lot of republicans right now. >> yeah. the republicans i spoke to say the same. this is sort of baked in. they know who trump it and don't think it will change month. the biden administration grooe. agree. even if it moves some voters in the swing states and we will all be watching so carefully as those deliberations begin later this morning. msnbc political analyst brendan buck, thank you, as always. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" for us on this wednesday morning. a jam-packed "morning joe" starts right now. ♪♪ >> good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, june 29th. we are hours away from the start of jury deliberations in donald trump's criminal hush money case. we will have expert legal analysis on yesterday's closing arguments and when the jurors could return a possible verdict. plus, we are used to seeing followers of donald trump

outside the courthouse but, yesterday, the biden campaign held the surprise event there. >> i don't understand that. >> we will tell you who was there and dig into that campaign strategy. also ahead, the latest from gaza where israeli forces are moving into the city of rafah. it comes days after an israeli air strike ignited a deadly fire at a camp for displaced palestinians. let's dive in to our top story. after 21 days of heated testimony, the defense and the prosecution delivered closing arguments yesterday in donald trump's criminal hush money trial. nbc news laura jarrett has a recap. >> the first trial of an american president soon in the hands of seven men and five women. prosecutors closing their case arguing former president trump orchestrated a criminal conspiracy to influence the 2016 election to pull the wool over voter's eyes, they say, by ordering the payoff of stormy

daniels and covering it all up. they tried to establish a pattern of mr. trump damaging stories that could derail his 2016 campaign pointing to a key conversation secretly recorded by mr. trump's then attorney michael cohen, the star prosecution witness where mr. trump discussed the alleged payoff of a different woman and stein glass calling it jaw dropping. we didn't pick him up at the witness store, the defendant chose michael cohen, he said. telling jurors you don't need michael cohen to connect these dots. but as the ultimate insiders, he can do just that. the defense has also tried to discredit cohen as motivated to lie and desperate to put mr. trump behind bars and pointing to coy hen's own podcast.

but steinglass took that head on arguing cohen is understandably angry because mr. trump dropped him like a hot potato after the feds came calling in 2018 and urging jurors to see this case not about michael cohen, it's about donald trump. in his closing arguments, trump attorney todd blanch tore into the prosecution's case and blasting cohen as the human embodiy of reasonable doubt and branding him the greatest liar of all time and the mvp of liars saying he lied to congress, judges, prosecutors, bankers, his family. adding he came in here and raised his right hand and lied to each of you repeatedly and pointing to one of the trial's most dramatic moments when cohen was confronted with phone records suggesting he never spoke to mr. trump about daniels

in a 2016 phone call lasting just 96 seconds but, instead, called mr. trump's bodyguard. blanche arguing, quote. he struck at the 34 felony counts that mr. trump faces to allegedly falsifying his business records arguing none of the voices, vouchers, or checks were falls saying the legal retainer language on the records wasn't criminal or sinister, but merely generated by accounting software at the trump organization and there was nothing wrong with it. he said trump is innocent. there is no crime, period. >> this is a trial that should not happen. it's a very sad thing. this is a dark day in america. >> nbc laura jarrett is reporting for us there. here is the time line for today's proceedings. the judge will give the jury

instructions at 10:00 eastern time and expected to last an hour. after that, the jury deliberation begins. the judge said the jury will deliberate until about 4:30 this afternoon. schedules for thursday and friday will depend on the jury's progress. let's bring in our guests this morning. good morning to you all. lisa, you were at your post again yesterday down at the courthouse. so the case from donald trump's defense team is michael cohen, the star witness as he he believes he is, is a liar, the greatest liar of all time as todd blanche put it to which the prosecution said he is and why donald trump counted on him to do his dirty deeds. how did it play out in court yesterday? >> i think one of the things that is missing from that sort of juxtaposition there is how much other evidence the prosecution has that has

absolutely nothing to do with michael cohen. if you listened to todd blanche yesterday, michael cohen is the central character in this drama. you listen to josh steinglass he is nothing more a narrator and a tour guide through this mountain of evidence. i thought it played pretty well that he acknowledged what michael cohen is and was, because he was saying, again, you played this clip from laura. we picked this guy up at the witness store. we didn't choose this guy. the defendant chose this guy and chose him for what makes him untrust worthy. i thought a good number for josh steinglass who had a number of good moments yesterday. >> the day didn't end until 8:00 last night, three hours from donald trump's defense team and almost five hours from the prosecution. at the end of the day, what did it add up to for you? >> it added up to eight hours at

the ends of the day. >> massive. very good. >> i was told there would be math on this test and i was prepared. look. i think that is too much but part of that is from my own experience. if i had begged for 30 minutes to close a case like this, i would have gotten 20. i don't know what the right amount is. i know that prosecutors and defense attorneys, you know, want to say everything they can because if they leave something unsaid, they will believe that was the thing that made the difference in their case. so i get it. i think it's too much. i think there is a lot of diminishing marginal return. >> lisa, walk us through what seemed like an important moment in the courtroom yesterday where trump's attorney todd blanche was admonished by the judge and blanche said to the jury you might be putting this guy in prison and sending him to jail p the judge said, whoa, that is not necessarily going to happen

so walk us through that this. >> they asked for instruction from the jurors that they are not to take that in to consideration. the reason it was so serious, first of all, blanche worked in the southern district of new york almost ten years. chuck and i know and i was never a prosecutor, you don't mention anything in summations having to do with sentencing. that is the province of the judge. the jury has absolutely nothing to do with the sentence. so by raising the specter of prison was a big no-no, particularly given who the defendant is here, because what blanche was trying to do is think about who you might be sending to prison. this is the former president of the united states. almost trying to elevate the burden improperly. the instruction was you're not to think about this. sentencing is totally for me to deal with. and there is not necessarily a sentence of imprisonment that would go along with a

conviction. we were on air and he said if you're the prosecution that is the best possible position to be in because he has lifted that extra burden that todd blanche wanted to place on the jury by telling them you can convict this guy and he might never do a day in prison, don't trouble yourself about it. >> chuck, i understand from my preeminent source in this trial, mika brzezinski, that there are two lawyers on the jury. when i start hearing about michael cohen is a liar and michael cohen is this and that and everybody is focusing on michael cohen, just as a lawyer, and i know lisa and you are also lawyers, what are you thinking about? when you get back there, you're looking at the documents. again, it seems to me if you've got two lawyers that are going to be back there, they are going to be saying, okay, it doesn't matter whether you like that guy or not, it's in the documents. we have got the evidence here.

whether that evidence acquits donald trump or whether it convicts him. i wonder if that is your thought as well. >> i agree with that, joe. look. if i have a good case, good evidence, good documents, good witnesses, all are welcome to the jury. lawyers, zoologists, i don't care. also, you can't look at any one person and describe that they would be or would not be a good jury based on their occupation. but i think you're right. i think lawyers take a particularly rigorous approach to analyzing evidence and following instructions. again, if i have a good case, that is exactly what i want. >> so let's look ahead to today, guys. lisa, the jury instructions 10:00 this morning and expected to last about an hour and then it's in the hands of the jury, this case. why are the jury instructions so important to what happens next? >> because the jury instructions inform how the jurors understand what are sort of complicated

charges here. remember, the charge here isn't about hush money, itself. it's about the falsification of business records and 34 of them in particular. but what makes this a felony is the accusations that these business records were falsified essentially in service of concealing another crime. and so in that, the jury instructions are going to be critical. what does it mean to have the intent to defraud? to the extent the prosecution the underlying crime as a conspiracy to promote donald trump's election through unlawful means. what are those unlawful means? the judge's final jury instructions allow for the jurors to have not a meeting of the minds but their own opinion on what those unlawful means are and they are sort of a grab bag of what they can be. and so the jury instructions here are absolutely critical, in particular, look for an instruction on what it means to falsify business records with an emphasis on the word "cause."

because donald trump has been accused of falsifying the records himself or causing them to be falsified and josh steinglass emphasized yesterday this cause aspect of it. it doesn't matter that trump may never have seen the entries. if he set this whole thing in to motion, he caused alan weisselberg to struck them to make the business records in a certain way, that will be enough, so long ago the jury instructions make clear to the jury that is what they can mean to falsify. >> interesting. lisa, i have a question for you but, first, i want to read from chuck's new opinion piece in "u.s. news and world report." it's entitled even if he is guilty, trump could be acquitted. justice would still be served. you write in part, this, chuck. to me as a former federal prosecutor, the evidence is compelling that trump directed a plot to conceal the tryst from

voters during the 2016 presidential shp. no matter how you feel about his innocence or guilt that is okay. our justice system is imperfect. anything endeavor that includes human beings is imperfect. we ask jurors to list and deliberate and ask them to serve as the conscientious of our community and we empower them to determine whether a defendant is guilty as charged and we must live with that decision whether we agree or disagree with it. >> chuck, let's just take this one layer deeper. sort of an ininception thing here. even if he is convicted, a lot of legal minds out there think he has a pretty good appeal on legal grounds. forget the facts. but on legal grounds on whether this case should have been brought in the first place or not.

so, again, the wheels of justice grind slowly, but they grind fine. again, it's not a slam dunk. this is not a basketball game. it's a process that, over time, as you said, works, regardless of the outcome. >> i believe that is right. i tried dozens of cases, joe, as a federal prosecutor. number one, i couldn't predict what the jury would in any of them, although in the overwhelming majority of those cases, the jury convicted. but when they don't convict -- and it was painful, because i still, to this day, believe in the cases that i brought in which the jury acquitted. and that is painful because i feel as if there was a injustice, but that is not really accurate. when the jury decides, it decides. everybody in the system knows that is final. putting aside the appeal you just discussed, joe. and that is okay. we live with it.

that is our system. we ought to be proud of it. it's flawed and it's still the best system in the world. justice is a self-defining concept whether acquitted or convicted, the jury has spoken and we must accept that. all citizens must accept that. >> yep. it's that acceptance is really important. i couldn't agree with you more, chuck. lisa, another factor of this, everyone is, of course, talking about this is whatever the jury decides and waiting to see what this jury will come up with. one thing you've also been studying in court is the judge. it's impossible not to. it's such an important player in all of this. and what his experience has been throughout all of this. just studying him, how do you think he is going to be -- you've already made it clear that his instructions, you expect them to be specifically clear, especially around certain subjects. but if they can't decide, how long can you keep them in there and would he?

>> it's a difficult question to know but i think what he will do is encourage them to continue to deliberate. if they indicate they are having trouble, encourage them to deliberate until they are absolutely positive that no more movement can be -- can happen. this is a judge who has earned the respect of observers in the courtroom for his demeanor. he has the quintessential judicial temperament and that should pay real dividends with the jury, in particular. all juries love the judges that are in charge of them. that is sort of just a bug in a feature of our judicial system because the judges are the ones who care and feed for them. but my expectation is that this particular jury really has affection for judge merchan who is looking for their well-being throughout the and temper through the trying of times. if he says to them i am going to encourage you to go back to the jury room and continue to

deliberate, i think they will take that seriously, unless there is absolutely no possibility that they can reach a verdict. now, of course, there are 34 counts here so one possibility is that they convict on certain counts and hang on others. and that may be a situation where he is more than willing to let them come back hung on certain counts. in particular, because donald trump signed nine of the checks, one possibility here is that you see a mixed verdict where the jury comes back and say we are holding him accountable for the accounts having to do with the checks he personally signed. on some of the others, we are having trouble reaching agreement, your honor. >> chuck, back to your experience as a prosecutor what it is like now to made your case and your closing arguments and it's in the hands of the jury to try to look in their faces and read their reactions over all of these weeks. what is it like to sit and wait as a prosecutor who feels he has made his kiss to see what the jury will decide? >> absolutely flipping miserable.

i hated it. because there is nothing you can do at that point, willie. it's out of your hands entirely. so what i mostly did was pace the halls and wander into the courtroom and back out and tried to each lunch but couldn't. tried to turn my attention to the next case but couldn't. it's funny. i had jurors come back quickly i thought a complex place and take a long time and i've had jurors take a long time where i thought it was a simple case. to answer your question? miserable. >> a follow-up on that. is it possible to predict any particular jury -- from your experience a case like this, how long it took, the number of counts involved. give us an approximation how long the jury deliberations might take. >> my only sense of that, jonathan, 34 counts and lots of documents and they will work through it methodically. there is a bit of folklore attached to verdict friday. jurors often will reach the verdict at the end of a week so they don't have to come back

next week. but that is not a rule. that is not a law. that is just something that i've observed on occasion. again, i didn't know when my own jurors would come back so it would be hard for me to tell you when this one will come back. >> former u.s. attorney chuck rosenberg and msnbc legal correspondent lisa ruben, thank you both for coming on this morning. we will see you soon. still ahead on "morning joe," the latest from the middle east following that deadly air strike on a tent camp in gaza housing displaced palestinians. why the white house says israeli's actions in rafah, so far, have not crossed president biden's red line. richard haass joins us next with his expert analysis. we are back in 90 seconds. we are back in 90 seconds. ♪ lim♪ and doug. (bell ringing) limu, someone needs to customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. let's fly! (inaudible sounds)

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it appears the munitions used in israeli's deadly strike on rafah were made in the united states. that is according to "the new york times" which spoke to weapons experts and reviewed visual evidence. while the attack received international condemnation, israeli is still pushing forward with its offensive in the southern gaza city. nbc news international correspondent raf sanchez hat latest. >> palestinian families fleeing rafah any way they can as nbc news crew found israelis pushing in the heart of the city for the first time and the white house

says it hasn't seen evidence of israeli crossing president biden's red line. >> we still don't want to see the israelis smashing into rafah with large units and haven't seen and not to this point. >> reporter: outside the city 21 people killed in an israeli strike on tents along the coast, according to the health ministry in hamas-run gaza. the idf denying they attacked a safe zone. it comes just two days after an israeli air strike ignited this firestorm at a different camp and killing dozens of civilians. facing international criticism the idf saying it used small bombs to target two hamas commanders but that a secondary explosion started the enormous fire. >> our munition alone could not have ignited a fire of this size. >> reporter: the idf says hidden hamas weapons might have caused the blast but offered no firm evidence. an israeli official said earlier a gas tank could have sparked the blames. nbc news has learned the

military has been forced to halt aid delivers in gaza by three after officials say bad weather damaged their temporary pier. here is part of the causeway floating away from the beach and a setback after military boats washed up on the coast of israeli and gaza over the weekend, while the u.s. service member remains in critical condition after an accident on the pier last week. >> nbc raf sanchez was reporting us from israeli. joining us is richard haass, author of the weekly news letter home and away. great to have you at the table with us, richard. welcome. let's talk about the red line. amiral saying what we saw yesterday out of that refugee camp that were killed after a bomb in horrific pictures making their way around the world and that did not cross the red line.

what is the red line? what is the red line mean, so everyone watching is clear? >> the red line was essentially not to go in in a very heavy way using large ordnance and not the way israeli had previously gone into gaza using large weapons from a distance, sure, to cause lots of civilian casualties. how will i call it is in the red line was set fairly high and it was how israeli was going to do this. >> how much pressure is this president feeling right now? obviously, some tough questions in the briefing room yesterday to admiral kirby about what happened in that camp. what is the relationship right now with prime minister netanyahu, as we see these horrible images? >> i helped break the story before curby's appearance that the administration decided this does not cross the red line. the relationship with netanyahu is not good and bad feelings still between the two men and the administration wishes that

israeli would show more caution in its conduct in rafah but, at the same time, the administration officials tell us they feel israeli has not gun all the way in yet, in part, because of u.s. guidance and this missile that was used was us supplied in part because it can be more targeted and try to avoid incidents like this, tragic incidents like this. we heard from the vice president yesterday, joe, say this was tragic. but, right now, there could not appear, outside of what kirby said yesterday, a full-on invasion of rafah. short of that, there really doesn't seem to be much u.s. objections to what israeli is going to do there. this president is still supportive of the campaign. >> well, richard, what happens if israeli -- obviously, richard, the president doesn't want israeli to use a large ordnance as they did in the early phase of the war where israeli was condemned for using massive bombs in civilian areas.

at the same time, richard, what is israeli to do? are they supposed to just sit there while conditions in rafah get worse? while the possibility of famine spreads and while hamas regroups? i mean, let's just state the obvious. the united states would never do this. we didn't do this in mosul or in afghanistan or in iraq or vietnam, or in world war ii. if we were struck, we struck back until we won the war. so i guess what confuses me is is it in the united states or israeli's best interests that israeli just sits outside of rafah and this suffering continues indefinitely? or do they go in and kill hamas

terrorists? >> here is the dilemma, joe. israeli is, obviously, decided to continue to degrade hamas. there are some major military elements of hamas left. but here is the but. in the course of doing it you had the sort of incident the other day that 40 plus innocent got killed and that is inevitable. as mr. rumsfeld said awful stuff happens and that sort of thing is going to happen again and again. this further isolates israeli and further builds and makes it impossible for the saudis for normalize and a future tool for future generations of palestinians and still doesn't solve the problem of what comes next. the question the administration has to ask is not whether israeli crossed the red line. to me that seems too technical, too narrow. the real question is this still wise and is this worth it and is this helping israeli and is this

helping the united states? the question is not how is israeli going about it now. the real question is whether it still makes sense. and i think the united states has to really raise the question should we be supporting a cease-fire that the benefits of this israeli operation don't outweigh the cost? obviously, you're not going to get any hostages back on so long as this goes on and not how to deal with gaza and the west bank. i think the first question of order is not this red line issue. i think the question for the administration is whether it come out publicly was israeli is doing. the israelis say if we do, that we got to finish the job. the republicans will say that. the problem with that argument, joe, this is a job that cannot be finished. israeli continues to fight a conventional war in an unconventional setting. so i'm not sure that what they are doing ultimately, the benefits will justify the costs. >> right. so, richard, i remember on 9/11

watching the towers fall. the second that happened, i knew, i just knew we were going to war and, eventuall laudin would be killed. i knew midst that tragedy they could not rule gaza again. you are correct. they can't eliminate every hamas terrorist but certainly israeli, the united states, and, yes, our arab neighbors and arab allies in that region would all agree that hamas can never rule gaza again. how do we get to that point? >> 100%. but in order to do that you need a comprehensive strategy. yes, you degrade hamas and hamas has been significantly degraded without this operation but you got to come up with alternative

and build a nation for palestinians and others to provide security of delivering services. >> it's not all or nothing. i guess the question is, at what point does hamas have to be degraded that the united states, our allies can go in and rebuild gaza and have an arab peace forcing keep. >> to keep the saudis and others from going in is not the remaining strength of hamas. it's the lack of an israeli political strategy for what comes after to satisfy at least some palestinian political aspirations. only israeli is refusing to put that on the table now and that is what the saudis and other need to form an international force. what is missing is something political. second of all, hamas could be degraded more but we shouldn't kid ourselves. any international force that goes into gaza is not going to

be a peace keeping force. it's going to be what i would call a peace making force. there will be sill be significant pockets and elements of resistance. people are going to get killed doing this. we have to understand that. this is going to be require a significant arab or military national presence for a long time so we need a political element to the strategy and we need a serious military element to the strategy, but more than anything, what is holding the arabs back from getting into gaza is the lack of a political strategy. they need political cover. let's be blunt. they need some political government from this israeli government which refuses to give it because there is no consensus in the israeli government to open up a political dialogue with palestinians, much less allow the palestinian authority to be part of whatever arab force is created in gaza. >> let's not kid ourselves. they also want before they send their peace keeping or peace making forces in, they want as

many hamas terrorists killed as possible. so their soldiers coming in can actually keep the peace. >> in all of this, barely a mention of the hostages, richard. is there any hope for their return? i don't even hear them as part of this conversation. >> you're right, mika. i think the tragic reality is there is probably not a lot of hostages left who are alive. that is increasing operating subject. there are people in israeli who are saying let's just have a cease-fire. we have reached the point of diminishing returns and let's get the hostages back. let's get an accounting. let's get all of the hostages back. that is one school of thought. the other is as joe is suggesting is to allow this to go on further and further degrade hamas, on part, on the assumption that most of the hostages are never coming back alive so that consideration has faded but that is a powerful

still how to put it? debate within israeli about the priority of the war versus the priority of the hostages. prime ministers clearly come down on the side of the priority of pursuing the war against hamas. a lot of other people, military and otherwise, have come down on the other side. >> richard, thank you. coming up, why why the communications director for the biden/hair it's campaign outside the courthouse with robert deniro for trump's criminal trial? >> communications director. >> communications. ial? >> communications director. >> communications. new centrum menopause supplements help unpause life when symptoms pause it. with a multivitamin plus hot flash support. (♪♪) daily zz for quality sleep. (♪♪)

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...day to fly. picture of the monuments in washington. 6:37 on a wednesday morning. new signs this morning pointing to a possible dismissal of the charges against world number one golfer scottie scheffler. theever county, kentucky, attorney said he will announce allegations in court this afternoon. scheffler's lawyer is reportedly will hold a news conference outside the courthouse

afterwards. neither side provided details about today's event. he was arrested out of the valhalla golf course. the detective involved in the arrest allegedly that scheffler disregarding his instructions and his hit vehicle. a camera on a pole across the street does not show that. scheffler was booked and released in time to tee off at the pga championship. richard haass remains with us. it looks like these might go away and the officer's account doesn't match up to the video we saw. >> exactly what it looks like. quite honestly, those charges never should have been brought. but can we just talk about the golfer? the most amazing thing is this guy gets arrested, does his stretching in the jail cell that day and goes out and shoots a 5

under par round. i have seen athletes with the ability to compartmentalize. this sets a world record for compartmentalization. let's be clear. >> he said he was sitting in the jail cell doing his stretching because he hoped he would get to the tee to play. he watched through the cell his arrest. its looks like the charges may go away. >> first of all, it is a relief to be talking about something like this other than the other trial. i was scared. i didn't want to go there. skoted scottie scheffler is wearing an orange suit and fingerprinted and photographed. he goes back to the golf course and shoots a 66.

the mind game involved in that had to be phenomenal. >> it was. he is the world's number one for good reason. he would have been in the thick of the tournament had it not been for that one round where he had a let-down the next day. but, again, this is the idea that we are having this idea. >> it's wonderful. >> it's both wonderful and preposterous. the legal machinery shall we say of kentucky is focusing on this, i think one or two real problems they might focus on, just saying. but you're happy. >> aren't you relieved we are talking about about this? >> i am but i'm ready to talk about baseball. >> padres reliever yesterday estrada set the record for the longest strikeout streak in baseball's expansion era adding three last night with a 4-0 shutout of the miami marlins to stepped his streak of consecutive strikeouts for 13.

he is a relief pitcher so they happened over a series of game and all 13 strikeouts in that streak have been swinging. >> that is extraordinarily impressive and a record. also we should note speaking of baseball. the negro league today, mike, its stats will be incorporated into the major league baseball record books. josh gibson is now, because of this move that will happen today, career batting average .372 and clear slugging .718 and career ops nearly 1.200 and single season batting average .446 and nearly 1.000 in slugging. >> i think they never got their due because of the racial climate in this country for nearly -- well over a hundred years. the idea three or four members of the negro leagues who are on that list and top ten hitters of all time and it's a wonderful thing for the country to realize

what we missed because we were such a segregated society and it's a wonderful thing for all of the players and the memories of the negro league. >> it was always said josh gibson was the babe ruth of the negro leagues. now he is just the josh gibson of professional baseball. the new york yankees, the pitching staff, without gerrit cole, how about these guys who have picked up the slack and kept us near the top of the american league? >> no surprise the hitting come through with soto and judge. the pitching without cole and the baseball has to think about if and when cole rejoins the team and he heals, yankees against the orioles, i think the two best teams in the east and phillies and dodgers. >> phillies are looking amazing. >> four great teams this year. >> sox, any chance in the wildcard making a run? >> four great teams in baseball. >> say no more. say no more.

richard, thank you. go ahead. >> i do want to say. >> oh, jump in here. >> my two sox friends i asked them if they saw the game last night. did you see the game? >> yeah. >> i followed it afterwards. it was a nice win. they won in baltimore. they remain over .500. they are still overachieving. they are in the mix for the wildcard race. you and i are definitely have overachieved. >> we all are overachieving. >> barely. >> none of us were born with the natural talent. i speak only of mike, jim miklaszewski, and myself of rafaela who made another extraordinary catch last night at the fence a couple of games ago. again, this is human highlight reel stuff that people will be talking about this kid.

i think maybe they got a little over their skis last night. the radio announcers were asking if he may be the greatest center fielder of all time. how old is he? 21, i think. if you but if he stays healthy, i mean, mike, this kid is going to light it up and he is going to win a lot of gold gloves. >> yeah. he is not only gold gloves. he is actually a platinum glover center fielder right now and he is young and we will see what happens. the larger point you raise. how about this club? look. at the end of the day, it's still baseball. i enjoy it. i love the wins, obviously. we are not get as many as we would like to have, but it's baseball. it's the best sport going in this country. >> and for you, dooms day red sox fans only two and a half out of the wildcard. there is hope there. >> exactly. we have had some great pitching this year. it's exciting. they are underachievers.

the little engine that could. i agree with mike. when they are playing baseball, when you and your children can sit down and watch the game together, it's magic. >> peaceful. >> i want them to win but if they don't win, it's just -- as mika says. >> i just enjoyed my time at fenway. >> you had a great time. >> i had a great time. >> we had a wonderful time this weekend. mike had a wonderful time. >> mike had a great time. >> great time. >> thank you. >> democratic senator john fetterman will join our conversation coming up. and also dare i didn't say rucker will be live in the studio. we are excited about that. he will discuss his memoir, "life is too short." "morning joe" will be right back.

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51 past the hour. far right house republican bob good may pay the price for a lapse in loyalty to donald trump. the former president has endorsed good's challenger, virginia state senator john mcguire. it comes despite good appearing at trump's hush money trial less than two weeks ago to push trump's false claims about the

case. >> this is a crooked sham trial to try to hurt the nominee who is going to be the president of the united states whether or not they like it. this gag order is to ensure he cannot defend himself properly and we're here to tell the truth about this travesty of justice, this political persecution, this election interference. >> wow. so that didn't work for him. good has been a devoted supporter of donald trump frequently calling him the greatest press of my lifetime. last year he endorsed ron desantis and at the time he said that the florida governor was more of a true conservative than trump. in a long social media post yesterday trump wrote that good had turned his bad on, quote, our incredible movement and that his recent loving endorsement

was too late. anybody want to take notes? coming up we'll recap the key moments from closing arguments in donald trump's criminal hush money trial and get expert legal analysis on the case ahead of jury deliberations, plus, we'll dig into the biden campaign's surprise event outside the courtroom. "morning joe" will be right back.

a few minutes qualify the top of the hour on this wednesday, may 29th, jonathan lemire and mike barnicle are still with us and joining the conversation the president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton with us this hour. so, donald trump's criminal hush

money case is hours away from going to the jury. both the defense and the prosecution delivered their closing arguments yesterday wrapping up last night around 8:00 p.m. judge merchan will give instructions at 10:00 a.m. eastern time expected to last about an hour. after that, deliberations will begin. the judge said the jury will deliberate until about 4:30 this afternoon and schedules for thursday and friday will depend on the jury's progress. as for the closing arguments, the defense went first yesterday. donald trump's lead attorney, todd blanche, addressed the jury for a total of two hours and 57 minutes. he spent much of the time focusing on former trump attorney michael cohen calling cohen as a serial liar who could not be trusted. the judge admonished blanche at one point for suggesting to the jury that they would send trump to prison if they convicted him

calling blanche's comment, quote, outrageous. the judge granted a request from prosecutors to instruct jurors to disregard blanche's remark while assuring them that a guilty verdict would not necessarily mean a prison sentence. >> meanwhile, the prosecution took nearly five hours to deliver its closing argument yesterday. veteran assistant district attorney joshua steinglass re-established the facts of the case focusing heavily on two main exhibits, notes handwritten by allen weisselberg allegedly that lay out the plan to reimburse michael cohen and was later brought to donald trump to review. the second exhibit, a page of handwritten notes from trump's former corporate controller jeffrey mcconney. mcconney testified he wrote them during a meeting between himself and weisselberg about the reimbursement payments. steinglass also tried to rebut

the defense claim that the prosecution's case hung solely on cohen's testimony. joining us now nbc news legal analyst and former federal prosecutor andrew weissmann. andrew, good morning. so we are just about three hours away from court, an hour or so of jury instructions from the judge to the jury and then it goes to the jury for how long, we don't know. we can't even speculate. there is no way of knowing how 1 people may or may not come to agreement on the case but what did you hear yesterday in terms of these summaries, these closing arguments that may compel the jury one way or another? >> well, i thought when we first talk about the defense summation that went first, i thought one of the notable things was what the defense did not talk about. it was pretty striking to me, the two smoking gun documents, exhibits 35 and 36, the handwritten notes that detail

exactly how the payment scheme was going to work, they were not in any way substantively addressed by todd blanche, the lead attorney for donald trump. that was really surprising. you know, for evidence that is clearly going to be central to the government's case and summation, you have to say something. hope hicks' testimony that sort of very damaging admissions she testified to were not addressed by todd blanche. david pecker's really damning statements were not addressed by todd blanche. there was just a slew of problematic evidence for the defense that todd blanche decided he would not address and that is really a gift to joshua steinglass, the experienced d.a. who was giving the state's summation and then on the state side, i think one of the reasons

it was so long is because this is the former president and potentially the future president, i think that mr. steinglass was worried about whether the jury would at least subconsciously be holding the state to a higher burden of proof than even proof beyond a reasonable doubt so i think he really wanted to hammer home all of the facts and make sure he wasn't leaving anything on the table and went through everything exhaustively and so i think that's one of the reaches you saw a sort of unusually long summation for a case of this duration. >> andrew, your take on that moment we just talked about when blanche seemed to suggest to the jury like, look, you might be putting my client, the former president of the united states in prison and the judge reprimanded them. no, you can't do that but moreover seemed to suggest to the jury, look, you can convict him and that doesn't necessarily mean he'll go to prison. do you think that opened the door and will change the calculus of some of these jurors

who are aware of the weightiness of this moment, this is the former potential former president of the united states. could this open the door to perhaps more likelihood to some sort of conviction? >> let's start with everybody knows whether you're a former prosecutor, former defense lawyer, maybe not even a lawyer at all, that when you are giving an address in front of the jury that's deciding guilt or not guilt, you do not raise the subject of sentencing. it is not for the jury, and so as judge merchan said to todd blanche, he said, there is no way that this wasn't intentional and todd blanche had actually had no response to that so clearly was a strategy to make it harder for the jury to think about a guilty verdict thinking they were sending the defendant to jail. and so judge merchan wanted to give an instruction and there was no objection at that point by the defense that was going to

really take that issue away, because the bell had been rung by todd blanche and so the judge said not only are you not consider at but he went a step further in a way that was unusual to say and you should know jail is not required here, so he's like don't think about it but essentially saying to the extent that that is now in your head, you need to remember there may be no jail here because it's not required, i will decide. so i think the judge was trying to do everything he could to unring the bell that was improperly rung by todd blanche in his summation. >> so, andrew, given that this case despite all the notoriety around certain witnesses is really a nuts and bolts paper trail case that was exhibited yesterday, we just showed parts of the paper trail, what about the aspect that one of the principals in this paper trail is in rikers, didn't testify, would that affect or impact the jury, do you think?

>> you know, that's a great question. that did not come up as much in the summations on both sides as you would expect. the jury unlike us never learned in the course of the trial where allen weisselberg was. that was something that the judge thought was improper to have in the case, and so they did not know that he was -- has been in jail twice and is currently in jail both times for crimes that one could easily conclude he did not -- to protect donald trump. we will see today whether the judge gives a fairly standard instruction that says do not consider why certain witnesses were or were not called. that's not something you should speculate about. you should just decide the case

based on the evidence in the case, so that may be in the charge, nobody has seen it yet who is not one of the parties, so we will know shortly whether he gives that instruction but it is something that it's a great question because it is something that jurors might consider, which is, you know, we heard so much about allen weisselberg, why haven't we heard from him? or keith schiller, the defendant's bodyguard, there's lots of evidence about him, stormy daniels famously said he was right outside the door when her -- when she said she had the sexual encounter with donald trump, so if they were going to dispute that and say she's lying, why didn't they hear from keith schiller? all of those things could be asked but we'll see shortly whether the judge basically says put that out of your mind. >> andrew, on that last point, when you look at the fact that schiller nor weisselberg was called in, that could go either way. some have said that the state

should have called them if they could have or the jury would hold that against them, but they could also say that since the documents with weisselberg's handwriting was there, why didn't the defense call him to say that's not what i meant or why didn't they call schiller to say i wasn't at the door, so couldn't that cut both ways, maybe even hurt the defense not calling him as much as one would imagine why the prosecutors didn't call either one of them? >> excellent, excellent point. so, i think the closer that a witness is aligned with the defense, the more i think the jury naturally will think, well, if that person had something really useful to say or exculpatory to say, why didn't you call him? there was a reference in the defense summation yesterday to don junior and eric as to -- and

there was a suggestion by them as to why the state didn't call them. that's the kind of argument, rev, that would fall flat because any juror will be thinking what are you talking about? that's the defendant's children. if they had anything useful, the defense would call them. now, it's worth remembering that the defendant has no obligation to call any witnesses, but the defendant here did put on a case. it was a very, very weak case. mr. costello by all accounts including mine really blew up in the defendant's face and so once you've taken on that burden of actually putting on a case, it makes it easier for the jury to think, well, i know that you can put on a case so it comes in poor form as to say, oh, there are other witnesses out there that could have helped you because they see if there were witnesses, you have the ability to call them and put them on the stand. >> all right. former federal prosecutor andrew weissmann, thank you very much. of course, we'll be watching all

day today. by the way, after weeks of watching republican members of congress who support trump showing up at the courthouse, the biden campaign sent a surrogate of its own to lower manhattan yesterday, actor robert de niro. the two-time oscar winner and new york city resident showed up shortly after court got under way. he was joined by biden campaign communications director michael tyler as well as two of the police officers who defended the u.s. capitol on january 6th. michael fanone and harry dunn. there de niro delivered a message on behalf of the campaign warning about the dangers of a second trump administration. >> i don't mean to scare you. no, no, wait, maybe i do mean to scare you. if trump returns to the white house, you can kiss these freedoms good-bye that we all take for granted. and elections, forget about them. that's over. that's done. if he gets in, i can tell you

right now, he will never leave. he will never leave. when trump ran in 2016 it was like a joke. this buffoon running for president, nah, never could happen. we've forgotten the lessons of history that showed us other clowns who weren't taken seriously until they became vicious dictators. with trump, we have a second chance, and no one is laughing now. this is the time to stop him by voting him out once and for all. we don't want to wake up after the election saying, what, again? my god, what the hell have we done? we can't have that happen again. >> okay, joining us now communications director for the biden/harris campaign michael tyler ler who as we mentioned also spoke at the news conference outside the

courthouse. i guess i have to ask you why you decided to speak there and to have the campaign show up at the courthouse. i don't know. it doesn't feel right to me at all. >> well, good morning, and thank you for having me. we showed up there because the news media has been incessantly posted up there day in and day out for weeks so as we said last week we are going to use the next month to talk about the upcoming presidential debate in atlanta and the things that donald trump is going to have to answer for. first and foremost he will answer for the continued threat that he poses to our democracy. his continued embrace of political violence and so that's what robert de niro and officers fanone and dunn were speaking to down in manhattan yesterday. they were speaking to the fact that donald trump still regularly embraces political violence. is calling for a bloodbath if he loses this election and is pledging to rule as a dictator

on day one and so given that the news media -- >> i get everything you are saying -- i get everything you're saying, and i agree with the officers who showed up and with robert de niro but i'm just curious about the location. last week when the members of congress showed up to support donald trump, i called it unbecoming of the office, of their serving the people of their district. american citizens are not supposed to politicize a court wroting and i feel the same way about the campaign. is there any concern about the campaign getting a little bit too close to these court proceedings and could that backfire? any concerns looking back was it a good decision? >> no, there's no concern. this campaign is not speaking about the substance of the trial in any way, shape, or form. what we talked about yesterday and what we'll continue to talk about is the unique threat that donald trump poses to our

democracy, and so a lot of the coverage of late has been focused on the stakes for him but making sure the american people understand the stakes for them, and that's donald trump's potential rise to power if he's able to win this election. this campaign is making sure he does not. that's why we are engaged and focused on highlighting the stakes and what he is attempting to do if he's able to regain power but highlighting the president's historic record of accomplishment. the positive things he has done day in and day out for working people across the country. we're doing that in philadelphia in the launch for black voters for biden. making sure people understand joe biden's positive record, his vision for the future and, of course, constantly calling out the danger and the threat that donald trump poses to our democracy. that's what we were doing yesterday and what we will continue to do. >> hey, michael, jonathan lemire. should we expect more of these sort of gorilla surprise style campaign appearances whether at the courthouse or elsewhere and,

secondly, we may be hours or a day or two away from a verdict in the trump case. do you think that's going to matter to voters one way or the other no matter what the outcome may be? >> well, yeah, listen, i'll take those in order. first and foremost, one thing that this campaign understands is that we operate in an increasingly fragmented and fractured media environment so when you have one thing like this trial that's taking up a lot of oxygen you have to be creative and use every tool at your disposal to break through that clutter and communicate your message to the electorate. that's what yesterday was about and this campaign will continue to be creative in the way we reach the voters where they are right now. as it relates to the verdict, what this campaign is focused on and what we know to be true, there's one way to guarantee that donald trump never returns to power and that's by defeating him at the ballot box, what voters did in 2020 and what this campaign is interesting for and why we're reminding people what the stakes will be because

donald trump will be the republican nominee at this point and so the american electorate and this campaign has to be ready to defeat him at the ballot box. >> two things, one is as mika pointed out, many had the questions about using the courthouse to make the statement because a lot of us, i certainly thought about going down with the central park five but didn't want to make it look like it was anything other than the evidence, but at the same time i think that the way the congresspeople came in, i think -- i don't think you could have held robert de niro back any more as passionate as he is about making sure democracy is sustained and you couldn't have had a better spokesman but the second thing, today as you go to philadelphia with both the president and vice president, there's been those who have said that the polls show black support declining and if there was any indication of that not

being the case in my opinion it was the fiasco in the bronx last week where donald trump drew a mostly white crowd that he imported and maybe got about 3,000 or 4,000 people which might fill up the bleachers at madison square garden but as you target the black vote and as there's been a real focus on that many of us, eight of the civil rights groups that are called the legacy groups, we were guests of the president at the state dinner for kenya and it was clear that the president and the campaign is also focusing on reaching out to validaters. how important is energizing black voter turnout with this focus today? >> yeah, it's incredibly important. thank you for the question. that's exactly what today is about, the president and vice president are in philadelphia today directly engaging with black voters in the key city and

key swing state and that is an effort that we are going to replicate in all of the battleground states today, tomorrow, through the weekend and throughout the summer. we're focused on not only ramping up our paid advertisement investments but our organizing apparatus working with partner organizations and tapping into their networks so we can communicate directly with black voters in their communities. we understand that you cannot show up in september and october and just come ask for votes. you have to earn votes. that's what joe biden understands and kamala harris understands and the work the campaign is doing. as you pointed out that sustained organizing work stands in stark contrast to the outreach efforts or lack thereof we see from the trump campaign and they seem to think that you can shutter minority outreach centers and meanwhile hawk bootleg sneakers or tout your own mug shot as evidence that black voters should support you

as far as their outreach effort goes. we know that's bogus and know that black voters know that to be an insult to their intelligence and the way you earn their support is by reminding them of what you have done for them which is what this administration has done, no administration has done more for black voters than this administration and reminding them of the stakes in working to earn their vote so that's what philadelphia is about. that's what this entire summer is going to be about for this campaign. >> michael, good morning. as you understand very well at the end of the day a lot of the vote come november will be on the economy. we all see the numbers and talk about them every day about the historically low unemployment, about gdp growth and consumer confidence is strong, people feel like in their own lives things are going pretty well. we talked about the dow crossing 40,000 and yet it is that inflation that hits people when paying 8 bucks for a box of cereal you see show up in some of the polling that says they think donald trump would do a better job with the economy than joe biden is doing despite all

the data i laid out so how do you break through on that key central core issue of this campaign about the economy? >> yeah, no, thank you for the question. you do it in a number of way, right? it takes a relentlessness. that's what a campaign is about but remind people of where we came from and where we are going and the stakes. the historic record of accomplishment since this president took office, 15 million jobs, 800,000 manufacturing jobs, the work that the president has done to lower cost for middle class family, capping the cost of insulin at $35 for seniors and he will cap the cost of insulin for everybody in a second term. the $2,000 annual out of pocket cap for seniors on prescription drugs and continued work we have to do but making sure people understand that everything donald trump is talking about doing would only worsen the gap between the super wealthy and the rest of us talking about reinstating even more tax cuts for the ultra wealthy and

corporations and promising big oil executives he'll do whatever the hell they want if they cut checks to his campaign while he then cuts our social security. so we have to make sure that people understand, a, what the record of accomplishment is from the president, the work he continues to do but also the damage that donald trump would do to middle class families if he's able to regain power and what we'll communicate from now till november. >> communications director for the biden/harris campaign, michael tyler, thank you very much for being on this morning. we appreciate it. >> thank you for having me. thank you. all right. still ahead on "morning joe," one of donald trump's former campaign lawyers, jenna ellis faces new consequences for her role in the former president's effort to overturn georgia's 2020 election results. we'll have the new details on that next on "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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welcome back. 24 past the hour. a former attorney for donald trump has agreed to have her law license in colorado suspended for three years over her role in attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election results. a visibly emotional jenna ellis pleaded guilty to felony charges

of aiding and abetting false statements in fulton county, georgia, last october. >> in the frenetic pace of attempting to raise challenges to the election in several states including georgia, i failed to do my due diligence. i believe in and value election integrity. if i knew then what i know now i would have declininged to represent donald trump in these post-election challenges. i look back on this whole experience with deep remorse. for those failures, your honor, i have taken responsibility already before the colorado bar has censured me and now take responsibility before this court and apologize to the people of georgia. thank you. >> here's another example of somebody who, of course, faces the consequences of her actions in pursuing the goals of donald trump, his quest for power and she keeps facing the

consequences. she could have been disbarred. she was not, but it is -- it is -- it is just fascinating, willie, that -- not fascinating, it's sad that all these people, these working class people that went to the capitol on january 6th believing the lies that donald trump fed to them month after month after month after month, that they sit in jail, that jenna ellis is disbarred while donald trump goes scot-free. i mean, and, again, i'm speaking specifically of january 6th, but we could also talk about stealing nuclear documents, stealing war plans on secrets on invading iran, doing all the things that he's done, and he

keeps -- he keeps paying the price, it's like michael cohen going to jail for doing donald trump's bidding, and donald trump, you know, likely skating. >> yeah, as we always say loyalty is a one-way street with donald trump. mika talked about good embarrassing himself coming up to the white house in new york on behalf of donald trump and donald trump endorses the other guy. it's always a one-way street and jenna ellis for people who don't remember, she was standing behind, for example, rudy giuliani at that sweaty hair dye press conference. she was central to the effort, the alleged legal effort to overturn the 2020 election and now she's paying the price, donald trump, of course, and his close allies are nowhere to be found and she was 1 of 18 co-defendants charged alongside trump in that sweeping case over the former president's campaign to reverse biden's 2020 victory in georgia.

ellis is a native of colorado who occasionally did practice there and censured and agreed the measure with colorado legal authorities who contend ellis, quote, caused significant actual harm in a variety of ways, it undermined the american public's confidence in the presidential election process. officials cited a letter of remorse ellis sent and noted her crime was due to her conduct as an accessory, not as a principal. ellis could not immediately be reached by nbc for comment. she'll have to file a pete to reinstate her law license at the end of that three-year suspension, so, john, you wrote an entire book about this big lie. it's lawyers like jenna ellis right there to overturn the election and everyday americans who storm the capitol based on the lie that she and donald trump perpetuated. >> i think there are two takeaways, one is the big lie does have consequence, not yet for donald trump and not yet for some of his closest allies

although many will stand trial in georgia down the road. but trump himself, though, his supporters, trump himself remains free. ellis is a member of his inner circle during the election process who now has renounced him and said i won't be part of this. i regret what i do and this man, trump, is not fit to hole the presidency again adding her name to a long list of officials, those who in many ways knew him best are the loudest voices. >> even those as prominent as rudy giuliani with massive defamation judgments against him and a long list of people paying the price for what happened around the 2020 election. a new poll from the voto latino shows joe biden leading donald trump by 29% in a two-way race among likely latino swing states. but when it includes third party

candidates it shrinks to 13 points with robert f. kennedy jr. taking 12%. joining us is maria teresa kumar. great to see you. walk us through the numbers, 20-point spread in a head-to-head race that shrinks with bobby kennedy jr. what else did you find? >> good morning, willie. one of the reasons voto latino went in to conduct this poll of over 2,000 likely latino voters in key battleground states we kept hearing the narrative latinos were leaving the democratic party and going to trump and that just didn't make any sense so dug in deeper and what we found was not only are they in support of biden's policies, but they are not in support of the economy and so it was interesting when we did find that not only were people defecting and going to a third party, rfk being the principal one but it was women that were doing so, so for folks between

the ages of 18 to 49, you had close to 62% of latina women defecting to third party and that speaks to not only the opportunity that both biden and harris have to talk go the issues bread and butter to those communities they care about but demonstrates the real frustration that the economy while for many people is doing well, for folks at the bottom, it is not. i'll give you an example. when we polled 18 to 29-year-old latino voters in arizona and nevada, over 35% of them, willie, had said they had signed fun for government assistance in the last year. over 22% had signed up for a second job. so these are indicators of people usually that are in their mid-30s oftentimes leading up single households and that's not the case with young people between 18 and 29 so it's going to be about the economy and how do you talk about it to bring back these voters to the democratic progressive movement. >> maria, as you talk about the

economy, i also observed from your polling that robert kennedy jr.'s picking up some latino support and i do remember years ago he and i separately went to jail protesting the navy bombings in vieques, puerto rico, and has standing there though he's made correcting moves like this coming out saying he felt bad they took robert e. lee's statue down in charlottesville. how much focus do you think should be put, if any, on kennedy's record or deal with the fact that the alternative for the interests of the latino community may not be in people like kennedy and others who have contradictory pasts on issues that matter to latino vote jers. >> reverend, you hit the nail on the head. the challenge is is that no one really knows what kennedy stands for. they have the brand of kennedy

that his family brings in social justice and believes in equity but when you look at his record that is not the case. now is the moment for the campaigns to define kennedy and demonstrate he's also an extremist right along the lines of donald trump. he is an antivaxxer. he believes -- he literally quote had a visceral reaction to taking down confederate statues and when you ask about abortion he keeps flip-flopping. if you ask about the economy he does not have an answer so you're absolutely right, reverend. he is an individual that has not been defined but it is time to take him seriously and talk to individuals to recognize that a vote for him is a vote for donald trump. >> all right, president and ceo of voto latino, maria teresa kumar, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. and coming up, democratic senator john fetterman of pennsylvania joins us for the look at how the presidential race is shaping up in his

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beautiful live picture of the white house. 7:38 in the morning. president biden and vice president harris together will head to philadelphia later today for a campaign event at gerard college as biden and former president trump are running neck and neck in the keystone state

and joining us live democratic senator of pennsylvania john fetterman. senator, thanks for being here. we appreciate it. so let's start there with the president's visit. obviously this is a must win state for him as it was last time. what would be your advice as someone who has a strong approval rating in the state of pennsylvania right now to the president about what he needs to tell voters there? >> well, i don't have any kinds of advice for him. you know, he's already won in 2020 and he's going to win in this one as well. i fundamentally believe that it's going to be a close race. i've been saying that same conversation since 2016, and it's going to be -- that's what happened in 2016, trump was able to beat, but biden carried pennsylvania by 80,000 votes and now he has a strong record, but it's still going to be close, and for that eight years trump has a strong kind of position in pennsylvania. he definitely does, but i don't believe he can win ultimately.

>> when you talk to your constituents, senator, right now, what are they telling you? is it inflation that concerns them most, health care? what are the issues top of mind. >> absolutely. i really do think, though, that the main issue is like the personalities. it's like what do you want? do i want that chaos and that kind of just depravity or do you want like a decent president that got us through the pandemic, that has been addressing inflation, and now has been addressing wars both in the ukraine and in gaza as well too. if you really think that trump is going to make any of those situations better, i mean, that's their choice, but i do believe that enough pennsylvanians are going to decide that this is our guy, that's my guy. in 2022 people were like, well, i don't know if you can campaign. absolutely. i was proud to campaign with the president, and all these polls now, i'm not really concerned about that. the polls had me that i was going to lose by up to one or two points and we won by five,

so i do believe that it's a very close race. >> senator, you have been the strongest arguably the strongest supporter of israel and prime minister netanyahu of any democrat no matter what prime minister netanyahu chooses to do in carrying out the war in gaza, you support it. now, clearly you must understand we're not sitting around the table with the joint chiefs of staff here, but the question is, with the way netanyahu has waged the war, don't you think it might be the single best recruiting tool for hamas ever conceived? >> well, i do want to just address that it's not so much that a supporter of netanyahu. i follow israel on that and that is their democratically elected leader but anybody in that situation i'll lean in on democracy on that situation. i'll absolutely trust and work with somebody like netanyahu

before i would work with hamas or some of the other places in play there as well too and it's a very difficult situation in gaza. but i do believe that hamas can be allowed to operate if there's going to be any enduring peace in this situation. >> so following up on the war there, we obviously had this strike at a tent camp in rafah in recent days that killed several dozen civilians. >> awful. >> did you think that crossed some sort of red line? should the u.s. now change how it supports israel in terms of conditioning weapons and the like? >> yeah, that tragedy, it's heartbreaking to see -- i saw the pictures. i always review all those kind of pictures but also is a truth about this war and that's what hamas, hamas, those cowards hide behind civilians and now it's becoming more there was a dump of munitions that exploded where hamas is hiding them and that added more damages that way as well, so and i don't understand why if hamas wants peace they

could have taken that cease-fire deal a couple weeks ago or they could surrender right now if they were concerned about that but they are all about trying to hang on because there's no connection to the suffering of palestinians. they don't seem to care how many die or anything. but i do believe israel does try to minimize that but it's a very difficult war when they have to wage a war when they have hamas hiding behind the civilians. >> well, what happened with -- in rafah was atrocious, but i want to bring you back to your home state since the president and vice president is going there today, particularly around black voters. you had the agricultural subcommittee and one of the things in the senate that you emphasized that has a real disproportionate impact on blacks in your state and nationwide is s.n.a.p. and the fact that there are those

bringing s.n.a.p.'s funding down and a lot of what this is from the senate down to the house is on substantive issues and s.n.a.p is one of them not because of a stereotype but because of our economic disadvantages disproportionately in the black community. >> i couldn't agree more. i'm chair of the subcommittee for nutrition and that's where s.n.a.p is. if they try to cut that i've been inspired by my wife, my wife has been part in food insecurity there and i just know that this is a critical issue and we can't cut that. if you go after hungry people, i've said it's like, well, i'm willing to be the democratic version of tuberville to jam that up, that bill until we deliver the critical -- that we're not going to mess with s.n.a.p. and it's unconscionable

and by star to go after hungry people. >> senator, i want to ask about the bill you introduced with senator tina smith of wisconsin, a mental health bill, something you've been open in talking about in your own life. what would this bill do to address mental health crises in this country? >> well, it is just such a red and blue county situation. and if it may not have touched you personally, mental health but i can almost guarantee you that there's something you love, someone you work with and i never realized if my voice or that conversation matters, but people reach out all the time and say, i've helped and i've went and got help or perhaps i even saved their life and that's a conversation that i thought originally didn't think that was a big political winner but i wanted to have that conversation. in fact, i had one with joe, and he was really gracious and it's an important conversation we have to have here and address it on a national level and it's very bipartisan and i think it's

a critical issue especially now suicide rate is now all-time high. we crossed 50,000 americans took their lives which has never happened before. >> the awareness is there, thanks in part to you nationally about mental health. people talking about it more than they ever have. what would this bill do to then address the problem. >> we need the resources and need to get the help. i was just very, very lucky. i was able to check in in walter reed and that's not a lot of americans can do that, but because that's not possible, what i can do is i'm going to pay it forward and i'm going to have that conversation, very difficult conversations, mental health, self-help, self-harm, and we want to make sure there's more resources and to allow and address the issues that make it more difficult for some people, particularly those in rural parts, of our nation it's difficult to get help. >> democratic senator john fetterman of pennsylvania, it's called the united states senate commission on mental health act of 2024. we appreciate you being here this morning.

thank you. >> thanks for having me. coming up next, grammy award-winning singer an songwriter darius rucker live in our studio and talk to him about his new memoir "life's too short" which gives us a candid background about his upbringing. "morning joe" coming right back.

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♪ ♪ that is country music star, darius rucker, performing the song "wagon wheel." now the three-grammy winner is out with a book "life is too short," and darius joins us now. you know, darius, it's still

kind of strange to say country star, because, you know, we all grew up with hootie. what i loved in the book is you talking about how everybody said, no, you can't do that. it rips a page out of charles ray's life where he said i'm going to do a country album. now everybody is like what a great idea. but it was not a great idea at first, was it? >> no, it was pbt. everybody telling me it was going to ruin my career, but i wanted to do it and we had the songs and music and i thought, let's try it. >> i want to talk about your massive rise, and it seems like one day you weren't there, and the next day you sold 25 million

albums. as a young man you say, that's cool, and as an older guy, me as a parent, i go, whoa, that's a lot of incoming for a kid and i wouldn't wish that on any of my children. talk about how dizzying that was. >> oh, it was crazy. we were going on and doing our shows and when letterman happened, we went on and sold many records every week, and like you said, all the money coming in and all that stuff, it was -- it was crazy. that's the only word i could use, crazy. >> you did letterman on a friday night and by monday morning it was different? >> that's it. letterman on a friday and monday was totally different. >> when i read the book, i read about your late mother, she

passed away well before any of this, but it seems to me she is with you on almost every song you sing? >> absolutely. everything i do was to make her proud. everything i do in my life, because she was such a great person and in my corner, and growing up a black kid, and my brothers and sisters would give me a hard time and she would stand up and say, let that boy listen to whatever he wants to listen to. >> she could sing, right? >> yeah, amazing voice. i would just sit and listen to her sing. >> this crossover into music happened about 16 years or so and was she with you when you made that decision? we talked about people that were not subtle about why you should not go into country.

>> yeah, people said that to my face, and i said, play the song and let's see what happens and we proved them wrong. >> how did you navigate go into country music, and being successful, and having to deal with audiences, the barrier that seemed to be there, somehow of what charles ray had, it wasn't there, and i never saw james brown so invited to the grand ole opry. >> it was the gatekeepers that said it was not going to work and not the people that listen.

i said to myself, no matter what i go through, charlie pride went through way more than what i went through. >> you went through 50 cities? >> yeah. >> country? >> no, this was hootie in the summer. absolutely. >> so what happens, 50 cities, how long a period of time will you do 50 cities? >> we start tomorrow and go through october. for us, you know, we don't play very often, and this is probably the last time we would do this and we decided to make it a big tour. >> the stones are still on the road. >> if i look like mick when i am that old, i'll be out there.

i just wanted to tell my story. i just feel like there's only a couple guys -- me and charlie pride until now, and now beyonce and willie jones are now there, and it was the rise of of a kid and now i am on "morning joe" today. >> we would like to talk about sec football. >> absolutely. >> as a southerner, somebody from the north may not get it, but in the south it's crazy. we grow up in this hodgepodge of

r & b and gospel. most southerners you talk to, they get it, they can go from gospel to r & b to gospel just like that. talk about how growing up in the south made it so much more seamless to you? >> you are absolutely right. music in the south is linear. it's not really a genre. everybody listens to everybody. for me, growing up and hearing everything, from hearing the grand ole opry, and al green, who was my idol, it's just music to us and that's how it was for all my friends. >> when is the columbia stop? >> it's during football season. >> i knew it would be. >> congratulations on the book,

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held the surprise event, and we will tell you who was there. also ahead, days after an israeli air strike ignited a deadly fire at a camp for displaced palestinians. but let's dive into our story, after 21 days of heated testimony, the defense and the prosecution delivered closing arguments yesterday in donald trump's criminal hush-money trial. nbc news legal correspondent, laura jarrett, as that for us. >> prosecutors closing their case, arguing former president trump orchestrated a criminal conspiracy to influence the 2016 election, to pull the wool over voter's eyes, they say, by ordering the payment of stormy daniels and then covering it all up.

a key conversation was secretly recorded by michael cohen, where mr. trump discussed an alleged payoff of a different woman, and steinglass calling it jaw dropping. much of this was focused on the credibility of michael cohen. quote, we didn't pick him up at the store, the defendant chose him. telling jurors, you don't need michael cohen to connect these dots, but as the ultimate insider, he can do just that. and the defense described cohen as desperate to put trump behind bars, pointing to cohen's podcast. >> you better believe i want this man to go down.

>> steinglass said cohen is understandably angry because mr. trump dropped him like a hot potato after the feds in 2018, and urging the jurors to see it's not about cohen, but trump. todd blanche tore into the prosecution, and branded cohen the greatest liar of all-time, and the mvp of liars saying he lied to congress, bankers, his family, and he came in here and raised his right hand and lied to you repeatedly, and cohen was confronted with phone records suggesting he never spoke to mr. trump about daniels in an october 2016 phone call lasting just 96 seconds, but instead called donald trump's bodyguard

to complain about a teenage prank caller. he told you he spoke to president trump, and that is a lie and he committed perjury. he argued none of the documents were false, and merely generated by accounting software at the trump organization, and there was nothing wrong with it. president trump is innocent, blanche said, there's no crime, period. >> this is not a trial -- it's a sad thing, this is a dark day in america. >> here's the timeline for today's proceedings. judge juan merchan will give the jury instructions at 10:00 eastern time, expected to last about an hour, and after that jury selections will begin.

the jury will deliberate until 4:30 this afternoon and scheduled for thursday and friday will depend on the jury's progress. let's bring in litigator and msnbc correspondent, lisa ruben, and chuck rosenberg also with us, and the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire. lisa, you were at your post at the courthouse yesterday. michael cohen, the star witness, as he believes he is, is the liar, the greatest liar of all-time as todd blanche put it, and to the prosecution says he is, and that's why donald trump counted on him to do his dirty deeds. how did that play out in court yesterday? >> one of the things that is missing from the juxtaposition there is how much evidence the prosecution has that has absolutely nothing to do with michael cohen. if you listen to todd blanche yesterday, michael cohen is the central character in the drama,

and if you listened to the prosecution, he's nothing more than a narrater and a tour guy through the mountain of evidence. he acknowledged what michael cohen is and was. he was saying, again, you played this clip from laura, we didn't pick him up at the witness store. we didn't choose this guy, the defendant chose this guy and he chose him exactly for the characteristics his lawyers are telling you now makes him untrustworthy, and i thought that was a good moment of steinglass. >> three hours from donald trump's defense team, and then almost five hours from the prosecution. at the end of the day, what did it add up to you? >> it added up to about eight hours -- >> math, very good. >> i was told there would be

math a this test. i was prepared. listen, i think that's too much. part of that is formed by my own experience as a prosecution in a district where if i begged for 30 minutes to close a case like this, i would have gotten 20. i don't know what the right amount is. i know prosecutors and defense attorneys, you know, want to say everything they can because if they leave something unsaid, they will believe that was the thing that made the difference in their case, so i get it. i think it's too much and i think there's a law of diminishing marginal return. >> walk us through what seemed like an important part in the courtroom yesterday, and he was admonished him when blanche said you might send this guy to jail, and the judge said, whoa.

>> it was an instruction where they are not to take that into consideration. blanchism experienced, and as chuck knows and even i know, you don't mention anything in summations having to do with sentencing. why? because that's the provence of the judge. the jury has absolutely nothing to do with the sentence. by raising the specter of prison, that was a big no no, particularly given who the defendant is here because what blanche was trying to do is think about who you might be sending to prison. this is the former president of the united states, almost trying to elevate the burden improperly. the curetive instruction was you are not to think about this. sentencing is totally for me to deal with, and there's not necessarily a sentence of imprisonment that would go with a conviction. and if you are the prosecution, that's the best possible position to be in because he has

lifted that extra burden blanche wanted to place on the verdict, and you might convict this guy and he may never do a day in prison so don't trouble yourself about it. >> mika, there are two lawyers on the jury, and i hear michael cohen is a liar and michael cohen is that, and everybody is focusing on michael cohen, and just as a lawyer, and you also are lawyers, and when you get back there, you are looking at the documents. again, it seems to me if you have two lawyers that are going to be back there, they are going to be saying, okay, doesn't matter whether you like that guy or not, it's in the documents. we got the evidence here, whether that evidence acquits donald trump or convicts him, i wonder if that's your thought as well?

>> yeah, i agree with that, joe. if i have a good case, good evidence, good documents, good witnesses, all are welcome to the jury. lawyers, zoologists, i don't care. also, you can't look at anyone person and describe if they would or would not be a good juror based on your occupation. but i think you are right, i think lawyers take a particularly rigorous approach to analyzing evidence and following instructions. again, if i have a good case, that's exactly what i want. >> so let's look ahead to today, guys, and lisa, the jury instructions 10:00 this morning, and expected to last an hour and then in the hands of the jury, this case. why are the jury instructions so important to what happens next? >> because the jury instructions inform how the jurors understand what are complicated charges here. remember, the charge is not about hush-money itself, but

falsifying records, and falsified in the service of committing another crime. what does it mean to have the intent to defraud, for example? the prosecution alleges there are unlawful means, and we know that judge merchan's final jury instructions allow for the jurors not to have a meeting of the minds but what their own opinions are to what that is, and there's a grab bag of what that could be. in particular look for an instruction on what it means to falsify business records with the emphasizing on cause, and

there's a cause aspect of it. it doesn't matter trump may have never seen the invoices or ledger entries, if he set this in motion, he caused them to make these business records in a certain way, that will be enough so long as the jury instructions make clear to the jury that that's what they can find what it means to falsify. >> interesting. i want to read from chuck's new opinion piece in u.s. news and world report. it's entitled "even if he's guilty, trump could be acquitted. justice would still be served. the evidence is compelling that trump directed a plot to conceal the tryst from voters from the 2016 election, and if trump is acquitted or if there's a hung jury, no matter how you feel about his innocence or guilt,

that's okay. our justice system is imperfect, and any endeavor that includes human beings is imperfect. we ask jurors to listen and deliberate and to serve as the conscience of our community. we ask them, actually we empower them to determine whether a defendant is guilty as charged and we must live with that decision whether we agree or disagree with it. >> so -- and chuck, let's just take this one layer deeper, sort of an inception thing. even if he is convicted, there are a lot of legal minds out there that think you have a pretty good appeal on the legal grounds. forget the facts, but on legal grounds on whether this case should have been brought in the first place or not, so again, the wheels of justice grinds slowly, but they grind fine. it's not a slam dunk.

this is not a basketball game. it's a process that over time, as you said, works regardless of the outcome. >> i believe that's right. i tried dozens of cases, joe, as a federal prosecutor. number one, i couldn't predict what the jury would do in any of them, and although the overwhelming majority of those cases the jury convicted. but when they don't convict, and it was painful because i still to this day believe in the cases that i brought in which the jury acquitted, and that's painful because i feel as if there was a injustice. but that's not really accurate. when the jury decides, it decides, and everybody in the system knows that's final aside from the appeal you just discussed, joe. that's okay. we live with it. that's our system. we ought to be proud of it. it's flawed and still the best system in the world. justice is a self defining

concept whether acquitted or convicted, the jury has spoken and we must accept that. all citizens must accept that. >> yep. it's that acceptance that is really important. i couldn't agree with you more, chuck. lisa, another factor of this, and everybody is, of course, talking about this is whatever the jury decides and waiting to see what the jury will come up with, but one thing you have been studying in court is the judge. it's impossible not to and he's an important player throughout all this, and just studying him, how do you think -- you have already made it clear that his instructions, you expect them to be specifically clear, especially around certain subjects, but if they can't decide, how long can he keep them in there and would he? >> it's a difficult question to know, mika, but i think what he will do is encourage them to

continue to deliberate, and if they are having trouble, encourage them to deliberate until they are absolutely possible that no more movement can happen. this is a judge that earned the respect of observers in the courtroom of his demeanor, and he has the quintessential temperament, and all juries love the judge that care for them, and my expectation is this particular jury has affection for judge merchan who has maintained an even temper even through the most trying of times, so if he says to them, i am going to encourage you to go back to the jury room and continue to deliberate, i think they will take that seriously unless there's absolutely no possibility that they can reach a verdict. now, of course, there are 34

counts here, and so one possibility is that they convict on certain counts and hang on others, and that may be a situation where he's more than willing to let them come back hung on certain counts, in particular, because donald trump signed nine of the checks, one possibility here is you see a mixed verdict where the jury comes back and says we will hold him accountable with the counts having to do with the checks he personally signed, and on the others, we are having trouble. >> to have made your closing argument and it's in the hands of the jury, and to read their faces and reactions all these weeks, what does it feel like to sit and wait to see what the jury will decide? >> absolutely flipping miserable. i hated it. there's nothing you can do at that point, willie. it's out of your hands entirely.

what i mostly did is pace the halls, and i would wonder in the courtroom and back out, and i would try to eat lunch but couldn't. i would try to turn my attention to the next case but i couldn't. it's funny, i have had juries come back quickly where it was a complex case and i thought would take a long time and i had juries take a long time on simple cases. it's unpredictable. >> in a case like this, give us an estimate of how long it could take? >> my only sense of that is there are counts and lots of documents, and there's a bit of folklore attached to a verdict on a friday, and jurors will work hard at the end of the week so they don't have to come back next week, but that's not a rule or law, just something i

observed on occasion. i didn't know when my own juries would come back, and so it's hard to say when this one will come back. >> chuck and lisa, thank you so much for coming on this morning. we will see you soon. still ahead this morning on "morning joe," the latest from the middle east following the deadly strike on a tent camp in gaza housing displaced palestinians. why the white house says israel's actions in rafah so far have not crossed president biden's red line. richard haus joins us next with his expert analysis. we're back in 90 seconds.

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it appears the munitions used in israel's deadly strike in rafah were made in the united states. that's according to the "new york times" which spoke to weapons experts and reviewed visual evidence. while the attack received international condemnation, israel is still pushing forward with its offensive in the southern gaza city. nbc news international correspondent, raf sanchez, has the latest. >> palestinians fleeing rafah any way they can as news crews saw israeli forces pushing into the city for the first time, but the white house says it has not

seen israel pushing into the biden administrations red line. while outside the city, 21 people killed, and denning they attacked a safe zone. it comes two days after an israeli strike ignited this firestorm at a camp, raising international criticism, they used bombs to target two hamas commanders. >> our munitions alone could not have ignited a fire of this size. >> they say the hidden hamas weapons may have caused the blast and offered no evidence. one official said a gas tank could have sparked the flames. the u.s. military has been forced to halt aid deliveries

into gaza by sea after officials said bad weather damaged the pier. it shows part of the causeway floating away from the beach, and military boats washed up on the coast of israel and gaza over the weekend. >> nbc's raf sanchez reporting for us from israel. and now joining us, richard haus. always great to have you at the table with us. let's talk about this red line. admiral kirby saying yesterday what we saw outside of rafah in the refugee camp where 45 to 50 refugees were killed after the explosion that came after the bomb in horrific pictures that are making their way around the world, that did not cross the

red line. so this is a rhetorical question, what does the red line mean? >> not to go into rafah the way israel previously went into gaza, and so the red line -- how would i call it, willie, it was set high. it was how israel was going to do this? >> how much pressure is this -- what is the relationship with prime minister netanyahu as we see these horrible images? >> i helped to break the story before kirby's appearance, and the relationship with netanyahu is not good, and there's still bad feelings between the two men and the administration wishes

they would show more caution in rafah. the missile that was used was u.s. supplied, and in part because it can be more targeted to try and avoid incidents like this, tragic incidents like this. we heard from the vice president yesterday, joe, saying it was tragic. short of a full-on invasion of rafah, this president is still supportive of the campaign. >> well, and richard, what happens if israel -- obviously, richard, the president doesn't want israel to use a large ordinance, like you said, that they did in the early phase of the war where israel was condemned for using massive bombs in civilian areas, and at the same time, richard, what is

israel to do? are they supposed to just sit there while conditions in rafah get worse, while the possibility of famine spreads, and while hamas regroups? i mean, i -- let's just state the obvious. the united states would never do this. we didn't do this in mosul. we didn't do this in afghanistan. we didn't do this in iraq. we didn't do this in vietnam. we didn't do this in world war ii. if we were struck, we struck back until we won the war. i guess what confuses me is, what -- is it -- is it in the united states or israel's best interest that israel just sits outside and rafah and the suffering continues indefinitely, or do they go in and kill hamas terrorists?

>> here's the dilemma, joe. israel obviously decided to degrade hamas. there's major military elements of hamas left. here's the but. in the course of doing that, you had the incident like the other day, 40 plus innocent people got killed, and that stuff will happen again and again. this further isolates israel, and makes it impossible for the saudis to normalize, and becomes a recruiting tool for future generations of palestinians and still doesn't solve the problem of what comes next. the administration has to ask, it's not if they crossed a red line, but the question is, is this still wise? is it worth it? is this helping israel. is this helping the united

states? it's not about how israel is going about it now, but does it make sense? the united states has to raise the question, should we be supporting a cease-fire that the benefits of the israel operation don't outweigh the costs, and so i think the first order of question is not the red line issue. i think for the administration, it's whether to come out publicly against what israel is doing. the israelis are going to say if we do that, we have got to finish the job. the republic is going to say that. the problem with that argument, joe, this is not finished, and israel continues to fight a unconventional war in an unconventional setting. i am not sure the benefits will justify the costs. >> i remember on 9/11 watching

the towers fall, and the second that happen, i knew, i just knew, we were going to war and eventually bin laden would be killed. and on october 7th, i knew hamas could never rule gaza again. you are correct, they can't eliminate every hamas terrorists, and certainly, israel, the united states, and yes, our arab neighbors, our arab allies in that region would all agree that hamas can never rule gaza again. how do we get to that point? >> 100%. in order to do that you need a comprehensive strategy. yes, you degrade hamas and hamas has been significantly degraded even without the operation, but then you have to come up with a political alternative. you have to build the situation where there's other reputation

for palestinians, and you have to build a situation where you have others providing security. >> richard, it's not a zero sum game. it's not all or nothing, but at what point does hamas have to be degraded so the saudis and jordanians and the united states, our allies can go in and rebuild gaza and have an arab peacekeeping force to keep the peace? >> two things, joe. what is keeping the saudis and others from going in is not the remaining strength of hamas, but it's what comes after, and only israel is refusing to put that on the table now, and that's why the saudis and others need to create a international force. any international force that goes into gaza is not going to be a peacekeeping force but it's

going to be called a peace making force. there are pockets and elements of resistance. people are going to get killed doing this. people have to understand this. it's going to require a lot of elements for a long time. but what is holding the arabs back from getting into gaza, and a political strategy. they need political government from this israeli government that refused to get it, because there's no consensus in this israeli government to allow the palestinian authority to be part of whatever arab force is created in gaza. >> mika, let's not kid ourselves, they also want before they send their peacekeeping or peacemaking forces in, they want

as many terrorists killed as possible, so their soldiers coming in can actually keep the peace. >> in all of this, barely a mention of the hostages, richard. is there any hope for their return? i don't even hear them as part of this conversation. >> mika, you are right. i think what is increasingly the tragic reality is there's probably not a lot of hostages left who are alive. i think that's increasing the operating assault, and there are people in israel who say let's have a cease-fire, and we reached the point of diminishing returns, and let's get an accounting and the hostages back. that's one school of thought. and the other is what joe is suggesting, let's allow this to go on further and degrade hamas, with the idea that most hostages are not coming back alive. that consideration has faded. that's a powerful -- how would i

put it -- debate in israel. the priority of the war versus the priority of the hostages, and a lot of people military and otherwise have come down on the other side. hanging over the world's number one golfer. we will have a follow-up on the arrest of scottie scheffler, next on "morning joe." ning joe." so this is pickleball? it's basically tennis for babies, but for adults. it should be called wiffle tennis. pickle! yeah, aw! whoo! ♪♪

these guys are intense. we got nothing to worry about. with e*trade from morgan stanley, we're ready for whatever gets served up. dude, you gotta work on your trash talk. i'd rather work on saving for retirement. or college, since you like to get schooled. that's a pretty good burn, right? got him. good game. thanks for coming to our clinic, first one's free.

there are new signs this morning pointinging to a possible dismissal of the charges against world number one golfer, scottie scheffler. the attorney announced yesterday he will address allegations against the golfer in court this afternoon, while scheffler's lawyer is set to hold a news conference outside the courthouse afterwards.

neither side provided details about today's event. scheffler was arrested earlier this month charged with felony assault of a police officer and three misdemeanors. the louisville detectives involved in the arrest said scheffler disregarded instructions and struck him with his vehicle, and the detective did not activate his body cam during the incident. scheffler was booked and released in time to participate in the pga tournament. it looks like these might go away and the officer's initial account doesn't match up to the video we saw. >> that's exactly what it looks like. quite honestly, the charges never should have been brought. can we talk about the golf for a second? >> go ahead. >> amazing, this guy gets

arrested and does a stretching in the jail and goes out and shoots an under 5 par round. this sets a world record for compartmentalization. let's be clear. >> he said, mike, he was sitting in the jail cell doing his stretching hoping he would get to the course in time for tee time, and he was sitting there watching on tv them talking about the arrest. >> 8:30 that morning, scottie scheffler is wearing an orange jumpsuit in prison, fingerprinted, booked, photographed, and then the idea as you mentioned, richard, he goes back to the golf course and

shoots a 66. the mind game involved in that had to be phenomenal. >> it was. he's number one for a reason. he would have been in the thick of the tournament if he did not have that one round the next day. the idea that we are having this conversation, it's both wonderful and preposterous. the idea that the legal machinery of kentucky is focusing on this when i suspect there's one or two real problems they may have to focus on. just sayin'. >> aren't you relieved we are talking about this? >> i am, but i am ready to talk about baseball. >> a historic performance on the mound yesterday in san diego, the longest strikeout streak in baseball's expansion era, adding another three last night to complete a 4-0 shutout of the

miami marlins, and his number is at 13, and he's a relief pitcher, and all strikeouts in that streak have been swinging. >> it's extraordinarily impressive. and speaking of baseball, the negro league, its stats -- josh gibson is now because of the move will be the all-time leader in these categories. career batting average at 3.72, ops, nearly 1200. season slugging nearly .1000 and so on. >> i think they never got their do because of the racial climate in this country for well over 100 years, and the idea that there are three or four members of the negro list on that list,

the top all-time hitters, and it's a wonderful thing for all the players. according to politico, democrats are in a full-blown freakout over president biden's chances -- >> i mean, what's new. they have been in a full-blown freakout in 2020, 2022 -- >> okay. >> it's what they do. it's a bug and not a feature. >> that's straight ahead on "morning joe." ight ahead on "morning joe." (husband) we just want to have enough money for retirement. (wife) and travel to visit our grandchildren.

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coming up, a live report from the new york city courthouse where a jury will soon deliberate on whether

former president donald trump is guilty of 34 felony charges. a recap of the closing arguments and what is still ahead when "morning joe" comes right back. hi, i'm jason. i've lost 228 pounds on golo. ♪ i don't ever want to go back to wearing a 4xl shirt or not being able to climb up stairs without taking a break. so i'm committed to golo for life.

welcome back. mental health-related leaves of absences in the workplace are surging and it turns out the increase is largely being driven by women. that's according to new research from the mental health service provider com psych. the company found that mental health-related absences were aup 300% between the years of 2017 and 2023. and get this, up 33% in 2023 alone. here to discuss editor of forbes women maggie mcgrath and msnbc contributor huma abedin. she's vice chair of the forbes and know your value 3050 summit.

maggie, you're covering this for forbes, what is going on? >> there are so many factors at play. we know from conversations not just with sources but with our friends and families that women are feeling stressed, overwhelmed, unsupported and in some cases not understood by the people around them at work and at home. the american psychological association found that women are more likely than men to report feeling stressed and are more likely to report stress levels eight out of ten -- eight or ten out of ten. meanwhile, we know from the mckinzy women in the workplace report that women are more likely than men to be belittled, demeaned or dismissed at work, known as microaggressions and women who experience this treatment are three times more likely than those who don't to consider quitting their jobs. i would know that lindsey koehler covered this story for us and she says that women are

considering leaves of absence more so than quitting because they're looking for support and resources. >> right. so huma, the research found that anxiety has overtaken depression as the top mental health concern. are you surprised? what are you hearing? >> you know, i'm not surprised. and just an anecdote alley i think about the last couple of years the number of conversations i have had in the office, in lunches, a the dinners with other female professional friends talking about their levels of anxiety, their daughters' levels of anxiety. when you look at the top five mental health concerns that came out this have report, the top being anxiety, second being stress, relationships coming in third, general psychological issues and depression being the fifth, i think the reality is they are all intersected and one of the interesting things a mental health expert who runs com psych said is that oftentimes relationship issues are always high on people's --

women's concern list and maybe the underlying issues are actually anxiety and depression, but maggie and i were just talking about this just before we got on. 300% is a high number, but it's also -- you have to look on the bright side is it's a more socially-acceptable conversation. we are able to talk about these things today, which i think is a good thing that we aren't comfortable talking about in the past. >> absolutely. at know your value i talk to women about the big ask because it's not just about negotiating salaries or negotiating a job, it's about getting that line of communication going, building that relationship, if it's possible, so that when you do have an ask it feels natural, whether it's flexibility or time off or different hours. those are some of the things that we need to learn to ask for so that we can achieve longevity as well as success in the workplace. so, huma, what more can we be doing from a company and a policy perspective to improve

mental health, the conditions particularly for women at work? >> well, just the fact that you had senator fetterman talking about a mental health commission earlier on "morning joe," having policymakers talking, normalizing a conversation around mental health is really important, but in terms of a company perspective, manager -- managerial perspective, there are some key sort of simple things that we can do to improve the environment for people who work for us. number one is not overloading our teams. this idea of unsustainable work loads, resourcing teams properly is really important. i am a victim of that, i do it to myself and i feel like i do it to people i work with. i think showing your vulnerable side is another thing that came out of this story is really important as leaders. having your ah-ha moment. mika, i know you had your ah-ha moment. to say i need some mental health support. i am overworked, i am exhausted. how do we do a reset?

i think that helps, you know, employees see when their leadership has those issues, which leads to normalizing talking about mental health. the third thing on the list and finally and, maggie, you do -- sorry, mika, you do this for maggie and me in our know your value work, which is what is the culture of empathy in our workplace? how is this person doing? how many zooms do the three of us do and you text us afterwards, is aaliyah doing okay, is so-and-so doing okay? i have a colleague that gives their staff mental health fridays. great. finding sort that have culture -- professional culture i think is really important and you're showing us that leadership and i think plenty of women are doing the same thing today. >> well, i appreciate that. and, maggie, while we are at it, we're currently looking for amazing women to nominate themselves for the fourth annual 50 over 50 u.s. list, and today we have an exciting -- you can nominate someone else as well, i'm just all about

self-advocation. you have an exciting announcement. tell our viewers about it. >> we have seen so much enthusiasm around this list. i am thrilled to report that today thanks to popular demand we are extending the nominations deadline by one week to june 7th. it was originally a day from now, but you have an extra week. so please tell us about yourself, tell us about a woman you admire who is creating her greatest professional impact over the age of 50. you have until 11:59 p.m. eastern on june 7th. head to forbes.com or know your value to nominate yourself. >> all right. thank you so much. for more information of course go to those websites. maggie mcgrath, huma abedin, always great to have the team together. we will see you again soon. and coming up, it is deliberation day for the jury in donald trump's criminal hush money trial. we will have the latest from the courthouse in lower manhattan. that is straight ahead on "morning joe."

all right. welcome back to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it's 6:00 on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. you are looking at new york city where our top story of the hour is about to play out in the next hour right here. joining us now the host of the podcast "on brand" with donny deutsch, and special correspondent at vanity fair and host of the "fast politics" podcast molly john fast, she is an msnbc political analyst. less than an hour from now judge juan merchan will give the jury in donald trump's criminal hush money trial its instruction. this comes a day after both sides presented their closing arguments. nbc news senior legal correspondent laura jarrett has

the details. >> reporter: donald trump waking up this morning with his legal fate soon resting in the hands of 12, after both sides wrapped up a marathon of closing arguments. >> this is a very dangerous day for america. >> reporter: prosecutor joshua steinglass inn plorg the jury to use, quote, common sense, argue rg the former president conspired to corrupt the 2016 election by ordering michael cohen pay off stormy daniels so she couldn't derail his campaign. steinglass saying we will never know if this effort to hood wink the american voter in the 2016 election made a difference, but that's not something we have to prove. what prosecutors do need to prove, 34 business records, invoices, ledger entries and check stubbs were all falsified. the state highlighting these references to a legal retainer with cohen that never existed. lies, prosecutors say, a bogus paper trail meant to disguise the real reason trump repaid cohen for silencing daniels. but todd blanche argued cohen

was mr. trump's attorney, that not false, just a word generated by accounting software, no evidence because mr. trump was too busy running the country in 2017. blanche urging the jury to see the state's case resting on one man, cohen, branding him the gloat, the greatest liar of all time. telling jurors you cannot send somebody to prison based upon the lies of michael cohen, drawing a sharp rebuke from the judge since prison time is not required if the jury convicts. instructing them to ignore it. while outside of court robert de niro clark with trump supporters. >> we're trying to be gentlemen in this world. >> you are washed up. >> reporter: the actor joining capitol hill officers on hand as surrogates for president biden as nbc news reports the biden campaign tries out a new strategy, no longer shying away from calling attention to mr.

trump's legal jeopardy. >> all right. nbc's laura jarrett with that report. earlier this morning we were joined by biden/harris campaign communications director michael tyler who also spoke at that news conference outside the courthouse. i asked him why the campaign decided to hold that event at the trial. >> we showed up there because the news media has been incessantly posted up there day in and day out for weeks. so as we said last week, we are going to use the next month to talk about the upcoming presidential debate in atlanta and the things that donald trump is going to have to answer for. first and foremost, he's going to answer for the continued threat he pose toss our democracy, his continued embrace of political violence. that's what robert de niro and officers fanone and dunn were speaking to. that donald trump regularly

embraces political violence, is calling for a bloodbath if he loses this election. pledging to rule as a dictator on day one. >> michael, i get everything -- >> focused on -- >> michael, i get everything that you're saying and i agree with the officers who showed up and with robert de niro, but i'm curious about the location. last week when the members of congress showed up to support donald trump, i called it unbecoming of the office. they're serving the people of their district. american citizens. they're not supposed to politicize a court proceeding. just i feel the same way about the campaign. is there any concern about the campaign getting a little bit too close to these court proceedings and could that backfire? any concerns looking back, was it a good decision? >> no there's no concern. this campaign is not speaking about the substance of the trial in any way, shape or form. what we about the substance of the trial in any way, shape or form. what we are talking about, what

we talked about yesterday and what we will continue to talk about is the unique threat that donald trump poses to our democracy. so a lot of the coverage of late has been focused on the stakes for him, but we're making sure that the american people understand the stakes for them. and that's donald trump's potential rise to power if he's able to win this election. this campaign is making sure that he does not. that's why we are engaged and focused on highlighting the stakes, highlighting what he is attempting to do if he's able to regain power, but also highlighting the president's historic record of accomplishment. the positive things that he has done day in and day out for working people across this country. >> molly, what do you think about the biden campaign sending surrogates down there? obviously citizens are free to do what they want, robert de niro, of course, the police officers, the retired police officers. the question is what about the biden campaign itself after -- i

know we and others have been critical of trump politicizing the courthouse. >> so i think it's a really important question, but i also wonder, like, biden world seems that they are really interested in trying to break through and i think that that is more anxiety about trying to break through this -- i mean, we are in this weird moment in american life where newspapers don't necessarily reach people and cable news reaches only a fraction and i think that biden world is trying everything they can to break through and i think that in itself is actually quite a good thing because we've seen other presidential campaigns, especially on the democratic side, be very anxious about trying different things and i think trying different things is really good. >> right. >> but, you know, i don't -- i mean, the whole thing -- you never want trump to drag you down, right? you never want that. and you never want trump to set

the tone. but, i mean, i don't know, i'd still rather have robert de niro speaking for me than matt gaetz or one of those republicans. >> donny, this is tabloid fodder in new york city, this is "the new york daily news," are you talking to me? new york post taking a different tact, raging bs. what's your sense, robert de niro's side, you can talk about that if you want to, but also as we await jury instructions, jury deliberations and a verdict perhaps by the end this have week of what this is going to amount to on the campaign. >> on the de niro thing, i would challenge the biden campaign in general, step away from celebrities. i don't think it helps. i think it kind of almost in a weird way sometimes back fires. those liberal hollywood elites, they're well intentioned and robert de niro is well intentioned but i think staying away from the courthouse would have been the best thing. as far as the trial, i don't think it's going to matter that much.

i'm waiting for it to end to be honest with you. i want trump back on the campaign trail. i actually think if he's convicted, helps a little bit on the margins, a tiny, tiny bit. i think if he's found not guilty i think that's more of a benefit for him than if he's found guilty for the other side. i just do. i want it over. i just think -- i don't think the country cares about t i think the country cares about inflation, they care about abortion, this he care about democracy, they care about the war in gaza. i just think we're talking to ourselves a lot here. i'm not saying it shouldn't have been brought. i want it over. >> so i hear you. i think the biden campaign if anyone is listening to this conversation is probably saying what should we do? you're saying we should get out there, do everything, punch him in the nose with the information, we're doing it and now you're criticizing it. to molly's point, i think it's great to try new things and to try to punch through, so i don't know about stepping away from

the other attempt. the concern i have here s first of all, politicians showing up there, i think, is really below par on a number of levels, but i also -- it gives me a sense of promoting confrontation and, i mean, we've been confronted, it's not -- it's not good out there, the division, and some people are taking it too far, and i just would not want the biden campaign to put themselves in a position where they appeared to be promoting confrontation. >> right. >> fair to say? >> yeah, so -- so i'm of several minds here. i agree with you there. i think, molly, you make a great point, which is democrats -- i mean, when i was a republican i would look at democrats and be like they're so easy to beat because they're so scared of their own shadow. so i'm all for taking chances, and so they took a chance and some people liked it, some people didn't. i would keep my campaign

people -- forget robert de niro or police officers -- they're americans, they're free to go anywhere they want to go. i'd rather them go to wisconsin, michigan and pennsylvania. it's a big old country. >> this is a good point. >> you don't have to be in manhattan. you got that. you've got manhattan nailed down. i'd rather them go there and shake hands with voters in their living rooms, these are going to be a handful of basically congressional races across the upper midwest that determine this election. but i will say to your point, even though i would not have done this, democrats need to take chances and i will tell you this biden campaign is not going to sit flatfooted, they're not going to take chances and i will -- i'm just -- one additional thing, the whining, the complaining from democrats across the country make me want to just tell them to just shut up. >> what are they complaining about? what? >> they are afraid -- afraid biden is going to lose, biden this, biden that, the

campaign -- the campaign, i think -- you know, they're working hard. they're working on the ground. molly, i think sometimes that's obscured by all the cocktail party whining that's going on in manhattan, in georgetown, in beverly hills. they need to stop and get to work. >> so i think you both have really good points. mika's point, again, we have one party that respects american democracy so that is a lot of responsibility, and democrats need to continually say, you know, violence is bad, confrontation is bad, we need to have -- you know, we need to live in a country where we respect each other and we treat each other well. again, political violence is the single scariest most dangerous thing going and we all have to make sure that we unequivocally say that it is important we keep the temperature down. i think mika is completely 100% right on that. and i think that you're totally right, too, joe. there's a lot -- you know, i was at a dinner party in georgetown

this weekend where people were freaking out and there is a lot of anxiety. look, it's not like he's running against mitt romney, it's not like he's winning against w. he is running against someone who has said he's going to start deportation squads and he's going to go after his political rivals and he's going to go after the mainstream media. >> of course. so much is at stake, nothing less than american democracy is at stake. in my opinion i'm just saying, donny, like the whining at cocktail parties doesn't help. if you want to do something, volunteer. if you want to do something, write a check. you want to do something, like, you know, go up to -- go up to a swing state and ask how you can help. i'm just telling you -- and everybody that's watching -- there are a lot of times before alabama went on to the field i knew they were going to win

because saban taught blocking and tackling better than coaching he was going up against. i knew they were going to win. i mean, again, forgive me for the sports -- the sports comparisons, but we'd be down 14-0 at halftime and everybody was like -- eh, blocking and tackling. we're going to wear them down. we're going to win in the end. everybody take a deep breath, saban has a plan. i feel that way about biden. i feel that way about jen o'malley dylan. she's done this before. they're on the ground, they're going from the ground up. they actually are disciplined. i know people think that donald trump has some magic potion. maybe elvis '57 -- 1957 in 2016 did, this is old tired elvis. people know the shtick. at the end of the day blocking

and tackling, grinding it out day after day from may to november makes a difference, donny. >> it does. and i think your point about the whining of democrats, democrats have to turn whining into anger and defiance. we're mad as hell, we're not going to take -- we are not going to let our democracy slip away. so i'm all for the punching. the punching really needs to come from joe biden. they have to get fierce and angry and determined and vigilant and the tone -- there is this almost defeatist thing, joe biden and donald trump -- no, we're not going to let that happen. it needs to be kind of almost a revolutionary attitude that we are the last stand, we are defending our country because the reality is if we don't, it's over. and i say to people all the time, do you want your grandchildren to have a vote? then you better vote for joe biden. it's that simple. >> and people can get angry if they want torques i mean, i personally -- i'd just rather be

determined, willie. >> anger is good. >> focus on -- i've got to tell you in a campaign -- i mean, you know, feigned -- feigned outrage, i don't know if there's outrage. but as far as, again, the blocking and the tackling. i don't want somebody so angry that they are out of their mind they don't know their assignment. my statement is whatever is scaring you, whatever is making you angry, it needs to drive you to focus on work. work. work. that's how you win campaigns, knocking on doors, planting yard signs in people's yards, making phone calls, organizing, willie. that's why, i guess, all the whining on the upper east side and in georgetown, just drives me crazy. it's may. you don't like how things are going? call the campaign and get to work. >> you know, there was less whining when my family and i

over the weekend had dinner at the chick-fil-a dine in in philipsburg, new jersey, off of interstate 78. no whining. to your point it's the old line -- the old president obama line don't boo, vote. you can boo and tweet and do all this signaling. go vote, go get people out, go talk to your neighbor, go get people engaged in that way. molly you get at this in your new piece in "vanity fair." remind people also it's may, there is a long way to go, enjoy your summer, let's come out after labor day and see where we are. >> actually, what's really interesting about these polls and you see them at the top of the ballot and not at the bottom. on the bottom of the ballot i'm talking senate, congress, you see democrats ahead or doing really well. and then at the top of the ticket you see what has happened is -- and nate cohen wrote about this really well in the "times." they're trying to calculate -- they're trying to find these

hidden 2016 voters, the hidden trump voter and calculate them in the polls. so the reality is if those people come out, these numbers will look as they're polling. but these are not high frequency voters. these are not voters who voted in 2022, 2023, 2018. these are these low frequency voters that are a completely different animal. so the polls are maybe right, maybe not right. i still think what is most important is like you'd rather be -- because, remember, we are all slightly freaked out from what happened in 2016. so you'd rather have polls that tried to get more accurate than what happened in 2016. >> no sugar coating here, donny, but in the three states the president has to win, that we talk about every day, pennsylvania, wisconsin and michigan those are margin of error races right now. it's okay to panic, to get serious and focused, but those remain winnable for the president. >> can i get angry if i want to get angry? >> go ahead, donny.

you have the floor. >> look, i think the answer is not to panic, but the answer is you have to be grown up and say we are in an adult fight here. not whistle by a graveyard, but not panic. i think it's a combination of things. i think it's the blocking and tackling. i do think that the passion -- maybe i want to change anger to passion. the passion of democrats and this attitude of -- this wimpy attitude. so i like the attitude of de niro, i don't think he's the right messenger, but that peersness needs to be a democrat, that gung-ho, if you will. >> i'm all for that. >> to your point, those officers, they're all going across the country, especially to key states, arizona, nevada, et cetera, over the next few weeks. so they did make that stop at the courthouse. by the way, we're going to get a live report from the courthouse in lower manhattan as former president trump's criminal hush money trial is turned over to the jury.

that is happening today. also ahead, after nearly a year of sluggish sales, customers are spending more on new sneakers and athletic gear. so are americans once again confident in the economy? cnbc's andrew ross sorkin joins us next to explain. "morning joe" will be right back.

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a new report finds the consumer confidence in the united states rose in may after three straight months of declines, however, the data shows that americans are still anxious about inflation and interest rates. let's bring in the co-anchor of cnbc's "squawk box" andrew ross sorkin, also a columnist for "the new york times." good news, bad news, good news, bad news, welcome to the economy. in this case you just wonder if this is such a lagging indicator, right? so the economy was hot in the last quarter of last year, it slowed down the first quarter of this year, but the consumer

confidence ticks up and you're wondering if they're responding to what they see in the rearview mirror. >> i think that's a little bit of it. it means actually things are maybe a little bit better today. first of all, the expectation is that these consumer confidence numbers were going to go down and they went up. they're now in the mid 70s and so that is a very good sign because it's a sign of jobs, it's a sign of economic conditions, income. that's what this is about. more people saying they're planning to buy a car in the next couple months, more people saying they're going to buy big appliances in the next couple months. all of those are good signs. less folks in a position to buy a new home, that's still not a great number, but what's interesting is if you juxtapose these numbers which are very good numbers against this very bizarre -- it's a different poll but from last week where you have people completely misinformed, but a majority of

the country saying they believe they are in a recession. there's sort of a very interesting sort of dynamic at play here, which is when they're asked they specific questions about your own confidence, it is clearly getting better, and yet when they're asked these sort of broader questions, and i don't know if it's because people are just genuinely misinformed, i don't know what television network they're watching or what they're reading online, but the idea that more than half the country thinks we are in a recession and you can look historically at the data where we are and it's just -- i mean, it is the 180 degrees the opposite. it's very hard to square. >> you know, it could also be that poll. you look at the information right now in this u.s. consumer confidence report, it actually shows americans -- some americans think we may go into a recession within the next year, but many don't think we are there right now. you still ask people individually how they're doing and most americans say they're doing pretty darn good. >> well, that's the interesting

part. if you ask people individually how they're doing, they love to say they're doing pretty well. if you ask them how they think everybody else is doing, they seem to think that everybody is doing quite poorly. i have to imagine that is somewhat the impact of either social media or misinformation -- i just -- it's very hard to fully grapple with. >> yeah, but, you know, donny, people -- people vote for their own best interests, the best interests of themselves, their family, their children, as ronald reagan famously said, a recession is when your neighbor loses his job, a depression is when you lose your job. so you would much rather people be saying, hey, things are going pretty well for us, overall economy not so sure, but for us it's going pretty darn well. those people when they go into the voting booth, they're going to vote their interests and

their family's interests so they can, you know, send their kids off to school, so they can, you know, pay -- keep paying their rent or they can afford a new car or, you know, afford a new house. >> you know, it's interesting. to your point, what's all -- what's everything is how are you doing? are you better than you were four years ago? how are you doing? and the answer is i'm fine. i think when you ask people about the economy, that's become kind of a placeholder for an abstract how are things overall, how are things in the world, how is that macro thing that's not necessarily you. and i don't think that matters as much. i think the important thing in the polls that question, how are you doing and how are you doing and how are your finances doing? the fact that people abstractly say, well, 50% think the dow is down, 50% think unemployment is going in the other direction, those are abstract. yeah, it's not so good over there but it's good with me. to your point, joe, that's what matters in the polls -- i mean, that's what matters in the

voting booth. >> though, andrew, there is such a sharp generational divide. i saw -- i think it was "the new york times" or maybe a "wall street journal" story that said more and more -- maybe you can clarify it for me -- more and more what's required for younger americans to buy a house are mom and dad. suggesting, again, younger americans are really feeling the pinch and we hear it all the time, you hear it all the time, younger americans saying, hey, you guys don't understand what we're going through. we don't live the life that you lived 20 years ago. >> well, there's no question. first of all, you need to have wages -- i mean, this goes to the inflation story, this goes to the interest rate story and right now if you are a young person, buying into a home at this point is very, very difficult. getting a loan at a rate that makes sense is very, very difficult. so i think that is actually a real pain point and a pain point in this economy, it's a pain

point politically and i think that's one of the things you're seeing play out. i do think, you know, on the higher end of the economy, folks have been able to deal with inflation, been able to deal with prices and it's very easy for them to say everything is okay. i think when you do get to the lower end and you do still talk about some of the pricing at supermarkets and the like and gas and homes, that's where people's -- people's lived experience on the lower end of it are challenged. >> hey, andrew, i see behind you when you were talking the dow dropping. again, it goes down, it goes up. here, though, looks already down 300 points. what's going on? >> well, literally i think there is now a sense that there could be a rate hike. we keep talking about inflation and what's happening with interest rates. for a long time we've been talking about are interest rates getting under control and is inflation getting under control so interest rates can come down.

i think now even in the past day and a half, neel kashkari on the board of the fed came out and said that rate hikes are on the table. i think that is starting to get people a little anxious that either the federal reserve is not going to be doing anything this this calendar year, or that potentially if they did something maybe they night even raise rates. if that were to be the case that would have an impact on the valuations of stocks and that's what i think you're seeing a little bit this morning. >> all right. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you, as always. thanks for being on this morning. we're going to turn now for a look at the morning papers, the "montgomery advertiser" is reporting on alabama's decline in ob/gyn residencies. a new analysis from the association of american medical colleges found that applicants for the programs in the state dropped about 21% in 2023 and into this year. medical experts point to alabama's near total abortion ban as the main reason for the

downward trend. >> by the way, look at the record right there, behind. that paper has something that no other paper that i've seen since we've been reporting, they put trump's trial on the front page. >> yes, they have. >> and we've been commenting about how americans -- especially in swing states -- haven't really cared about this trial. >> we're getting to the end of it. >> haven't focused on the trial and we've said, hey, it's not on the front page of any papers. it is there. >> yeah. >> in new jersey. >> and as we get to deliberations and a verdict, i think there will be an uptick in interest. in new jersey, though, "the record" that you are looking at has a look at the growing rate of buyers remorse for u.s. homeowners. according to survey from bank rate 47% of current homeowners across the country say they have regrets. the most common regret was underestimating maintenance and other hidden costs associated

with owning a home. the poughkeepsie journal is highlighting the contrast between opioid deaths in new york compared to the national rate. drug overdose deaths declined slightly across the u.s. last year marking the first dip since 2018, but new york state has the most overdoses per capita with 27 deaths per 100,000 people. "the portland press herald" is covering the newly granted lease from the u.s. government for offshore wind research in maine. the project would be the first of its kind with floating offshore wind turbines in the gulf of maine. right now development plans include building up to 12 floating sites that can generate enough energy to power as many as 144,000 homes. donald trump is headed to the courthouse right now. at the top of the hour, judge juan merchan will give instructions to the jury. there he is walking in.

and then deliberations will begin in the former president's criminal hush money trial. we will get a live report from the courthouse and expert legal analysis next on "morning joe." power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley power e*trade's easy to-use tools make complex trading less complicated. custom scans can help you find new trading opportunities, while an earnings tool helps you plan your trades and stay on top of the market. e*trade from morgan stanley

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♪♪ the hallway is virtually empty, the courtroom filling up now as we are just minutes away from the judge in the donald trump hush money criminal trial giving his instructions to the jury before they begin their deliberation. joining us now from outside the courthouse in lower manhattan nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard, also with you at the table, msnbc contributor barbara mcquaid, danny cevallos and former assistant district attorney in manhattan nbc news legal analyst catherine christian. good morning to you all. vaughan, we will start with you and let you set the scene, what

we expect in the next 20 minutes or so. >> reporter: yeah, good morning, willie. former president trump is actively on his way here to lower manhattan, making his way southbound, the three and a half miles from trump tower. today is the day that the jury could decide on whether he is guilty or acquitted on the 34 felony counts for the falsification of business records. after five weeks of testimony this trial is nearing its end. yesterday the prosecution delivering closing arguments for 4 hours and 40 minutes well after the 8:00 p.m. eastern hour. the defense for donald trump, it's part, three hours of closing arguments. it was a long way for this jury. they are actively here reconvening now inside of this courthouse. at 10:00 a.m. eastern time just a little over 20 minutes from now, the court will formally reconvene. jury instructions will be delivered by judge merchan to these 12 jurors who are going to decide donald trump's fate.

it could well take them hours, it could take them days, it could take them into next week. to note, donald trump has already through this trial cast doubts about the ability of this jury to make a fair and impartial decision. don jr. his son was out here yesterday as well suggesting the exact same thing. but when we are awaiting this verdict to come from this jury, i think it's important context for folks to go back to six weeks ago. during the jury selection process donald trump's attorneys, as well as the prosecutors for the district attorney's office, each had the ability to challenge for cause, each of the jurors before they were seated. of those 12 jurors who were seated, and impaneled by judge merchan, the defense for donald trump only challenged for cause one of those individuals. so 11 of the 12 they were not challenged by this defense team that is going to be the one as soon as here this afternoon to determine donald trump's fate on these 34 felony counts.

willie? >> vaughn hillyard outside the courthouse, we will check back in with you shortly as things begin to develop inside the courtroom. katherine, before we get jury instructions today, yesterday it went all the way to 8:00 last night with long closing arguments from both sides, prosecution's a couple of hours longer, actually, than the defense's. donald trump's defense team effectively saying the prosecution has hung its case on michael cohen and he is a liar, he is not to be believed, that's enough reasonable doubt to push this thing out the door, to which the prosecution has said, no, actually, we've hung this case on a whole bunch of documents, on a whole bunch of evidence we showed you and michael cohen effectively was the tour guide through that evidence. did you find that compelling from the prosecution? >> oh, definitely. they have a mountain of evidence and i believe josh steinglass used that word, mountain. it wasn't just documents, it was witness after witness. witnesses who were associated with donald trump. you know, hope hicks who cried

on the stapp and she was good for the defense in that she said that cohen went rogue, but she also was excellent for the prosecution because she is the communications director of the campaign, told the jury what a bomb that "access hollywood" tape was for the campaign. the crisis. therefore, when stormy daniels appears that would be the reason why it was important to hush her up, in order to continue this conspiracy to promote his election by unlawful means, being that illegal campaign contribution. what josh steinglass did -- it was very long, i thought it was too long, but the verdict is not going to be determined by who was longest, it's going to be determined by the facts and the prosecution because it was a week delay, i thought they wanted to make sure that the jury remembered all of the facts in this case that proves donald trump's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. >> as we talk about powerful witnesses, you have to go back a few weeks but let's not forget david pecker who laid out chapter and verse how this operation of catch and kill he said worked for him. danny, we talked to you just

before these closing arguments began, about 24 hours ago, now we are on the other side of them, how did you think yesterday went? >> look, there was a lot of criticism about the closing arguments going too long, particularly the prosecution, but it's so easy for lawyers like me so say, do you know what, i'm not in the courtroom but it went too long. that's because every lawyer is full of opinions about cases that are not the lawyer's own case. when it's your case and it's your reputation on the line, and this is going to be the most important case of this prosecutor's career, you better believe that you're going to err on the side of inclusion rather than exclusion, because you don't want to be up late at night if it doesn't go your way wondering should i have included this extra thing that i left out just for brevity to keep things short, to maybe entertain the jury a little better. because here is the thing, the prosecutor's role is really not to entertain the jury. in a sense their role is to be boring. they have the burden. they have to pile all of this evidence on and organize all of

the evidence. could it have been a little shorter? yeah, maybe. but this is a white-collar document-heavy case. you can't just shove all these documents and evidence into the record without organizing it for the jury. the defense has the luxury of not having the burden. they have the luxury of being able to take potshots and really just pull at parts of the case, like jenga blocks hoping that it will topple the case over. the prosecution always has the burden. the defense has an easier ride because they do a little more improv. they can attack the case at critical points. the prosecution, four and a half, five hours, was it necessary? maybe. it was necessary for this prosecutor for this case. >> barbara mcquaid, now the weeks and actually months of preparation and the lawyering is all in the books, it will be turned over to the jury here a short time from now. do you believe the prosecution made its case? not going to ask you to predict, we don't know anything about the jury and how it's going to behave, but do you believe from where you're sitting the prosecution made its case?

>> sure. of course, as you say, jurors see cases their own way because they bring their own life experiences and world views to the jury room, but from my perspective the prosecution made its case by bringing in evidence. as we heard before i thought they did something very skillful yesterday which was responding to this accusation that they pinned the whole case on michael cohen when, in fact, that's not what they did and the jury, i think, can see through that for themselves because michael cohen was the very last witness. the case was built on all of these documents and all of this testimony and michael cohen was the narrator who helped provide context for that. i think the other thing, willie, that helps the prosecution to make its case is what we're going to hear today which is jury instructions. jury instructions are something only a lawyer could love, but they're incredibly important because it's a place where there are often reversals and legal errors, but here the lawyers and judge has worked hard to put together instructions on the law and the law is actually quite favorable to the prosecution.

they need not prove that some secondary crime was committed, just that donald trump intended to commit or conceal some secondary crime. and the law considers these manners and means and not elements of the offense, and so the jury need not be unanimous in which crime they believe was intended to be concealed. and there's a whole variety from which they may choose. if they believe that the trump campaign accepted an excessive campaign contribution from michael cohen, exceeding the $2,700 limit of $130,000, that's enough. if they find that a corporate reimbursement from the trump organization was intended to be concealed, that would be enough. if they find that the acceptance of a straw donor from michael cohen, that would be enough. the failure to disclose the cohen contribution, that would be enough. and so because the law is stacked so heavily in favor of the prosecution, it seems that it's lined up in a way that the jury can easily find guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, unless there's some holdout

juror here. >> katherine, 34 felony counts in front of this jury right now. just for the laymen watching at home and paying close attention, what will this hour of jury instruction look like? what is the journal's job here? >> there are 34 counts but they are all the same count, falsifying business records in the first degree. it's not like he's reading 34 different crimes. so when he said an hour, judge merchan means an hour. a lot of that is the definition of reasonable doubt, the definition of intent, the definition of acting in concert. it's not just going to be the falsifying business records. the definition of business. the definition of enterprise. it's going to be those -- i will call them little things, but they're very important things that also are going to fill up that hour of jury instructiones. >> and then it's a moment to stop and think about the fact that a former president of the united states now his fate, his criminal fate, will be in the hands of a jury for the first time ever in this country in about, i don't know, an hour, 90 minutes from now. former assistant district attorney in manhattan, catherine christian, thanks so much.

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. welcome back. at 52 past, judge aileen cannon has denied a request from prosecutors in special counsel jack smith's office to limit donald trump's language in his classiied documents case after the former president made false statements claiming the biden administration authorized the fbi to use deadly force and assassinate him during the search of mar-a-lago in 2022. trump made the false claims last week on social media and later in fund-raising emails, which prosecutors argued could endanger law enforcement officers involved in the case. the government says trump is mischaracterizing language in a standard document used to execute fbi searches, language that nbc news learned was also included in documents connected

to the fbi's search for classified documents at president biden's home. in her denial, judge cannon focused on procedure rather than the merit of the request citing a, quote, lack of meaningful conferral saying prosecutors did not adequately discuss the issue with the defense before filing the motion. judge cannon also scolded special counsel jack smith's team in her ruling stating their efforts to confer with the defense on the friday night before the memorial holiday weekend was quote, wholly lacking in substance and professional courtesy. barbara mcquade, your thoughts. >> you know, this is like the fire department being scolded for failing to say mother may i before saving the baby from the burning building. you know, there is a rule about conferring with opposing counsel before you file a motion so that

if you can resolve it without the involvement of the judge, that saves everybody resources and time and it makes a lot of sense, but the prosecution asked on friday and the defense said, you know, it's a holiday weekend, we're kind of busy. we'll talk to you about it on monday, and that was enough to get the judge to say we're going to deny the motion. the defense can just slow walk it because it's a holiday weekend when it's literally a matter of life and death and protecting the lives of fbi agents. and so although the judge, i suppose, is technically enforcing a rule that's on the books, the idea that the prosecution has to wait until the defense is good and ready before filing this motion strikes me as absurd. >> yeah. all right, we're going to table that and go back to the courthouse in new york city where the criminal hush money trial, i guess the judge's directions for the jury are about to begin. donald trump has walked into the courthouse. what's the very latest, vaughn? >> reporter: yeah, mika, donald trump is now here in lower manhattan after making that

three and a half hour motorcade drive from midtown's trump tower for him a few minutes from now, he is going to be hearing along with those 12 jurors, the jury instructions. we expect that process to take about an hour. at that point the jury will then go back and begin their deliberations where they will be talking about the specifics of this case amongst each other for the first time. they have 34 felony counts that they will work through. at that point in time, donald trump will hold in a different side room inside of this courthouse where he will remain until the jury comes with its verdict. the court will be in session until 4:30 p.m. eastern today, so there is a chance that this verdict could come as soon as this afternoon. for his part, on his motorcade right here, donald trump posted on his social media account the following, quote, the d.a.'s office was allowed to go on with five hours of bull those five

hours were their closing arguments. his own defense team had three hours to deliver theirs and for donald trump's part he made the active decision not to testify in his own defense. the jury could make their verdict as soon as today. >> vaughn, thank you. daniel, we'll give you the last word this morning at the end of our coverage. the beginning jury deliberation and what could be days potentially of their deliberation. >> now we begin the astrology portion of this trial where we all sit around and guess at what 12 strangers are thinking in a locked room, with the only hints coming from the little flags that they send out in the form of jury notes, which we will wonder about the meaning of each of those. all of us truly knowing nothing until the final verdict comes in. >> we sit and we wait and the fate of a former president of the united states about to be in the hands of the jury. danny, thank you. ana cabrera and josé diaz-balart

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