help the judge and judge's decision on the sentence. what can you tell us about that? >> yeah. it's filed and it's still kind of old school in the criminal term in manhattan. it's filed with the court. it's called the investigation and sentencing period and when the sentencing report is filed, the defense, prosecution and court will get it and the report is in the official court file. >> catherine christian, absolutely essential to have you with us here tonight. thank you so much. >> sure. we've got much more ahead next hour as our coverage continues of the historic conviction of former president donald trump, a unanimous jury verdict today convicted on all 34 felony counts. i'll be right back.

republicans and right-wing media are raging over trump's verdict, vowing vengeance and lyrical retribution, and another state department official resigns in protest of president biden's gaza policy. stacy gilbert joins us. let's do this. donald trump's guilty verdict on all 34 felony carts of falsifying business records comes five months and four days before the most divisive presidential election of our time, and as a jampacked calendar in the final stretch to november. starting with the debate between trump and biden, set for this month, june 27th. two weeks after that on july 11, trump will be back in court

for sentencing in his hush money case, trump's charge of falsifying business records, a felony, is punishable by up to four years in prison but legal expert say there's no guarantee that he will get present time, given that this is his first criminal conviction. and for a nonviolent crime. the republican national convention will convene in milwaukee to formally don -- nominate donald trump as the republican candidate. we have never been here in this country. we are talking about trump here, someone who has already lowered the bar who has been impeached twice and as trump does, he's doubling down on his claims of being victimized by what he calls a rigged system, blaming everyone under the sun, for his own actions. friday the day after the verdict drop, trump gave a

rambling word salad response from trump tower in new york. >> it's a rigged, it was a rigged trial, it's a very sad thing that's happening in our country and it's a, it's a thing that i'm honored, in a way i'm honored because somebody have to do it and i might as well keep going. >> might as well keep going and be the one, what a hero, his devout followers actually believe that, so much so that the verdict is helping trump fund raise, it was just 24 hours after he was convicted his campaign said, it raised $53 million in donations and his supporters in congress are rallying behind him, too. house speaker johnson says the supreme court should step in to overturn trump's guilty verdict. the house judiciary chairman jim jordan is demanded that new york prosecutors alvin bragg and matthew angelo appear at a hearing on the quote, weaponization of the federal government, and the unprecedented political

prosecution of trump. despite the fact that biden is present, has no authority over state courts. however biden is weighing in on the verdict saying trump's conviction show that no one is above the law in this country. and he said this. >> it's reckless, it's dangerous, it's irresponsible for anyone to say this was rigged, just because they don't like the verdict. >> kicking off our coverage tonight, danny ceballos, and molly john fast. thank you all for being here tonight. danny, let's start with mike johnson, he already said there will be a appeal, which we now and donald trump will absolutely win it.

when he said i want the supreme court to get involved, what is he talking about? >> there's no guarantee any direct appeal or any appeal from this conviction would land at the supreme court. it might if constitutional issues are raised but it's not an appeal, there's not even an appeal to the highest state appellate court in the state of new york which is called the court of appeals. so you need a federal constitutional reason to get into the supreme court. >> does that not apply to this, he was not president during the things that he was alleged to have done. >> he was when he wrote the checks that reimbursed michael cohen. some of the events happened after the election but to the extent, the immunity issue could potentially affect all of these cases. it's not likely to affect this case and we really don't know what the supreme court is going to say on the immunity case. so we are waiting, and all i can

tell you is that i don't think either side is going to get exactly what they want, i don't think the federal prosecutors are going to get the supreme court to say there's no such thing as presidential immunity and i don't think the trump side will get a decision it says that everything a president does is okay. they have to find out what the contours are of presidential immunity. it has nothing to do with conviction at least procedurally, this will be appeal directly to the appellate court of appeals in the new york state court system. >> when you wake up, it's nice to have danny answer questions like that, it was nice and had a lot of information and lisa you were in court the whole time. for those of us not in court, we got a lot of flavor about trump falling asleep, and bodily functions, things like this but we didn't know how this was going to go with the

jury because in a fair trial, you don't know how it'll go, obviously evidence was overwhelming, what is your sense of how the jury responded to the actual things that were being presented by the lawyers, in particular the very too long closings. >> what's become clear is in the moment, when we are living through these plot twists of the long closing argument from the prosecution and joshua steinglass and then these notes from the jury, in the press room, we were trying to read what are these smoke signals, but with the benefit of 48 hours, what is clear is these closing arguments from the prosecution that got a lot of blowback, they were to long and too granular, the actually the jury really heard it. and if you look back at what the jury note said, they were almost in conversation with

joshua steinglass, he spent a lot of time talking about this, he said we didn't choose michael cohen, we didn't go to the witness store and pick him off the shelf. you don't need to want to be in business with him, what you need to do is look at the documents, the documents don't lie or forget. look at the other cooperating witnesses and the first jury note, what did they ask for, they asked for three experts, four experts, of testimony, three of the four were david , so they were hearing what steinglass glass had to say, if you don't like cohen, don't take his word for, take someone, another witness and they seemed to be leaning into taking word. they also said he steinglass spent a lot of time talking about the secret audio recording where they discussed

the money, and he had another powerful moment when he said there was some debate about whether the audiotape had been manipulated and he said to the jury, go back into the room and play the tape as many times as you need to and as loudly as you need to. because this is jaw-dropping evidence, that the word he used. and what did they ask for? they asked for headphones and that was sort of, well we were so consumed with the excerpts of the testimony that they wanted to hear back that the headphone things went through the cracks but at the time that was interesting. we don't know exactly what audio they were listening to but steinglass spent a considerable amount of time saying, play the tape back, listen to it, turn up the volume and then they asked for headphones. that's an interesting thing. and the other thing is that steinglass spent a lot of time in his final crescendo saying

turn down the volume, don't listen to the politics, look at the evidence and what you can infer from the evidence, and when we got the second jury note, what they asked for was specifically to be read back the part about inference, and how inference works and they actually said, we explicitly want you to read back the rain metaphor and judge merchan had read this when he was reading the very technical jury instructions, he had read this, he had given them a metaphor about rain and the metaphor was, -- >> yeah, it's in all the jury instructions, if you go outside and someone comes in and says, if you can infer that it's raining. >> the fact that he used the letter i word a lot, inference, say that again, the rain metaphor, that is very interesting, i think what that

says is in the moment, the day of the closing arguments, there was a lot of, this is long, this is technical, this went on too long. the jury was getting antsy, and there was a lot of questions like did that backfire, but the jury instructions seem to have said that they heard steinglass and it works. >> molly i saw a poll that said 67% of people are not affected by the outcome of this case , that leads me to believe that these people had already made their mind up. for people who don't like trump, or believe that this is a guy who has abated accountability for a long time, what is the level of satisfaction for them and what do they do about it? >> i think what biden said was

right, he said the law is the law for whoever and trump is running as an autocrat and he is attacking the rule of law, attacking the constitution, he's attacking our norms so what biden did was very smart, because this is not a victory for him. he was not involved. this is a victory for the rule of law. for the jury system, they have these jurors, some got news from one place and in the end they listened to the case, trump's lawyers were allowed to kickoff jurors, same with the prosecution. it's the way it is for every other criminal defendant and i think that is what is really important. democrats have a big problem which is, they are one party that still believes in american democracy. republicans have gone all in on trump-ism. unbelievably so and there are very few normal republicans who, we saw one comment from larry hogan but mostly everyone -- >> asa hutchinson and terry hogan. i mean this is crazy stuff, so

what biden needs to do is unfortunately for him he needs to stand for norms, and that's what he's doing, so i think that is very smart. >> that's about the most unsexy is to thing i've heard. >> but he is very normal. he is may be the perfect guy for this moment. >> this business of, you've defended clients, tell me about this line between not liking the verdict, not trusting the verdict and not trusting the system. i'm sure everybody who gets a verdict that doesn't go their way doesn't like it and wants to appeal it. but i'm sure that people say they have the wrong information. but we are way past this with trump and his acolytes. >> every criminal defendant who elects to go to trial rather

than guilty, believes they did nothing wrong. believes that the prosecution has it out for them or that they are being persecuted. that's why you go to trial instead of taking a guilty plea and trump is no different in that sense, in the same way he's no different from a defendant who after he's convicted is not happy about it or feels that the prosecution and maybe the judge was aligned against them. that's fine and not accepting a verdict is why we have appeals. sometimes convictions are overturned, harvey weinstein, a gigantic case was overturned may be a month ago, three weeks ago, so big cases do get overturned because defendants do not accept the verdict. what criminal defendants would probably would like to do, and some of them do but no one is really listing on the level that trump is and that's what i'm getting too, donald trump has a higher duty as a former president and a politician and

a possible future president to not attack the very system that he is seeking to be a part of. but the justice system is something that any president should seek to support and uphold, even if he is a victim. you could make the statement, by the way, biden could make the same complaint that his son is being persecuted i will say a corrupt administration, that's his but that the prosecutors have it out for hunter biden and he has an argument there. hunter biden is charged under a subsection of the gun statute that is virtually never charged. so look, no criminal defendant is ever happy with the outcome when it's a guilty verdict but that's why we have the appeals process. later on, once that's concluded if it hasn't gone in your favor, you can challenge the assistance of your attorney, you can see my attorney didn't do a good job. finality in the appellate process is really a long road, it happens sometimes decades later. i have cases that happened two

decades ago. so we have a system that gives the innocent to the extent we jail innocents, every opportunity to assert that innocent and appeals court, going out and giving press conferences when you are the possible future and again president of the united states, it's not great. >> what's even more norms shattering is the speaker of the house, saying that the supreme court should, and remember he serves at the pleasure of -- >> this one surprised me, of all the people that came out, mike johnson coming out did surprising. thanks to all of you, great to see you all. lisa, first time on tv but we talk all the time about everything else, she's a real guide to me in my editorial world. after trump's conviction, republicans turned from law and order to pensions and should be shown, that's next. that's next

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republicans love to call themselves, the party of law and order, and when it comes to the historic felony conviction of trump they've been singing a different tune. >> what we saw today was an absolute travesty of justice. i am both furious and heartbroken at the same time. >> i believe the supreme court should step in, this is totally unprecedented and it's dangerous to our system. >> we should not mince words here. this is an extremely dangerous day for our country . >> wow, now a group of senate republicans led by mike lee of utah have announced they will no longer cooperate with any democratic legislative priorities need to subpoena judge merchan and his daughter and quote, punish them.

where are we living? these are the mainstream values of the republican party. danny and molly are back with me. danny, as we discussed earlier, there are questions of law, process, all of which have a system to address them. this is crazy, this is a whole bunch of people who were not sitting in the courtroom, suggesting that they are going to start to cease the function of the federal government until something is done to those who were involved in the prosecution of donald trump. >> there are a lot of ways to look at this, i question whether or not it was a prosecution that might not have been brought, after all i point to the fact that the das office had to commission an outside law firm to tell them whether their theory of liability was actually a crime so i think

it's a fair thing to say even though reasonable minds might disagree that this is a case that has a shot on appeal on issues of law. where it gets strange for me is other people who were not involved in congress, threatening to hold the country hostage procedurally, because they are not happy with the outcome of a criminal case. it's okay to be unhappy with the outcome, guess what, happens to me a lot, more than i would like to say. i'm often unhappy with the outcome of my own criminal cases by the way to go is appeal, we have a process, we have a procedure. >> you don't go home and say you are not feeding your family as a result. >> right. and there are so many opportunities on appeal. the odds are against you when you are a criminal defendant but there are real legal issues in this case, once they get to the appellate division.

the testimony of stormy daniels, not sure they preserved their objections on the defense but the law itself, whether or not maybe it's constitutionally vague, whether or not it provides fair notice or allows for due process, those are all fair avenues for appeal. >> if i was hearing all this, that would be a different story. but we've been hearing about how this is a politicized persecution. >> these are people who want to be donald trump's vp or who are scared of trump because we know what happens to people who don't please donald trump, they get knocked like the jurors, they are calling some of trump's allies are calling for that, i mean, so obviously they are mad at the judge, look, republicans threatening to be obstructionist is one of the funniest things i've ever heard

because they've been obstructionist this whole time. >> what nomination are you holding up now? >> i love they will subpoena all these people because these republicans ignore their subpoenas, remember when the january 6th committee subpoenaed all of these republicans and they didn't show up? i'm curious how this works. look, these republicans are really running against the rule of law. which is scary and dangerous and to turn your party against the american judicial system by the way, trump has managed to punt three of these four cases. i mean, he has poured millions of donor dollars into delay, delay, delay. so it's not as if he has really had you know, things happen in quick succession. >> jim jordan of ohio chairs the weaponization of government committee. he has talked to -- >> the new committee they started. >> which makes a lot of sense if that's what it was about but it looks like it is a committee

to weaponized the government. they have asked alvin bragg to come and testify, jb vance wants to subpoena the judge and his daughter and i go back to the same question, if i were listening saying here are the problems of the case, here's what i would do, that is one conversation. what is this conversation about? >> look, if you were to spend a roulette wheel of judges in manhattan, you're going to get probably a judge who is a registered democrat, that is the way life is in cities in the court houses. if you want someone who is a registered republican, you have a better chance if you go out to some of the rural counties, that's the rule across the country, city areas, a lot of democrats, outside, you get a lot of publicans, the mere case that this was brought in manhattan, the odds were that he was going to have a democrat.

now, we do have a system for raising issues of recusal or bias, and sometimes, you have to make that motion. it's not an easy motion to make and you're asking a judge to look inwardly and say we think you are too biased, not surprisingly a lot of these motions are denied but in this case there really wasn't anything from the outside that suggested that this judge was so biased that he had to recuse himself. it's problematic, from an optics perspective, it may be problematic that his dog -- daughter was involved in democratic politics. they think they are political creatures but once they put on the ropes, understandably, you say it's the judge and we trust the judge -- >> but trump has a maga judge

working on the documents case -- >> he doesn't speak ill of her. >> the bottom line this is, sometimes you have a judge who you feel is in your favor and sometimes you don't, there's not a single lawyer on trial who's on trial and doesn't think one way or another. i think we got this judge or we don't, frankly as a defense attorney i'm being biased and paranoid, it often feels like a lot of the judges are former prosecutors, i've done it where i think in a trial, wrongly so, this judge has it out for me. it's a natural thing to do but i realize, it is a bug, it's not a feature, so, what is going on here, claiming merely because a judge may be a registered democrat and that makes him to bias, that is going to be an uphill battle even when the defendant was someone who was a former and possibly future president of the united states. >> i don't know where you are

watching all of this news come in, we had fantastic coverage on msnbc. so maybe you missed some of the posts on another network, let's get your take on that. >> we have gone over a cliff in america, revolution is in our dna, we are fighters and i hope it's at the ballot box. >> i guess we all need to shop at banana republic from now on because that's what it feels like. >> these evil men and women will be vanquished, and the injustice rectified. >> these evil men and women will be vanquished, that's some good stuff there. >> shapiro's husband was paneled by donald trump. she talks to him all the time, she's his buddy, also, he pardoned i think he's her ex- husband, that was a thing she wanted. so i do think that there is some conflict here. the fact that they are all saying the same thing and they

were alternating between two different messages, one was, this is terrible for american democracy, it's wrong, it's wrong, the other was, this just helps them, you are going to see, more swing voters in wisconsin are dying to have a convicted felon as president, that's all they want and they kept saying these two things and you cannot shop both of these ideas. you can't say this helps them and we need the supreme court to overturn this. you've got to pick a lane. >> laura ingram called me a dimwit last week. she's not wrong. >> you are not a dimwit to me my friend. and it's great to have you both. all right, can trump run for president as a convicted felon, a presidential historian is here next.

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felony convictions become president? the constitution contains eligibility requirements but the founding fathers didn't think to block candidates with criminal records. if trump does end up behind bars, he wouldn't be the fun first to run for office while in prison, that was party nominee eugene debs who ran for president in 1920 while serving a federal sentence for encouraging orders to resist the world war i draft. this time the circumstances could not be more different. joining me now is michael beschloss, good to see you twice today. >> my honor. >> let's start with eugene debs. there are in fact a lot of differences . >> right, first of all debs of course was a socialist and not a nominee of one of the two major policies and he was in

prison on a matter of principle because woodrow wilson had passed when i would agree with debs, which were repressive laws against americans, free expression, during world war i and he had violated this to show his peaceful protest and he was jailed. and so he campaigned from prison but he wasn't saying, this system is rigged and i've been a victim of unfairness by a prosecutor or a judge or jury's, what debs said was i did this as a statement of conscious and people should understand why i'm doing that and factor that into your vote and actually got quite a few votes. >> it's a pole position, if i were a supporter of donald trump, could i say that he is taking a principled position. he called himself a political prisoner of a failing nation. i don't know, gandhi comes to mind, nelson mandela comes to mind, there are lots of those,

what is your reaction to trump calling himself a political prisoner? >> my reaction is you live long enough you get to hear everything and that is testing the envelope here. donald trump is a political prisoner, okay. the statement of political principle i guess, is paying off porn stars , well then he's an example of a political prisoner, someone else that our founders wanted a presidential candidate of conviction, but not criminal convictions. >> you treated something that was interesting -- tweeted something, suggesting that he is not showing a lot of remorse for the behavior that brought him those criminal convictions, in fact is not showing any whatsoever. what struck you about the

language that trump has used since the verdict was announced? >> no major party nominees in the more than two centuries of american history, not only, has there been no one his been a convicted felon, that's for sure, and at the same time, you know, on top of that, there hasn't been a nominee who says, elect me and i will dismantle your rule of law because it's rotten, i don't like the constitution, i want to cancel parts of that and so the result is, you've got someone who is promising to be a dictator for a day and we know it's not going to be for a day, in order to bring you no more rule of law which means anarchy, so anyone who once a dictator who once anarchy, should vote for trump. >> we are trying to figure out how many votes this changes. it's very unclear.

but let's talk about donald trump's base, they have stuck with him, regardless, but he is really using that language, you and i were talking about it this morning, the language that mussolini used, the language that a lot of these dictatorial sorts use about, i'm here between them and you, i am your adventure, i am your retribution. >> well, and donald trump is not hitler but hitler used the same language and hitler was jailed in the 1920s and exploited that to say that he too, was a prisoner of conscience. i don't think anyone is going to fall for that. one of the surprises to me, you are wiser than i am, so it's not a surprise to you is there was a hole in the last 24 hours that shows that i think 15% of republicans think that donald

trump should drop out of the race because a convicted felon should not be running for president. and about half of independent voters are saying that this is a dealbreaker for them. those are higher numbers than i expected. >> a lot of things hinge on what happens on july 11th in the sentence, and a lot of smart people say that he may not get any prison time for this whatsoever. but why do you think happens from there on in because that's when he officially becomes a convicted felon, and no turning back, because that is right on the heels of the republican convention at which he will be nominated. >> that's exactly right and he has captured his party, he has installed his daughter-in-law as the head of the republican national committee so my guess is that there's not going to be a republican national committee resolution to suggest that he should get off of the ticket. in 1972 the democratic national

committee after thomas eagleton the vice presidential nominee resigned from the ticket because it had been revealed that eagleton had suffered from depression and had three instances of electroshock, nothing like that is going to happen although legally, it could have happened if the republican party were not so enthralled by donald trump, so if the morning consult pull up today and it's just one poll means anything, and also senator murkowski of alaska has suggested that this is not the strongest nominee the republicans can put forward, if donald trump's support especially among independent voters begins to diminish, you know, the so-called women outside of philadelphia whose an independent who says, some things about trump's program i like but i'm not going to vote for any convicted felon, the republicans may have saddled themselves with this. i can't bring myself to believe what a majority of americans

are going to vote for, is a convicted felon who is promising dictatorship and anarchy. >> michael, i appreciate it. you've been on tv a lot today. >> i will speak with stacy gober, the latest effort to resign over the president's handling of the war in gaza. in gaza.

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this week another state department official resigned and protested president biden's gaza policy. stacy gilbert who has over 20 years experience in u.s. policy toward global crises joins the growing number of officials in the state, defense, education and interior departments to quit their post since the war in gaza started following the october 7th attack on hamas, she's accusing the biden administration of falsifying a report to shield israel of

responsibility for blocking humanitarian aid into gaza, she writes, quote, i can't continue working for a government that denies and is enables carnage in gaza. stacy gilbert is my next guest. t ♪ ♪ welcome to the roots of our legacy. where excellence, comfort, and electricity... are forever in bloom. welcome to beyond. the mercedes-maybach eqs suv. ( ♪♪ ) my name is jaxon, and i have spastic cerebral palsy.

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military installed on the coast of gaza, the pier designed to bring humanitarian aid to palestinians lasted less than two weeks due to bad weather. haydn immediately faced questions when he unveiled plans for the pier among them, why does the united states need to spend the money to deliver aid, why not just compel israel to allow more aid to enter gaza given the degree to which america finances israel. this weekly united nations report that deliveries to gaza have decreased by 67% since the closure of the rafah closing on may 7th, two more members of the biden administration resigned this week. one of the officials is stacy gilbert who until this week was a senior advisor at the euro of population, refugees and migration. stacy gilbert joins me now. thank you for being with us. >> thanks. >> yours is not a performative thing, you are too far into your career for performative

moves like this. the point is that there has been a remarkable level of internal dissent amongst experts like yourself in various parts of the government and it hasn't been listened to. the thing that caused you to leave was that you did express your concerns and what happened? >> yeah, so, the genesis of my move was actually a result of a report, a joint report that the department of state and the department of defense had to submit in response to a request from the white house. and that report was supposed to assess various countries on two things. their ability to adhere to international humanitarian law also known as the geneva conventions or the law of war and whether or not they facilitate and not obstruct

humanitarian assistance. israel was one of the countries, the other countries where were assessing, there was discussion and debate about but not nearly on the level that we debated and discussed these issues regarding israel. the subject matter experts are absolutely in agreement that israel is blocking humanitarian assistance. there is no doubt about that. and i was very involved in writing the report up to a certain level but at some point, the subject matter experts were removed from the report, it was moved to a higher level and i myself did not see it until it was released on may 10, when it was released, i was actually on the point of israel's adherence to israel's humanitarian law and i was surprised because the

report concluded as far as i know the first time the u.s. has admitted that israel is probably using u.s. weapons to violate international humanitarian law. but, i was shocked to see that it stated very clearly that we assess that israel is not blocking humanitarian assistance. that is patently false. that is not the opinion, it's not just not the opinion, there is data that is showing that israel is blocking humanitarian assistance. >> i'm glad you've given this description. the point i'm trying to make is that there are a lot of people mad at how the biden administration is handling this who are not subject matter experts. you are actually talking from the perspective of someone involved in the process. you and other experts came to that determination and suddenly prove, that is not in the

report. it happened above your pay grade so what do you feel happened, is that the white house and the executive saying this is what the result has to be, who is responsible for something like that happening. >> the bottom line, it's a joint report from the department of state and the department of defense. so, at some point, someone higher up than me, made that determination and disregarded the data, the evidence, the recommendations from the subject matter experts and to me, i've been in government a long time. i've written reports that i'm not proud of but this is not that. this is consequential.

this is critical. it is a joint report from the state department and dod to congress. this is not a small point. it is absolutely shocking. >> it's central actually to who we are and what role we play. it's not another unrelated country and what they are doing. this is one who receive's arms and material from the united states. when we provide assistance to countries, they are not working against our interest in providing humanitarian aid to the victims of whatever's going on and that's what the political argument is, we are building this stupid pier, we don't need to build the pier, there were probably 10 other ways we could get stuff into gaza that doesn't involve this thing that you are looking at. but what happens, i read a book

called small act of courage. you are a 20 year veteran of the government. what are you hoping happens that enough people hear your story and are moved to it because you have now left your government job? >> i am able to leave because i know my opinion is shared by many others. if i were the only one who thought this i would stay in government and keep fighting it but i'm in a unique position having worked on this report, being a subject matter expert. i'm in a unique position to step outside of government and say, this is wrong, this is absolutely wrong, and it helps my colleagues to say, she's right. i'm doing it for my colleagues, i'm doing it for the humanitarian organizations that are working in gaza, they wrote saying that israel is

blocking humanitarian assistance. this report essentially says, it's not israel's fault, it is their fault or they don't have the capacity, it is dangerous, it's complicated but these are professional organizations that do this in conflicts and natural disasters all over the world. they know how to do it. they know how to work in conflicts and dangerous situations. they are not allowed to do it because israel prevents them. so i'm doing it to stand up for them. >> it's a big and courageous move. thank you for coming here and telling us the details about what was behind it. we will follow your story with great interest. thank you for joining us.

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