podcasts, and you can find our best interviews on youtube. stay tuned. inside with jen psaki begins now. this is revealing something darker. we will break down what happened this week and what happens next. and the verdict would not have been possible without the central witness. we will talk about the attacks against her client. and the last time i sat down with james coney, he said that

he could be convicted. and how does the biden campaign plan to meet this moment. i will talk with michael tyler. on thursday evening a jury of 12 americans delivered a verdict finding the former president guilty on 34 accounts. and that was historic. no former president has ever been criminally tried let alone convicted. but it was also important because it confirms that the legal system has the capacity to hold any american accountable no matter who they are. and while it's proof that the legal system functions as it should, it exposed how broken the republican party is right now.

in the aftermath of the conviction, the majority of the party lined up behind him to attack the judicial system. take mike johnson. he's second in line for the presidency. he called the verdict absurd and said his friends on the supreme court should overturn the conviction. >> i believe the supreme court should step in. this is dangerous to our system. the justices on the court, i know many of them personally, i think they are concerned about that. i think they will set this straight. >> mike johnson is saying, and i think this is important to repeat. i know these guys and they are on our team and they will set things straight. then there was a congressman who said this. >> what is your reaction. to respect what the jurors had to say? >> no, i don't.

i think this is the jury's fall.>> his take is that it was the fault of the regular citizens, who did their civic duties. and then there were those who used this as a moment to promise retribution. >> how do we work together to protect ourselves from the illegal prosecutions and what do we do to fight back? how do we make them suffer if they're going to illegally prosecute us?>> that was ken paxton. the attorney general of texas saying the appropriate response to a legitimate prosecution by a jury is to make them suffer. these are not just the sycophants. take susan collins who said, the district attorney brought these charges because of who the defendant was rather than because of specific criminal conduct.

they once credits in themselves as being defenders of the law. now, the attacks are not only undermining the faith in the justice system, they are dangerous to those serving in it . consider what trump said this morning. but people don't want to be impeached or indicted. by these scoundrels -- china and russia, we have a problem from within that's bad. >> we know he loves authoritarian dictators. but think about that. he said the people holding him accountable are worse than the autocratic regimes that are actively targeting the u.s. it is clear he's not going to and the assault on the rule of law. all of that in his responses

over the last couple of days is a warning sign that none of us should ignore. the message from many of trump supporters in the last few days is focused on attacking the ry the process. you forked in the judicial system. what are to all of the people participating in the legal system if the base -- if they don't believe in the outcomes of the legal system?>> this is his mo every single time, which is burn the system down if it attacks them in any way. it's not the way any former government official should behave. the system is more important than any individual person, but he doesn't care about that.

he's saying it's not a crime. tell it to michael cohen who went to jail for him and had the supporters applauding that. it's the same underlying thing. if the system were rigged, would be looking at four final convictions of trump in four different jurisdictions today, not the patchwork of partially litigating cases we have. and to get back to your question, the threat is if he continues this, there will be harm to jurors and judges, law enforcement officers. it reminds me of when in georgia and election officials said trump cut out the rhetoric. someone will get hurt, and that happened for all of us to see on january 6. >> andrew, we've talked about this.

we don't know with impact of all this rhetoric is. people watching and listening and thinking it's a license to do something to do harm. and it's like a redux of 2020, to me. talk to me about your concerns here and what you hear when you cure the attacks on the jug on the judge and the jurors. >> what i would ask people to do is to look past the adjectives and adverbs and rhetoric and focus on the facts. this is what happens in a courtroom. i'm less concerned about trump and what a defendant says. he has been convicted. and most say the process is unfair when they are convicted. that is what defendants do.

he is unfortunately the candidate for the republican party. but the real issue is the enablers and the idea that susan collins is denigrating the system. i would say look at the facts. hope hicks, david pecker, people aligned with and supportive of donald trump took the stand and they were not accused of lying. they were never cross-examined to say they were not telling the truth. and they brought the evidence out that the jury found to be guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. go to the actual evidence as opposed to putting on a label. because the facts matter. if they don't matter, this country is lost. there's no basis to have the rule of law or any system that

protects us from authoritarianism. and there's a written transcript that everyone can look at to show what happened. we don't have to take anyone's word for it. it is an black and white. >> that is so true. and people can empower themselves to do that. there was something that the republican speaker of the house said during interview with fox news that stuck out to me. you've argued so many cases before the supreme court. he basically suggested that the supreme court can be relied on to save trump. like you could hear that. what was your reaction to hearing him talk about the supreme court like that? it is a different branch of government.>> the clip you played show the speaker saying he knows his he knows the

justices. i know the justices. i have no idea what they might be thinking about this. and it's important to point out that he has been a dead loser in the supreme court every time it comes up. 8-1 on executive privilege with justice thomas siding with him. and i don't think the u.s. supreme court sits to review state convictions generally. maybe they will find a federal issue and maybe there will be an appeal, but it's tough because the jury unanimously found trump guilty and not just of one count but 34 separate criminal convictions that are felonies. and they did it under the legal standard that's the hardest to prove. beyond a reasonable doubt. they did it unanimously.

it's very hard to overturn that and hard to see the u.s. supreme court getting involved, despite what the speaker is insinuating. >> thank you for the clarification. so let's talk about what happens next. and you've made this point, but trump has made more attacks on people. that some of the things he's saying are violations of the gag order. the sentencing is coming up july 11th. talk to me about how you anticipate the impact will be and what you thought of what he said on friday and how the judge would hear that. >> two of the things -- many things the judge will consider is a lack of remorse and the risk of recidivism.

for the lack of remorse, i mean, it's hard to think of the case that shows more lack of remorse. he's prideful over what happened , and he's not only showing lack of remorse for himself, but he's fomenting a disrespect for law completely. its undermining of our system. and regarding recidivism, with the jury found was the 34 felonies happened in 2017 in the oval office. 34 times. that is where the crime occurred. and the crime is the falsifying of business records to cover up a scheme to interfere with the 2016 election. that was hatched before the

election and carried out in the oval office. that was found beyond a reasonable doubt by this jury. you cannot think of a felony that goes more to the heart of our criminal justice system. so those issues will be the ones that are weighing on the judge. and the rhetoric that continues from trump with respect to judges and jurors and witnesses and their family members, all of that is something a judge will consider. he's doing himself no favors in terms of self and in terms of his responsibility to the country. it is reminiscent of what he was doing and led to january 6th where he could sit in the oval office while people were attacking his own vice president. >> there are many things reminding me of those times. it is alarming to everyone.

thank you both, as always, for joining me. the woman who helped michael cohen prepare to testify. she will join me. and i will talk to james comey. he made a prediction one year ago. and later we will unpack biden's reaction. stay with us. call leaffilter today. and never clean out clogged gutters again. leaffilter's technology keeps debris out of your gutters for good. guaranteed. call 833.leaf.filter today, or visit leaffilter.com.

norman, bad news...

guaranteed. i never graduated from med school. what? -but the good news is... xfinity mobile just got even better! now, you can automatically connect to wifi speeds up to a gig on the go. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. i gotta get this deal... i know... faster wifi and savings? ...i don't want to miss that. that's amazing doc. mobile savings are calling. visit xfinitymobile.com to learn more. doc? if anything, donald trump's conviction has made him more fixated on the key players involved in the case. it is fair to say there's one key player in particular he cannot get off his mind. >> by the way, this was a highly qualified lawyer. i'm not allowed to use his name because of the gag order.

but he's a sleazebag. it took me a while to find out. but he was effective. he did work. he was a lawyer. at the time he was a fully accredited lawyer. >> he did not mention him by name, but we know who he's talking about. trump is not only still talking about them, he's posting about him online. as we've said all along, michael cohen was not on trial. the biggest differences michael cohen admitted to what he has done. >> since no one is above the law, donald needed to be held accountable like any of us. just like i was held accountable. >> one of the things during prep sessions with danya perry and her office was do not quibble over and answer. if he did it, own it.

and it's very difficult. nobody wants to acknowledge that they did something wrong or something bad. >> joining me now is danya perry, she was sitting next to him in that exclusive interview. thank you for taking the time this afternoon. i just played some of trump's not so veiled attacks on michael cohen. he says, i'm not allowed to use his name because of the gag order. are you watching this and are you prepared to take any action if he continues to come after your client? >> we've taken action at every turn. i think a lot of people forget because michael has a dramatic persona. the trauma he has been through, i was there with him when michael was thrown into solitary confinement. i was

there with him when trump filed a half-million dollar lawsuit against him after he testified in the grand jury. so i hurt your opening segment. you are talking about violations of norms to the rule of law and dangers to the institutions but also to witnesses. as much as michael is relieved that the trial is over, he is also feeling fearful and properly so, given the continued attacks. i think he's prepared for that he is concerned. and we will do whatever we can as we have in the past. but he is concerned that if trump is reelected that nothing i can do or any lawyer can do

will be able to help them avoid threats to his safety and his liberty. >> to that point, there have been arrange of reports that a number of people involved in this have been threatened. is michael concerned about his safety? right now? >> i mean, he's been concerned. and, again, there have been constant threats of violence and just constant recrimination. i've been on the receiving end of some of that. mostly just file, misogynistic kinds of things. i think that is exactly what one would expect. admittedly, i was a little bit taken aback by it, but it is something he's lived with for 6

years. it has only increased with this verdict. and i think he expects that it will continue to amplify. >> i want to ask about the tone. in the clips that we played he talked about how you prepared him to testify and not to quibble and how he should admit to his own faults. how important do you think his humility was to the jury? a jury of citizens making decisions about this case? >> i think it was critical. as michael said, it is hard and counter to his large personality. but it's important in terms of creating a connection with the jury and the larger public. in some ways he's gotten the

short end of the stick every time for 6 years. he was the only person held accountable for a long time. he was also charged for things -- i know he said this, and i told him not to. he was prosecuted for things that almost no one is. sometimes as an add-on. but rarely is anyone prosecuted for the kind of tax evasion that he committed. having said that, he did take responsibility for it, and it's been my position all along he should move forward. he listened to me during his testimony. and i saw it resonate with the jury and i saw them looking at him and nodding their heads. and bonding, in a way. people want to hear that. people don't want to hear, yes i did it, but let's argue about

it. he fully accepted responsibility , and it was gratifying for him and vindicating that several judges and a jury of mr. trump's peers believed it. >> those of us who have interviewed him, his tone was very different. and it sounds like you are a key advisor. he served time in connection with this scheme. he said he believes that trump will serve time in prison. i would like to play a part of that conversation. >> i am afraid of him going to jail. not for him or his safety. that is on him. i am more concerned for you and all of us and our families and the american people. this clown had four years of

being debriefed on national security issues. my concern is in the prison situation, he's willing to give away secrets for a book of stamps. and he will do that because he doesn't care. if america turns against him, he would rather see america burned to the ground. and that is who he is. >> this was a different take. and the question i have for you is the judge makes the decision about prison time. do you think he will take national security concerns and what michael is afraid to into account? and what do you think the sentence will look like? >> i think, in my view it's a little overblown. i don't see a world in which

trump serves in the general population. if, at all, he served any time, he will be with his detail and segregated. but, look, the judge has a range of options available from probation to community service, which i think would be interesting. home confinement in prison. i've looked at hundreds of leica sentences. people to get jail terms for this type of a crime. and even people who plead guilty and accept responsibility, as this defendant has not. is on the menu of options, but given the logistics and the practical issues that would come with it, i think it would be hard to fathom the judge doing that. and there will be appeals and delays and it's hard to imagine

this happening during a second term, if that happens. >> thank you so much for taking the time this afternoon. i always enjoy talking to you. i've been thinking about a former prediction from james comey made during a conversation about a year ago. >> it's a crazy world that donald trump is dragged this country into. but he could be wearing an ankle bracelet while accepting the nomination. >> this prediction feels more relevant than ever. james comey will join me after the break.

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nomination at the republican convention. this week trump was convicted on all 34 accounts and sentencing is scheduled for july 11th, which is four days before the start of the republican national convention. we don't know what the sentence will be and we don't know if there will be ankle bracelets involve. as is the case -- as the case comes to a close, this is only one format criminal cases against him. he's facing charges to overturn the will of the people in the 2020 election. the criminal fraud trial we saw playout in new york will be the only one to take place before the november election. james comey is joining me. he has written a brand-new book. a crime thriller in connecticut.

congratulations on the book. i wanted to start with the news . before the verdict you said it was likely to result in a conviction. any year ago you made the prediction. do you think he will be wearing an ankle bracelet? >> it seems unlikely. i've never seen a defendant beck fort moore by attacking the judge and jury and witnesses. one key thing in assessing a sentence, a judge looks if you are sorry for what you did. >> people have suggested there are range of factors that would make it difficult -- the system has not been tested in this way. would be nearly impossible for law enforcement institutions to put them in jail?>> they would put him in a double wide out there the grass and he would eat there and showered there and exercise their and be away.

it is doable.>> your name was brought up in david testimony. can you describe -- there was a january meeting that you attended and at the meeting trump said that david pecker is more than anyone in the room. you said you didn't want to comment on that. you suggested his account was different for me recollection. what was different from your recollection? >> i was never in a meeting with him. i think he may have passed me in the hallway. so in his memory, i'm kind of a giraffe. but i was never in a meeting. i wrote in a memo every conversation i had. >> so you were never in a

meeting with him. >> never. >> i wanted to talk about the other three cases. three other cases are pending including two federal cases that are in definitely on hold. i want to play something that you said to me last june. >> i cannot imagine a circumstance where the department of justice, if they're going to charge him, would not have done it so far in advance that we would have a resolution before he would take office. >> we are waiting for the immunity ruling. do you think they can still get it done before november?>> it seems unlikely. and i did not mean trump taking office. i met before the election. i don't think either case will be resolved by then.

>> let me ask you about the attacks. there are attacks on alvin bragg and the judge. he said it could weigh in on the sentencing. but what about the danger of that and how concerned you are about a repeat of the violence we saw on january 6.>> i am very concerned about attacks on individuals. it's why we created the federal witness security program. i never thought the mop threats would be coming out of the mouth of the republican candidate for president. i am concerned about that and wing nuts in maga world who would take steps to harm people. i'm not concerned about large- scale violence. i think a message was sent and still being sent by the doj that scared the crap out of the

would be marchers. i think that's why you don't see hardly anyone at his legal appearances. i remain concerned about the individual threats. >> i was at the courthouse on tuesday. it was a very small crowd. truth can be stranger than fiction. but this is your second book. tell us about your inspiration for the book and what did you draw from your own experiences? >> it is a whodunit. the first book was in manhattan. this is a hedge fund in connecticut. it gave me enough knowledge to bring my characters to a different world and tell a story that people will find a good summer reads. >> has this become cathartic

for you? it sounds like this will be her last one. is it more cathartic than working in the fbi? >> you don't have to testify in front of congress. but i find it harder than i expected but much more fun. i can show people places i've known well through fiction with more freedom than i ever imagined. >> thank you for joining me this afternoon. coming up, president biden is running against a man convicted of 34 felonies. but how should his reelection campaign use this moment in their messaging? how did they engage the base of the party? i have some thoughts to share.

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there is no question that it's far better not to run for president as a convicted felon. it's also too early at this point to tell how much the political landscape has changed. according to a poll released the morning of the verdict, 67% of voters said that it will not change their minds. but about 17% city guilty verdict would make them less likely to vote for him. it's not a huge percentage of voters, but this will be an incredibly close election. the trump campaign had a great fundraising hall. 53 million. that would narrow the advantage that the biden campaign has had. but the word guilty was on the

front page of pretty much every newspaper. and news at the conviction was unavoidable on social media platforms. and not in the way that trump would like. it's possible the story could be breaking through in a way we have not seen. president biden did address the rhetoric in the wake of his conviction. >> it is reckless and dangerous . it is irresponsible. >> and then there is the biden campaign that has taken a more aggressive posture than the white house. michael tyler responded to the conference with the statement that referred to trump as a convicted felon calling him confused, desperate, and defeated. campaign advisors say that they don't plan to make the

conviction essential part of the campaign, but they need the most effective way to talk about. they want to not turn off the base. the big test is the debate and there is a lot of business the president needs to get done. he needs to make the choice clear in november and reminding the public of issues that will personally affect their lives in november. trump's conviction confirms what we already knew about his character. he's morally corrupt and unethical. so the president can scream and yell that you are a convicted felon over and over. and maybe he will. democrats may sell shirts with trump behind bars. but an effective message is not just about the criminality. it's about the impact that he

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when the biden campaign decided it was time to confront trump's legal troubles, there

was one staffer leading the charge. >> first of all, let me say this. we are not here today because of what is going on of there. we are here because you are here. we are glad that you're here this morning. we are here primarily because of the threat that poses to the united states of america and to our democracy.>> michael tyler is joining me. that is who you just saw. he's the communications director for the biden/harris campaign. people are asking me and some could ask you. i want to start with fundraising. the biden team has had a big opportunity to spend on organizing. if the number is correct, trump had a huge hall. the biden team sent out a fundraising email. how did it do? can you give me a characterization? >> thank you for having me.

i think with regard to the trump number, i'm sure they raised money because his base will stick with him through thick and thin. whether he is a felon or not. this campaign had one of the best stretches of fundraising -- our campaign. >> in the 24 hours after?>> consistently since the verdict we've had our most successful stretch. but the money we are raising is going to things like communicating with voters. 200 field offices paid advertisements. the organizing apparatus and all the battleground states. and whatever the trump campaign has, that will pay legal fees. we feel confident about the fundraising operation we are running in the biden camp and confident about the infrastructure we are setting

up across the battleground states. it will relentlessly communicate with voters who will decide the election. >> you have been one of the faces of a more aggressive campaign. obviously outside the courtroom with robert de niro. i want to ask you about the debate. that cut to me, feels like the next huge moment. he will be talking about trump's convictions, and how it matters to the american people. what can we expect on that front? >> you can expect to hear the president say what he said when he challenged trump to the debates earlier last month. he will talk about the role that donald trump played in overturning roe v. wade and the fact that he still out here saying that these abortion bands are playing out brilliantly. he will say that it's reckless

and dangerous to be attacking the rule of law and undermine democracy and undermine the judiciary. trump continues to do that, and, of course, you can hear the president stand up for democracy and asked trump about the danger and chaos and violence he continues to so. and he will talk about those in addition to the economy moving forward. we will talk about historic record of accomplishments. the jobs he's created, the work he's done to lower costs and getting the grocery retailers to lower prices. or do we want to return to the approach of trump giving nothing but handouts and tax breaks to wealthy corporations. >> it sounds like a lot. there is a lot of business the president has to do it the debate. and some of it are the things

like abortion rights and making the choice clear. will he go after him as a convicted felon? it does not sound like his style. what are you preparing for?>> trump is now a convicted felon. and whether it's his criminal trials what he talks about, in trump he's fighting for himself. what joe biden will communicate throughout the campaign is that this campaign is not about trump. it's about the american people and their interests. protecting their freedoms and rights. that will be the contrast we percent. >> i only have a minute left. i know you've been in the middle of a big push to reach out to black voters. is there anything in the data that you're seeing internally about voters coming back to support the president that the public pools have not caught up on?

>> we see a lot of black voters and young voters in particular are not as tuned into the presidential election. but when they do tune in and they hear his vision for the future, it does resonate with them. at this stage of the race, the work that this campaign is doing matters that much more. running advertisements in black and brown communities. deepening the organizing on the ground and working with grassroots organizations. small business visibility. that is the work that this campaign is doing and we are the only campaign doing it at this stage of the race and that is work intended not to pay off in may or june of 2024 but to establish a consistent relationship to earn their vote on election day. >> not everyone can say they stood next to robert de niro.

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the like governor will talk about how this is playing out in his state and across the country and what other issues they should be talking about and i will ask him how he thinks the guilty verdict will impact the election. we will be back here tomorrow night at 8:00 and next sunday at noon, but stay where you are because there is much more news coming up on msnbc.