we've seen him have some big falls in life. we've seen him declare bankruptcy a whole bunch of times. we've seen him involved in humiliating scandals of various kinds. but when it came to actually really being knocked flat, it's been twice. one is losing the 2020 election, the way he responded to that was by creating an alternate universe in which he did not lose the 2020 election, and the country is still paying the price. >> three times. losing the 2020, the new york attorney general case, and now the 34-count -- >> the new york attorney general case with the massive civil penalty against him. >> yes. >> now this criminal case, you're right to point that out in terms of the devastating nature of that blow in that civil case. hundreds of millions of dollars that he owes. now in this criminal case, in this civil case and the criminal case, he does not have the option to do what he did losing the 2020 election. t he did losin the 2020 election. 2020 election. he doesn't have the option to he say that didn't really happen.

let's have echo alternate universe in which the civil penalty didn't happen. and these criminal convictions did not happen. from your sense of how he movese through the world and how he deals with humiliation and failure, what do you think he has left to do that he can do in response to this that we should be prepared for? >> he is going to blame everybody other than himself. judge merchan is corrupt. judge engoron is corrupt. michael cohen is a liar, a felon. a rat and everything else he has been calling me for over six years. he will blame everybody else other than himself. he does not understand the concept of accountability. somewhere along the line, i guess, his parents didn't teach him that there are consequences for actions. >> on the consequences

question. it struck me, i was in the courtroom one of the days you were testifying. there was this line of people who had come to support donald trump orientation and to be vice president or something. they want to be what you were at some point in your life. a guy that serves donald trump, works for donald trump. you are being like, this is how it worked out for me. they are sitting there watching you. i was in solitary. my law license got taken away all the things i did for this guy. and they are sitting there, i want to do that. allen weisselberg, rikers. the 51 days you did and solitary. jeff sessions no longer has a job. first attorney general. bill barr, rudy giuliani will be disbarred. all these people that were loyal to him. they end up getting werun throu the machine. they get ground up into dust but not him.

what does it take to get through that simple message of self-preservation. you are next, dude. do you think how you could possibly communicate that effectively to the people sitting there auditioning to be a person that answers to donald trump. >> in 2018, you may remember, the house oversight committee, i turned and i looked at mark meadows and i said, i know what you are doing. i know the playbook you are trying to run because i wrote it. look what's happening to me. in a few weeks, i am going to prison. i strongly suggest you think before you keep acting the way you are. he did not listen and now look what happened to mark meadows. jenna ellis, kristina bob, rudy. you have everybody. anybody that goes in his orbit o loses everything.

i would turn around and say to them, this is not the job you want. look at what happened to me. look at the arc of my life. i retired. i was 30 night. i am not a rags to riches story thanks to donald. i am reaches to rake story thanks to donald. you asked a great question. what will it take? 51 days of solitary confinement as well as having the president of the united states weaponize the department of justice by losing a complicit attorney general to violate your constitutional rights to create a counterfeit document. a fraudulent document to mandate you sign it and if you don't they take that fraudulent document and remand you back to prison after putting you in a freezer for a few hours then ultimately shipping you up for more solitary confinement. that's what it's going to ftak >> nis one more question, michael. it's not about you specifically. i listened to stormie daniels

that you did on your podcast and she hasn't done a lot of talking outside of corporate she was treated the same way you were when she took the stand. you will mentioned the three times donald trump is mentioned of. the fourth is e. jean carroll who also gut a very large civil verdict against donald trump. he has not been lucky in his dealings with strong women who have been willing to fight back. i want to ask about her. what did you make -- her willingness to step forward and deal with the same thing you did, as you said, you were humiliated. they attempted to try to humiliate you on the stand and they did that to her. i want your assessment of her as someone who interviewed her for your podcast and someone who so she went through that even before you hit the stand. what do you make of her role in

this case? >> she is unflappable. people discount her because of her profession. it bothered me a lot. the porn star this. what they were trying to do is discredit her in the eyes of the jury. once again, i think it was a poor decision by todd blanche or susan necheles. they could not have a guy saying that. they would say the same things, think it was a poor decision to go after her. people don't know unless you've read her book, she is wickedly smart. i think she graduated valedictorian of her high h school class. she is much smarter than they sh are. whether you like her profession or you do not, i'm not sure why, it's anybody's business, but she is not somebody who is easily pushed around. she demonstrated that. she was unflappable. she was rock solid. she was going to speak her truth, and she did. >> was there any doubt -- you

had a campaign email, you aren't on the campaign but they were focused on winning the election. was there any doubt among the people on donald trump's team that he had in fact had that sexual encounter? they made that an issue in the case. they tried to deny it. >> again, that was something i am certain that donald trump dictated to the various different attorneys. i want it this way. i wanted that way. and why they listened after you see what happened to someone like myself, why? >> i'm getting whiplash year. >> do you think they were back to attend trial? >> that's a great question. it's funny because katie phang posted something about have done jr. must've lost paper scissors and rock. they took tremendous offense. this is what they took offense

to. ivanka never showed. i don't think jared ever showed up and neither did melania. you have to ask why? i can understand why melania did not, to be honest. hush money case in the notion of donald having this sexual relationship, not just with stormie daniels, but with l kar mcdougal as well. i'm sure melania was trying to preserve perrone sense of identity and maybe to protect barron as well. rr >> if you want to treat that decision with the honor think it deserves that a human level, you would ness trump's counsel invoke melania repeatedly. blaming her for coming up with the locker room talk defense. >> they introduce her to the jury. that's why wonder why she never

showed up. >> andrew weissmann is also not in this room like lawrence is not in this room but wants to ask a question. andrew, you are allowed to ask michael cohen a question. >> hi, michael. hi, done you. i have a question about the actual last witness in the case on the defense case. bob costello. we all got to read a series of emails, some of which you are em on and some that were happening behind your back which i think, the jury were led to believe, probably concluded, that it was a huge effort that was undertaken by him, by rudy giuliani, and by defendant trump to keep you from cooperating so you would not flip. i was wondering if you could take us back to that time as to what was it within you that new to not go with bob costello and

go with a petrillo and end up breaking with trump world and seeing this was not the road that was being orchestrated for you was not where you wanted to be? >> that's a great question, andrew. from the first meeting i had with him and jeffrey, all they wanted me to do was sign every trainer agreement and all they were interested in doing -- bob castillo was interested in was n promoting himself and his relationship with rudy giuliani. i never liked rudy and i never trusted rudy. i watched him try to manipulate the game when he was trying to get more involved in the trump sphere. every time that bob castillo would mention rudy giuliani, there was a picture of his cell phone he is trying to prove that he just spoke to rudy. i

realized that what they're doing to me is what i have seen in the past. that was also when they did the same with, i think it was either paul manafort or steve bannon, with interrogatories when they were working with the lawyer in order to ensure that donald's responses to the interrogatories match that of either been in our manafort. when something sits wrong in your, and you've got to follow your gut? in an exam they say go with your first answer? when you start scratching off it's usually the wrong answer? my initial impression was stayaway -- i wanted to keep him around so i could pick his brain, whatever is there. what i was most concerned about was the fact that he was going to run back to rudy who was

going to use that information in order to ingratiate himself into donald. i realized i was being set up. >> can i confirm it was rudy, drunken giuliani. >> michael: and danya perry, thank you for being here. this was an unusual interview and talk to all of us. >> i feel okay because i had my crackerjack lawyer next to me. >> this starts a different part of your life now. putting this behind you and we wish you all the best. >> great to see you. straight we will speak with jamie raskin in a moment. i am interested in getting his reaction in terms of what happened today. somebody who has been so much a central part of trying to get accountability for trump's alleged crimes in washington and explaining them and explaining constitutional law to the american public.

jamie raskin is in a singular position. is michael and danya leave us, he has his own place in history here. shakespearean . he is in the middle of it. >> i think what i loved about ab your conversation that we can drink and is he is complicated. i think trump's legal team erred in flattening him. the jury could see his peaks and valleys. they could experience his story in part because of the work of his lawyer danya perry and preparing him not to flatten the trump experience. i think it aided his credibility to say i love parts of my time with trump. everyone told the same story. michael cohen told it 17 -- he was the last witness but in terms of telling the same story about catch and kill and you heard from -- he comes in at

the end. there was such a gap between the way a lot of people in the media, not us, but people covered michael cohen and the way he was introduced to the jury with all of his peaks and valleys. i think they did not look away from the valleys. they did not look away from the crimes. they didn't look away from the things he did wrong. d danya perry and the prosecutors prepared him to own the crimes he committed on trump's we have. in the end, the jury was capable of assessing what he did wrong, who he did it for, then they were instructed by judge merchan to corroborate it and you have to look at those four pieces of evidence i wonder if that was what they were trying to do. >> there is such a connection to the january 6 case and that everyone involved were trump people except stormy daniels. none of these were people who went to this as his enemy just like the january 6 case. these are people in the

administration who were allies of trump and wanted him to be president and wanted him to win. when they went over the january 6 committee, the true they had to tell was dampening to him and it was the same thing. david pecker was a mustache even as he was testifying. >> as was hope hicks and jeff ef mcconney. >> they were still trump people. >> there is a tendency that history will judge things a certain way. we don't know because it depends who. i think of john dean a lot. he was the guy that turned on nixon and said, he came clean. he is remembered for that. that is john dean. that is what he is remembered for. he got to a lot of funny business before that moment which is less remembered. >> there's a reason he was in a

position as >> john dean was chin deep in that step. he had a moment of conscious and came forward and told the truth about what he was seeking. he is remembered as a hero for e doing the right thing when it mattered. i think there's something to take away from that. >> michael cohen's testimony was subjected to a high level of scrutiny but the jury upon direct instruction from the judge. judge merchan said keep in mind that michael cohen for all the other ways he has been be described is an accomplice in the charged crime so therefore you may not accept his testimony. you may not accept his testimony except if it's corroborated by other evidence and testimony. you cannot take it on his word. as michael just explained, everything he testified to the was substantively important was corroborated by other people and by documents. join us knows congressman jamie

raskin of maryland, the top democrat on the oversight committee in the constitutional law explainer in chief to the american public. he served on the january 6 committee and the lead manager and donald trump's second impeachment trial which is about trump trying to overthrow the government by force. it's an honor to have you. thank you. >> thank you so much. >> let me ask you first of all if we have been talking about this in a way that is wrong or if you feel like the media reaction, the expository work we have been trying to do explaining what happened and it's importance is off-base. have we been getting it the ve wrong way around? >> no, resonate with the conversation i was just listening to. i take great pride in what has happened because i feel it such a sweet vindication of the rule of law and all the complicated parts of it that frustrate people because it slows things

down like the presumption of innocence. the fact you need a unanimous verdict among 12 citizens randomly drawn. the fact the defendant does not have to testify and can elect not to testify. like due process and the right to appeal which undoubtedly donald trump, as a convicted felon, will exercise in order to exercise his appeals rights and he has a right to do that. i think we can feel proud the system of justice and rule of law within liberal democracy has survived. i also have felt proud actually about being a politician because most politicians do not behave like donald trump. the first thing he ever ran for was president and that was an act of great hubris which paid off for him. most of us go out and try to get things done for our constituents then we ask for votes.

we don't view it as an exercisee in celebrity and glamour. and yet, trump to the extent he got involved in politics was about shaking down the president of ukraine to make up lies and dirt about his opponent or paying hush money to keep the truth out of the mainstream of public opinion. or inciting a violent insurrection to overthrow an election and try to conduct a coup against the peaceful transfer of power. most politicians do not behave like that. if you do not behave like that, you might not be the richest person in the world, and you might not get to own your own hotels and islands and so one. you can serve people and that's what it's about. the minute a politician no longer acts as a servant of the people but master the people like a monarch or king, that's the time to evict, reject, impeach, convict, prosecute,

get them out of the way becauset democracy is all about serving the people. those of us who aspire and attain public office is nothing but servants of the people. >> in your role as a politician, as you put it, you have played key roles to hold trump accountable. the january 6 investigation and the second impeachment of trump, obviously. there are people looking at the reaction from republicans tonight who were looking at the trump instant efforts to fundraise off of this conviction tonight, who were looking at the predictions that trump and his allies and even some independent observers saying it will make him a martyr. this was somehow help him politically. how do you view that -- first, how do you view that? do you share that perception? how do you factor that into calculus as to how much work should be done to hold him accountable? particularly when we do not have

expectations he will end up in a prison sentence or keep him from running again or anything else that might matter to him a great deal? >> you have to celebrate the jury system. when the country started and in its british antecedents, a lot of juries were composed of people from a particular craft or profession. you literally had to know about bricklaying in order to judge a bricklaying case and so on. in the american example, we draw from the whole community. it's a cross-section. that's one of the beautiful things about what we saw happen today. we brought impeachment charges against donald trump for inciting insurrection in the vote in the house of representatives would 232-197. we got all the democrats and 10 republicans. there were still 197 people who saw the insurrection happen and saw exactly what trump did who voted no.

that we got to the senate and the evidence was overwhelming and we had a 57-43 vote which is not enough. we were 10 votes shy of the two thirds requirement. look what happened in that jury today. it was unanimous. 12 people who were drawn without political or partisan resonance or implications to their appointment. they were just citizens and they study the facts and scrutinize the witnesses and they came back with a verdict that vindicated common sense. you have to put your faith in the people. it doesn't mean it's failsafe. it doesn't always work, but the people here have done their job. the jury did the job and the judge did an excellent job of clarifying every step of the process. >> in terms of faith yiin peopl there are nine people in the country does not have a lot of faith in right now at the fa united states supreme court. we are waiting there verdict on among other things, their ruling on among other things the case as to whether or not presidents are immune from

prosecution. aside from the question of potential recusal from justice alito and thomas which i know you have written about and advocating on strongly, what are you expecting from the supreme court in terms of that immunity rolling. which of the public understand about when impact that might have on this verdict today and the other pending cases against trump? >> the main thing we can expect from it is to leave and postponement. that is clearly the political logic that was operating when the supreme court did not simply summarily affirm a brilliant d.c.'s circuit court opinion, unanimous bipartisan decision the president is not above the law. of course the president cannot order out assassinations and remain immune from prosecution so long as he is not impeached and convicted in the senate.

something that is never happened in our history with our four impeachments that went to senate trial. they have slowed everything down. they will probably slice the baloney fine and take up a bunch of completely unnecessary questions, rendering advisory opinions azeri are not supposed to do about, what if it were a crime that was clearly outside of the president's duties. if it was inside the president's duties are on the line or near the line, they will make it seem like a far more complex case than it is in order to justify the post, and delay which is the whole purpose of taking it up. they should've denied cert as they do more than 99% of the cases they should've summarily affirm with the d.c. circuit had done and that magisterial totally comprehensive opinion. >> congressman jamie raskin, it's an honor to have you with

us. thank you for the time. we've got much more of our special coverage ahead. i have to tell you. mary trump will be joining us for her first interview since her uncle donald trump was convicted by a jury of his co peers. it's our ongoing special coverage of the yi unanimous guilty on all counts verdict against former president trump, the first-ever american president to be convicted of one crime let alone 34 felonies. we will be back.

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before donald trump himself was convicted of 34 felonies today, the list of his close allies who were convicted of her head pled guilty to crimes was unusually long for anyone in public life let alone anybody who was an elected official. his former campaign was charging convicted and sentenced to prison. as chairman, rick gates was charging convicted. has adviser and campaign aide roger stone was charged, convicted, and sentence. as white house national security adviser mike flynn was charged and convicted. campaign adviser was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison. his business cfo allen weisselberg was charged, convicted, sentenced to prison. 's business itself was found guilty of criminal tax fraud and real estate organizations can go to prison otherwise it

might have. of course, trump's former personal lawyer michael cohen who would you spoke with onset was charged, convicted, and sentenced to prison for a criminal scheme that prosecutors described as directed by trump for which trump was the beneficiary. he was the star witness in the prosecution's case in which donald trump was just convicted on all 34 felony counts. as of tonight, donald trump himself has joined the ignominious list. it feels inevitable, looking back, but until it happened tonight, nobody could be sure it ever would. that said, he seems to know it was coming. he seems to have known something . this remarkable headline in "the new york times" as we, quote, trump leans into an outlaw image as his criminal trial concludes. the former president increasingly aligned himself with fellow defendants and people convicted of crimes. as we headed toward this

unanimous, all counts guilty verdict tonight, donald trump has recently in fact been bringing convicted and accused felons with him to campaign events including people accused of murder. he has even been bringing ex- cons and convicted felons with him to stand behind him in court and his days in court for this criminal trial. it's clearly a political strategy. he thinks it's a tough guy look that will work for him presumably? he also has to lean into wake, right? you cannot pretend to be a criminal when you're a criminal defendant. this is who he is surrounding himself with and part of his messages pick me among the criminal side of the ledger, pick me and my criminal friends. we will take care this legal system you've got here. convicted of 34 felonies tonight. joining us is donald trump's nice mary trump.

the author of a book about her uncle called too much and never enough. how my family created the world's most dangerous man. she is the host of the nerd avengers a mary trump media.com. it is her first interview since this verdict today. mary trump, it's nice to see you. thank you for being with us. >> it is great to be here. >> what was your reaction when you heard the news? >> i was, as you can imagine, relieved, happy, and it took a minute to sink in, but as the counts went one through 34. guilty, guilty, et cetera. the weight of this moment really sunk in. it really hit me. this has so much meaning for all of us. i am incredibly proud of my city and my state. i am relieved on behalf of the

american people. it is such a long time coming, and i know he has been found guilty of the charges that were presented to the jury, but in some ways, it feels it's standing in for all of the other crimes this man has gotten away with. his entire life. there was something incredibly gratifying and moving about it. i have heard people say that we can celebrate the jury system. we can celebrate the jurors say in the way the trial was handled, but it's a dark day in america that somebody in his position has been found guilty of these crimes. i would respectfully disagree. i think it's a great day for america. i think it shows us in some instances when it really matters, the system is holding, and even somebody like him, who has with impunity gotten away

with some of the most egregious crimes over the course of decades, has finally, at long last, been held accountable. >> what impact do you think this will have on him personally? you understand his sort of demeanor and await the rest of us do not. the rest of us have only seen the public side of him. how do you think this will change him or land with them? how do you think you will respond? >> i heard michael cohen say earlier that donald is somebody who will never take responsibility and will always deflect and cast blame to anybody else. this is something he learned at the knee of my grandfather who taught donald the same thing. never take responsibility for anything. we saw that during his disastrous four years during his administration. he never takes responsibility for anything. because of that along with the fact that, again, he is operated

with impunity for so long, i think it will take a long time for this to sink in and we will see similar dynamic to what happened after the 2020 election. there's a moment in private when he understood that he had lost. he will understand he has been found guilty on 34 criminal counts -- i shouldn't smile but it makes me smile to say that out loud. the humiliation of that will hit him so deeply, as it did four years ago that he, as i believe you said earlier, will have to create his alternate reality. unfortunately, we see it's not something that just impacts him. it is something that has drawn in tens of millions of people, and is left all of us at risk. we need to expect the same thing here. he will do everything in his power to spin this so that -- he will try to make it an advantage to him. we need to guard against that. he will also stop at nothing to

change the subject. i do not agree that we do not have to worry about violence here. we need to worry about his willingness and eagerness actually to use his power and his platform to get other people to carry out his threats. we saw this yesterday when the officer's mother was swatted shortly after he showed up to speak his mind outside of the courthouse yesterday. there is a lot going on but we can never underestimate or overestimate, sorry, the extent to which donald will use any means at his disposal to deflect and get his way. >> mary comments alex wagner. we know from reports and what we are witnessing that your uncle was resting his retinas to be generous at many points

during the trial when the verdict was read, he was very much eyes wide open. he was paying attention and largely expressionless. maybe because there weren't cameras or he was intently focused. do you think he is afraid right now? there's the real possibility he will serve prison time. it may not be this year. we don't know when it will be but given what michael cohen has served for the same crime, do you think he is quietly very scared? >> he certainly should be. whether he expresses that consciously or not, i don't know. on a deep level, he is afraid. alex, this is a moment he has been dreading his entire life. donald has always known that he is nothing of what his claim to be. he's not a tough guy. he's not an outlaw. he is something who is

terrified of humiliation. he is somebody who understands that and the language of my family, being a loser is the worst thing you can be. he cannot pretend otherwise. i think he also must sense that this is a very big domino that has fallen here. we may see, are hopefully we will see, a very swift unraveling of his support. i think we will see trial blues the next day from republicans who may not want to be associated with somebody who is a convicted felon running for the presidency, but there are all sorts of reasons for donald to be afraid right now. chief among them, even though this is not something that can happen in reality, he understands that in my family, if you are a loser that something that will get you killed. metaphorically speaking. >> mary, it's lawrence

o'donnell. i want to follow up on that loser point. i have watched the courtroom so many days with michael cohen on the stand and others. your uncle was sitting there as a sales man that he always is. he's always trying to sell something. he was trying to sell those 12 people on a story he wasn't willing to say himself. he was not willing to testify about michael cohen to testify. now, when donald trump heard guilty 34 times, he discovered that it didn't work. that he spent all these weeks in this room trying to sell those people, and it did not work. unanimously, they did not buy it. the same time, when he heard those 34 guilty's, he had to realize, they believed stormy daniels. they believed everything she said. every detail about inside the hotel room. they believe michael cohen.

they did not believe my side of the story that i was trying to sell them. and so, he comes out the loser in that charm and selling contest with that jury. i am wondering what that does to him? that goes to the very core of what he thinks his talent is which is convincing people of things. >> it's such an excellent point. we see, and he has learned, what happens in a situation in which he is not fully in control or does not have other people controlling the environment to his benefit. we saw this in part by his complete lack of understanding that he even needed to try. i think if you want the jury on your side, you are not going to fall asleep during people's testimony. you are not going to attack

them ever in any way whatsoever. you are going to be attentive. you will not complain about the conditions inside the courtroom because he is not the only person who needed to be there but he's the only person who was there because he did not have a choice because he is the one who committed these crimes we can now say. everybody else had to be there because of what he had done. he just didn't understand what it means to cater to people in an environment he does not control. i think it was his lack of control that made it impossible for him to rise to the occasion. we know he was never going to testify. he really needed to sort of behave like a respectable, decent human being who is taking this seriously and not just skating on his hope that the jury was going to be so

intimidated by him and his power and his position. it failed miserably. i think he is going to understand that, and he will blame his lawyers. he will blame the judge. he will blame everybody on this tv program right now. he will blame everybody and will not take responsibility, but he will understand the limits to his own personal power. i think that is going to freak him out. >> it is joy. thank you for being here. if he has had a reckoning emotionally, even privately, after this conviction, he will have another on july 11 when he is sentenced. four days later, he will accept the nomination of the republican party. prepare us for what the propaganda field will look like . how will he explain this? and call upon his party to explain this to that crowd at

the republican national convention? what should we expect to hear as an excuse for what happened at that .4 days earlier? >> it's a great question and it sort of related to what we were just talking about a minute ago. he is going to feel completely unbound by any sense of having to operate within somebody else's system to the extent he even bothered. once we get to sentencing, i think you will realize that the other thing he wasn't able to control and was not able to behave in the context of was the idea that he might be facing prison. the irony for him, of course, is if he behaved like a normal

human being throughout the trial, the risk of prison would have been fairly low. but because of his gracious behavior, because he broke the gag order 11 times, because the judge had to make that ruling and because the judge deferred any significant punishment, i think the chances he gets a prison term increased exponentially. he will have to deal with that as well. whatever happens, the convention is going to make 2016 look like child's play. joy, as i think you said earlier, the hideous chance of lock her up, they utter lawlessness and vindictiveness that was directed at the democratic candidate, hillary clinton, was like nothing we had ever seen before in this country. it is going to be so much worse. so much darker and given the

fact that we have already seen what he has been doing. he and his minions and enablers in the republican party have been telling us the last few months exactly what they plan to do with his country if we are reckless enough to give them power again. >> mary trump, hi. it's ari melber. we try not to speculate, but you can, do you have the view that donald trump based on what you know would be likely to fire his lawyers in this case soon? we have already seen some depart . if he gets legal counsel to show contrition to authorize his lawyers to express that at sentencing, is there any way you think he could play that out, pretend to feel that way for a day? >> you know, i think he is constitutionally incapable. even if her to his benefit.

one of the biggest clues to that end is the way his lawyers behaved in the courtroom clearly at his direction, even though it went against what they should've been doing to protect their client. i'm not a lawyer and even i was able to identify serious missteps his lawyers made because donald was directing them to say certain things are behave in certain ways. that is because he cannot face the truth about who he is or why he was there or what he is facing. so, i do not think there will be any mitigating -- there will certainly be pretense at contrition. he is going to put himself in even more jeopardy whether or not he retains his counsel, i do not know. if i were them, i wouldn't want to continue working for him.

i can imagine they are having a good night. let's put it that way. >> mary trump, we are really glad you could be with us tonight. privilege to have you here on such an important moment in history. >> thank you. now that trump has been found guilty, one of the things we have been talking about, joy you were talking about this, is the next step in the process. sentencing. the sentencing hearing has been set, july 11 at 10:00 a.m. eastern. until them trump has bail conditions because he's a criminal defendant. he is out on his own recognizance without bail. he is free to move about the country the way he wants to. he was found guilty on all 34 counts that he was charged with and each of those counts in terms of sentencing carries with it the possibility of up to four years in prison. judge merchan is likely, if he does impose prison sentence, is

likely to impose sentences concurrently meaning he would not stack up four years then for dig then four years. it means trump but served up to four years simultaneously and not 136 string. in terms of whether he will be incarcerated and end up behind bars in a prison summer, that is unclear. it's not necessarily required. judge merchan could impose a sentence of probation with no prison time involved. it would still mean trump would be the first former president required to regularly report to a probation officer. it could mean the bar for him to be jailed if he committed other crimes in the future could be lowered to the floor. him being on probation would mean the ability to jailed trump and effectively be instantly -- if he committed any other crimes. it's a weird way to live let alone as a presidential

candidate potentially a president. all of that how the sentence will physically manifest and restrain him one way or the other, that's likely far off. trump will certainly appeal the verdict today. the appeals process will definitely put this past the election. being found guilty does not bar you from running for president. what does trump's sentencing mean in terms of what happens before the election? practically speaking, it means he will be back in a manhattan courtroom with the news of the 34 guilty verdicts on the front pages across the country at his sentencing hearing on july 11, four days after that on july 15, unless the republican party changes course, that will be the start of the republican national convention that will nominate him for the presidency. joining us is somebody who has direct experience with these matters. a former assistant district attorney in the district

attorney office. catherine christian. thank you for being with us. did i explain those basics of what comes next, the probation report, the sentencing phase and what we can likely expect from the face, is that correct as you understand it? >> it is correct except you will probably see donald trump's lawyers file a motion to set aside the verdict which is allowed before sentencing. it's under the criminal procedure law, 340 motion. they will file it and the prosecution will have a chance to respond to it and then judge merchan will make a decision on that. that often will delay the sentence . everything else, the probation data that doesn't mean he's getting probation but they are tasked with doing the report for the sentencing, for the judge to determine what is the appropriate sentencing. except for that filing of the

motion to set aside the verdict, it will go according to how it always is for regular defendants. >> the filing of the motion to set aside the verdict, that is separate from and in addition to the oral motion we heard in the court today after the jury verdict where todd blanche asked for an acquittal? >> yeah. it's unclear because i was in the subway when my phone blew up. originally, you recall, move for what's a trial order of dismissal. the judge reserved decision on that. it's unclear whether the judge finally said tonight. that is also outstanding. in addition, they can file a motion to set aside the verdict. then when that is denied, which it ultimately will be, and he is sentence, then the appeal will be filed. >> in terms of the appeals process and sentencing process, the sentencing will go ahead in anticipation of his filing their.

he will not delay the sentencing to come at the end of the appeals process? >> sentencing comes before appeal. you can file until you have been sentenced and it's official he is now sentence, convicted felon of 34 counts. he files the notice for appeal and assuming his lawyers, whoever will do the appeal, response in time and gets the filings in, i believe the appellate division will decide the appeal probably by january or february 2025. assuming everything is done on time by the parties. the court is ready but the parties have to file their briefs into everything on time. >> if he is elected president in the election in november and that appeal, as you said, but otherwise in the normal course be expected in january 2025, do you think his election as president has an anticipating

effect in terms of how the appellate division will manhandle this? >> i do not think so at all. this is state and they will decide either the jury was right or your conviction has been affirmed and then he can try to appeal to the higher court. in new york is called the court of appeals pork they will treat him like any other defendant who falls in appeal and files everything on time. >> is the appeals process like the process we just saw in judge merchan's courtroom 10 which the defendant has to be present? >> he has a right to but does not have to be present. defendants usually are not present at the appellate court when the appeals are argued. they have a right to but he will not be there. >> one last question on the

probation department, they prepare a report essentially an internal or as a public facing that is essentially meant to help the judge and the judgment ski decision on the sentence? >> is filed and still old school and the criminal term in manhattan. it is filed with the court. it's called the investigation sentencing period. the report is filed, defensive prosecutors will get it in the court will get it and ultimately it's on the official court file. >> catherine christian, absolutely essential to have you with us here tonight. thank you so much. we have more ahead. our coverage continues of the historic conviction of former president trump, a unanimous jury verdict today, convicted on all 34 felony counts. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection.

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