it is good to be back with you in this second hour of "chris jansing reports." the aclu will challenge the

executive action president biden just signed to tighten the border. any moment the president will explain his big, new plan. we're live at the white house and at the u.s./mexico border, to dig into how this could be an immediate game-changer for people crossing into this country. the seasoned fbi agent who has been investigating hunter biden for months, will resume her testimony at the trial of the president's son. the text messages included in the indictment that have not come up in court. and, quote, i will not be intimidated. right now, attorney general merrick garland going toe-to-toe with members of congress, from everything from donald trump's criminal trial to a reality check to crime in america. our nbc news reporters are following all of the developments. we start with aaron gilchrest. this aclu challenge is something the administration had to be challenges. how do we know about how they've been preparing for the legal

challenge to this order? >> you're right, chris. the white house knew this would be something that would be challenged. the department of justice is ready for it, to face any challenges that may come up in court. the aclu saying we intend to sue. a ban on asylum is illegal, just as it was when trump unsuccessfully tried it. senior administration official earlier today asked about the potential for lawsuits and did say that the department of justice routinely has to defend actions taken by this administration, in court. and that it was prepared to do so in this case, as well. of course, we know, chris, that president biden signed this executive action earlier today. we expect to hear from him in just a few minutes about how exactly he envisions this new rule being -- being executed at the southern border, at the border with mexico. we understand that this order effectively blocks migrants who would cross the border illegally, from seeking asylum.

when the number of daily encounters at the border reaches 2,500. from homeland security, that number has surpassed 4,000. this order is effectively now usable at the southern border. it is a temporary course of action. the administration saying that, when the number gets back down below 1,500 encounters, daily for a sustained period of seven days, that this order would effectively go away at that point, but could come back again when the number would reach 2,500 again. at the same time right now, the white house is saying this is immigration policy issue that is the responsibility of congress. and that the senate, the bipartisan senate bill, that was blocked at the urging of former president trump earlier this year, is something that congress needs to take seriously and needs to take up, to give the president more authority and more funding and more personnel to protect the southern border,

chris. >> aaron gilchrest, thank you. let's go to david noriega, from the san diego border. you heard how this is executed at the border. are you seeing any changes there? >> so far, there's no indication this is a practical matter on the ground in effect. this is a big question i'm asking myself right now. what is it going to look like? will it be allowed in the courts? if it is, what is it going to look like? there are a ton of questions, more questions than answers how this would look on the ground. one of the main ones is that the u.s. cannot summarily deport every asylum seeker back to mexico. that requires active participation from mexico, from mexican authorities. i've spoken to two mexico officials on the state and local level on the other side of the fence in baja, california, where says they're not aware of plans

to implement the significant increase in summary expulsions that we would see if this order goes into effect. it's possible this will filter down to the officials that will be implementing it. those officials, do not know, what that's going to look like. that's one of many questions. there's going to be a huge gap between what this executive order looks like on paper and how it gets talked about in washington, d.c. and what it actually looks like here on the ground. how it affects migrants that are actually crossing the border. and how it involves people acting in mexico on the other side of the border. not just officials, but also cartels, smuggling networks responding to this. i heard from sources into the border. it's possible that's an indication that smuggling networks are pushing people to cross quickly before this executive order goes into effect. will that continue to happen

during this interim when the order is on paper in effect, but not implemented on the ground? it's quite possible we could see the numbers go up. either way, the one thing i want to make clear to our viewers, is that the talk of sealing or shutting down the border, that's never going to happen, fully on the ground. it's not possible. there's no way that mexico is going to accept tens of thousands of asylum seekers from all over the world. not just mexico and central america, but all over the western hemisphere, africa, asia. that's not really in the cards. whatever this is on the ground, it's going to be something much more partial. it's significant. a deep, significant change to the way the u.s. enacted its asylum laws on the border. consequential for people on the border. it will not be a total shutdown. what i will pay attention in the next few days, if it's partial, how much of a shutdown is it. who does it apply to? to what extent is mexico

cooperating. those are up in the air. >> david noriega, thank you. just now, the first witness in hunter biden's drug charges trial is, came back on the stand. ken dilanian is outside for us. we talked about the drama in the opening statements. talk about the first witness for the prosecution. what we've heard so far. >> prosecutors like to put on the investigating fbi agent to provide jurors the meat and the potatoes of the case. the context, the key facts and dates and times. she is taking the jury through, for example, hunter biden's atm withdrawals, to show where he was during the time of this gun purchase. and subsequently, they started playing excerpts of hunter biden's book, the audio version, that he himself narrated. beautiful things, in which he talked about pursuing

crack-cocaine. his whole existence was dictated, as he put it, by the demands of the crack pipe. and he talked about his superpyre, finding crack-cocaine in any town in the country. this trial is going to be about the prosecution and having to prove that there was no way that hunter biden could have sent in a form he wasn't using drugs at this time. that's what the defense is saying. he may have been using drugs around the time he was filling the form. but in his mind, he wasn't a drug user. that's what the case is going to hinge on, hunter biden's state of mind. and the prosecution is putting on a lot of evidence about hunter biden's drug use. >> thank you. let's go to capitol hill, where merrick garland forcefully defended the justice department work against what he called a long line of attacks from house republicans. nbc's alli vitale, is on the

hill. what did he have to say. >> the attorney general knew he was standing before committee that already voted to hold him in contempt, not but weeks ago. the full house has not voted on that referral yet. but garland's testimony was layered with ccusations from republicans he sought to rebut the accusations about wrongdoing related to everything from january 6th insurrectionists to the current prosecution. and the recent criminal trial of former president donald trump, defiant is one of the best ways to put the way that garland acted not just in his opening statement, but throughout the hours of testimony. listen to just a piece of that, chris. >> these repeated attacks on the justice department are unprecedented and unfounded. these attacks have not and they will not influence our decisionmaking. i will not be intimidated. and the justice department will

not be intimidated. we will continue to do our jobs, free from political influence and we will not back down from defending democracy. >> the republicans line to be intense. the head of this committee has been clear about his desire to get the justice department to turn over audio of president biden's interview with special counsel robert hurr. they have the transcript. they're exhibiting executive privilege over that. it could have a chilling effect they say of future cooperation with prosecutors in investigations such as these. the committee will continue pressing for that audio. democrats for their part during this hearing, chris, allowed garland to explain himself and gave him opportunities to clarify, effectively helping him play defense, as some of them

did offer criticisms of policies including on the border. >> ali, thank you. in 90 seconds, the mayor of one of the cities along the southern border affected by the president's executive action, joins me on the difference it could make on the ground. here's to getting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need...

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front line of the border crisis will join president biden as he announcess action on the border. it could be restricted if daily crossings exceed a daily average of 2,500. it comes months after a bipartisan senate bill advances which would tighten the border. if daily encounters reached a seven-day average of 5,000. joining me now, doug nichols, mayor of yuma, arizona, invited to the white house today, but had a scheduling issue. we appreciate you being here, mr. mayor. i know you supported the border bill that failed in the senate. for the biden administration that offered major concessions to get that bill, this is where they landed. so, let me just ask you, bottom line. will this make the difference or be a start for cities like yours? >> the border, bipartisan border bill, was a good start. that's what i was supportive of.

the discussion nationally. and a lot of great elements. but as far as this action today, i think there will be an impact. the threshold is half of what the bill had. what this really says, is what the mayors and the community leaders along the border have been saying, there are things that the administration can do, that the president can do, without a congressional change, to have a positive impact. we'll see what that actually ends up looking like on the ground. policies on paper, versus how they are enacted in the field, can vary and they vary by different border control sector. going to see how that ultimately plays out. >> let me ask, for you, looking at what this is, is the best-case for what this could establish. and if there's other executive actions you want to see

president biden take. >> best case it does reduce the demand and the key provision here is that those that cross above the 2,500 are turned. some to mexico, some to their home countries. when you start doing that, that's when other people decide not to make the trip, because they could be returned. that's the best case that could happen. probably some of them have been mediocre level, what will happen. it will fluctuate day-to-day. it will cause confusion and raise the price of the cartel's charge because of the law of supply and demand. those are what the positives and the negatives there. the president should take elements like the process element that was in the border bill and look for a way to implement that. you put more judges on the border. people are no longer waiting years to get their asylum

procedures done. they have a higher level of criteria. those things are elements that would push back on the wave of people coming through. >> there's people that criticized president biden. they criticize past presidents to go. they don't think immigration reform and what has been needed for decades under republican and democratic presidents, democratic and republican-controlled members of congress, has been comprehensive border reform. i noted that back in february, when kyrsten sinema was putting forward a bill, you and others, business leaders and members of local political parties, bipartisan, got together and said, yes. we support this. what were you able to do that congress doesn't get? do you have hope for comprehensive border reform? or do you think that congress is just broken?

>> at this point, it's not going to happen this year. >> for sure. >> it's too much of a controversial, very detailed topic. this, by far, isn't really border -- immigration reform. this is border security from an element. immigration reform, we need to look at our h2a provisions. looking at the visitor worker visas. we need to look at our process. you have ten years for someone to come into the country, who is married to an american citizen, there's a lot of broken things in the process. we need to start taking that apart as a country. that's going to be a multisession type of discussion. these elements, as you mentioned, every administration has done policy changes and executive orders to criminal what's happening at the border. and that's what we've been calling for along the border, for the last three years.

glad to see it's starting to come and years with thissed a administration. regardless of party, previous administrations found ways to manage the border in a strong way. >> douglas nicholls, mr. mayor, thank you for coming on the program. jen palmieri, former communications director for hilary for america and msnbc analyst. there's lots of different opinions. you've lived through them on the border. complicated, as the mayor said. a complicated traffic. pull back the curtain. take us to the white house and the communications team when they are rolling out a big announcement like this. and how does the president maximize the impact? >> i think the timing of --

let's look at the timing of this first, right? mexico presidential elections are over. they were weight for that to happen. and i think the other -- we had the senate vote, maybe a week or ten days ago, to show and demonstrate that congress was not able to pass a bipartisan bill that would have better addressed the border. they are trying to establish they did everything they could to pass a bipartisan border bill. they did everything they could administratively. and it's not just the action that the president is taking today. there are more -- there's more agents on the border than there has been on other presidents. president's asking for money for border enforcement, that congress has not delivered to him. and you're setting the stage for the debate where he said, i did everything i could to address this and they stood in the way.

donald trump told the congress not to pass the bill on that fight. didn't happen. and you're making an argument that you have done what you can. i see everyone is waiting for the president to speak. done what you can with the border. and donald trump is the reason he did not want to pass it because it's bad politics for him. everything is about him. i think what they want to do is eventually, neutralize the issue. show they have done what they can. and make a part that trump stood in the way of an actual solution because everything is about him, which is the overall biden message. >> we're seeing people start to line up for the beginning of this, these remarks by president biden in the east room of the white house. there's kathy hochul, the homeland security secretary, alejandro mayorkas. and michelle griffin there from new mexico, all attending there. they know what the problems are

for this president. it's headlines across the country, in their states. in "the new york times," new york city hotels going up because one in five is a shelter. baltimore, releasing mi grants illegally. colorado schools an influx of immigrant students. whether true or untrue exaggerations. what trump and republicans are saying, what they see is the negative impact is embedding in voters' brains. does this help fight that? everything going on in the border is bad. here comes the president. i have to ask you to answer that. but again, president biden in the east room of the white house, on his executive order. >> i've come here today to do what the republicans in congress refuse to do, take the necessary steps to secure our border. four months ago, after weeks of

intense negotiations, between my staff and democrats and republicans, we came to a clear, clear bipartisan deal. the strongest agreement in decades. then, the republicans walked away from it. why? because donald trump told them to. he told the republicans, that has been published by many of you, he didn't want to fix the issue. he wanted to attack me. that's what he wanted to do. an extremely cynical and political move. a complete disservice to the american people who are looking for us, not to weaponize the border but to fix it. today, i'm joined by governors, members of congress, most of them live and work along the southern border. they know the boarder is not to

be weaponized. a responsibility to share and do something about it. they don't have time for the games played in washington. and neither do the american people. today, i'm moving past the structure made as president, to do what i can on my own, to address the border. frankly, i would have preferred to address this issue through bipartisan legislation. that's the only way to actually get the kind of system we have now. to hire more border patrol agents and more asylum and judges. the republicans left no choice. today, i'm announcing actions to bar migrants who cross the southern border unlawfully, from receiving asylum. migrants will be restricted at the southern border unless they seek it after entering through an established process. and those that come to the united states legally, by making an appointment and to a port of

entry, asylum will be available. if an individual chooses not to use our legal pathways, they come without permission and against the law, they will be restricted from receiving asylum and staying in the united states. this will gain control of the border. this remains in place from the number of people trying to enter illegally, and reduced to a level that our system with manage. we will carry out the order consistent with all of the responsibilities. every one of them. in addition to this action, we recently made important reforms in our asylum system, more efficient and more secure reforms. the goal to deliver decisions on asylum as quickly as possible. the quicker decision means that a migrant is less likely to pay a smuggler thousands of dollars to take him on a dangerous journey, knowing that if in fact, they move in a wrong

direction, they are turned around quickly. two weeks ago, the department of justice started a new docket in the immigration courts to address cases where people have crossed the border and make a decision within six months, rather than six years. that's what happens now. the department of homeland security has allowed new laws. they have criminal convictions and remove them from the united states. my administration has also recently launched new efforts to go after criminal networks that profit from smuggling migrants to the border and incentivize people to give tips to law enforcement, provide information, that brings smugglers to justice. we're sending adecisional federal prosecutors to hot spots along the border. and prosecute individuals that break our immigration laws. one other critical step we will be taking.

that made a huge difference to work closely with our mexican neighbors, indead of attacking mexico. it's built trust and i'm going the do the same with the president-effect that i spoke with yesterday. we want to work with mexico as an equal partner. due to the arrangements, with migrants coming to our shared border unlawfully, has dropped dramatically. these steps are important but not enough. to truly secure the border, we have to change our laws. and congress needs to provide the necessary funding to hire 1,500 more border security agents. 100 more immigration judges to help tackle the backlog of cases, more than 2 million of them. asylum officers to make decisions in less than six months, instead of six years,

which is what it takes now. and around 100 more high-tech detection to screen and stop fentanyl being smuggled into the united states. these investments were one of the primary reasons that the border patrol union endorsed the bipartisan deal in the first place. these are essential and remain essential. if you're not willing to spend the money to hire more border patrol agents, more asylum officers, and judges, you're not serious about protecting the border. it's as simple as that. i believe the immigration has been the lifeblood of america. we're renewed by an infusion of people and new talent. statue of liberty is not some relic of american history. it stands who we are in the united states. i will never demonize the immigrants. and further, i will never

separate children from their families at the border. i will not ban people because of religious beliefs. i will not use the military to pull millions of people out of their homes and away from families to put in detention camps while waiting deportation, that my predecessor says he will do. my first day of president, i introduced a comprehensive immigration reform plan to fix the broken system. secure the border. provide a pathway for citizenships for dreamers and a lot more. i'm still fighting to get that done. we must face the simple truth, to protect america as a land that welcomes immigrants, we must secure the border and secure it now. a simple truth is, there is a worldwide migrant crisis. and if the united states doesn't secure our border, there's no limit to the number of people may try to come here because there's no better place on the

planet than the united states of america. for those that say it's too strike, i say, be patient. and people are wearing thin right now. doing nothing is not an option. we must act with our law and our values. our values as americans. take these steps and make sure we preserve who we are for future generations to come. today, i've spoken about what we need to do to secure the border. in the weeks ahead, i will speak to how we can make our immigration system more fair and just. let's fix the problem. we're doing our part. congressional republicans should do their part. thank you very much.

[ all talking at once ] >> are you playing politics with the war? >> what was that? >> i asked, sir, is prime minister netanyahu playing politics with the war? >> i don't think so. he is trying to work out a serious problem he has. thank you. >> the president taking one question. we'll go back to that. it sounds like our dave gutierrez shouting that question. that's a tougher joe biden. he has been under a lot of pressure on a lot of fronts from democrats.

to be more pointed in his criticism of republicans. lots of phrase there's. the president, not really pulling a lot of punches. >> chris, you're right. >> jen? >> it was me. sorry, aaron. he did talk about how trump stood in the way of passing the bipartisan bill. and he went through a litany of terrible things that donald trump had done with immigration, including and him saying that he would references that they would never do that. never ban people based on their religion. he would never separate children from their families. he was saying, laying out the even as he takes the tougher action, he would not be doing what trump did. never mentioning in his name, an official white house event.

trying to make that contrast. what they are trying to do here and why you saw the governors and the senators and mayors and officials who all go home and sprayed this word, right? that we have done everything we can do and donald trump is standing in the way because it helps them politically. >> he did say republicans walked away because donald trump told them to. he called a cynical move and disservice for the american people. we know we've already reported, aaron gilchrest. the aclu is planning to file suit against these new border restrictions. what can you tell us about this tone from the president and the message going forward? >> i think jen hit the nail on the head here. you heard the president, right out of the gate, go after republicans in congress and donald trump for basically destroying the bipartisan bill that came through the senate

several months ago, that was voted down. you're going to hear that messaging from the president. he alluded for additional actions to be taken. and you will hear him point out, that there was a bill that democrats and republicans negotiated. the white house had signed on to. that was the best option, to do something to be effective at helping to control security at the border and help the immigration system support people that were looking to get away from whatever problems they are trying to get away from in countries in latin america and beyond. you can expect to hear more from the president in an official capacity, like we saw today at the white house, in a campaign capacity, as he travels across the country, talking to audiences about what he's done during the last 3 1/2 years and what he would like to do in the second administration.

i thought it was noteworthy that the president made reference to people who felt like these actions he was taking were too strict. he said, be patient. he can't do nothing at this point. the senior administration officials indicated they recognize there's a problem right now. the number of illegal border crossings has gone down since december. they are above 4,000 encounters a day. and there's a concern that with the summer months, we'll see those numbers go higher. that's something historically that has happened. the administration is trying to get in front of that. to give the agencies that were at the border the authority, the ability, to try to get more control over the situation before the summer months can lead to a more out-of-control situation, chris. >> for a lot of democrats, there's a disconnect, jen. we heard from the president just now, phrases like move past republican obstruction.

republicans have left me no choice. it does appear that this is a weak spot for biden. former president trump has a 30-point edge with republican voters which would andle border security better. among latino voters, a 23-point edge. where does this go? how much of the tee electorate ends up voting on this in the key battleground states? and how much more are we going to hear from the president about this? could this be the first of maybe two or three or more executive actions? >> it will always be a motivating issue for trump. it's something his base cares about. the problem for the president, and why you saw one like governor kathy hochul there, new york. not a border state, but not a southern border state.

because my grants have moved to cities. it's become a big national issue. not just with trump voters but with democrats, independents and republicans. if you live in the new york city area, in new jersey, or chicago, you are seeing in the local news, a lot of news about migrants. that's impacting president biden's support against democrat base. it's immigration is a big motivating factor. he needs to make sure that everyone else understands he's done everything that he can do. and the reason there's not a solution is because trump is standing in the way because he wants this as an issue. he does not want to solve it. you should not elect him to solve it. you're always making a broader

point beyond immigration, which is, biden can make government work. congress can pass things. this is an issue that is not making progress because of trump. it is hard for president biden to break through on this issue. it's not as if this one event is going to be known by -- that everyone in the country will realize this has happened. that's why you see so many surrogates standing behind him. governor hochul can go to new york and do press about this. now, they the make sure that president biden has done everything he can. we talked about earlier, the debate stage. that is what this timing is about. have done what they can do, to make sure people understand, he is trying to solve the problem.

>> aaron gilchrest, thank you. jennifer, stay with me. just to note, kathy hochul, the governor of new york, will be on next hour, with my friend, katie. up next, a major victory for former president trump in his election interference case in georgia. i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up, i've got symptom relief. ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief at 4 weeks with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements. skyrizi is the first il-23 inhibitor that can deliver remission and visibly improve damage of the intestinal lining. and the majority of people experienced long-lasting remission at one year. serious allergic reactions and an increased risk of infections or a lower ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms,

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justice delayed is justice denied. once again, donald trump's legal team has turned that sentiment on its head, winning another big delay. this time, in his election interference trial in georgia. his appeal to allow fani willis to continue prosecuting the case, has been scheduled for october 4th, to be heard by judges apointed by republican governors. it's certain that the trial will not start before the election. a major victory for donald trump. joining me now, fbi official, and contributor, chuck rosenberg. we should say this appeals court is one of the busiest of its kind in the country. is this now certain? you don't see a path towards having a trial before the election in november? >> i do not, chris. i think you're exactly right. it seems not just near certain by certain, that no trial will take place before the election. >> can work continue towards

when this case does go to trial in the meantime? >> it can. judge mcafee, the trial judge below will handle motions. he's proven to be a good and thoughtful and somewhat efficient trial judge. the trial judge might tell him to hold off on that. it can go forward. i imagine prosecutors are still preparing for the case. they're not going to stop. but they do have to also prepare for this appellate argument in october, chris. >> the panel of judges doesn't collect new evidence. they are arriving at the conclusions when he decided to keep d.a. willis on the case. what will the arguments look and sound like? what are they looking for? >> you're right. appellate courts don't hear new evidence. they make legal determinations based on the record below them.

what will they will be looking for? as a legal matter, whether judge mcafee, the trial judge was right when he ruled that there was no actual conflict of interest, but appearance of the conflict of interest, judge mcafee will offer the solution that she could resign from the case or her former boyfriend, nathan wade, she hired as a special prosecutor, could resign from the case. they chose the latter option. mr. wade stepped down. judge mcafee was satisfied and he allowed the case to continue. the appellate court will see if judge mcafee had it right. >> judge yvette miller was on this panel. judge miller was apointed by a democrat. she is the first black woman to serve on georgia's appeals court.

he recused herself. all three hearing the case were appointed by republicans. there are defense attorneys that have been interviewed and say it probably does favor the defendants. does it? >> i'm agnostic on that. i've subscribed to what chief roberts says, there's not democratic or republican judges but judges that try to get it right. they may bring a viewpoint to their work. i don't know if the party that ape pointed them means that the outcome is determined. i was a prosecutor for a long time, in front of lots of judges, appointed by lots of different people. and i can tell you, to my perception, never made a bit of difference in my work. >> chuck rosenberg, thank you. one of the governors who just stood beside president biden as he explained the executive order tightening the u.s./mexico border, is getting to a camera outside of the white

house. joining us, governor michelle grisham. >> thank you, chris. >> when you head back to new mexico, how is your work connected to the border different? what is your best hope? and what is the realistic expectation? >> my realistic expectation is that we motivate congress to do work here. it will take more than this order. but traffic is way up at ports of entry. risk is up at ports of entry. 180 miles of open border. few people are coming across. too many still. this means we curb that and resources where i need them most. new mexico needs this concentration, so we're getting the bad actors. we are protecting folks with asylum. and we get congress to do the rest of the work.

>> you know that congress, at least until the election, is not going to do this work. you know the president was criticiing them. he said they walked away because donald trump told them to do so. donald trump is not going to change his position here. between now and the election, one of the things we heard from the local mayor along the border, one of the things that the critics, the democrats have said, is more resources, more things need to be done that the president can do unilaterally. what would you like to see him doing? did you have that conversation with him? >> i've had many conversations with the executive branch. and the president has been quite clear in conversations with me, that getting resources to where we need them most, in fact, does make a difference. and because you're right, congress refuses to act.

we have border security ready to go and the same thing happened. too many members of congress prevented its ultimate passage. always bipartisan work. if i know, and i do now, there's a process, to make sure that we're putting the resources that we have, into the places i need most, that means that the resources my state puts up, is leveraged in a more effective manner. it's good policy. i recognize so much more has to be done on both ends. security and protecting innocent victims along the border. both. i for one, am pleased that the president has taken decisive action, that takes into consideration the realities that states like mine have. surging resources where i need them at the border, making sure all of us are safer. >> and to critics, who say,

look, the president said from the beginning, that if youcount the time that the border bill failed. he's only doing this because he's taking a look at the polls that show that donald trump is making inroads with latino voters. looking into battleground states, what do you say to them? this is too little, too late. >> i say that the president is taking action, you're not. and while those political critics will use whatever political statement, that moves attention from the fact that they've made new mexicans less safe. they haven't funded more border patrol agents. they aren't using other that they're allowing other border governors to close ports of entry, which means billions of dollars of trade and food to new mexicans doesn't come over. i want a president that regardless of what critics will

say will do the right work in the moment that demands it. that's exactly what he's done here. and you're right. and so is everybody else. more needs to be done. and i'll keep fighting that fight with congress and i'll keep working with this administration doing everything in our power until people come to their senses in congress and pass comprehensive immigration reform. >> new mexico's governor michelle lujan grisham who was just in the east room of the white house. thank you so much. we appreciate you taking time to talk to us. >> thank you, chris. >> coming up how former president trump's guilty verdict has fueled a massive fund-raising frenzy. what's the message in it for team biden? you're watching "chris jansing reports" only on msnbc. jansing reports" only on msnbc relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment

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donald trump's fund-raising numbers after his 34 criminal convictions are so high that even the biden campaign calls them startling. more than 2 million donations added up to an astonishingly strong $141 million for trump and the rnc in may. and while the numbers have to be confirmed by official filings and we are waiting for word of joe biden's haul, it will almost certainly shrink biden's fund-raising advantage. against that backdrop joe biden is getting more aggressive against trump over his attacks on the justice system, calling trump unhinged at a connecticut fund-raiser last night. the trump campaign responded

that he's just trying to divert attention from his son's criminal trial. jennifer palmieri is back joining us. republican strategist susan del percio, both jen and susan are msnbc political analysts. so jen, this is the likely -- we have to see the filings. but likely the second straight month trump has outraised biden. in this upside down political world where 34 criminal convictions injects new financial life into a presidential campaign. what's the message to team biden, frankly? we seem to have lost jen's sound. i think you're muted. >> so sorry. >> there we go. >> i muted myself in the break. i'm sorry. i'm back. it's a huge number. but it's not surprising. you would understand that trump's base is very motivated by this. i think that the biden campaign should also be able to now raise money because i think that will

alarm a lot of democrats, because biden has had a big cash advantage over trump. trump's got a lot of legal bills to pay for. so some of that money's going to go to that. but i still think ultimately when you look at -- that's great for trump, $141 million. 52% of independents think he should no longer be the nominee because he is now a convicted felon. so i do think that sort of outweighs the benefit of the money, the problems the conviction has caused. and you saw it. biden talked about it in connecticut. i think that's the right frame to talk about it. not about what he did necessarily as the fact that he won't accept the result. another example of him not accepting democratic results just as he did with the 2020 election. and that's the real danger for voters that are considering choices in november. >> he's already spent, susan, donald trump, about $100 million by one estimate on legal fees.

we don't know how much more of this money would go to that. but it does seem to give him some breathing room in terms of ground game where the democrats at least have said that they're ahead. advertising, right? even though there's an argument that donald trump is his own advertising machine. give me your analysis of what the real world impact is of these kinds of numbers because there were people, as you well know, who thought that trump's supporters were getting tapped out. clearly not. >> clearly not. and a lot of these donors are repeat donors. they're small dollar donors. and yes, it's good for donald trump. but i don't think there was a world that we were going to be living in in 2024 where both sides weren't going to have tons and tons of money. it's just when you have it and what you spend it on. so biden had it early and he's been building up a ground game. donald trump is coming into it now, but he keeps paying legal bills with it. and what else is he spending it on? he's not building out ground operations. we see with the rnc they're more

concerned about attacking fellow lens like larry hogan than actually talking about how to win a republican senate seat. so again, i go back to how is the trump campaign spending the money? but make no mistake, it does give them a good storyline. >> he also now with the trial over has more time to fund-raise, more time to go out and, again, with money potentially do some of the big rallies that we know fuel him. what does that mean for the campaign? >> those big rallies do just that. they fuel him. they fuel his base. what's he going to do in those swing states? you've got to build up ground games. these are elections that are going to be won on the margins. we know what happened in 2016 and 2020. you need to be out there shaking hands, meeting people where they are. one of the most impressive things i actually think joe biden has done is going -- when he goes into states, he meets with people. they put out videos on it.

they really maximize those fund-raising events, the campaign events, and then social media contact, voter contact. >> i mentioned, jen, some of the tough stuff that joe biden said behind closed doors but with a pool there in connecticut last night including i think he said something snapped in donald trump. a lot of people who know him think this is a genuine reflection of how joe biden feels. does he need to take that even more public in the debate if not before? this is going far beyond his first reaction to trump's conviction about respecting the process. >> right. and it is -- you know, that was when biden had spoken on the morning after the conviction, it was before we'd seen some of the behavior from trump over the weekend. that was pretty -- it was pretty unhinged. i think between now and the debate and then between now and

the sentencing you will see a big effort from the biden campaign to not just -- not just with the president but to make sure people understand that that trial was fair and that biden, this is another example of trump not being able to accept the results of the election. and that is a big vulnerability for trump because we know when you look at the 30% of people or 20% of people who continue to vote for nikki haley in republican primaries, the independents who say this is their concern, you know, the new republicans are open to voting for biden because of january 6th, that is what they're worried about. it makes raising the stakes on democracy and the threat that trump poses real. >> you know, in real estate it's location, location, location. in the presidential it's undecideds, undecideds, undecideds. jen palmieri, susan del percio, thank you so much. for more analysis from both jennifer and susan you can check out msnbc's how to win 2024 newsletter. you can sign up to receive it right to your inbox.

right there, see where it says scan to sign up? to the left of that you see that code, the qr code. susan, by the way, has a new piece that's coming out in just a couple of hours about what we can learn from today's republican primaries including that really interesting one in new jersey. so it's there. scan it and sign up. and before we go, it sounds like it's straight out of a mob movie, but instead of a brown paper bag stuffed with cash the bag of money in this story is white and it's covered with little butterflies. it's filled with almost $120,000. a juror in a minnesota fraud trial says this unassuming bag was dropped off late sunday night at her house. the star tribune newspaper reports the juror's father-in-law was confronted by an unknown woman who said there would, quote, be more of that present tomorrow if the juror voted to acquit seven people charged with stealing more than $40 million from a program that was meant to feed children during the pandemic. the juror was