your card from donald trump about his verdict, but what about stormy daniels? this hour, i will speak with her attorney, clark brewster, to learn how stormy learned of the verdict, and how she is doing now. and, her choice to wear a bulletproof vest. good to see you back in the studio. welcome to alex witt reports, i am yasmin vossoughian in for alex. there is even more new fallout from the verdict in donald trump/money trial, guilty on all 34 counts, if you don't know by now. a new poll conducted by reuters in the hours after the verdict shows 11% of republicans saying they are less likely to vote for trump, following his conviction, while 34% say they are more likely to vote for him. the new numbers are almost identical to true verdict pulling.

with the majority saying the verdict would not change their vote. another new snap poll from morning consults shows that 54% of registered voters approving of the verdict, and 34% saying they disappear. these numbers, by the way, they could all change when voters take the time to process the news of this historic verdict. and, the results regarding the presidential race remain within the margin of error. trump, now adjusting to his new status, ranting about the verdict at a press briefing friday in new york at trump tower, while key witness michael cullen attempts to gauge trump's post verdict mind- set. >> i think he is incredibly unnerved. he is not 100% sure what is actually going on, and that is the part that is really scaring him the most. nobody is telling him the truth, so donald, if you're watching, here's the truth. the truth is, you are in

trouble. >> we have reporters, analysts, covering all of the days developments. look who i have here. vaughn hillyard, together again, reunited. outside the courthouse the last seven weeks, alongside me. it has been quite a time, to say the least. we also have katie phang in studio, along with locklin cartwright. bedminster, that is where the former president is spending the weekend. he is at trump tower yesterday, bedminster today, walk us through we know about how he is handling the news. >> the question is, what is he going to do next? he does not have political events on the books. two weeks from now, he has some fundraisers, potentially, a ufc fight night in new jersey, spending the weekend in bedminster, but when you take all of this into account, we are talking about the immediate right now.

it has been over 36 hours since the verdict came down, and i think that is a good place to take a look at where we are going. take a look. >> reporter: an indignant donald trump, now awaiting his sentencing after multiple felony convictions this week, as he raises the stakes on the november election. >> november 5th is going to be the most important day in the history of our country. >> reporter: the former president, speaking for more than 30 minutes on friday at trump tower, where the catch and kill scheme was first hatched, making the case he is a victim of the trial. >> is a very sad thing that is happening in our country, and it is a -- it's a thing that i'm honored, in a way. >> reporter: mr. trump acknowledging the possibility of jail time. >> i don't feel 77. i would like them to say, gee, we have to have a little sorrow for this man. >> reporter: it was a jury of 12 new yorkers, who unanimously found him guilty of falsifying business records in order to cover up a hefty payment to stormy daniels, before his 2016

victory. and, for the first time since the start of the trial, president joe biden responding to the verdict. >> they found donald trump guilty on all 34 felony counts. he will be given the opportunity, as he should, to appeal that decision, just like everyone else has that opportunity. >> reporter: trump, falsely accusing biden of orchestrating the trial. >> this was all done by biden and his people. >> it's reckless. it's dangerous. it's irresponsible for anyone to say this was rigged, just because they don't like the verdict. >> reporter: nbc news' kelly o'donnell following up on his remarks. >> donald trump referred to himself as a political prisoner, and blames you directly. what is your response to that, sir? >> reporter: biden responding wordlessly with a grin. meantime, dueling sides gathered outside of trump tower in midtown manhattan, with tensions increasing around the country over the former presidents prosecution. >> no one is above the law.

>> i think he is guilty of being the best president ever. >> he embarrassed himself. >> reporter: michael cohen, who first turned on his boss in 2018, speaking out after providing three days of testimony in the trial. >> he believed that by destroying me, but that would exonerate him from his crimes. >> prominent republicans, again, line up at mr. trump's defense. >> i think trump benefits from this. >> reporter: mr. trump's campaign saying it raised a staggering $52 million in the 24 hours after the verdict. >> this is the question, where do we go from here? we are just 27 days away from the first white house presidential debate between donald trump and joe biden, 40 days away from donald trump's sentencing over these 34 felony counts, and then, 44 days away from the republican national convention, when donald trump will formerly be dominated -- nominated by his party for the presidency.

>> $52 million, that is a major hall in 24 hours. i want to bring in locklin cartwright, former executive editor of the national enquirer. he was there for the big moment, katie phang as well, host of the katie phang show here on msnbc. katie, start us off. the new york times is reporting there were a couple of ways in which trump could feasibly overturn this conviction. the judge, though, blocking off some of those ways, walk us through what we know here in the possibilities. >> the straightway would be the direct appeal and that an appellate court finds that judge merchan did something that was reversible error, although i have been following this since day one, since the indictment was released a year ago, and i did not see judge merchan do it. all pretrial rulings are also subject to appellate review, it's not just what happen in the confines of the trial itself, so we have to remind ourselves that there is a

process that is going to play out, although, last hour on my show, i spoke to catherine christian, and she says we should probably have some type of appellate ruling by january or february of 2025, so it will definitely be after november of this year. the other way is becoming president of the united states again. it doesn't impact on the state level, what is happening, but there are all these weird legal machinations that can happen, or somebody could help donald trump get it to the supreme court in some way. >> he could appeal to his own doj if he were to be elected. >> the doj is not going to be messing around with this, but i feel like a straight path is just an appeal on the conviction and the sentencing, but it also involves everything that happened prior to jury selection. >> mike johnston is speaking up. we know he visited the courtroom a couple weeks ago. it's all kind of melding together. he is urging the former president to elevate this thing to the supreme court pretty quickly. let's take a listen to what he had to say. >> i do believe the supreme court should step in, obviously. this is totally unprecedented and it's dangerous to our

system. i think the justices on the court, i know many of them personally, i think they are deeply concerned about that, as we are. i think they will set this straight, but it's going to take a while. you are right, the process takes a while to play out. this will be overturn, guys. there is no question about it. it's just going to take some time. >> the whole thing is problematic, what speaker mike johnson just said. even saying that he knows some of the justices on the supreme court, and going so far to say they are already concerned about what took place. that is kind of already politicizing the supreme court when it comes to the possibility that this could be elevated. >> it's more than that. it sounds like it is in x partake communication that members of the supreme court have had. >> that, in and of itself, is grounds for any recusal for any judge for having communications about a matter that could end up in front of you. i think that johnson is just leaning into his bona fides of being a trump bum kisser.

that's what he's doing. i do have a problem with him distorting the system. that is the narrative. it is, let us completely pastor dies this traditional system that should not be at all. >> let's talk about david pecker and the moment you heard the verdict. david pecker was the first witness called to the stand, unlikely, one of the most integral witnesses to the entire case. there were four questions asked by the jury to be read back to them, three of which pertain to david testimony, which was incredible for me to hear, and it showed how much importance they place on david testimony, and the credibility they put into his testimony as well. you worked for him during the time that the catch and kill scenario was put together, so what was it like for you in the courtroom, hearing 34 counts guilty for the president of the united states?

>> i was starting to pack up. and then, the wi-fi was getting really spotty. we were all sitting there trying to get the hotspots. and then, judge merchan said, we've got a note, and it's a verdict. i was thinking, as soon as i heard the note back about a full request that involved david pecker. the read back of the testimony, that the jury had come to a determination about the falsification of the rectors -- records. what they try to look out -- at is the underlying conspiracy that then moves the misdemeanor to a felony of the falsification of business records. i thought, we are on the path to a guilty verdict, and then, it came through. i had a line of sight to the foreman as he stood up and said guilty, and it was just one of those moments where i thought, after all this time, after me late at night whispering to

mates in bars that i think something is going on. i'm working for this organization, and these bizarre things are happening. i think there could be something more going on. my mates would be like, you need to chill out. and then, -- >> you had an inkling, but you didn't have confirmation. >> i wasn't part -- that was one level above me, but i had, sort of, and inkling that something bigger could of been a play, and this was the final confirmation of that in the guilty verdict, 34 times over. it was quite extraordinary. >> do you still have any type of relationship or connection or communication with dylan howard or david pecker at this point? >> no, not only because they try to threaten me with litigation over the years, including two $5 million lawsuits, and threats to have me kicked out of the country, so no, i haven't, besides correspondence from lawyers.

>> do you expect that david pecker still has a relationship with donald trump? he considered him a friend. he said that in his testimony, despite the fact that his testimony was some of the most damning testimony that got donald trump convicted at the end. >> i haven't spoken to david pecker for many years, but i think what was interesting is that he did refer to him as his friend and mentor. although, his testimony was really the turnkey testimony that got the jury to the guilty verdict. >> katie, you know what i thought was so interesting, was when they asked for those four questions when it came to the testimony, but then, part of the jury instructions -- there was part of the jury instructions read back to them about the limiting instructions when it came to michael cohen's testimony and david testimony and credibility. it's something i focused on in my own reporting, because the judge talked about testimony and how to assess credibility,

and they said, essentially, listen, you have to take into account that he has his nonprosecution agreement, both with the fdny and s.e.c. you can take that into account when assessing his credibility, but not to come to the conclusion that donald trump was either guilty or not guilty, and the same for michael cohen. his was more pleading guilty and serving time, taking that into account to assess his credibility. when you couple that with what was read back, with regard to the testimony, it just seemed like they got to the decision fairly quickly. >> the jury did but is supposed to do. jurors are supposed to take the facts, and they are the fact finders, and the ones that decide the credibility of the witnesses. that is not the judge's purview. they are supposed to take the facts and apply them to the law, so when you saw them, that together, i was thinking, okay, they are doing what they are supposed to be doing, but remember, michael cohen's instructions were more stringent. it was actually harsher. it was the accomplice one.

it said, you cannot under new york law convict solely on the basis of the testimony of an accomplice. michael cohen's testimony alone is insufficient to be able to reach a conviction. then, when you saw the four ask , specifically, for the trump tower meeting in 2015, which i always say is the original sin. that is where they hatched the catch and kill scheme. then, when they read pages six through 35 of the jury instructions, that included all of the credibility of witnesses, accessory accomplice instructions, and it read, here is your misdemeanor falsification, here is how you make it into a felony, new york election law, here are the unlawful means, and you don't have to be unanimous on the unlawful means. it was nicely tied up in a bow, and that's how the jury came to their verdict. speedy. >> katie and locklin are sticking with me. i want to get your reaction to my next guest, clark brewster. lawyer for stormy daniels. plus, why she wore a clipper

vest, and what her life is been like since the testimony. and later on, we will talk to peter baker about president biden breaking his silence about the trump trial, and the one thing he is not talking about. up first, get another set that, boeing's first starliner flight was called off just minutes before the rocket was set to take off in florida. the spacecraft has been delayed for years. this test flight was meant to be the final step before nasa certification. it's not yet known what caused today's flight to be scrapped. we are back in just 90 seconds. so, what are you thinking?

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now, to donald trump's guilty verdict, plastered on the front pages of newspapers across the country. news of his conviction and images of his demeanor spreading quickly from alabama to hawaii, vegas to philadelphia. we are learning new tidbits from the notebooks of reporters and correspondents covering the trial, including this from a new msnbc documentary about one key witness, stormy daniels. >> her lawyer said this on another media outlet, she was wearing a bulletproof vest, and that, accounted, for her appearance as well. she was wearing an outfit that accommodated her wearing a bulletproof vest, because she felt, notwithstanding the security measures we have talked about, that her life was at risk in coming to court and testify against former president trump. >> i want to bring in clark brewster, attorney for stormy daniels. thank you for joining us. i'm sure you have been quite busy, to say the least.

>> my pleasure. >> you have spoken to stormy, how is she doing? >> stormy is doing better. when the verdict broke on thursday, we talked. i was the first to speak with her, and it was a culmination of so many things and so many feelings. she got quite emotional about it. we had a talk about what led us there, and how she testified in the courtroom, but, obviously, the verdict, the 34 guilty's, notwithstanding the fact we expected that to happen, the reality of it was a bit of a jolt for her. but, she is doing well. she is dealing with it. she is inundated with press requests. she chose not to do any interviews. she is wanting some quiet time. >> how did she find out? >> i called her.

when the verdict -- when it was announced they had a verdict, we had people in the courtroom there, and when the verdict was read off, i spoke with her. >> what was her immediate reaction when you told her? >> like i said, i think it came rushing forward, the culmination of so many things here over the years, in what she has been through, and also, the pressure of testifying for two days in a courtroom, and the reality that we are dealing with a historical circumstance here. this has never happened. it's just a lot of things. i have represented stormy now since 2019, so more than five years, and i have seen her in a lot of different settings, and she is incredibly bright and resilient, but she was rocked by this a bit. >> is she receiving threats right now? is she worried about her safety?

>> yeah. she took the position, really, at the request of the prosecution months ago not to do any interviews, because they didn't want to impact the trial and anyway, so she chose not to. and, she thought while the jury was deliberating, the same thing. she wanted it to be an occasion that was solemn, and according to the rules, and did not want to say something that might impact anyone, and now that the verdict is out, she wants to carry that out a bit more. she wants to let the dust settle and stay out of the limelight. >> lisa rubin, as you just heard, said that stormy wore a bulletproof vest inside the courtroom. when we all saw stormy walking to the courtroom, it was not the stormy daniels that we all knew publicly. i imagine part of it was because of the anxiety that she was feeling in taking the stand for the first time in such a public trial, such a history making trial. what was behind the choice to wear the bulletproof vest?

>> well, i can tell you right now, as we got close to the date that she was to come to new york, she became paralyzed with fear, not of testifying or the anxiety that we would normally expect a witness that is going to get on the stand, but the fear of being hurt or harmed, or some lone wolf person doing something crazy, and we worked with her personal security. she has a personal security team, and we also talked extensively with the district attorney's office, and what they could provide for security, and her security team said that she can't leave the hotel without a bulletproof vest, and she felt comfortable with that. once she got to the courtroom, not to impact anybody, she took it off. we never said anything about it until after her testimony, but i will say that the district attorney's office was outstanding in the security of the courthouse and the way they arranged to transport her and get her there without her being in abject fear, frankly.

>> i want to talk a little bit, if i can come about her testimony. i was there inside the courtroom for both days of her testimony, and her demeanor was different, especially, during cross, then it was on direct from the prosecution. she did seem more scattered during direct. in cross, she seemed more settled, more confident. i'm wondering what happened on the day off between tuesday and thursday, the conversations that were had that you can close between the two of you to prepare her for cross- examination. >> first of all, direct examination is always quite different. you have a friendly person up there. they are asking questions that you are going to be expecting because you have talked to them, as a general rule. it's a much more -- it's not as natural as it would be on cross, because you are

responding to leading questions and insinuating questions, so i knew stormy would shine on the cross. with regard to the direct, you are just trying to understand what is being sought, and also, you don't want to do something that the court has previously ruled you shouldn't do with some topic or another, so she was very careful about that, and she was guarded on direct. once the cross came, i knew it was her day. i want to say something, just by virtue of what is going on in the press now about, this is a fascist country, or a rigged trial. i met this prosecution team a year ago, after the indictment was returned. stormy did not testify to the grand jury. the grand jurors, themselves, made the decision about the evidence. working with this prosecution team, they are the most diligent, careful thinkers, ethical. they never went outside of any bounds. with the curtains back, i saw that, and this was a team that

-- you could not have better public service, frankly. susan hoffinger, joshua stein glass, and becky mangold were outstanding in their dedication to making sure they were just putting out the truth. the idea that they were part of some suit -- conspiracy is nonsense, and that these 12 people that spent all that time in the courtroom, weeks, listening to the evidence, it is a true and honest verdict based upon the facts and evidence. i witnessed a couple days of that flow in the courtroom. anyone that saw the speaker of the house guaranteeing reversal, he has no idea what he's talking about. he wasn't present. he doesn't know the evidence. he doesn't know the instructions. it's offensive to anyone involved in the trial to hear that kind of garbage. >> what was it like for stormy to testify that night back in 2006? i mean, there were a lot of salacious details. i don't care what you do for a

living. that must've been a difficult moment for her, to put that on display in the courtroom. >> yeah, it was. and, obviously, she has told the story before, but there were some things that really corroborated every aspect of it. but, she has made this very clear. i'm not a victim. people that have been raped or assaulted are victims. i was not a victim, i didn't say no, but i'm not a victim. she has made that very clear. i think that goes to her credibility as well. >> does she think that donald trump got what he deserved? >> obviously, he is not sentenced yet, but i do believe that as we know the facts from the perspective that she testified to, and the law, and i have read the statutory law new york emma passed by the legislature, signed by the governor years ago, and the facts establish those elements. we will see with the sentence

is going to be. if she thinks the truth shines through the trial. >> what about sentencing? what does she want to see when it comes to donald trump's sentencing? >> she is not a legal expert, but i think that she would feel that the judge, the people, the prosecutors will have their voice. mr. trump will have his voice, and she would think that the system would work as intended, just like it did, thus far. >> does she want him to go to jail? >> you know, she said that before, but it was under a heated circumstance. i mean, he was relentless in insulting and demeaning her. it's shameful, frankly. so, in responding to that, she has made those statements on social media, but in her true heart of hearts, as we are sitting there, at sentencing,

if she chooses to attend, she may have a different feeling about that. she is going to put it into the hands of the system and hope that it works as intended. >> is she considering attending his sentencing on july 11th? >> i didn't, actually, ask her about that, but i know this. if the prosecution asked her, she has great respect for them. i think she is likely to honor that request, but if they don't, she probably won't. >> clark brewster, sir, we thank you for spending time with us today. we appreciate it. >> my pleasure. your coverage has been outstanding. it's my pleasure to join you. coming up next, katie phang and locklin cartwright are back with us on the impact of stormy daniels testimony, and whether or not her worries are really behind her. we will be right back.

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the jury. people don't know, unless you have read her book. she is wickedly smart. i think she graduated valedictorian of her high school class. she is much smarter than they are. >> you know who that is, michael cohen giving my colleagues his assessment of stormy daniels. lachlan cartwright and katie phang are back with us to talk more about that. katie, to you first, give me your assessment of what we heard from clark brewster, stormy daniels' attorney. >> i thought your interview was great. you kept asking the questions i wanted answered. i wanted to reset the table a little bit. i want you to think about stormy daniels, her first lawyer was keith davison, and he did her wrong. keith, in his own way, was not representing her best interests in the way that he handled all of this. then, her knight in shining armor is michael avenatti, or so she thought. that dude ripped are often stole from her.

>> he is now tweeting from prison. >> which, is mind-boggling, and now, she finally has clark brewster, who is really advocating and being a true advocate as we defined them as a lawyer in the lawyer client relationship. he is a true counselor and advocate for her. i think it's important for people to remember what she has been through. putting aside the grueling cross-examination, about how quick on her feet she was during the trial, and putting aside what you may or may not want to judge her for what she does for a living. she has trusted people that have done her wrong and betrayed her trust. for her to have the pressure, and we heard it from clark, that she almost had a panic attack when it came time to come and do this, it just humanizes her even more so than what we saw from her. there was a bravery we saw on the stand, and yet, hearing from clark brewster that she got scared, remember, she had the issue in the parking lot in vegas with her infant child. she was on the trump list where she couldn't get across the border.

there were all these things that happened to her, and she has been targeted by various people, and i think we need to take a second and say, i talked to ali velshi, and it's a big act of courage what this woman did, to be able to testify and get this done. >> you think about, lachlan, her testimony, and one of the reasons i asked clark about how she felt about describing that night in 2006, no matter what you do for living, that cannot be easy. especially, during cross- examination with susan necheles, where she said at one point to stormy, you should be used to this kind of thing. you should be used to being put in this type of position, right? in a hotel room of amana power and having sex with him, and it reminds me of what so many young women go through when they are claiming sexual assault. you were drunk, you are wearing

a short skirt, you were asking for. that was a really shocking moment for me during cross, and which she was, while she has faced so much attack outside of the courtroom, she was being attacked for what she does and who she is inside the courtroom, not just for the story she was telling, not just her testimony, but for who she was. >> that was one of many attacks they tried to go at her for her work and the person that she is, and it just didn't land with the jury. she was just fantastic, how she managed to redirect them every time they were trying to go at her. she has been the face of this hush money trial. before we -- i think people appreciated the wider consequence of this being about election interference, but it was stormy daniels, stormy daniels, hush money. how must that be that you are the face of every publication in the lead up to this trial? she came in there and she sat through her testimony, and was just absolutely brilliant on

the stand, and i think, credit to her, and her attorney was saying, as someone that sat through a lot of the trial, judge merchan could not have been fairer in this matter. particularly, to the defense. anyone saying this was somehow rigged or anything like that, i wish there were cameras to see what i got to see over the last several weeks, because this was a fair trial. no doubt. >> there were many moments in which judge merchan was chiding stormy daniels, trying to check her from being too much, or whatever, and i will say it was a legal strategy that came from the defense to attacker for who she is as a woman and her professional life choices. all you have to do on the defense was get up on cross and say, you didn't have anything to do with the trump organization. you were not there for the meeting in trump tower. you have no personal knowledge. no further questions, your honor. in closing, you can say, you

don't have to listen to this woman. everything she said was superfluous because none of it speaks to the facts or issues of the case, but they wanted to make her feel the small, because that is what donald trump does. he wants to make abel feel small. he does it all the time, and he thought it was going to work and it backfired. >> by the way, he is still denying that it ever even happened. katie, lachlan, thank you. i'm sure we will see a lot more of both of you. >> i'm going home for a little bit. >> you can watch katie phang's show saturdays at noon eastern here on msnbc. inside the beltway, what is being said privately about donald trump's conviction, plus, what is being said about the new hamas israel peace proposal being pushed by the white house. we will be right back. tery and i knew i needed to do something so i started taking prevagen. i realized that i was much more clear,

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welcome back. the president, breaking his silence on the trump hush money trial after his predecessor was found guilty on all 34 felony charges. during a news conference, the president, who up until now has shied away from discussing trump's legal troubles had sharp words for republicans trying to discredit the legal proceedings that led to trump's conviction. >> it's reckless. it's dangerous. it's irresponsible. for anyone to say this was rigged, just because they don't like the verdict. our justice system has endured for nearly 250 years. it, literally, is the cornerstone of america, our justice system.

the justice system should be respected, and we should never allow anyone to tear it down. >> the new york times' peter baker and aaron gilchrist are joining the firm on this. walk us through what more we heard from the president when it came to the conviction of former president donald trump. >> reporter: you just play the strongest part of the president's reaction to this week's verdict. president biden sang the american principle that no one is above the law was reaffirmed in this decision from the jury. the president's comments were short, but clearly, critical of former president trump, and at the same time, trying to shore up respect for the judicial process and the justice system, saying, essentially, that the system worked as it should. what we saw from the president at the white house yesterday was different than what we have been getting from the biden harris campaign, even today, it's putting out statements referring to president trump is a convicted felon, again, calling him a threat to democracy, leaning into the

message that we will continue to hear from the campaign for months to come, that the only way to keep donald trump out of the white house is to vote and vote for president biden. >> i also want to talk about some news that the president made yesterday as well when it came to an announcement for support for an israeli cease- fire proposal. walk us through that. >> reporter: it really was a unique moment for president biden in his dealing with the war in gaza, and trying to bring it to an end. we have seen the administration really bend over backwards, not to get ahead of any of the negotiations and potential cease-fire deals as they have come and gone over the last eight months, but we have gotten details about deals in the past. they have typically come from sources overseas. for the present too abruptly at a speech to a schedule, and layout, in a very detailed way, the key points of the deal on the table was a bit atypical. we know that hamas has been presented this three-step deal, that includes a cease-fire, a withdrawal of israeli troops from gaza, the release of

hostages and palestinian prisoners, a surge of aid, reconstruction of gaza. the president called this plan a path to a better future for everyone involved. listen to this. >> all of this progress would make israel more secure, with israeli families no longer living in the shadow of a terrorist attack. all of this would create the conditions for a different future, a better future for the palestinian people. one of self-determination, dignity, security, freedom. this path is available, once the deal is struck. right now, nbc news learned last week that a u.s. delegation was heading to egypt to advanced discussions about aid for rafah, in particular, but the president's remarks highlight the urgency of the moment. we heard the president implore israeli leaders to support the deal, to stand behind it, regardless of pressure, and he called on everyone who wants peace to raise their voices and

let leaders know they should take the stale. >> aaron gilchrist, we appreciate it. i want to bring in peter baker, chief white house correspondent for the new york times, co-author of the divider. peter, as always, it's a pleasure. urgency of the moment. i'm wondering if that is what, likely, propelled the president to say and call for this cease- fire deal. especially, with what we see coming out of rafah. >> yeah, i said the words very powerfully. i think a stronger annunciation of that that he has made up until this point. you can tell from that, the frustration he feels as the war continues to go on. in some ways, his speech yesterday underlined how much it is his war as it is israel's. he has political ownership of it. he has taken a lot of heat domestically. he has defended israel, both at home and abroad, and i think he

is tired of not receiving the respect he thinks he deserves from the israeli government, in terms of trying to wrap this up. he is trying to lock in the israeli's on a cease-fire plan, while putting the onus on hamas to say, okay, it's time for you to accept it, but this is a very high wire diplomatic act. it's not clear if the americans and israelis are on the same page on a proposal. for instance, you saw the second phase talks about a permanent end to hostilities. that is in conflict with what benjamin netanyahu has said. he said they would not stop the were completely until we have completely destroyed hamas. the president said yesterday, hamas, while not destroyed, they can no longer mount the kind of attack they did on october 7th. it's not clear that is acceptable to the israeli government. >> how do you then, peter -- we will get to trumpet a moment, but how do you reconcile the president feeling this way about the israeli government, israeli leadership, let's be clear here, mostly prime minister benjamin netanyahu

making the decisions to advance into rafah, with now, netanyahu being invited to a jet -- address a joint session of congress. >> the president did not make the invitation. that is coming from speaker mike johnson, and it's done, in a way, to embarrass the president, put pressure on the president. >> it was signed by both republicans and democrats. >> it was, because the republicans feel politically obligated to go along with it. they are trying to make the case that it's not a partisan issue, even though they perceive that to be what mike johnson is doing. it's this political gamesmanship in washington, were inviting prime minister netanyahu is a way of trying to put pressure on the democrats to say, see, they are not really for israel. remember, the president held back a weapons shipment a couple weeks back. he has discourage them from going into rafah in a complete ground operation. mike johnson is trying to say that republicans are the ones

that are really supporting netanyahu, not the president. there is a lot of political stuff going on. >> lets pivot, i want to talk about donald trump and the conviction. i know you spent a lot of time with him while writing your book. talk to me about what you expected his reaction when the conviction came down, and what you saw in trump tower yesterday during the press conference. >> i thought his reaction outside of the courthouse on the day he was convicted was, actually, pretty striking. you don't see former president trump in a deflated kind of way very often. he is usually full of vigor and energy and he came out of the courthouse and seemed defeated. if he expected it, he didn't give the impression that he did. he seemed quite brought down by it. yesterday, you saw, at least, a little of the old trump back. kind of a meandering, rambling statement, one that mixes attacks on the judge and witnesses and prosecutor. by the way, not on the jurors, the ones who actually made the

decision. he wasn't convicted by the judge or prosecutor. he was convicted by 12 members of a jury of his peers. he didn't talk about that. he mixed in his normal lines of grievance and victimhood, and conspiracy theories, it's not about me, it's about you. they are trying to stop me from taking their power away. it's all about biden, who of course, has no control over a state prosecutor whatsoever. that did not stop former president trump from laying that out, to explain to his supporters, why they should be focused more on the process against him, as opposed to his guilt. >> how do you expect the biden administration, and i should be more specific about this, the biden campaign, to use this conviction in the run-up to november, without playing into the political narrative that the president, former president donald trump is putting out there, that is, this was biden's department of justice, this was biden's doing, this was biden going after his political opponent?

>> i think you put your finger right on it. there is a real risk, as they see it, of looking like they are exactly what donald trump says they are, that they are just masterminding some sort of a political persecution, political witchhunt, which of course, there is no evidence of that at all, but it is true that alvin bragg is a democrat. it's true that the justice department is mounting two federal cases against former president trump, but there is no evidence that biden has anything to do with it. these are professional prosecutors, professional judges, and obviously, the jury was picked with the help of the trump defense team, but you are right, the biden campaign also wants to talk about this on some level. democrats are quite eager for them to make the case that this is a dangerous situation. we are talking about a convicted felon in the white house. and so, they are going to try to find ways of digging at him. at the same time, they are saying, we know we are not going to win on that. most voters have already made their mind on that. they will in on issues like abortion rights, the economy, democracy, generally.

you can argue that the prosecution plays into that question of democracy. >> peter baker, thank you. appreciate it. how voters around the country are reacting to the verdict. we will be right back. ack. baby. oh! baby: liberty. how many people did you tell? only pay for what you need. jingle: ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ baby: ♪ liberty. ♪ oh, why leaffilter? it's well designed, efficient, i appreciate that. leaffilter's technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good, guaranteed. what more could you ask for? call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com. frustrated by skin tags? dr. scholl's has the breakthrough you've been waiting for. now there's an easier-to-use at home skin tag remover, clinically proven to remove skin tags safely in as little as one treatment. announcer what if you could whiten your teeth by simply brushing your teeth? now you can with smileactives, the teeth whitening breakthrough

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get paid back up to ninety percent on unexpected vet bills, use any vet, and cancel any time. fetch pet insurance. get your free quote today. i think it is politically motivated. i think he is probably guilty of having done that, but i don't think it was something that is, necessarily, an indictable offense. >> a witchhunt, but a witchhunt for what? he seems like he's guilty of everything. they are not really hiding it. >> you can ask 100 different americans what they think of the criminal conviction of donald trump, and you will probably get 100 different answers. we are about five months from the presidential election, if you can believe it. plenty of time for either president trump or present biden to capitalize on the moment. joining us from wisconsin, a county that trump won by only .3% in 2016.

nbc's shaq brewster. what are you hearing from voters? >> reporter: we came here to kenosha, hours after hearing the guilty verdict, because we wanted to go to a battle brown county in this battleground state. based on the conversations i have been having, you have been picking up on some patterns here. number one, this news has broken through. that is not always the case with stories we are talking about day in and day out, but this is something people said came through on their group chats, as they were scrolling through tiktok or instagram, they can recall the headline, they know how many counts, they know that donald trump was guilty, even if they don't know the particulars of the case. secondly, the guilty verdict, largely, reinforced how they feel about donald trump, and to some extent, how they feel about joe biden. i want to share with you one conversation that i overheard here in kenosha, two retired men, who happened to be arguing over the verdict.

i sat down with them and talk to them a little bit. here's a little bit of that exchange. >> i kind of thought he was going to get convicted. i really did. and, i was right. and, on all 34 counts, that is phenomenal. >> falsifying documents, do you believe he did that? >> i don't know if he, literally, did it, or somebody on his staff did it. that's the thing. i don't really know one way or the other on that. he may have known about it at some point in time, but i don't know if he said, hey, you've got to do this. >> stormy daniels, he knew about it. >> reporter: there was another conversation i had where they said, this conviction gave them pause, but it's not what they are going to make the decision on. i think that encapsulates this moment, where it may be a factor in how people vote, but folks are still looking at other issues that hit them a little bit closer to home. >> shaq brewster. thank you. important stuff.

at the top of the hour, everybody. whether donald trump's supreme court friends can bail him out. why some are saying that. we will be right back.

now today's other top stories but a major election shot for the ruling party for the african national congress lost his thirty-year majority in parliament. the same party that freed south africa from apartheid under nelson mandela. voters were angry over economic and social polities. the anc is looking for a way for including possible power-sharing prayer today's left off of bowling starliner spacecraft was scrubbed at the last minute in florida. a computer delayed the measurement crews are working right now to understand the cause. the next opportunity is tomorrow afternoon. a live look at hollywoo