coming next. >> no. >> she would rather believe, there is a more spiritual reason for what happened. >> i believe that god called them home and i think dean came to take his mom home. and our children are on loan to us. i just forgot that. >> dayna says, she tries to remember only the happy times, the joy she experienced so briefly of being a grandmother. how they died, she says, was just a moment. how they lived is what she wants to remember. that's all for this edition of "dateline." i am craig melvin. thanks for watching. ks for wat. welcome to morning joe: weekend. let's get to this week's big story.

>> while this defendant may be unlike any other in american history, we arrived at this trial and ultimately, today, at this verdict in the same manner as every other case that comes through the court room doors. by following the facts and the law, and doing so without fear or favor. many voices out there, the only voice that matters is the voice of the jury and the jury has spoken. >> manhattan district attorney alvin bragg speaking yesterday following the historic conviction of former president donald trump on all 34 counts in the criminal hush money trial. trump becomes the first former u.s. president in american history to be convicted of a crime. the verdict was read around 5:00 p.m. in a new york city courtroom after the 12 jurors deliberated for roughly 9.5 hours, two

days. each of the 34 felony counts associated with a falsified business records pertaining to trump's reimbursement of his former attorney and fixer, michael cohen, for a hush money payment to adult film actress, stormy daniels, during the 2016 presidential campaign to keep her quiet about a sexual encounter. she says she had with trump in 2006. trump has denied her claim. sentencing is set for july 11, just four days before the republican national convention begins in milwaukee. the maximum sentence for falsification of business records is four years in prison . but incarceration is not a mandatory sentence. it will be judge juan merchan who ultimately decides the punishment . along with joe, willie in may we have the host of way too early, jonathan.

u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, catty cake, embassy correspondent legal correspondent lisa rubin. former u.s. attorney and msnbc contributor chuck rosenberg, and msnbc legal analyst, danny cevallos are good to have you with us. >> chuck, i'm curious, your first impressions of what happened yesterday and what american should be looking at and what they should be focusing on as we move forward. >> yeah, is going to be hard, i think, for our very divided country to look at this the way i do. i think it's a relatively simple thing. the government presented a compelling case. they deduced the facts they wanted to produce the call the witnesses they wanted to call and asked the questions they wanted to ask them, and the jury understood the pictures often do. statistically speaking, most juries convict most of the time and that's what happened here.

i was thinking about, believe it or not, the national science foundation pole that shows about a quarter of americans -- and this is been consistent over time, believe the sun revolves around the earth. for those of you keeping score at home. it doesn't. so i think it's hard to convince people that what happened in new york happens routinely and regularly around the country. juries hear the facts. they deliberate. they deliver the verdict here and we need to accept that plain and simple. >> lisa rubin, eva been covering the so closely at the courthouse from the beginning and giving us your analysis and reading tea leaves the last few days. i think the prosecution hoped for but probably did not expect a clean 34 for 34 sweep on every count to get convictions on those. what is your reaction to the verdict?

>> i was in the courtroom yesterday for the verdict and i can tell you that just the very existence of our verdict was a huge shock to everyone there, given the fact that judge merchan assembled the parties at 4:15. he came in and said he was prepared to release the jurors at 4:30 and he needed to take care of a couple of things and that he stepped off the bench. 4:30 came and went . and a 4:36 there was this tension all throughout the courtroom as everyone was waiting inking, what in the world is happening? could we possibly have our verdict? and when he retook the bench and said i have a note from the jury. they have a verdict. both people on both sides of me gasped audibly. you can hear it reverberate throughout the crowd just the very existence of the verdict was shocking. but i think the reactions of the parties was also so telling. >> former president trump try to put a good face on the verdict when he walked out.

you could see he set his jaw and that trump -like way and pursed his lips in the way where you stupid he set his face to look ahead him and yet he looked like a man that was defeated and resigned. he walked slowly and lumbering lay. and once they were out of the courtroom, we, the press corps about 100 of us, were left in there with the d.a.s office. i don't know if i share this before but when trump was out into the hallway for security purposes everyone is frozen, and that includes the staff of the manhattan district attorney's office. if you are counting on them to look as if they just scored the biggest score and that office pop is history, you would not have seen it on their faces are alvin bragg's face. he looked to straight ahead in the prosecutors on his team did not crack a single smile among them. maybe there was a little twinge of relief in their shoulders and body language, but this was a group of people that knew all eyes of the world would be on them in this moment if they

were lucky enough to get a conviction let alone 34 of them . and they bet the moment with the seriousness of purpose. this is not a group of people, despite what donald trump and his republican allies are saying, that relished this victory and are rejoicing in it. it was a somber and sad day for america that we have now seen a former president convicted on 34 felony counts. and you could see that in their faces. >> good punch to the country. dennis, let's talk about what's next. sentencing is july 11. what happens between now and then and what are the options with sentencing and i take it an appeal can't start until after that? >> probation will prepare a presentence investigation report back that normally involves interviewing the offender to find out about the offender but who needs to interview donald trump to find out about his biographical details and all the other information that normally goes into a psr.

then the sides will submit their sentencing memorandum. the trump side will unquestionably ask for probation only sentence. the real question for me and what i'm curious about is what the d.a.s office asks for. will they say, this is a political decision is asked for probation only. we won and let's call it a victory. will he ask for incarceration? i believe they will ask for an incarceration sentence in this case. the question is what judge merchan will do. there plenty of arguments to be made for probation-only sentence. this is a 71 plus-year-old offender. a nonviolence offense and first-time offender. no guns or drugs or violence involved. and i would make an additional argument and reasonable minds can disagree here but i would say that loss, in the great chuck rosenberg what are you and fraud systems, the single biggest driver of a sentence is the dollar amount of loss and loss is measured in different ways. as a defense attorney i would argue the loss in this case is

0.0. not a traditional fraud case where you have traditional victims we handed over their money, let's say and i'm thinking of an example -- let's say i made up a fake university in charge people fake tuition for my fake university and kept all that money. i'm just giving a hypothetical example. that might be a case where you could measure loss in terms of the number of victims multiplied by how much they paid. you don't really have that here. you could make the argument that the loss in the victims of the people of the state of new york. i get that and reasonable minds can disagree but as a defense attorney i would argue that loss in this case is zero. i think that you will see a request for a non-incarceration probation only sentence. but i also think it was in the prosecutors ask for jail time. >> let me open this up to our lawyers, chuck, lisa, and danny and ask, what happened? i must say that -- and i've said it here before --

inundation were 77 million people voted for donald trump, i just -- maybe i was being cynical but i just thought there would be one out of 12 jurors that would've said, no. not going to go along with it. we are going to drag this thing out for ever. i was surprised by the quickness of it. i was surprised by the resounding 34 of 34. what do you all think happened in there that moved the dynamic in such a dramatic way against donald trump? lisa, i'll start with you. >> well, joe, i think what happened is evidence happened. and the evidence in this case was overwhelming. todd blanche can go on as many networks as he can find and

sate that has client was convicted solely on the word of michael cohen and nothing could be further from the truth. his client was convicted largely on the words of two categories of people . his acolytes are starting with david pecker and ending with hope hicks , and his own words heard by the jury in a recording that michael cohen made september 6 , 2016. and even including his tweets, which were consciousness of his guilt in 2018. his legal filings were he admitted this was a reimbursement. and all of the books that he wrote proclaiming how you got to be donald trump. those laid out a framework for his m.o. his m.o. was reward the people who are loyal. loyalty above all else. don't trust anyone, even if you have the best people around you. micromanage. because at the end of the day your checkbook belongs to you and you alone. donald trump was convicted because evidence happens. >> and i think one of the

things that we may not know for some time until we talk to jurors, but i don't think the jurors spent a lot of time parsing out each and every count. i think they looked at them as a group. and they could've done that because the facts involved with each transaction were so similar yes, there were minor dents races. i did wonder if the macy's on the fact that donald trump signed some checks but not all the checks or for example the checks came from the trump organization and they came from the trust. those were examples of differences between these transactions. but of course, each count, all these counts could've been divisible by three because you had a boucher related to a check related to an invoice. so in that sense, they could've group those together. but unlike many financial crimes cases where the transactions are very distinct and involve different facts, this could've been a case where they really just could've grouped all these together and said that trump's

intent applied to all of them broadly based on the evidence they heard of trump's involvement in the could've arrived at this relatively quickly. maybe we will find out they took a straw poll right away when they got in the jury room and there was a minority. and going to your question, joe. you are right. we often speak that it only takes one juror. but practically speaking if you are that one of 12 and you get in that jury room and you find that i'm the only one who doesn't agree with my 11 fellow jurors, those folks, i don't think, tend to hold out for too long. mass psychology is that, well, i better listen to what they have to say. i'm convinced of will. i'm someone with an open mind. i said i would look at this with an open mind. when you wanted to make in the minority, maybe it doesn't take too long. that's why the read back the testimony to say, hey, steve, are you convinced now? maybe your memory is refreshed. are you with us? that's probably why this happened. in my view this was a short deliberation. >> morning joe: weekend will be

right back. [introspective music] recipes. recipes written by hand and lost to time. are now being analyzed and restored using the power of dell ai. ♪

liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. that's great. i know, i've bee telling everyone. baby: liberty. oh! baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪ what if you could go from this to this. with just one step tresemmé silk serum. time for the ultimate humidity test. weightlessly smooth hair your turn. new tresemmé keratin smooth collection.

our biggest challenge? uncertainty. hidden fees, surcharges... who knows what to expect! turn shipping to your advantage. keep it simple...with clear, upfront pricing. with usps ground advantage®. ♪♪

welcome back to morning joe: weekend. let's picked back up on the conversation we were having before the break. >> chuck rosenberg. joe's question as to what you think happened, why do you think this happened the way it did over the last few days, but also to get to to focus in on the idea of sentencing. what would your thoughts be as to what donald trump will face? >> first question first, jonathan. my experience has been overwhelmingly that when jurors assemble and they tell a judge they can be fair and listen with an open mind, they actually mean it. so, yeah, understand it only takes one juror to hang a jury and to create a miss trial but that's not what tends to happen. and i think danny is right about the psychology of it. listen to their own words

during jury selection. people who said they could not be fair, i'm sorry, people who couldn't be fair said they could not be fair and were removed from the jury. the number of people said they could be fair and they were impaneled. and by and large, that's true. that's by experience. people really do listen to the facts and follow the instruction of the judge and if the facts are compelling, and they were in this case apparently, then you have a conviction. was it quick? it was relatively quick. quick verdicts tend to be government verdicts. quick verdicts tend to be prosecution verdicts but i don't think it was unduly quick. i think 10 hours of plenty of time to sit down and talk to your brothers and sisters on the jury and to agree on the weight of the evidence and to fairly deliberate the case. not unduly quick. and finally, jonathan, with regard to sentencing. look. it's always a bad idea before the first pitch to tell the umpire that he sucks. it's just not the way you want to go into the first inning of

a baseball game. it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. nevertheless, as danny articulated earlier, this is a first-time, nonviolent offender. and typically in new york state courts, a first-time, nonviolent offenders does not get a jail sentence. that said, continuing to yell at the umpire and denigrate the alpine the courts and the jurors and the system and the prosecutors is just a bad strategy. and one thing that joses look for at sentencing is what the defendant has to say because all defendants have a chance to speak at sentencing. we call it allocution and, you know, i sit there and listen as a prosecutor to whether or not the defendant is remorseful, whether he or she apologizes, whether he or she takes responsibility. and i think mr. trump is constitutionally incapable of doing that. and so, might that be determinative here?

perhaps pick the typical defendant in a case like this would get a sentence of probation. danny is exactly right. but mr. trump has been and always will be a wildcard. and his fate now resides in the hands of one person and he's been spending a lot of time denigrating that one person so we will see. >> yeah. you know, i learned early on the campaign trail that the rules of evidence and civil procedure and all the things that kept things sane inside a courtroom did not apply when you get out in politics. it's like, oh my god. people can say whatever they want to say and it was a bit of a shock. we reversed that here and we talked about it a good bit over the past year. gravity returning. the lies that people could say outside of a courtroom about stolen elections that they would never say in front of a judge. while in this case you have donald trump, and i have no

doubt that the abusiveness that some people, for some strange reason are drawn to on the campaign trail, it cost him inside the courtroom. they had a mild-mannered judge. the judge that the jury seemed to like. and trump was constantly being abusive toward the judge. he had a witness that the judge had to dress down. time and time again, trump and his lawyers thought they could bully their way through these proceedings. it's a very small room. and if the jury, if they like the judge, they're looking at what's going on through the eyes of the judge. that had to hurt donald trump from the very beginning. >> joe, i think you're probably talking about the most important point that happened during this trial, including the verdict. and it overshadows the big headlines that say guilty on every front page in the country. and it's the fact that 12

ordinary american citizens, perhaps at different political beliefs, different religious beliefs come at different ethnic backgrounds. we don't know that. 12 average americans sat in a room and, guess what? they did not get information or evidence from tiktok or instagram they got evidence presented rationally by the prosecution in this case and they made a decision that donald j trump was guilty and donald j trump's reaction to the guilty verdict was, once again -- he has already demeaned and destroyed much of our electoral process by saying it's rigged and corrupt. and now he took on the rule of law. he took on the definition of justice itself by saying this verdict was corrupt and it was rigged and it's a rigged system . well, if he was correct in both his assertions that the electoral process is rigged and corrupt and the judicial process is rigged and corrupt

then there is no more america. there is no more america. and, lisa, i'm wondering if you as an officer of the court are worried about the fact that trump and his followers have seen ted cruz and marco rubio are going to continue to do damage to the rule of law? >> absolutely. that's a huge concern of mine. i cannot believe ted cruz's statement last night about the verdict that this was an outrage and an upset to the rule of law i kept thinking, you were involved in this. you kept dragging your father into this. he had david pecker do mockups of your father with lee harvey oswald . you are defending this guy? the competitive sycophancy going on here is olympic level and what's going to suffer his democracy and justice, which should be the twin pillars of our country, right? and yet they are all falling all over themselves to say this is not how the justice system should function this is exactly

how the justice system should function. chuck said the other day that win or lose, whatever happened here, we should respect the verdict of this jury. everything i saw from this jury showed an engaged and vested, serious group of people who were coming together to make a great decision and they understood that what they were doing was particularly serious giving who the defendant was but it wasn't like they took this flippantly. and yet we have donald trump and his republican allies continuing to call the process a sham. the judge corrupt. the district attorney a sham with racial overtones that i find particularly grotesque. >> more coverage of the guilty verdict and donald trump's criminal trial after a quick break. and now... ♪♪ they're backk! the footlong cookie is back at subway! can neuriva support your brain health?

mary, janet, hey!! (thinking: eddie, no frasier, frank... frank?) fred! how are you?! fred... fuel up to 7 brain health indicators, including your memory. join the neuriva brain health challenge. [ serene music playing ] welcome to the wayborhood. the wayfair vibe at our place is western. my thing, darling? shine. gardening. some of us go for the dramatic. how didn't i know wayfair had vanities in tile? [ gasps ] this. wow! do you have any ottomans without legs. sure. you'll flip for the poof cart. in the wayborhood, there's a place for all of us. ♪ wayfair. every style. every home. ♪

do you want to close out? should i? normally i'd hold. but... taking the gains is smart here, right? feel more confident with stock ratings from j.p. morgan analysts in the chase app. when you've got a decision to make... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management.

this was a disgrace that this was a rigged trial but a conflicted jug who is -- judge

who is corrupt. a rigged trial. disgrace. the real verdict is going to be november 5 by the people and they know what happened here and everybody knows what happened here. you have a soros-backed d.a. and a whole thing. we didn't do a thing wrong. i'm a very innocent man. we have a country that's in big trouble, but this was a rigged decision right from day one with a conflicted judge who should have never been allowed to try this case. never. and we will fight for our constitution. this is long from over. >> joining us now from the biden campaign's first live interview since the announcement of the conviction as national cochair for president biden's re-election campaign, mitch landrieu. thank you for being with us this morning. we appreciate it. let's start right there. what is the reaction? what is your reaction to what we heard yesterday. the historic moment. the first conviction ever the former president of the united states.

>> well, i think it's a very sober moment for the country and a very sad moment for the country. for all the people in america to have a president or ex- president become a convicted felon. that's nothing for anybody to have a lot of joy about. but yesterday you sought democracy work. one of the fundamental tendons of democracy is that everybody in the united states is subject to the rule of law. you come before a judge and jury of your peers. facts and evidence are held and the verdict is rendered. that is what a nation that relies on laws and not of men is supposed to do. as a consequence of that trial, donald trump is now a convicted felon. but that does not change the fact that the only thing that can stop him from getting to the white house is the american people. they will be the final jury as it relates to who is president of the united states and the choice is clear. you can have a guy that is a convicted felon that's been found liable of defamation, sexual abuse and business

fraud. and now a convicted felon who thinks about himself, and of course every word that comes out of his mouth is revenge against people who dare cross them. or you can have joe biden who wakes up every day thinking about the american people but delivering and making sure our democracies are protected and our freedoms are protected and he makes life better for all americans. that's the choice before the american people and nothing that happened yesterday will change the fact that we have an election about who america is going to be for years to come in a couple of months. >> so you just framed the national significance of yesterday and the choice ahead. tell us. how will the biden campaign use this verdict? how will you incorporate it into your messaging and what were the president himself say? >> i don't want to get out of the president. i don't have any news to make on what he will will say and when he will speak. he will address it in time. but it's affected now. and a comfortable fact for all of us in america that donald trump is a convicted felon.

the reason it is kim -- important to the campaign is to be the president of the united states, wisdom, character are important and if you weigh that against donald trump's life. his personal life, business and political life him everything he touches has turned to dirt. he is use the power of the presidency to hurt people and not help people. joe biden wakes up every day making sure we create jobs and we have low unemployment and were putting people back to work. thinking about restoring democracy to people. but democracy is on the ballot. the fact that donald trump and all of his acolytes without attack the rule of law but they are attacking the very foundation of what makes america great. if everyone wants to stop that you have to go to the polls. sign up at joe biden.com. work with us to save democracy and make america a better place for everybody. >> as you suggested, the former president and a number of republicans including the speaker of the house, members of the senate, have compared

what happened yesterday to what would happen in a communist nation saying the american justice system failed here. let's get your reaction to that. and, or do you have concerns as to how the former president and these republicans may incite his supporters after what happened? >> well, i think we are at a delicate moment. joe biden has talked to the seven times. he's given his speech about how fragile democracy can be but yet how strong it can be a people show up and vote. there is a very strong and clear antidote to anything the speaker might be saying or the president, the ex-president might be saying, all of which are wrong, by the way big you have to go to the polls and vote. that's how you stop autocracies from happening. go to joe biden.com. that's the only way to keep them out of the oval office and there's nothing that will happen yesterday that will relieve the burden take the responsibility away from the american people. to be clear. speaker johnson is from louisiana and i know him and like a minis a constitutional

lawyer. the constitution of the united states says we are a nation of laws, not of men. it allows for trial by jury, which is one of the most sacrosanct things in a democracy and it calls for the peaceful transition of power and as a result of yesterday we now know that donald trump tried to stop the election from being held in a free and fair way and after it was held he tried to stop the peaceful transition of power. you can't have two more graber assault on democracy and democracy cannot have a greater defendant then joe biden. the choice is clear you can have someone that cares about himself and his billionaire friends and seeks retribution and hate and wants to destroy the country or pick someone that wakes up every day fighting for the american people and who will save democracy if the american people give them a chance? >> national cochair for president joe biden's re- election campaign taper joining us this morning. we have a lot more on the guilty verdict, 34 counts, for former president donald trump. stay with us.

♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ ♪ ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ you don't...you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪ (fisher investments) at fisher investments we may look like ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ other money managers, but we're different. (other money manager) you can't be that different. (fisher investments) we are. we have a team of specialists not only in investing, but also also in financial and estate planning and more. (other money manager) your clients rely on you for all that? (fisher investments) yes. and as a fiduciary, we always put their interests first. (other money manager) but you still sell commission -based products, right? (fisher investments) no. we have a simple management fee structured so we do better when our clients do better. (other money manager) huh, we're more different than i thought! (fisher investments) at fisher investments, we're clearly different. ♪♪ imagine a future where plastic is not wasted... but instead remade over and over...

into the things that keep our food fresher, our families safer, and our planet cleaner. to help us get there, america's plastic makers are investing billions of dollars to create innovative products and new recycling technologies for sustainable change. because when you push for smarter solutions, big things can happen. shake up your shower with a flavor for every feeling. this dove freshens you up. this dove winds you down. this dove leaves you glowing. and this dove keeps you going. so whatever care you care about, there's a dove for every body. if you're living with hiv, imagine being good to go without daily hiv pills.

good to go off the grid. good to go nonstop. with cabenuva, there's no pausing for daily hiv pills. for adults who are undetectable, cabenuva is the only complete, long-acting hiv treatment you can get every other month. it's two injections from a healthcare provider. just 6 times a year. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or if you're taking certain medicines which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions, post-injection reactions, liver problems, and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms, stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver or kidney problems, mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection-site reactions, fever, and tiredness. with cabenuva, you're good to go. ask your doctor about switching.

this is a justice system that hunts republicans while protecting democrats. this was certainly a hoax, ashamed. this was devastating for the average american watching. >> it is shameful to see this and i hope americans are paying attention because, america, they think you are stupid. >> what we saw today was an absolute travesty of justice that this was not law. this was not criminal justice this was politics. this was a

political smear job. this was an attack job. this is what you see in banana republics. i am both furious and heartbroken at the same time. >> this is the quintessential show trial. this is what you see in communist countries. this is what i grew up having people in this community tell me about. it happened days after the castro revolution. those led to educations but this is an effort to interfere in an election? >> do they know that it was a jury of 12 peers and that people can see what the evidence was in this case? that was just a sampling of republican reactions to president trump's guilty verdict. nbc news also learned rnc political director james blair had a call with all 50 gop state chairs after the verdict to issue postverdict talking points and messaging for the party. those talking points include this is unjust. the conviction will be good for republicans. we will win the appeal.

and we just elected the next president of the united states. joining us now is author nbc news presidential historian and a former msnbc host and contributor to the washington monthly, chris matthews. michael, these republicans just in history, is there any prediction of how history will look at the reaction to this moment? >> what i just heard it makes me sick because the essence of america is to believe in our system of government and the rule of law. when george hw bush was president he would go over and talk to macau gorbachev about how to reform his country and he would say no one is going to invest in russia unless you have a rule of law because people will wonder whether their money will be there the next day or whether it will be stolen pick so to hear donald trump and all these people say that the system is rigged, look

at it this way. let's have a reality check. so he wants to be president again and let's say he gets elected and then he had to take an oath of office. preserve, protect and defend the constitution. that's the rule of law. how do you do that if you said in your own case it was a rigged system. bad jury in bad judge. disregard the outcome. it used to be the republicans were actually for law and order. on the other thing is you are asking about some in history, mika . look at 1974. that's the only time in this program i will ever praise richard nixon and watergate. supreme court unanimously 8-0 said give up your tapes picnics and did not say the system is rigged. i shouldn't give them up, because he knew that would get him kicked out of office. he gave up the tapes. he had to resign. and gerald ford, the new president did not say the system was rigged and

nixon was railroaded. he said our system works this is a government of laws and not of men. here the people rule. >> what's interesting, chris matthews and i would love for you to take me to pennsylvania, lancaster county, or areas that voted for trump because what they are hearing on fox news or in the areas where they get their information, far right networks and new sites, is that not just that this is unjust and this was rigged, but they are also hearing that went donald trump, if and when donald trump is elected, they say when, that donald trump will go after everybody who prosecuted him. every single person picked retribution. so tell me, how do you feel, the people, especially in areas of pennsylvania, are going to be digesting this information? >> including the 50th ward in

northeast philadelphia, parts of northeast philadelphia voted for trump last time, and south philly too. i think this is a focus group. a political focus group. politics, you get a bunch of people and set them aside for the rest of the country and fill them with all the facts. give them all the information that's relevant to the discussion and they give you a verdict about what they think about the counting. this was a focus group. aside from the legal factors it was a focus group of people who got for 21 days all the facts. unmitigated truth of what was going on in this matter in this case and they came out with a judgment in a matter of nine or 10 hours. so it's really important in a country where 3/5 of the country don't get the news you don't get the philadelphia inquirer read the washington post or the new york times or other big papers but they don't get the news. they say things like, tiktok didn't really cover the trial. what? or i hear that joe biden

couldn't recite the alphabet. what? this never happened. this stuff never happens to most people. this time we had a focus group. had all the facts all the equifax, by the way. and they rendered an actual verdict in a matter of nine hours i think we know where we're at. if you get all the information for the people, which is almost impossible to get in the media today, you'll get a verdict but the bad news is three face of the country is not getting the news. listening to tiktok or nothing our nonsense or social media are what trump is putting on fox and that's the problem. this case is a good case because people had all the fact for 21 days. and by the way the lawyers on your show have been fabulous. everyone has been fabulous. and they understand this matter was a truthful response from a truthful group of people doing their job as jurors and they learned the truth and they acted on it. that's really

powerful information, apart from the legal system. it's about an american focus group. >> and this is the way it works. michael beschloss, we've been saying it's new york city and donald trump came out and set it only got 5% in manhattan, how can i get a fair trial here? >> also untrue as you pointed out. >> if you look at the makeup of the jury, which donald trump and his legal team had a say in selecting the jurors because that's how the system works. they struck and chose jurors. as many of the jurors, the 12th you see there, got their news from truth social, as msnbc, one each. a lot of them said fox news a wall street journal. the point being they consume news from a wide spectrum. they come from different backgrounds. some of them, perhaps, had some affection for donald trump. so they listened, as chris said, to the evidence and made

a decision unanimously within our system that he was guilty on all 34 counts and am curious from your point of view of history of the way our system in the last five or six years has bent but not broken. we talked about those trials around the 2020 election of january 6. yes, the system was pushed. the system was tested by donald trump. a man who is still here. and i think it's safe to say the test will continue for the next several months? >> i totally agree. and if he is elected it could continue for the rest of our lifetimes, conceivably. that's what's at stake. and this is the question we've all got to ask. do we believe in the system of law that we got in this country, which to my mind is the essence of america, or do we not? >> and we will have continued analysis of the trump guilty verdict straight ahead. ♪ and i am lost and i can't ♪ punch buggy red. ♪ even say why ♪

♪ i am, i said ♪ ♪ ♪ in our family there was a passion for glass making that's passed down through the generations. we stood on some pretty broad shoulders to get to where we are at today. on ancestry i was able to actually put together our family tree. each person is a glass worker. that's why we do what we do. we can't help it. the glass blowing - that's a part of our dna. it's in my blood, it's in my history. it's my job to make sure that this shop makes it to the next generation.

[ cellphone ringing ] phone call from the boss? sorry. outdoor time is me time. i hear that. that's why we protect all your vehicles here. but hey...nothing wrong with sticking it to the boss. ooooh, flo, you gonna take that? why would that concern me? because you're...the... aren't you the..? huh...we never actually discussed hierarchy. ok, why don't we just stick to letting dave know how much he can save when he bundles his home or auto with his boat or rv. wait, i thought jamie was the boss. [ laughter ] it's funny because i'm not boss material! what is cirkul? cirkul is the fuel you need to take flight. cirkul is the energy that gets you to the next level. cirkul is what you hope for when life tosses lemons your way. cirkul, available at walmart and drinkcirkul.com.

where there's a lot of developments yet to come but i

do think, i do believe the supreme court should step in. obviously. this is totally unprecedented and dangerous to our system. we've all discussed this before and you talk about it all the time. this is diminishing the american people's faith in our system of justice itself. and to maintain a republic you have to have that. people have to believe that justice is fair. that is equal justice under law. they don't see that right now and i think the justices on the court -- i know many of them personally -- i know they are deeply concerned about that as we are. so i think they will set this straight but it's going to take a wild. >> that was house speaker mike johnson moments ago on fox news responding to a question on whether the supreme court should get involved in donald trump's appeals process before the november election. joining us now is democratic member of the house oversight committee, congressman dan goldman of new york. thank you for being on the show this morning. your reaction to the verdict, and also to what the speaker of the house was just saying. >> look. the verdict is a success for

the rule of law. it is the exact opposite of what speaker mike johnson is saying. that this was the rule of law. this was our tried-and-true criminal justice system playing out. and what speaker johnson, donald trump and others don't like is that his purely politicized attacks on the rule of law, texanna democracy, are not allowed in court. our court, the courts have very specific rules of evidence. they have very specific laws that apply to all trials against any defendant, including the former president of the united states. and so what you saw is for the first time that we can remember him a donald trump does not get to control the narrative in court. and they jury simply has to to focus on the facts. the evidence. applied to the law they are given by the judge and not consider anything else. and that is where donald trump runs into problems is when the rule of law reigns supreme.

and so the speaker has it exactly wrong. this is why we should have faith in our system because it was an impartial jury of 12 they were vetted. they were asked questions. you may have personal feelings, but the question is whether you can put those to the side and rule on the facts and evidence alone. and that is what we saw over the last several weeks. and donald trump and his acolytes and his supporters may not like it, but that is what makes this country special. that is what we have depended on for 250 years and that is what we must save on november 5 at the ballot box. >> congressman, i wanted to bring on air a conversation we had as you said down. there is conventional wisdom that this case is the only one that will happen between now and the election but there is the outside shot that the federal january 6 case may as well. we heard the speaker invoke the supreme court and they're

currently mulling it over. is there a chance we could see that one too? >> there is a chance. first, we have to deal with this absolutely absurd situation where two justices are completely conflicted from ruling on the case before the supreme court. justice thomas and justice alito. both have spouses, if you believe them, who were involved in the underlying facts of that case. that is a conflict of interest that requires recusal. but the court is going to rule on this absolute immunity question. if they were to roll in it according to the law, the clear, clear law of 250 years, the constitution, there is obviously no absolute immunity for criminal conduct when you're the president. and so what they should do is simply say, this is a bogus claim as the d.c. circuit did, and send it back to the trial judge, who can set a trial right away and should not go to trial in august or whenever it is. if they don't do that and the suspicion is they won't because they changed the question that they are answering as they

accepted the case and they create some contours for absolute immunity and they send it back to the district court to determine what in the indictment should be included in the framework of the new law that they create, then it will not go to trial. and so we will know the answer to those questions in a couple of weeks here. congressman, donald trump will be sentenced in the verdict yesterday on july 11. it seems most of the legal analyst we've had onset it this is a nonviolent, first-time offender an unlikely he serves jail time. you are the assistant u.s. attorney in the southern district of new york and have some experience in such matters. is there any chance that donald trump goes to jail? >> look. i think in an ordinary books and records case like this that it would be unlikely that he would go to jail. but in this case, you have

someone who has attacked the system, attacked the judge, attacked the witnesses. >> that's all the time we have for today. we will see you back here tomorrow morning at 6:00 a.m. eastern for more. until then, enjoy the rest of your saturday. switch to shopify so you can build it better, scale it faster and sell more. much more. take your business to the next stage when you switch to shopify.

do you want to close out? should i? normally i'd hold. but... taking the gains is smart here, right? feel more confident with stock ratings from j.p. morgan analysts in the chase app. when you've got a decision to make... the answer is j.p. morgan wealth management. smile! you found it. the feeling of finding psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu; serious reactions can occur. sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections, cancers including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor.

tyk2 is part of the jak family. it's not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. there's only one sotyktu, so ask for it by name. so clearly you. sotyktu.

good morning. it's saturday, june 1st.