thank you for watching, on that note i wish you all a very good and a very safe night from all of our colleagues across the networks of nbc news, thanks for staying up late. see you at the end of your monday. hello, covering this first conviction of a former president in american history. thursday may 30th, 2024 is now etched in all of our collective experiences. the day a jury found donald trump guilty.

the day a man who spent his life outrunning lawsuits from fellow citizens, civil cases from government officials, regulatory probes, federal probes, congressional inquiries, a record breaking two impeachments in one presidential term, a historic rico charge and two federal, in all of those cases over many years that included all kinds of evidence of wrong doing, found that he could not outrun a jury of his peers. after two days and more than nine hours of deliberation, they unanimously found him guilty. on all counts as you know by now. a former president convicted of felony crimes for the first time in our nation's history. the news broke, we will be revisiting that tonight and going forward with some very special guests and new information but this is a time if there ever were a time to slow down in our fast paced lives in the way our media

including yes television and internet media rushes forward to the next thing and next thing and the next iteration of the thing and the implication of the thing. this is a time to absorb what we just went through. it was not so long ago, may 30th etched into legal precedent. into law books that will be read and studied for decades to come. into history books that will try to understand why this took so long in some sense and then why it happened and then what will be happening after it which is our collective future. and it will certainly be written about and studied in whatever mechanisms they use, video, hologram, tiktok you name it. but in the decades ahead in the political tomes about this new chapter in a long running question that outdates democracies but is at the core of any rule of law democracy which is this clash between

power, who gets it. how we hand it out and accountability which is always tested more in how we deal with the powerful rather than everybody else. so i say that as a bit of an opening. i hope it's not too grandiose but a big picture thought and right now we're going to turn to something we've prepared for you to begin tonight. to begin this special and that is. how we all went through this from when it first started to break on that day i mentioned thursday may 30th. we have a verdict in the criminal trial of the donald trump. >> we are looking at count one guilty, count two, guilty, count three, guilty. >> breaking news, donald trump found guilty on at least five, five of the 34 charges so far. >> that just stopped me in my tracks. tell me what just happened. >> actually there's an

eruption. >> guilt on 1 through 5. >> trump is not above the law. >> it's accountability. it's exactly what america needs right now. we need for accountability to be had by all those that break the law. >> those jurors were chosen by both sides. >> yes. >> count 20, guilty, count 21, guilty, count 22, guilty. >> i think we can feel proud that the system of justice and the rule of law within liberal democracy has survived. >> count 33, and 34 guilty. found guilty on all 34 felony counts. >> the breaking news, donald trump guilty in the so called hush money criminal trial. >> in the historic conviction of former president donald trump. >> the first former president of the united states convicted on criminal charges. >> it took a jury a little less than 10 hours to find mr. trump guilty on all 34 counts. >> the test for us now as a country is whether or not this

former president and his allies will have succeeded in trying to under mine the rule of law so that people reject this as a legitimate function of the rule of law in our country. >>s that is the rule of law, 34 counts. the defendant looked more down. more than usual than we've watched him. i've been an eyewitness in that courtroom. he definitely looked like it registered to him even though he's a well known performer when he committed the courtroom. in lower manhattan there's a mixed mood as people gathered in relatively small crowds throughout the process. there were more people with the signs of lock him up, jump suits and others. the rule of law did hold. that's more unusual than the commentary. the verdict front page news all over the world.

we might forget sometimes how many people around the world are following this. sometimes closer than some of our fellow citizens, belgium, brazil, portugal, spain, the uk, that's just some of those assorted headlines i'm showing you. front pages galore. front page guilty is how the paper in washington put it. the wall street journey owned by fox news is news corp., trump convicted. no way to spin the basic fact. the l.a. times trump guilty on all counts. in miami, a city in where the former president now recides florida. the new yorker, known to come with a quick thoughtful cartoonish spin. showing the possibility of this president and his cartoon hands, potentially handcuffs although sentencing we'll wait for july. in new york where the tabloids have long danced with this

figure. guilty and guilt. and two of them in the new york post, one of the only papers going farther as i mentioned than the wall street your journal, instead of beginning with the facts they started with a tick. as quote injustice. the small queens daily eagle went with an old school way to put it, queens man, convicted. that queens man is just that, a man, a person. a citizen, he has rights as a convict. just as he had rights as a defendant. he's expected to appeal. they're saying they're going to do that. as for the president who replaced donald trump, he's also speaking out. he rarely does on this topic but now that there is a verdict. he spoke about it for the first time. >> i just want to say a few words about what happened yesterday in new york city. >> the american principle that no one is above the law was

reaffirmed. >> reaffirmed and reaffirmed again something that some of the optimists and politicians didn't acknowledge as much. that of these four different indicts three have been affectively punted, delayed to not get to the public or to a jury by the election. it does not matter if sometimes there are some delays the election does matter when the crimes in question involve a cue to overthrow the government, a rico charge for a related crime to overturn the election. and the other one, a crime for the original electoral college of donald trump. we can't always do justice to history but we can slow down a bit and feel something has just happened. how do you take this in?

>> i was at the university of delaware. and jordan kleper was there. the comedian. he came on stage. everybody had that advanced notice but it was like punches. one and two, three, four. and because there's advanced notice everyone kind of leaned forward like the rest of the country to find out what was going to happen next and it's devastating. former president trump is now in this ivory tower of guilty of 34 counts as he has to wheel into the republican conviction. there's nobody that gets hit by

felonies that feels okay about that. jurors now have to be fearful. so it's again the aauthoritarian tactics of trump to intimidate everybody that doesn't agree with his will. that's going to look like in history that this is the time the beginning of the end of donald trump in the sense of, this isn't two impeachments. these are peers in 24 americans, we can't trust our jury system in this country. we can't get behind that then there's no american democracy. i think biden will say a few things but just let trump kind of melt on this. >> molly, i want to show part of how this is playing out. there's different ways people absorb things. we have the 34th street subway station there. that's 34, but matches the counts guilty. there were new yorkers, this is where the jury occurred chalking it up. i think it speaks to the

clarity. legally we can say molly that you know there's different levels but 34 and 0 is a lot. this is one of those memes you can see why donald trump is being prosecuted, because he committed crimes. and you can go back to the cave drawings. this is game of thrones and now the sneaker now equipped with the ankle bracelet you sometimes see on house arrest. finally the dad jokes are there as well. 34 counts. >> look, you know, this is a person who has evaded accountability his entire life. and what i thought biden did which was quite smart, right now we have a moment in american history where one party believes in democracy. and another party really has embraced an autocrat. so what biden did which i

thought was a good move, biden said the law is the law for everyone. this was a jury of his peers. this was a case brought by the d. a. this was you know, we saw his witnesses, we saw the lawyer you know do everything that's supposed to happen in a courthouse. and in the end, they found donald trump guilty. and trump's lawyer todd blanch did i think have a client who directed him to do a lot of things which may not have helped you know, trump always thinks that defendant, that candidate trump helps defendant trump and i think yet again we have seen that candidate trump is not helpful for defendant trump. but you know, trump has really mashed these things together. the legal system. his quest for power. his quest to stay in office. and i thought biden did a good job of getting in there and getting back out. >> we also had douglas his imagine here of folks embracing here, excited about this because for some people this is

a big moment yesterday. that was outside and of course you have your j day memories. >> you realize that people were just watching each time trump's almost busted on something. and it doesn't happen and it doesn't happen. so i think expectations were kind of low. like it could be a hung jury. so when this came over, it really hit people in a very, very profound way. i know there's a consensus. because the republicans have

coalesced. people have been pushing for this to happen over and over. there's people who wonder how did he get away with it. >> he didn't get away with this. that's why at the end of the day we're talking about whether they request jail and how he deals with that and that hangs over him and he's going to have to keep thinking about that. anything that guts up close to the convention, he has tried to delay every case as possible. he's the one that had it collide with the campaign season as much as anybody else. the history of mcarthurism, other challenges we've had. you can ask anyone from the marginalized community. how the justice system works. i appreciate you kicking us off on our special. i want to remind people what's coming up. bob woodward is our special guest tonight.

he has not done many interviews recently. he's not one to speak out much during an open news story in our trial, but he's our special guest here tonight. you will hear from bob woodward, the water gate icon on now the first president to have this level of legal problems in a conviction that nixon never got because of his pardon. pardon.

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welcome book, we have the legendary pulitzer winner on our show. with rachel and nicole and the whole team and michael cohen and that is just a slightly deeper look at how we got here in this case versus all the others. there was nothing inevitable about this. federal prosecutors in the southern district did involve themselves with part of this case. of course they prosecuted cohen. they declined to file any trump charges from that case. the first manhattan da probed these charges for years and didn't make a move one way or the other. didn't make a declanation that's when you say it's over and didn't charge. just kind of left office leaving it pending. there was criticism for that understandingly. leon brag had to come into that gray area. he took over, the indictment was at that time considered unlikely. indeed you lived through this. you may remember given january

6 and the classified documents case and all the energy around those things because it was all heating up. there wasn't necessarily a view that this 2015 related campaign crime should go first or go at all. then when the d.a. filed charges there were many who down played them. >> at least in my judgment of all the cases, this is the weakest one substantively. >> this is a very weak case. >> this is the wrong case at the wrong time. as a matter of law. these charges are the weakest. >> chances of a unanimous conviction are like 10 to 15%. >> i think your analysis is spot on. at this point i think the odds of a hung jury are high. >> i think the case is in many ways stale at this junctionture. >> this trial is very weak and the details are very weak. >> i don't think there's anyone in america who thinks this is a seriously strong case.

>> brown is now sweating even more than usual. his pathetically weak case against former president trump has totally imploded. >> we're taurbging about a case that my office reviewed two years ago and said no thanks, we pass, we're talking about a case that. >> the case involving bragg is the weakest criminal case i've seen in my 20 years of practicing criminal law. >> the case was actually strong enough to win against all prior precedent because nobody has ever gone this far against the former president. it was constructed in a way to move to get to a jury unlike the other cases. it is worth hearing all these views. indeed if you do journalism you're going to talk to both sides and more. so you're going to get differing views. i'm just showing that to remind you, that there were legal experts who were all but

discussing this as a case going nowhere. it's now the only case to hit a jury. and as you know to convict defendant trump. bragg was clearly not detestified. he spoke often, he avoided the press, he kept his cards close to the vest when he did his interviews including when we were able to speak to him on the beat. >> less than two weeks before the presidential election, michael cohen wired $130,000 to stormy daniel's lawyer. that payment was to hide damaging information from the voting public. the scheme violated new york election law. >> the investigation is ongoing. this is one chapter. i caution people against reading ahead. >> but the work continues, the work never stops. >> i did my job, we did our job. many voices out there. the only voice that matters is the voice of the jury and the jury has spoken. >> fact check, true.

in our system, when there are criminal prosecutions it is only the jury that matters not the criticism although we're all free to debate it in public. and not even the d.a. all those this d.a. has proven himself quite effective. the only one to win against donald trump. that's a look at hue we got here. coming up, on this edition of the beat, we're looking at journalist bob woodward my special guest, next. magic. new ultra foamy magic eraser.

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i gotta get this deal... i know... faster wifi and savings? ...i don't want to miss that. that's amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? this conviction of donald trump on all 34 counts is history. it's the kind of breaking news that everybody witnesses together. and if you didn't watch it live through television or internet, the moments later you look back on it and you start discussing it. it's just one of those moments. so we thought we would be remiss to not actually beyond all the other things we covered actually see on more than one channel just in those first few

moments, live or relive exactly how the first draft of history played out before the nation. >> this is an nbc news special report. >> the verdict has been reached in former president donald trump's new york criminal trial. >> we are looking at count one, guilty. count two, guilty. count three, guilty. >> there are guilty verdicts from our producer inside we're hearing guilty on 1 through 5. 1 through 12, 14, 15, guilty. >> count 16. donald trump found guilty. 16 out of 16 when it comes to falsifying records. >> some cheer, some boos as we're now getting the information. 18 counts, 19 guilty. >> i'm being told the former president has been found guilty of counts 20 through 23 found

guilty as well. >> count 23 guilty. count 24 guilty. count 25 guilty. count 26 guilty. count 27 we're seeing that on screen, guilty. count 28 guilty. those are the first 28 felony counts here as read by the jury. count 29 guilty. count 30 guilty. count 31 guilty. count 32 guilty. count 33 and 34 guilty. that is donald j. trump found guilty on all 34 felony counts. >> that is how the news broke. we're joined by pulitzer prize winner bob woodward for report

i ng on the watergate scandal. and he interviewed president trump 20 times. and he's also the author of 20 other books and also interviewed former presidents. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> your thoughts on the verdict. >> well you know i've obviously been thinking about this and i think, what's so important is the criminal conviction but also there's a sub text to all of this. and that is, it has shattered the camouflaged world in life that trump has. i mean, it is a body blow to that and when i did these interviews with him in 2020, the last year of his presidency, i should have brought the audio of it but, but this is a selection.

trump comes on and he says, i have a reputation for not being willing to apologize. it's wrong, i will apologize if i'm wrong. i asked when is the last time you apologized. trump, oh i don't know. but i think over a period, i would apologize. here's the thing, i'm never wrong. now that's part of the camouflage. the clubbiness of we know better. we joke about these things. the dagger has been put in this with this indictment and conviction. and just today, this morning, he's talking, and this is again the way he deals with the

reality. this morning he talks about violent crime in new york city. he said, at all levels, it's awful. it's nobody's ever seen it this bad. now the facts are, back in 1990 there were 2,200 murders a year. it's down 83%. all crime is down. but in this cavalier way, you know, it's not that way. well he is wrong. and i think we're going to see the evaporation of that camouflage that he's been living in. and that's the other side of this. we're going to see and we saw it this morning, he actually prepared a series of untruths

to try to defend himself. and i know him very well having done three books and spending the last year of his presidency talking to him. and this is a man who's lost his footing. and in a sense he's lost his cover of that clubbiness. >> we have times in our history where there's an ebb and flow of whether systems and the government leadership institutions are seen as working or not. and as i mentioned you've covered and lived through much of that in your career. do you see this as a potential return to that? there was so much hand wringing over how to put a former president on trial, whether it would be fair. and i said this before the verdict, regardless of what it was we were going to honor it and the rule of law that there were people on the jury who said they watched fox news.

they get their main information from trump's truth social. and yet we came together and we got a verdict under the rule of law. is that ultimately a good thing and a possible way forward? >> certainly. and i was really surprised. i didn't think that. >> you were surprised, interesting. >> that they would be able to, wait a minute. i said the verdict is in. i couldn't believe it. i was sure there would be people on that jury who were trump supporters and we know the trump rule is you don't have to deal with facts. you just, kind of do your own thing. and for them to come in and do this, i think it's a change in the whole spirit of the times. and i think not only does trump have to deal with that, but i

think this country has to deal with that. hey, wait a minute. there is accountability. we're not going to kind of skate around this. we're not going to have again i say the camouflage that and trump is the embodiment of that. and it's stripped away. >> it's very interesting when you talk about that being stripped. the one direct comparison we'll make to nixon is he left office under a cloud of investigation, but the pardon preempted that process. the president even as a relationship with the president has that. it is only the sovereign local prosecutor of the state that's doing this.

the federal process is different. the supreme court slowed that down. i want to play down briefly some nixon and trump. take a listen bob. >> when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal. >> you have to give a president full and total immunity. >> this is a long running clash between many presidents in both parties. who say they honor the limits on the office and then some who don't. your thoughts on all of that, tonight, bob. >> well, but the power here is a jury went away for a very short period of time. and be fascinated to hear them speak and how they reached this verdict. but, but the verdict leapt over a lot of history and expectation here. and i think it's obviously the conviction is a big moment, but

this undermining of a system where somebody like trump could protect himself that i mean it's, to be direct, it's the boys club. and the boys club got shoved in the back room yesterday. >> journalism has an interplay with law enforcement. they, the police, the prosecutors, the fbi if it's federal, they can't surveil and track everything. so as you know, there's an interplay and sometime s it goes one way or the other. and who's fighting information first. this now convicted felony crime bob started with donald trump's effort to control and subvert media information through a tabloid that ultimately was exposed by journalists and then investigated both by the feds

and now in new york. your thoughts on that and is it important that we continue to have independent investigative journalists who aren't looking at this through a party lens but who are creating the information reservoir that then the system can assess. >> but that journalism needs to not be partisan. it needs to be fact driven. and in doing this for over 50 years you often find somebody will tell you something or there'll be a document. or there'll be a question from an editor of what's really going on here? what's behind this? what does it mean? and if you have the freedom to explore that in a fact driven journalism, there are going to be new dimensions and this is

not journalism doing this. this is the criminal justice system in one city. and where trump was talking about oh well, all this crime is rampant and you know he has a particular way of saying, nobody is ever seen it as bad as it is now. and you kind of think, geez, maybe he's right. well in the case of crime in new york city, crime in cities throughout the country. it's done. -- it's down, it's radically down. he can get on the sled of nobody has seen anything like this. and even often my reaction, well maybe he's right that

time. but, he's wrong so often. he's been exposed in a way that i think will endure as will the criminal conviction. >> final question, you've known a lot of presidents professionally and you talked to him more than most reporters got to. and we discussed the trump tapes previously. do you think any of this including the looming thought of house arrest or possible jail in the july sentencing, will affect him. will actually move him. or does he remain impervious. people may say who cares but he's running for office and he could be president again so his interplay with the justice system matters in many potential ways. >> really important question, and the donald trump we watched this morning i know i watched and heard. i mean i spent really six or

seven years on this man and his presidency and he was changed this morning. it was almost like, these were not a series of spontaneous lies but he had kind of laid them out in a way. he had done some home work, unfortunately the home work is with lies and untruths. that's his style. but his style is normally not to do homework. i think this you can see it in his face, but you could see it in his behavior this morning. and if you didn't know what the evidence might be, and i go back to that assertion about crime in new york city, it's no one's ever seen it this bad. never. i mean, he was not just talking about the era we live in. he was talking about all of

history. it's wrong. it's a lie. >> yeah. >> and any effort by a junior research assistant would show that's not true. doesn't make any difference to him. so he's really been shattered as i say, the camouflage that he's been living in, has been cut through shred. >> really striking to you. there's a saying in brooklyn -rblgs , you could have been any where in the world tonight but you're here with us. we appreciate that. you're in demand. this is a big moment for america. thank you sir, thank you bob. good to see you. appreciate it. when we come back, we've done the lawyers, we've done some of the most iconic journalists around. but we go to an iconic writer, rob reiner, where we're headed next.

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c1 donald trump has been convicted and rob reiner is our special guest. you've done a lot of work with political activism. we're going to put up some of the photos and images we're seeing throughout the country. it's easy in the era we have now and the memes. we're starting right out with a game of thrones meme. it's easy to get caught in this

narrowly. this could be a very broad thing. you know, your thoughts. >> well, you talk about it as a story and this is just the first step of a story that has been percolating since donald trump entered the political sphere. he's been for you know since he came down that escalator, he's been taking a wrecking ball to the rule of law and the constitution. as you pointed out earlier in the program, he's been impeached a couple of times. we've seen not only this conviction but a couple of federal indictments and an indictment down in georgia. and this has been going on for quite a while. and we're seeing the denigration of 250 years of self-rule. democracy, the rule of law has

been eroded. has been continuously eroded. what this conviction represents is the first big step toward regaining our footing. and make no mistake, this is just the beginning. now we have a federal election coming up on november 5th, and that will be, we have 12 jurors, determining his innocence or guilty. they've determined he's guilty. now he's going to be facing the jury of america. the american jury. as you know, as i know, it's not a popular contest. a popularity vote. i want doesn't work that way in america. we're going to have 10 million more votes. biden is going to get 10 million more votes but the people of michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania will determine whether our democracy survives. so that's the story. >> let me ask you about the sweep.

>> yeah. >> we lawyers we talk about you know one felony count is a big difference than 0. but 5-1 is not a big difference. if you want to get into sentencing, they're usually served concurrently. you're not going to serve longer. if you have battery that would be different. legally i have to remind people. it does make a difference. but i'm wondering for you with the story and the clarity, if this were split, you know. if it was 15-15. or 20-10. does the fact that it's a clean sweep you think matter in how this is understood and observed around the country? >> i think it does matter. it's never going to matter to trump's faithful. we saw that with the officials that came out and trumpeted everything that donald trump was saying. but it will matter to people who look, who are living in the world of reality. and who respect the rule of law

and who respect our constitution and our 250 years of self-rule. those people, i would refuse to believe that a majority of people in the seven swing states, particularly michigan, wisconsin and pennsylvania are going to go into that voting booth and say, you know what, i'm going to vote for a convicted felon. i don't think they'll do it. and i think when they are faced with that, the right result will occur. and that joe biden will win. he'll win the popular vote by over 10,000 votes but he'll win the electoral college and we will have preserved democracy. i think this is the first big step toward that. >> this provides a foundation that's different than other endless debates. a lot of people lie, and lying can be effective. meaning it can work but over time it tends to fade. i could argue that in a lot of different settings. here's someone who apparently lied, speaker mike johnson in 2015 said, what he meant.

what felt. trump lacks the character and moral center needed in the white house. now he says the opposite and he made a pilgrimage down to the courthouse, which was especially tense and hypocrite hypocritical for him was at the center and here it is what's happening. >> you have marco rubio he's done a 180. ted cruz when he campaigned against trump. he's done a 180. mitch mcconnell. the list goes on and on and on of people who have said, this man is a danger to democracy, he should not be president, he's unfit. he's psychopath, sociopath, malignant narcissist, all these things have been said about him and then they go and do the

reverse because they care about their political the career more than anything else. he's taken a wrecking ball to his party and that party will suffer, but we must not let him take a wrecking ball to our institution and our democracy. >> rob reiner you had to wait after bob. it was great batting clean up. a little reporting fatigue. it's been a long day. >> i don't blame you. i don't blame you. >> appreciate you. we will be right back. [music playing] tiffany: my daughter is mila. she is 19 months old.

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