mistrial. there's virtually no chance of an acquittal. i feel confident about that. >> i had a look of horror when he said next week. this is not going into next week. people want to ding joshua for spending as much time as he did. he meticulously went through all of it. you know all the details. it may hasten them getting to the details because they have the evidence from the prosecution in their mind from being in that entire closing argument. >> thank each and every one of you, not just for today but for your guidance and expertise and insights throughout this trial. thank you so much. thank you for the privilege of your time. andrea mitchell picks up our coverage next. right now on "andrea mitchell reports," after more than six weeks, 22 witnesses,

arguments, the trial of the people of the state of new york versus donald j. trump is in the hands of seven men and five women, 12 jurors who will decide the first criminal case of a former president of the united states who weighed in just moments ago. >> mother teresa could not beat these charges. these charges are rigged. the whole thing is rigged. i mean that, mother teresa could not beat those charges. we will see. we will see how we do. today, white house saying a deadly israeli attack that killed at least 21 people in a tent encampment inside rafah does not cross the president's red line against a major ground offensive. questions though are being raised about whether israeli forces used american munitions in the strike. on the campaign trail, president biden and vice president kamala harris heading to philadelphia for a rally to try to shore up lagging support among critical -- a critical

democratic constituency, black voters. ♪♪ good day, everyone. i'm andrea mitchell in new york. in an unprecedented trial that has galvanized the nation, 12 jurors are now deliberating on the guilt or innocence of a former president of the united states. donald trump, the presumptive republican presidential nominee, is awaiting his fate inside a manhattan courthouse steps away from where the jury is deliberating on the 34 felony counts, with which trump is charged. the jurors are behind closed doors. this is the first time that they are permitted to discuss the case amongst each other. they will be pouring over more than 200 pieces of evidence, 80 hours of testimony from 22 witnesses. yesterday's marathon closing arguments that took them well into the evening. they are going over that

evidence and all of that testimony. the marathon closing arguments took them into 8:00 p.m. judge merchan laying out instructions to the jury. reminding them the burden of proof is on the prosecution and that intent to commit fraud suffices. judge merchan said that we do know whether -- if it's a verdict or simply a question -- if a question comes in, we won't know if it's a verdict until the foreperson reads it in the court. vaughn hillyard is back outside the courthouse. former fbi again counsel andrew weissmann, jeremy saland, former u.s. attorney barbara mcquade and former federal judge john jones, president of dickinson college. vaughn, walk us through the legal guidelines judge merchan

gave the jury. what resources the jurors have. set the stage. >> reporter: judge merchan left these 12 jurors with meaty instructions about what they are tasked to determine. that starts with the felony counts that he is facing. that is whether donald trump caused the falsification of business records with the intent to defraud. for the purposes of breaking new york state election law by influencing the outcome of the 2016 election through unlawful means. these jurors were given several potential unlawful acts that they could determine that justified unlawful means, including tax violations, including breaking federal election law, including breaking other financial records violations. so for these jurors here, if they have questions about the law that they are being asked to

determine donald trump's guiltiness or innocence over, they are able to go back to judge merchan to have him rearticulate the law that they are being asked to determine donald trump's fate over. they also at this time have two laptops that contain all of the evidence presented to them throughout the course of the last five weeks. these were five weeks' worth of testimony and exhibits and documents that were presented to these jurors. and after over eight hours of closing arguments they have officially entered into the deliberation room to determine whether donald trump is guilty of those 34 felony counts. for donald trump, upon leaving the courtroom, he has to stay in the courthouse, he said this trial is rigged. >> andrew, laura is in the courtroom. she's describing the judge's affect, he was speaking slowly. as you heard inside and i heard

inside, he speaks very calmly and slowly and deliberately, even when he was chiding the defense or prosecution in various instances. >> right. i really wish for that reason that at least there was an audio. >> the supreme court audio has been so helpful to us. >> exactly. you can actually simultaneously listen to arguments now. one of the more striking things is hearing judge merchan's voice. at a time when there's so much distrust in our legal system being fomented by donald trump and others, it would be so helpful to hear that. that was the first thing that struck me. laura's reporting in terms of what was going on this morning, which was the reading for about an hour of the jury instructions and the jurors being rapt to attention makes total sense. this is when they find, what is the law, what do they have to find or not find? they are given all these instructions. the reporting is that they were

paying very, very close attention to that. as you would expect. >> describe the rapport between the judge and the jurors in this case, in many cases. >> almost all jurors, unless you have a really erratic judge, develop a real bond with the judge. the judge, he or she is looking out for the jurors. paying careful attention to their time, making things move along. as you noted with respect to judge merchan, i am now -- i have a man crush on him. he is such a great judge that it's hard to see the jurors wouldn't have the same impression. you just keep on thinking, if you looked in a dictionary for judicial temperament, that's what you would get. remember, he has had to put up with the defendant who committed ten acts of contcontempt, who threatened not just him but his family. in spite of that, you would not know for a second that that is

in any way weighing on him, because it has an impeccably fair trial. >> just a fascinating context here, especially given all of the ruckus on social media and outsidde the courtroom. judge jones, what's the most critical part you saw today? did any side benefit at all from the way the judge described the law here? >> first of all, andrew is precisely correct. i want to comment on that. jurors do cleave to the trial judge, particularly this trial judge who is so even tempered and did an exemplary job with a tough case. andrew couldn't be more correct. as far as the instructions are concerned, i think the instructions on the law itself, broad as they were, giving the jury some room to find these

underlying so-called predicate crimes, those are very, very important in the jury's deliberations. unfortunately, in new york, you can't take the instructions to the jury room with you. we did that in the federal system, as your panelists know. that was always helpful to the jury. you have what you have. i do think there's going to be some questions. no juror, lawyer or otherwise, can memorize pages and pages of intricate law. unfortunately, that may slow deliberations. otherwise, i think it's the substantive law, the law of the case as we call it, that is going to be most important in the deliberations. >> there was a slight delay in them starting to deliberate. two of the jurors needed instructions on how to use the laptop, which had the evidence loaded. jeremy, let's talk about that. this brings it home to all of us

who have dealt with technology as things have evolved. two jurors who were not that familiar with the laptop. >> funny is not the right word, but i had a trial in brooklyn supreme court where the jury wanted to access things with the computer. what they have to do, meaning the court system in the district attorney's office as well is to make sure and the defense is that that laptop is clean. it's not internet accessible. there's nothing on there other than whatever tool, whatever they need to look at is on that laptop. believe it or not, it took us three or four hours for the court system in the state of new york or the city of new york to get a laptop, clean it up and make sure it was accessible and usable. while there was a delay, it's a really effective tool for a jury to use to synthesize what they need to and then move that ball forward to either an acquittal or conviction. >> another bit of housekeeping. there are six alternates. notable to me that they were not dismissed as the deliberations started. they can't participate in deliberations. are they being kept in case

someone gets sick and they could be brought up to speed? is there -- >> again, i will use the term funny. that's what happened in my most recent trial. i lost one and one was substituted. they are critical but not involved in the initial deliberation. they are separate and apart. they also have to be involved in that entirety of the deliberation. they don't just come on at the end and say we have 11 and you are the 12th, what do you want to do? they have to be immersed to ensure the accused has fair due process and that case is proven beyond a reasonable doubt. >> barb, we just got the transcript, as we do on a delayed basis. 55 pages of the judge's instructions that lasted a little more than an hour. a partial verdict is a possibility. let's talk about the first seven counts. they are tied to the two checks that were not signed by donald trump. even if the jury finds him not guilty on those first counts, it

could change -- it could all change on count eight. could you break it down for us? >> absolutely. each of these 34 counts has to be looked at individually. it seems quite possible that the jury could find guilt on some counts and not guilt proven on other counts. in some ways, if you are an appellate lawyer, this is a godsend, a gift. it demonstrates the jury did not look at it in an all or nothing fashion but carefully parsed each count in the indictment. for example, it could be that the jury finds as you said the signed checks show guilty and donald trump's direct participation. unsigned, maybe there's a reasonable doubt. same with invoices and ledger entries where it was said he didn't create them himself but caused them to be created.

there's certainly evidence on the other documents that he caused them to be executed. you are right, the jury will have to look at each of the individual. from the prosecution's perspective, guilt on any count is success. that brings with it a felony conviction. there's 34 ways to guilty here, guilt on one count is a conviction for the former president. >> judge jones, how much influence will the judge have, especially if the jury comes back with questions at various times? >> i don't think influence would be exactly the correct word. i think it's up to the judge to take the questions, for example, coalesce with the lawyers and find the right way to answer the questions and not to show that he is leaning one way or the other with respect to the answers. it's an art form to do it. there are some questions, as

your panelists know, that judges, after coalescing with the attorneys, have to say to the jury, i'm sorry, but i can't answer that for you. it's not an appropriate question. it's out of bounds. i'm going to instruct you to go back to the jury room and continue to deliberate. how he manages the jury is going to really help the jury in its deliberations, generally. i don't think he will influence the jury. he doesn't want to influence the jury. they are the finders of fact, per se. i expect given his qualifications, his vast experience as a trial judge, he knows exactly what he is doing, he is in the moment and he will handle inquiries from the jury very, very well. >> judge jones, thank you so much. we appreciate it. vaughn hillyard, andrew, jeremy and barbara, you will be checking back a little later in the hour. thanks to all of you for starting us off.

israeli forces entering central rafah for the first time after civilians were killed in another stricondemnation. you are watching msnbc. ♪ i'm gonna hold you forever... ♪ ♪ i'll be there... ♪ ♪ you don't... ♪ ♪ you don't have to worry... ♪ slowing my cancer from growing and living longer are two things i want from my metastatic breast cancer treatment. and with kisqali, i can have both. kisqali is a pill that when taken with an aromatase inhibitor helps delay cancer from growing and has been proven to help people live significantly longer across three separate clinical trials. so, i have the confidence to live my life. kisqali can cause lung problems or an abnormal heartbeat, which can lead to death.

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advisor said today, he expects military operations in gaza to continue until the end of the year. in an election year, that's a bad timetable for president biden caught between voters who think he has been too supportive of israel in the war and those who disagree and disagree strongly. nbc news learned israel submit submitted a new cease-fire plan. it offers a sustainable calm, not a complete end to the war as hamas had been demanding. yesterday, a strike on a tent encampment near rafah reportedly killed at least 21 people, many of them women and children according to gaza emergency services. the white house is facing questions about whether israel has crossed an unofficial red line after the air strike over the weekend that killed dozens of people in a firestorm at a camp in rafah. >> how many more charred corpses

does he have to see? >> we don't want to see a single more innocent life taken. no civilian casualties is the right number of civilian casualties. >> joining me now from tel aviv, raf sanchez. raf, more tragedy in gaza. israel being criticized. the u.s. being criticized. we don't know whether american munitions were used. the fog of war, we don't know what happened yet. >> reporter: here is what we know about that deadly strike on sunday. it happened late sunday night into early monday morning local time. it was at a camp west of rafah. these were displaced people who many of them had fled seven, eight times trying to get away from the fighting. the idf says they were targeting

two senior hamas commanders who were meeting in a structure inside of that camp. they say that they used fairly small bombs, bombs with a warhead that weighs 37 pounds. they were deliberately trying to use smaller weapons to minimize civilian casualties. when those bombs exploded, they triggered some secondary explosion. that's what caused that absolute raging inferno that swept through that camp where palestinian families were sleeping in tents made of wood, made of plastic. at least 45 people killed. many of them women and children. the question at this point is what caused that secondary explosion. the israeli military is suggesting it's possible there were hamas weapons in a neighboring structure. that's what exploded. that's what caused the fire. they haven't presented any evidence of that. an israeli official told me it's possible it was a gas tank that people were cooking inside of the tents and one of them went up.

just outcome harrowing, tragic, loss of life on an enormous scale. it's reverberating around the world. you saw john kirby, the spokesman for the national security council, facing difficult questions from our colleagues at the white house. struggling to explain, what is president biden's red line at this point given you have israeli forces in the center of rafah and you have loss of life on this scale? >> they are careful not to use the phrase red line, which became toxic during the obama white house, in syria, when the president laid down a red line on nerve gas and then did not enforce it, according to many people in the arab world. raf, let's talk about the new cease-fire proposal from israel as well as -- the security council is meeting right now. the u.s. is very strongly

criticizing some of israel's policies, cutting off arab, israeli and palestinian access to banks controlled by israel, access for aid and the like. in any case, we expect pushback against any formal resolution against israel as has been -- it has isolated the u.s. with israel diplomatically. what do we know about the cease-fire proposal. >> reporter: since the last brief cease-fire collapsed in late november, one of the big sticking points is hamas has been saying, whatever cease-fire proposal comes needs to lead to an end to the war. israel is saying, that's not acceptable. israel will fight until it destroys hamas after the 7th of october. what the mediator, the prime minister of qatar, the egyptians have been looking for is some way to bridge what seems like

kind of a zero sum gap between the two sides. this latest proposal put forward by israel offers what they are calling a sustainable calm. they are not saying they will end the war. they are saying a sustainable calm. we don't know exactly what that would look like in practice. one possibility is that israel moves from what it cams the high intensity phase of the war, air strikes, lots of armored units inside gaza, and moves to something more surgical, something that looks more like the occupied west bank so israel could say the war continues but perhaps the level of violence wouldn't be as severe as it is in gaza right now. >> raf, thank you very much. appreciate it. crunch time. how 12 jurors who have spent seven weeks in this historic trial in new york city will work together now to decide on those 34 felony charges. millions of people around the world really, but certainly millions in america are awaiting

the verdict. 45 minutes into deliberations. they got a slow start because of some laptop orientation. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. hell reports." this is msnbc. (vo) explore the world the viking way from the quiet comfort of elegant small ships with no children and no casinos. we actually have reinvented ocean voyages, designing all-inclusive experiences for the thinking person. viking - voted world's best by both travel + leisure and condé nast traveler. learn more at viking.com. - ugh. - cabin crew cross check. that yellow's not gonna fly. - buckle up! - whoa! ♪ reality checkup ♪ there's toothpaste white,

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election interference trial. back with us from outside the courthouse, vaughn hillyard. also with us, former fbi general counsel andrew weissmann, former assistant manhattan d.a. jeremy saland and former u.s. attorney barbara mcquade. vaughn, we mentioned the fact two jurors had to be brought up to speed on the laptop where the evidence is stored. that's how they are looking at the evidence. they can look at all the exhibits in that fashion. a lot to look at as they get oriented in there. talk to me about that. that's such a human situation. two people had to be taught how to use the technology. >> right. it's the two engineers of the 12 that are the -- were tasked with being the operators. it's not connected to the internet. it should be straightforward. for those who have dealt with the court system before, it's not always the most up to date

with its technology. we will see what kind of laptop they are working with. for the jurors, the other part of this is the fact that this is their first time being able to discuss amongst themselves what they have heard. they have gone on lunch breaks. they maybe talk about the cheeseburgers. now is their opportunity. i think it's undoubtedly that folks have different recollections of events. they have the entirety of the exhibits they are able to refer back to. they are able to go back to the testimony of the witnesses. if they have further questions about any of the testimony or about the laws they are being asked to determine donald trump's guilty or innocence on, they are able to send a note out back to judge merchan where they will then return to the courtroom in order to be able to ask it. for the jurors, this is a very human experience. all 12 lasted the entirety of the trial. at the end of the trial, if --

this could be here tonight, they will go back to their lives across new york city, from the upper east side down to the east village to chelsea. life will go back to normal, as long as they are able to come up with a verdict. >> you can imagine the pressure, the feeling of personal responsibility. andrew, you have been a prosecutor in so many trials. what stood out today in today's judge's instructions? >> i think one of the things that stood out to me is how normal they were. there was a lot of attention. it's great to see there was a lot of attention on the jury instructions. i think they are basically your standard new york jury instructions. this is a charge that's frequently brought, not in this context all the time, but is frequently brought by the manhattan district attorney's office. i kept thinking, when we talk about the jury process, the judge overseeing it, the jury instructions, the evidence, this country has gone through what as you know many other countries

have gone through, which is holding political leaders to account. it shows that we can do it. we have joined i think an international group of countries that understand that this is a process that's necessary to a democracy. going back to judge merchan, huge kudos to him and the defense lawyers and prosecutors for handling this, i think by all accounts, in an incredibly fairway. even though everyone can't be in the courtroom because of our reporting and the transcripts, they get to see a trial and there's there's been a trial in a fairway, regardless of what one side or the other might say. >> how possible is it for the jurors to ignore the hubbub? the former president saying things and gag orders being violated. all the threats on social media.

they have been told not to read or watch that, not to discuss it with family and friends. but then you have the protesters outside. can they get in and out of the courthouse without seeing that and without -- a long holiday weekend break, not talking to family and friends? >> i think it's impossible to ignore all of it. as you said, it's visible and audible as they enter the courthouse. i have not had experience with anything that's this high profile, a former president of the united states. nobody has. i have seen high profile cases in the local area where there has been pressure and interest and lots of press attention to the case. it does seem to me that jurors take their jobs very seriously. they are admonished by the court every day not to read the media, not to talk even to each other until the time comes for deliberation. certainly not to talk to friends or family members about the case. i think most jurors take that

very seriously. they don't want to get in trouble. they know they have been selected it perform a very important service for the public. i think most of them do adhere to their oath to do that. i think for the first time, they are now hashing this out in the courtroom. i have seen lengthy jury trials like this in high profile cases where during the trial itself, they appear to be amiable, getting along. now suddenly they are taking about serious matters. their demeanor changes where they become very serious, because they are now grappling with the issues coming before the court. i think the one thing we are going to see, i think they will be back for more instructions from the court. that's because based on the law, they can't have a copy with them. we might get glimpses of their demeanor as they come back to get repeats of some of the instructions. it will be interesting to watch their body language and the way they are interacting with each other as to how they are getting

along. >> andrew, the jury does have the option -- they don't have an option of just deciding on a misdemeanor here. this is a felony case. how does that complicate or make life easier? they don't have an exit ramp here. >> great question. normally in a case like this where there are only felonies, one side or the other could ask the court to give the jury the option of just doing a misdemeanor, which is a simpler charge. there's an element that doesn't need to be proved. the state cannot do that in this case. why? there's a certain amount of time by which you have to bring charges. the misdemeanor charges had to be brought within two years, give or take. >> the statute has run? >> the statute has run. the defense does have the option of asking for -- to waive their right to have those charges brought on time. there's reasons they might not

want to do that. they made the decision they don't want to ask for that. it's an easier charge. they want the all or nothing of the felony. the option to the jury of can they just decide this as a misdemeanor is off the table. >> jeremy, it's lunchtime. they are used to getting a break in the 1:00 hour. they worked until 8:00 last night. they might be tired. are they bringing food in? what's happening in the jury room? >> it's the -- they will bring you lunch. they will tell you where you are ordering from. you will have an option. it's a good distraction in the moment. it's not an easy task. to your point before, the weight of this is significant. the weight of anybody's freedom and livelihood and clean record, if they don't have a criminal conviction, is paramount to who they are. in any case, whether it's someone who is a teacher or someone who lives on the street

or an accountant, it's significant. when it's the president or former president of the united states, the potential ripple affect is really astronomical and something none of us can judge sitting here other than to appreciate what could happen. i have no doubt that's weighing on them. also, i'm confident that these people will parse through that and get to what they think is a just resolution. >> it's just all so fascinating. we are not going to speculate on anything, because we don't know what is in their minds or hearts or politics or anything else. i guess, that's the special quality of the jury system. it's supposed to be so pristine. >> andrew was correct, this has been done properly, ethically, despite what bombastic terms and words have been used outside the courtroom. this has been textbook by judge merchan. >> thank you so much. thanks for everything. i think we will rely on you heavily. vaughn, of course, as well as barbara. thanks to you.

coming up next, the other campaign. the presidential campaign. president biden trying to shore up critical support in philadelphia today with the vice president as both candidates now in this presidential election are wondering how are volters -- voters going to react to the verdict in the trial? you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." politics next. this is msnbc. thanks to you... we're getting bottles back... and we've developed a way to make new ones from 100% recycled plastic. new bottles - made using no new plastic. you'll be seeing more of these bottles in more places. and when we get more of them back... ...we can use less new plastic. see how our bottles are made to be remade. (man) mm, hey, honey. ...we can use less new plastic. looks like my to-do list grew.

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as donald trump now sits in a manhattan courthouse, jurors are crossing the first hour mark of deliberations on the counts against him. president biden is on his way to philadelphia for a rally with vice president harris. it's part of a renewed effort to shore up support among black voters who were critical to president biden's victory four years ago. this year is no different. a poll last month showing a 15-point drop in interest for

black voters. joining us, mike memoli. also with us, columnist kimberly atkins stohr and jeremy peters. talk about the black vote, in pennsylvania, the black vote in philadelphia and other places of the state were actually down from four years previously for joe biden. he picked up more support in other parts of the state that donald trump had enjoyed in 2016 and did not in 2020. they really have to -- all things being equal, knowing that donald trump has a lot of support in western pa and other parts of the state, they have to do something to turn out that block vote in philadelphia where they have a big city machine -- democratic machine. >> reporter: yeah, that's right. they brought out the drumline just there time for our conversation. i hope you can hear me. this is part of the biden campaign trying to put on a show

of force as they are courting a critical constituency in a critical battleground state. you mentioned what we saw in the polls four years ago, president biden won 87% of the black vote significantly, a significant percentage here in philadelphia as well. the most recent nbc poll shows that only 71% of black voters support the president in a head-to-head test against donald trump. it's not just the level of support, it's the level of enthusiasm that the biden team is concerned about. that's why you are seeing a rarity, the president and the vice president campaigning together along with maryland governor wes moore, a rising start in the party. the third black man elected governor in u.s. history. he is expected to be a surrogate for the fall. part of a strategy different than what democrats have done in the past. they have to not just turn out black voters in the fall, they have to persuade them to support the president from start to finish.

what we are seeing is not just about that critical election effort, but it's part of what we would call maybe the wednesday strategy on the part of the biden team during this trump trial. they have taken advantage of those gaps in the proceedings when they know they will get more media attention. we saw that with the announcement of the debates, that big event in wisconsin focused on manufacturing and here today in philadelphia as well. >> kimberly, the polling showing black voters are frustrated about the cost of living, 50 -- even though frustration is better, the lack of criminal justice reform and policing, nothing accomplished since the george floyd horror and killing and all those protests. how does the president tackle that as well as the general apathy about the election? >> i think he has to do exactly what he is doing, which is talking to them directly about what is at stake. i continue to believe we are too

far out ahead for polls to be a decisive measure of anything just yet. i do understand that in 2020, those poll numbers were at a time that it was a primary race on the democratic side. it wasn't until south carolina and afterwards when black voters were clear about the threat that donald trump presented not only to their lives but to the economy and to the nation's very democracy, and they came out in droves and decisively helped joe biden win in 2020. i don't believe that suddenly all of those same voters got amnesia over the last four years and no longer understand the threat that trump presents. certainly, not now that we have seen, as you pointed out, a lot of coverage of this trial in new york, which really brings it to bear. that doesn't mean the biden campaign can take black voters for granted either. they have to talk about the student loan forgiveness that

has helped a lot of people in what was a big ask among black voters in 2020. they have to talk about the rise in wages and other things, that it's hard to get across, get through the trump dominated headlines. >> jeremy, the biden campaign has really been frustrated by all the focus on the trial that they have done a lot of campaign events, small events. this one is one of the unusual ones, it's a larger event with the vice president and with wes moore, the popular governor from maryland. yesterday, they had a staged event across from the courthouse. not related to the trial, but choosing to be there, according to robert de niro, the star actor, producer, director. de niro saying he did that because the media were there. they also had two january 6

officers outside the trial yesterday, trying to break through the noise. did that work? did it get them any attention? >> i think one of the interesting things about campaigning with the police officers who were there at the capitol on january 6th is, it's a way to remind voters of the threat that trump poses to the stability and national order. the biden campaign would say to the foundations of american democracy. it's also interesting because law enforcement is traditionally the constituency of republicans. republicans, the party that likes to frame itself as the party of law and order. democrats have always had a problem with crime and making it appear as if they are taking crime seriously. biden is no different.

by appearing with law enforcement, what that does is that signals to voters that biden is looking at crime and taking it seriously. republicans have been pretty disingenuous about crime and exaggeraing how serious it is. people do feel like crime has gone up. that's a problem that i think democrats have taken too long to address. but biden seems to be confronting that head on now. >> it certainly has become a major issue now, especially whether crime is up or not in new york city. it's not up there. in other cities it's not up, it's perceived to be up. the republicans have taken great advantage of that, of amplifying it. thank you. the threat assessment. how the rhetoric from former president trump allowed by a federal judge in florida now is

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for pneumococcal pneumonia. . we're now a little more than an hour into jury deliberations in donald trump's new york hush money and election interference case. meanwhile, the judge presiding over his classified documents case in florida has denied special counsel jack smith's request to impose a gag order on the former president over his false accusations on social media that the fbi's search at mar-a-lago involved an attempt by the biden administration to assassinate him, completely false. a fund-raising email last week falsely claiming the doj was authorized to shoot him and president biden was locked and loaded and ready to take me out. district judge aileen cannon chiding prosecutors saying that they did not give defense lawyers adequate time to discuss the matter before it was filed friday night. joining me now is frank

figliuzzi, former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence and importantly, the author of the new book "long haul: hunting the highway serial killers," incredible new book from frank. your second book. the fbi way was the first one. >> "the fbi way" was three years ago. >> and a great success it was. so let's talk about the fbi way, not the book, but the practice. the fbi, when they do a search, they have some standard language that is often put in these searches. it was in the biden search, it was in the mar-a-lago search. it's to protect people, not to go after them, and it was not singling out donald trump, and he quite, you know, according to jack smith's filings, dangerously could inflame supporters to become violent against fbi people, against law enforcement if they thought that he was under threat. >> if this wasn't so gravely serious, it would actually be

humorous because the facts are the complete opposite of what's being put out in this expertise theory. the facts are and you're talking it to someone who served in the fbi, it's standard boilerplate language on a standard government template. if people would look in the bottom corner of that ops order, they'd see the government form number. there's mandatory language that cannot be removed and must be in there. we've learned, of course, that the same language was in the consensual search of president biden's locations. the alternative here that would ask people is are you implying that fbi agents should have been told to be unarmed that day and not defend themselves against any threat that may have popped up. murphy's law happens every day in the fbi on searches and arrests. the person unaffiliated with your operation shows up with a weapon, thinks you're there for them and opens fire. you have to be armed if you're working. >> so judge cannon has been criticized by many for being

pro-defense, anti-prosecution in this case, and whatever you want to infer from that, the record shows that from her decisions. can jack smith now refile after consulting the trump defense and try again to get this gag order, or is that -- >> if they'll agree. he tried the first time and they said it's a holiday weekend. get back to us, if they actually in a timely fashion agree to consult, they'll predictably drag their feet. i've been giving judge cannon the benefit of the doubt, but not now. this is a safety issue for law enforcement agents. there are people out there mentally unstable or not who we know are incited by president trump's language. if they believe that the fbi was truly trying to assassinate trump, who by the way was nowhere near mar-a-lago on that day and they knew that, then they might feel compelled to act out in an equal way violently. >> let's talk about "long haul"

this is a fascinating book. there are 850 deaths you report related to these long haul truckers, serial killers. why was it important to you, and how did you go about your research? that was so interesting. >> here's the data, which is scary enough, 850 murders alongside our nation's highway largely of sex trafficked women. the fbi makes no bones about the fact that they believe long haul serial killers, truck drivers, have been responsible for this, and it's still going on. 25 long haul truckers are currently serving in prison for multiple homicides. there are currently 450 suspects being looked at right now by the fbi in 200 active cases. >> this is just so terrifying. i mean, terrifying for everyone, for the innocent, all the thousands and thousands of long-haul drivers who do great work, men and women on the road. >> that's true. >> and the book is "long haul," buy it. it's a great read.

thank you so much, frank. >> thanks for having me. >> it's great to see you again. that does it for us on "andrea mitchell reports." follow us on social media @mitchellreports. you can rewatch the best parts of our show on youtube. "chris jansing reports" with the latest on the trial and all the other news starts right after a short break. e other news starts right after a short break. and i also have a non-profit. but no matter what business i'm in... my network and my tech need to keep up. thank you verizon business. (kevin) now our businesses get fast and reliable internet from the same network that powers our phones. (waitress) all with the security features we need. (aaron) because my businesses are my life. man, the fish tacos are blowing up! so whatever's next... we're cooking with fire. let's make it happen! (vo) switch to the partner businesses rely on. when it comes to your wellness routine, the details are the difference. dove men body wash, with plant based moisturizers in harmony with our bodies for healthier feeling skin.

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