at no additional cost. it's ultimate speed for ultimate business. don't miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today! today it is 421 days since donald trump was indicted on charges of falsifying business records to pay off porn star

stormy daniels in an attempt to hide their affair in the final days of the 2016 election. and they began a historic process. deliberations to determine whether to convict a former u.s. president of any of the 34 felony counts. trump was at the courthouse today where he has been every day in his trial and where he must remain every day the jury deliberates his fate. here is how one court reporter captured trump after the jury left the courtroom. todd blanche appeared to gently shake trump awake. nudging his shoulder as the six alternated filed out of the the courtroom and he was the only person still sitting down. judge juan merchan handed the case over to the seven men and five women jurors with this charge. quote. it is not my responsibility to judge the evidence here. it is yours. you are the judges of the facts and you are responsible for deciding whether the defendant

is guilty or not guilty. these 12 jurors are the quote judges of the facts. only they have the power to decide whether donald trump is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. the judges of the facts have spent 22 days in a manhattan courtroom listening to 22 total witnesses. more than 80 hours of witness testimony. and seven hours and 37 minutes of closing arguments. today, judge merchan read all of the jury instructions to help the jury decide trump's guilt or innocence as to each of the 34 counts. the jury spent four-and-a-half hours deliberating and we have some insight into their deliberation process through notes they sent to judge merchan. at 2:56 p.m., the jury made four requests to review some of the most damaging witness testimony by tabloid mogul david pecker and by star witness michael cohen including david phone call with trump

about karen mcdougal. his decision to pull out of the deal to transfer the former playboy play mate's life rights to michael cohen about the infamous trump tower meeting in august of 2015. about an hour later, the jurors then sent the judge a second note. court will reconvene at 9:30 a.m. tomorrow morning. the judges of the facts will then continue deliberating, deciding the fate of donald trump. , leading off our discussion tonight is andrew weissman. former fbi general council and former chief of the criminal division. he is the coauthor of the new york times best selling book the trump indictments. also with us is adam classfeld

who has been in the courtroom every day of the trial. he is a fellow with just security. gentlemen, it is a pleasure to have you here. andrew, i don't have you here onset. i am remiss to not have you here. let's talk about the fact that donald trump called into dan, whatever his last name is radio show. whatever the show is and said quote the whole thing is crazy and nobody knows what is happening. the jurors asked the judge to reread the instructions and i think that is interesting. we don't know if they want an entirety or a portion. what does it tell you? >> it tells me they are paying attention. that this jury could have if trump were actually right. that they were hopelessly

biased against him. the fixes. they don't need to listen to all of these instructions again. these instructions ran on for an hour. they include detailed information ability the interpretation of the law. in concepts like, they want to understand the fine legal points of the law. and this is very common in a case to hear the jurors to want to get in more detailed explanation of certain instructions. here, under new york state law, they need to ask permission to hear any of the instructions. they don't have it in written form. so it shows they are paying attention. it shows they are meticulous. and it shows that they want to get this right. we talked about this a lot. is there a disadvantage to the fact that these jurors don't actually have their hands on

the jury instructions or here is a school of thought i was thinking about. maybe it helps the prosecution that the jurors don't have the jury instructions because there is some complexity to the legal concepts that are here. >> you know, in the federal system it is left to each judge to decide whether they want to send a written copy back or not. i think there are upsides and downsides. there are some things where you don't want them to get it hung up on certain words and the facts. there are upsides and downsides. in new york, they are not allowed to send that back as i understand it.

that is why the judge rereads certain portions and that is very common. we are officially now in the tea leaf part of the case. which is where we will all be looking at what is going on. there is no question i agree with adam that this is a good note in terms of assessing the jury. we are still a long way away. but the big picture is the one you said. if you start with donald trump denigrating the process, you know, all three of us do not know what is going to happen. but all three of us who have been in the courtroom day in and day out, we know to our core that this is a fundamentally fair process with good lawyers on both sides. and an imminent judge presiding over it. so, you know, that i think is the real take home message. no matter what happens in the case, it has been handled superbly. >> so adam, there is something you just mentioned a couple of

minutes ago. it's the unlawful means definition. and i'm actually thinking if i'm the prosecution, i would want the jury to actually have this specific definition because if you look at it, it says that there is no requirement for the jury to unanimously find or agree upon the unlawful means by which donald trump was able to corruptly reach the felony that they have in this case. and that gives the jury the opportunity to consider three different ultimate ways by which this happened or a myriad of ways this happened. is there enough clarity to dough think going into the jury deliberations after the closings? do you think there is enough clarity for the jury? >> i think there is going to be clarity because this jury is seeking. they are asking for the

instructions. and, specifically, this instruction. unlawful means. if they are not clear about this, i would expect they will ask for more instructions. this is an instruction that took on a life of its own. after it became public today, a lot of commentators took it out of context making it sound like the judge was turning the concept of jury unanimity on its head. but that's not what this does. and it is really an interesting moment. last week, no person other than trump's own attorney had said that this was a usual instruction. i actually brought the transcript from last week. the judge should be required to make a specific finding. so it is very clear what happened at trial. the judge asked him, do you

agree that is not ordinarily required? and he replies certainly. and at that moment, he makes a concession. this is how it happens. under this election law conspiracy, you can, the jury has the discretion to decide which were the unlawful means. and in this case, there is a wide variety out there. the falsifying business records. this is one choose of your adventure for the jury. the jury can decide that all the shell companies that he created after calling donald trump and going into first republic bank, that those bank records, they can find that federal election law was violated. they could find the tax authorities were misleading.

and, if that is too many options for the jury, that's the nature of the case. that is the widespread nature of the concealment that went into the disguising of this hush money. >> that is a buffet of criminality. but one thing that has been a critical part we heard through the closings and that we have seeing woven throughout the jury instructions is this issue of witness credibility. something that stood out to me was that accomplice as a matter of law jury instruction taylor made for corroborating evidence. they were asking for david testimony and i'm stuck on that fact. not only the meeting, the trump tower meeting where they agreed to the catch and kill scheme with the national enquirer that

set the table for the buffet of criminality. but they also sought information about why. why the national enquirer would not sell the life rights of karen mcdougal. why they ripped up that agreement. a lot of this seems to me, andrew, that david pecker is the person who will corroborate. >> it is useful for everyone to go back and think about how we were reporting on this case when we heard david testimony. that everyone was sort of taken aback. this is so solid you have a witness independent of michael cohen saying he had as a principle with donald trump, as a principle, michael cohen was a staffer who is going to carry out the instructions of that

agreement. and, maybe even more surprising, is that donald trump's counsel didn't really cross-examine david pecker in terms of his credibility. so you are left with this jury note saying us tell us more about what david pecker specifically said. he was the first witness so this was many weeks ago. but it was very much a little bit like hope hicks' testimony which was also damaging which is also something that donald trump's counsel didn't really challenge. finally, just to your law point, new york has the rule which is that you do have to have corroboration of an accomplice. you cannot be convicted solely, the keyword is slowly on an accomplice's word. i will say de facto, that is really the federal system as well. though in the federal system, we don't have that. where the only witness is

michael cohen who is an accomplice. you always would have some very strong corroboration. but i completely agree with you the note, well, it is just tea leaf reading. and no question if you are a the prosecutor, you think this is a good note. it is going to the heart of the case. it is going to a clear piece of evidence that was not challenged. and, it also did ask for some testimony from michael cohen which suggests they didn't write off his testimony as the defense asked him to do. >> and maybe it becomes an apples to apples comparison. thanks for joining us tonight. and for joining me this afternoon for our msnbc live stream. we will have one when the verdict comes out. thank you so much for being here. and coming up, donald trump's favorite federal judge

aileen cannon, a trump appointee who is overseeing the classified documents and espionage case in florida just gave criminal defendant donald trump another procedural win in that case. how is special prosecutor jack smith likely to respond? that's next. smith likely to respond? that's next. vaccinated with pfizer's pneumococcal pneumonia vaccine. so am i. because i'm at risk for pneumococcal pneumonia. come on. i already got a pneumonia vaccine, but i'm asking about the added protection of prevnar 20®. if you're 19 or older with certain chronic conditions like asthma, diabetes, copd, or heart disease, or are 65 or older, you are at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia. prevnar 20® is approved in adults to help prevent infections from 20 strains of the bacteria that cause pneumococcal pneumonia. in just one dose. don't get prevnar 20® if you've had a severe allergic reaction to the vaccine or its ingredients. adults with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects were pain and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, fatigue, headache, and joint pain.

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this is a reminder that donald trump was scheduled to go to trial on federal charges we related to illegal retention of classified documents last monday. may 20th. that trial date has come and gone and it doesn't seem like trial will be rescheduled any time soon. now, the florida federal judge who donald trump appointed is once again ruling in his favor in the case. judge aileen cannon denied a motion by special counsel jack smith seeking to prohibit trump from making inflammatory statements about law enforcement. claiming that the search was an assassination plot. judge cannon rejected jack smith's motion on procedural grounds writing the court finds the special counsel's conferral

to be wholly lacking in substance and courtesy. any future non-emergency motion will not be filed absent meaningful timely and professional conferral. that is judge cannon taking the side of donald trump's lawyers who made that argument. in their response. as the washington post notes, smith wrote in a footnote to the motion that prosecutors contacted trump's lawyers but his lawyers do not believe there is any imminent danger and asked to meet and confer next monday. judge cannon said nothing about the risk of threats and danger of law enforcement officials. this is another example of judge cannon's slow walking decisions on a growing number of pretrial motions. in a new profile of judge cannon. she is described as an industrious and inexperienced insecure judge to reluctance to rule decisively has permitted one of the most important criminal cases to become bogged down in a log jam of unresolved

issues. she has largely accomplished this by granting a serious hearing to almost every issue. no matter how far-fetched mr. trump's lawyers have raised playing directly into the former president's strategy delaying the case from reaching trial. joining us now is bradley moss who represents people in the intelligence community. and andrew weissman is back with us. bradley, when i last spoke with you monday i think it was, we didn't have any movement from judge cannon at all. in response to jack smith's motion to modify donald trump's bond conditions. then we get this order which was remarkably insulting to jack smith. but that is par for the course. i have seen judge cannon. i tweeted bradley that this is a form over substance issue. she could have set a hearing after doing a very quick

briefing schedule on this. didn't jack smith confer with donald trump's lawyers and say we don't think it is an emergency in. >> comes back to the phrase we have been talking about since the beginning. so yes. there were alternate options judge cannon could have taken here. she could have asked jacksmelt's team to submit declarations about the nature of what they viewed as the threat from these statements from donald trump. that was a path she could have taken. she chose not to. she didn't do what donald trump wanted which was immediately order some kind of sanction hearing. but she did basically tell jack smith, go back, do at least something to show me you quote unquote conferred with donald trump's team and provide me with something more. put more meat on the bone before you bring this to me in a non-emergency form. is that with a no discretion?

sure. was it an unforced error by jack smith? a little bit. they could have done it a different way. would other judges have done what she did? probably not. >> we have to speak about a double standard. there is a procedure that has to be followed but in this instance, this motion to modify the bond conditions alleges something that is of serious security and safety for law enforcement officers who executed a duly authorized search warrant that was done in coordination with the united states secret service. so, in order to be able to curb what is happening with trump, is there a fear there will be a first amendment issue that will be raised by trump's defense? >> well, i can't believe i'm about to say this. but i disagree with brad.

bradley. i think this is something that is absolutely outrageous. i think this is a kind of thing that is going to be when she ultimately denies judge i think this will be taken up to the 11th circuit. this is something the government obviously cares deeply about. the attorney general of the united states talked about how this was a dangerous and false misrepresentation by the former president. endangering law enforcement is the kind of thing that is the reason that you go into government to try and prevent and make sure that you are upholding the people's safety. for her to have put this off when it was a matter of safety,

on a ground, it is not even a technical ground. there was conferral. for the defense to say i don't think that is an emergency. does the judge think it is? so i think this was one where the judge is dead wrong. she is making up the procedural issue. i think it is the kind of thing that will be used by jack smith rightly on appeal. and it shows this same kind of cavalier disregard for law enforcement that caused judge cannon to be reversed not once, but twice by the 11th circuit when this investigation was just beginning. she is really playing with fire here. and playing with people's lives. >> i will give you the chance

to respond. i'm going to out-number you i think right now. i agree with andrew. this is a foregone conclusion. we know she is going to say this motion cannot be well taken by jack smith. she will say it is a first amendment issue here. but this definitely is a serious risk to the lives of the law enforcement officers. remember, jack smith has been fighting the disclosure through the discovery process of the identities of many people that have participated in this. >> i hope to see when the department does refile this. when jack smith's team comes back with a new motion. i would like to see a lot more substance. not necessarily just debrief. there have been plenty of rulings and analysis on that and the other cases in manhattan and in dc they can

use as a foundation. but, put some meat on the bone and call judge cannon's bluff. she and the trump team have kind of been wishy washy on they that there is a threat to law enforcement. get agency declarations if need be. show her. here is the threat. here is every time he made these remarks and it got amplified. here is how the threat matrix was increased. here are the various threats the agencies received, et cetera, et cetera. call her bluff on that. that gives you a much better grounds for appeal if she were to deny it on the merits. >> andrew, there is a tipping point to your point that the 11th circuit has bench slapped her repeatedly. is this the one that is the tipping point to get her off the case or get it reassigned in some way? >> it may be, but this is where i would say as somebody who

used to be in law enforcement, it is more important this be dealt with properly. we are dealing with safety. if it leads to the secondary goal of the 11th circuit deciding it is the third strike and you are out, so be it. i would note that really it is important to remember that what she did here and her not really giving weight to the allegations of harm to law enforcement is exactly what the 11th circuit den graded her decisions about when they reversed her twice which was her cavalier disregard of the national security of this country. that is a core why she was reversed twice by a conservative panel of the 11th circuit. this is very much a piece.

we will have to wait and see what she does and what the 11th circuit does. i also by the way, on this i do agree with bradley. this does give the government a chance to sort of reset and file things that have more meat on the bones as bradley said. >> i will predict the refiling of the motion will happen. she will sit a substantiative hearing probably involving everyday which is absurd. and she will do it in about six months. maybe removing any opportunity to deal with her and as my colleague rachel says, watch this space. because i think that is exactly what is going to happen. andrew, thank you for joining us. bradley. good to see you as well. and still ahead tonight, why donald trump spent another day as criminal defendant trump awaiting a verdict in his new york election interference case. president biden spent another day on the road today. that's next. the road today. that's next.

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today while donald trump sat in criminal court manhattan while the jury deliberates his fate in the 2016 election interference case against him, president biden arrived in the battleground state of pennsylvania. it marks a rare joint appearance with both president biden and vice president kamala harris at a historically black

boarding school. >> because black americans voted, kamala and i are president and vice president of the united states. because of you. because you voted, donald trump is a defeated former president. with your vote, we will make donald trump a loser again. because you voted i was able to appoint justice ketanji brown jackson. a promise made and a promise kept and i appointed more black women in the federal circuit courts than every other president in american history combined. every single president combined. the next president will be able to appoint a couple of

justices. >> in philadelphia, black residents have expressed concerns about public safety and crime in the city. vice president harris spoke about what the biden administration has done to reduce gun violence. >> we promise to take on the issue of gun violence. knowing that today in america gun violence is the number one cause of the death of the children of america. not car accidents. not cancer. gun violence. we took on the issue knowing black americans are ten times as likely to be the victim of gun homicide. and i'll tell you, i have personally held too many hands of mothers and fathers as i attempted to comfort them after their child was killed by gun violence. so to address this crisis, under the president's

leadership, we passed the first major gun safety law in nearly 30 years. joining us now is reverend mark kelly tyler. he serves as pastor of a church in philadelphia. you got to attend the biden harris campaign rally. >> it was electric. you don't see this kind of energy this early. we haven't really hit june just yet. that is kind of september october energy. but it felt like people were excited about the opportunity to be there with the president and the vice president. and so many elected officials as well who have been out there

fighting the good fight. >> other members of the community are telling you about this upcoming election in november. and their concerns about what this election means to them. >> well listen. quite frankly, a lot of the people i speak to within my congregation and my community are afraid. certainly people have frustration about the cost of milk. the cost of the gallon of gas and everything else. but they are also afraid that you know, that this country will make a big mistake and go back to what we had from 2016 to 2020. while things may not be perfect, we certainly don't want a repeat of what we had before or worse. so i would say if you had to put your finger on the pulse of it, that really is the concern. that is not to say the last four years there are things we want to see improve and we want to see those things become bigger wins, but people

certainly, i believe those poll numbers about black people in pennsylvania and president biden's approval rating. that would mean i know at least three people in my circle who have changed their vote and i can't tell you one person. so i don't put a lot of stock in those numbers. >> reverend, you are very involved with an organization called power. philadelphia organized to witness empower and rebuild. part of the mission for power centers on criminal justice reform. ending mass incarceration and police accountability. and i know there is a concern in your community at large as well about making sure the streets are safe. that your children in the community are doing okay. talk about whether those concerns are being addressed by the biden harris administration and whether or not you think that will be looming large in the minds of voters in philadelphia when they go into the ballots in november. >> that is a great question.

i'm glad you raised it. what power is also about is fighting for a living wage. we are also about fixing the inequity in public school funding in the state of pennsylvania to make sure that public schools regardless of the zip code get what they need so everybody gets a quality seat we have a number of issues we are fighting for. if you want to make philadelphia safe. if you want to make cities like where i grew up in oakland, california safe, you have to actually put resources on the community. in fact, i find it laughable that the same republicans whether it is in the state of pennsylvania, harrisburg, or in washington dc, who claim to be about the safety of black people put roadblocks into raising the minimum wage. we ask for a $15 minimum wage which is what dr. king basically asked for if you

adjust for inflation. back in 1963. the same people who tell us they are for us will not help us get a higher wage which everyone knows will also bring down crime if you can actually put more food on the table and quit forcing people into a black market economy. >> i'm glad you led that perspective. thank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you very much. and also joining us now for this conversation, is the democratic speaker of the pennsylvania house of representatives joanna mcclinson. the first woman to serve as speaker. thank you so much for being here. you know malcolm kenata was on with alex wagner just before you and i was thrilled to tell him you were going to be on the show. so thank you so much for being here. talk about this biden harris rally that happened today. there was a lot of energy. and there was a lot of excitement. but you know, we want to make sure that the expectations are

managed. so, talk about what is going on with your constituents and what are the primary top of mind concerns going into november? >> so, thank you for having me on this evening. we were celebrating some students who had the most academic achievement. in west philly. and we gave out certificates. it was great. before i left. one of the senior members, senior citizens. i call them the wisest neighbors in the community. pulled me aside and said what is going on with the biden harris campaign and are they going to be on the ground in philadelphia? i let her know that every single conversation i have had with the biden harris team has been about them being on the ground in philadelphia. there is no demographic that any elected official should take for granted including the african american community. the same way we lowly state

representatives at the bottom of the ticket have to earn the votes of our neighbors, our president has to do the same. and he and our vice president kamala harris have such a great record. what we cannot allow or go back to any time soon here in america, the 45th president. >> another big issue will be reproductive rights not just in the states but obviously a federal issue. it will be a battle for your state going into november as well. are the voters paying attention to that race? are they concerned about those issue that's are federal as well? >> absolutely. reverend tyler asked why is the minimum wage in pennsylvania stuck at $7 in a quarter. we passed a bill with our one

seat democratic majority almost an entire year ago. still waiting in our republican controlled senate. people are thinking about every issue. they are thinking about voting rights. they are thinking about whether or not they can afford a house. they are also of course thinking about what has our president been able to deliver for us? we are talking about stability. diversity to the courts and so much more. >> pennsylvania house speaker joanna, it is an honor to have you here. thank you for being here. >> thank you. and, still ahead, the stakes, the strategies, and the reality of where we really are in this presidential election just 160 days from election day. simon joins us. that's next. mon joins us. that's next. balanced nutrition for strength and energy. yay - woo hoo! ensure, with 27 vitamins and minerals, nutrients for immune health. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. (♪♪) ♪♪ chevy trucks' advanced camera technology

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women's rights are freedoms, democracy is on the line. and, we have a choice. this is what i'm out there saying. we have a choice. we have my husband who is calm.

who don't follow traditional news and who don't regularly vote. trump's dependence on these voters could make the race more volatile soon. there is a chance that disengaged and traditionally democratic voters can revert to their usual partisan leanings. alternately, they might stay home. which could also help biden. joining us now for more is simon, longtime democratic strategist on sub stack. some income i was so excited to have this conversation with you and i was telling melissa, the executive producer, i normally don't wake polls at all.

my own show, but what i found to be fascinating about this piece is, and this is what really stuck with me, biden leads trump by at least four percentage points of people who voted in both 2020 and 2022, so you have a combination of factors, it is voters that are engaged, who actually going to exercise their right to vote, and also voters who are a high information voters, versus the trump voters that are low information or that's don't do it. so, dig a little bit deeper for reviewers and explain what is going on here. >> so, first of all you would rather be ahead among the people that are most likely to vote in this election. joe biden, this is one of the reasons why i have been arguing that things are a little bit better than they look. is that, joe, among the people who are most likely to vote for joe biden does much better and in some cases is actually winning the election. and i think the big question in front of us about these disengaged voters is, will they, once they decide to become a boater, as joe biden said or

the first lady said, and the choice that is in front of them, that is presented to them, and they become formed, will they stick with their slights trump lien? or will they become democrats and hope help joe biden win. it is my belief, and i think it is the belief of the campaign, that those voters are going to go through this process of becoming a boater, become more interested, when they have this choice thrown in front of them by big campaigns and states, and what we have seen in 2022 and 2023 and 2024 is that, when voters are given this choice electors of all kinds all across the country pick the democrats and they don't pick the republicans. and ice think that gets to the fundamental optimism that we have about the election right now. >> so, simon, i will tee up a question you that i do for many of the political analyst i speak with, which is, if you have firmly entrenched voters on both sides of the aisle, what is it going to take to make them converts?

so, do you just give them more information? because i kind of feel like we put it out there, but it is not been consumed, so is there an answer? >> is what happens with campaigns, what campaigns do is they put information into boater's hands that they don't already have. and what we saw in 2022, remember, we have this extraordinary thing happen in 2022. we were all told a red wave was going to come, high inflation, low biden approval, but we have the big campaigns that going to the battleground states that control the information environment, educated voters, we use that money to push the performance of what is possible, that same exact process that worked so well for us in 2022 is about to happen in many of these states in 2024. and so, we have enormous tools to overcome the great big noise machine and all of the muster of the day today and it is called a campaign, and this campaign will have unprecedented resources and volunteers will be working all across the country to bring our

story and present that choice that joe biden talked about to voters when we have done that when they lose, i still think that is the likely scenario in 2024. >> simon, i got less than an -- i probably have got 30 seconds, i want to bring up this number with traffic is interesting, biden has a 20 point advantage of latino voters, and with black voters, biden's lead is 80 points among those who participated, so it looks like it is almost regardless of communities it is actually engagement that makes the difference. >> right, because if you think about it, it means you are actually considering your choice. you are educated. and so, those voters that are not yet checked in, will they go through the same process of all of these other voters that are checked and will go through and become more democratic? i think that is the likely thing that is about to happen, and i think that is why there is this quiet conference of the democratic party right now. >> people need to become high information voters so they know

exactly what is going on. >> absolutely. >> thanks for being here, simon, i appreciate it. and we will be right back. . if you have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis or crohn's disease... put it in check with rinvoq... a once—daily pill. when symptoms tried to take control, i got rapid relief... and reduced fatigue with rinvoq. check. when flares kept trying to slow me down... i got lasting steroid—free remission... with rinvoq. check. and when my doctor saw damage,... rinvoq helped visibly reduce damage of the intestinal lining. check. for both uc and crohn's: rapid symptom relief... lasting steroid—free remission...

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that is tonight's last word, tonight, deliberations beginning donald trump's criminal trial. what