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to review a key meeting among donald trump, michael cohen, and the prosecution's first witness, former tabloid executive and trump friend david pecker. all of that key evidence about the alleged conspiracy mr. trump is accused of to unlawfully influence the 2016 election. this is pivotal, because as judge merchan noted in his jury instructions, former president trump cannot be convicted based

on cohen's testimony alone, since trump's former fixer is considered, by law, an accomplice. jurors must be taking a closer look from what they have asked for at pecker's testimony in order to corroborate cohen. jurors wanted to rehear judge merchan's guidance on how much they can reasonably infer from the evidence. armed with this refresher, the jurors are now back behind closed doors where they have been told they can work as late as 6:00 p.m. tonight. while deliberations tonight, mr. trump has to stay in the courthouse. his son don junior providing a look in a tiktok video. we begin with katy tur, who is inside the court overflow room this morning, legal analyst and former assistant d.a. catherine christian, another msnbc legal analyst, former prosecutor paul butler and former u.s. attorney paul charlton. katy, to you.

three notes in total. what are the key portions the jurors wanted to hear for a second time? did donald trump react at all? >> reporter: donald trump didn't react at all to get that over with. he sat there, slumped low in his chair. his eyes were closed for much of the reading of the testimony. he wasn't sleeping. he would open them up, readjust his tie. but he acted as he acted throughout the trial. leaning back and shutting his eyes. the jury wanted to hear the jury instructions over again, a portion. they wanted to hear four key points of testimony. it was testimony regarding michael cohen and david pecker, a phone call that david pecker had about karen mcdougal with michael cohen where pecker said he would tear up the rights. michael cohen said the boss will be angry.

pecker is asked, who did you assume the boss to be? the boss was donald trump. a phone call between donald trump and david pecker regarding pay. then essentially, most essentially i think, a key meeting at trump tower. the 2015 meeting regarding this scheme, how it came into being. david pecker's testimony as well as michael cohen's testimony. the point i found so potentially significant and important was the ways in which michael cohen's testimony and david pecker's testimony lined up almost exactly, almost in the same exact language. i will read a little from it. pecker says, they called me into trump tower to ask me how i could help with the campaign, key point campaign. in cohen's testimony, we called pecker in to ask how he could help with the campaign.

again campaign. pecker says, i said i would be the eyes and ears for the campaign. i would block negative stories. i would let them know about negative stories as they came up. michael cohen testifies, pecker said he would be the eyes for the campaign. pecker says, donald trump told me michael cohen would be the point person. michael cohen says, i was the point person. this is all the ways where pikal cohen's testimony does not stand alone. we saw the defense try to poke hole in cohen's credibility. the prosecution tried to buffett cohen's testimony with the testimony of others. here are instances where they line up almost exactly. the jurors wanted to hear about that. they didn't want to hear about documents. they wanted to hear about how this scheme, as the prosecution

calls it, came up. that's what i felt was the most important aspect of the four questions we got from the jury. >> the fact as katy is pointing out, the fact they wanted to zoom in or zone in on that key part of the testimony, the alleged conspiracy, the moments in trump tower when donald trump was involved and also separately on michael cohen's testimony, a segment of his testimony where he talked about talking to pecker at a subsequent meeting and that he would always brief trump on it, that trump was always part of it. that's the key issue. we don't know whether they are doing that because there are some people on the jury who are not persuaded and want to see it in and they're having an argument inside. you don't know why they're asking for it.

they are focusing on the alleged conspiracy, the heart of the case. >> you don't want to be cocky when you are a prosecutor. i would always be happy if this was the reading. the lead prosecutor in his summation told them that the conspiracy to promote the election by unlawful means was hatched at that august 2015 meeting. they want testimony about that. what's good about these -- the testimony from pecker and cohen, you talk about a phone call. donald trump called pecker and asked him for help. it wasn't pecker calling trump or cohen calling pecker. it puts trump at the heart, the lead of the conspiracy, not this passive person with michael cohen in charge going rogue. again, it could be just three jurors who wanted to hear this. but if i'm the prosecutor, i'm happy they are focusing on that. i'm also happy they wanted the law read back, even though it

was a lot to read back. i'm hoping they are applying the law and the facts in a really key -- to key in. >> paul charlton, weigh in in terms of the complexity of the case. they have a choice of what the underlying alleged crime could be. that's sort of a dealer's choice. but the fact that they seem to be focused on the heart of the case. what is that telling you as a former prosecutor? >> like katherine, andrea, i try to be humble about these things, cautious how you read these things. it's hard to assign with any real degree of certainty what this means exactly. i would take some comfort in the fact that they are focusing on this aspect of the conspiracy. at the same time, you will

recall part of the testimony that was read back dealt with the cross-examination of mr. pecker in which pecker had a difficult time assigning certain dates. this is only human, the defense will grasp on those aspects of the reading that they like. these questions that the jurors are asking, they are important. they give some tell. there may be other questions that will be clearer, that will show with greater degree of certainty exactly where the jury is. for example, one that i have seen in my experience before, when the jury asks the judge, how long do we have to deliberate if we cannot come to a unanimous verdict? that's clearly a tell that the jurors may be locked. they may not have a unanimous verdict for guilty or innocence. that would be certainly a good tell for the trump team. on the other hand, you may get a question from the jurors that asks for a reading of testimony, as they have done here, but for

robert costello. you recall that might not have been a smart move by the defense to call that witness. they wanted him to impeach mr. cohen. instead, they supported the prosecution case. there may be other questions down the road that will give us clearer insight into where the jury is. >> paul butler, were you surprised they wanted so much of the judge as instructions read back to them? >> not at all. i'm a law professor and a former federal prosecutor. if i heard those instructions for all those hours orally, i wouldn't understand them either. i was on a commission sponsored by the american bar association that recommended best practices for juries. one of those recommendations was that juries should be allowed to take the instructions into the deliberation room with them, especially in a complicated case like this. i wasn't surprised that just

hearing them once, they needed to hear them again. it shows that they are approaching their work with diligence. >> katy, when you were watching all of this from inside the overflow room, what was donald trump looking like? what was the effect of the people -- his supporters and his attorneys? >> let me give you a little detail. it's new york city. you will hear sirens. you are looking at giant monitors. a couple of them in the room that show donald trump. it shows the prosecution sitting at a table. the judge. it does not show the jury. did show s it shows a little bit of the group in the courtroom. it will show in this case the people who were playing witness and questioner up on the witness

box. in order to get a really good picture of donald trump when you are in this overflow room, you have to bring binoculars. i'm two rows back from the barrier where the monitor is. i'm using a pair of binoculars to get a better sense of what donald trump is doing. he was stone-faced, borderline scowl. he has been sitting the same way. most of the time he has been sitting straight forward, even though slumped in his chair. today he was angled toward the jury. again, his eyes were closed most of the time. he wasn't sleeping. i saw him wake up or open his eyes a few times to adjust himself or to look at papers or as the conversation was changing. he is definitely still alert, even though his eyes are closed.

the rows behind him are populated with supporters. today, it was just a few secret service agents, eric trump and a couple of others. it wasn't as big of a group as it has been in the past that have come there to support the president. when they were reading back jury instructions, the part that perked me up is the definition of reasonable doubt. we know the standard here is you have to prove that donald trump is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. i just think it's interesting to read this portion once again for the audience. a reasonable doubt is an honest doubt of the defendant's guilt for which a reason exists based upon the nature and quality of the evidence. as to an actual doubt, not an imaginary doubt. it's a doubt that a reasonable person acting in a matter of this importance would be likely to entertain because of the evidence that was presented or because of a lack of convincing evidence. proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt is proof that leaves you so firmly convinced

of the defendant's guilty that you have no reasonable doubt of the existence of any element of the crime or the defendant's identity as the person who committed the crime. it's a lot of semantics there. that's the burden that the jury has, trying to figure out whether they believe the prosecution has presented them with enough to convince them that donald trump played a role in all this, knowingly played a role in all of this, with the intent to cover something up, to commit a crime. >> catherine, let's talk about what the jury has to be unanimous on. they don't have to be unanimous on the underlying alleged crime, if they decide there's an alleged crime. they have to be unanimous on whether or not there is a crime. >> they have to -- the way the jury instructions read, they

must find -- if it's guilt, they must find the people have proven beyond a reasonable doubt, one, that donald trump caused the false entries, two, he did it with the intend to defraud, three, that intent to defraud included an intent to commit or conceal another crime, another crime, the other crime, the people have said, is new york election law violation conspiracy to promote an election by unlawful means. they must, all 12 of them, have to find him, if they are saying guilty, on that, all those four. but they don't have to be unanimous the unlawful means. in this case, the unlawful means are federal campaign finance violation, tax violation or falsification of business records. it could be one, two, three, all three. everything else they have to -- there's been a lot of misinformation. if the judge said, you don't have to be unanimous about falsifying business records, they would have went to the

appellate division and asked for an article 78. no. they have to, all 12, either convict or if they say not guilty, be unanimous up until what are the unlawful means. >> it's intent. it doesn't have to happen? >> he did have to commit the crime. he had to intend to commit it or conceal it. >> that's why catherine is here and all of our other great lawyers. katy, thanks so much. i don't know if you can stay longer down there. see you later at 3:00. i guess i do have a little more time you can stay until after the lunch break. thanks so much. and catherine, paul, paul, stay close. we will check back with you throughout the hour as we review this. inside trump world, how the former president's inner circle plans to push his campaign forward as the jury is deliberating and after they

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voters, say it will not make a difference. 17% said they would be less likely to support donald trump. a not guilty verdict would make no difference to an overwhelming 76%. 14% said they would be more likely to vote for mr. trump. we could have a hung jury. vaughn hillyard joins us from outside the courthouse. also joining us, phil rucker. vaughn, let's go through where this poll came from. i think it's an npr poll. what is the latest from inside the court from your conversations with trump people who are in there and coming out or have come out and before they went in? your reaction to this poll, their reaction to the poll, as someone who speaks to them all the time? >> reporter: right. it's a campaign operation that's been with him here. jason miller, a senior advisor, alina haba because he spent so

much time focused on the legal work here. he has had these campaign hands beside him. when you look at the polling numbers, look, i don't think that anybody is ignorant or dismissive of the impact that these trials have. the trump team has consistently promoted the idea it only helps him because they make the argument he is being politically persecuted. that's why they have messaged around the events here. there's a fund-raising email that went out last night saying, i will go to jail tomorrow, from donald trump's campaign here. they are not running away from it. when you look at the polling numbers here, every percentage counts. the idea is that back in the 2016 election, it was just about 108,000 votes in three battleground states that made the difference between hillary clinton being president and donald trump. it was about 42,000 votes in three battleground states that separated donald trump from staying in the white house

compared to joe biden getting in. even if it's just 10% of individuals saying that the impact of the jury's decision will impact their vote, i think that it's not worth completely dismissing. i want to, if i could, real fast for you, read one truth social post from donald trump since the jury went back into deliberation and he went into the holding room. he says, i did nothing wrong. in fact, i did everything right. donald trump's focus is on this. if he was not concerned about the ramifications of whatever the jury's decision is, he would not be paying attention to it or giving it the time of day. on his social media account, he is consistently posting about it. while he may not be able to win over the actual justice system here inside of the courtroom, he is going to try to win over the court of the public opinion coming out of the trial. >> that's for sure. he has got, we think, a big campaign schedule based on when

we think the deliberations might be over. we never know for sure. they are only on their second day. phil rucker, let's talk about the first debate. it's scheduled for next month. there's a lot of time that is spent in prep. he is stuck in the courtroom or the courthouse. chris christie has some new advice for president biden. we know chris christie tried everything to get a primary debate and could not get donald trump to agree to any primary debate. he hasn't debated this season. he says, let trump speak. if you let him speak, this is chris christie, he will hang himself. what would the trump campaign do with that? that's chris christie's advice, from the sideline, obviously. someone who didn't get past new hampshire. >> andrea, even though there's been this clear split between christie and trump respect his

skills as a debater. it's why he played an integral role four years ago in preparing trump for the debates. the advice christie gave, going directly against what he wants to do. it would require patient and restraint to hang back and let biden speak fully. i would be surprised if that's how trump ends up performing. it's not the performance we have seen from him in previous debates. it seems like pretty sound advice. i'm sure it's something that the trump team is going to take into consideration. >> i believe what chris christie's advice was to let trump speak. >> his advice to biden to let trump speak? that, too. that's actually something that

biden did in the 2020 debates. he made his points to trump in making sure voters saw that biden thought that trump was unfit to continue on as president. there were lengthy answers if those debates where trump talked in circles and had difficulty clarifying some of the points that he was trying to make in that debate that may have ended up hurting him with voters who were watching. >> briefly, phil, i know this is one poll, but it's saying that it doesn't matter whether he is convicted or not. we have seen other polls that say that if he is convicted, if he is a convicted felon running for president of the united states, that it would make a difference to people. it's too soon to tell, especially with the jury still deliberating. we don't know how this is going to play out. >> yeah. we have to see what the verdict is. as soon as that's delivered, i think that will be sort of a sobering moment for people paying attention to understand the final outcome here of this

trial. the poll very much mirrors the anecdotal reporting my colleague had. she went to a swing county in michigan a few days ago. she interviewed voters there. they aren't paying attention to the daily developments out of the trial. most of them said that the outcome of the trial would not influence the way they think about trump as a candidate for president. that kind of comports with our understanding. people have firm views about trump. the group of american voters in the middle who could be persuaded is relatively small. we see that in poll after poll. a big verdict here may not necessarily sway that many people just because folks' views are so hardened. >> phil rucker, thank you. vaughn, stay close. i know you are right there at the courthouse. we will come back to you. thanks very much to both of you.

the strategy session next. how president biden and his team are going to deal with whatever happens here in the court in terms of the verdict. stay with us. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. creen is still on the clock. vital sun protection goes six layers deep blocking 97% of burning uv rays. it's light, but it's working hard. unlike me. neutrogena ultra sheer sunscreen.

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finalizing their plans on how they will react to the decision, whatever it is, and ramping up their attacks against donald trump in key swing states. in philadelphia wednesday, with the vice president. >> trump tells you he is the greatest president -- i love this one. the greatest president for black people in the history of america, including more than lincoln. i mean, can you fathom that? like i said, i think he injected too much of that bleach. i think it affected his brain. >> a very different tone and a very different experience from the president today. he is grieving. today is the day of mourning for the president. you saw that earlier going to the church and to the grave of his son beau.

this is the ninth anniversary of his death from brain cancer. hunter's criminal trial monday on gun charges. monica, this is a difficult time. he is grieving his son beau and the confluence of events with hunter's trial on monday. some think we will hear from the president. how are they going to handle this trial? >> reporter: it's a somber anniversary for the president. it always is. he always chooses to be with his family, including with hunter biden today in delaware to mark that date. of course, it does coincide with really this collision of the legal challenges for hunter biden and this very political and very personal family struggle that has become a larger topic of conversation as we are, of course, in the middle of this political race for re-election. the collision of all of those

things is something that does weigh heavily on the president. it has certainly taken an emotional toll on him. we know he is very close with hunter. he is constantly in contact with him. he will certainly be monitoring developments from this trial. jury selection is set to begin on monday. the white house and the biden campaign, for their part, are trying to take a strategy here that it's low key. they don't plan to have a rapid response. hunter is a private citizen and has his own team to defend him and respond in real time. the question that has been raised here is that if president biden is invoked, as he could be, because there could be certain communications between father and son that are revealed here, if they feel strongly enough that they need to react to something that does involve the president, then it's possible that you could see the white house do that. but they're going to decide that on a case-by-case basis.

they think voters who evaluated this four years ago as a really complicated family issue of hunter biden who, of course, has struggled with addiction and is trying to rebuild his life, that voters saw that for what it was and they still supported joe biden. they are trying to make that same bet this time around, that there will be empathy for this complex family dynamic and personal struggle. >> at the same time, of course, anticipating also, they have a september -- it's been delayed to september, the september trial with a lot of really very troubling and embarrassing tempo -- testimony potentially. we know that they intend to call hunter biden's ex-wife. they will call beau biden's wife, who had a relationship after he died with hunter biden. and a third woman as well.

that's september when they are going into a debate and right before the election. >> reporter: yeah. when early voting could get underway in key places. that's something that they have acknowledged. they are bracing for that. there's an anxiety how that will stretch into the summer. it will take place in los angeles in september. the idea here is that there's the split screen that's completely different between hunter biden, a private citizen, whose father is running for re-election and donald trump, the republican nominee, who is also, of course, facing off with the president for the race in november, but at the same time that we know that essentially, the former president, after this trial, likely isn't going to be facing any of the other legal

trials before november's election. you will have the president's son facing his own criminal trials and having to deal with that far deeper into the season. you do point out that debate that's in september, of course, we also have the debate that's coming up at the end of june, which could be coming on the heels of whatever the conclusion is of hunter biden's first criminal trial here in delaware. >> the conclusion of donald trump's trial as well. there are signs they have begun to think about debate prep as well. >> reporter: absolutely. the president has such a jam-packed month when you think about this. everything that's going to happen while hunter biden's trial starts. the president is heading overseas. he will go to france. he will be there as least for a portion of this first week of the trial, which we expect will likely go two weeks. then the president is also scheduled to go to the g7 in italy, deeper into june. he could be traveling while there are consequential moments in these court proceedings.

he will be following it. then when he gets back from that, certainly, they will be knee deep in debate prep for the first general election matchup at the end of june. >> a lot of travel. thank you for all your great reporting from the white house. next, back to the courthouse in new york. a new ask from former president trump. we will tell you what that's all about coming up. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports." stay with us. it's msnbc. with liberty mutual! (inaudible sounds) (elevator doors opening) wait, there's an elevator? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, ♪ ♪ liberty. ♪ we're still going for that nice catch. we're still going for that perfect pizza. and with higher stroke risk from afib not caused by a heart valve problem,... ...we're going for a better treatment than warfarin. eliquis. eliquis reduces stroke risk. and has less major bleeding. over 97% of eliquis patients did not experience a stroke.

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let's go back to the new york city courthouse where juror s continue to deliberate. the 34 felony counts against former president donald trump in his hush money and election interference trial. back with us, vaughn hillyard outside the courthouse, and former manhattan assistant district attorney catherine christian, former federal prosecutor paul butler and former u.s. attorney paul charlton. vaughn, donald trump is apparently -- he asked and received a television in his waiting room inside the courthouse. surprising in the fact he didn't have one yesterday. what do we know about the conditions of the room in which he is staying? >> reporter: right. this is a lot of time. people have hulu on their phones now. but if you are in a long -- it's not bad to have the chance to watch television.

that's what donald trump has done here. an hour and 20 minutes ago, he left the courtroom after having some testimony reread to the jury. while the jury is deliberating, he is inside that hold room now with the television. it's not clear per laura jarrett, reporting about this, exactly what channel it is on. it's not clear if it's just broadcast stations on the tv and whether he is -- essentially has the choice between which soaps or whether he has expanded channel access to fox news and news max. he is looking at a big afternoon ahead of free time. you are looking at -- don junior posted a video on his tiktok in which you can see this room that they are sitting in. in this video, you can see on the table a bag of chips, some milk duds. don junior is talking about them formulating mean tweets to put

out into the world. we have seen donald trump do posts on truth social. he is required to be in there during the deliberations. it's a question at this point, how many hours is he spending in that room? what is he going to be doing with his time while in there? >> catherine, something we were discussing earlier. there have been false reports -- this is ryan reilly's reporting. false reports on social media and on other platforms, very right wing platforms, inaccurately reporting that the verdict does not have to be unanimous. you just went over this at the top of the show. it has to be unanimous. >> it has to be unanimous. >> these have led to horrible assassination threats against the judge. we don't want to spread it further. people on x -- it's not being monitored it's supposed to be.

people are talking about things that can happen to judges and that people can be -- a judge and prosecutor and funeral directors stand by. there are really hideous things being circulated because of people misinterpreting the judge's instructions. this was a nuanced, very complex instruction. that's why the jury asked for it to be read back in part. >> if people would -- i'm not trying to insult them. but if you use common sense, if a judge in a criminal trial were to say, you know what, members of the jury, you don't have to be unanimous about whether the defendant is guilty, that immediately -- the lawyers would be running to an appellate court and say the judge lost their mind. yes, the jurors have to be unanimous about whether or not

donald trump falsified business records if they find him guilty. all 12 have to say yes to each of the elements. >> paul charlton, let me read to you from the instructions. the judge instructed the jury on wednesday, quote, they must conclude unanimously that a defendant conspired to promote or prevent the election of any person to a public office by unlawful means, adding, they need not be unanimous as to what those unlawful means were. that means he had to agree unanimously trump committed in a crime with the intent to commit one or more crimes. they can choose from three options about what the other crimes were. violation of the federal election campaign act, falsification of other business records or tax laws. those unlawful means are not charges and would not result in separate convictions. jurors do not have to

unanimously agree on that. that's what catherine was discussing. it's complex but it should not be deliberately misinterpreted or stupidly misinterpreted by anchors on television networks. >> it's unfortunate, because this aspect of our criminal justice system is one of the sterling components. it's what make ours criminal justice system in the world. we have 12 citizens who are going to review this case. they are instructed to review the case. that instruction that katy read earlier, proof beyond a reasonable doubt to a unanimous verdict. that's required in the united states constitution. lawyers would be running to the courts of appeals if there was any kind of different interpretation allowed. every time people use the word,

for example, law -- they will follow the law. they will look at the facts. they are there to do what's right. we want do what's fair and right. that's what makes this criminal justice system so wonderful. it's inappropriate and wrong to suggest otherwise. these threats of violence come from people using words like law fair. >> donald trump from in the courthouse thursday morning is making social media posts about the jury instructions. quoting a fox news commentator who called the trump prosecution an alice this wonderland case. that's come on thursday morning on social media from the defendant, donald trump.

vaughn, catherine, paul, paul, thanks to all of you. supreme showdown next. the high court considers whether former president trump is immune from prosecution, justice alito brushing off red flags over his ability to be impartial and demands he recuse himself. you are watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc.

jury deliberations in the trump hush money trial are nearing the six-hour mark between yesterday and today, and the supreme court still considering whether donald trump should even have complete immunity from any criminal prosecution such as his current trial. justice samuel alito has flatly rejected congressional calls for both houses, that he recuse himself from that case and the january 6th case, because of flags associated with support for donald trump seen flying over his homes.

in letters to house and senate critics, the justice is blaming his wife for a second flag. he previously blamed his wife for an upside down stars and stripes at his washington area residence. that's a flag associated with rebellion against the u.s. alito writes, quote, my wife's reasons for flying the flag at his principal home are not relevant and the letters say my wife is fond of flying flags. i am not about the flag at his home at his jersey shore, he's saying that, you know, that this is not something he's fond of. joining us now nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian, also with us "washington post" associate editor ruth marcus, a lawyer as well as a journalist. ken, first to you, justice alito basically says his wife is a private citizen. democratic lawmakers are largely powerless in these calls to recuse himself. >> yeah, that's right, andrea, because the supreme court makes its own rules, and it's up to

each justice to decide whether the recusal standard applies, and the standard is whether a justice's impartiality might reasonably be questioned. alito has decided unilaterally his cannot in this matter, and no one, not even the other justices can force him to disqualify himself. there is legislation pending in congress, but that bill is stalled in the republican-led house, and even if it passed, it would face a challenge on separation of powers grounds, and guess who would end up deciding that, the supreme court. congressman jamie raskin is urging the attorney general to petition the other justices to require alito and clarence thomas to recuse themselves from these cases. that seems unlikely to happen, and even if it did, the justices almost certainly would politely decline, andrea. >> and ruth, as a lawyer and a journalist, you wrote this column in "the washington post" today taking apart alito's response to democrats. you wrote alito wrapped himself

in an unconvincing blend of faux feminism and free speech with an alito-esque helping of victim hood. how do you really feel about that? >> kind of like that. i wrote it as a lawyer, as a journalist, and also as a spouse. andrea, you and i have both -- you more than i -- navigated the complexities not just of marriages but of washington marriages where, yes, just because you have a right to do something, doesn't mean it's wise for you to do it if it would reflect adversely on your spouse. here we have simultaneously justice alito proclaiming his wife's right to do what she wants but also hanging her out to dry in a way that i cannot recall having seen in all my years in washington journalism. he's saying the most extraordinary one is where he says i asked her to take it down, and she refused and

because we own the house jointly, i had no other recourse. how about saying, honey, this is really a problem. it's making me look bad. take down the darn flag, but apparently the alito marriage is different and it went on for four days. >> in the clarence thomas, you have the right to do anything politically that you want, but do you really want to be, you know, part of an effort to overturn an election when i'm going to have to rule -- when i, in fact, am ruling on election challenges right now? >> precisely. it's terrible judgment. it's terrible judgment on the part of the spouses, and it's terrible judgment on the part of the principles. and one of the things that was extremely revealing is justice alito said when the upside down flag -- i don't really quite know how you would miss that on the flag pole in your yard, when the upside down flag was brought

to his attention, he immediately asked that it be taken down. well, if he immediately asked that it be taken down, seems to me that's an admission that he understood it was improper. so if he understood that it was improper, why are the rest of us who are suggesting now that it was improper for that to be flying, why are we somehow being so unfair to him and mrs. alito? >> we'll have to leave it there, and we still don't know about that immunity decision and the term is almost over. ken dilanian, ruth marcus, yeah. thank you, thank you both. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." remember, follow the show on social media @mitchellreports, and you can rewatch the best of our show anytime you want on youtube. just go to msnbc.com/andrea. "chris jansing reports" starts after a short break with more coverage of the jury deliberations in the trump hush money trial. he trump hush money trial. my restaurants, my tattoo shop... and i also have a non-profit. but no matter what business i'm in...

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