that is tonight's last word, tonight, deliberations beginning donald trump's criminal trial. what the jury asked for today,

and what it could mean. plus, white house advisor, donald trump could offer elon musk if you wins. and biden's move, january 6th, officer harry dunn is here to talk about his new role on the campaign. the 11th hour gets underway on this wednesday night. will good evening, once again, i am stephanie grewal. we are now once again 160 days away from the election and today, 12 new yorkers spent four and half hours deliberating over the 34 felony counts in donald trump's criminal trial. they have not reached a verdict yet and will resume tomorrow morning. they did have a request for the court, including a rereading of some potentially crucial testimony. here's my colleague, laura jarrett, with the details. >> reporter: tonight, jury deliberations wrapping up today in donald trump's hush money case. the first trial of an american president. seven men and five women

deliberating for roughly 4 1/2 hours. after sitting for more than an hour of complex instructions from the judge, who told manhattan jury to set aside any bias for or against mr. trump and to not ignore any evidence, simply because you want the trial to end. judge juan marchand walking the jurors through each of the 34 counts esther trump faces, for allegedly falsifying his business records to cover up michael cohen's payout of a porn star on the eve of a election. trump's misdemeanor race to a low-level felony here, because prosecutors argue the allegedly doctored records were meant to cover up another crime, in this case, a conspiracy to promote mr. trump's candidacy in 2016 throughput, unlawful means. prosecutors raised possible violations of multiple other laws that could qualify as those unlawful means. including mr. trump was never charged with. the judge today reaching a

guilty verdict they may not be unanimous about which unlawful for prosecutors. >> it is a disgrace. i mean, we will see. >> surgery asking for a read back of certain testimony from the very first witness, tabloid boss, david pecker. and jurors instructed today not to deliver the possible sentence that he could receive. he could face anywhere from four years in prison to just probation and the presumptive gop nominee could still be elected president, even if he is found guilty. >> after the grand jury-- excuse me, after the jury began deliberating, posted a flat out lie on social media he says he doesn't know what the charges are in the case and he should be entitled to specificity just like anyone else.

the one thing he got right there is, of course he is entitled to know what he is charged with the 26th amendment so so, but donald trump knows exactly what the charges are. he was sitting in the courtroom as the judge gave the jury instructions, which included a detailed reading of exactly what the charges against him are. the truth matters, but only if you hear it or choose to pay attention to it. with that, let's get smarter with our leadoff panel tonight, and it is an all-star cast. molly john fast is here, special correspondent from vanity fair, and an inept msn be contributor and former district attorney at the manhattan district attorney's office, she is now an msnbc legal analyst. jeremy, criminal defense attorney and former assistant district attorney at the manhattan da's office and former u.s. attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general, i told you, we had a

great cast. harry, you're in the courtroom, spillover room or the courtroom? >> the courtroom. >> with the uncomfortable badges i was there. >> you got to see that tree, it took an hour to read those jury instructions the first time. what were you thinking? when the jury came back and asked to hear some of them again. what you glean from that? >> well, first of all it is not all on usual, we are in this sort of very nailbiting period once the jury got out, requests come in and you think, is there a verdict? it will be happening over the next few days. it is very interesting that, when you raised this, staff, they asked, apparently will will find out tomorrow at 9:30 if they really want this, but for the entire 55 pages come takes over an hour to read, and he was not giving them the instructions, he would just have to read it again if they say we want the entire thing, why would they want all of the instructions, including some

really boring, generic what's up front? i'm not sure. so, that one actually puzzled me more. the other request i think is more meaningful and more. >> how much can we read into these questions right? people love to make assumptions, based on what outcome they are looking to go. in this trial, but take your feelings aside, when you heard about the jury came back with, what did you think? >> i thought it was bad, for the most part, for donald trump. from the jury, it started from the beginning, this election conspiracy to promote the election, you know, in 2015 i thought that was not a good thing, why? because you have david cnbc . david pecker is even more important than michael cohen, he is so but valuable. he is center to this case, because if you don't believe michael cohen, okay, but david

pecker can poke those holes or fill those holes. so if i am the defense i am concerned and maybe , maybe speculation, out of the gate there are some people that are a little unsure and there are people who say, no, listen, there is corroboration. you know that you can't just convict on michael cohen, but here's the corroboration, it is david pecker. >> every time i hear his name i can't even believe that the center of this it is too unbelievable, a guy named pecker, catherine-- i can't-- i am so in the true. thank you. when this material is reread, as harry said it likely would be, what happens? >> so, the courtroom would, and read it, not the judge, they will do the read back of the transcript. and after it is done, the judge will look at the jury and that is it. and if you have any questions he will ask the jury and put it in a note. so it is never a jury raising a hand and having a conversation with the judge, and they go back and, both sides, you look at the jury to see if anyone is

sort of shaking their head, like a little line, which is meaningless. but you are convincing yourself if you're the defense or prosecutor, that is what they wanted to hear, but that is what you do when you are waiting for the verdict. i was always superstitious as a prosecutor, when i got notes that i thought were good for me i was cautiously optimistic. so i think this prosecution team was cautiously optimistic because these notes they would lead you to believe are really good for the prosecution, because as jeremy said, they were highlighting, you know, a conspiracy that was hatched at the august 2015 meeting. that is josh stein glass, lead prosecutor. that is where he told them to focus at that meeting, that is when the conspiracy to promote the election by unlawful means was hatched. and that is the testimony they asked for back, esther pecker and also michael cohen's testimony to see if it matched davidfive's testimony.

so that is good for the prosecution we think. >> so, they are all on pins and needles, donald trump himself doesn't get to sit in trump tower, doesn't get to go golfing, can't be typing away on his phone. he has to sit there, show up for these deliberations, while the jury is in a sealed room. this has to be torture for him. >> yeah. and i think we are seeing him act out on social media, and we are seeing-- look, trump has historically thought these indictments were good for him and he has played this is a political trial, versus a real, legal trial. he has made it candidate trump and not dependent trump, and this has really backfire for him, at least with the civil cases. we will see for this. but, you know, he definitely thinks he can use this to an advantage. but in the end, he is just a criminal defendant like anyone else.

>> there is one juror who some people think could be problematic for the prosecution. >> people going over the way prosecutors are, remember, both sides took risks at the end of the jury selection process, they had to go with people that they would have if they had more parameters try to eliminate, but they didn't, so they start with one or two that they are worried about already, and yes, there is a couple of people, but i have noticed one, who's body language seems to suggest, be a little bit arm's- length from the others, whose attention seems a little less clear eyed and vivid, but look, that is a standard feature for any jury trial and especially at this point. your focus is there. the whole that. and can i say just one more quick thing? >> but it only takes one.

>> it only takes one command of course, and look, in a way this- - that is part of the system. i mean, he had to subject himself to the system, if he gets wins because of a holdout jury, it is a disaster politically, but the rule of law has had its way. unanimity as part of it, he got everything and nothing more, that was good enough, i just want to say, the evidence, besides being about michael cohen, specifically is on trump, trump is in the meeting, and there is a phone call that pecker remembers. because he is there, giving a presentation, the president of the united states on the phone and during this phone call the president of the united states says, deal with cohen, he is my guy. so it totally corroborates, in the mouth of trump, the mouth of pecker, and the da says that he played. >> if you are with donald trump off the attorneys, and it by minute, hour by hour, what are you telling him?

>> what am i telling him? i'm telling him that-- two separate things-- >> can you please pay me today sir? >> if i am having that conversation it is too late. >> this is a concern, hold onto it, i can promise you it is going to happen here, we will find out. control yourself inside that courtroom, though i don't really think they are controlling anything. i think donald trump is calling the shots. and that is the worst thing that is possible. at some point, i used this term before, it is not donald trump it is actually his attorneys saying i am the boss here, this is my house, my courtroom. this is my trench, you do what i tell you to do. donald trump doesn't operate that way. >> you know that is not happening. >> you didn't ask me that question. >> that is true. >> catherine, i know i am asking you to make an uneducated guest not guilty? guilty? hungry? what you think, based on what you think is the most likely outcome, and is a hung jury a clear victory for donald trump? >> yeah. for defense attorney the next

best thing to it an acquittal is a hung jury, because, yes, it will be possibly retried, but maybe it won't be. you hate to retry a case as a prosecutor, because you can't bring the witnesses back and-- >> and they know your playbook. >> and they know the playbook. so that would be a very big victory. i do not think-- it is easy to say, it will not be not guilty. i don't think 12 jurors will say not guilty, i will be shocked if that happens but i don't think that will happen. i think all of the evidence leads to 12 jurors saying guilty on all counts, but i would not be shocked if there are jurors that we don't know who just say i just can't go there, or i can only go there for the checks that he signed, denied checks. but those ledger entries, those invoices, maybe not. and then he would have guilty on nine counts or 11 counts because there are 11 checks, and then hung jury on others, or not guilty on others. that also happens in cases, where you have multiple counts

and i always said as a prosecutor that is good. that means it shows the jury was thinking, and they were thoughtful, they said guilty on this, but not guilty on that. i think da brought once 34 counts guilty, i don't think he would think it is a victory. i think it could end up that way, but if i was betting i would say guilty, but -- >> i will take that, i will take that bet. i think guilty, but very briefly, i mean, smiling jurors, a sleeping sledging juror is an we did juror, you have no idea whatsoever, until that verdict comes out. >> molly, let's talk about president biden. because while trump was sitting in court, president biden back on the campaign trail, he is taking a more aggressive's dance. >> yeah. >> when it comes to trumpet his legal troubles, however, donald trump, notably understandably continues to dominate headlines.

he is the first former president, possibly next president as a criminal defendant. what you think of president biden's current strategy, where should we go forward? >> so, he is running this slow and steady campaign, open field offices, doing-- in pennsylvania, by the way, biden loves pennsylvania. he is very excited to go to pennsylvania. this is what they tell me at the white house. there is one week where he went to pennsylvania three times and he was so delighted. >> okay, well-- he is originally from scranton, is an important date, it is easy to get to, like -- >> this is not-- this is not a criticism of pennsylvania, but clearly this man likes retail politics. he has been in the business for a long time. so, they are running this very, very normal campaign. you know, again, i have no crystal ball, but i do think they are opening field offices, and again, what they are trying to do and i think it is a good

thing. they are trying to pierce this media bubble, and whatever that looks like they are doing, and they are sort of throwing everything up the wall, and i that is a good thing. and it is and start contrast from hillary clinton's campaign in 2016, which did not have that same kind of fire. you can say what you want, but he is really opening the field offices and crisscrossing the country, and doing the hard work. now, whether it pays off in november i have no idea. >> all right. you know i am going to bring it up. justice, samuel alito, he has made it official, he will not recuse himself from any trump related cases despite these reports that two flags linked to the efforts to overturn the 2020 election results were flying on his home and his beach house in new jersey, what is your reaction to what he had to say. i asked my wife to take it down, she said she didn't want to. i mean-- just-- what is your take? >> okay, he knew it, he was squarely about whether he knew it, now there is no doubt, the

actual explanation that, oh, we own the house together, i have no power to get my wife to take it on is an embarrassment and it is also completely misses the point. the point is about the blazing advertisement that everyone else knows of this-- of what? the most upside down flag is stop the steel, so that is actually endorsing a substantive view, much more serious than taking money from someone, saying this is my view and it is the most burning question in american politics, and by the way, it is not even like a policy issue. there was no steel, right? it was just, there is some flying a flag that is-- crazy. so, i think it is very grave, it is the worst thing we have seen. >> but even this nonsense argument that, when they lose a flag in their home, because they were having this argument with a battering neighbor, let's pretend that that is true.

that isn't the only flag, they hung another flag in my hometown at the beach. okay? which is not a political place. the political arguments that we have there is, are you fishing today or are you crabbing? if you decide to hang a flag like that, you are telling an entire community, i am making a political statement, when you guys are deciding what beer you are drinking tonight. so, this argument, well, it was an issue-- that is not even true. >> it is a political statement, it is a legal statement, it has to do with the immunity, the freedom of exercise, it is a really bad, in terms of his judging an important case is to come. >> i'm sorry. >> so, democrats have an opportunity right now, dick durbin should be holding hearings today. okay? right? he can do this. and if he doesn't want to hold those hearings he can step down and let sheldon winehouse to it, because sheldon whitehouse has wanted that job-- yes, right. and so, look, this is-- alito

is behaving badly, but democrats have an opportunity here, they control the senate, they can hold hearings, they can make his life totally miserable, and they should. >> which is what republicans-- think about the hearings they hold. >> i want to tie this very beautifully back to donald trump. when he steps out of the courtroom he does everything in his power to dismantle and tear down one of the pillars of our country, which is the criminal justice system. forget the fact that this is in the courtroom but outside he does that, and we have someone who sits on the soup in court who at least has the appearance of bias and appearance of disregarding that same justice system, that's extremely problematic the argument that the homework has never worked at any-- for anyone at any point, it is an asinine argument, what you have the former president, one person sitting in the supreme court, both at least outwardly making it appear the appearance of during the justice system. >> and trump troost his thanks

to alito. >> stop saying that, he put himself on social media. i'm sorry. >> he put it on his social media platform. to alito for not recusing, which, if that isn't sketchy i don't know what is. >> all right, we are going to leave it there. thank you all so much for coming, but before we go to break, we will check in with that social media platform, dj t tracker, his social media company, i can't believe i'm saying this, it finished up a little more than a dollar, two and half percent. but here's the thing, where it is trading yet again has no connection to the underlying value of this company, because the actual company is not facing good news, the platform is struggling to hold onto its american user base, which is already smaller. think about it, this is the platform that the next potential

president of the united states uses and the americans on it is shrinking. according, daily visits are down more than 20% within the last month and more than 35% compared to march. we have got to keep thinking, why exactly are people buying this stock? we will keep watching it and make sure you know what is really going on every single day. when we return. these officers witnessed the threat of trump, firsthand on january 6th, and they are making sure voters do not forget it. officer harry dunn is here to talk about his campaign swing for biden, and later, how elon musk could help trump win or at least try to. we are just getting underway on a very important went tonight. . you've been waiting for. now there's an easier-to-use at home skin tag remover, clinically proven to remove skin tags safely in as little as one treatment.

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he tells the men and women who died serving and protecting this country losers. he constantly echoes the words of dictators and invokes the language of nazi germany, and pledging to rule as a dictator on day one. we can count on this institution to stop donald trump, it is going to take us, americans at the ballot box to defeat him once and for all. >> that, right there, his officer harry dunn, just outside of the manhattan courthouse, where donald trump is on trial. it has been nearly 3 years, since dunn testified before the january 6th committee and pleaded for congress to hold the former president accountable for the capitol attack. now he, and his fellow officers are taking matters into their own hands by campaigning alongside joe biden in key battleground states. i would like to welcome harry dunn, an officer who defended the capitol on january 6th, a

true patriot. his latest book, standing my ground, a capitol police officer's fight for accountability and good trouble after january 6th is out. now, harry, thank you so much for being here. following yesterday's remarks outside of the courthouse, that wasn't a one and done. you are now officially part of the biden campaign, what made you do this? and where are you going from here? >> hey, stephanie, so good to be with you again. you are right. if it definitely wasn't a one and done. we have a long way to go until november. and i'm all into do whatever it takes to land joe biden. >> you shut up for work on january 6th, 2021. aj nothing could prepare you for. where rioters were chanting the n-word at you, you state on the force for 2 more years before he resigned and got into politics yourself. you have been begging for this country, for our justice system, for lawmakers to hold

donald trump accountable, told republicans, who have denied january 6th accountable, what has this emotional journey been like for you? >> it has been incredible. and that is a very broad term communal, good, bad. i have just been all over the place. i used to play football, so i love the term, you leave it all on the field, and i will do whatever i can do to my left to do whatever it can to stop donald trump, not just stop donald trump, he is the threat right now, the biggest threat to our democracy, but just to stand up for what is right, to serve my country and i think that for the last 15 years i'm just doing whatever i can do to stop the fight to continue to fight the preservation of our democracy and the preservation of our constitution. >> you just ended your run for congress in maryland. what did you learn about border priorities? what do they want?

>> well, it is no question at all that democracy is at the top of the ballot. you know? obviously people are talking about the economy too, but, you know, what i could talk about firsthand experience, the threat to democracy. and just being a former congressional candidate, that is why i ran, honestly, january 6th, it happened, then america would not know who i am right now. so, but i just stop it up and met the moment, and it has been my message all along, that democracy is not a spectator sport, it is going to take every single person to stand up and do their part. and a lot of people, myself included maybe at one time has been dependent upon the justice system, the justice department to hold donald trump accountable for accountability, i just want accountability, but it seems like we can't count on these institutions, these institutions are only as strong as the people that are occupying them, as you just

talked about in your last segment, so, what we are going to do to stop donald trump is we have to do it as voters, as the american people and defeat him at the ballot box. >> i want to ask you about nikki haley. she campaigned as a law and order candidate, but you just through her endorsement behind donald trump. what you make of that decision, and what you say to her voters could be critical in november, you are out there talking to voters almost every day. >> yeah. one of the things nikki haley said constantly was she was running against donald trump is that he is unfit for office, he is mentally unstable and unfit for office, those were her words. did he just magically get cured from that? where did that go? this is the same individual that she is supporting now is the same individual that she said those things about, so, what, what changed? what changed? we have a clear choice at the president level in november, and that is joe biden.

it is very clear which president is going to preserve democracy, who is going to fight for the american people and who is only going to fight for themselves. and joe biden is the one that we need to elect. >> what is your message for donald trump as you had these added battleground states no matter what. >> that is the thing, stephanie, these people are with him no matter what. so we need to meet the people that are willing to listen, that actually do believe in democracy, that do believe in country over party, that believe in decency over dictatorship. we need those people, those are the ones that we are trying to reach, because, like you said, there are donald trump supporters that are unwavering and are going to always hold onto his lies, no matter what. and there are those individuals, but there are so many more people, i cannot here in nevada right now, some of the people

that i have-- nevada, excuse me, i have to learn better how to pronounce that. >> i was going to say, you better watch that, you say nevada, they will take you out. >> just talking to some of the people out here, they believe that's democracy is on the ballot this year, and like i said, just being out here, being able to talk to voters on the ground in battleground states and swing states, i just feel like i am doing my part to continue to tell my story and about what happened on january 6th and what can happen going forward. donald trump has already told us on day one he is going to be a dictator. like, these are their words that they are sing, nikki haley's words, donald trump's words, these aren't msnbc talking points, these aren't biden campaign talking points, donald trump has said these things himself, so it is up to us to take it at face value and continue to tell the voters, hey, this is what is at stake right now. and this seems like it is definitely front and center. >> officer done, it is always good to see you, and you can mispronounce nevada all the

time you want on the show, because i will tell you, i always get it wrong and i was get in trouble. thank you for being here. when we return, elon musk getting even cozier with trump. how that could influence other big business leaders to follow suit, and couldn't help plans trump a second term? when the 11th hour continues.

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some of the i've known for

a long time have great respect for i speak to them all the time, he's a great guy, one of our great brains, like great brains, and he one has done a fantastic job. elon musk is a guy that i like and respect, a friend of mine. you want, he is a friend of mine he does a good job. >> the wall street journal is reporting that donald trump and elon musk are building an alliance, as the campaign heats up. donald trump is talking about an advisory role for musk if you wins and musk is talking about using his clout in business and tech circles to get more ceos and business leaders on board with trump's campaign. here i'm going to discuss my friend, dan nathan, a contributor and host of the on the table podcast. what you think of this new, even cozier relationship between donald trump and elon musk and i want to remind our audience, elon musk is already deeply entangled with our government, and foreign governments, giving all of the contracts he has.

so, if he were to ever get some sort of role in a trump administration, he is filled with conflict of interest. >> here's the thing also, and you know this, they don't have a particularly cozy relationship. if you just take a listen to the sort of things they disagree on. china ev tariffs. that is something that you what is against right now. you think about just really, how they are aligned as it relates to sterling, he is the ceo of space x. this is the most highly valued private company out there. they own starling. obviously, ukrainians are using that to defend themselves versus russia. so, there is a whole list of things right? that they just do not agree on. four ev's, trump rails against that all the time. you want doesn't have a business right now if they are not getting this $7500 of cities. so, for me i find this very curious, i do think that article, but i found the most interesting though, with this data-driven fraud-- >> so, let's talk about that. it is not just elon musk, you have got monster investor,

nelson peltz, he and elon musk were contemplating investing in a data-driven platform focusing on voter fraud. both of these men, absurdly successful men know full well, there was no broad voter fraud in the last election, and by even flooding this to donald trump is like catnip for his number one conspiracy theory. how file is it that they are playing this game with him? >> listen, to be they are scoundrels. when i look at a guy, like partners nelson peltz, and i look at him siding with trump, right now he has endorsed him, he is going to be giving, you know, a lot of money. he is going to hold a lot of big dollar donors. you know, i just don't get it, right? he is a guy who distanced himself after january 6th, 2021. he said he was disgraced. he said in 2022, he was not going to be voting for donald trump. why is he aligning himself right now with him? he doesn't want the billionaire tax that is never going to happen right?

he doesn't want corporate tax rate to go up from 21% to possibly 28%, and they want deregulation right? >> they cannot stand the ftc. they talk about it every day, tomorrow, yesterday, but how about the fact that, not just these two, all of these business guys out there know, the joe biden presidency, look at the stock market, it has been extra ordinary for them. all that president biden is doing on eb subsidies is a grand slam home run for elon musk. none of these guys acknowledge that? >> yeah, well, think about it, we just talked about the stock market, that is not the economy you and i talk about. >> is not the economy, certainly not the economy for the lower income people, but it is the economy for these two. >> they are at 50 year lows, inflation is still high, but it is coming to me look at the legislative achievement, fiscal stimulus that the biden administration is able to put through. i think for all intents and purposes, the economy is doing a lot better than i thought it would be doing, midyear 2024 right now. >> especially for both people.

when you have a debate, do we have a good economy or not, i get it, it is not good for lower income people. it is a struggle for people who can't make rent, or trying to buy their first home. let's be clear, the richest of the rich people have gotten exponentially richer in the last few years, it is gangbusters time for them. so, what is it that is giving them the willingness? our colleagues at cnbc, currently reporting that big gop donors, especially wall street ones, seem absolutely unphased by the fact that donald trump could be convicted, why is that? >> well, it is not just that, steph, if you think about this, this election is about the future of democracy in this country, and if you think about all those folks who distanced themselves after january 6 right? where we had a violent insurrection on our capitol that was in goodbye-- well, they made the comments that came out, they said it and when i think about some of these folks, j.p. morgan, i think we were talking about a couple weeks ago. he said, well, he said it's too

cnbc, donald trump did a lot of good things. welcome at the end of the day, if you are a ceo of the largest ink in the world, you want people from around the world to me what companies to do business here in america, you want them to do business with your bank, if you can't separate, okay? like this kind of-- >> here is what it is-- here is what it is. is that when donald trump was in office, they thought donald trump was a clown, but steven mnuchin called them all the time, jared called them all the time, and when covid hit, they were all willing to play ball and say, come on in, let's figure out what companies do you own and how can we help? it is that trump had his doors open with guys saying, i want to play ball, because i want to do business with you forever and biden doesn't-- doesn't say that to them, but his actual policies are good for them. >> no doubt. listen, why is steve schwartzman of blackstone? he wants lower interest rates, what is donald trump keep saying? he will lower interest rates. >> and guess what? the president can control where

interest rates are. >> well, he said he wants to take over the bed. he wants to be an autocrat, he wants to be a dictator. so think about all of the bankruptcies he has had in his history, and his business life over the last 30 years. >> please, bankrupt over six times, and as we are watching in this trial, his demand and practice, never pay any of his bills in full, they had better be 20% down or less. that is a business. always great to see you. when we return, this guy just came from a liberty gang, who is talking about the wnba? this guy. president biden was on the campaign trail is kamala harris, i want to go inside the campaign's new strategy when the 11th hour rolls on. on.

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it has superior hold plus keeps us comfy all day with it's pressure absording layer. time for a bite! if your mouth could talk it would ask for... poligrip. you know, donald trump once asked black americans, quote, excuse the language, what the hell do you have to lose from a trump presidency? and sadly, we all know too well. >> my angela said, when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time, you got it, kid. you got it. i have shown you who i am, trump has shown you who he is. >> in a rare joint appearance on the campaign trail today, the president and vice president try to shore up support in the black community and had donald trump's actual

record in the process. former chief and federal prosecutor stevens, of the mitt romney and george w. bush presidential campaigns. he is now with the lincoln project, ron, what you think of this message to the biden campaign needs to draw this contrast more often, actually talk about trump's record and what they have done? >> absolutely. if you look at the results from pennsylvania in 2020 presidential election, a couple of numbers really jump out off the page at you. one is, trump won the noncollege white vote, by 59 points, that is an astonishing number how did biden overcome that? he overcame that with black voters and white college- educated voters. biden spoke directly to those constituencies today, with the number of policy arguments, but also i think he delivered two very powerful lines that spoke to those constituencies as well.

one was, he asked them, if the january 6th rioters were blm protesters, and trump was president, what would trump have done? how would he have handled them? that was one great line, and would trump be calling the patriots and offering them pardons? that was one great line, and the other thing that i have noticed that they have added to biden's speeches is, mental fitness. trump's mental fitness. uses this line, something snapped and trump after he lost the election. i love that line, and i hope that they continue to challenge the mental fitness of donald trump. >> stewart, what you think? >> look, i think the campaigns are about choices, and more that president biden and vice president harris get out there and draw the confidence to donald trump the better it is. this is historical contrast we have had, i mean, since the

last election and before that it pales. i mean, i work for romney, we lost, but we went to bed that night, we were worried about the country. that is how it is supposed to work. so, you know, i would be in the camp working for the biden campaign to wake up every day and hit donald trump and make this race about big stuff. i mean, he is going to carry pennsylvania, and i think is going to carry it by a large margin than he did last time. >> let's talk about contrast, stuart, because president biden has lost some progressive support over the war in gaza. meanwhile, you have got nikki haley, donald trump's latest endorser, in israel scrawling finished them! writing the words on idf artillery shells. to those voters, who are disillusioned with president biden, do they think that biden cares enough-- they don't think that president biden cares enough about this humanitarian

crisis committee to hear what is being offered by the republican party on the other side? >> yeah. so, you have got a guy who ran on the platform of banning muslims in the country, a religious just. nikki haley, i've said this before, has a great future behind her. she has just become this sort of not serious person. who is now going through the sort of trump like stunts to curry favor with donald trump. look, i've worked a lot in israel, about pro-israeli as you get there. but anything that is inflammatory in this moment is not well served anybody. and it is just -- it is just small and petty, and really stupid, and she should be ashamed of herself. >> ron, how difficult is this one for biden to thread the situation and does is devastating that it is a humanitarian crisis, but it is hard for him to say to progressives, but where trump is offering you is way worse. but that is the point he needs to make. >> that's true.

another thing trump has said as he will deport student protesters. he will-- if they are foreign students he will send them back to their country. so, that is another contrast. and you use the right term, thread the needle. i mean, this is-- trump has this issue very easy. the republican party overwhelmingly favors maximum support for israel, no help to gaza, no humanitarian aid, it is very simple for donald trump to carveout his position with his base, the problem for joe biden is his base, because he has two conflicting, opposing views in his own base, so he has got to be careful not to alienate either one. and that is what makes this much more difficult for him than trump. >> stewart, if donald trump is convicted, you see any group of voters who are currently leaning, or possibly going to vote for trump, who won't if he is convicted? >> yes. i think, look, no one likes to be convicted of a felony.

there's no part of american life that said, welcome i would have hired that person, if they weren't convicted of a felony. i think it has a corrosive effect. i don't think a lot of people in the polls say, i didn't vote for him, because he was just convicted, but there is something about it, it is just -- it is not what you want to see in the oval office. and i think that, you know, as this risk goes closer and closer and narrows it will become a more serious choice. right now you so you are for donald trump, so what? it doesn't mean anything, everyone wants a choice, but i think, the middle of october, i tend to think that donald trump very well may collapse. >> well, we will soon find out. stewart and ron, thank you both for being here. the 11th hour will be right back after this. back after thi.

heart. i had the pleasure of joining lessons in dyslexic thinking podcast. that you are probably thinking that is why she can't read the prompter, you are right. you can check this out on the made by dyslexia youtube page or listen on apple podcast. on that note, i wish you all a very good night. from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late. i'll see you at tend of tomorrow. tonight on all in. >> and the jurors have been sent to begin their deliberations.