examination and i think that is what happened. i think everyone was scratching their heads, saying where is he going with this? it is all over the place. the timeline is off. the blows are not landing, as everyone says. then there was this moment where they acted like it was an ambush. it was a surprise in the sense that he had not seen those text messages in eight years, but it was not more than that. i don't want to say that he rebounded, because i don't think he faltered. >> michael, let me ask you. this is about this trial and your experience with donald trump. we have seen him have some big falls in life. we have seen him declare bankruptcy a whole bunch of times. we have seen him involved in humiliating scandals of various kinds, but when it came to actually being knocked flat, it has been twice. one is losing the 2020

election. the way he responded to that is by creating an alternate universe in which he did not lose the election and the country is paying the price. >> three times. >> three times? >> losing in 2020, the new york attorney general case and now the 34 counts. >> the attorney general case with the massive penalty. you are right to point it out with the devastating nature of the blow in that case. hundreds of millions of dollars that he owes and now in this criminal case. he does not have the option to do it he did with losing the 2020 election. he does not have the option to say that didn't really happen. let's have an alternate universe in which the penalty did not happen, the liability did not happen and the criminal convictions did not happen. from your sense of how he moves through the world and deals with humiliation and failure, what do you think he has left to do that he can do in response to this that we should

be prepared for? >> is going to blame everybody other than himself. it is judge merchan is corrupt. you know, michael cohen is a liar, a felon, erratic and everything else that he has been calling me for over six years. he will blame everybody else other than himself. he does not understand the concept of accountability. somewhere along the line i guess his parents did not teach them that there are consequences for actions. >> on the consequences question that struck me. i was in the courtroom one of the days you were testifying and there was this line of people coming in to support donald trump and clearly auditioning to be vice president. >> or something. >> or something. they want to be what you were at some point in your life. yes boss, donald trump.

you are up there being like, this is how it worked out for me. they are watching you as you are like, i did solitary and my license was taken away. they are sitting there like i want to be that. you're talking about 51 days in solitary. jeff sessions no longer has a job as attorney general. rudy giuliani is going to be disbarred. all of these people that were loyal to him, they end up getting run through the machine. they get ground to dust, but not him. what does it take to get through that simple message of self-preservation? not an ethical commitment, but like you are next, dude? how do you possibly communicate that effectively to the people sitting and auditioning to be a person that answers day >> i testified before the house

oversight committee and it was live. i looked at mark meadows and said i know what you are doing. i know the playbook you are trying to run, because i wrote it. look what happened to me. in a few weeks i'm going to prison. i strongly suggest that you think before you keep acting the way that you are. he didn't listen and now look what happened. mark meadows. jenna ellis. you have rudy. everybody. anybody that goes into his orbit loses everything. so i would turn around and say to him, this isn't the job that you want. look what happened to me. look at the arc of my life. i retired at 39. i'm not a rags to riches story thanks to donald. i was a riches to rags story thanks to donald. you asked a great question, what's it going to take?

51 days of solitary confinement as well as having the president of the united states weaponize the department of justice by using a complicit attorney general to violate constitutional rights. to create a counterfeit document, a fraudulent document , demand that you sign it and if you don't they take the fraudulent document and remand you back to prison after putting you in a freezer for a few hours and ultimately shipping you for more solitary confinement. that's what it is going to take. >> and i ask one more question, michael, and this is not about you exclusively. i did listen to your conversation with stormy daniels and she hasn't done a lot of talking outside of court, but she was treated the same way you were on the stand when she took the stand. you mentioned three times donald trump has been knocked down. i would mention a fourth, e. jean carroll who also got a very large verdict against

donald trump. so he has not been lucky in his dealings with strong women who have been willing to fight back. >> i am a guy. >> i know, but i want to ask about her for a moment. what did you make about her willingness to step forward and deal with the same thing that you did? as you said you were humiliated. they attempted to humiliate you on the stand. they also did that to her. as someone who interviewed her on a journalistic side for the podcast and went through that even before you hit the stand, what you make of her role in this case? >> she is unflappable. people discounter because of her profession. it bothered me a lot. what they were trying to do was discredit her in the eyes of the jury. in fact once again i think it was a very poor decision by todd blanche or susan necheles or they had, because you

cannot have a guy saying that, but they would go out and say the same things. it was a poor decision to go after her. people don't know unless you have read her books, she is actually wickedly smart. i think she graduated valedictorian of her high school class. she is much smarter than they are. whether you like her profession or you don't, i am not sure why it is anybody's business, but she is not somebody that is easily pushed around and she demonstrated that. she was unflappable. she was rocksolid. she was going to speak her truth and she did. >> you weren't on the campaign, but they were focused on trying to win this election. was there any doubt among the people on donald trump's team that he had in fact had that sexual encounter, because they made that an issue in the case. they tried to deny it. >> and that again was something i am certain that donald trump dictated to the various

different attorneys. i want it this way, i want it that way. and why they listened, especially after you see what happened to someone like myself, why? >> do you think ivanka and melania -- >> that is a great question. you know it is funny because katie phang posted something about how don junior must have lost rock paper scissors and had to run in. they took tremendous offense. this is what they took offense to. ivanka never showed up. jared i don't think showed up and neither did melania. you have to ask yourself the question why. i can understand why melania didn't, to be honest with you. hush money case and the whole notion of donald having this

sexual relationship, not just with stormy daniels, but karen mcdougal as well. i am sure melania was trying to preserve her own sense of identity and maybe protect baron as well. >> if you want to treat that decision with the honor i think it deserves that a human level, you wouldn't invoke melania trump repeatedly, which they did, including blaming her for coming up with the locker room talk defense to access hollywood. >> right. >> you are getting wet/and i know i will make it -- you are getting wet/and i know i will make it worse. >> hi, i have a question about the actual last witness in the case. on the defense case, bob

costello, and we all got to read a series of emails, some of which you were on and some were happening behind your back. which i think the jury was led to believe and probably concluded that this was this huge effort that was undertaken by him, by rudy giuliani and by defendant trump to keep you from cooperating so you would not flip. i was wondering if you would take us back to that time as to what was it within you that you did not go with bob costello and really kind of end up breaking with trump world and seeing this was not the road being orchestrated for you. it was not where you wanted to be. >> it is a great question, andrew. from the very first meeting i had with him and citroen, all

they wanted me to do was sign a retainer agreement and all they were interested in doing, all bob costello was interested in doing, was promoting himself and his relationship with rudy giuliani. i never trusted rudy. i saw him try to manipulate the game when he was trying to get more involved in the trump sphere. every time that bob costello would mention rudy giuliani, you may remember there was a picture of his cell phone where he is trying to prove to me that he just spoke to rudy. i realized that what they are doing to me is what i have seen in the past and that was also when they did the same. i think it was paul manafort or steve bannon with interrogatories, when they were working with a lawyer in order

to ensure that donald's responses match that of either bannon or manafort, one of the two. you know when something sits wrong in your gut and you've got to follow your gut? always go with your first answer. you know when you start scratching it is usually the wrong answer. my initial impression was i wanted to keep him around so i could pick his brain when i was there, but what i was most concerned about was the fact that he was going to run back to rudy, who was going to use that information in order to ingratiate himself to donald. because i realized i was being set up. >> can i confirm it was rudy -- >> drunken giuliani. >> michael cohen and danya perry, thank you both for being here.

i know this was an unusual interview. >> i feel okay because i had my crackerjack lawyer next to me and i felt very protected. >> as you mentioned at the start, this starts a different part of your life now, putting this behind you. >> thank you. great to see you. >> thank you. we will be speaking with jamie raskin in a moment. i am interested in getting his reaction in terms of what happened today. a central part of trying to get accountability for trump's alleged crimes and also explaining them and constitutional law and the rule of law. jamie raskin is in a singular position. as michael and danya leave us, he has his own place in history. i described it earlier, shakespearean. >> i think what i loved about your conversation with him that we can sort of drink in is that

he is complicated and i think trump's legal team, the legal strategy -- the jury was able to see his peaks and valleys and experience his story. it is in part because of the work of his lawyer. i think it aided his credibility to say i loved parts of my time at trump world. because everyone told the same story. michael cohen told that i think 17th. the last witness in terms of telling the same story about the meeting and catch and kill. he comes in at the end and i think there was such a gap between the way that people in the media, the way the media in general covered michael cohen and the way he was introduced to the jury with all of his peaks and valleys. i think they didn't look away from the valleys. they didn't look away from the things he did wrong and danya

perry and the prosecutors prepared him to talk about the crimes committed on trump's behalf and at the end the jury was perfectly capable of assessing what he did wrong, who he did it for and then they were instructed by judge merchan to corroborated and you have to look back to this evidence and wonder if that is what they were trying to do. >> there is such a connection to the january 6 case in that everyone involved were trump people. none of these were people who went into this as his enemies. these are all people in the administration who are allies of trump, who wanted him to be president, wanted him to win and when they went before the january 6 committee the truth they had to tell -- david pecker was almost merciful to trump. >> as was hope hicks.

>> they still were trump people. >> there is a sort of tendency we have to say that history will judge things. we don't know because it really depends on who wins, it turns out. but i think about john dean a lot because john dean was the guy that turned on nixon and said, you know, he came clean. and he is remembered for that. that is john dean. that is what he is remembered for. he got up to a lot of funny business before that moment, which is way less remembered. >> there is a reason. because he was involved in all the crimes. >> that's right. he was deep in that stuff. he had a moment of conscience. he came forward and told the truth. he is remembered as a hero. doing the right thing when it mattered. i think there is something to take away their.

>> and michael cohen's testimony was subjected to a very high level of scrutiny. judge merchan said you need to keep in mind that michael cohen and all the ways he has been described here is an accomplice in the charged crime and therefore you may not accept his testimony. you may not accept his testimony except of it is corroborated. you can't take it alone, you cannot take it on his word. as michael explained to us everything was corroborated by other people. joining us now is congressman jamie raskin of maryland. the top democrat on the house oversight committee and the constitutional law explainer in chief to the public. he was the lead manager in donald trump's second impeachment trial, which was about trying to overthrow the government by force. it is an honor to have you here

tonight and all nights. thank you. >> thank you so much, rachel. >> let me ask you first of all if we have been talking about this in a way that is wrong or if you feel like the media reaction, the expository work we have all been trying to do, explaining what happened and its importance has been off- base, if there is a bit we have been getting wrong. >> no, i resonate very much with the conversation i was listening to. i take great pride in what happened because i feel that it is such a sweet vindication of the rule of law and the complicated parts of it that frustrate people because it slows things down. like the presumption of innocence. like the fact you need to get a unanimous verdict among 12 citizens randomly. like the fact that the defendant does not have to testify and can elect not to testify. like due process and the right to appeal, which undoubtedly donald trump as a convicted felon now will exercise in

order to exercise rights and he has every right to do that. i think we can feel proud that the system of justice and rule of law within democracy has survived and i also felt proud actually about being a politician because most politicians don't behave like donald trump. the first thing he ran for was president. most of us try to go out and get things done for our constituents and then we ask for vote. we don't do this as an exercise in celebrity and glamour. trump got involved in politics and is all about shaking down the president to make up lies and dirt about his opponent. or to keep the truth out of the

public opinion or to overthrow the election and conduct a coup against the peaceful transfer of power. most politicians don't behave like that and if you don't behave like that you might not be the richest person in the world and you might not, you know, get to own your own hotels and islands and so on, but you can serve people and the minute a politician no longer acts like a servant of the people, but master of the people, that is the time to eject, reject, impeach, convict, prosecute, get them out of the way because democracy is all about serving the people. those of us who obtain a public office are nothing but servants of the people. >> you have played key roles told trump accountable. the january 6 investigation. the second impeachment of trump, obviously.

there are a lot of people looking at the reaction from republicans tonight, looking at the trump instant efforts to fund raise off of this conviction tonight. looking at the convictions that trump's allies and independent observers have said this will somehow help him. how do you view that? do you share that perception and how do you factor that into the calculus as to how much work should be done to hold him accountable? especially when we don't have a real expectation for a prison sentence or keeping him from running again or anything else that might matter to him. >> i think you have to celebrate the jury system. when the country started a lot of juries were composed of people from a particular craft or profession. you literally had to know about

bricklaying to judge a bricklaying case. the whole community. it is the cross-section. that is one of the beautiful things we saw happen today. we brought impeachment charges for inciting insurrection. the house of representatives, 232-197. all of the democrats and 10 republicans, but still 197 people who saw the insurrection happen and saw exactly what trump did. then we got to the senate and again the evidence was overwhelming. we had a 57-43 vote, which was not enough. we were short of the two thirds requirement, but look what happened in the jury today. it was unanimous. 12 people without any political or partisan residence or implications. they were just citizens and they studied the facts.

they scrutinized the witnesses and they came back with a verdict that vindicated common sense. you've got to put your faith in the people. it does not mean it is failsafe. it doesn't always work, but the people have done their job, the jury did their job and that judge did an excellent job clarifying every step of the process. >> in terms of faith in people, there are nine people the country does not have a lot of faith in right now at the united states supreme court. we are awaiting their verdict on, among other things, their ruling on the case as to whether or not presidents are immune from prosecution. aside from the question of potential recusal of justices, which i know you have written about and been advocating on strongly, what are you expecting from the supreme court in terms of the immunity rolling and what should the public understand about the impact that might have on the verdict today and the other

pending cases against trump? >> well, the main thing we can expect from it is delay and postponement. you know, that is clearly the political logic that was operating when the supreme court did not simply summarily affirm a brilliant d.c. circuit court opinion. a unanimous, bipartisan decision which held of course the president is not above the law. of course the president cannot order out for assassinations and remain immune from prosecutions. so long as he is not impeached and convicted. something that has never happened in our history with the four impeachments. so they have slowed everything down and they will probably slice the baloney real fine and take up a bunch of unnecessary questions, rendering advisory opinions as they are not supposed to do. what if it were a crime that

was clearly outside of the president's duties? if it was inside the president's duties. on the line, near the line. they make it seem like a far more complex case it is in order to justify the postponement and delay, which is really the purpose of taking it out. they should have denied as they do in 99% of the cases. they should summarily affirm what the d.c. circuit had done in that comprehensive opinion. >> congressman jamie raskin, it is an honor to have you with us. thank you for the time period appreciated. we have much more special coverage ahead. i have to tell you, mary trump is going to be joining us soon for her first interview since her uncle donald trump was convicted by a jury of his peers. this is ongoing special coverage. unanimous, guilty on all counts verdict against former

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unusually long for anyone in public life, let alone anybody who is an elected official. trump's former campaign chairman was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison. rick gates was charged and convicted and sentenced to prison. roger stone was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison. michael flynn was charged and convicted. his campaign advisor was charged, convicted, sentenced to prison. his business cfo allen weisselberg was charged, convicted, and sent to prison. his business itself was found guilty of criminal tax fraud and real estate organizations can't go to prison, otherwise it might have. and of course trump's former personal lawyer, michael cohen, who we just spoke with. he was charged, convicted and sentenced for a criminal scheme that prosecutors describe as directed by trump, for which trump was the beneficiary.

cohen was then the star witness in the prosecution's case in which donald trump was convicted of all 34 counts. as of tonight, donald trump has joined that list. it sort of feels inevitable, looking back at it. until it happened tonight, no one could be sure. that said he seems to know it was coming. he seems to have known something. this headline in the new york times this week. trump leans into an outlaw image as his criminal trial concludes. the former president has increasingly aligned himself with defendants and people convicted of crimes. as we headed to this unanimous, all counts guilty verdict tonight, donald trump has recently, in fact, been bringing convicted and accused felons with him to campaign events including people accused of murder. he has even been bringing ex- cons and convicted felons with

him to stand behind him for his days in court at this criminal trial. this is a political strategy. a tough guy look he thinks will work for him and he also has to lean into it. you can't pretend not to be a criminal while you are a criminal defendant. why not run with it? this is who he is surrounding himself with and part of his messages pick me on the criminal side of the ledger. pick me and my criminal friends and we will take care of this legal system. convicted of 34 felonies. joining us now is donald trump's knees, mary trump. she is the author of a book about her uncle, called too much and never enough, how my family created the world's most dangerous man. also the host of the nerd avengers. i should tell you this is mary's first interview since the verdict today. it's nice to see you. thank you for being with us

tonight. we appreciate having you here. >> it's great to be with you. >> what was your reaction when you first heard the news? >> i was, as you can imagine, relieved, happy. it took a minute to sink in, but also as the counts when one through 34, guilty, guilty, guilty, et cetera, the weight of this moment really sunk in. it really hit me. this has so much meaning for all of us. i am incredibly proud of my city and my state. i am really relieved on behalf of the american people. this was such a long time coming and i know he has been found guilty of the charges that were presented to the jury. in some ways it feels like it is standing in for all of the crimes this man has gotten away

with his entire life. so there was something incredibly gratifying and moving about it and i have heard people say that we can celebrate the jury system. we can celebrate the jurors and the way the trial was handled. but it is a dark day in america. that someone in donald's position has been found guilty of these crimes. i respectfully disagree. a great day for america. i think it shows us that the system is holding and that even somebody like him who has, with impunity, gotten away with egregious crimes over the course of decades has finally at long last been held accountable. >> what impact do you think this will have on him personally? you understand his demeanor and history in a way that the rest

of us don't. the rest of us have only seen the public side of him. how do you think this will change him or land with him? how do you think he will respond? >> it is interesting. i heard him say that donald is someone who will never take responsibility and will always deflect and cast the blame. this is something that he learned at the knees of my grandfather, who talk to donald the same thing. never take responsibility for anything. we saw that during the disastrous four years during his administration. he never takes responsibility for everything and along with that and the fact that he operated with impunity for so long, i think it will take a while for this to sink in and i think we will see a similar dynamic to what happened after the 2020 election. there is a moment in private when he understood that he had lost. he will understand that he has

indeed been found guilty on 34 counts. i'm sorry for the smile, but it makes me feel good to smile, to say that out loud. that will hit him so deeply as it did four years ago that he, as i believe you said earlier, will have to create his alternate reality. unfortunately we see that this is not something that just impacts him. this is something that has drawn in millions, tens of millions of people and left all of us at risk. i think we need to expect the same thing here. he will do everything in his power to spin this so that it is, well, he will try to make it an advantage to him. he will also stop at nothing to change the subject. so i do not agree that we don't have to worry about violence here. we need to worry about his willingness and eagerness to use his power and his platform

to get other people to carry out his threats. we saw this yesterday when officer fenn owns mother was swatted shortly after he showed up to speak his mind outside of the courthouse yesterday. there is a lot going on, but we can never underestimate or overestimate, sorry, the extent to which donald will use any means at his disposal to deflect and get his way. >> mary, it is alex wagner. thanks for joining us tonight. we know from reports and witnessing ourselves that your uncle was resting his retinas, to be generous. during many points in this trial. when the verdict was read he was wise wide open. paying attention and largely expressionless. maybe it was because he was intently focused. you think he is afraid right

now? there is a very real possibility that he will serve prison time. it may not be this year, but given michael cohen for the same crime, i wonder if he is quietly very scared. >> he certainly should be and whether he expresses that consciously or not, i don't know. certainly at a deep level he is afraid, because alex this is a moment he has been dreading his entire life. donald has always known that he is nothing he claimed to be. not a tough guy, not an outlaw. he is somebody who is terrified of humiliation. he is somebody that understands in the language of my family, being a loser is absolutely the worst thing you can be. he cannot pretend otherwise and i think he also must sense that this is a very big domino that is falling here and we may see

or hopefully we will see a very swift unraveling of his support. i think we will see a lot of comments in the next few days from republicans who may not want to be associated with somebody who is a convicted felon running for the presidency. they're all reasons for donald to be afraid right now. chief among them, even though this is not something that can happen in reality, he understands and my family if you are a loser, that is something that will get you killed, metaphorically speaking of course. >> it is lawrence o'donnell and i wanted to follow up on that loser point. i've watched from the courtroom for so many days with michael cohen on the stand and others and your uncle was sitting there as a salesman as he always is. he is always trying to sell something.

he was not willing to say himself, not willing to get on the witness stand and testify. michael cohen did testify. he discovered that it didn't work. he spent all these weeks in the room trying to sell those people and it didn't work. unanimously they did not buy it and the same time when he heard those 34 guilty's, he had to realize they believed stormy daniels. they believed everything she said. everyone of those details about inside the hotel room. they believed michael cohen. they did not believe my side of the story that i was trying to sell and so he comes out the loser in that charm and the contest with that jury. i wonder what that does to him because that goes to the very

core of what he thinks his talent is, which is convincing people of things. >> lawrence, it is such an excellent point. we see and he has learned what happens in a situation in which he is not fully in control or he doesn't have other people controlling the environment to his benefit. and we saw this i think in part by his complete lack of understanding that he even needed to try. you know? if you want the jury on your side you don't want to fall asleep during people's testimony. you don't want to attack them. you're going to be attentive. you are not going to complain about conditions inside the courtroom, because he is not the only person who needed to be there, but the only person who is there because he didn't

have a choice, because he is the one who committed these crimes, we can now say. everybody else had to be there also because of what he had done. he just didn't understand what it means to cater to people in an environment he doesn't control. i think it was his lack of control that made it impossible for him to rise to the occasion and of course we know he was never going to testify. so he really needed to behave like a respectable, decent human being who was taking this seriously and not sort of skating on his hope that the jury would be so intimidated by him and his power and his position. it failed miserably and i think he is going to understand that. he will blame his lawyers. he will blame the judge. he will blame everybody on this tv program right now. he will blame everybody.

he won't take responsibility, but he will understand the limits to his own personal power and i think that is going to freak him out. >> mary, it is joy. thank you for being here tonight. if he has had a reckoning emotionally, even privately after a conviction, he will have another on july 11 when he is sentenced. four days later he will accept the nomination of the republican party. prepare us for what the propaganda field will feel like. how will he explain this and call upon his party to explain this to the crowd at the republican national convention? what should we expect to hear as an excuse for what happened, what had just happened four days earlier? >> joy, it is a great question and it is related to what we were talking about a minute ago.

he is going to feel completely unbalanced by any sense of having to operate within someone else's system, to the extent that he even bothered. but once we get to sentencing i think he will also realize that the other thing is he was not able to control and was not able to behave in the context of, the idea that he might be facing prison. the irony for him of course is that if he behaved like a normal human being throughout his trial, i think the risk of prison would have been fairly low. because of his egregious behavior, because he broke the gag order 11 times, because the judge had to make the ruling and because the judge deferred any significant punishment, i think the chances that he gets a

prison term have increased exponentially. he has to deal with that as well. whatever happens, though, the convention is going to make 2016 look like child's play and i think you said earlier the hideous chance of lock her up, the utter lawlessness and vindictiveness that was directed at the democratic candidate, hillary clinton, was like nothing we had ever seen before in this country. it is going to be so much worse. so much darker. and especially given the fact we have already seen what he has been doing. he and his minions and enablers in the republican party have been telling us the last few months exactly what they plan to do with this country if we are reckless enough to give them power again.

>> mary, hi, it is ari melber. we try not to speculate too much, but you can. do you have the view that donald trump based on what you know would be likely to fire his lawyers in this case soon? we have seen some already. if he gets legal counsel, to show contrition to authorize his lawyers to express that. is there any way the you think he could play that out for the day? >> i think he is constitutionally incapable of such a thing. one of the biggest clues to that end is the way his lawyers behaved in the courtroom clearly at his direction, even though it went against what they should've been doing to protect their client. i am not a lawyer and even i was able to identify serious

missteps his lawyers made because donald was directing them to say certain things or behave in certain ways. that is because he cannot face the truth about who he is or why he was there or what he is facing, so i don't think there will be any mitigating -- certainly no pretense, even pretense at contrition. and he is just going to put himself even more in jeopardy, whether or not he retains his counsel. i don't know. if i were them i would not want to continue working for him, but i can't imagine they are having a very good night. let's put it that way. >> mary trump, we are really glad you were able to be here with us tonight. glad to have you here on such an important moment in history. thanks. >> think you all, i appreciate it. >> now that trump has been

found guilty, one of the things we were talking about the end you are raising this in your conversation as well is the next step in the process, sentencing. the sentencing hearing will be at july 11 at 10:00 a.m. eastern. until then trump has bail conditions. his conditions have not changed. he is still out on his own recognizance without bail, so he is free to move about the country the way he wants to, but he was found guilty today on all 34 counts and each of those counts in terms of sentencing carries with it the possibility of four years in prison. judge merchan is likely if he does impose a prison sentence, he is likely to impose sentences concurrently. that means it would not be stacking up. it would mean trump would be serving each of his sentences simultaneously. not as 136 years of back-to- back sentences.

in terms of whether he will be incarcerated, and up behind bars in prison somewhere, that is unclear. it is not required by any means. judge merchan could impose a sentence of probation with no prison time. i would still mean trump would become the first former president to regularly report to a probation officer. it could mean that the bar to be jailed if he committed other crimes in the future could be lowered to the floor. him being on probation would mean the ability to jail trump. affectively instantly effectuated if he committed any other crimes. what a way to live as a presidential candidate. sorry. sorry. how trump sentence will manifest and restrain him one way or the other, all of that is likely far off. off. definitely put all of this past

the election. wing found guilty does not bar you from running for president. but was does trump's sentencing mean in terms of what actually happens before the election? practically speaking, means that trump will be back in a manhattan courtroom with the news of these 34 guilty verdicts back on the front pages across the country at his sentencing hearing on july 11th , four days after that, on july 15th, unless the republican party changes course, that will be the start of the republican national convention. that will nominate him for the presidency. joining us now is somebody who has direct experience with these matters, she is the former assistant district attorney in the manhattan district attorney's office. catherine christian. thanks for being with us on this let me ask if i've explained those asics of what comes next. the probationary report, the sentencing phase, and what we can likely expect from that phase is that all correct, as you understand it >> it is correct except you will probably see donald

trump's lawyers file a motion to set aside the verdict, which is allowed before sentencing. it is under the criminal procedure laws, 330 motion. so that could delay the sentence because they are going to file it and then, of course, the prosecution will have a chance to respond to it and then judge merchan will make a decision on that. so that often will delay the sentence. everybody else, the probation, probation doesn't mean he is io getting probation, they are just the ones tasked with doing the report for the sentencing, e for the judge to determine what is the appropriate sentencing. so except for that one little filing of the motion to set aside the verdict, it will go according to how it always is for regular defendants. >> and that filing of the motion to set aside the verdict, that is separate from and in addition to the oral motion that we heard in the court today after the jury t verdict, where todd blanche, on trump's behalf, asked for an acquittal. >> and it is unclear, because i

was literally in the subway when my phone blew up. he originally, you recall, mood for what is called a trial of order of dismissal. the judge reserved decision on that. so it is unclear edwhether the judge finally said denied. but that is also outstanding. but in addition, they can file that the verdict is in a motion to set aside the verdict. and then when that is denied, which it ultimately will be, and he is sentenced, then the appeal will be filed. >> in terms of the appeals process and the sentencing process, as you said, the sentencing will go ahead in anticipation of his filing the appeal. they won't delay the sentencing to follow, to come at the end of the appeals process? >> the sentencing comes before appeal. you can file the appeal until you have been sentenced and it is official, he is now sentenced, convicted felon of 34 counts. and then he files the notice ce for appeal and assuming his

lawyers, whoever is going to do the appeal response on time ando gets to filings and i believe the appellate division, which is called the appellate division for the apartment here, will decide that appeal wi probably by january or february of 2025. assuming that everything is done on time by the parties, the court is ready. that the parties have to file their briefs and do everything they are supposed to do on time. >> if he is elected president in the election in november and that appeal, as you said, would otherwise be expected maybe in january, by 2025, do you think that his election as president has an anticipated will affect in terms of how the appellate division will handle this matter? >> i don't think this at all, remember, this is state and er they will decide that either the jury was right and your conviction has been affirmed.

and then he will get a chance to try to appeal to the higher court. in new york, the highest court is called the court of appeals. so they are going to treat him like any other defendant who filed an appeal and files everything on time. >> is the appeals process, like the process that we just saw in judge merchan's courtroom, one that the has to be present? >> he has a right to but he does not have to be present. in fact, defendants usually aren't present at the appellate court when they are appeals are argued. they have a right to but he won't be there. >> one last specific question. on the probation department, they prepare a report, essentially, an internal report or the public facing? that is essentially meant to help the judge and the judges decision on the sentence. what can you tell us about that? >> it is filed and it is still kind of old school in the criminal term in manhattan.

it is filed with the court. it is called the investigation and sentencing period. and the sentencing report was filed both the defense will get it, the prosecution will get it, the court will get it and ultimately that court is in the file, the official court file. >> catherine christian, absolutely, absolutely essential to have you with us here tonight. thank you so much. much appreciated. four much more ahead, next hour as our coverage continues of the historic conviction of a former president donald trump, a unanimous jury verdict today, convicted on all 34 felony counts. we will be right back. right b. lakesha: childhood cancer is it's hard. but st. jude has gotten us through it. st. jude is hope for every child diagnosed with cancer because the research is being shared all over the world.

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