people simultaneously facing a m term limit will undoubtedly having you searching for attention and that is what we are seeing. the lgbtq community will be here long after governor desantis is out of office. it is a shame that this is where our time and energy is being spent. it is also not surprising. it is quite ironic governor desantis and porter republicans love to chant about the free state of florida, but you are not free to be who you are. >> senator, thank you so much for stopping by. appreciate it. that will do it for me. thank you for watching. alex will be back next saturday and sunday at 1:00 p.m. eastern. prime weekend is up next. up n

welcome to prime time weekend. i am nicolle wallace. let's get right to the week's top stories. the extraordinary moment when donald trump went from four times indicted ex-president liable for sexual abuse to defamation to suddenly in an instance in -- liable for sexual abuse and defamation. it is the start of a long legal odyssey for donald trump. the republican party has followed him willingly down the rabbit hole toward autocracy. the country now has to grapple with it as well.

having already spent the trial in an environment completely out of his control defendant donald trump will be subject to the rules and processes of the criminal justice system. he has been convicted of a felony. his right to vote even on a ballot that bears his name is likely to remain only because of a quirk in his current home state of florida. the washington post reporting if the former president have been convicted in republican dominated florida or most other states, he would not be allowed to vote this fall. trump was convicted in new york, where felony boating laws more lenient. under florida law residents convicted of crimes in other states lose their ability to vote in florida only if they are barred from voting in the state where they have committed their offenses. in new york felons are barred for voting only while

incarcerated. earlier today the config returned to the scene of the crime, trump tower where he and david pecker and michael cohen hatched that plan . the ex- president predictably ranted and raved saying he will appeal. he has attacked michael cohen as a potential violation of the gag order. he also attacked the judge who literally holds trump's fate in his hands. the judge set to sentence the ex-president on july 11. that is just four days ahead of the start of the republican convention. republicans will nominate donald trump for a third time. one complicating factor is the fact that he is running for president in no small part. he sees taking the white house as a way out of his legal challenges. even that is not a way out in this case. the new york times reports the trippy -- proceedings will

continue even if he wins. trump would have no power as president to pardon himself. it is all part of how the american system of justice works, according to president joe biden. >> donald trump was given every opportunity to defend himself. it was a state case and not a federal case. it was heard by a jury of 12 citizens. 12 americans, 12 people like you, like millions of americans who have served on juries. this jury is chosen the same way every jury in american is chosen. it was a process that the attorneys were a part of. the jury heard five weeks of evidence. after careful deliberation the jury reached a unanimous verdict. it is reckless. it is dangerous, irresponsible for anyone to say this was rigged just because they do not like the verdict.

our justice system has endured for nearly 250 years. literally as a cornerstone of america. the justice system should be respected. we should never allow anyone to tear it down. it is as simple as that. that is america. that is who we are. that is who we will always be, god willing. >> the aftermath of the truck election interference hush- money trial ending in the first ever conviction of a former american president is where we begin today with some of our favorite reporters and friends that have been with us since the start of this trial. s tria. it strikes me that joe biden said that as someone who son is currently embroiled in the federal criminal justice system, is not someone, they

are not a family that is not facing accountability. the difference is one of them seems willing to accept and live with the rule of law. the other is actively running as president against it. >> his own sons trial is beginning next week. a democratic new york sinner is in the midst of a trial, a democratic congressman just got issued an indictment. that is the department of justice at work. for joe biden who has kept his remarks about this trial two hour minimum. when our colleague over at the white house asked about donald trump's assertion today at trump tower that it was biden that was directing all of this, what his response was, he turned and he gave a grin. this is the difficulty. when there are 300 million americans on looking and you have one man spews out one of

falsehoods and lives. he may very well have the right to this appeal. he may have legitimate grievances, but there are so many other things that he says. on the other side of that you have and president of the united states, joe biden, who is his opponent five months from now and is in so many ways restricted on what he says, other than calling on americans to trust the rule of law implemented in this country for more than 250 years. >> let's go back to the moment. we were all in air together. my executive producer sat in my ear there is a verdict. i blurted out there is a verdict! can you take me back to that moment. what did you know? >> i knew there was hour verdicts. that is when we got the note that it was going to be 30 minutes when the 34 accounts would be red. that was the question. it was going to be up to that foreman to ultimately deliver what everybody had agreed on, as those 12 jurors unanimously.

i think andrew jumped in. you are the one who has been so careful to not read tea leaves. you have set the quickness of which they came back at 4:30 p.m. led you to believe this was going in a certain direction. you informed me in real time as well. >> it just seem clear to me, especially that they said they needed 30 minutes to fill out the form they had to have had some guilty verdicts. i knew from being a prosecutor all you need is one. that note was a very good note. the surprise was it turns out with the charges, why it took 30 minutes, i thought it seemed unlikely to be all acquittals are all convictions. it turned out that 30 minutes is probably for some other reason. if i had to guess i would say security concerns. this is an unusual case. secret service would need to be

involved. the nypd could be involved because of transportation of the jurors, the alternate jurors. it seems like hour normal aspect. it's something that i have seen happen. it obviously was some dramatic moment. i would say the political overtones of this where you have donald trump running on a just like the election, i really won that. i really won this. this is unfair. the election is riggs. the trial is riggs. for those of us who have been there every day this is the downside of it not being televised. we are not having audio. my biggest first reaction the moment i first went to court was the judge was so impressive. i couldn't believe how calm and

dispassionate he was about everything. you just have this idea of this presence of an adult in the room. that is what kept everything so in control. if that is what trump is shaping against. he is an adult who was extraordinarily unfair, even issuing objections ahead of the trump legal team and sustaining them on his behalf. his flashpoints of anger were against todd blanche in the opening statements, against robert costello as the defenses witness. you can kind of count them on hand. >> this idea that this is a courtroom. it is a place where fact, law, and the respect for the rule of law matters. he could put aside the attacks on him, the jurors, his family,

and understand his old to the office. it's something i don't think donald trump will ever understand. that people act out of principal and are not transactional beings. people actually understand this has nothing to do with politics or money. it just has to do with the principles. such a contrast of where we are in the country. >> and it works. we are part of the court officers and nypd as they left the scene last night. without having an overly aggressive footprint they secure that area. folks were continuing to walk and bike and drive down the street. there was that park across the street, first amendment part. folks from both sides were able to come out and protest. at no point was there anything that anybody first amendment rights are being violated. the officers were there, they were kind and they were ready. >> a lot of us were showing up

at 6 a.m. or earlier and there were members of the public. some of them were loud and argumentative and fighting. i never heard them once raise her voice. to get us all in the have to go through two levels of security. everything moved perfectly. i never heard one raised voice. it was incredible. >> have you had the chance to process this? as a journalist you are probably most familiar with the facts of the documents. just your body of reporting intersects with this trial more than anyone else's. have you processed what you've witnessed and what the result is? >> i think i'm still thinking about it. i'm getting ready for another story on monday morning. it really is, what you think about the minutia that we have to listen to to get to this absolutely incredible moments.

it sort of, i think what strikes me, and i'm going to come back to how the judge handled it. i saw him first in the criminal trial against the trump organization. just how well he ran that trial. donald trump was not there. to see it on another level. i thought his moments of anger were so powerful. he reserved them for i thought the right moments. that is sort of what i'm thinking about today. i can't believe we actually got to the end and it worked. there wasn't any real incident. it was really well-run. >> i keep thinking about the things that we were wrong about. people didn't think 12 jurors would last. they thought maybe we would need more alternates. we didn't go through any of them. people thought there would be a hung jury. we were saying yesterday before we knew there was a verdict. that didn't happen.

what was your sense? i watched probably too much sports analysis. the minute a game and you can fight what went wrong. my masters had a team meeting. maybe trials don't work that way. what is the posttrial analysis? >> a few things. i think to sue's point in is all true the judge merchan was very impressive. there was something straight forward, homely you might even say about the actual process in a the lab attain a courtroom that really contrasted with the kind of radio airs that trump has always tried to portray. part and parcel of taking himself apart from the legal system. the main thing that occurs to me is maybe because we are law guys. we have been at this for a long time. i found it a really gratifying day. i know a lot of people are

saying how would the american people process it? to me the rule of law has its place. we do not want the law to be controlling barbecues and boating and work, et cetera. there has always been this latent risk. we are not out of the woods that somehow people will reject the legal principles that were vindicated. on the other hand there was a latent risk that the principles themselves would not be vindicated. all the things that everyone said is correct and moreover it happens. real leaders screaming about this process. everyone, merchan, the 12 and the attorneys kept their heads down and did it in a calm, straightforward way. it was exemplary. it was better for being just a straightforward, normal criminal law process. there are so many ways we are just getting to process this

change of static -- status. as a convict he is in a grimy system that he has to submit to. he is just beginning to understand. >> the last time i renew my passport if the last form that asked if you are a felon. he has to check yes. take me through what he can and cannot do now that he is and balance. >> there are certain things like can he possess a on? once he is a and there is a enemy statue that makes it illegal to possess a. there are issues with respect to his being able to vote. if he gets some sort of sentence during the time that he is serving it, that may preclude him from voting the anomaly that he wants people to vote for him, but he might be

the person not able to vote for himself. obviously it depends on what judge merchan does when he sentences him. it is up to the judge to decide. >> many countries will not prevent him to travel to them. >> he's going to submit to a report. there will be a presentence report. that person is going to ask him everything about himself. he is going to have to answer all sorts of questions about his finances and his background. >> what is the purpose of that? >> the judge gets a report. it gives a recommendation as to what the sentence should be. that is based on a series of things that includes who with the offender and what are the offense characteristics. remorse, recidivism, the judge has to decide what sort of fine will be imposed.

to do that you need to know about the financial wherewithal of the defendant. this is standard for any defendant. there is this process. he will be subjected to that. just to be clear, it's because of his conduct. it is not being imposed on him. he made the choice. he was given hour trial. the jury found that he did it. all of this is something every defendant who has made a choice, a poor one, and is found guilty is subjected to this. >> what the report informed judge merchan's decision about prison time ? >> absolutely. the judge does not have to follow it, the same way the judge does not have to follow the states recommendation or the defendants recommendation. with judge merchan you can be sure that he's going to make his decision and all of that is information that he gets. the reason is to have a separate body is because there is an arm of the court that is

independent giving that analysis so that the court does not have to worry about is he getting the right information. >> all i keep thinking of is what trump is going to show up? the guy that told foxnews i hate slippers or the guy who walks around and takes the mocha test in front of any camera. what trump is going to sit for this interview? >> before july 11, but we know. this is the point every lawyer tells his convicted client now, go there and show you are repented. for god sakes, you are a convict. he's not capable. he's going to continue to fulminate and that will show up in the report. it is something merchan can take account of. >> what is the state of acceptance of his fate? >> today was evidence of that. i was in the atrium and there was anything but remorse.

>> what was it? >> i wouldn't say this was the one brimming with confidence, and enthusiasm or joy. that is not how i would have described trump this morning. eric and laura were standing off to the side. look, he was just convicted less than 24 hours ago. you didn't see a lot above republican lawmakers. he was isolated in front of those elevator doors. it was much different than eight years ago during the transition when i was watching those elevator doors for hours and hours as we have people go up and greet him on the 26th floor. you can see those folks there. most of them were trump organization employees based off of the where -- the way they were dressed and where they were coming from. other than that it was 30 minutes of him referring to the map people who did this to him. lashing out at michael cohen,

but not eye name. we call 2022 the revenge tour. i don't know what the next five months will look like. this is someone who has been sullied repeatedly by the justice system from the e. jean carroll lawsuit earlier this year. the civil fraud trial. for him this is blow after blow. this is not someone that i am used to seeing on the campaign trail this morning. >> thank you so much for all of your coverage. everyone else sticks around. when we come back we will talk to another one of our new favorite friends and go to experts on the trial. someone who had a front row seat to the specific facts of this case. locklin cartwright joins us. plus, with a guilty conviction be the line in the sand for a small but critical part of the electorate? we will look to whether there

are enough voters who are uncomfortable with the idea of having a criminal in the oval office. oval office. - ♪ unnecessary action hero! unnecessary. ♪ - was that necessary? - no. neither is a blown weekend. with paycom, employees do their own payroll so you can fix problems before they become problems. - hmm! get paycom and make the unnecessary, unnecessary. - see you down the line.

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saw what the four questions were and what the reback requests were. i was dying to know, did you have a sense of where this was heading based on the specific chunks of testimony they want to read back, especially pecker? >> yes. my initial thought was to have come to a decision. they have looked at the paper and they have got there. what they are now trying to get to is the underlying crime, the scheme to influence the election. they needed to hear david testimony again. a month ago as we were trying to remember back to then the key indicators were not just that bit of testimony, the bit about the trump tower meeting. but also about karen mcdougal and the key conversation with david pecker. all of those indicators came

back to me in my new york times piece. even a year ago when i was in court for the indictment everyone said stormy daniels. i thought if stormy is in here karen mcdougal have to be here. when i was reading through i said it was a reading tour. that is when i thought i've got to write this piece. i ran into jake the same week. i pitched it to him. the thought process came back to me. the jury is at that moment and they have decided about the documents and to get the misdemeanor to the felony they need to confirm this. they need to put david pecker , donald trump all in this conspiracy. they did. >> trump was convicted on 34 felony counts not because of michael cohen or stormy daniels, but because of david pecker. what else is david pecker know?

why is trump being so nice to him? >> i think the relationship goes back many years. while i would love to tell the viewers there is some bombshell ball of documents that i'm about to write a book about i cannot say that is the actual truth. when i think is one of the most interesting twists about all of this, david pecker who corrupted this media organization. he twisted and turned a news organization and to a criminal enterprise. the reason we were all here was because of that first catch and kill phrase. nobody really noticed it. >> it was that monday before the election, right? >> no one really noticed the initial story. the follow-up reporting by the associated press, the new york

times and the new yorker. they were all competing to land the stormy daniels story. that really drove it home. the stories of hearing and different outlets. prosecutors started noticing. i remember thinking this is confirming what i always thought when i was there. something is going on. i walked out of court and i thought my golly gosh. i have survived. to me it was a sense of validation that i am a little crazy. it was a nice moment when i heard that first guilty and then i heard it 34 more times. i thought to myself the system works. judge merchan , his court work. the jury worked. it was such and beautiful moment. >> i have to say i remember going out with you for drinks

once. he was telling the stories and it almost didn't make sense. i was sort of worried about you a little bit. >> trump benefits from all of the other people thinking they are nuts. i have likened it to the movie version of the book the firm. what is your moment where you go running out and become a source for your own media organization? >> one of the defining moments was when and howard told me he had gone out to california and interviewed a woman who had a credible story about an affair with donald trump. i was like what do you need from me? oh, we are not running it? david pecker has purchased the story and killed it to help donald trump. i just thought in what world are we doing this?

another series of events involving purchasing suppose it emails that we have to be translated on the eve of the election. getting back call from the wall street journal i just thought this dory deserves to be in the public domain. that is when i walked outside of ami and i said to lucas this is a catch and kill. the reason i use that is to give me cover because i knew they would be looking for who the source was on the inside. in the case that comes up where michael cohen says to david pecker we've got this all locked down. everything is in that safe. i had to then open it up to get the document to give to the wall street journal and i was panicking at any moment done and howard could come into my office.

>> is there a motor out there who will hear the dog whistle that is a guilty conviction of the republican candidate for president and change their vote in november? we will ask. will ask. blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. (bell ringing) someone needs to customize and save hundreds with liberty mutual! (inaudible sounds) (elevator doors opening) wait, there's an elevator? only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, ♪ ♪ liberty. ♪

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what happens if he does get elected and all of those charges that he is found guilty of, do we want a president who wants to sit there with all the guilty charges against them, possibly going to prison doing his oath, his duty while in prison? >> is going on trial for this and that. he's really the felon in charge is that of the commander-in- chief. >> i don't think any person who is gotten close enough to being indicted for a felony should be anywhere near the presidency. it was just embarrassing. >> are we still capable of being embarrassed as a country?

that is the question now the donald trump have been found guilty on 34 felony counts in the hush money criminal trial against him. he becomes the first presumptive major party nominee to be convicted on felony charges. these are the kinds of voters who could have an outside impact in november's election. while there is belief the ex- president's new political status could boost him with his own base the founder for republican voters against trump sarah longwell says this. ays t joining our conversation is the executive director for republican voters against trump, sarah longwell is with us. you are the first person i wanted to talk to once this news ended up on the front page with huge banner headlines.

my question is who he hopes is this? who is still open to news? >> the persuadable voters or the swing voters in the 2024 election voters who sort of don't like either candidate very much. sometimes we call them the double haters. they are center-right voters, many are trump voters, but don't want to vote for trump again. just before i came on here i was listening to a focus group that we are convening of two- time trump voters who rate trump is doing a very bad job and view him unfavorably. those are the people who we are trying to persuade to not vote for trump in the 2024 election. we asked the impact of how they were thinking about voting for trump?

five of the nine said it made them less likely to be willing to vote for trump. one said it made them more likely and 3 said that it made no difference. i haven't done enough focus groups to know how it will impact people broadly, but that sounds about right. for these voters who don't like trump very much. i always try to remind people we call them double haters because they don't like either candidate very much. they really hate donald trump. they maybe are not enthusiastic about joe biden or maybe wish there were someone else, but donald trump scares them. whenever there is something like this, a verdict where he has been found guilty on 34 accounts and he is and 7. that does raise the bar for voters to say i don't think that i can get there on him. i'm hearing a lot of analysis that dismisses the idea that it would make any difference. i think that is wrong. like i said in the tweed it is not going to change the entire

trajectory of the race, but will have a marginal impact on these marginal swing voters in an election decided at the margins. >> i think that people are staring at the wrong part of the portrait. they are staring at the people willing to go to the u.s. capitol on january 6 to hang mike pence. of course those people are not moved by 34 felony convictions. if you look at the people who used to have trump flags in front of their house or used to wear an maga hat to the grocery store there are a lot fewer trump flags. a lot fewer redcap traffic the where the unlike those willing to travel to washington on january 6. can you talk about the moment that exist in terms of permission structures for sort of the rule of law republicans to say i'm out?

>> for a lot of these voters who like to trump and voted for him twice their breaking point. we make these testimonials, the number one reason we here for people who voted for trump twice and won't vote for him again is because of january 6th. that is when they were done. it was a redline. one of the things that have been happening is as a sort of republican apparatus has continued to downplay what happened on january 6th. you are seeing people like nikki haley endorsing donald trump despite condemning what happened on january 6th. despite them understanding donald trump was refusing to engage in the peaceful transfer of power they are still saying we will take him. some of those voters see the entire establishment crawl back to trump get pulled in that

direction. pulled home to the tribe. this conviction helps to reinforce for the ones who said that with my redline. even as they're pulling you back in they are saying this guy should not be anywhere near the white house. i am glad it is over. i'm glad to see the conviction, i'm glad to see the accountability. the thing about the trial is in the key people looking backwards to some degree. the stormy daniels thing has been litigated in the mind of voters for a long time. we need people to start looking forward. i think the added element of being a convicted felon helps underscore the criminality that hangs over everything donald trump does and is one of the reasons he has no business being near the white house again. >> has the body white house reached out to you? if they ask for your advice you

gave them two pieces what would it be? >> my biggest piece of advice is you need surrogates in general. it's not a secret joe biden himself is maybe not the strongest messenger. you need every democrat. at these moments when there is eye chance to really hit trump hard, you need all of you are sarah gets flooding the zone out there saying this guy is and convicted felon. the american people do not want a convicted felon. healthy american people understand why this is such an important moment. especially reaching out to those in the center-right who can help be sarah gets as well. then i saw my doctor and found out i have afib, and that means there's about a 5 times greater risk of stroke. symptoms like irregular heartbeat, heart racing, chest pain,

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with whole meat and veggies. it's not dry food. it's not wet food. it's just real food. it's an idea whose time has come. >> when we come back y kim burns broke decades of

political neutrality to deliver a powerful and dire warning about the dangers we face right now to democracy, the dangers posed by donald trump. don't go anywhere. go anywhere. boat and rv all bundled with progressive you've got the peace of mind to really wander. yeah. yeah, i just hope it stays this way. once word gets out about these places they tend to -- -are you done? -aaand there it is. well, at least your vehicles are protected. let's hit the road. hey fam! i'm just at this beautiful lake that i just discovered. practicing gratitude, manifesting abundance. [introspective music] recipes. recipes that are more than their ingredients. ♪ [smoke alarm] recipes written by hand and lost to time... can now be analyzed and restored using the power of dell ai. preserving memories

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the presumptive nominee the opioid of all opioids. an easy cure to what some feel as secure as to our pains and problems. with him you end up with a worse affliction and addiction. a bigger delusion, james baldwin would say. the national suicide. do not be seduced by easy equalization. there is nothing equal about this equation. we are at an x essential crossroads in our political and

civic lives. this is a choice that cannot be clearer. >> if you haven't sat and watched the whole thing and then watched again, do yourself a favor and treat yourself. as soon as we get off the air, please, do so. everything renowned historian ken burns had to say is a precious gift. that was from a commencement address on the 19th. it has exploded on mine since it was so eloquently and powerfully delivered. he explains why he sees this moment as a moment to suspend his long-standing commitment and attempt at neutrality. he implored the new graduates to remember with the most important political office is that of a private citizen. vote, he said. urging them to deliver our nation from the other route

that threatens to destroy us. joining me right now ken burns. i have your copy. i told you yesterday when i emailed you that i want to read the whole thing. first, tell me about this internal tussle on breaking your vow with neutrality. >> i've been making films about american history. i have no interest in talking to one group or the other. i have no interest in polishing whatever political apple i might be attracted to. i'm interested in telling true, honest and complicated stories. i'm equally drawn to those moments that address an abiding faith in the human spirit and is particularly what this american experience has been about. every once in a while you feel from having experienced all this undertone what the stakes

are. the stakes are as high as they could possibly be. it is something we have to pay attention to. unfortunately we are so preoccupied with argument or dialectically preoccupied with one thing or the other. we forget that we have to step back. they can play both sides. we are still bound by codes of honor in saying -- we turn it into a handicap. in doing that we see a little bit of power. when we started our country we are the only place on earth that said you will be a citizen and not a subject. it didn't apply to everybody, but it was the foot in the door of this aspirational experiment that has been going on for 249

years. we need to remember what that's about. when thomas paine says mankind discovers the strength and power of death the system consists wholly in the fear of resisting. that is where i got the call. i still don't think i made a choice to be for one thing or the other, i was for us. >> i guess this is my question. the other route hasn't worked. we don't live in red or blue america, there is one america. was that i your mind? >> i think that's what it is. to me it's old testament. we forget when we engage in this argument it is always one thing or the other. what we know from our lives,

our children and our work is things i really complicated. there is confusion. we have to honor that. i think we go into this saying this is an easy thing. i think we fail. eight years ago we had our cameras parked at the airplane hangar where he was going to arrive because we knew it was going to be a train wreck. we knew that it was going to be dramatic. we have set up these equivalencies. we have not invested the time in the accomplishments of the biden administration. this may be the third most accomplished legislative accomplishments in 100 years. obviously fdr and lbj are a little bit ahead. this may be that. obama is really strong and

understanding that it's not just this argument. it is sometimes superseded by a reconciling force. this is not a question of democrats or republicans. this is the survival of our republic. there is not a dictator who has ever given a power. >> this is been prime time weekend. i am nicolle wallace. tune in weekdays on msnbc .

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