we're up to 12 times faster than verizon, at&t, and t-mobile. and existing customers could even get up to triple the speeds... at no additional cost. it's ultimate speed for ultimate business. don't miss out on our fastest speed plans yet! switch to comcast business and get started for $49.99 a month. plus, ask how to get up to an $800 prepaid card. call today!

unprecedented moment. for the first time in american history, a former president has been convicted for his criminal behavior while still serving as the presumptive republican nominee for president. donald trump calls the verdict rigged and himself, quote, a political prisoner. news break. he's not in prison. maga outrage. trump's allies including the house speaker and several potential republican vice presidential candidates are blasting the verdict and unleashing dangerous rhetoric against the justice system and our democracy itself. but, no one is above the law. president biden warns these attacks are reckless and irresponsible while trying to keep his campaign focus on issues important to voters. we'll talk about it all. the prosecution, and the politics. with congresswoman maxine waters of california and the

reverend al sharpton. plus, michelle goldburg and tim miller. i'm jonathan capehart an this is the saturday show. and, an historic victory for american justice, accountability, and the rule of law. but a sad and solemn moment for the country. we find ourselves in uncharted territory. for the first time, a former american president and presumptive nominee for the 2024 republican nomination has been convicted of a felony. on thursday, a jury of donald trump's peers found him guilty on all 34 counts of falsifying business records in his new york election interference trial. now, the twice impeached former president remains indicted in three other criminal cases. but manhattan da alvin bragg

who was widely criticized for bringing the hush money election interference is the only prosecutor so far who has been able to hold trump criminally accountable before the november election. trump's sentencing is set for july 11th, just four days before the party plans to formally nominate him for a third time. at the republican national convention in milwaukee, wisconsin. remember, a conviction does not prevent trump from running for president. which means four times indicted on 88 counts, civilly convicted of sexual abuse could end up back in the white house. now here's the smallest of silver linings. since thursday's conviction happened in a state case, trump won't be able to use executive power to pardon himself if he wins another term. but not everyone is thrilled that the court system, at least for now, has caught up to the man once referred to as teflon

don. since the verdict, there has been a split screen of reactions to the outcome. on one side, earth one, folks are lauding the rule of law and the sacrifice with the 12 men and women of the jury. they spent weeks hearing from 22 different witnesses. deliberating more than nine hours. you know. exactly how our justice system is posed to function. in an alternate reality, earth 2, there has been a complete hair on fire maga meltdown. trump posted to social media in an all caps rage, i am the political prisoner of a failing nation. someone might want to tell him he is not technically a prisoner yet. in fact, he is at home in bedminister, new jersey as we

speak. he laid out a rolodex of grievances including attacking judge juan merchan and calling the trial rigged. >> this is a case where if they can do this to me, they can do this to anyone. these are bad people. this is a scam. this is a rigged trial. it shouldn't have been in that venue. we shouldn't have had that judge. >> and trump isn't ngis rigged, they are demanding retribution. >> this is a purely political exercise. not a legal one. >> this is the most outrageous travesty i have ever seen. the problem here is democrats have crossed a line in which now the court system isn't a political weapon and it will be hard for it to not come back the other way. >> this is a justice system that hunts republicans while protecting democrats. this was certainly a hoax.

a sham. it is clear vengeance is mine, sayeth the lord. the best way of making the world even is success is the best revenge. let's win. >> in his first public remark since the verdict, president biden stressed how dangerous the maga rhetoric has been around this trial and how important our justice system is. in times like this. >> the principling that no one is above the law is reafirearmed. it is dangerous, irresponsible for anyone to say this was rigged just because they don't like the verdict. our justice system has endured for 250 years. it is the corner stone of america. our justice system. the justice system should be respected. >> joining me now, democratic congresswoman maxine waters of california. the reverend al sharpton, host

of msnbc's politics nation, founder and president of national action network, author of righteous troublemakers. untold stories of the social justice movement in america. tim miller, host of the podcast and msnbc political analyst and michelle goldberg. opinion columnist at the new york times and an msnbc political analyst. this is fantastic to have all four of you on the show today. congresswoman waters, i'm starting with you, because you predicted years ago, you said i'm counting on stormy. your reaction to thursday's incredible verdict? >> thank you so very much for having us all on, today. let me say it's a sad day. i'm still shocked and amazed that his supporters would follow him with the lies and the distortions that he continues to give to the american people. he says it is rigged.

he says, if they can do this to me, they can do it to you. bringing in others to cover the lies that he is telling. i'm amazed that those who claim to be so patriotic are so unpatriotic. i'm watching not only what happened january 6th in washington dc. but what is happening now. and men and women in the republican party don't have the courage or the patriotism to stand up for democracy. this former president is wrong, when ever he loses, wherever he is loses, he'll say it is rigged. he will say somehow he doesn't deserve to have to be lawful. as the president said, no one is above the law.

those jurors on that jury are to be commended for what they have done. you had seven men and five women who stepped up to the plate and did the hard work and rolled out to america and told america the truth. this man is guilty. not one time, two times, three times, but on all 34 counts. that's amazing. >> right. 34 times. as you were speaking congresswoman, you probably weren't able to see him beforehand. but he was nodding in agreement when you were talking about republicans not having the courage to stand up for the truth, tim. what's up with these folks? >> i was nodding at when councilwoman waters was saying they were being unpatriotic. it used to be the republicans if you turn the flag upside down, and attacked the fbi and said that the u.s. justice system is rigged and that we are a banana republic, that

would have been anethema to people. now, these people sound like anarchists. they are authoritarian. they want to tear down the entire justice system. you had tim scott there in your lead in talking about how the justice system is hunting republicans. this is absurd. hunter biden starts trial in two days. >> when we play that sound byte of senator scott talking about you know, vengeance and everything, you were like whoa. >> i don't know how you tell your lies and then quote the bible. that was a little difficult for me. but let me say this. that i think we need to underscore. this whole case was about a man trying to cover his deeds.

he had been exposed with the access hollywood tape. where he talked about how you deal with women is to grope them and i'm cleaning up what he really said. but many americans have seen that. it would have probably defeated him in his own mind. he was saying lock her up. fast forward to now. now we find 34 felonies and you got republicans saying how dare you? that's how he got there. accusing somebody of a crime. and covering up his crime when there was no crime. and what's at stake for america is if hillary clinton had become president, we wouldn't have had three supreme court justices that overturned roe v. wade, hurt voting rights, and

turned down affirmative action. that was the difference for people that said voting doesn't matter. >> and michelle, let me bring you in here before we go to a break. it will be thanks to a remarkable testimony of a porn star he has done everything in his power to shame, silence, and discredit for eight years. >> yeah, and she has been through hell. and, has been so brave and so steadfast. and the fact that she testified at all is evidence of donald trump's unbelievable self- defeating stubbornness. there was actually no reason for her to testify, except at donald trump's defense insisted not only that there was nothing illegal about the hush money scheme, but that he hadn't slept with her at all. it is just lies on top of lies

which can be a little numbing in the political sphere. but we have seen that they don't work in the legal sphere. >> you know what? i want to bring up something that speaker johnson said. his reaction to the verdict. let's play that and then we will talk about it. >> i do believe the supreme court should step in. obviously. this is totally unprecedented and it is dangerous to our system. i think the justices are deeply concerned about that as we are. i think they will set this straight. but it is going to take a while. you're right. the process takes a while to play out. this will be overturned guys. there is no question about it. it is just going the take some time. >> tim, the supreme court, do they have any jurisdiction? what is he talking about? >> i mean, these guys have become so presumptuous, they really think the supreme court is a political arm that will just do their bidding.

that is how they act. that is how they treat this. that is how samuel alito acts when he thinks he can just go to fox and lie about the flag outside his house. no, they don't have any jurisdiction. that is just one lie about this whole process. tim scott, he said that the biden administration did this prosecution when it was da. there was no doj. either they don't understand the system or they are lying. >> what jumped out to me more than the entire thing of what the speaker just said is when he said i know many of them personally. >> that's right. well. i know many of them personally. implying that they and he are on the same page. that they are not going to make

a judicial decision. why would you say you know them personally when you say they ought to be ruling on fairness of law? >> on the merit. >> it is to confirm what many have suspected. these were political nominees based on some partisan commitment and that is why we have deep concerns about this court. >> everybody? >> congresswoman, real fast. >> okay. you started out talking about i have predicted this. i knew stormy was a very strong woman and she was not going to take it from donald trump. and she stepped forward detail by detail and i expected her to do that. because of her, this case has gotten to where it has gotten to and she was the one that caused them to discover that he had lied on and filed false documents. thank you. >> and don't go anywhere. because this whole panel is going to be back. we have a lot to talk about.

by later on, some perspective from nbc news historian michael about where americans go from here during an election season that could feel like flying an airplane into a hurricane. stay right here, you're watching the saturday show on msnbc. satdaury show on msnbc. you found it. the feeling of finding psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu; serious reactions can occur. sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections, cancers including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor.

tyk2 is part of the jak family. it's not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. there's only one sotyktu, so ask for it by name. so clearly you. sotyktu. my frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. our biggest challenge? uncertainty. hidden fees, surcharges... who knows what to expect! turn shipping to your advantage. keep it simple...with clear, upfront pricing. with usps ground advantage®. ♪♪ no, my denture's uncomfortable! dracula, let's fight back against discomfort. with new poligrip power max hold & comfort. it has superior hold plus keeps us comfy all day with it's pressure absording layer. time for a bite! if your mouth could talk it would ask for... poligrip. try killing bugs the worry-free way.

not the other way. zevo traps use light to attract and trap flying insects with no odor and no mess. they work continuously, so you don't have to. zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly. what if you could go from this to this. with just one step tresemmé silk serum. time for the ultimate humidity test. weightlessly smooth hair your turn. new tresemmé keratin smooth collection.

the panel is back with me. maxine waters of california. the reverend al sharpton. and msnbc political analyst tim miller and michelle goldberg. all right, i'm going to the political analysts first. michelle, i'm coming to you. before the verdict, larry hogan posted on twitter regardless of the result, i urge all americans to respect the verdict and the legal process. and then, after the verdict, the senior adviser on the trump campaign quote tweeted that saying you just ended your

campaign. how much of an albatross is this conviction of donald trump going to be for republican candidates down the ballot from trump? >> i would imagine. i think we have already seen some polling and it is still very early so it is hard to gauge. but most people approve of this conviction. i saw one poll today that said 49% of independents think that donald trump should drop out of the campaign as do i think around 15% of republicans. and so, yes. obviously, and it is not just this conviction. it is donald trump in general. we have seen over and over again, that the republican party is in a bind in many places. because on the one hand, you have the kind of candidates that donald trump and his movement will support. keep losing.

not universally, but they have lost many races. the kind of candidates that can win in blue states are an anathema. >> here is the devil's advocate. is this the right way to put it. someone suggested that maybe that quote tweet of hogan could help him in a blue state like maryland to show that he is independent of donald trump. but will that work when you are runing in a party that is doing a lot of anti-reproductive right things around the country and we have two reproductive right cases that the supreme court will probably go the wrong way on. >> hogan is a deep outlier. he is the only one not advancing the delusions. it is a unique situation. i think probably it could help him but the problem is he has so many land mines in front of

him. what will he say if trump wins begin, would you vote to convict? should he be allowed to pardon himself. there are a lot of questions where it is hard to be a republican and move away from trump in anyway. >> real quick, do you think he will be able to walk that dental floss? >> it will be very tough. >> now to the two democratic strategists here, if you will, is this a sound byte or a statement? this is a campaign statement. a biden campaign. the biden campaign writes the threat trump pose to our democracy has never been greater. he is running an increasingly unhinged campaign of revenge

and retribution. pledging to be a dictator an day one so he can regain and keep power. a second trump term means chaos. it is up to the american people to reject this in november. how should the biden campaign and democrats respond to this? there have been people saying why weren't they out there in minute one hammering away at the conviction when i'm of the mind, we have time. >> we not only have time, we have three other cases and i think they have to be careful not to make it look like what trump is trying to say, this is a political witch hunt. what we need to really raise is this was about saving this country from going into an entire authoritarian type of government which is what trump is trying to do. so the contrast of this is

striking to me. because had it not been for the civil voting rights movement, we would not be talking about reform. you would not have a black manhattan da that prosecuted this. and we wouldn't have had a black woman da in georgia. and a black judge in washington that will sit on the federal cases. had it not been for dr. king and jesse jackson. and maxine waters. so i'm proud that we are in the system. and we will make it work. and that is why i just had one of the central park five on my show. saying that it didn't work for me. now let's make it work for everybody fairly. that's why we didn't go down to the court march. we didn't go down and go in front of the gaggle of mics. because that's what they wanted. to say it was us that was forcing it. we let a jury hear the evidence. as congresswoman waters said, stormy stood up. call it stormy monday, but fuse

is just as bad. >> congresswoman waters, your name has been invoked several times. we will give you the last word. what do you think? >> let me say when i tweeted about trump talking about the constitution, i basically said in my tweet that he had disregarded the constitution. i got over a million .3 hits on that. i think the american people see through him. and, they will be guarded in how they deal with the election. let me just say this. i am worried that he is so divisive and that he is talking about retribution. and about revenge. and i think that is dangerous. he has even mentioned civil war saying there will be bloodshed. i will spend some time with the criminal justice system. with the justice system requesting them, tell us what's going on with the domestic

terrorists. are they preparing a civil war against us? should we be concerned? what is he doing with this divisive language? it is dangerous. and we are going to have to make sure that we understand that we are not at risk with this man talking in the way he is doing. this is not good for this country. but he does not care about democracy. he does not care about the constitution of the united states. he is in love with putin and russia and kim jong un and north korea and all of that. and so, it is not just that he is a criminal. this is a man who disrespects the constitution and democracy and we have to figure out what they are doing as domestic terrorists tried to take over the government january 6th. how far is this going to go? are they going to be attacking? whom are they going to attack? what are we going to do? i have to get on with trying to

get an investigation going. >> and with that, we have to leave it there. congresswoman maxine waters of california. reverend al sharpton. tim miller. michelle goldbergful thank you all very much for coming to the saturday show. when we return, now that a jury has convicted trump on 34 felony counts, what happens to him next is up to judge merchan. we will explain how the former president's behavior between now and july 11th could affect his sentencing. 1th could affect his sentencing. when your gut is out of balance, your body gives you signs. so if you're frustrated with occasional bloating... ♪♪ [stomach noises] gas... or abdominal discomfort... help stop the frustration and start taking align every day. align probiotic was specifically designed by gastroenterologists to help relieve your occasional digestive upsets. so you can enjoy life. when you feel the signs, it's time to try align.

old spice gentleman's super hydration body wash.

(whispered) vanilla and shea. 24/7 moisturization with vitamin b3. (knock on the door) are you using all the old spice? oops. ♪ (old spice mnemonic) ♪ donald trump responded to his first felony conviction exactly as you would expect. ranting against the justice system for more than half an hour. that tirade may have violated his gag order and potentially set trump up for a harsher sentence in new york. during his press conference yesterday, trump admitted he was still under a gag order in the new york election interference case. but that didn't stop him from

attacking the prosecution's star witness as a quote sleaze bag. >> imunder a gag order. nasty gag orderment i'm not allowed to use his name because of the gag order. but you know, he's a sleaze bag. everybody knows that. took me a while to find out. but he was effective. he did work. but he wasn't a fixer, he was a lawyer. >> the judge has already fined trump twice for lashing out at michael cohen. now trump is risking prison time with his post verdict vitriol. todd blanche says even that prison is a possibility. if the former president is looking to ensure judge juan merchan includes incarceration as part of his sentencing, then he is doing a really good job. joining me now, former federal prosecutor, thank you for coming to the saturday show. both sides will have a chance to weigh in on donald trump's

sentence. how likely are prosecutors to seek prison time? >> referee: is really ahearted question. i don't envy their position to be honest. whatever their predisposition is, i said this as the trial was going on and as trump was continueing the same sorts of comments and rants, he is increasing the odds that the prosecutors will ask for prison time and he is increasing the odds that judge merchan would send him to prison for a period of time. i don't want to say it is more likely than not. but this is definitely not helping him. >> let me have you read more tea leaves because judge merchan put trump organization cfo alan weisselberg behind bars despite him being a first time offender in his 70s so does that signal anything to you about trump's potential sentence. >> yes. it suggests that the prosecutors might be prepared to ask for prison time.

it is not entirely an accident that the prosecutors secured two different five-month prison terms for weisselberg. and if they wanted to see prison time for trump, one argument they could make which would be a fair one, was that weisselberg has served two prison terms for conduct he did in part to benefit trump. if you have trump's cfo going to prison for conduct that benefited trump, why should trump get off for some of that same conduct? that would be the argument if i were the prosecutors and i wanted to send trump to prison. that would be the argument that i would make. >> let me play for you something that i played in the last block. and this is speaker johnson talking about getting the supreme court involved in this. >> i do believe the supreme court should step in. it is dangerous to our system. i think the justices on the court, i know many of them personally. i think they will set this

straight. but it is going to take a while. you're right. the process takes a while to play out. this will be overturned guys, there is no question about it. it will just take some time. >> the key thing here, the supreme court should step in. is that a thing? >> it is unlikely. i mean, i have to say most of what the speaker just said is not accurate. i don't know how he is so confident of all of those things. it is a little unsettling. he contributed to politicizing this. so. you know, the likelihood of the supreme court getting involved, trump could exhaust his appeals. i know todd blanche said maybe we will go straight to the supreme court. the most disturbing thing to me about johnson's comment is how confident he is that the supreme court would weigh in for trump. that says more about his assessment for the politicized

nature of this court than it does about trump's conviction. >> uh-huh. yeah. his statement that i know the justices personally was very telling. last question for you. you once criticized da brag for even bringing this case. has the outcome of the trial changed your mind? >> you know, i still think that had the justice department done its job correctly, and investigated trump quickly on the 2020 election issue, when biden came into office, this case would never have been charged. it wouldn't exist. my position is this case shouldn't exist. but that is not alvin bragg's fault. it was never alvin bragg's fault that he filled this gap. i will say that i don't know if michael cohen did better than i expected. i thought he did pretty poorly. but as we have been going over this. i have been assessing people's conduct. i think that the prosecutors,

particularly joshua steinglass did a good job prosecuting this case. they inherited all the sorts of weaknesses that people like me were talking about. and i think they did a really impressive job litigating this case on behalf of the da's office. highly professional and highly efficient and organized way. >> as always, thank you very much for coming to the saturday show. >> thanking for having me. and next, today is june 1st, the first day of pride month. and we'll look at a massive effort to fight for lgbtq plus rights across the country. i'll talk to the ceo about his sweeping strategy say head on the saturday show. ad on the saturday show. we're still going for that nice catch. we're still going for that perfect pizza. and with higher stroke risk from afib not caused by a heart valve problem,... ...we're going for a better treatment than warfarin. eliquis. eliquis reduces stroke risk. and has less major bleeding.

over 97% of eliquis patients did not experience a stroke. don't stop taking eliquis without talking to your doctor as this may increase your risk of stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking, you may bruise more easily... ...or take longer for bleeding to stop. get help right away for unexpected bleeding or unusual bruising. it may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. the number one cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. ask your doctor about eliquis. [introspective music] recipes. recipes that are more than their ingredients. ♪ [smoke alarm] recipes written by hand and lost to time... can now be analyzed and restored using the power of dell ai. preserving memories and helping to write new ones. ♪

everybody wants super straight, super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it's a great product. it's going to help a lot of patients. ( ♪ ♪ ) start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. times may change, but somethings remain timeless. i've been using dove beauty bar more than 25 years. dove is 1/4 moisturizing cream. ♪♪ i feel silky smooth. ♪♪

♪♪ sandals jamaica sale is now on! with rates from $199 per person per night. visit sandals.com or call 1-800-sandals awkward question... is there going to be anything... -left over? -yeah. oh, absolutely. (inner monologue) my kids don't know what they want. you know who knows what she wants? me! with empower, we get all of our financial questions answered. so you don't have to worry. empower. what's next.

[ music ] ♪ which side are you on now, which side are you on. which side are you on now, which side are you on ♪♪ >> protesters filled the new hampshire state house urging governor sununu to veto anti- lgbtq legislation on his desk. they would roll back protections for transgender adults and require schools to notify parents of any lgbtq content in class. and on the same day as those demonstrations in new hampshire, the governor of south carolina celebrated his state's new ban on transgender health care. the palmetto state became the 25th state to outlaw best practice medical care for transgender youth. these restrictions reflect a surge in anti-lgbtq legislation across the country with the aclu tracking 500 bills so far this year. that's why on this first day of

pride month, the non-profit is launching a $180 million campaign to fight for lgbtq rights in court. it is the largest investment in the history of the lgbtq equality movement. joining me now is kevin jennings. thank you so much for coming to the saturday show. >> thanks for having me on. >> quickly, tell me about this campaign and how will this help land a legal challenge? >> there are now 25 states that passed restrictions on trans healthcare. that means lambda legal has a critical role to play. can lambda legal track down the laws in court? we are looking to our unstoppable future campaign to raise the funds to challenge as many of these laws as humanly possible by hiring additional attorneys who will enable us to

make sure hate doesn't become law. >> the u.s. is already breaking last year's record for the number of anti-lgbtq laws enacted. why is this happening now? >> i think this is cynical politics. the extreme right has figured out an issue where they can take advantage that a lot of people don't know trans people. are not aware of the struggles of trans people. they are passing off misinformation as truth. as a result, they are getting people whipped into a frenzy so i think that it is genuinely cynical politics. >> every time lambda has been part of a case before the supreme court, you have won. but how concerned are you that this supreme court with its 6-3 conservative super majority, will strip us on the rights?

justice thomas in the dobbs. so many cases. >> lambda is proud of our victories. we are also proud of the fact this court with only one change in personnel in 2020 ruled in the decision that you could not fire people based on gender identity or sexual orientation. that's why we have asked the court to consider a case where we are counsel. in tennessee, which is a situation where they have banned trans health care for young people. we have asking the court to overturn that ban and we are confident that we are on the right side of history. >> the president has called on congress repeatedly to pass the equality act. it is going nowhere. we all know that. but how would it improve the legal landscape for lgbtq americans if it were to pass?

>> i saw an interesting poll. over 70% of americans already thought there was a federal law that protected lgbtq plus people from discrimination. that is not true. the equality act was first introduced in 1974. 50 years ago, and congress has yet to act. it is absolutely critical that we pass the equality act, an enshrine in american law that discrimination based on gender identity and sexual orientation is not acceptable. >> the legal ceo kevin jennings, thank you very much for coming to the saturday show. >> thanks for having me on, jonathan. coming up, how worried americans can move forward after donald trump's guilty verdict and prepare for what promises to be an unprecedented election season. nbc news presidential historian michael beshlas joins me next to give me his thoughts. you're watching the saturday show on msnbc. e saturday show on msnbc. opens my nose for maximum air flow. so, i breathe better. and we both sleep better.

and stay married. (bell ringing) someone needs to customize and save hundreds with liberty mutual! (inaudible sounds) (elevator doors opening) wait, there's an elevator? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, ♪ ♪ liberty. ♪ first, we did the impossible. then, you ate so many of the impossible that we completely ran out. and now... ♪♪ they're backk! the footlong cookie is back at subway!

(wife) saving for retirement was tough enough. (husband) and navigating markets can be challenging at times. (fisher investments) i understand. that's why at fisher investments, we keep a disciplined approach with your portfolio, helping you through the market's ups and downs. (husband) what about communication? (fisher investments) we check in regularly to keep you informed. (wife) which means you'll help us stay on track? (fisher investments) yes. as a fiduciary, we always put your interests first. because we do better when you do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different.

from pep in their step to shine in their coats, when people switch their dog's food to the farmer's dog, the effects can seem like magic. but there's no magic involved. (dog bark) it's just smarter, healthier pet food. it's amazing what real food can do. as we continue our coverage of donald trump's guilty verdict in his new york trial, it is important to emphasize the historic unprecedented moment our country is in. never before has a former american president been indicted and convicted in a criminal case. let alone while running for president again. our nation has never seen anything like this. but a look back at our history might offer some clues about how to move forward. so, let's ask michael, nbc news presidential historian and author of presidents of war.

michael, as always, thank you very much for coming to the show. >> great to be together as always. thank you. >> we have a guilty verdict against the former president on 34 criminal counts while he is also running for president. there is no legal or political precedent for what we are witnessing. but how does this compare to other destabilizing moments in our history? >> i think is choice is pretty clear. in days of yore, if a convicted felon had run let's say for alderman which was probably about as high as he or she would have aspired until the last couple of decades, that person would have said i served my time. i learned my lesson. i have remorse. there will be no one more zealous than i am in enforcing our legal system. instead, you and i saw that rant at the bottom of the brass elevator at trump tower yesterday by the presumed

republican nominee this year. and he is saying the system is rotten. i want to dismantle parts of the constitution. i think that people should not respect the law. so when you have someone promising at the same time to be dictator for a day, it will never be for a day as you know. it will be for four years, if not for his lifetime if that begins. at the same time he is saying i'm going to dismantle our rule of law which is the glory of america, keeps the peace, assures fairness when it works for all americans. you have dictatorship and anarchy at the same time. do you think the majority of americans will vote for dictatorship and anarchy? >> i don't think so either but we have seen some things. so the founding fathers seemed

to have prepared for every threat to the republic, but they didn't appear to have a convicted felon running for president on their bingo card. would they be appalled by what happened on thursday? meaning this former president, current candidate for president convicted on felony charges by a jury of his peers? >> most of the founders would cry if they saw what donald trump has been accused of and now convicted of. 34 felonies. because they assume when the constitution was written and you and i know these founders were by no means perfect people, but they thought they would establish a system to keep convicted criminals out of the presidency. they assumed everyone who ran would have decurrency and love

of country. they established a system. electoral college. other things. as well as an american public that would not willingly vote for a convicted criminal to be their president. they thought that was so unlikely, you can read the record of the constitutional conviction in philadelphia. there is not one word about what should we put in the constitution to make sure no convicted criminal becomes president? that's how far the country has come. but i don't think an elected criminal will be elected. >> so what do we do to make sure we get through with this your republic intact? there are calls for political violence and retribution. >> this will be a five month period or more of the kind that we have never seen before.

sadly. we should brace ourselves and expect the worst. hostile countries that want trump elected. upheaval fomented in the cities so donald trump can say to the suburban women, let's say outside philadelphia, you may not like me, but without me, you will not have law and order. expect this if we are lucky, it won't happen. if we are not lucky, it will, people understand this is a choice between joe biden who loves democracy. and donald trump who wants to bring you both dictatorship and anarchy at the same time. make sure that people understand that is our choice. >> even shorter, keep your eyes on the prize. michael, thank you very much. as always for coming to the

saturday show. the first grandmother and understated hero of the obama white house, remembering her. we'll be right back. emembering we'll be right back. restoration. learn how at tedhelp.com. my frequent heartburn had me taking antacid after antacid all day long but with prilosec otc just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. [ doorbell rings ] you must be isaac. for onecome on in.eartburn relief, prilosec otc. [ sighs ] here's my pride and joy. [ romantic music plays ] ♪♪ beautiful stair renovation, sir. and they're covered with your home and auto bundle

with progressive, so you get round-the-clock protection. so, is gabby coming down? oh, she said she'll meet you at the prom.

sfx: [screams] [crowd gasps] bleeding gums are serious, jamie... dr. garcia? whoa! they're a sign of bacterial infection. crest gum detoxify's antibacterial fluoride works below the gumline to help heal gums and stop bleeding. crest saves the day! crest.

finally tonight, a woman known as the first grandmother. michelle obama's mother, marian robinson, passed away peacefully yesterday in her hometown of chicago. she was 86.

she was the rock of the obama family and was always there to support them, and even moved to washington, d.c., to help her daughter and granddaughters adjust to their new life in the white house. in a statement, the family's right, at every step as our families went down paths none of us could've predicted, she remained our refuge from the storm, keeping our feet on solid ground. i had the pleasure of spending a fun night with her a couple of summers ago. i loved the time i got to spend with her then. i will treasure it now forever. she was beloved by her family and friends and she will be dearly missed. rest in peace, misses robinson. thank you for watching tonight. congressman jerry nadler will weigh in on the criminal conviction tomorrow at 6:00 p.m.