sole you're you are watching our live continuing special coverage of today's unanimous guilty on all counts verdict in

the criminal trial of former president donald trump. i'm rachel maddow. i'm here with my colleagues stephanie ruhle and jen psaki and alex wagner and chris hayes. in a courtroom in downtown manhattan just after 5:00 eastern time this evening the foreperson of the jury rose and delivered the jury's unanimous verdict, donald trump guilty on all 34 counts of falsifying business records in order to conceal a scheme to corrupt the 2016 election. it's a scheme that was described by the prosecution in their summation as something that may very well have been the reason that donald trump won the 2016 election. as of tonight it is officially a criminal scheme. he has been convicted on 34 counts. with those convictions we enter uncharted territory as a country. for the first time a president has been criminally convicted, and for the first time one of our two main political parties is about to nominate that same man for president after he has

been convicted of 34 felonies. that is where we are tonight. there's been no official reaction from president biden tonight to a jury finding his predecessor and 2024 competitor today guilty on those charges. i should tell you today's the anniversary of president's son, beau, dying. the president is spending time with family in delaware. for the most part the president has been circumspect in making any statements regarding trump's trial at all. that's been true all along. >> have you been following that at all? >> only on the evening.

>> recently there have been a few occasions particularly in a campaign context when president biden has been willing to sort of obliquely acknowledge the legal troubles of his rival. >> under my predecessor who's busy right now pennsylvania lost 270,000 jobs. i had a great stretch since the state of the union, with donald you might call it stormy weather. what the hell? now he's acting like he wants to debate me again. well, make my day, pal. i'll even do it twice. plus pick the dates, donald. i hear you're free on wednesdays. >> free on wednesdays referring to the fact the trial schedule kept donald trump free on wednesdays because judge merchan had other matters to attend to

most wednesdays. the white house council's office which represents the office of the presidency and not the president himself did offer this short statement to the jury verdicts tonight. they said, quote, we respect the rule of law and have no additional comment. the biden campaign did put ought a statement. quote, donald trump always believed he would never face the conskwpss for breaking the law. but today's verdict does not change the fact the american people face a simple reality. there is still only one way to keep donald trump out of the office, at the ballot box. convicted felon or not, trump will be the republican nominee for president. on a similar and shorter note former white house staffer and now trump antagonist anthony scaramucci, remember him, he posted this today in response to the verdict, quote, trump will never be president again. from democratic senator corey

booker of new jersey, this response today. today our legal system has reaffirmed no one is above the law. kathy hochul, quote, in preparation for a verdict in this trial i've directed my administration to closely coordinate with local and federal law enforcement and we continue to monitor the situation. we're committed to protecting the safety of all new yorkers and the integrity of our judicial system. a statement from e. jean carroll. she won mammothicacies against trump in a civil suit for libel. this is e. jean carroll posting a picture of stormy daniels with one word, justice, and then two exclamation points. on the other side from trump and his supporters, of course, the response has been quite opposite. trump himself again called the trial rigged asked a disgrace,

called the judge corrupt, nothing new there. but then trump allies followed suit as if they've been bought wholesale to do so. quote, calling the trial a politically motivated sham. she promised, quote, donald trump will be our next u.s. president. republican senator j.d. vance from ohio called the verdict, quote, an absolute miscarriage of justice and disgrace to our judicial system. republican senator tim scott from south carolina wrote, quote, absolute injustice, this erodes our justice system. from republican house speaker mike johnson a similar tact, quote, today is a shameful day in american history. he called the charges ridiculous and said, quote, this is purely political exercise, not a legal one. the weaponization of our justice system has been a hallmark of the biden administration, and the decision today is further evidence the democrats will stop at nothing to silence dissent and crush their political

opponents. congresswoman marjorie taylor greene went with the upside down american flag, a distress signal seen by the mob on january 6th and later in the yard of justice samuel alito. and the responses along those lines have just kept coming. >> has any of them said he didn't do it? >> the conviction of donald trump is bringing out allies whether ardent or performative, bringing out asprance. it's bringing out asperance to be his running mate. they've come out to support trump, which is a matter of politics, of course, and they've chosen to do so not by saying he's innocent but instead by saying that the american system of justice is a sham, is illegitimate, doing everything they can to undermine not just this verdict but our system of

government in order to do so. >> can i ask a question here? >> please. >> so it strikes me as important during the process of the trial particularly the president of the united states to not weigh in it. i think that's a correct thing. and i understand the posture of democrats to say when the case being made this is a fundamentally bipartisan exercise of the case and verdict to stay away. let's imagine you're running for state rep, jen psaki, and your opponent gets convicted of 34 felonies in the summer before the campaign, you think you maybe do a campaign event about it? you do a press conference, have your surrogates out. right now we have a bizarre situation in which the entire republican party is running around all day saying this is rigged, and largely democrats are saying rule of law.

like your opponent got convicted of 34 felonies. it's okay, guys. >> conviction, it's done. >> you can go talk about that. you can go do something with that. i feel like i'm losing my mind watching the reaction here because there's this learned helplessness where everyone has rushed to conclude this won't matter. everyone has rushed past to say it won't matter. the biden reporters talking off-the-record saying it won't matter. if you're talking about it that way i imagine it won't. >> it doesn't change the fact the american people face a simple reality, there's only way to keep trump away at the ballot box. >> that statement you read is for the spokesperson for the counsel's office. >> that i agree. >> the campaign statement, i

think who they're speaking to here is the democratic party and the base to say, hey, guys, don't go out there and celebrate, this is still going to be an extremely close race, and there's a lot of things we need to battle over. what i think is happening in strategy meetings with the president right now is a discussion what he's going to say when asked. and i don't think he's going to say, yeah, i'm running against a convicted felon. that's not his style nor do i think he should say that because i think it feeds into the politicization others accuse him of. they see debate as a big moment not necessarily to battle over legal cases but battle over things not litigated out there, and for them they don't want the legal cases to be the base of it campaign. >> take a win where you have

one. i'm not saying they should go out and say to democrats let's go celebrate today, but just like donald trump seconds after the verdict, he's booed out there with a fund-raising screen -- >> but the biden campaign is fund-raising, too. the campaign is fund-raising and doing all that, so in some ways they're politicizing it as well. they'll all probably raise record amounts of money. i will just predict that over this. i do think in this moment everybody is covering for hours the fact that trump was just convicted on 34 felony counts. they need to decide what they do tomorrow and the next day. i don't think -- i think it's the right decision for them not to be out there with the president giving a speech or big statement or anything like that in this moment. >> you say you don't imagine him saying you're a convicted felon because you think that's bringing politics. >> i think that's not his style. i think they have to figure out what his style is going to be authentic coming out of his mouth. >> he called him a 6-year-old, i bet he could call him a felon.

>> he might. my point is they've got to figure out what's authentic coming out of his mouth that calls this out at the debate and calls him out when he answers questions. >> i think how about this moment be a street fight and say to the american people this is what this man was just convicted of. it was john bolton today, trump's former nsa advisor who said the republican party now has one last chance to change course and not nominate a convicted felon for president. like to me those are stronger fighting words than we're seeing from democrats. today we saw huge wall street big league bill acumen starts to get closer and closer to endorsing trump. why aren't people saying to him you are the guy out there who looked to college protesters and said i would hire a college protester at my multibillion dollar hedge fund. why isn't a democrat saying to him, well, would you hire a convicted felon? where's the street fighting is the question.

>> i don't know people care he -- in general the public isn't waiting for that, but i get the street fighter thing, and i also think what they did with de niro this week was an effort to do that. when i first saw they were doing that i thought that's a little weird. i don't know what you guys thought. but when they actually did it, i thought they're injecting themselves into the story. i think there's a balance. >> i think there's a little bit of distinction between there's an litical point, which i agree with, which i don't think he was convicted on 34 counts by a jury of his peers after a six week trial is going to magically alter the political terrain. >> no. >> if you ask me as annalist. but if i think if i were working in democratic politics i would try to make it -- i think

normatively and descriptively, there's this narrow group of people, everything about trump is priced in. we all know that. but also like sometimes the politics gods give you something and maybe you do something with it and not just conclude ahead of time. >> and don't -- i mean the assumption it's not going to matter seems premature. nobody knows if it's not going to be a thing so why not talk about it? because bill acumen may not matter to everybody in america but if you make it okay for wall street or swing voters to not care about this, then it will be okay for them not to care about it. so it does matter whether they buy into this being a thing or not. >> let me say this is not on president biden -- we're also heading into an election where the democratic party and republican party are scaring off for millions of reasons. it is a republican party

decision, and every republican politician in the country should have to answer for that if democrats are playing the politics of this correctly. you never have to mention trump's name, but for the republican party to choose somebody who is a convicted felon as the namesake and leader of their party is something you should have to answer for if you are a republican running for dogcatcher because the republican party doesn't need to pick him. there's nothing determinative about his place as a nominee. they could change it. >> here's where i think this is a really important point. because i spent the entire afternoon talking to big gop donors, all these big wall street guys who in the last month or so have all sort of warmed to trump again, and they are because they know he's a completely transactional guy. and they know while the chips are down and he's embarrassed and he's desperate, which he is right now, he keeps score. and he remembers exactly who was with him when he was down. so they're going to stand up and say you're my boy, and then if he wins in six months, they're

going to call in their chips. they've got a get out of jail free pass. >> because he's so loyal. >> a year and a half ago steve schwartz, bill acman, take your pick they loved nikki haley, loved desantis and they were saying we love january 6th, everything he did. now they don't have nikki haley or ron desantis. now they're going to sheeply say we're going with trump. remember a year and a half ago you said the republican party is ready for someone else, what can we do. and this could be a moment to say really? you're going to go with this? let's talk about this person again. >> the speaker of the house called this a shameful day in american history. he's the second in line to the presidency, mike johnson. a shameful day in american history where a jury of 12 men and women that were selected through a very legitimate

process, like that's how it always works, they made this decision, and that's what he had to say. so for all the same people who were giving to the house republican re-election fund, it's a question for them, too. you're also supporting that. >> chris hayes has a guest to bring in. >> yeah, let me bring in now a democrat who's running for office, congressman adam schiff for california. he served as lead manager during donald trump's first impeachment trial. he's now running for senate in the state of california. congressman, thanks for being with us. i don't know, do we have him on sound? i did not hear his response. do we have you, congressman? >> yes, you do, chris. >> first, let me get your reaction and the first opportunity we've gotten to talk to you as someone who's been chronicling and talking about donald trump's misdeeds for years. just your reaction to the verdict today. >> well, today is a day justice caught up with donald trump, and

i do think with a democracy as stressed as ours we should take heart the system worked, that 12 ordinary americans adjudicated the guilt or innocence of a former president of the united states. that a remarkable thing, something not possible in most countries around the world. i think it's a good day for the system of justice. but, chris, the other thing that leaps out at me is this was a victory for the justice system in new york. it was not a victory for the federal justice system. as you were pointing out earlier donald trump was an unindicted coconspiratorter, coconspiratorter number 1 in an indictment on the southern district of new york based on largely these facts. the justice department said michael cohen needed to go to jail on that. it did not charge donald trump. in the case it did charge donald trump in florida, washington,

d.c., the federal judges particularly on the supreme court but also in florida have knowingly gone along with donald trump's efforts to deny justice by delaying it. it was the justice system in new york that has held him accountable. and i think people in new york should take pride their citizens were able to adjudicate the guilt or innocence of a former president of the united states. he is now in new york bean adjudicated a sexual abuser. he's been adjudicated a business fraudster. he's now a convicted felon. and someone with that kind of record is patently unfit for office. and that's my quick take away on today. >> i want to ask about the reaction of some other members of congress including the speaker of the house, mike johnson. we were just discussing it, and i'll just read it into the record calling it a shameful day in american history, the democrats cheered as they convicted -- they convicted the leader of opposition party on ridiculous charges predicated on testimony of a marred convicted

felon. it goes on and on. there has been a unanimous cry essentially from elected republicans along those lines. what do you think about the speaker of the house talking about the verdict in those terms? >> well, the only thing shameful about today is the actions of speaker johnson and so many of trump's enablers that they would for him, for the benefit of this convicted felon would teardown our justice system, would cause further discredit on the justice system. mike johnson knows better. this is just calculated desire to cling to power, and that truly is shameful. and there's just no two ways about it. every time over the last eight years where we have thought surely now republicans of good sense will reject, step away, move away, condemn, shun donald

trump this incredibly immoral, unethical, and now criminal human being, but every time they show us who they truly are, and who they truly are is people whose word, whose oath, whose devotion to the constitution means nothing compared to their desire for power. the liz cheneys, adam kinzingers stand out in such sharp relief because there's so few of them, but that is the shameful act of today. the wholesale rejection still by the republican leadership of our justice system and of our democracy. >> i want to ask you one more question on political terms. last time i checked you are a politician, a practicing one. you're currently running to be a united states senator. we were just having this discussion, i don't know you heard it, but basically it is striking to me a little bit the asymmetry and tone. so you have republicans high and low, members of the house,

members of the senate basically screaming this is an outrage, a travesty and mockery. and you have democrats by and large putting out statements saying it's good no one's above the law, we respect the verdict. the campaign put out a statement but not really playing the kind of hardball you might expect when you're running a campaign and suddenly in the middle of said campaign your opponent is found guilty of 34 felonies. how do you think about the politics of this and how to talk about it in a way that doesn't essentially denigrate the solemnity of what happened and the rule of law but doesn't shy away in a political sense? >> we have to acknowledge what history was made today, and it is solemn and it is something that ought to take our breath away. and we ought to affirm what they're attacking. what they're attacking is not just joe biden here. they're attacking the whole justice system, so we need to

defend the justice system, but we also need to go after them with a vengeance for their shimful clinging to this convicted felon. now, i think the message today may be more focused as you say on democracy worked, thank god for that. but it also has to point out the fundamental unfitness, how once again we see this is man that should never be near the levers of power again, and we should not hesitate in any way, shape, or form in pointing out to the country in the most powerful, sharp terms we can this is convicted felon. this is someone convicted of multiple felonies over hush money payments to a porn star, and this is just the first of three with three more trials to come, so i think we need to lean-in and i'm in your school,

chris, if we say this doesn't matter, it's not going to matter to people. i think it will matter to people. won't matter to those who donald trump says would support him if he shot someone in the street, but that is not most americans. i do not believe most americans want a convicted felon as a president of the united states. nor do they want someone who is so fundamentally indecent, unlawful, has such scorn for everything the country stands for. >> congressman adam schiff, thank you very much, appreciate it. >> congressman schiff there putting -- i mean basically like laying out here's the things that are written at the top of your to-do list. it's in two columns. one of them is defend the justice system. and one of them is go after them like crazy for clinging to this convicted felon as the leader of their party and their movement. right. do those two things. >> he just said a sentence so comical. think about it. he said i do not believe most

americans want a convicted felon as a president. well, it's like, well, that's a hot take. what do i think? we'll find out, but, yes, i think that's a fair assessment. >> i think most people don't like to the eat poison. let's start there. let's move on. but, yeah, what he's saying, though, as elementary as it sounds, you are rightfully pointing out, chris, is not what we have by and large heard from democrats today. and they have been erring on the side of reticence and calm as republicanscuse of them going crazy and looking for people dancing in the streets. those are the messages coming out of this that makes sense not just for joe biden running against donald trump but for every democrat running against every republican in every race in the country. >> it may also be phases here because tonight -- today, right, was the announcement of the verdict, right? and they are letting the republicans go crazy out there

and the defense of the institution and solemnity of the moment. what does that pivot look like and how do you balance those two things, which will also get tricky. >> we also need to get real what defending the just system means. >> his is an important point because, yes, a majority of americans don't want to hire a convicted felon. however, lots of those americans at this point have been convinced, well, maybe this conviction doesn't count. >> just like the 2020 election doesn't count. >> and that is an issue because lots of people can rationalize it and say, well, it wasn't a good trial. and that's a problem where our system has been undermined over and over, and it's eating away -- >> and that's the importance of defending the prosecutor, the judge. do not let donald trump suggest this really is a kangaroo court,

that this isn't a viable verdict, this is somehow, you know, a process that didn't have integrity. >> if the republican party is allowed and succeeds at waging war on the american system because of this case, because of this defendant, because of his criminal liability, do you think that they uphold the legitimacy of the legal system for all other cases and all other defendants? no. if they tear it down and they're allowed to physically intimidate the people in the system and get the american people to not accept the legitimacy of this court's finding because it's their guy who's been targeted by it, that's the end. that's it. it doesn't come back for other people if it goes away for trump. >> there also have been essentially explicitly, sometimess implicitly, trump in his own way, explicitly saying we're calling this a weaponized political prosecution of a political foe. we will do that when we have power, this sort of look what

you made me do. >> except a year and a half ago in a brooklyn courtroom when one of donald trump's longest time business associates and confidants, tom barrack, was on trial for using his relationship with the president of the united states to get favors for the ua. he was acquitted. republican are conveniently forgetting that saying it's impossible for donald trump, for a republican in new york -- tom barrack, i cannot think of someone closer to him personally and professionally. he was the head of the inauguration committee, he was acquitted a year and a half ago. >> if these criticisms of the legal system are not in good faith, what are they? they are an effort to get rid of the american system of government and change it fundamentally so we have a strong mantle of government and the legal system is only used to effectuate things the leader

wants. >> and the values you just outlined i think is where joe biden is going to be the most comfortable. he's going to have some way of calling out donald trump. i don't think he knows what it is yet. i don't think they know what it is yet, but i also think this message and its defense of our systems and democracy, everyone says it doesn't matter and people care about it, but it does matter. i think it's figuring out for him how you make that argument, because to the sliver of people who show up in the polls who are trump supporters who say i might reconsider, right, they're not the kangaroo court people. they're the people who might find that message of values and democracy appealing. so it's like hitting that sweet spot, even though, believe me, it feels much better to go out there and be like he's a convicted felon but it might not be the most effective message. >> we'll continue our coverage of the conviction of donald trump and all it means after this short break. stay with us. l it means after

this short break stay with us

only purple's gel flex grid passes the raw egg test. no other mattress cradles your body and simultaneously supports your spine. memory foam doesn't come close. get your best sleep guaranteed. save up to $800 during our memorial day sale. visit purple.com or a store near you

a slow network is no network for business. that's why more choose comcast business. and now, we're introducing ultimate speed for business —our fastest plans yet. we're up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds... at no additional cost. it's ultimate speed for ultimate business. don't miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today!

welcome back to our ongoing special coverage today in new york. a jury unanimously found former president donald trump guilty on all 34 felony counts with which he was charged by the manhattan district attorney. now, the manhattan d.a. announced these 34 felony counts against trump last year, april 2023. by august defendant trump was also facing a pair of federal indictments and the big rico indictment in fulton county, georgia, as well for a total of 91 charges if you add them all. now this conviction for

candidate trump for 2024 has been an open and evolving question with the public. there was polling in november at "the new york times" and siena college that suggested if trump were convicted and sentenced in any one of these cases, a significant number of trump voters in swing states would switch their support from trump to biden, about 6 points overall, certainly enough to cost trump a close election. an exit polling from the early stages of the republican presidential nomination. anywhere from 3 in 10 to 4 in 10 voters in iowa, new hampshire, south carolina said trump being convicted would mean he was not fit to serve as president. that was january, february of this year. around the same time a poll from bloomberg and the morning consul found more than half of registered voters saying trump would lose their vote if he were found guilty of a crime. well, now that trump has been convicted and convicted 34 times we're no longer talking about

this as a hypothetical. it's doubly important to keep in mind that polling voters about a possible future event is notoriously difficult. but because the news gods have a sense of timing, a new poll conducted in may and released today, yes, today, asked voters specifically about the hush money trial in new york, which might be the only trial, of course, to start and finish before the election. this is the new npr pbs poll released today. among overall voters a conviction might actually benefit trump by 15 points, mostly among republicans. the percentage of republican voters who said they would be less likely to vote for trump if he got convicted in the hush money trial was down to 10%. put all those things together, npr's own headline here is probably instructival.

they say, quote, trump verdict would likely move on a small number of votes. if recent elections are any indication, a small number of votes in a few key places that's all you need to change the outcome. we're talking about this in term of voters that are not necessarily persuadable voters in the traditional sense but voters whose voting behavior might be affected by a criminal conviction. >> right. as you said it's very hard to test a hypothetical, right? because on the one hand some people who said it might make it less likely this might have happened, they might be like i still like that guy so that's possible. the other piece of it very hard to measure in polls is the emotions of it, right, and what people feel about the character because some of it hard to measure is do people look at it and think there's too much baggage. or if he's doubling down four weeks from now and saying it's a screwed up system or a rigged system -- and we've got to get

rid of all the judges and he's attacking the judge and his family, are people like this is too much, i don't want to hear him talk about this anymore? it's hard to measure that because vote by emotions and how someone makes you feel. >> i think that's such an important and interesting point about how he will react to it and what that will do to his campaigning ability. because it really is a problem for him the obsessive jan 6 lost election agreement i think just as a messaging tool for persuadable voters. i think it's obviously very good for the faithful but him doing like long rifts about judge merchan on the stump i think is not that effective. even if the verdict itself doesn't move people, the degree to which he like obsesses about this publicly and consistently as his main campaign message i think is a -- >> that's where his kind of mantra of the trump years which is my grievances are your

grievances -- >> if they could do it to me. >> laura trump today was tweeting out quotes from her father-in-law saying that is way to talk about his own travails and mack them onto his supporters. >> in new york. >> catch and kill -- >> who among us. >> who among us doesn't have these schemes already lined up with david pecker? >> exactly, i am here to serve for you. but that's one way he can keep talking about it and presumably some portion of his supporters. >> i'm also just really curious at a are people aware level, just as an empirical question, not even does it move people or not. my sense is that a certain portion of the electorate was paying very close attention to this trial.

the majority of voters were not. that there's some universe of voters who didn't know that much about it and who are going to wake up tomorrow or today to the headlines -- this will be news that when you ask americans a week from now have you heard that donald trump was convicted of multiple felonies they will tell you yes. they will know that, and i'm curious what that does. we don't know. >> and there will be money spent regardless of how the biden campaign spends their money on ads, outside groups will spend. there will be a lot of money spent. i will bet on this. the other thing i think kind of like interesting to watch here in terms of what trump does or what he says, he's addicted to the adulation from his core base, right? and he knows his core base loves this retribution message and loves this message of i'm the victim, so it would require him having some discipline not to seek the adulation from the core of his base in order to talk about other issues. i thought one of the most interesting things he did today,

well all sorts of things, it was quite a day for him, but when he was returning to his apartment building, right, and he kind of turned around and lifted his fist to raise it to the cameras. >> the two fists at once -- >> it may have been a smart move for a photograph or something, but it's like he was still seeking support or clapping from people to some degree. >> i've looked into this moment for a while because it was weird, because he did the one fist and then he did the two fist and started to do that motion. >> it was a tiktok dance. >> it may be soon. he was outside trump tower and there were people outside trump tower and from our reporting -- the public facing reporting we've seen on this, it was a pretty healthy mix people who were there to give him a one finger solution saying nener nener you've just been convicted and a mix of trump supporters, too. he sort of pretended there was a big adoring crowd when most of

the people were giving him a bronx cheer or as i said a one finger salute he was sort of cheering the crowds against him knowing the crowds were pointing -- >> which was kind of fascinating and then he did it. >> and his crowds have not turned out to protest him -- >> core base loves his message no matter what. beyond that, he's surrounded by special-interest groups who are willing to ignore convictions and everything else as long as they get their thing. >> totally. >> whether it's white evangelicals, whether it's the private equity -- all they're doing is checking in, hey, am i still getting that thing i need? if i am, i'm good to go. >> but they've also got the counter example sitting in front of them with michael cohen, right, which is that you can show trump all the seek ws kissing you want, you can take to a hit to your reputation from

him. but if the transactional thing doesn't work for him in the end, it's not like he's going to standby you. >> one other aspect of this, we talked about this on the show the piece very smart which was about the way the electorate was polarizing along the lines of high trust, low trust, which is that people that signal lower levels of social trust towards their fellow americans and trust in institutions are moving right, and these are the people least likely to vote. they're sort of the outer perimeter, the most alienated, and they're a population that biden is having the most trouble with. and i do think one of the issues there is folks don't trust the system to begin with, which is that population where you're seeing in some ways the largest amount of memeraging in the polling being like, well, a jury of his peers convicted him may not be that effective, and i think that's a huge part of how everyone's taking this. >> our friend andrew weissmann,

former fbi counsel would like to jump in. am i right to advise you have a question? >> i do have a question. i have a question for jen psaki because she's always asking me questions. i'm going to flip the script. this picks up what chris was talking about, which is this was an example today of what judges say all the time about facts and law matter in a court of law. and that -- i would think is a message that seems to be joe biden's message as well because he's an institutionalist and he took office he was very much about i want to restore faith in institutions. and it's also not the case this -- this verdict didn't just appear. it's based on facts, mainly as people pointed out from loyalists to him just like the january 6th hearings. why is that not the message that they're sort of jumping on?

even if i get your point maybe not today because it's not needed, but why isn't that sort of a bigger deal? or is it they don't need to do it because for people like me who believe in facts and law, i'm already somebody they don't worry about? >> we were just talking about this a little bit. i think that will be a part of the base of the foundation of the message, right? and if you're the white house right now you're discussing not today as he mentioned this is day always because he's down in the white house where he doesn't do any public events the day the anniversary of his son's death, but tomorrow they will be discussing how should we frame this? and on every level what should karin say from the briefing room? what should the president say when they're asking the question? to your point, andrew, i think president biden's comfort space, he's an institutionalist, of course, and a defender of the rule of law and institutions, that his comfort place is going to be that. it is the defense of democracy,

defense of how our system works, the defense of the every man as alvin bragg said today who was sitting on the jury. i think for them you make a calculation on the phases and stages of it. and so tonight was more a stage 4 there's a campaign statement they put out, it was longer. that as i was saying earlier, to me i read it as more of a message to democrats out there to say, hey, guys there's still a big campaign to be fighting ahead, but they're going to have to determine what their 1,000 foot message is, but i think what you said is right in the rubric what it might sound like i would expect. >> chris, i was just hearing you talk about these high trust and low trust voters. and potentially the low trust voters who say the system doesn't work for me and what do i care, the president is focused on them. we were all sitting here in our special coverage waiting for the werd, he and vice president kamala harris were speaking to almost 1,000 african american voters in philadelphia, talking about capping insulin costs, talking about forgiving student

debt, talking about removing medical debt from credit scores, right? practical things to voters to say i am trying to improve your station in life and those are the things that matter. >> and voters who are very likely to have people they know who have brushed up against the system in ways they don't think were particularly great because the american criminal justice system is a sprawling enterprise with many tentacles and many people have different experiences of what it's like to be in that system. >> there's an inspirational side to the practical politics of joe biden, which is if there are real problems in your life and in your community the way we fix those is by making the government work for you. and we do that believing this is the way we address our grievance and you need to get the right people in office. and that sounds like small ball politics but that's democracy and the system and it's a better system to have than the alternative. 34 counts, 34 convictions.

a sneak peek at tomorrow's front pages tonight. that is just ahead. we'll be right back. tonight. that is just ahead we'll be right back. >> thank you. thank you so much. anything going on today?

our special coverage

continues tonight after a unanimous new york jury found donald trump guilty on 34 of the 34 felony charges that were brought against him in the hush money and election interference case arising from the stormy daniels scandal and the 2016 presidential election. now, as chris hayes was saying moments ago there's a lot of people in the country who haven't been paying super close attention to this case as it has unfolded, but anybody walking past a newsstand tomorrow is going to see front pages like these. we've got the print front page of "the new york times," this is what it will look like tomorrow, a huge picture of trump under one big word there, guilty. i think we have "the washington post" as well. yes, this is what the print front page of "the washington post" will look like tomorrow, trump found guilty. and i think those little icons there are indications of each of the felony counts. this is the kind of news that i think you consider to be inescapable. there's people that don't pay

attention to the news at all, but this is the sort of thing that will change our understanding of what the stakes are and the people involved in this. >> there's only so much in political news that reaches out to the outer most perimeter of people's consciousness, and it can be hard i think if you're a person who's a political news junky to put yourself in that frame of mind. i don't follow hockey and like who's going to win hockey on vp this year i'm like -- but there are people -- >> but you know the rangers. >> there are people that know a lot about that but that hasn't gotten to my little knowledge universe. this is one of those things where like the super bowl, like a presidential election, this is as big as news gets. every american will know in 24 hours the answer to the question of was he found guilty. >> and you had this conversation last night about tiktok and how it was a delivery mechanism of those people not following hockey, aka politics that

closely. a guilty verdict on "the new york times" works on tiktok. >> i also don't follow hockey at all. i know who the rangers are. >> they're playing right now. >> go rangers. is that good? >> we all do this for a living and follow every component of it. it's still a lot to follow. the things you pick up in a cloud are things like zombie case, stormy daniels, hush money, porn star. if you're a normal person living their life you're like, i don't know, that seems crazy and now it seems clear the message is simple, guilty. >> here's the reminder, this wasn't a hearing on capitol hill. 12 ordinary new yorkers, 18 if you count the alternates have spent the last five weeks in a

courtroom listening to hours and hours of testimony. they got an hour of jury instructions, went back with multiple specific questions, and they unanimously made a decision and found them guilty on 34 counts, case closed. >> our special coverage continues tonight with the latest in reactions and legal analysis after this quick break. stay with us. l analysis after this quick break. stay with us (♪♪) (♪♪) try dietary supplements from voltaren,

for healthy joints.

while this defendant may be up like any other in american