for those of you just joining us today for the first time in american history a former president of the united states has been criminally convicted in a court of law. just hours ago, a jury of 12 ordinary americans found donald trump guilty on all 34 felony counts he faced in the state of new york. those charges of falsifying business records stem from trump's cover-up of an alleged extramarital affair with adult film star stormy daniels and his effort to keep that information from the voters. the story first broke back in 2018 when "the wall street journal" dropped a bombshell report at the time too about the

hush money payment to daniels to prevent her from going public. now, it took years -- the justice system can work slowly at time, that's how sometimes it works, but it took years for prosecutors to bring a case forward so. long, in fact thargs it was dubbed a zombie case. that is until alvin bragg took the extraordinary step of indicting a former president. he was the first prosecutor to do so at the time. and just over six weeks ago, the trial began. now, that brings us to today when after nine and a half hours of deliberation across two days the jury delivered a verdict just after 5:00 p.m. according to reporters in the room, the mood at trump's table went from, quote, smiling to sour. trump crossed his arms over his chest after each of the 34 guilty counts were read aloud. donald trump sat quietly, brow furrowed, with his lips pursed downward. as each of the 12 jurors were polled, trump made a point of look at each one of them, craning his neck at times to

make sure he could see all of them. and as the jury filed out after the verdict, he scowled at each of them eas they passed. none of the juror, however, looked back at trump. after judge merchan announced trump's sentencing to be held at 10:00 a.m., july 1 #19, current presidential candidate donald trump walked out to the cameras and ranted about how this was a rigged trial. now, no matter what he say, i want to emphasize that is not what happened here, not what happened today, not what has happened over the last several weeks and months. this is our justice system at work, not because of the outcome, but because the former president was subjected to our legal system, just like anyone else. manhattan district attorney alvin bragg made that point just a few hours ago. >> while this defendant may be unlike any other in american history, we arrived at this trial and ultimately today at this verdict in the same manner as every other case that comes

through the courtroom doors. by following the facts and the law and doing so without fear or favor. >> in the same manner as every other case. there's a lot to digest about this historic day. some of you may have been digesting it with us over the last couple of hour, but we're going to discuss all of it over the next two hours, including what the sentencing of a former president may look like, the possibility of an appeal from the defense team, and how this all may impact the 2024 election. to help me break down and discuss everything that happened today, i'm joined by msnbc anchor stephanie ruhle who agreed to stick around after "the 11th hour" and many, many hours of television she's been on today, and three legal eagles who have been up for some version of 20 hours a day for weeks. and they're here, and i'm grateful for that. andrew weissmann, the former general counsel at the fbi and the cohost of the prosecuting trump podcast. i always am clicking refresh for

new ep esoedz. kristy green berg, the former deputy chief at the criminal division, and katie phang, host of the katie phang show here on msnbc. so i know we've all been talking about this for hour, but i think given it's such an historic day, it's important to reset and remind people what this is all about. i'm going to start with you, andrew, you've spent hours in the courtroom, you've prosecuted cases, talk to me about the legal system and what this day meant. >> so i was struck and trying to think about sort of what the historic nature is with sort of two images right after the verdict. and one was donald trump leaving the courtroom and basically denigrating everything about the process. his acolytes doing the same thing, the former law and order party of the republican party just doesn't exist anymore. he made it sound like he had no

ability to testify. it was a grievance fest. and he was dismisive of jurors, as if they didn't -- aren't the people. and so that's sort of rich, white, privileged person who hod a fair trial and an enormous amount of legal talent and help on the one hand, and you had alvin bragg in a completely understated speech where he thanked his team, he thanked the nypd. he was not gloating. it was not a victory lap. he was asked about how it felt and what he had to say about being personally attacked by the former president, and he said i have no comment. and he is the first black d.a.

in manhattan. and the contrast of those two people, i think, really to me spoke to where we are as a country and the difference between the best of america and the rule of law and treating people equally and also being dignified in manner and behavior was such a contrast to what was presented by donald trump. >> it was striking. to watch alvin bragg, i mean, he clearly seemed like he had a weight lifted off his shoulder,ly say that, but that was exactly the right tone, i think. and it was a dignified tone. and if you're him, you could have done something different. stephanie, you're one of the people who's been so dug into this, you covered this so closely, what struck you sitting in today and watching what happened? >> perhaps alvin bragg appeared to have a weight lifted off his shoulders because there was so much criticism going in, even in

the last few days. this is complicated. you're going to end up with a hung jury. you cannot expect, you know, 12 ordinary new yorkers to grasp all of this. but alas, they did. so after we heard the verdict, i wasn't thinking about alvin bragg or the defense. i wasn't thinking about the judge or donald trump of president biden. i was thinking about the jury. >> mm-hmm. >> no one wants to get called for jury duty, no one. it's like getting a chain letter in the mail. 12 ordinary new yorkers, 18 if you count the alternates, put their lives on hold, their jobs on hold, put themselves at serious risk and they may be at risk going forward and they sat in that courtroom for five weeks and took diligent notes, listened to an hour's worth of jury instructions and then went back with more detailed questions. and they turned around and they did something our lawmakers couldn't do. remember all of those republican who is didn't vote to impeach who were like let the doj do it, everyone who's punted, punted,

punted, these 12 ordinary new yorkers are extraordinary americans. >> it's such an important point. and they did their duty. you're right. nobody wants that letter in the mail. they ask follow-up questions, they couldn't have their phones. they were under a range of restrictions in the courtroom. i want to talk about michael cohen, because he has been such a significant player in all of this. he had a very long interview on msnbc earlier this afternoon. i want to play just a clip of that and talk a little bit about his role in how we ended up here today. >> were you surprised by the verdict? >> no. i was not. i've spoken -- i've been on so many of the shows on msnbc and i've told you all along that the facts speak for themselves. the documents speak for themselves. the facts are the facts, and at the end of the day, the facts are what prevailed here. >> so many things have struck me about michael. we've probably all interviewed him at some point in time. he's not exactly a wall flower.

he's a pretty aggressive guy in general. he was quite calm there. he seemed to be quite calm in the courtroom. i just want to start with you, katie. i mean, watching him, you've been in the courtroom every day, what the the role he played here? i mean, was it the role people expected him to play? was he a better witness than people expected? was it because they had a strategy that was everything leading up to him? what worked or didn't work about michael cohen? >> i think he came in with the expectation of being as much of a marquee witness as stormy daniels was. but i think ultimately because he did have such a calm demean enor where he was not rattled either during direct or cross examination, i think actually was so much more impactful than if you had seen maybe a more brash or maybe a louder version of michael cohen. listen, we all have an emotional range, and he would have been completely justified to be able to be angry about what he has gone through, but the one thing that michael cohen has said from day one about especially this case, he said i received a

subpoena, i'm going to go, but if asked would you go otherwise, he's like, no, because for michael cohen it was never really about this. even though, yes, he has a book named revenge and he does podcasts and he's done a lot of stuff about how it's impacted him to have been the fixer for donald trump, he's been very clear that he has cooperated with the investigation. there was an expectation by him, and i think it was a reasonable one, that perhaps his sentence would be mitigated because of the aid that he provided to numerous federal agencies as well as congress but ultimately that never played out. but he wasn't bitter about it. he just said, i am going to report accordingly, just exactly like the civil duty or the civic duty that the jurors did. they received a notice to appear, and that's what they did. so he did have an outsized role, and yet over time and after some contemplation, i think david pecker actually had the larger, more outsized role than michael cohen when it came to being able

to describe the conspiracy and to be the vehicle that the jury heard because david pecker went in without the issues of credibility that michael cohen did. >> he was the first witness, and it was so riveting. more riveting than i think i thought it was going to be. kristy, looking back, what was the pivotal moment, if there was one, for prosecution? >> it's hard to pick just one. i think there was such a buildup to michael cohen. you heard every witness before michael cohen who had interacted with him had something to say about him. mostly negative. you were hearing about how brash he was, how people didn't like him. and so you're kind of waiting for the moment when are we actually going to get to see him on the stand, like bring out the popcorn, because you hear how brash he is. what a personality he is. he's the fixer. and so when that moment came and he was so composed and he was so even tempered, it was -- it was, i think, maybe a bit of a surprise, but a pleasant one

because he was respecting the courtroom. he was representing the process. and in listening to his interview on msnbc earlier, he clearly took this process seriously. he did what he was supposed to do. he prepared with his lawyer, said i'm not going to quibble with the questions, i'm going to own what i've done. any time i have lied in the past, i'm going to say that that's what i did. and i'm going to tell the truth. and i think that that really came across. i think he presented very well. and look, i think on cross examination they had their opportunities to really try and drill down on the evidence and instead it was more reduced to name calling, which i don't really think was very effective. and then ultimately in the prosecutor's closing, i think they really addressed any issues that the jury may have had with michael cohen. yes, he's angry. yes, but wouldn't you be too if the person you did all this for had escaped justice and you were the one that went to prison for it. >> yeah. >> and just appealing to people, i think, on that personal level,

i think really it was effective for me listening to it, and i would imagine it was effective for them too. >> can we not forget, and i said it in the last hour, but it's the most stunning to me, donald trump has not said word one against david pecker. donald trump will go -- >> it is so interesting. >> donald trump will go after a crossing guard who looks at him cross eyed, okay? he has not said one single negative word about the prosecution's witness who possibly had the most damning things so say. and hope hicks, who every other time we have seen hope hicks in the public wry, she has been standing within six inches of donald trump tending to his every need. and there she was a witness on the stand, you know, sitting right across from him. that's just stunning to me. >> stephanie ruhle, we're going to let you go to bed, because you have to host a show tomorrow again, and we appreciate you staying up with us. we so appreciate you. andrew weissmann, kristy

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this generation is so dramatic! move with xfinity. the defense counsel we're talking about todd blanche did an interview on another cable news network this evening. i'll let you guess which one. and he said in that interview that every decision in the case, every substantive decision in the case is one that he made together with trump. >> makes sense. >> well, i was going to ask you, every you see trump's fingerprints on some of the decisions that you're describing here. >> absolutely. the term gloat, it's a donald trump fourth grade, playground, bullying type of tactic -- >> dbts you have an acronym for todd? >> i did. i was going to call him a sloat. the stupidest lawyer of all

time. you can listen to your client when you are trying to create a defense. a defense that is as important as this one is. the very first president of the united states, former president, to ever be charged with a crime, let alone convicted now on 34 counts. it was definitively the stupidest lawyer of all time. >> i mean, they were trying to make gloat happen the other day, now sloat, i guess we're trying to make that happen, who knows. but overall, andrew, it's basically trump's former lawyer criticizing his current lawyer about trump micromanaging the case. we may not have -- it doesn't look like we're going to have another criminal case, trial this year. there are some to come in the future. i mean, how much of a problem is that? >> the problem's the client, right? >> yeah. >> i mean, the lawyers no matter

what their caliber have a problem and, frankly, any good defense lawyer knows you have to have client control over how to do a case to stephanie's point that we were just talking about. you need to attack the witnesses that have hurt you in terms of, you know, you need to cross examine them and undermine their credibility. david pecker basically went in and out with basically minimal cross but incredibly damaging. hope hicks, same thing. jeff mcconney, same thing. stormy daniels, doesn't matter. it really doesn't matter whether you believe her or not. of minimal relevance. but that's the witness you're going to die on that hill. that is the client. you know, that is not a todd blanche, you know, you can fault him, but ultimately just remember in a criminal case, defendant is actually in control and then that's what a good defense lawyer has to deal with. so the case was not defended

well. it reminds me very much of the e. jean carroll case where it went from bad to worse. and that, clearly, i think was also donald trump so. he really only has himself to blame for this. >> you mentioned todd blanche, and rachel mentioned the interview todd blanche had done, so we're going to play a clip of that as well, because it kind of raises all sorts of questions itself. >> how involved was donald trump in his own defense? >> i mean, what do you think? i mean, very involved. he's a smart guy. he knows what he's doing. he jokingly said to us a lot sometimes he wanted to be the litigator. he wanted to be the one that was actually arguing because he's a smart guy and he knows what he's doing. >> i mean, kristy, i just, you all are lawyers, okay? i'm the only nonlawyer here, and he's just admitting that his client, who's -- who is a problematic client, is micromanaging the strategy in the case on television, but i just want to get your thoughts

on that. you were shaking your head as you were watching it. >> yeah, i mean, he's saying that donald trump knows what he's doing. based on what? let's look at his track record. he's a loser. he has had -- this is his first criminal trial, but we've seen civil trials. he lost the civil fraud trial. $464 million. then you have two defamation cases. he lost both of those. you know, not only defamation, one of them there was liability for sexual assault. i mean, he has -- just go through the litany. you know, the trump foundation, self-dealing, the gag order rulings. loss after loss after loss. i'll continue with it because it's after midnight. if there's a gloat, it's that he's the greatest loser of all time. >> gloat and sloat. >> i don't understand why todd blanche, who was before this a reputable lawyer, would be saying i'm taking cues from somebody who knows what he's doing who has continually shown that he does not. >> katie, i just want to turn to

what's ahead, right? >> sure. >> because of everything that we've just witnessed and seen here and the behavior, which i would expect is going to continue, we'll see, there's a sentencing, hearing coming up -- >> july 11th. >> july 11th, days before the republican convention, but put the politics aside, how does this all impact that? what should we expect of that? what are you watching for that? >> so the reason why it's set for july 11th is not because todd blanche complained to the judge that his client has other cases that he needs to tend to, which is a huge red flag for whom, for the probation officer that is going to sit down and prepare the presentence investigation report. for short we call it the psi, and in new york if you're convicted of a felony, the judge is required to order that to happen, and donald trump was convicted of 34 felonies. doesn't mean you get 34 psis, it just means you get one. but donald trump will sit down with a person who is a probation officer in the department of probation and parole. so i just want to let that sink

in for a second there. the 45th president of the united states will sit down with probation and parole. and he will be interview bade probation officer who will go into his background, family, education, childhood, this probation officer can speak to donald trump's friends, families, coworker, not quite sure if that applies because allen weisselberg is in rikers, so he can go there and speak to him, but this probation officer will explore the depth of the criminality of this man. he'll look at the fact that this guy has pending criminal cases in other jurisdiction, multiple jurisdictions, two of which are serious felonies, right, as well as the one in georgia that's a state court felony. and then the -- this probation officer will prepair a report. it's a writ report, required to be in writing. it will be provided to the judge, the prosecution, and the defense, and then on july 11th, each side will get up, and the prosecution will say -- and by the way, the probation officer will make a recommendation of

sentencing, jen, so that po will say i recommend x for donald trump, defendant trump. and the prosecution will say i agree or i want more, less. the defence will say i think he should get, i don't know, an ankle bracelet. he could be the probation president maybe if he ends up, so he could be that. in the end the judge will make the ultimate decision on what the sentence will be for donald trump. >> this is a big question, we don't have that much time before break, but the other question here is the appeals process or what that looks like. it's not -- all of it's not knowable, but give us a sense on the timeline when we learn something, how it's considered. >> it takes a while. and one rule of thumb to think about is we've seen this in the civil trial, the fraud case, where they somewhat expedited that, but that meant they'd hear it in september. to give you some sense, this should take a little while. again, if donald trump thinks he has a good appeal, maybe he'll

move to expedite it hoping that he gets some favorable ruling, because it's hard for it to get worse than it is right now. but that's -- that i think is going to be a long way away if the next big thing is going to be his sentencing and there is, to katie's point, there will be a lot of damaging information that is talked about. and the judge should be making findings about that information. >> lots more -- it's not over is kind of what everybody here is telling us. we're going to play much more of msnbc's exclusive conversation with michael cohen in the next hour, but coming up next, the speaker of the house is calling today a, quote, shameful day in american history. he's the second in line to the presidency, i'll just remind everyone, and a whole lot of other republicans have had a whole lot to say about donald trump's conviction. we'll sum it up for you coming up next, and congressman eric swalwell standing by. i have a feeling he's got a thing or two to get off his chest. he'll join me right after a quick break. he'll join me right after quick break. she is a little ray of sunshine.

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right around 5:10 p.m. eastern time today, donald trump was found guilty on all 34 charges in the new york hush money trial. by 5:12 p.m., republican house speaker mike johnson decided it was all a sham. he said, quote, today is a shameful day in american history. this is the speaker of the house, i just feel like i need to insert in here. democrats cheered as they

convicted the leader of the opposing party ornery dig louse charge, predicated on the testimony of a disbarred, convicted felon. this was a purely political exercise, not a legal one. trump vp hopeful senator marco rubio phoned into fox news an hour later comparing the trial and the conviction to authoritarianism, dictatorships and battles in the roman coliseum, and later in the evening, j.d. vance explained what he thinks republicans should do next. >> we have to be willing to fight back. we need to be subpoenaing judge merchan and his daughter. we need to understand what are the connections between big democratic money and this sham prosecution. did george soros ever talk to alvin bragg about using his power to go after donald trump? we need to get to the bottom of it. >> you know when george soros is introduced, something wild is happening. joining me now is eric swalwell of california, a member of the

house judiciary committee. i at mire, i think i can see some kid's art in the background, so thank you for joining us this evening. you know, overall i think -- and we'll discuss this as well -- most democrats have been pretty measured, i mean, acknowledging the solemnity of this day, the rule of law. i think this is the right approach to put my cards on the table. i noticed on twitter, x, you posted this verdict is not a win for any single person. it's a win for an idea. the idea that we all foal low the same rules. the rule of law won today. my question is, i think that's exactly the right message tonight. do you think that's the message a couple of weeks from now or even a week from now? >> yes. and this election five months away, jen, is going to be a contrast of joe biden's character and donald trump's corruption. and we must draw a sharply -- that contrast. and the winner, as i said, it's not a single person, it's this

idea of a rule of law, which donald trump works every day with his lawyers and congress not just his lawyers in the courtroom, but his lawyers like speaker johnson and jim jordan and others who work at the cost of doing anything to help you or your viewers but to rather help donald trump so. he works every day to tear down the rule of law and the rule of law won. and one other point here, because you know, we see people who we thought were going to save the republican party like nikki haley and others go all in for trump, and it reminds us that they're not going to save the country from donald trump, it's going to be every day citizens. the voters and the jurors. and i think as a former prosecutor of a judge who used to always read at the end of a trial a quote from justice william douglas, and the judge, yvonne gonzalez roger, she would tell the jurors, the jury lives only for day and does justice according to its limits. it makes up of 12 people who

make a decision and then they melt away, and they're not print the next day to be criticized. the one government agency that has no ambition. it's as human as the people who make it up. and that's who judged donald trump today. not alvin bragg, not joe biden, but his neighbors, the people he chose to live next to as he committed his crimes. >> it's such an important reminder, i mean, the jury, and who the jury is. i'm so grateful for you to bring that up. i just want to repeat what mike johnson, the speaker of the house, the second in line to the presidency, said today. i mean, he called this a shameful day in american history. and i guess my question to you is how to make sure, beyond donald trump, obviously, that's an important focus, but how should these individuals, the enablers, be held accountable? how will they be held accountable for this? >> they can't hold the keys to government any longer, because they've spent most of their time, this congress, in the majority with, by the way, the

same thin majority that nancy pelosi had when, you know, speaker pelosi was passing the inflation reduction act and the jobs and infrastructure bill and the gun safety legislation. they've spent their time working as a law firm on behalf of donald trump. and so we have to tell the voters that a trump presidency is going to be a me, me, me presidency. he's going to use it to benefit himself, and a biden presidency will finish the job on all of those issues. and so whether you vote for donald trump or not, you, the voter, will get nothing out of it. and the same goes for putting republicans back in charge of the congress. >> congressman eric swalwell, i'm so grateful for you. it's not as late, because you're in california, but i'm still grateful for you staying up with us this evening. so much more to discuss with our panel here, but thank you so much again. i'm joined now by tim miller, who's the host of the bull work

podcast, who's said after midnight is his primetime. we'll see if you bring the energy this evening. and the host of the msnbc podcast how to win 2024, a great podcast. and the special correspondent for vanity fair and an msnbc political analyst. so this is very fresh. it's quite -- it's difficult -- >> it's wild. >> -- to know the political impact. i'm going to start with you, palmieri, conviction is bad for trump. there's reports that his donation website crashed. where is this good for him and where is it bad for him? the obvious bad is the conviction, but where will he try to capitalize on this? >> he'll eraise money off of it. i think he will try to -- and this is why it was probably important for him that he got speaker johnson on the record

tonight and he had other republicans back him up because he's had such a hard time consolidating republican support behind him, he can use this to say you're not on my side if you are not condemning this action and trying to use it as a rallying cry. and then i think to try to paper over eother things -- try to paper, republicans, tim's friends who have concerns about jan 6th. >> they love me. yeah, they're inviting me to all their parties. >> you know, i think that's the potential benefit for him, right? is like consolidation. money and consolidation, grievance, focus. he likes it when it's focused on him. he likes this clear fight of they did this to me. it's not complicated. like that kind of stuff is, you know, i think he can try to use to his advantage. >> i mean, there's this argument i've seen some trump surrogates out there making tonight that now he's -- or this afternoon, i

guess, that now that this has happened he's -- it's not strength for him and he can talk about and bralt the issues with joe biden. i mean, to me i haven't seen any indication he wants to talk about anything other than these trials and being kind of the retribution, the representative of retribution. what do you think, tim, in terms of is there a pivot he could make in some fantasy world for them that would be useful, or do you think that's not going to happen? >> i think those are surrogates who are trying to sleep at night. donald trump's media feed is just deranged rants about, you know, retribution and revenge and casting out all the communists and fascists that went after him. and you know, he was -- i noticed he was bleeding cat turd two earlier, and you know how the republicans need to have the cajones to go after the democrats. and i think what has really happened on the right among actual elect odd official, if you look at them, with a few exceptions, like larry hogan, whatever, pretty much everybody else is fully on board.

>> and mo brooks. >> yeah, and mo blooks. they are fully on board with a deranged conspiracy theory that our justice system is broken and these 12 jurors were part of some collusion with the deep state. they are 100% on board with that message. larry hogan, who is one rare example to the contrary, tweeted out we should respect the justice department. trump's campaign manager retweeted that and said you're going to lose because of this. so they are bullying anyone in the republican side that does not get fully in line with their attacks on the american system of justice. that is -- it's, i think, much more extreme when you think about it that way than any of the one off messages. >> it has been striking the immediacy of these messages. you've seen from mike johnson and a -- people who want to be the vice president, marco rubio, really trying hard to kind of back up their guy.

but i'm not sure they're going to be held accountable by their own party. i guess the question is, will there be attention paid by others to what they're doing, and should there be more attention paid? >> well, look, the speaker of the house right now serves at the pleasure of donald trump because of his work trying to overturn the 2020 election. right? he didn't get that job because he was like a great leader. he was like number six in the caucus or whatever, seven, eight. he got that job because trump liked him and trump thought he was loyal. and so he proved that he's loyal to donald trump. he's not loyal to pretty much anything else, but donald trump. so i think, look, we've seen trump cares about loyalty and all these epeople have come out and gone, you know, to say that they are going to continue his weird campaign. but what i think is interesting about this trial is trump continues to think candidate trump benefits from defendant trump. >> yeah. >> and he did this during his civil trial too where he was like i have millions and

millions of dollars. and they were like, okay, we'll just make the fee higher. you know, and he had to pay a higher award than he would have been had he just been a normal defendant. and so i do think he thinks these criminal cases help him, and i don't think there's really any evidence to support that being a convicted felon is something that american vote ears want. >> i also think he's obsessed with the adulation from the base of the party that love this is retribution message. so there's been a range of polls on all of this, and obviously, it's hard to measure a hypothetical. it's now real. there was a new poll that came out today that said 17% said it might change their vote. we'll see. there's been a range of numbers out there. what do you think? what can the biden campaign be doing? is there something proactive they should be doing? is it just allowing this to play out in front of the public? like how do they get those people? >> we said so -- truth be told, everyone, there's been a lot of chatter about this behind the

scenes tonight in the hallways as we were all, you know -- and jen and i know, because we have been there both in campaigns and the white house when difficult moments like this arise, so i think what do they do thus far, they put statements out from spokespeople. that's a choice, that also kind of tells me that's like a holding pattern to get through the night. >> this is a really important point. and we all know this, like putting out statements at the level they put them out was a very -- i'm just double tapping on this point -- was a very specific choice. it wasn't even from jean pierre, it was from ian sams a senior person, but he's -- >> but he's in a silo. and the silo is white house counsel, right? >> right. >> so it was like we're not breaking new ground here. and then you had a statement from michael tyler, the communications director of the campaign. you talked about this earlier, that was a message to democrats. because you know, also, this is not a good day for donald trump but also for biden you don't want people to think he's going to go to jail and therefore he can't be the -- he can't run.

>> therefore everybody can rest. >> yeah. biden team needs everyone focussed that we have -- if you want to stop trump, you have to elect biden. that's what michael tyler is telling you. and what i think they're figuring out now -- and even though we know, like, you always plan for the court outcome, right? how many times with the supreme court, you have six different statements -- >> planning the scenarios, yeah. >> we have six different statements for every outcome, and everyone though you're prepared, once the decision actually happen, it always feels different, and you always need to kind of recalibrate when the stakes are really high. and i think -- and also, you know, i don't think -- think it would have been weird for the president to come out tonight, for all those reason, but we can talk more about what he might want to say. but i think waiting until tomorrow at least is the right thing. >> hold that thought. we have to sneak in a quick break. everybody's sticking around because we're less than six months from aelection day, and the leading republican candidate has now been found guilty of 34 felonies and we need to talk about whether that matter in

november, how it will matter so. we'll talk more about that after a quick break. e about that after a quick break.

♪♪ imagine a future where plastic is not wasted... but instead remade over and over... into the things that keep our food fresher, our families safer, and our planet cleaner. to help us get there, america's plastic makers are investing billions of dollars to create innovative products and new recycling technologies for sustainable change. because when you push for smarter solutions, big things can happen. moments after the jury found donald trump guilty on all 34 counts of falsifying business records, there was one last order of business for the court, a sentencing date. after confirming with lawyers on both sides, judge juan merchan announced that the former

president will be sentenced on july 11th. that's just four days before the start of the republican national convention in milwaukee, where he's expected to officially become the party's nominee for president. this doesn't change much for trump campaign in the immediate future, in the coming weeks. nothing in the constitution bars anyone convict odd after felony from running for president. it also fits neatly into the victimhood narrative that we've been talking about a little bit that he's been cultivating for years. i mean, just 15 minutes after the verdict was announced, trump's campaign sent out its first post-conviction email. the top of the message read, quote, i am a political prisoner. and below that was an image of the former president that linked back to his website, where supporters can donate to his campaign. the biden campaign was similarly quick to fundraise off the news of the conviction from the campaign, reminding people on social media that, quote, there's only one way to keep donald trump out of the oval office, at the ballot box. but at this point it's still

unclear how this historic conviction will affect the presidential race. i mean, it's not good to be convicted. i think we can all establish that. a recent poll showed 10% of republicans and 11% of independents said a conviction in this case will make them less likely to vote for trump in november. but this has been a consistently tight race, and any small changes could be a big deal. i'm also curious as to what percentage of the public even knows what has been happening with this trial to date. now that we have an actual conviction, people have to consider if they can actually cast a vote far twice impeached convicted felon on election day, which is just a little over five months away. tim, jen, and molly are back with me. we were talking a little bit during the break what the president should say. they're going to have to decide how to say that and where to say that, and if you're sitting in the white house, you're having discussions about that, you're maybe putting bullets on a note card for the president to use. you don't want it to happen when he's walking out to the helicopter. you don't want it to happen in a

forum that's going to be strange, right? he's standing with national security officials. so give us a set, like what do you think he should say, and what do you think those conversations might be like? >> i think that -- i think, i mean, you know what they're like. it's like the white house counsel. and this is how good decisions get made, honestly. take some time, have lawyers involved, have, you know, have people like mike don lin, now part of the campaign, but knows the president's voice, involved. and communications people. you're going to get the best, you know, you're going get a full, comprehensive answer that way. but i think that it is -- i imagine it's something like it's a humbling day for the united states because a former president of the united states was convicted of a crime. and like try to put that in a larger historical perspective but also that -- but it held that -- he was held to account. and - he was held to account an

but it held that he was held to account and that is an important part of american democracy. in the american people's hands, the jurors, and this election is going to be in the american people's hands, as well. i think it is something that your audience are the american people but also the percentage of republicans who sat there going to be really concerned about a conviction. >> tim, talk to us about that. is he the right person to talk to them? what could he say that is appealing to that group of people? even though it is not political, does it make it wth political when he speaks? >> i would like to see him let it rip a little bit more. my lowbrow idea is that biden should just start going out and

reading donald trump strip social bolus to people. they are deranged. it's like do you want this person to president? that is kind of a silly idea like kind of but not really. people should know what trump is actually saying and i don't think the people in the nikki haley bubble, you know, maybe they just watch the bears show over on the other network. i don'tey wnd think they see ho the rocker donald trump is and i think putting that in people's faces. here is the other thing, though. donald trump is now a criminal surrounded by criminals and their plan is to tear down the american system of justice and like, that is not a popular opinion among college educated -- they don't want the system to be burned down. they have a mutual fund so they are not in for this anarchy political prisoner nonsense. that's not what they signed up for so i think highlighting that, pushing back, making sure people know about this criminal regime he has you can start listing. campaign chairman, former fixer, it's a long list at this point. his accountant at ththe trump business. i think it's important.

the other thing that would be my little push back is, the other group that is not my people is the low-info, tiktok- watching younger democrats and they are not fully on board. i don't think they know who judge merchan is and an aggressive message that could kind of breakthrough maybe gets people back on site. >> it doesn't have to be biden. >> that's what i was going to ask you about, molly. it is a tricky balance because you look at social media platforms for a lot of these people are who may not love joe biden at this moment and they want him to go out and have a picture of donald trump and rip it apart and say he's a convicted felon from the white house. he's not going to do that, so how does he satisfy the base of

the party and people who need to feel he is engaged and has life in him about what just happened? >> what i think is important is that trump is really an autocrat and his running as an autocrat and part of that is to tear down american institutions, the courts, the judge, and he's gotten his people to do that, too. what falls to joe biden is to preserve the norms and luckily for him, joe biden loves the norms, so i think he gets out there and says likely, this is the way the courts are supposed to work. these are a jury of his peers. they went and found him guilty and look, you know, the reality is there were three other cases trump was able to use $100 million of donor money. so it's not that trump didn't get away with a lot of stuff. it's just like the one casey was not able to delay, the jury of his peers, very educated new york people, two lawyers, found him guilty. >> the other thing happening,

first of all terrible, his sons trial and e,the day. -- t-day. he will be leaving soon to go to europe and talk about protecting democracy. that is a good time to give a speech. you want to lay this out and have a somber foundation of your overall argument and take it in all of these different ways. thank you for staying with me. trump is convicted on all 34 charges in the hush money cases. we have another live breaking news hour full of analysis coming up after a quick break. i'll be right back.

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just hours ago, the former president and current presumptive republican nominee was found guilty on 34 counts of falsifying business records.