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good to be with you. i'm katy tur in new york alongside my colleagues, chris jansing and andrea mitchell, continuing our coverage of the conviction of former president donald j. trump. he spoke at trump tower this morning, the scene of the crime, but looking rather diminished and deflated. a candidate who is now also a convicted felon, facing an inflection point in his presidential run. >> and donald trump's campaign has called the verdict a rallying cry, touting a massive $34 million fundraising haul, they say, in less than 24 hours since the news break last night of the verdict. and leaning in to the enthusiasm of his loyal base. >> but we all know that in sheer numbers, the base is not enough, that the real question is what swing voters will do now that 34

felony convictions are in place. those are the folks who will decide what happens on election day. pre-verdict polls have consistently shown a significant share of independent voters would reconsider their support for trump if he were convicted of any crime. but now that he has been, let's see what happens. >> we are in unknown territory. joining us now is nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard, staff writer at the atlantic, msnbc political contributor, and author of "thank you for your servitude" mark leibovich, and political analyst, ashley parker, and former white house communications director under president obama and former communications director for the hillary for america campaign, jennifer palmieri, she's also the cohost of msnbc's "how to win 2024" podcast, and she won the many titles awards, let's start here with you, jen. >> thank you, katy. >> again, it's unknown territory. donald trump is fundraising off

of this. the campaign believes that this will work for him. >> right. >> if you are a voter who hasn't been paying attention, how does the joe biden team get at that voter, and how do they convince that voter that what happened here in new york was fair? >> so i think the president's remarks were smart today. he did not argue that donald trump should not be the -- should not be president because he was convicted of a crime. he argued that the trial was fair. that is the fight that the biden campaign wants to have for the next six weeks. we have the debate in just a few weeks. we have the sentencing on july 11th. you have the republican national convention on july 15th. in those six weeks, define this fight as being whether or not that trial was fair and if you do that, then i think you have a better shot with swing voters as saying, that trial was fair, and what donald trump is trying to do is upend our judicial system.

>> can i interrupt you for just a second. i spent quite a bit of time reading through pages and pages and pages of transcripts, so many of our correspondents are out there interviewing voters, and many of them didn't think it was fair or thought it was fair, but some of them said they thought it was fair, but not serious. and so they didn't think it should have been brought in the first place. so that's another group of possible voters, right? >> it's smart because you're not arguing that it was serious. you're just arguing that he is not accepting a really important standard in our democracy that a jury of his peers and in a trial that was conducted fairly and he had all of his rights protected, he is not willing to accept the outcome, and that is a good argument to have. >> but, jen, he also argued that the election wasn't fair, despite 63 court decisions.

he has his own reality, his own set of facts. >> alternatives. >> and if the debate is going to be fought on that basis, it's going to be very frustrating and misleading for the american people, and undermining to the rule of law, and dangerous to jurors. the judges, not just this judge, but all judges, given that people are being tracked, according to groups, and according to indices that law enforcement looked at. but then there were the lone actors. we have seen what's going to happen. >> like michael fanone's mother getting swatted the other day. >> the judge in new jersey whose son was killed. >> in my many titles, i worked with hillary clinton, i did not greet with glee or happiness. it's so weighty that a former president of the united states has been convicted of a crime

and the united states may make him president anyway, i mean, that is very frightening. and so i think that when you are -- a lot of his base is going to rally around him, i think there's a lot of swing voters, a lot of republicans that are going to be really concerned. and trump today, that was unhinged and frightening to watch. i think that they will -- i think people will react -- fair minded people will believe that this trial was fair and what he's trying to do. >> i want you to weigh in on this. what do you think of what jen said regarding the swing voters. i know you spent so much time talking to nikki haley voters. which way do you think they fall? >> i agree with jen on a lot of things. i think biden's remarks today were responsible. i think trump's remarks were utterly unsurprising. what struck me about their last

24 hours, and really what i've reacted to was not whether the jury was a surprise or not, but the continued drum beat of the republican party. one elected official after another. i think, you know, trump's -- whatever the trump sickness, whatever you want to call it is set. we have seen it for eight years. his voters are their own mysteries. what continues to me to be the most potent part of the story and the most dangerous and depressing part of the story is those who know better. it's the stream of republican elected officials, speaker of the house on down, you know, every would be vice president. it's very unseamly, and it's a drum beam. that's one thing missing from the democratic response today. beyond biden, there's been a dearth of democratic surrogates. i think a lot of outrage from republicans is manufactured to begin with. i think it's disingenuous. i think what they're doing is real damage to the fabric of the

country, and i think one of the things about what biden was saying is he was speaking as a candidate namely, but as a country, this is a very, very, i think precarious moment, which really does need some strong voices in the other direction, which i hope we will hear more from in the next few days. >> you have been covering the trump campaign nonstop for quite some time now. so what are you hearing? are voters likely to follow his lead, and believe that this trial was completely unfair, that the jury was rigged, the judge was unfair, the prosecution was unfair, and he become a hero, you know, as he becomes more of a victim, as he did with each succeeding indictment. >> right, andrea, i think mark's point is a good one. how many prominent republicans out there go and legitimize the claims that donald trump is making about the justice system that he claims was unfairly

prosecuting him that led to the verdict, despite 12 jurors in new york, 11 of whom his own defense team not questioning and challenging during the jury instructions. you can take pennsylvania as an example. there's a prominent republican on the ballot, dave mccormick, he is running for the u.s. senate seat this very november and he just three weeks ago was down at mar-a-lago for a fundraiser for donald trump. despite in 2022 him being absolutely lampooned in the primary against mehmet oz by donald trump, who said everything in the book about dave mccormick. to many folks, ultimately pennsylvania chose to go for not the republicans in pennsylvania in 2022. and by and large, you saw individuals like dave mccormick, largely sit on the sidelines. the question is in some of these battleground states, you know, in places like ads, do you see some folks that are still, you know, the likes of the karen

taylor robeson. of the mccain era, republican party, come out and defend him and legitimize these claims that undercut the integrity of the u.s. justice system and have their backs to donald trump. that is what you saw in 2022 allow for democrats to win in otherwise what should have been a good year for republicans. one they anticipate as a red wave. frankly in 2016, when voters have had the opportunity to reject trumpism, they have. and the question is this go around, donald trump has not changed his temperature or his approach or the way that, you know, coming out of what we just were inside trump tower, those 30 minutes there, he could have gone through, you know, the justice system has spoken, we're going to go through the appeals process. that's not what he said. he continued to play from the same book he has the last six years. >> what plays in the down ballot races is this time, having made the mistake, and insisted on outlying republican candidates, and particularly mitch mcconnell

and his chief ally, chose the candidates and there was an agreement and understanding with donald trump that the senate was too important to them, and that's why dave mccormick is the candidate. >> candidate quality. >> obviously the pollsters and jen knows this are very busy today, and we're going to start to get a sense over the next several days about how a broader swath of the public is reacting to this, ashley parker. i think at its core, there are lots of people who are arguing now that ultimately, maybe the most critical part of polling and reaction is really about how people feel about democracy. and the preservation of democracy and support for our criminal justice system or only as some would argue, only support democracy in the criminal justice system when you win, and i wonder as someone who keeps such a close eye and has done deep dives, including on

polling, and what you're watching for in the coming hours and days and week. >> a couple of things, i was just in wisconsin last week where i was talking to -- i spoke with more than 60 voters, just about the election in general. and it was fascinating to me that not one -- and these were voters who, like much of america, don't love either choice, and not one of them mentioned the trial, when they were talking about their concerns with donald trump. so it will be interesting to see how much this has broken through. it seems pretty clear that just about everyone is aware of yesterday's verdict. and if this will be more top of mind, as voters are looking ahead to making their decisions. and then going back to a point jen made early on, another thing i'm curious about is sort of what it says, and there's nothing that prevents a, as we are witnessing in unprecedented realtime, there's nothing that prevents a former president and convicted felon from being elected president again, i am curious about hearing from those

voters who are choosing to vote for them still, and sort of what it says about our nation. and our values, if he is elected again. >> and then what happens with donald trump if he is elected and how he utilizes the doj for his own purposes, given that he has been railing against the justice system. i want to pivot and talk about the next big event we're looking forward to and that is the debate between president biden and former president trump. david fuhrman in the atlantic argued that there's no reason for president biden to debate donald trump. it elevates him, legitimatizes him, normalizes him, how can a debate host moderator, he argues say we're going to put your attempted coup to the side and talk about grocery prices. >> right. so i think, yeah, that's something the three of you would worry about. >> it is his decision to debate. >> i think it's important that he debates. honestly i think it was good that msnbc broadcast his press

conference, trump's press conference today because people don't -- they only hear him in snippets and they don't see the full package. >> so you argue for more coverage of him? >> i think he's the republican nominee, and we know there's not trump fatigue, but trump forgetfulness. >> people knocked us in 2016 because we aired him too much. >> he's hard to wrestle with. >> he's the 15 pages of just the corrections, fact checking. >> it's useless. you can't fact check everything he says, he's a fire hose. >> people say don't run his entire speech because there are going to be so many misstatements. >> it's like all of these things are hard calls, whether or not it's hard for the campaign. i think it's really important to debate. you need to see the two of them on stage, and you need to see how trump handles all of these, you know, biden needs to point to him, roe was overturned because of you.

you are the one who is trying to upend how democracy operates by not accepting the election results, and by -- and not accepting the results of this fair trial. i believe so strongly that this is needed for people to really break on this. >> i covered the hillary clinton campaign, and by all accounts she won every debate. it didn't matter. >> it mattered even though she didn't win. >> but i want to ask you about something that came up in the trial. because the defense tried to tell 12 jurors who were human beings, they were alive during, you know, 2015, 2016, to say that "access hollywood" didn't matter, that it was not a big deal, which was their attempt to undercut the prosecutor's claim that it was such a big deal that this was the heart of the conspiracy, they couldn't stand another sex scandal.

>> trying to argue the sky wasn't blue. >> so we were in st. louis when donald trump attempted to bring all of the alleged women accusers from the past against bill clinton out and seat them in the front row of the debate to try to throw hillary clinton off her game, but she could not look out at the audience with a camera and avoid looking at some of these people, and the debate commission, unalterably damaged itself with donald trump forever by not starting the debate, holding it all up, delaying everything until they could get this resolved, get the women off to the side in a bleacher so it was not directly in her line of view. that kind of stunt was exactly -- because he was trying to change the subject. >> they agreed to do something totally different. >> what was going on behind the scenes there? >> i said to her when she arrived at the debate site, i said he did this for one reason

and one reason only, to get under your skin, and she said, yeah, i got that. the great news is it didn't work. she said, no, it didn't work. maybe she should have been more human in that moment. not in 2016. the three of you all know that would not have been accepted for a woman to be rattled. he was trying to rattled her. her test was to prove it didn't matter. biden has different tests, and i feel strongly that we need to see the two of them on stage together. >> what sort of performance do you need to see from president biden to make you believe firmly that he's got this. >> i already believe that. >> there are a lot of people out there who say if joe biden loses this election, he will not only have ruined his legacy but there will be anger and vitriol that he didn't step in, that he wasn't the bridge that he promised he would be, alluded that he would be for this term, that it was one term, and he was going to elevate the fresh voices, the new voices of the

democratic party. >> if he loses, there will be a lot of vitriol, anger. that's what's so scary and sobering about yesterday, but i do believe, i mean, i have a lot of confidence in him. i have a lot of confidence in his team. you know, the polls right now. i do, you know, this could influence it or at least with enough of former republicans to make a difference, but also part of the reason why they're not doing well in polls is because the people who pay attention to the news are already for biden and the people who don't are hard to reach, and that takes time. america may be in a different place. it may be too late to save ourselves and biden might win. it won't be because biden wasn't up to it and the team didn't have a good plan. i'm humble about this. >> if biden wins, does the threat to democracy go away? >> no, of course not, we're in the it, man. who knew that's what we're fighting about the next 50 years. >> i think the lesson from this

conversation is it's always best to be at the table. mark leibovich, ashley parker, thank you so much for joining us. love to see you in person as soon as possible. vaughn hillyard, you too. jen, you're sticking around, again, at the table. still ahead, with sentencing on july 11th and the republican national convention days later, what will the judge consider when he makes his decision. plus, the attorney for stormy daniels is joining us. what stormy is saying now that 34 convictions have been secured in a case that revolved right around her. evolved right arounder h (man) every time i nea new phone, i had to switch carriers... (roommate) i told him...at verizon, everyone can get that iphone 15 on them. (man) now that i got a huge storage and battery upgrade... i'm officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon

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donald trump's lawyers have exactly 13 days to file the next motions in court. that's when they have to file their sentencing memo. telling the court what punishments they think fit the crime or what should be off the table for donald trump. joining us now, former federal prosecutor and fbi general counsel, andrew weissmann, and back with us, former white house communications director, jen palmieri. what does judge merchan have to decide, legally. clearly they're going to ask for probation. what does the prosecutor do? does he go for jail time, and what does the judge decide? does he decide the nation is so divided that in a gerald ford moment, i want to try not to put a sentence of imprisonment on this man, even though with the

gag order violations that occurred today, over and over again, against the court and the justice system and the jury system, he would be warranted? >> so what the judge does is complicated. what the state does, i think, is in some ways, less complicated, and i think is going to be fodder for people in jen's line of work. i think there will be -- it will be quite the sort of listing of all of the factors that make this crime and make this defendant serious. the judge is going to be thinking about precedent, and what has been done in other cases and how to treat him comparably to people who have committed this crime and assessing, you know, treating likes alike is the rule of law, and as we all know from having been in the courtroom, we know that is what judge merchan is going to be thinking about.

but there is a litany of crimes that can be listed in terms of what he has done. starting with the trump organization case where there was a criminal conviction that judge merchan presided over. the fraud case, the civil fraud case. there's this case, obviously. there's the gag order violations of which there were ten of them. there's the lack of remorse. i mean, there's just, you can go on and on. >> i'm assuming he can't consider the outstanding indictments in the other three. >> he can consider those. >> there has to been evidentiary basis. you can't just say he did it. how much they're willing to go forward with that, there may be reasons they don't want to, but they can bring in, for instance, the obstructive conduct that was -- there's evidence in this case, related to mr. costello

but they can relate it to the florida case where there's two types of obstruction. there was obstruction in tens of scenarios in the mueller investigation. all of that is fair game, and it's up to the judge to decide how much of that he thinks is useful or not useful. on the other side, the judge is going to be thinking it's an e felony, the lowest level felony in new york. it is a first time offender. so those are all sort of factors on one side. i do think one thing that will weigh on him is that the complete, not just lack of contrition, but fomenting a complete disrespect for the rule of law and the whole idea that you can commit a crime with impunity, and that he's not just doing it for himself, he's saying that to everyone in the same way that he was the leader of the -- not just the alleged

conspiracy, he is now been found to be the leader of the conspiracy that was found by the jury beyond a reasonable doubt. that is a factor that that is definitely to be considered, and then as we have been talking about the fact that somebody who has participated in this very crime went to jail in part for this and did three years. and that person, which is michael cohen, pled guilty and cooperated. those things give you a lesser sentence. i think when you think about that, and sort of is he being treated competently, i think the michael cohen situation is going to weigh heavily, and it will also be something that there will be increased attention because the political side of this will see two very different submissions and there will be a finding by judge merchan on all of that. >> i hate asking the political question when we're talking

about legal matters. in a perfect world, you want them to be separate. the law is a law. you fought the law and you lost, you're going and getting your sentence and whatever happens is the law. but we don't live in that world. we're not in that moment. it's a presidential campaign cycle, politically, jen, help him or hurt him to be put in jail? what do you want if you're joe biden? >> i don't know. i mean, going to jail seems -- i mean, that just seems to raise all of the stakes, and i don't feel like this is a situation that needs to get amped up anymore. but we have no way of knowing, you know. >> are you feeling like you're understanding more the gerald ford position, the pardoning of nixon. >> i have always been sympathetic to that. is andrew not? >> he's got to consider that, doesn't he? >> how do you answer to the country? does he have to answer that?

>> i don't think he does. let's say i'm sympathetic to that view, how do you answer, let's assume the hypothetical where michael cohen was sentenced, just assume all he did was this crime, and he was sentenced to jail for three years, and he pled guilty and cooperated and is accepting what he did. how do you explains to the public why somebody who is more cullable, far more culpable for whom the crime was done and solicited all sorts of people, how do you explain why the leader doesn't go to jail. and then let's say, would you take the same position, let's assume the january 6th case went to trial and he was found guilty of that, and hundreds of people are jail, does he not go to jail? >> and also the president of the united states saying that what we saw was that the system works. >> right. >> i mean, i think this is a time, it's hard to predict what

the politics would be but it's a time where, politics doesn't really matter because the judge will make that decision, and i think what, for biden what you want, probably, is to be able to defend it as in keeping with the standards that would apply to anyone else, which what you laid out, andrew, is jail. >> given the timing and the timing of the debate and all, how complicated is this for joe biden in terms of how to handle this issue going into a debate? >> what do they say about it in the debate, yeah? >> the debate is before the sentencing. i think that does help, but then i think no one is above the law. you were held accountable and you're using that to make the argument to the american people that this was a fair trial, and he -- this is another example of him -- >> and this is up to the judge. >> that's absolutely up to the judge because that's how this

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for two days, stormy daniels, took the stand to testify about her alleged fair with donald trump, as a candidate and president, trump denied he ever had a sexual relationship with her. he called her a con job, said she was washed up, that she had a low iq and a liar. but now with trump found guilty on all counts, it appears at least 12 jurors believed her. joining us now is stormy daniels attorney, clark brewster. stormy daniels had a tough time on the stand. the questioning got ugly. >> yeah, i think the cross-examination was pretty aggressive with her, but she dealt with it very openly and directly. i mean, she is a very strong,

smart careful thinking woman, frankly. she's been pretty impressive. i have represented her now for five years, and i've seen her in a lot of circumstances. >> how is she feeling today? >> we talked today. the suddenness, actually, of that verdict and how it came down rocked her last night. she was actually pretty emotional about it when we talked with feelings of empathy on one hand but also all the things he did since that time, and condemning her. >> empathy for him. >> yeah, she did. >> what did she say about him? >> she said that the fact that he's convicted really kind of caught her even although we expected it, off guard, and it was just maybe the realization of the finality and what she's been through hit her as well. but there was a bit of empathy. >> i think, you know, katy's right, she took a lot of harsh questioning, but she's used to people judging her harshly and

speaking to her harshly. her whole life people who saw the documentary on her know what the perceptions of her are. but i thought it was really interesting what michael cohen said about her last night on our air, and i want to play that for you. >> okay. >> what do you make of what she -- of her role in this case? >> she's unflappable. it's interesting, you know, people discount her because of her profession. it bothered me a lot. oh, the porn star this, what they were trying to do is discredit her in the eyes of the jury. in fact, once again, i think it was a very poor decision by todd blanche or susan necheles or who they had because couldn't have a guy saying that, but they would go out and say the same things. i think it was a very poor decision to go after her. people don't know, unless you've ahead her book, she's actually wickedly smart. i think she graduated valedictorian of her high school class.

she's much smarter than they are. >> does she feel vindicated today? >> well, i think the fact that she spent two days on the stand and answered all the questions to allow people to make a decision independently of what she might tell them to think resulted in her getting credibility and feeling that the truth came out. so, yeah, i would say she feels vindicated. >> she said on the stand that if guilty, she wanted him to go to jail. do you think she still believes that way? >> i think a lot of the things she said about that stem from the attack upon her that she saw daily. i mean, physical threats, things like that. and the fact that he was so harsh and critical of her appearance and her intellect and so, you know, that spurred some of that, but i think take that away as person to person, i don't know if she would say i want him to go to jail. >> we know there's going to be an appeal. we heard todd blanche say that

already, and of course in any case like this, you would expect an appeal, but there are a lot of folks who say we'll focus at least in part on stormy daniels' testimony, that it was too graphic, too much was let in. what would you say to that? >> there was a point in time if you were in the courtroom where judge merchan called up the defense and said, why aren't you objecting. and there was two or three occasions during her testimony without an objection for the defense where he said, sustained. he interposed the objection for them. >> do you think they were trying to set up an appeal? >> no, you can't appeal something you don't preserve the record on. if you don't object and the answer comes in, you don't move to strike, even after that, you have waived, essentially, any affiliation. >> why didn't they? >> judge merchan was surprised. i was actually surprised because some of the answers were, you know, from leading questions, and i thought there was some answers that should have been objected to or questions that should have been objected to based upon what my understanding of the rule in limine was on the

evidentiary matters before she took the stand. if you don't object, there's no appeal issue. >> in summation, the prosecutor said stormy daniels was the motive, you know, that that was the motive. that's what made him want to create this conspiracy that they were alleging. so she was central to it, but did she have doubts about testifying, saying that public role? >> that's a really good question because i think that's the very reason the prosecution wanted to put her on. you might recall the grand jury returned, grand jury indictment without her testifying. she had never testified in this matter. my question is why do you want to put her on. i think the prosecution wanted to show how motivated trump would have been with regard to her tour deforce as a witness or as a person. he called that right. >> we have to go, but i do want to ask you because you mentioned it in the break, donald trump will have an opportunity at the sentencing to stand up. >> that's right. >> in his own defense.

what are you looking for or expecting? >> at sentencing, one of the most treasured, protected rights a defendant has is what they call the allocution, that's where you stand before the judge and say, judge, what i have done is wrong, i understand. and goes and tells the court why punishment shouldn't be as harsh as what a judge might othewise. he's condemned, and accused. i don't think that will work well in the allocution. we'll see what happens. >> thank you so much. up next, what the biden campaign is going to do to try to seize the momentum in the wake of donald trump's conviction. the campaign's communications director is joining us after a quick break. director is joining us after a quicbrk eak. (dad) we never thought that with verizon, saving on the the best in entertainment was gonna be so easy before... we had to pretend we had seen all these shows... now that we have verizon, we can stop pretending. (vo) disney+, hulu, espn+, netflix and max. all for just $20/mo. only on verizon. (mom) my turn. ( ♪ ♪ )

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saving on the the best in entertainment was gonna be so easy before... we had to pretend we had seen all these shows... now that we have verizon, we can stop pretending. (vo) disney+, hulu, espn+, netflix and max. all for just $20/mo. only on verizon. (mom) my turn. we are continuing our special coverage of donald trump's conviction in the new york hush money trial with more on how the guilty verdict will impact the 2024 race in battleground states. i want to bring in nbc's david noriega who's in washoe county, nevada, a purple county in a very purple state. i know, david, you have been speaking to voters there. so what are they telling you? >> reporter: yeah, chris, so what i'm hearing pretty consistently from people across the spectrum, people who like trump, people who don't like trump, people who are on the fence, the facts of the case and verdict don't really change their perception of donald trump, the persona of donald

trump that they have known about for years, and as a result, it's not really moving the needle for people one way or the other. that said, i did meet one person at the post office in reno who said he was at the post office specifically to register to vote for donald trump directly as a result of the verdict. he said he's doing that because he himself was convicted of a felony some years ago, spent some years in prison in california, he knows what the criminal justice does to people and he doesn't like it. i want to play a clip of an interview with him, and some clips with other voters as well. take a look. >> after last night, after what happened to mr. trump, you know, i don't think that was fair. so i'm going ahead to register to vote. i think it's time to vote and set the record straight. >> just kind of more cemented my opinion about the guy. like, everything that came out in the verdict didn't surprise me at all. it just sounded like things he would do. >> i have been a trump supporters since 2016, voted for him twice, planning on voting

for him again. yesterday cemented that fact to me. >> i'm leaning towards the democratic party to get votes away from donald trump. i think donald trump is a terrible idea for this country. >> reporter: you know, it's not clear what kind of effect this is going to have on the numbers in november. it could be somewhat unpredictable. if it is going to have an effect. it's going to be in places like washoe county, very purple, very narrow margins, this is where we're going to see this actually potentially move the needle. we don't know which way. >> interesting, the last guy with the libertarian logo on his shirt. we know donald trump got not a great welcome at the libertarian convention the other way. david noriega, thank you very much. and earlier we heard president biden address donald trump's conviction, saying his opponent is posing a danger to the justice system. >> the american principle that no one is above the law was reaffirmed. donald trump was given every opportunity to defend himself. it was a state case, not a

federal case. and it was heard by a jury of 12 citizens, 12 americans, 12 people like you. >> joining us now, michael tyler, communications director for the biden/harris campaign. michael, it's really good to have you. bring us behind the scenes. tell us how the campaign came to the decision to have donald trump address this issue head on today. the president has been wary of addressing it in the past, and then what the strategy is for the future. >> well, thank you so much for having me. i think it's important to take a step back. i think yesterday demonstrated that nobody is above the law. i think today what we have in front of us is that two things are true. donald trump is a convicted felon, but he's also going to be the republican nominee for president of the united states. and so what the president is focused on, what this campaign is focused on is making sure that we ensure the one way to prevent donald trump from ever stepping back into the oval

office. we know that to be at the ballot box. and so that's what we're going to continue to be relentlessly focused on for the next 12 months, what the president talked about was the fundamental stakes. you saw donald trump give an unhinged deranged press conference where he's up there fighting for himself, tearing down the fabric of our judicial institutions, and you saw the president stand up for the rule of law. i think that's a fundamental contrast that the american people are going to see over the course of the next five months. they're going to see somebody in donald trump who's fighting for himself, whether it's his own personal grievances or the work that he's trying to recreate an economy that serves rich folks like himself or continues attacks on fundamental rights and freedoms in going to stand contrast to president biden, who's going to be fighting for working people across the country. we're confident if we continue to present that progress, the american people are going to continue to side with joe biden. >> michael r, i think it's fair

to say that supporters of joe biden will have watched the press conference by donald trump today and will agree with you and say that he seemed unhinged. having said that, you may have heard some of those voters. what happened yesterday in a manhattan courtroom has not really changed them except maybe for the guy who felt now he's going to go register to vote and he's going to vote for donald trump. we've been talking to voters all across battleground states. and one after another after another, no one is surprised by anything that was revealed in that courtroom. so, to what extent does the biden/harris campaign look at all of this, including the conviction of 34 counts, and say, it's baked in, this is not going to move the needle? or do you disagree with that premise? >> i think nobody is surprised. it's a confirmation of who donald trump is as a person. i think what the campaign understands is we are existing the in a very calcified electorate. this is going to be a very close

and competitive election, as all modern presidential campaigns are. >> so, do you move voters by talking about the fact that the opponent is a convicted felon? >> well, listen, i think there's going to be no doubt that donald trump's base, the maga base, stays with him. i think the problem that donald trump has with, when you take everything into account, yesterday's news, his entire record as president of the united states, the increasingly divisive, extreme, and chaotic rhetoric that you hear from him out on the stump when he does step onto the stump these days, is at odds with the vast majority of the american people. the american people do not want somebody who is focused on their own personal grievances. they don't want somebody who's bragging about the role they played in overturning roe v. wade. they don't want somebody promising to exact revenge on political enemies. they don't want somebody who's only going to give tax breaks and handouts to billionaires and

wealthy corporations. every issue that is going to decide this election, the american people are siding with joe biden. this campaign is going to ensure the american people understand everything that's at stake in this election. that's what our focus is going to be. >> are you concerned this is going to energize is maga base and maybe bring some others in? i mean, they've got a fundraising record, they say of $34 million, just in the 24 hours after the verdict. they say that people are really rallying to them. we've seen that happen before with the indictments, excessive indictments. some people telling our reporters, you know, this is not a big deal because it is baked and they expect this from donald trump. and frankly, in -- county, where our reporter just was reporting from, jacky rosen, the democratic senate candidate is running ahead of joe biden in the polls. you can't really afford to lose nevada. >> no, listen, again, i think there's no doubt that donald trump's base is going to stay with him. as i said earlier, the vast

majority of the american people are not with donald trump and his base. but the fact of the matter is that it takes work for us to make sure that everybody makes up and locks in on this election. and that's what the folks of this campaign is going. to the vast majority of the american people, who see and understand the unique, persistent, and growing threat that donald trump poses to the american people and to our democracy, the time is now to go to joebiden.com to sign up, to get involved, to knock doors, to make calls to ensure we're doing everything in our power to make sure the chaos agent that is donald trump never returns to power. that's what the work of this campaign is going to be over the course of this summer and the lead-up to the fall when people begin voting in september during the early voting period. and we're going to make sure that the american people fundamentally understand the stakes of this election. we're confident that if we do all that work throughout this summer, the american people are going to continue to side with joe biden. >> michael, i'm sure you got

under the cross tabs of the nbc news polling recently. it found people who follow newspapers, watch broadcast television, who consume digital news from, you know, news websites and whatnot, like joe biden more than they like donald trump. but joe biden is underwater significantly among people who get their news on social media. so, how is the campaign trying to find those voters and address those concerns? >> yeah. it's a good question. you're absolutely right. for the folks who are paying the most attention to the stakes of this election right now, they continue to side with joe biden. the work that this campaign is focused on is making sure that we address the information gap, that we are penetrating into the media consumption habits of folks who are not tuning in to politics right now. the american people have a lot on their minds. they're living their lives, and they're not necessarily, in may, tuning in to the presidential election. so, the work that this campaign is doing right now is specifically targeted towards reaching voters where they are.

that's why our paid media advertising right now is reflective of that. we're doing things like running ads during the nba playoffs, for example, right? making sure they're reaching people where they're already trying to consume things they're doing. >> we're not talking about social media, michael. i'm talking about social media, where people are seeing clips of joe biden stumbling or clips of joe biden forgetting things or getting mixed up. how do you address that issue? >> it's reflective across all of our platforms and all of our efforts. i encourage people to go to biden, hadq and see the con feint we continue to push. >> you're talking about meeting voters, and you're telling them to go somewhere to meet you. are you going to get on tiktok? are you going to get on instagram? how are you going to address the issue that the clips of joe biden are not strong on those platforms? >> that's exactly what we're doing. we're making sure we're working with influencers so that we're not only hitting people with their own message, that we're hitting people with trusted

messengers who they relate to and understand the stakes at the election, not only the threat that trump poses, but the work that joe biden has done to improve their lives. the work that we're doing this summer is making sure that we're continuing to expand and deepen our organizing capacity on the ground actually in communities, working with small businesses so that we're doing not just visibility but actually uses small businesses as staging locations, for example, for a lot of our door knock and phone banking opportunities. you have to make sure you're meeting voters not just on digital platforms, but you actually have to be out in the community. and that's the work this campaign is doing throughout the summer of 2024 and the lead-up to the crucial fall months. >> michael tyler, really good to have you. thank you for joining us today. >> thank you. >> thanks, michael. and a big thanks to everyone who joined us for -- >> can you believe it? >> -- this marathon day, another four-hour day for all of us. it's been a pleasure being with all you ladies. it's been wild. donald trump convicted, 34

felony counts. >> and we survived. >> so far. >> honestly, couldn't have done it better people than the two of you, and our guests. unbelievable people who have gotten us through this entire period. >> and the conversations on a complicated issue. that's going to do it for us today at "deadline white house." it will be with you after a very quick break. don't go anywhere. quick break. don't go anywhere. ..at verizon, everyone can get that iphone 15 on them. (man) now that i got a huge storage and battery upgrade... i'm officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon with so many choices on booking.com there are so many tina feys i could be. so i hired body doubles to help me out. splurgy tina loves a hotel near rodeo drive. oh tina! wild tina booked a farm stay to ride this horse. glenn close?! with millions of possibilities you can book whoever you want to be. that's my line!

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