tonight on "the reidout" -- >> this is a scam. it's a rigged trial. it shouldn't have been in that venue. we shouldn't have had that judge. >> it's reckless. it's dangerous. it's irresponsible. for anyone to say this was rigged, just because they don't like the verdict. >> a stark split screen today as donald trump lashed out about his 34 felony convictions, while president joe biden defended the american justice system. plus, the unhinged republican response. they want to tear the whole system down and punish everyone involved. because that's what authoritarians do. >> but we begin tonight with the man nicknamed teflon don, and no, i'm not talking about the mafia boss of the gambino crime family. i'm speaking about donald trump. but like gotti, trump has a history of not only skirting the law but always finding a way to evade any serious accountability

for his actions, despite being constantly under legal scrutiny. trump used his wealth and fame to make his own rules. it was that fame enhanced even more by the hit show "the apprentice" that not only put him in a position to have sexual relations with adult film star stormy daniels in 2006 while his third wife melania was at home looking after his fifth child, but which also helped him secure the nomination for president in 2016. it was the same special rules for the rich and famous that shortly after the 2016 convention, always caused his nomination to nearly crash and burn. >> i'm automatically attracted to beautiful. kissing them, like a magnet. i don't even wait. when you're a star, they let you do it. grab them by the [ bleep ]. >> following inrelease of the "access hollywood" tape, there were those in his own party trying to distance themselves from him with drawing enforcements and calling for him

to step down as the nominee. at the same time, trump was also facing the r-emergence of stormy daniels who wanted to go public about their sexual encounter and that's when he entered into the scheme to keep her quiet by paying her off and illegally hiding the payoff in his business records in order to save his campaign. which of course is a crime. yet, as we all witnessed in real time, he not only survived those dueling crises, but was actually elected president. it was just another example of a life lived without facing accountability. but just like john gotti, it appears trump's luck has finally run out in the form of 12 new york jurors who yesterday found him guilty on all 34 counts against him in his election interference trial. making him the first former u.s. president to be convicted of a felony. trump has vowed to appeal the verdict. as of now, he'll have to return to that manhattan courtroom in

six weeks on july 11th to face judge juan merchan again and receive punishment for his crimes. punishment that could see him sentenced to up to four years in prison. four days after his sentencing, trump is once again scheduled to attend a republican national convention where he's expected to accept the party's nomination to be their presidential candidate. the question is, will trump once again be able to weather the storm and continue his reign as the don of the once grand old party? joining me is reverend al sharpton, president of the national action network and host of "politics nation." katie phang, trial attorney and host of the katie phang show. and catherine christian, msnbc legal analyst, and former manhattan assistant district attorney. thank you all for being here. i'm excited to have this panel here because i want to talk about the actual abcs of what trump is going to go through. before i do that, i have to ask the person who knows trump the

best, you know him, how do you think he's feeling today? >> i think he is very, very much in shock. and i think that he is very depressed. you must know, donald trump always had this complex that his father thought he couldn't rise to being what a successful business person. he is now tonight a convicted felon, someone that is on the brink of financial disaster, after tish james was able to secure a civil case against him. and one who always prayed the race line. we just had a tape come out because a guy during the course of his nda where he couldn't talk about things. he came out and verified that he used the n-word during the "the apprentice." i have kwame jackson on the show tomorrow night with the central park five. >> i bet -- i mean, does it hit different that it's a black d.a. and a black woman who got him with tish james. >> black d.a. in manhattan, with

alvin bragg. black tish james got him. black prosecutor in atlanta. black woman judge in washington. and if he appeals he has five black women on the appellate court here in new york. he's going from the central pack five to the appellate court five. so i mean, this is going to be the story of his life. >> to say nothing of juan merchan, who has to go back and he's disrespected that judge a lot. that's the guy who's going to sentence him. well, this is why they don't want dei. they would like this diversity to exist because it changes things. it makes law a little more fair and broad. i want to talk about this because a lot of black and brown people have gone through the system and been convicted of a crime and walk through a process that trump will now get to walk through as well. talk about the process. he's now been convicted. he has a sentencing date of july 11. what happens between now and then? >> he has to speak to a probation officer. >> watch them be black, too. watch it be a black woman.

>> many of them in manhattan are people of color. and he has to be interviewed, because that's part of the investigation, the probation department does for a presentence report which will be given to the court, the defense, and the prosecutor. it's confidential so we'll not be, unless -- >> we'll never know who they are. >> yes, and that will form some of the basis of how the judge will sentence him. in new york, the judges have a lot of discretion to use whatever factors they think are relevant to sentencing. mitigating and aggravating. i think there are really only two mitigating factors in donald trump's favor. he's 77, and he has no criminal convictions. that's it. >> yet. >> yeah. but what you're going to hear the prosecutor say, and they're probably going to put in the sentencing memo, the civil fraud, not conviction, but it was a judgment. you'll hear about the sexual abuse judgment, the defamation, two of them judgment.

trump university, you're going to hear all of those bad acts, along with three pending indictments. yes, they're not convictions, he's still innocent, but you're going to hear about that. you're going to hear about the violations of the gag order, including the violations of the gag order in the civil fraud case. you're going to hear about the constant, you know, talking about being a rigged case. obviously, there's no remorse. and also, i would, if i were the prosecutor, talk about how those politicians, the speaker of the house and the senate were there, probably at the behest of the defendant on trial. outside of the courthouse, when a pending case is going on. so those are all of the aggravating factors that you're going to hear the prosecutors are going to say why he should be sentenced to whatever they are, i don't know whether alvin bragg is going to ask for incarceration. but you'll hear the judge repeat it, whatever he sentenced donald trump to. >> what could he ask for? a lot of people, this is sort of

the conversation in the real world. people can't see him being sentenced to four years in prison. even though michael cohen did get 30 months in prison, but okay, for the same crime. what can he get? are we talking about him picking up trash by the side of the road, him getting home confinement? that's what happened to marilyn mosby, 12 months of home confinement for taking her own money out of her own savings. what could he get? >> probation, house arrest, which is home confinement, prison. i mean, it runs the gamut. i think that's what we need to see happen. i kind of want to back pedal for a second to what you were saying and then the setup, joy, because the dam is breaking. and what bothers me, and this is something that catherine and i have dealt with as prosecutors, donald trump didn't have to go and sit in a jail cell waiting for his awaynement for any of these cases unlike anybody else would, unlike any of the people we prosecuted. so far, he hasn't spend any time

in a jail cell for multiple repeated violations of the gag order, which other people would have been incarcerated by now. i'm curious to see what judge merchan does in this instance because anybody with 34 felony convictions, even though they're concurrent sentencing on each of them and he could get up to four years, i don't know if they would get as much of a consideration of the practical implications of the united states secret service, et cetera. the privilege, this is what bothers me the most about this case specifically. we talked about this last night on the panel. i keep calling the original sin the 2015 trump tower meeting. but for the hiding of what happened, could he have made it to the oval? because the privilege that he got from the oval continues with him now. the conversations we have about the secret service not being able to put him in jail for violating the gag order. what do you do? you park them outside of the jail cell. i'm a little frustrated he continues to get the benefit of the office that i think he stole

to be able to get in. >> right, and the thing is that, you know, he keeps trying to say that justice is rigged against him. i mean, rev, you have funeralized people for whom the justice system's meting out of justice meant shooting them before they were arrested for anything. i think of sean bell who was coming out of his own wedding party. the justice system for him said you hit the ground dead in front of your wedding ceremony. the idea this justice system, that he's just like these black rappers that have 260 murder counts they're waiting for. oh, no, if you get convicted, you're going to sit in jail. you're not going to be treated like him. yet he's trying to make himself the equivalent of people of color who have been subjected to the system. >> and we keep going along with it. i think we have got city him as he is today. a felon. i mean, people keep talking about it's a week or two before the republican convention, when he gets sentenced. what about ten days before -- >> itser four days.

>> what about ten days before he debates biden. i ran for president, i did many debates. if i was debating him that night, if i was joe biden, the first thing i would ask him, did your parole officer allow you to come down for the debate. that's how we have to start talking about it. i think katie's point is right. when he stole that election, because i will say stole because had we known all of this, i don't know whether he would have beat hillary clinton. >> that's right. >> what it means to people watching us is we wouldn't have had those three justices that assured that affirmative action was gone, that voting rights were hurt and women's right to choosz was gone. it was decisive for all of us that he went in in '16 and he went in under false pretenses. >> here's an idea what joe biden should say. here's what he said about donald trump. >> if hillary clinton were to be elected, it would create an unprecedented and protracted

constitutional crisis. >> if she were to win this election, it would create a unprecedented constitutional crisis. in that situation, we could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial. >> her current scandals and controversies will continue throughout her presidency. and will make it virtually impossible for her to govern. >> katie phang, if he is sentenced and he's got an ankle bracelet on and has to see his probation officer, does he still get national security briefings? >> apparently he will. >> would he still be able to go overseas and travel? there are countries. about 37 countries where if you're a felon, you cannot get a visa. he would, of course, i'm sure, they would allow him to get a visa to travel as our president.

>> i can't believe i'm going to say this. the probation president would have to get permission from his probation officer to travel outside of the jurisdiction. >> to travel for us. >> to get out of the county where he's on probation. it's not even overseas. if you want to go to another county, you have to go to your probation officer. >> to travel the country of which you're commander and chief. >> that's why it's worthwhile to go down the path because it emphasizes the absurdity of what we're going to face if you put him back in the oval office. >> can he stop this process? is there a way that he could appeal, he's going to appeal, and somehow get that appeal out of the state of new york and get it to his friends on the supreme court where we know that alito and thomas and the other four will save him? >> it's so funny, i was speaking about this with appellate lawyers and we were saying not legally. but if you have six friends on the supreme court and let's say maybe three of them are better friends than the other three, you know, what will he do? will he assuming he got

re-elected, will he try to pardon himself? and of course, you'll say you can't do that. >> he'll say yes you can. >> yes, you can, and what will the state have to do, and we're talking about georgia and manhattan. they'll have to go where? to federal court. and then how do you get to the supreme court, by going through federal. we were thinking of all of the machinations that could happen. assuming he gets elected. >> and that would bring us right back to what you said, rev. and what you said. stealing the white house inoculated him and made him above the law because he had six people on the supreme court who will always rule in his favor. >> and that is the threat to our whole country. and people need to think about that. that's why i have been saying to people since the conviction was announced yesterday. don't gloat, vote. we have nothing that we can do to stop him from or make him go to the big house, but we can stop him from going to the white

house. >> i'm going to leave it there. >> waiting for the supreme court immunity ruling too. >> we know how that's going to go. >> if he wasn't in the oval, he would never be able to say that. >> he could have never stolen the classified documents. he couldn't have done any of it had he not stolen the election. the hero of the day, stormy daniels for speaking out and causing him to trigger himself and commit a crime that makes him a felon. reverend sharpton, katie phang, catherine christian, thank you all very much. check out "politics nation" where reverend al sharpton has big guests this weekend including exonerating central park five member yusef salaam. this is exactly the person i want to talk to. also, former trump lawyer michael cohen. i'm going to come sit in the studio during rev's show because this is literally the people i want to hear from. thank you, rev. up next on "the reidout" -- maga world's response to trump's guilty verdict is, yes, just as

unhinged as you would expect. before we go to the break, responsed to the verdict in arizona. >> i think this is going to help trump because the people who were undecided and more middle of the road probably see this as a political persecution. >> i think it's such a close election, this could throw the electorate in a different direction. you know, people may not want to elect a convicted felon. oooh! i can't wait for this family getaway! shingles doesn't care. shingles is a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. ahhh, there's nothing like a day out with friends. that's nice, but shingles doesn't care! 99% of adults 50 years or older already have the virus that causes shingles inside them, and it can reactivate at any time.

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you won't be surprised by the republican meltdown over donald trump's conviction, but you do have a right to remain disappointed since the former supposed party of law and order has spun the historic guilty verdict into a series of talking points to make the maga faithful believe it was a rigged system, attacking judge juan merchan, whining the jury was made up of liberals and the charges were somehow orchestrated by president biden. they're weaponizing the guilty verdict rendered by a jury of 12 regular everyday systems which is how the system is supposed to work, into a tear it all down attack to further undermine trust in the courts and the justice system. with no sense of irony being he remains in defiance of the subpoena of the january 6th committee, today, jim jordan's weaponization committee demanded manhattan d.a. alvin bragg testify next month. and trump's sycophants have gone on the offensive with rnc

talking points in hand. >> we have to be willing to fight back. we need to be subpoenaing judge merchan and his daughter. if they do this, if they turn the american system of justice into banana republic garbage, they're doing to suffer consequences for it. >> this was political smear job, an attack job. this is what you see in banana republics. >> democrats have crossed the line. a line in which now the court system is a political weapon and it's going to be very hard for it not to come back the other way. >> worth noting that jd, ted, and marco are all lawyers. they're all echoing trump's rhetoric of retribution. he spent his first full day convicted of 34 felony counts calling the trial a hoax and claiming on social media that, quote, if they can do it to me, they can do it to you. there's an easy way to do that. just to not commit crimes like he did. there is a special place in

humiliation hell for the debasement of some of trump's most desperate wanna be replacements for hang mike pence. >> it's not going to last long because what happened in new york is a travesty of justice. everybody knows it. >> i can't believe the hoax, the sham, this absolute injustice, justice system. weaponizing the justice system of the united states of america against a political opponent. un-american. joe biden, you're fired. >> my god. i will not -- ooh, lord. i will not hold my breath for republicans' peak outrage on monday when hunter biden goes to trial for gun charges, the ones brought against the president's son by a holdover trump appointee. joining me is denver riggleman, former senior adviser to the january 6th select committee. denver. what happened to the party of law and order? i thought they believed in the law and the order. >> i don't -- i gotta tell you,

i'm almost speechless sometimes when i see talking point. i know how they're disseminated. it comes out of the w.h.i.p. team, out of the rnc, disseminated to all their congressional members. you have heard banana republic and travesty. i don't know if they knew those words before the talking points came out. i have heard that over and over again. sometimes when i see this, i like to bring a different angle. i almost feel like this is the gimp olympics. everybody, the talking points are really about who could be the gimp in the basement for trump. i have never seen such self debasement from people. think about ted cruz. he said he was heartbroken and furious. i wonder, did he feel that way when trump actually destroyed his wife or tried to, implied she was grotesque and ugly, and talked about his dad as somebody who killed jfk, was he heartbroken and furious then? i find it amazing. i have never seen such a suckling group of individuals than those that are out there right now. >> i don't think anyone can beat

nikki haley who said nobody would ever want to vote for a convicted felon. and now she is. i mean, they're all taking the knee, and in a way, as you said, it also refutes their former talking points, because they did say that the biggest issue, the two biggest issues were immigration and migrants illegally crossing the border, ie crime, and crime. crime in new york city, crime in chicago, crime, crime, crime. but now they're saying, oh, but hold on a second. we meant crime like other people, not donald trump. he can commit crime. crime is fine when he crimes. >> i think that's why, you know, as somebody who was in the gop and somebody who really is sort of -- i do like law and order. i sort of like the court system that works. i like law enforcement that stopped people from doing bad things. i think that's what americans sort of expect. to have people say they're law and order and do what they're doing now, especially the nikki haleys, the bill barrs. we talked about ted cruz, jd

vance. i'm wondering who else is going to come out and say they're going to vote for them after they said they never would. because it's about politics over people. that's how these individuals are wired. they just want to win. it's about fund-raising and polling. they don't care about the citizenry. i'm to a point where, joy, maga i think is a big sow, a big female pig. everybody is belly crawling for the teat right now, and everybody is trying to climb over each other to subjugate themselves to donald trump and go to mar-a-lago to say hey, i have been blessed by this guy who is a convicted felon and who wanted to pay off a porn star and tried to hide it to influence an election. i just, again, it's mind boggling. it's mind blowing. i hope people get out and vote. i hope they vote for actual law and order. >> bill ackman and all the wall street guys who would never hire a convicted guy to work in their wall street firms are lining up for trump because he's promising them goodies. you have people, nbc news reporting, that the right is now already trying to dox these

jurors, trying to uncover their identities so they can set them up for harassment. i didn't know people used truth social other than trump, writing may god strike them dead. we will on november 5th and they will pay. this is what they're writing about these jurors. you have already the mother of michael fanone being swatted. these people didn't have the courage to even stand up to this man. they went for his mama. this is what they're doing. at this point, they're not even -- i don't know if you can call this bullying. this is, it's damn near terrorism. >> it's punks directed to violence. i think when we're looking at the jurors there needs to be a protection mechanism. i started my new company to protect individuals like this. i have people on my board who want to do tech for good. with the jurors, even election workers in 2024, what happened to michael fanone's mom, and people know i know michael fanone. i talked to michael and things

of this nature. they're punks, incels, idiots and at this point, i think maybe independents and democrats need to be a lot tougher. they're talking about bringing a fight. they're talking about there's violence on multiple social media platforms being talked about against individuals because of this trump verdict against democrats or independents or people that are anti-trump or the jurors themselves. it's time for people to step up, and if you're with somebody in a place who is talking ridiculousness, it's time to confront these individuals. i have used to word compassionate confrontation, sometimes you have to be damn confrontational when people ask this way. >> amen. you know how you know they don't have the confidence and the confidence in their ideas to even believe themselves they can win an election, and you know how you know it's bs that trump's conviction helps him in november, which is another one of their talking points? because they wouldn't do all of that if they thought that they were just going to win on the

merits. if they really believed their ideas were going to get them through and trump's greatness as president and he did such a great job killing 1 million people with covid and everybody wants four more years, they wouldn't have to threaten you to put him back in. they would understand and believe he would naturally come back in. that's how none of us in the media should listen to them when they say this conviction helps trump, because they don't even believe it. because they're already threatening you. that's how you know that what they're saying is bs. denver riggleman, we love you come through and keep it real. thank you, my friend. much appreciated. up next, our favorite historian, michael beschloss, on this very unprecedented week. the first time a former president has been convicted of a felony. and before we go to break, more reaction to trump's guilty verdict. this time, from a voter in georgia. >> i think it just goes to show that our systems of law and government have proven that they apply to everyone and not just people that can't afford a lawyer. i mean, he had all the money in

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we are now in uncharted territory. the former president of the united states now convicted of a felony, is facing a july 11th sentencing hearing that comes just after the first presidential debate and just four days before the start of

the republican national convention. and don't forget, trump still faces charges in georgia, and federal charges in florida and washington, d.c. the jury's verdict yesterday was front page news not just here in the u.s., the world focus was also fixed on that manhattan courthouse. with trump's historic guilty verdict splashed across newspapers around the globe. in the midst of such an historic moment, there is no one better to talk to than our friend, nbc news presidential historian michael beschloss. michael, i'm just going to let you talk. >> okay. first of all, it's a gift to be with you always. but especially at the end of this week, which seems like, what, five years, ten years since monday. longest week we have lived through for a very long time. >> yes. >> but here's -- what makes donald trump different? well, you and i could probably come up with a list of about 3,000 things.

but i think what occurs to both of us tonight is of all the presidents in the united states, there is exactly one who is a convicted felon. and that is donald trump. and he may be convicted of other things. but even if he's not, just as important as this, not only is he someone who has run afoul of our legal system, but he's denounced it. he insults it. he says it's rotten. he says it's rigged. and how can a president of the united states or an aspiring one, do that? he's supposedly if he's elected going to take an oath of office in january to protect and defend the constitution, meaning our rule of law. how can he do that when he's said the whole structure of our legal system is crooked and people should disobey it. that's not what any president has ever done. >> exactly. i want people to think about this pragmatically. this would be the person who would nominate judges, who has said this judge is a criminal

and should be in jail, and who wants to drag his daughter into court, into a gulag. this person would then have the opportunity to nominate the person who would head the justice department. but he's said that this is a rigged legal system in the united states. he doesn't believe in it. but he would head the justice department. he will dismantle all of those things because he says he doesn't believe in them. this person would have to have a probation officer's permission to travel as the president of the united states. he would have to have his probation officer's permission to leave washington, d.c. or new york, to leave new york. he would have the nuclear secrets and would get classified briefings. no other felon could get that. i can't. >> no. i can't either. >> how would the world even react, do you think, to a felonious american president? >> well, it puts the country in the sewer, frankly. because one thing that america has always done is we have tried

to at least aspire to be better. always aspire to be more ethical, bring our democracy to other countries. so what does it say that our president walks in, convicted felon, you know, figuratively, not literally, but figuratively chained to that parole officer or probation officer. that is not america, but the center of america, as you and i think would agree, we have a system of laws. it's never perfect, but it's a system that has to be respected. there can always be peaceful protest. you don't have to love every verdict. some verdicts are wrong. but you have to respect the system or else it's anarchy. what donald trump is saying is elect me and i'm going to bring you both dictatorship and anarchy. lots of luck. >> i have to do one fun thing with you. every time you're here, i have to do it. july 11 is a very special day in our history. >> it is.

>> okay, tell me what it is. you already know. >> it is the 200th anniversary of the duel between aaron burr and alexander hamilton. in new jersey, right across the water from manhattan. there's the plaque, and you can look across and maybe even see the peak of trump tower, although trump tower is so much shorter than its namesake claims that it is, that i don't think you can see it in the skyline. but the point is that i think we would say that here are two days that mark how far we have come. the way i would put it, joy, is that the founders wanted us to elect a president of conviction, but not criminal convictions. >> and absolutely. and the only other president who faced even this possibility was richard nixon and you said, i heard you earlier on "today" saying he had the dignity to walk away. it's hard to say anything nice about richard nixon but in the end, he was a greater patriot on

any given day of the week that trump is all week long. >> by far. he tried to taint our democracy, but for instance, at the beginning of watergate, april 30th of 1973, he gave a tv speech in which he talked about the judge that was sending some of his people ultimately to prison, he calls him a courageous judge. he praises theiary. he praises the prosecutors. and he says to americans, this is so interesting, we must have faith in our legal system because that is the essence of america. it's exactly the diametrical opposite of donald trump and donald trump is the only one in american history of all these presidents who has ever basically insulted our system and the way we do that. >> michael beschloss, the unstumpable, he got the july 11 right on the nose. it is both trump sentencing day and aaron burr and alexander

hamilton day. >> i was sweating joy, thank you. >> you know i can't stop you. >> now you can study. >> i'm just encouraging you. >> you are. you're just encouraging me. don't threaten me with a good time. >> you have been so great this week. have a wonderful weekend. be well. >> up next, the political landscape after trump's guilty verdict with biden addressing it for the first time today. we'll be right back. an for lea—- the permanent gutter solution that protects your home in so many ways, it takes more than one chris to explain it. but together, i think we've got the job covered. like leaffilter's has your gutters covered. protecting you from getting up on this thing to clean out your gutters ever again. and you know how else leaffilter protects your home? with our lifetime transferable no clogs warranty. we'd be glad to come out for a free no-hassle inspection. to schedule your free inspection, call 833-leaffilter today or visit leaffilter.com what if we don't get down in time call 833-leaffilter today to get a birthday gift for zoe? don't panic. with etsy we can find the perfect gift,

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the american principle that no one is above the law was reaffirmed. donald trump was given every opportunity to defend himself. it was a state case, not a federal case. it was heard by a jury of 12 citizens, 12 americans, 12 people like you. >> president biden kept his comments about donald trump brief before pivoting to a surprise announcement about the gaza strip. saying israel has proposed a three-part plan that would ultimately lead to a permanent cease-fire in the region. the plan's first phase would start with six weeks of a full and complete cease-fire. including the withdrawal of israeli forces from populated areas of gaza. biden said that israel and hamas would negotiate a permanent cease-fire and admitted there could be major hurdles. the second stage would involve the release of all living hostages in exchange for palestinians imprisoned in

israel. the final phase would be the start of a major reconstruction plan in gaza and the return of the remains of deceased hostages to their families. biden also said this plan has been relaid to hamas via qatar, and declared hamas is no longer capable of carrying out a major attack of the october 7th style on israel. hamas has since responded to the speech saying in a statement that they view the proposal, quote, positively. joining me now is democratic strategist and msnbc legal analyst basil smikle jr., and eugene robinson. columnist for "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst. let me keep it real and tell you what the reaction that i think a lot of people had when they saw biden take to the podium and the entire speech was not throwing major shade about donald trump being a convicted felon. this is matthew iglesias summarizing it. i always say when your opponent is convicted of felonies you have to do everything possible

to shift the national conversation back to your worst issue. something that divides your supporters and anything you say will make people mad. that was the response, and i think that was the fear, and i think in talking to a few people afterwards, that have said they have been speaking to folks in the administration, that they feel like he wouldn't have done it if this wasn't really real. what are the risks of veering off of what donald trump is going through, just politically, for his campaign? >> listen, what we saw with joe biden talking about israel is something that presidents do generally very, very well. which is talk about foreign policy. a lot of people don't vote on it these days, but it's one of the most presidential things that a president could do, is talk about this country's leadership in the world. >> but this year, people might vote on it, and against biden. >> what's interesting, and i say as this country gets more diverse, people are paying more attention to what's happening abroad and it does infect local politics but in this very specific instance, given what we have seen with donald trump,

what joe biden is essentially doing is saying look, do you want leadership here and throughout the world, or do you want another four years of chaos and convictions? let's get with good governance. >> here's the problem, eugene. a lot of his base, whenever he speaks about gaza, it just makes people who are lightly in his favor angry. so there's a huge burden on him now that this better be real. that netanyahu better not back stab him, it better hold up because look, if biden were to be a part of securing an actual deal that ended this hell in gaza, it would help him politically, but it's got to be real. how much do you believe it's real? >> well, >> well, i have met in netanyahu. i have known him for some time. so, can he be trusted?

can you know whether this is real or not? i don't think you can. it could be that netanyahu feels threatened and quartered by the demands of his coalition partner who has threatened to pull out, who wants to call for new elections. elections are very bad for netanyahu. he can go to jail. so, i say there is a slightly better chance than usual that he would actually be serious about this. of course, the devil is in the details. there are always details, and i am sure there are some details about what is real is proposing, that hamas will not like. and those would have to be aired out. so it was a risk for biden to so fully embrace this plan. but i do think that the strategy of not going all in on

convicted felon donald trump was probably right. the old saying, when your opponent is self-destructing, don't interrupt him. >> but he kind of interrupted him! >> well, did he really, though? because trump came out today and that has maga worlds all in a twist. i don't really think that was an interruption. he was looking presidential and doing presidential things. i thought that might've been the right decision. >> all right, i was wrong on this one. but let us talk about the strategy as regards to the former president. i can only imagine what republicans would do with a democratic presidential nominee who was convicted of a felony.

even one felony, let alone 34 accounts. is hanging back and not gloating over what trump has done smart? >> you don't want to gloat. what you want to do is step into the moment. what i mean by that is yes, we have heard the cacophony of republican leaders doing their talking points and sound bites trying to defend donald trump. it is pathetic. but what i am also focused on are all of those vulnerable republicans in those purple districts who have to find a way to not only figure out how to defend the convicted felon, but defended the convicted felon who pushed for rolling back roe v wade. how are they going to do that? >> and who also sexually abused a woman and defamed her. >> they have to find a way to do that which actually gives them a good opportunity to try to bring some of those seats back to democrats. because they are in a really, really vulnerable position. >> what do you expect biden to do with the debate?

the sentencing is sandwiched between the debate and him even getting the nomination, which is weird timing. >> i know, it is just crazy. that is the opportunity. that is the moment when biden will not be able to avoid going after, i mean, the convicted felon is going to come up in the debate. i think that is his moment to attack that issue, however he decides to attack it. in the meantime, there are plenty of surrogates out there who can be plenty snarky, and that were for him. >> all right, we shall see. apparently robert de niro is available. they need to get him on a case. don't go anywhere, hazel and eugene are going to stick around. they will tell us who they think won the week on this very historic week. we will be right back. ed gutte.

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trump lost big in court that many other won on this historic week. talk with us to say who they think won the week are basil michaels and eugene robinson. what, no music? eugene robinson, who won the week? >> alvin bragg. your member how they dogged him when he was refusing the conviction, whom he vindicated, wrong. 34 felony convictions. i think the brother knew what

he was doing. >> okay, let's see who basil think one of the week. >> absolutely. i have been saying that a black man won, celebrate that. for all the reasons eugene said. because 70 people were doing the media rounds, talking about how inept he was and that he wasn't going to be able to get it done. my 1a is the jury. we have to actually think the folks that sat there and watch this, listen to this in that period of time. and knowing that they might eventually be targeted. >> my answer is he's leaving, leaving all that midnight train to georgia. i also say alvin bragg. we agree. these are the pips. thank you, basil michaels, eugene robinson. that's it, the reidout . we all agreed. this is very rare, i think we should mark the occasion.