or searching a premises, they're allowed to use deadly force to protect the safety and lives of

others. so this was entirely routine. run of the mill as the attorney general and others said. but i'll tell you jen, the most infuriating part is when i read that 12 page filing from jack smith and there were two things that really jumped out at me. one, they coordinated with donald trump's attorneys in advance of the execution of the search warrant. i have to tell you, i think that's a mistake. because that gives targets of an investigation an opportunity to hide evidence. to destroy evidence, to i don't know, move boxes of classified documents from one place to another. not only that, they, they executed this search warrant at a time they knew donald trump and his family would be out of florida. they weren't even going to be in the state. so when donald trump posts that they were ready to shoot me, and they endangered my family. he knows that is an extraordinarily dangerous lie to tell because they weren't

even in the state and the fbi made sure they weren't going to be in the state. so when steve bannon said this was an assassination attempt, this would be the worse assassination attempt ever because the fbi made sure they were not going to be in the state. >> the threat and jack smith references this in his filing. the danger this causes. you heard garland talk about this. even if they're not lawyers they know trump wasn't even there at the time. that's an easy to understand fact. what the problem is, is people can watch tim scott, or watch marjory taylor green and think there was an assassination attempt on the former president when there clearly was not. talk a little bit about the

danger this rhetoric poses on the record. >> on the conditions of the trial that he not make these type of attacks. we know from all of the cases that have been brought that attacks on judges result in threats to judges. there's a person being prosecuted for threatening chuck in dc in a january 6 case. we know right after the mar-a- lago search warrant was executed there was an attack on the field office in cincinnati in retaliation for what the person who committed this had been you know consuming as some sort of unfair raid on mar-a- lago. we know that prosecutors have been threatened you know over e- mails by voice mail, with people coming to homes, we know people have gotten docked,

people had, hopehicks called on them and had them swatted. people like tim scott, people like marjory green and acting on them. now this is probably the most inflammatory of all. actually saying there was an attempted assassination which is completely false and crazy and what jack smith is rightfully concerned about is that is going to put a target on those law enforcement agents backs. >> it is so alarming. lisa, i mean. cannon has had moments where she's kind of exhibited some element of responsibility. other moments when she has not. what can she do here. what are the options should she want to take action? >> the first option for her is to do exactly what the motion asks. which is to modify donald trump's conditions of release. and jen i want to pause on that and differentiate that from your standard gag order. if he were to violate conditions and make some sort

of significant imminent and foreseeing threat to the law enforcement involved in this investigation, he could immediately revoke his release and impose conditions that would include putting him in jail, of pretrial intention. the very fact the government is asking to modify the conditions of release and not just a standard gag order, that's a big deal. then again we have judge cannon who has not been particularly expeditious in ruling on even the motions to dismiss in front of her. i think she sits on this for a while and then likely denied it. at which point jack smith can elevate this to the 11th circumstance question. a denial of a request to modify conditions of release which is appealable in the legal system. that's probably the reason why they have asked for it the way that they have. >> not particularly expeditious. that's a great way of describing it, lisa. thank you all so much. i know you will all be working very hard explaining this to all of us all week. so appreciate you joining us.

donald trump heads to the libertarian convention and gets booed loudly. we'll talk about when we come back. ed gutters. call leaffilter today. and never clean out clogged gutters again. leaffilter's technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good. guaranteed. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com.

shop etsy until june 16th and get up to 30% off guaranteed. father's day gifts that go beyond the classic go-to. save on personalized gear, and other things dads dig. when you want a one-of-a-kind gift to show him he's #1. etsy has it. when it comes to your wellness routine, the details are the difference. dove men body wash, with plant based moisturizers in harmony with our bodies for healthier feeling skin. all these details add up to something greater. new dove men plant powered body wash.

everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it's a great product. it's going to help a lot of patients. over the weekend, donald trump made his case through the libertarian party why they

should support him. and let's say that he did not get the reception he's accustomed to by the maga. >> the libertarian party should vote for trump as the president of the united states. oh that's nice, that's nice. only if you want to win. only if you want to win. maybe you don't want to win. maybe you don't want to win. thank you deroy. thank you. no only do that if you want to win. if you want to lose don't do that. keep getting your 3% every four years. >> antagonizing your audience. it's not typically the most effective of strategies in a political campaign but there we go. surprise, surprise. trump did not get the libertarian endorsement or the nomination. they ended up nominating their own candidate as they end up

doing. trump ended up getting a total of six write in votes which was less than 1%. that is a clear attempt by trump to ink out a few more voted wherever they can find them. back in 2020, the libertarian candidate received more than 50,000 votes in the hotly contested state of arizona. trump only lost that state by just over 10,000 votes. so, from the trump campaign's perspective, according to some of these voters could maybe swing the election or put a dent in it. could maybe flip a battleground state. one of the ones they narrowly lost a few years ago. what's also notable is who the campaign is trying to target. they may want to take a closer look at a block of voters inside their own party. that chunk of republican parties who still vote for nikki haley over trump.

even though trump sealed the campaign nomination months ago. okay, tim. antagonizing your audience not ideal strategy. i don't know if anything was prizing but what did you make of the reaction at the libertarian convention. >> what stood out to me is standing in front of a sign that said become ungovernable. as you pointed out it make sense he would try to reach out for these folks. these third party groups on the margin where going to matter. joe biden will have to reach out to the green party vote. it's not a donald trump skill set responding to negative feed

back as a mega nacissist that's not his strength. it was played out very poorly. >> there's really nothing more valuable than a candidates time. john palmeri, i want to ask you a follow up to the question i asked tim, yes it makes sense to reach out to these voters. there are other things you could do with his time. maybe reaching out to some of these haley type voters. maybe something else. what did you make of this decision and, they didn't seem to know what they were walking into. that's the thing that sits with me. >> the former president of the libertarian party was on morning joe on thursday and friday. he predicted what happened. he's going to get a bad reception, he's not going get the endorsement. i don't even think that guy thought he would only get six voteless. -- votes. it's not that he chose to do this but also has not done a lot of other campaigning. he was in the bronx last week.

>> new jersey. >> new jersey, people are like, oh it's new jersey. or he could go to philadelphia. an actual battleground state. it tells me the campaign thought they're worried about rfk. they think this is a good move to try to get those voters over. but then also, i think he just won't appeal to haley voters. i think he's too upset about it. because you are correct and that, that you know do both things. sure appeal to libertarians but also try to appeal to haley voters and he seems to not want to do that. >> no, doesn't. i think rfk also got more votes than him at this libertarian convention. so not sure even that part worked. david, trump has to expand. the votes are very tight. trump is up in a number of places but he has to expand his base of support. if he's not going after the haley voters. he's not going after the libertarians effectively. is he just assuming people are going to come back to him.

what's the game plan here? >> look, i think negative partisanship is more likely to put people in trump's camp than anything trump actually can run on. he could run on chaos and being a wrecking ball again. but a lot of people that's exactly why they don't want trump. that's why the haley voter is a haley voter and not a trump voter. when nikki haley says i hope donald trump will do more outreach. i'm not sure it will work. because what they're reminded about donald trump they don't actually like him. the two opportunities to expand his base. first is negative partisanship. what nikki haley's move showed us is the level of hatred to joe biden and false information, and conspiracies on the environment and the world stage,, that is deeply rooted in republican voters. the second wild card is the vp

pick. i mean, look, mike pence in 2016 was necessary for a specific reason. you can bring a marco rubio to the trump ticket. some of these haley voters say, i can see policy. this is a republican party i remember. a lot of haley voters will still vote for joe biden. but the vp pick may matter for the former president. >> it'll be like the first time ever that it mattered but maybe, maybe, in terms of winning an election maybe. let me ask you about verdell. he's the one that had the idea of this. he wants to be secretary of state which seems bizarre that he's driving some of the campaign strategy here. i don't, but what strikes you

about it? >> it strikes me as my holiday weekend is definitely over when somebody says let's talk about rick cornell that is a downer. look, rick cornell is a very unstable guy. you just have to look another his twitter feed. he has a long history of sending out deeply personal, masoganistic. two people at top of his campaign, besides that it seems everybody he talks to is an insane person and a conspiracy ist. i think grenell tries to bridge the two camps. super crazy and a republican strategist who knows what they're doing who's going along

to get along with the crazy. i think that's why he plays an important role and i think he wants to be a leading foreign policy advocate for trump, or apointee if he gets in there. >> it opportunity seem like i ruined your memorial day because you had a lot of points. >> i am just getting started. >> be careful what you offer because we may get in there. there's a lot of factors, rick cornell, libertarians booing him. calling it the third, there's so many crazy things happening. but if you're the biden team, the polls which may just be so tight till the end, they don't seem to be shifting, right. what are you hoping for if you're them? >> i think that they, what i saw that was really important is even when, their argument. there's so much to pick from. you have to pick your lane and any argument you make has to latter up to an overarching

message. for example, when the trump campaign posted that video. biden made a video responded to it. he didn't end it with trump is a fascist, he said i am fighting for you. everything is laddering up to that message. there's a lot of voters opened to him but you have to have a unifying message that is breaking through every time you're making an argument against trump. otherwise it's going to get lost in the wash which is you know something i really worry about. >> yeah, who am i fighting for feels like the core t-shirt. it was the 2012 message too. tim miller, molly, david jolly,

anne jolly. thanks to see you all. coming up world leaders are condemning an israeli air strike that killed dozens of displaced palestinians in rafal last night. we'll tell you what benjamin netanyahu was saying and what the u.s. could do in response. we're back after a quick break k i got this $1,000 camera for only $41 on dealdash. dealdash.com, online auctions since 2009. this playstation 5 sold for only 50 cents. this ipad pro sold for less than $34. and this nintendo switch, sold for less than $20. i got this kitchenaid stand mixer for only $56. i got this bbq smoker for 26 bucks. and

shipping is always free. go to dealdash.com right now and see how much you can save.

according to health officials in gaza, dozens of

people including women, and children were killed. civilians were sheltering in makeshift tents as the fire burned the camp. the israeli military said it killed two senior hamas leaders in the strike. this is all part of stepped up attacks on rafah but the israeli military. just days ago the united nations top court has ordered israel to stop its attacks on rafah. a spokesperson by the national security council said the devastating images, following the ideas that killed dozens of innocent palestinians. israel must take every step possible. we're actively addressing the idf to assess what happened and understand that the idf is conducting an investigation. benjamin netanyahu has called the strike a tragic incident.

adding we are investigating the case and will draw a conclusion because this is our policy. school of international service she's also the author of politics on substack. i've written those statements before. and clearly there's an investigation. they'll look into it. the photos and images are. >> they speak for themselves. >> they're devastating. >> if you were sitting at your old job, what would you be pushing blinken what they should be discussing to change the behavior. >> if you had been talking to your former colleagues over there, president biden has been laying out certain things, about rafah. don't go into rafah. then, if you're going to go into rafah be limiting. or i'm going to hold off the

aid. the humanitarian efforts were so bad. at every point, prime minister benjamin netanyahu has ignored. >> plowing forward. >> i think now you're hearing the discussion. even if we wanted to put the humanitarian suffering, the deaths, the aid all of that aside for a second and not even focus on israel and whether this is in their best interest. when you see the isolation that israel is facing and in the wake of this attack, france, germany, italy, the united nations, the isolation is deepening. now egypt one of its only allies you know that it has a peace treaty with is also you see a lot of tension on that border right now. >> one of their soldiers was killed. >> and they joined this icj case about whether it's a genocide or not.

we put that aside. is this all in israel's best interest? i think the u.s. has to make a hard choice, is that with weapons, with diplomacy. >> some of it is holding back of the military. which they have done in the past but it's significant when they have done that >> i don't think that the u.s. is ever going to stop aid that it would help itself defend itself against iran or hamas. you can condition them for very specific things that they can do and what they can't do. and i think you're going to have to see president biden maybe step it up in terms of

the conditions themselves. because clearly he's saying again, this is not in your interests. and what ally that continues to give israel or any other country aid would we be giving ukraine aid if they're basically. >> prime minister benjamin netanyahu may be deciding it's in his personal political. >> he needs this war. he needs this war. i saw mike johnson, the house speaker was going to the israeli national day the other day speak on the whole idea of the israel independence and invited prime minister netanyahu. i went to hear the speech and i heard a lot of israelis talking ant, netanyahu has to go. netanyahu has to go. and he said i'm not going to say israel, i'm going to say the netanyahu government. because they think it's the netanyahu government policies

that are really against israel's best interest. and now you're hearing the public saying that too. >> he referred to the strike as a mishap. he has to acknowledge given the deaths and the international community. is there anything you read into that as far as a potential change or we should expect that we're going to proceed into rafah. >> no, they didn't even miss a beat. right. you know, sorry. this is collateral. they're sorry, i'm sure they're not glad it happened. but in their view, they're going to keep plowing ahead. i don't see short of something international action or particularly u.s. action that would actually put the brakes on this. israel is going to do what it wants and it's continuing to get i'm going to say mixed messages from the biden administration about what it will accept and what it won't accept. originally it said don't go

into rafah. then it said go to rafah but do it in a limited way. it's going in a limited way but still we saw what happened today. even though it was not technically in a safe zone. there's really nowhere right now for them to go. short of israel putting them on all on a bus and putting them some where. i think you're going to continue to see this until there's some limits put on the campaign. >> lots of horrific images. thank you so much for joining me on a memorial day. i appreciate it very much. up next a current president, former president and two very different memorial day messages. i'll explain after a very quick break.

we're trying to save the planet with nuggets. because we need the planet. and we also need nuggets. impossible. we're solving the meat problem with more meat. announcer what if you could whiten your teeth by simply brushing your teeth? now you can with smileactives, the teeth whitening breakthrough that safely gets your teeth white and keeps them white every day just by brushing your teeth. christine i never thought

that whitening my teeth could be so easy. i just put the gel on the brush, the toothpaste on it, brush and i can see my white teeth. announcer simply add smileactives to any toothpaste, and our patented polyclean technology activates into a powerful micro foam that penetrates into the enamel surface to safely lift and remove stains. robert you need a simple way to withen your teeth without strips, without trays, without going to the dentist. and it was about time that a product was developed that you would be able to do that with just brushing. announcer and now smileactives is even better. with new pro whitening gel with 33% greater whitening power. clinically shown to whiten teeth faster up to eight shades. 100% of users saw whiter teeth on food stains, coffee and wine stains, even on veneers, crowns and dentures. paul i eat the blueberries, i drink the coffee and i know that smileactives will keep my teeth white every day. janell if you could do something so easy like smileactives to take yellow teeth to white teeth, why wouldn't you? announcer why spend hundreds

of dollars for whitening treatments at the dentist, when now you can whiten your teeth with new smileactives pro whitening gel every time you brush your teeth. call or go to smileactives.com and for a limited time get new pro whitening gel for just $24.95. order in the next 5 minutes and buy one get one absolutely free for just $24.95. that's two for one and save 58%. we■ll even include free shipping. get your teeth whiter, guaranteed, or return it within 60 days for your money back. i smile every day now. the difference is literally night and day. so now i'm always smiling or cheesing because now my teeth are much wither. announcer this offer is not available in stores, so call or click now before the special buy one, get one free offer goes away.

we all know memorial day is a solemn day, but donald trump is not focused on any of that. is focused on himself. he posted a long-winded rant earlier today that set in., happy memorial day to all, including the human scum that is working so hard to destroy our once great country. thank you veterans, for your service, is not what he said. president biden honor the fallen. he participated in a wreath laying ceremony at the tomb of the unknown soldier earlier today along with kamala harris and lloyd austin. he then spoke in the memorial amphitheater, focusing on those who gave the ultimate sacrifice.

>> we gather at this sacred place, in this solemn moment, to remember, to honor the sacrifice of the hundreds of thousands of women and men who have given their lives for this nation. each one, literally, a link in a chain of honor stretching back to our founding days. each one, bound by common commitment, not to a place, not to a person, not to a president, but to an idea unlike any idea in human history, the idea of the united states of america. >> president biden, of course, has a personal connection to the state. his son, beau did not die in

battle but he did by of cancer after being exposed to toxic burn pits while he served our country which is one of the reasons president biden has been adamant about helping other veterans exposed to toxic exposure. he announced a new law that he champions. the ninth anniversary of beau's death is coming up later this week. we have another full hour of coverage. don't go anywhere. coverage. don't go anywhere. and then release smells into your air. eww. you need febreze fabric refresher. its formula is proven to deliver... ... long-lasting odor fighting power, so you can enjoy long-lasting freshness - even hours after spraying. the more everyone sprays... ... the fresher your whole home stays. febreze fabric refresher. ♪ ♪ welcome to the roots your of our legacy.ys. where excellence, comfort, and electricity... are forever in bloom. welcome to beyond.

the mercedes-maybach eqs suv. he had to have seventeen teeth removed. he had a bypass surgery because he ate a - he ate a sock. get paid back up to ninety percent on unexpected vet bills, use any vet, and cancel any time. fetch pet insurance. get your free quote today.

a verdict is coming soon in the end of the manhattan election interference trial. how could a conviction or an

acquittal change the presidential race, if at all? the conventional wisdom is that american voters largely have their minds made up about trump . and, his approval numbers have not really changed much through this trial, not even on days when testimony against him was pretty devastating. while there are signs that a conviction might peel off some trump voters, one thing is unlikely to change in the outcome of this trial, trumps reaction to it. according to two trump watchers, quote, if the past is any guide, even with a full acquittal, mr. trump will be angry and vengeful and will direct attacks against anyone he receives -- perceives to be responsible for his prosecution. no surprise there. if you've paid attention so far, his re-election has been basically a vengeance to her day-to-day in which he likens his trials and tribulations to what his supporters feel and

promises them revenge. >> in 2016, i declared, i am your voice. today, i had, i am your warrior. i am your justice and for those who have been wronged and betrayed, i am your retribution. i am your retribution. >> i am your retribution. that was at cpac just last year and that message is such a big part of his campaign and rallies every time he does them, but it goes even deeper in trump's case. remember in 2020 when the republican senate majority voted to acquit trump and his first impeachment, the one over his phone call seeking dirt on biden over the ukrainians? that next day, trump was pretty fiery, waving newspaper headlines and bragging about the verdict and where did he do that? it a national prayer breakfast. this is what you get with a favorable trump verdict in manhattan. an acquittal or a hung jury is just absolute gold for trump

and it will resonate with a lot of people. so, what is the biden campaign doing to prepare for that possibility? i mean, it is delicate and difficult, a very tricky balance to strike. with some democrats saying president biden should not be seen to be gloating with biden's verdict, people familiar with his reading tell political he will break his silence and trumps trial after the verdict and will do so from the white house. a very delicate and difficult balance to strike with conviction or without it, those close to biden expect he will have one message above all, the legal system worked in the process should be respected but how do you convince enough americans to have deep respect for the process when the republican says the process is the deep state working against him? anthony was director of the

public affairs office. also here with us is msnbc political analyst, molly. and, a staff writer for the atlantic. i'm going to start with you because you're sitting with me on a memorial day. it is a tricky balance for president biden. he's in institutionalist. he does not love to get engaged in talking about the legal process, even if there is a conviction or an acquittal. people may have a higher expectation for what's going to come out of his mouth but what should he say? >> i think he has two challenges right now, complacency and amnesia. from the electorate. people are just not paying attention right now either to this campaign or to this race, so if you are joe biden, you want to use this moment to draw a contrast between yourself and

between donald trump what you want to do so in a way that is respectful of the process. you have to choose a setting that is both sober, so this should be from the white house. it should not be out on the campaign trail, but he also has to pull in the broader apparatus here. this is not just incumbent upon him to draw the sharp contrast. there is a real mac here for moderate republicans, for people who are pro-democracy, pro-constitution to stand up and speak out, and i tend to believe there are so many people who are silent right now , and their silence is complicit so it's not just on him to stand up and speak out and draw this contrast. this is a moment for democrats and republicans, and moderates alike, who love our country, regardless of the outcome. >> there is like a defensive institutions moment here because the campaign is not that far away. molly, let me turn this to you. there is different polling that suggests that it could matter. it could turn some people if trump is convicted. we don't of course, know what the jury is going to do.

i think there is a question of resources, time, and energy. biden is going to speak to this but then what happens after that? there are so many other issues. abortion-rights is a huge one of them. the economy and who you are fighting for. what do you think -- there is also satisfying the base. there's a lot of complacency out there. what is the level or amount biden should talk about this? how should he talk about this in your view? >> look, trump is running against american institutions. part of his autocracy plate is that they are not coming for me. this is not a criminal trial about my payments to a woman i had relations with. in fact, it's about you, so he's running against the rule of law, the legal world, you know, our norms in this country, so biden has this opportunity here to say, you know, this is how the law works and if this jury of his peers

find him guilty, that is how justice is supposed to work and if the prosecution does not meet the threshold, that, too, is how these institutions are supposed to work. remember, trump has attacked democracy on january 6 and now, he is attacking the justice system but we know for a fact, what will heard says always rings in my ear. he said this man is running for president because he doesn't want to go to jail. >> well, yes. that feels accurate. let me ask you. you have spent so much time covering the republican party. there was an abc news poll earlier this month that said most supporters have their minds made up. as many as a fifth said they would withhold their support if he is convicted. there is a range of different trials and things. what sticks to me here is that he had an affair, allegedly,

with a former adult film star while he was married, of course. i mean, but you've written a whole book about it. do you think that could move any evangelicals if he is convicted or they are pretty much stuck where they are and if not them, who do you think could be moved in the republican party by a conviction? >> you know, i would love to say that i thought you know, a conviction here would lead to a mass exodus of social conservatives or evangelical christians. i want to be clear i've spent a lot of time on the campaign trail interviewing a lot of these people and a lot of them are sincere people of faith who struggle with supporting donald trump on a character basis but they've made their peace with him and made up their minds to support him and i think the problem with this trial as a potential needle mover is that there just is not enough new information for people who have already over the last two election cycles, brought themselves to pull the lever for donald trump. they already know he's a womanizer. they know he's not a man of

great faith or integrity. they also, a lot of them, no he's corrupt. if you remember in the 2016 campaign, part of his message was, i've been down in the muck with these kind of corrupt establishment people. i know how they operate in now, i'm going to do this for you, right? so i think that while certainly a lot of the details coming out of this trial are not flattering and i'm sure there are a lot of trump supporters who pull back and are chagrined by this stuff, i just don't know if it is enough to make them change their minds about him, because so much of it is already baked in. >> i mean, one of the things we have seen the trump team do is throw back accusations that are true about him on his opponents, not just with president biden, with others.

it is this whole corrupt justice system, the biden crime family. you and i both grew up in public service where you are trained basically, do not talk about the specifics of criminal trials or legal cases, but it does feel like there needs to be some kind of fighting back on this. what does that look like? listen, they have got to play it straight but they have to go back to what i said, sharpen the contrast, understanding what's going to happen on the other side. if there is conviction on this case, trump understands the road to the white house goes through the courthouse and we've seen this explicitly. you and i use words for a living. we see this explicitly in his language where he says, and you played some of this leading into the segment, i am your retribution, right? he says, i'm only getting indicted because of you and i suspect we will see more of that type of language if there is a criminal conviction here. so, what do you do if you are the biden campaign? you begin. you go where i started. you play it straight and bring in the broader apparatus to help drive home this contrast.

you and i know the first thing we did together was the kerry campaign in 2004. what we saw then is that george w. bush, we saw barack obama beat mitt romney and we saw donald trump please because the trump campaign was a referendum on them. independent presidential campaigns, incumbent presidents tend to win as the race is framed as a contract between two competing visions, two distinct ideologies. that's what the biden campaign needs to do even more of, regardless of what happens in this case. >> i think for the biden campaign, they are thinking about the overall electorate, how to get more votes, but is there a risk they are fully aware of that if he doesn't say something that the base of the party feels a strong enough when this case is resolved, that people will feel upset, disappointed, even more complacent?

how do you strike that balance of you or them? >> well, look, i think that biden has done well as a protector of institutions, like important institutions, like democracy. he should run as that, the keeper of democracy. it is a flawed system, but it works and i would say look, i still think if you look at these polls -- i just wrote a long thing on the polls and they really do -- they take a lot of these voters that -- trump wins a lot of these voters that are not traditional voters. they may show up. there the voters that showed up in 2016 but don't show up for other elections, so i actually think that group of voters may be moved. they may be slightly less likely to come out. i'm not talking about the trump base. i'm talking about the number of people biden needs to win in

swing states and some of this people are just nontraditional voters, so it's not clear to me what will make a difference, but i think biden certainly has an opportunity here to take back the narrative, and change where things are going. >> yes, that's interesting. it could be an interesting moment for them. we will see. mckay, you wrote the biography on mitt romney. there are so many good pieces in that biography. you know the differences in the republican party. could you see other conservatives taking more of a mitt romney approach? i'm asking this not just about the outcome of the trial, but things like trump suggesting there was an assassination attempt against him. things that are just false and ludicrous, dangerous. there are attacks on our institution. do you have any sense that there is anything that may push a bigger movement of some of these more responsible republicans to come out? >> something i think about all

the time that mitt romney told me is that when he was first elected to the senate, he was surprised by how many of his colleagues privately agreed. he talked about how republican senators would sidle up to him in private and say, i'm so glad you're out there saying what you are saying about trump, holding him accountable. you know, i obviously can't do this but i'm glad you're out there doing it, and it drove him insane because you know, he thought he was going to get to the senate and rally like minded republicans against the spread of trumpism. that obviously did not happen. what i will say is that if that were to happen, the scenario would be that you know, this year, we have a not quite record number, but an unusually large number of retirements and resignations among republicans in both the house and the senate. i do wonder if you will see republicans on their way out the door, not worrying about re- election anymore, deciding you know what? i'm family just to say what i think about all of this, and maybe get a little chance to rewrite their legacies but also, i think a lot of them

have been spending years with pent-up anguish about what's happening to the party, and i wonder if you might see a few of them come out and say what they are thinking. >> let me just tell you, their silence is complicity. it's past time for these people to stand up and speak out. i mean, the democracy is at stake. what are they waiting for? not just the country, but the future of their party. >> thank you also -- all for joining me on this memorial day. coming up, cut all of tom's attacks come back to haunt him when it comes time for sentencing? two people who have been following this trial join me next after a quick break. joine next after a quick break.

"bring rings to beach wedding"? fedex presents: tall tales of true deliveries. ( ♪♪ ) (gasp, crowd cheering) just another day on the job. we did this for love. see what we can do for your business. fedex.

a slow network is no network for business. that's why more choose comcast business. and now, we're introducing ultimate speed for business —our fastest plans yet. we're up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds... at no additional cost. it's ultimate speed for ultimate business. don't miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today!

right now, donald trump is doing exactly what you would expect him to be doing before the conclusion of his first criminal trial. he is attacking everyone in the case, including judge juan merchan. he targeted judge merchan in a number of rage post over this weekend and as these attacks continue, it's important to keep in mind that in the minds of every credible expert, judge merchan has handled this case in a highly professional manner. in the mind of trump, he is correct. that's the type of thing we've come to expect from a criminal defendant but most criminal

defendants tend to refrain from attacking judges. how might the judge take these attacks? here is what former u.s. attorney barbara mcquaid told political. remorse and the need for respect for the law are typically factors the judge takes into consideration when imposing sentences. trumps repeated violation of the gag order consistently demonstrate disrespect for the law. both reporters have been attending this trial and covering it closely. i just read a statement from barbara mcquaid and for those who are trying to understand how trumps bad behavior could impact the sentencing and i always like to say we don't know what the jury is going to do, how do you see it? could that impact the sentencing? >> i don't think it will, as

much as this judge, on a personal level, probably is not a fan of donald trump, that's probably an understatement at this point, i think he has to look at certain factors for sentencing and donald trump saying nasty things about the judge personally is probably not going to be a factor the judge will look at. the judge is going to look at the serious nature of the conduct, his going to look at deterrents, what is it going to take to make sure this guy doesn't offend again and do the same kind of thing. general deterrence for others. he's going to look at, as barber said, violations of the gag order and promoting respect for the law but under the gag order, donald trump is allowed to attack the judge. he's allowed to attack the process. he's not allowed to attack jurors and witnesses, so those violations of the gag order absolutely i think the judge will consider, and the lack of remorse. as a general matter, donald trump has been fighting this case, which is his right, but if he is convicted and

sentenced, a lack of remorse really is something judges look at, so if he keeps this up and keeps attacking the process after a conviction yes, i agree that is something the judge would look at in sentencing. >> what about you? not to prejudge what the outcome is going to be but you've also been covering and watching this judge closely. anything you are watching or think in terms of consequences or repercussions of transactions? >> yes. i think kristy is right. the previous gag order violations probably are something judge merchan is going to take into account. he clearly took it very seriously. trump is been held in contempt of court 10 previous times and it is notable, as well, that while trump has recently been attacking the judge and alan bragg, which he is allowed to do under the gag order, there have been times recently in court that he has gone out and not by name, but by

implication, has been attacking members of alvin bragg's staff, which the gag order does in fact prohibit, specifically matthew, who used to work for the department of justice and trump has, by implication, suggested there is someone from joe biden's d.a. who is running this trial. however, prosecutors who have the burden of filing a motion to hold trump in contempt, have not taken the steps to file that motion. i think probably because we are coming up toward the end of this case, they want to keep things moving and don't want to throw another wrench in the machine by bringing up another violation, but i think judge merchan is probably taking notice of these various public comments trump continues to say in apparent violation of the gag order. >> we are near the end here.

we are closer to the end than we were a few weeks ago of this trial, at least. tomorrow, closing arguments start. in your view, what does the prosecution need to do and anything you will be watching for? >> i worked with alvin bragg when we were prosecutors and one common technique in closing arguments, it's not always done, but then a lot of the time and i think it would be good for this case, is to really point out for the jury what is actually in dispute, and what is not in dispute, so they can really focus on the issues that are before them to decide and in this case, there is so much for the prosecution to point to, it's actually not in dispute. things like ami, working with michael kahn to catch and kill these karen mcdougal and stormie mcdaniel stories in the planting of negative stories against donald trump's opponents and positive stories in favor of donald trump. that's something no one is disputing in the case, the

access hollywood tape is not in dispute. the fact that michael cohen was discussing the karen mcdougal payment with donald trump, that's on the recording. they cannot dispute that the recording says what it says and that the payments to stormy daniels were delayed, that michael cohen made those payments after having to take out a home equity line of credit on his house and then setting up the shell company to do it, that whole secret mechanism is not in dispute. the fact that donald trump signed nine of the checks to michael cohen and that there were invoices attached to those checks, not in dispute. they are, i think, going to point out all of the tweets after the fbi raided michael cohen before saying don't flip and then after he made comments that donald trump directed about the payments and for the financial benefit of donald trump then all of a sudden, the tweets donald trump put out that were attacking michael cohen, it's been a pressure

campaign before hand and then when he flips, attacking him. all of that, there is no dispute that that happened, and so much of that is corroborating michael cohen story and the stories of the other witnesses about what happened here, that these payments to stormy daniels were made at the direction of and for the benefit of donald trump. i mean, there are so many details, as kristy just outlined so well, that we knew, and we know or cannot expect the part of the defense strategy will be to continue to attack michael cohen's credibility. what will you be watching for in their closing arguments tomorrow? >> i certainly think in closing arguments it's all coming up:, so to speak. a big strategy of the defense is going to be attacking cohen's credibility on various fronts. they will attack his recollection. they're going to bring up this moment on cross-examination about that october 24th phone call in which he originally

testified that he spoke to trump about the stormy daniels hush money payment on that call. the defense trying to suggest there was another reason cohen could've made that call. they are also going to attack his motives. they're going to say he has profited off of making podcasts and media appearances about trump but beyond attacking michael cohen, i think we are also going to hear a lot about causation. they are going to focus on that key element because the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that trump called -- cause these false entries in the books and toward that end i think they're going to say there were other people who were involved in this who were the real causes. for example, they could point to allen weisselberg and to the fact that allen weisselberg,

the trump organization cfo, did not testify at this trial. i think we also will hear a lot about intent, intention of fraud or intent to cover up of the crime. they are going to focus on the fact that it is a lot of circumstantial, not direct evidence of intent here. those are some of the things i'm looking for but i do think cohen's credibility will take the forefront of the strategy for defense. >> before i let you go, kristy, after the closing statement arguments we will get jury instructions from the judge. what are you looking for in those? >> to this point that anna made about the causation, i'm very focused on that piece in terms of the falsification of business records. we know that donald trump was not in the systems of the trump organization going through general ledger entries but you can cause somebody else to make those entries, and that makes

you guilty, as well, if you did it indirectly or approved somebody doing it or requested somebody to do it in the prosecutors wanted instruction saying that well, causing someone to do it can be done if it's a reasonably foreseeable circumstance that those business interests would be made, given that you approve the reimbursement scheme as a whole, and juan merchan seemed reluctant to give that

instruction when they were having arguments about this in court. we have not seen the final version to know if that is in there so there is one thing i will be looking for because there is really not in the direct evidence he instructed anyone to make particular entries in terms of the general ledger or the invoices. that is what i will be looking for. if they don't get it, i suspect prosecutors will say they were working in concert with one another and so once he gave that instruction, you know, he is essentially an accessory to this happening because he approved the case so i think they'll get around it but it would certainly be better if they got that instruction. we will see if they get it. >> a lot of things to watch. different advice and views. thank you both so much for joining me on a memorial day. appreciate it. coming up, donald trump said he would be telling us about his position on the abortion bill in one week. that was a month ago. we will talk about what his silence says and what's been happening on the state level in the meantime. but first, brand-new reporting on the upside down flag to justice samuel alito's home. we are back after a quick break. break. no, no, no, no. [ gasps ] [ indistinct chatter ] [ sigh ] let's just wait them out. the volkswagen atlas with three rows of seating for seven. everyone wants a ride. [ snoring ] ok, get in. [ speaking minionese ] yippee! and see "despicable me 4" in theaters july 3rd. rated pg.

if you have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's disease... put it in check with rinvoq... a once—daily pill. when symptoms tried to take control, i got rapid relief... and reduced fatigue with rinvoq. check. when flares kept trying to slow me down... i got lasting steroid—free remission... with rinvoq. check. and when my doctor saw damage,... rinvoq helped visibly reduce damage of the intestinal lining. check. for both uc and crohn's: rapid symptom relief... lasting steroid—free remission... and visibly reduced damage. check. check. and check. rinvoq can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections and blood clots, some fatal; cancers, including lymphoma and skin; heart attack, stroke, and gi tears occurred. people 50 and older with a heart disease risk factor

have an increased risk of death. serious allergic reactions can occur. tell your doctor if you are or may become pregnant. put uc and crohn's in check... and keep them there with rinvoq. ask your gastroenterologist about rinvoq and learn how abbvie can help you save. you can't leave without cuddles. but, you also can't leave covered in hair. with bounce pet, you can cuddle and brush that hair off. bounce, it's the sheet.

the new york times published two stories about flags with right wing symbolism flying outside of two of justice samuel alito's residences. according to the washington post, on the day of joe biden's inauguration, a reporter for the paper and counted the leaders coming out of their house. martha and alito was visually upset by his presence,

demandend quote, get off my property. as the reporter described the information he was seeking, mrs. alito yelled, it's an international sign of distress. the justice then intervened and erected his wife into his car. he denied the flag was hung upside down as a political protest and said it stemmed from a neighborhood dispute. she then got out of the car and shouted, ask them what they did. after that she brought out a novelty flight, the type that would typically decorate a garden. she hoisted up the flagpole there, is that better, shield? wow that does not answer where that was the response to a neighborhood dispute. the top two democrats in the senate judiciary committee are seeking to meet with justice john roberts and asking him to ensure justice alito recuses himself from the two january 6 cases before the supreme court which include trumps presidential immunity claim. more on this after a quick break. on this after a quick break.

♪♪ some people just know that the best rate for you is a rate based on you, with allstate. because there's a right way to. stop! and the speed limit definitely isn't. 700 million mph. so why would you pay a rate based on. a terrible boss with a terrible haircut! save with, ooh. save with drivewise and get a rate based on you. you're in good hands with allstate when your gut is out of balance, your body gives you signs. so if you're frustrated with occasional bloating... ♪♪ [stomach noises] gas... or abdominal discomfort... help stop the frustration and start taking align every day. align probiotic was specifically designed

by gastroenterologists to help relieve your occasional digestive upsets. so you can enjoy life. when you feel the signs, it's time to try align. (music) have heart failure with unresolved symptoms? it may be time to see the bigger picture. heart failure and seemingly unrelated symptoms, like carpal tunnel syndrome, shortness of breath, and irregular heartbeat could be something more serious

called attr-cm, a rare, underdiagnosed disease that worsens over time. sound like you? call your cardiologist, and ask about attr-cm. dangerous ladders. gutter muck. yuck. no wonder you hate cleaning your gutters. good thing there's leaffilter. our patented filter technology keeps leaves and debris out of your gutters forever. guaranteed. call 833- leaffilter to get started. and get the permanent gutter solution that ends clogs for good. they took the time to answer all of our questions. they really put us at ease. end clogged gutters for good. call 833.leaf.filter, or visit leaffilter.com today.

one supreme court justice, two controversial flags and so many questions to answer. you've read a lot of the pieces i and my team have read about this that have kind of stuck out to us to help us understand it. has anything surprised you about all of this reporting about the flags appearing different places and alito's behavior in this way? >> not just no, but hell know.

alito is going to vote for whoever the republican is. he doesn't really have a worldview yawned republicans should win, so the fact that he is now putting flags up that advertise the thing he's done from the bench for the last 18 years that he's done on the supreme court is not a surprise at all. >> to your point, it is not just the flags. the flags are had scratches. they are offensive. his wife's behavior is a little strange, but it is about the overlap with his worldview and how he operates so as you look at how you have covered the cases in the courts, what other ways that he has been voting or ruling should concern people? >> going to dispute your were

there. he's not a reliable conservative voice. he is a reliable republican voice. clarence thomas is a reliable conservative voice and sometimes his values laid him in a different direction than where the conservative party wants him to go. alito will go wherever the gop wants him to go in any case. there is empirical data on this. there is a study that looked at outstanding questions about whether a party has jurisdiction to be in federal court in the first place. 100% of the time if it is a conservative litigant, he votes that they have standing. 100% of the time if it's a left- leaning litigant he votes no. he's not a conservative, is just a partisan. >> definitely. correct me anytime, by the way. let me ask about john roberts, because there are all these hopes democrats have about john roberts doing the right thing, as many would say. there are a couple members of the senate who want to meet with him about requesting alito recuse. how would that go and how would that work if roberts wanted to

do that? can you force him to? >> not really. the one power the chief has over the other justices is when he is in the majority, he signs opinions, so if he were really mad at alito he could assign him a lot of crappy opinions that no one wants to work on but he can't force alito to recuse. realistically here, there is one point of accountability, and that is the election. alito wants his republican party to win. if trump wins, there will be many more alito's on the supreme court and if biden wins then he has the opportunity to at least dilute alito's vote by appointing people who are very unlike him. >> right, unpack this a little bit. some of the supreme court justices are older and likely to retire by age in the next four year term, so that could mean trump could appoint two, maybe more? >> yes.

alito is 74. thomas, i believe, is 75. roberts and sotomayor are both pushing 70 and sotomayor is a type one diabetic, so the possibility that there will be at least one, and possibly as many as four vacancies in the next term is pretty high, and if trump gets a start, especially if he gets to the point of replacing someone like roberts or sotomayor who is an obama appointee, then we are looking at extraordinarily right-wing court. what i think is going to be different if there is a second trump term, from the first trump term, is at first we didn't really know what he was doing. he didn't know who his friends were. now he knows like i want to appoint loyalists. cavanagh and barrett, two of his appointees to the supreme

court, they are not good justices. they are very far to the right but they don't always vote the maga line. barrett, in particular. she has had some guns cases that i thought she did a very sensible thing. she's a real judge. she does something other than what her party wants her to do. trump now knows he doesn't want people like that on the supreme court. he wants more alito's. >> in the first term he basically took the federal society list and picked from that list. what are they doing right now? are they freaking out that he's not going to pull from their list? >> possibly. the service the federal society poles to the party is that if there is a vacancy in idaho, if you are president, you probably don't know who the good lawyers are in idaho, much less the ones who align with whatever you want to have happen, so the service the federal society provides is that they know who all the lawyers are and who is reliable, so if trump goes to the federalist society and says i want people like alito, i

want people who are going to vote lockstep through my agenda, the federal society will be able to find those people for him because that is what they do. >> in the odds of recusal by alito from the january 6 case, where do you put the odds of that? >> i'm more likely to encounter a magical unicorn as i walk out the door to your studio then alito is likely to recuse. >> for all the unicorn lovers out there, that means he thinks it's very unlikely. >> indians, good to talk to you all night. thank you so much for joining me. coming up, we could've done more to fight. that is what hillary clinton said recently about democrats and alito and the dobbs decision. will talk more about those comments and where the fight goes from here. where the fight goes from here. for healthy joints. i love your dress. oh thanks! i splurged a little

because liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, right? i've been telling everyone. baby: liberty. did you hear that? ty just said her first word. can you say “mama”? baby: liberty. can you say “auntie”? baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪ was that your grandfather, leading armies to battle? was that your great aunt, keeping armies alive? drafting the plans. taking the pictures. was it your family members who flew? who fixed. who fought. who rose to the occasion. when the world needed them the most. discover, preserve, and share the stories of your family's heroes. save on ancestry subscriptions for a limited time.

recently, donald trump was asked a pretty straight forward question, do you think women should be able to get the abortion pill, mr. birthstone. his response well, i have an opinion on that but i'm not going to explain. i will be releasing my strong views over the next week. that interview was about a month ago. in the meantime, states are continuing to act, and not in a good way. in louisiana, republican governor jeff landry just signed a lock classified two abortion drugs as dangerous and

controlled substances. the law is the first of its kind in the country and will make possessing the drugs and crime punishable with jail time. joining me here at the table, president and ceo of reproductive freedom. so, as we are waiting for donald trump to grace us with his view on mifepristone, we are also waiting on the supreme court to do the same. meanwhile, there is a lot happening in states across the country. i mentioned louisiana. give us a sense of other states. what is happening in states across the country? >> the first thing to say is that mifepristone is incredibly safe. it's really important for people to know that.

it's safer than tylenol. it's been approved by the fda for 20+ years. this is really important. it is not some new drug. it is established, tested, safe and effective. >> and this was a judge, not the fda, making the decision. >> that's right, a trump- appointed judge in texas who has become quite the toys for being the court you can go to for the most extremist radical cases to get moved up. that ties nicely to the conversation you just had on samuel alito. the court should've never heard this case. this case would have never made it to the supreme court without trump-appointed judges clearing the path. it's a ridiculously outlandish case but what is interesting now is it is so crazy that even big pharma weighed into the court, and the oral arguments were actually pretty promising, fingers crossed. so, that is why you are beginning to see states like

louisiana take it into their own hands. >> other other states on the horizon you are watching closely? >> we should watch every single state with the band and restriction which include the red states with majorities of republicans. we know it's not going to stay in louisiana and the fact that it got this far is chilling. that is the goal here, to have a chilling effect on exodus because it is still available. women in louisiana should and can get access to mifepristone and other states. the goal here is to make it more difficult and scary. >> the new york times -- i want to switch gears slightly, but still on the topic, the new york times is reporting on a book hillary clinton did. she's been a longtime fighter for decades but what she said is, one thing i give the right credit for is they never give up. they are relentless. you know, the take a loss, they get back up, they regrouped, they raise more money. it is tremendously impressive the way we -- they operate and we have nothing like it on our side. there have been antiabortion groups around for a long time and i think the electorate sort of woke up postop.

it feels a little bit like there was a shift post 2022 but you have to manage for complacency. what are you seeing out there in terms of energy? what do you wish people were doing more of out there? >> i actually was hillary clinton's women's foot director in 2016 so i saw some of this firsthand and i agree with her on some point she's made and i think you are right. hillary's loss was a huge wake- up call not just for the party but the movements, not just the abortion rights movement but the larger gender equity movement. we have seen folks really fired up and angry and doing a much more aggressive job of drawing the lines between gender equity care and policy. it's not just about abortion. it is about that larger ecosystem is how women are not treated as fair members of society, so i think when i talk about birth control and tax on

abortion care, what i want folks to remember is this. it was just a few decades ago, few generations ago that women did not have access to these things. the underlying issue here is the fight for power and control of women's bodies. our mothers were the first generation to have access to contraception, to have anything resembling equal access to the marketplace in the workplace. this is an effort to push us back into the homes. this is something hillary clinton knows so well. she was the pioneer on the front line so for folks being disenfranchised or disinfected -- disaffected we have an opportunity to make it clear to voters, unaffiliated voters, independents, young men, that we are in a critical moment. donald trump and his administration used every tool in their toolbox to really rollback fundamental freedoms in this country and we have an

opportunity to advance freedoms in this country. >> it is such an important contrast. one of the most important things i've seen out there are the individual women who have dealt with our own -- their own losses were dealt with pregnancies they wanted and were at risk because of laws in the state. would you like to see more money spent on ads like that? what do you see as most effective in making this case? >> if we're talking about biden versus trump, the most effective messages donald trump, in his own words, bragging about overturning roe. and that makes it crystal clear his responsibility this was in the number two, telling those horror stories, the work that so many of these women and the stories that are really hard to tell and i would like to see many more stories of regular moms and dads to of had to make tough choices but all phases of their pregnancy and from all backgrounds. >> thank you for the work you do everyday, and we will be

right back. nd we will be right back. tein, 1 gram sugar, 25 vitamins and minerals. and a new fiber blend with a prebiotic. (♪♪) were you worried the wedding would be too much? nahhhh... (inner monologue) another destination wedding?? why can't they use my backyard!! with empower, we get all of our financial questions answered. so we don't have to worry. empower. what's next.

clogged gutters can cause big problems fast. until now. call 833-leaffilter today for your free gutter inspection. i've had terrible flooding problems on my porch. now i understand why. right now leaffilter is offering a free inspection, on your schedule. leaffilter is a permanent gutter solution, so you never have to worry about costly damage from clogged gutters again. call us today and schedule your free inspection. to schedule your free inspection, call 833.leaf.filter today or visit leaffilter.com. i don't want you to move. to schedule i'm gonna miss you so much. you realize we'll have internet waiting for us at the new place,

right? oh, we know. we just like making a scene. transferring your services has never been easier. get connected on the day of your move with the xfinity app. can i sleep over at your new place? can katie sleep over tonight? sure, honey! this generation is so dramatic! move with xfinity.

that will do it for me today. think you for joining us on this memorial day and thank you to everyone who served. we have a busy week ahead of us because closing arguments in donald trump's criminal trial are tomorrow. that means special coverage right here on msnbc. i'll join rachel maddow and the rest of the taper two our special beginning at 8:00 p.m. eastern. all your favorite legal analyst will be there to help make sense of it all. it will be a historic day and hope to see you all there. a special edition with the last word starts right now. >> i am looking forward to seeing you