disengaged, getting news from tiktok. >> i'm so happy to see the campaign engaging on all those different platforms. if you were not following biden hq and the tweets and the clap backs and receipts constantly coming out of that account, we have to talk to people wherever they are. philly elmo is the philadelphia icon, okay, just like in the anals of gritty of all the rest. for folks who didn't get it, if you know you know. >> this is luckily tapes we can play it back for you, and we will delight in that replay. thank you for your time tonight, sir, great to see you as always. pennsylvania state representative malcolm kenyatta. that is our show for this evening. "way too early" with jonathan lemire is coming up next. america's always been a place where we worked towards a more perfect union, where those who are excluded in the past are

included in the promise of the country today. i still believe that. i'm still optimistic, but i need you. so my question for you is simple, a simple one. are you with me? talk to your family. >> that was president biden receiving chants of four more years from a crowd in philadelphia yesterday where he and the vice president made a pitch to black voters. we'll have more from their campaign stop in just a moment. meanwhile, the former president was stuck in a courthouse holding room as a jury deliberated his fate in the criminal hush money case. we'll recap everything and bring you expert legal analysis. also ahead we'll go through new reporting on senator rick scott's latest bid to replace mitch mcconnell as the next

republican leader in the upper chamber. all right, good morning and welcome to "way too early" on this thursday, may 30th. still may. i'm sam stein in for jonathan lemire. we are on a verdict watch this morning. in just hours the jury in the donald trump hush money criminal trial is set to resume deliberating for a second straight day in a new york city courthouse, but first the jury will start the day by reviewing testimony from two key witnesses and getting a refresher on the judge's instructions. that's because just hours into their first day of deliberations yesterday the jurors had questions for the judge and sent two notes back to the courtroom. in the first note the jury made four requests regarding portions of of testimony they wanted review, specifically they asked to rehear testimony from

ex-national enquirer publisher david pecker and former trump attorney and fixer michael cohen. in a second note they asked that the jury instructions be reread to them. there's no word yet on whether they requested a reread on a specific portion of the instructions or if they want all 55 pages repeated. following that second request and after a total of about 4 1/2 hours of deliberating, jauj juan merchan adjourned the court for the day. this morning the jury will return at 9:30. the judge said the jurors can decide to work later today if needed but not past 6:00 p.m. the jury must decide on 34 felony counts that trump falsified business records with the intent to defraud and he concealed the conspiracy to promote his election through unlawful means, and they must agree unanimously for guilt or for acquittal. as the jury was deliberating yesterday former president trump spent time in a courthouse

holding room complaining and firing off misinformation on his social media platform. in one post he claimed no crime was committed, in another he attacked the judge and claimed the jury instructions were biased and unfair. he also spoke to reporters outside the courtroom. >> mother theresa could not read these charges. these charges are rigged. mother theresa could not defeat these charges, but we'll see. we'll see how we do. >> all right, let's bring in msnbc justice and legal affairs analyst anthony coley to talk about it all. anthony, let's start with jury notes. what do we make of the fact that they requested those specific things? and does it give us any insight into what we can expect from an ultimate decision from the jury? >> right, so none of us know what's in the minds of none of these jurors. if you're in the prosecution you

take some comfort and solace in knowing four questions have to do with that very first meeting at trump tower. that happened in august 2015 with michael cohen, with david pecker, the head of the national enquirer, and donald trump. our friend katie phang describes this as the original and she's right because this is where the catch and kill scheme was initially developed. it's where david pecker promised to be the eyes and ears for the trump campaign, where he would suppress stories unfavorable to trump. this ming put donald trump in the room where it happened, and this is important because throughout the trial we saw the defense really try to put distance between this entire scheme. but this meeting, this is where everything else flowed.

>> if you're the prosecution why do you take solace? is it because a clear acquittal you would even need that? >> this is where it started, right? and you want to connect donald trump to the entire scheme, and that's what this does in real ways the jury can understand. the fact they started there, the jury started with this, you get some comfort from that if you're the prosecution. >> why does the jury need to get reread the instructions? why can't they have a physical copy with them? >> you know, that is a question in the federal system you are allowed to have copies. this is a unique quirk of new york law. and i've said some lawyers who have practiced in new york say it is designed so that individual jurors can just focus on the nuance of the law and perhaps get tricked up by it. that's what some legal

practitioners in new york are saying. i don't like it but, you know, we'll see. >> if you can bring us into that room. like, are they sitting around a table? are they going over evidence? is it usually they have one or two jurors who take command and sift through the questions they have to solve? >> so the jury foreman is the one who sent out those notes. in this case the jury foreman was the very first person selected. i'm not sure you've ever served on a jury or not. >> i've never had the luxury. >> abut you can see everything from styrofoam cup tuesday just candid conversations that happens. what we don't know is a lot of people are saying, yes, this is good for the prosecution that they started with these documents. but if you play the flip side of this, you know, one could reasonably assume that perhaps there is a jury that -- a juror that has questions about these testimony, and the other jurors want to, you know, show with

both of the testimony from both pecker and michael cohen side by side why the juror perhaps isn't seeing it the right way. this is why i'm saying we really cannot get into the mind of these jurors. >> lastly, quickly, are we going to get a decision this week or not? >> i think so. the general rule of thumb in circles is that a jury will deliberate one day for every week of service. and in this case it's generally five or so days. now, listen, those could be my famous last words. i hope you don't replay this tape, but i'm not expecting a verdict this week. >> nbc justice legal affairs analyst anthony coley, thank you so much. >> and we'll turn to the supreme court where justice alito will not recuse himself from two pending cases related to former president trump and the january 6th attack on the capitol. justice alito wrote letters to democratic members of congress who called for his recusal over

two flags flown outside his homes connected to trump supporters in the stop the steal movement. justice alito said he had nothing to do with either incident writing, quote, my wife is fond of flying flags, i'm not. she was solely responsible for having flagpoles put up at our residence and vacation home and have flown a wide variety of flags over the years. "the new york times" was first to report on an upside down american flag that flew at the alito's home in vurnl less tha weeks after the insurrection. the justice had said his wife put the flag up after a vulgar exchange with a narron. however the neighbor has since told the paper the exchange happened weeks after the flag was displayed. "the times" then reported last week on the appeal to heaven flag flown at the alito's home on long island beach last summer. several of those flags were with trump supporters during the capitol attack. the flag dates back to the revolutionary war, it has become

a symbol for the original stop the steal movement and a push for more christian minded government. >> still ahead we'll get the latest from the middle east and what secretary blinken is saying about israel's lack of a post war plan for gaza. that plus a check on sports and weather when we come right back. weather when we come right back. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000

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welcome back to "way too early." the israeli military says it has seized control of a border that separates gaza and egypt. an area known as the corridor and getting control of the boundary will, quote, cut off the terrorist's access to supplies. the move however could complicate the relationship wejipt as the corridor is considered a key buffer zone. israel, however, is signaling the war with gaza could continue through at least the end of

year. the country's national security advisor made the comment yesterday saying he expects to see another seven months of combat in order to, quote, shore up our achievement. u.s. secretary of state anthony blinken was asked about that while in moldova and expressed his frustration with israel's lack of a post-war plan. >> it has to ask whether and especially in the absence of a plan for the day after in gaza further incremental gains against hamas but gains that may not be durable in terms of hamas' defeat in the absence of a plan, how that stacks up against some of the again unintended but horrific consequences of military action in a place where the people you're going after are so closely embedded with civilians.

>> talk about diplomatic speak. secretary blinken also suggested that the biden administration could be open to tolerating strikes by the ukrainian military inside russia using american made weapons saying the u.s. adapt and adjust its stance based on changing conditions on the battlefield some of president biden's advisers tells "the new york times" if the president does change his view, it will most likely come with severe restrictions how the ukrainians could use american approved arms limiting them to military targets just inside russia's borders that are involved in attacks in ukraine. it comes as some of america's allies have intensified calls to allow ukraine to use western weapons inside of russia. last week in an interview with the economist nato's secretary-general said ukraine's recent losses in kharkiv could be countered if ukraine had the ability to take out russia's weapons setup across the border.

i'd watch this space. and still ahead we'll turn to sports with a significant update on the controversial arrest of the world's number one golfer. we'll have the highlights from last night's action on the ice and the stanley cup playoffs. all that and a check on the forecast when we come right back. heck on the forecast when we come right back centrum! it's scientifically formulated to help you take charge of your health. centrum gives every body a healthy foundation. supporting your - oops - energy, immunity and metabolism. and yours too! you did it! plus try centrum silver, now clinically proven to support memory in older adults. (man) mm, hey, honey. now clinically proven looks like my to-do list grew.

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by the evidence. quote, they do satisfy the elements of any criminal offenses. scheffler was arrested earlier this month while trying to drive around traffic outside the valhalla golf club during the pga championship. he was accused of failing to follow orders from the police who were investigating a fatal accident outside the club earlier that morning. police alleged he had dragged detective bryan gillis who was trying to stop scheffler's car. in a statement posted on social media yesterday, scheffler wrote, quote, as i stated previously this was an unfortunate misunderstanding. i hold no ill will towards officer gillis. i wish to put this incident behind me and move on and hope he will do the same. gillis later responded with a statement of his own saying in part mr. scheffler and i both agree there will be no ill will going forward. he maintained he was dralged by the car to the ground and

sustained visible injuries to his knees and wrists and added, quote, i'm going to recover from it and it will be okay. both men also turned attention back to the men who had been working for a tournament vendor when he was struck and killed by a shuttle bus outside the club earlier that morning. scheffler was booked and released less than two hours before his second round tee time. he had faced four charges including felony assault of a police officer, truly one of the wilder sports stories of the year. turning now to the stanley cup playoffs and game four of the western conference final, the edmonton oilers dominated the stars at home last night coming back from an early two goal deficit to tie the games at two apiece. game five is tomorrow night in dallas. and tonight the new york rangers host the florida panthers. that series is also tied. now to the court at the french open tennis tournament in paris, and yesterday's second round

showdown between the top raced the former number one naomi osaka. surging down the stretch saved a match point and took the last five games to come away with a three set victory extending her winning streak at roland garros to three straight matches. turning now to major league baseball and another dominant performance on the mound for the pittsburgh pirates rookie. to detroit the starter rallied the tigers to help with a 10-2 win yesterday on his 22nd birthday, ending his fourth major league start a game of just two runs and three hits and six innings of work to earn his second career victory. we've talked ability him on "morning joe" before. he's the most exciting pitcher in the big league. just got to hope his elbow holds

up. to city field in queens los angeles dodgers superstar shohei ohtani hit his 14th home run of the season and three runs as the dodgers completed a three game sweep of the slumping new york mets 10-4 win yesterday. shohei is just a beast. the majority of l.a.'s runs came courtesy of later late game by the mets which included reliever jorge lopez throwing his glove into the stand after being ejected as the third base umpire over his ruling. lopez untucked his jersey and threw his glove over the netting into the crowd as he walked off the field. quite the scene. in the post game interview lopez expressed mow remorse for his actions and labeled the mets as the worst team in the league. the team later announced the reliever was being cut from the roster. i wonder why. honestly, you shouldn't reward

that behavior, right? time now for the weather and for that let's go to meteorologist angie lassman for the forecast. angie, what's going on out there? >> you know what, sam, what's going on is more severe weather. we're going to ramp things up again this afternoon for more where the that came from. we've got the satellite and radar showing you some of the thunderstorms stretched across parts of the plains. no surprise. we do have a slight risk for a good chunk of that region but also an enhanced risk. we're going to see clusters of thunderstorms popping up and impacting folks even into the evening hours tonight. notice where we're most concerned amarillo to lubbock but dallas included in the metro and oklahoma city with baseball sized hail as well as potential for strong wind gusts. tornado risk is low, but again that hail will be quite large with 10 million people at risk through the day today. by tomorrow more of the same. more severe weather. we've got the risk including

dallas, austin, houston, and alexandria as we get into the day tomorrow. on top of that really heavy rain will be possible, so localized flash flooding will be something we watch for along with all the other impacts. looks mainly to be the severe wind gusts we'll watch out for. by saturday the heavy rain moves farther to the east so parts of the great lakes and ohio valley we'll watch for that as well as parts of the gulf coast. strong storms from colorado to tennessee. now, weekend looks pretty good on the book ends of the country. we've got your friday looking great really from the north east to the southeast, maybe some showers across florida but that's about it. there's those storms i mentioned across the middle of the country, and the west coast looks great, too. even from the rockies to the coast we've got really warm temperatures especially interest the southwest, so triple digits will be on tap for folks there, but otherwise sunshine on top. it's those storms we'll watch for saturday stretching up into the great lakes so it'll be

unsettled for folks there, and still humid and stormy across parts of the gulf coast rather here as we get into your sunday, but still sunshine on the east coast. sam, i know folks are excited about that because let me tell you they sure complain in the north east when it rains every weekend. this weekend not so much. >> i prefer the rain, just my demeanor. i did see the graphic that says east coast great day. that's all we need to hear. still ahead inside republican senator rick scott's bid to replace minority leader mitch mcconnell. what he's doing to set himself apart from the other two candidates hoping to fill the leadership spot. we're back in just a moment. e leadership spot. we're back in just a moment. and stabbing pain in my hands, so i use nervive. nervive's clinical dose of ala reduces nerve discomfort in as little as seven days. now i can help again feel the difference with nervive.

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all right, welcome back to "way too early," the show that live by its name. it's 5:30 on the east coast, 2:30 out west. still weird to say 2:30 out west. i'm sam stein in for jonathan lemire. elon musk may become an advisor for former president trump if the presumptive gop nominee wins re-election in november. they've spoken several times a month and discussed ways for the tesla ceo to give his input on issues like border security. 2017 musk resigned from two white house advisory councils after trump withdrew from the paris climate agreement. the tech entrepreneur has yet to officially endorse trump. meanwhile on the race to succeed mitch mccom, florida senator

rick scott is betting on himself as the senate's next gop leader in part by capitalizing on negative sentiments towards mcconnell from the conference. that's according from axios. axios reports both are viewed as mcconnell allies while scott is proposing a new way of doing business in the senate. joining us now is congressional reporter for axios. pleasure, thanks for joining us. your reporting about rick scott's maneuvering, tell us more about his bid to replace mcconnell and how serious is it and the specifics of that presentation, that he's the anti-mcconnell. >> sure. it's as serious as the other two, right? >> remind the viewers how those went, please. >> look, we're a long way out from january, which is when this is going to be decided. what is going to be important here is what does the republican

conference look like? how many senatorerize there? do they have 53 seats, 52 seats? do they blow out democrats if they get 55 seats? john thune and john corner both viewed as mcconnell allies, telling specifically conservatives he wants to do business differently in the senate. number one, he wants term limits for leaders. he wants one six-year term and that's essentially through congress and he wants bills to go through the committee process. there's a lot of frustration especially with conservatives about the way power has been consolidated not only within the hands of mitch mcconnell but within the hands of chuck schumer in the senate. >> he ran for leader and lost two times as you noted. what is his reputation among his colleagues? i know there's a lot of ill will between him and mcconnell, but what about the broader senate gop? >> look, i think he's popular with conservatives.

didn't go well. there was a lot of, you know, sort of finger pointing going around the party when they didn't perform probably how they wanted to perform. they wanted to take a majority. again, popular with conservatives, popular among people who share the same ideology. liked by president trump which is big plus in his book. he told me he spoke with president trump briefly before he announced. it's unclear if he'll be in his corner but if he could get him in his corner. >> let's talk about trump and the role he plays in the conference. in the house it's different. everyone wants to be aligned with donald trump. he can sway an election or primary i should say. in the senate it hasn't always been that way, and mcconnell has survived largely despite being targeted by trump repeatedly. so what is the trump factor here really? >> in this race it's very interesting, actually. when you look at leader it's a private ballot, you don't know who votes for who. you need a simple majority to

become leader. that in some ways takes away trump's influence. if he doesn't know, if the party doesn't know who you're voting for behind closed doors there's thinking out there it takes away his influence when he's trying to pressure people to vote for "x," "y," "z" for leader. in this specific case his influence is kind of waning. >> last question here. one of the features in the past two years that's been somewhat remarkable is that there's been actual collaboration in the senate and past years you've seen infrastructure, even guns, you've seen chips, things like that. will that just cease to be if mcconnell goes and rick scott comes in? >> well, one of the main things rick scott criticized if we can take this congress ukraine deal to get bipartisan ukraine aid billions of dollars paired with ukraine aid as well, he's upset with that and the fact he said there's a back room deal between

chuck schumer and mitch mcconnell to get that aid through the chamber. he says he wants things to be done in daylight and go through the regular committee process. i don't know if that would be gone but the relationship between schumer and mcconnell is long one. >> the relationship between biden and mcconnell too. so biden could potentially win again. can't discount that. congressional reporter for axios, thank you for coming in. and still ahead we'll go live to cnbc for an early look what's driving the day on wall street after a rise in treasury yields has investors concerned about what the federal reserve might do with interest rates. plus the price of orange juice is rising around the world. we'll dig into what's causing the poor harvest and the alternative options manufacturers are considering. "way too early" will be right back. e considering. "way too early" will be right back

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all right, it's time for business, and for that let's bring in cnbc's silvia amaro live from london. silvia, thanks for joining us. investors will be looking toward weekly jobless claim numbers due out later this morning. how's the market shaping up? >> good morning. so indeed at this stage futures suggest it could be a lower start to the trading session on wall street today, and this is after we saw the nasdaq, s&p, and dow, all of them ending wednesday's session in the red. now, one of the stocks we're closely monitoring this morning is actually salesforce. this is after in extended trade we saw the shares down around 16% after the company missed on revenue expectations during their first quarter. now, today a lot of focus is on weekly jobless claims. on top of that there's also a second reading when it comes to

gdp out of the united states. however, the key economic data this week is due tomorrow when we get new pce figures which are closely followed by the fed. this is also why we're keeping a close eye on those. >> all right, mining giant bhp is walking away from its roughly $50 billion take over bid for anglo american. what does that mean for the mining industry? >> so this has been a bit of a saga really that has keeping us all entertained over the last couple of weeks or so. the latest is that bhp has said it's not going to go ahead with a firm offer for anglo-american, and this is after the latter rejected an extension in their take over conversations. now, what this saga really has told us is that there's a lot of interest in this space, and we could see mega-deals in the mining industry taking place. this is also because there's actually quite a lot of interest, quite a lot of demand

for copper, and that is essentially shedding light on what could happen in this space and why mining is taking such a center stage when it comes to some of the interest among investors. >> and this one is my favorite. prices of orange juice have reached a new high forcing some makers to consider alternative fruits. all right, so what's driving the prices up? but also what are the alternative fruits? >> yeah. so after cocoa prices, coffee prices, we're now also looking at orange juice prices exactly because they have been going up. there's two main reasons behind this. first and foremost is extreme weather conditions, and on top of that disease in brazil, which is the largest exporter of orange juice really. now, let's see what will happen here. they are looking at either citrus fruits as alternatives for orange juices going forward.

let's see what will happen there, but know that for the time being this is bad news for orange juice drinkers out there. >> it is bad news, but my kids like apple juice, and so, you know, i'm doing fine. >> there you go. >> cnbc's silvia amaro, thank you very much live from london. really appreciate it. still ahead president biden and vice president kamala harris, they made a campaign stop in philadelphia and warned against a second trump presidency. we'll play for you their comments as they launch a new effort to win over black voters. "way too early" will be right back. n over black voters. "way too early" will be right back has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or

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in one of their largest campaign events yet president biden and vice president harris rallied together in philadelphia yesterday. the event was launched in the campaign's planned outreach to black voters, a key voter block it will need to be successful in

november. biden and harris focused their remarks on the needs of black americans. >> because black americans voted, kamala and i are president and vice president of the united states because of you. that's not hyperbole. because you voted donald trump is a defeated former president. with your vote in 2024 we're going to make donald trump a loser again. maya angelou said when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. you got it, kid. you got it. i've shown you who i am and trump has shown you who he is. and today donald trump is pandering and pedaling lies and desire yo types for your votes so he can win for himself and not for you. donald trump, i have a message for you, not in our house and not on our watch. >> if he wins a second term, i

promise you he's going to go even further. so all of this is to say who sits in the white house matters. it matters. it matters for the people of america and for people around the world. >> all right, joining us now is moynihan public scholar fellow at the city college of new york, christina greer. thanks so much for joining us. obviously the black vote is critical for the biden/harris campaign if they want to win in november. what does the campaign needs to focus on if it wants to get the voters reengaged and enthused? they need to utilize their surrogates across the country especially in fwatalground states like milwaukee and detroit and swing states where

we've seen there are stories about suppressed black and latino turnout. they do matter. and i think they need to make a clear case that the pocketbook issues that the biden/harris has done for so many americans but especially black and latino americans. debt relief is huge. it goes a long way in helping black families build wealth. pocketbook issues especially matter when people think about the cost of housing, education, gas. you were just talking about apple juice and orange juice. these things matter and articulating all the different ways they're making changes in macro minor ways that will affect voters in november and beyond, obviously. >> we have a piece about politico today that looks at some of this. one of the problems we were told about frankly from black operatives in the field and lawmakers is that there's just an information gap, that a lot

of what's happening is voters aren't aware of some of the accomplishments the administration has had but secondarily those accomplishments are being blotted out a little bit by inflation, by cost of living. that, yes, funding for hbcus is important but cost of groceries is actually more important in the minds of voters. can you talk about both of those elements here? >> yeah, you know, there's not just an information gap, there's also the misinformation and disinformation that permeates in black communities especially. you know, i've done some work myself looking at how and why disinformation gets into black communities and places like facebook where these, you know, traffic -- certain lies can just spread really quickly. you know, my colleague has the black onyx collective where she's looking at specific ways black voters are being targeted with misinformation and disinformation. you're absolutely right.

inflation matters. it's the first time we're seeing this real domestic intersection. oftentimes there's very little daylight between democratic and republican policies. but this is -- at least for right now we'll see how it plays out in late october and early november where a lot of voters are looking at the amount of money we're spending abroad and really saying, wait, i thought you had we didn't have enough money for better schools in my community. i thought you said we didn't have enough money for infrastructure. i thought you said we didn't have enough money for all the things we need in our communities, but we're seeing billions of dollars -- not millions but billions of dollars being spent abroad. if that is the case the biden-harris administration needs to articulate why it is that money is being spent so th. what we saw yesterday was more of the combative case. biden taking direct shots at donald trump in his speech. is that the right strategy? do you focus on the opposition and warn about the consequences

of that? >> well, i think he must in certain ways because we know that donald trump has no problem lying and no problem using trafficking and stereotypes in the worst ways. what donald trump is effective at doing is essentially saying, look at your life. it's not fantastic, right? we have structural and institutional issues that have permeated this country since its inception, that disproportionately disadvantaged black americans. those are just the facts. donald trump likes to exploit that. if joe biden is serious about maintaining black voters and also pulling in black voters who might be willing to leave the party, he has to go after the misinformation and disinformation coming out of the trump campaign and coming from the former president. >> all right. public scholar fellow at the city college of new york, christina greer, thank you so much for joining us. really appreciate it. up next, we'll dig into the biden campaign's new strategy as it tries to break through the coverage of donald trump's criminal trial. plus, what the campaign is

now saying about robert de niro's appearance outside the courthouse. coming up on "morning joe," the trump trial jury finishes day one of deliberation without reaching a verdict. we'll go over the testimonies they want to revisit. also ahead, new york governor kathy hochul will be live in studio. "morning joe" is just moments away. (♪♪) when life spells heartburn... how do you spell relief? r-o-l-a-i-d-s rolaids' dual-active formula begins to neutralize acid on contact. r-o-l-a-i-d-s spells relief. (man) mm, hey, honey. looks like my to-do list grew. "paint the bathroom, give baxter a bath,

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robert de niro's press conference outside the courthouse is being called a good moment. senior aides viewed the oscar winner's appearance, along with officers harry dunn and michael finone, as effective. it came as part of the biden campaign's push to lay out the stakes of the election while trying to break through the trump news cycle, which receives wall to wall coverage. joining us now is senior columnist for "the daily beast," matt lewis. matt, thank you for joining us. what did you make of the de niro appearance outside the trial, and did it benefit biden?

>> it struck me as kind of weird and maybe a nonsnonsector. there are strategies to run the race if you're joe biden. one strategy, let's be a contrast to donald trump. let's be competent. let's be prprudent. let's valens constitutions and norms. the other strategy says, no, the world has changed. we're in the attention economy. the way to win is get attention, and you have to fight fire with fire. i think either of those theories, one could maybe a pretty good argument for. the problem is if you mix and match them. i think up until now, when it comes to this trial, joe biden's strategy has been, don't let it look like we're putting our thumb on the scale. let's kind of be above this. then right at the 11th hour, they come in with robert de niro, and it seems to, i think, undermine their strategy up until now. >> yeah, they argue, you know,

we weren't talking about the trial. we were talking about threats to democracy. clearly, they were trying to take advantage of the trial and draw attention to it, right? >> absolutely. you go where the cameras are. i understand that. that's where they went. it was unavoidable that de niro would be asked about the trial, even if he wanted to focus solely on democracy. the other point i would make, and all due respect to robert de niro, who had an amazing career and is still relevant, but 25 years ago, he would have been a more powerful surrogate for joe biden than he is today. i'm not sure that he connects as much as the biden team might actually believe he does in this era. >> i'm sorry they didn't get bradley cooper for you, matt. geez! some de niro slander here. let's switch to trump. he was booed at the libertarian convention last weekend. you know, not unexpectedly, frankly, but is he making any inroads with voters who don't identify as republican or

democrat? why do you think he showed up? >> look, i think he showed up because even though -- the sense is that trump is winning. the sense is that he has momentum. this is a really, really close race. donald trump, i think, to his credit, appreciates that. the truth is, if you look back at 2020, there were three states where the libertarian candidate garnered enough votes that if they'd gone to trump, he would have won. it is not irrational, but i do think that trump has delusions of grandeur. he believes if he gets in front of an audience, he can win them over with his charm. it just didn't work. it was embarrassing. trump tried multiple things. he tried to make common cause with the libertarians, like the man is out to get me, too. then he tried to bribe them by offering to commute the sentence of a nefarious character they're championing. then he started nagging them, if you want to lose, go ahead and get your 3%. he went through the cycles of

grief on stage. at the end of the day, i think it was really embarrassing. they weren't yelling "moo" like the baltimore orioles fans do when colton calzer was up there. they were clearly booing him. >> matt, you don't need to get reference to your beloved orioles into every segment you do. let's talk about the month, the week, the year. this verdict will come at some point. might not be today, may not be tomorrow, but it will come. if trump is found guilty, does it shake up the race? does he run as a convicted felon? can he do it successfully? and, you know, frankly, does it turn off voters, or is it ultimately immaterial? >> i think it definitely hurts trump, but not to the degree that a rational person would believe, right? if you would have asked me five years ago, someone is convicted of a felony. i would say it's over. that's not the case. i think it definitely hurts

trump, but biden has to make the case. it won't just automatically lose the election. biden is going to have to still make the argument, and i don't think it is decisive. i don't think that simply being found guilty -- of course, he's going to appeal it anyway before the election -- i don't think that in and of itself is enough to guarantee that biden would win. >> remarkable thing, a convicted felon. would have been crazy to hear not just a couple years ago. senior columnist for "the daily beast," orioles fan and not the biggest fan of robert de niro, apparently, matt lewis. thank you for getting up "way too early" with us on this morning. "morning joe" starts right now. then trump tells you he is the greatest president -- i love this one -- he says he is the greatest president for black people in the history of america, including more than abraham lincoln. [ crowd