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tv   The 11th Hour With Stephanie Ruhle  MSNBC  June 4, 2024 11:00pm-12:00am PDT

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chuck schumer does not believe the supreme court can police itself. >> justice roberts in my opinion has not lived up to his responsibilities of chief justice, on issue after issue he is supposed to be the guardian of the fairness and opinion but on something near and dear to me, forum shopping, ethics, so i and the judiciary committee are discussing the best ways to move forward. >> senator schumer gets tonight's last word. the 11th hour starts now. tonight joe biden unleashes a new offensive against trump calling him out as a convicted felon who snapped after losing in 2020. the president moves to crackdown on illegal immigration. will a i up and the presidential elections? new fears about the potential threat.
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the 11th hour gets underway on this tuesday night. is tuesday good evening, once again i am stephanie live from rockefeller center, we are 154 days away from the election. president biden is sharply escalating his attacks on trump. so far biden has maintained radio silence on multiple indictments and there are reports of divisions within the campaign on whether or not he should publicly discuss trump's legal woes. now after the guilty verdict the president has made up his mind. during a fundraiser biden called him unhinged blasting him as a convicted felon who snapped after losing the 2020 election but he is not alone. earlier today on the hill, attorney general garland defended himself in the justice
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department against repeated attacks from house republicans who claim without evidence that the department has a blatantly political agenda which includes targeting trump. my colleague holly jackson has those details. >> reporter: a message blunt and sharp tonight from the attorney general. >> i will not be intimidated and the justice department will not be intimidated. >> reporter: a defense, targeting the public and the tax on the justice department and suggesting that the oj had a hand in the conviction last week. >> that conspiracy theory is a attack on the judicial process itself. >> reporter: many republicans believe the bidens the oj is playing politics. the house gop looking to hold garland in contempt for defying a subpoena for the audio for the interview who ultimately declined to prosecute the
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president over mishandling documents. the transcript has been released but republicans want more. >> again there is absolutely no evidence to support any of these allegations but that is not stopping house republicans. earlier today johnson announced a new three part plan designed to go after the department of justice. >> we have rogue prosecutors around the country that have drugged trump to the process because of who he is. we are looking at various approaches of what can be done through the legislative process, through bills that are advancing to our committees and also through oversight. all of those things will be happening vigorously. >> let's get smarter with the help of the leadoff panel this evening. a staff writer for the new
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yorker, and jeremy a criminal defense attorney and former manhattan prosecutor. i want to start by asking you about biden's decision to talk aggressively about trump's conviction. you mentioned a internal debate within his circle. any idea why he decided to just go for it last night? >> he probably thinks the politics are good. this was his second opportunity to come to the cameras. the first time was last friday and if you listen he was careful to focus his criticism on trump's response to the verdict and it seemed like that was the lily pad the white house would put the president on, they will leave it to outside surrogates to attack him for being a convicted felon. the campaign itself may use convicted felon and press releases which they later did friday.
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but the first time the president had the opportunity to, not only did he say it but the campaign sent out a transcript ahead of time of what the president was going to say so it was calculated and premeditated. the answer is obvious, they probably think the politics cuts in their favor. >> susan, this is now biden openly calling trump a felon, does it change the campaign in any way? is it a new phase for biden in 2024? >> yes and no. the sunshine is bright, trump is a convicted felon now and he would be whether biden used the words or not. i do think it is a important reminder. trump had more than a year to prepare for the moment when this may happen, you saw this
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premeditated barrage of statements not only in support of him from republicans but ripping down the justice system and a effort to goose fundraising's. democrats did not have the same kind of plan for what to do in the event of a conviction. so i think it is interesting we are still trying to figure out what the democrats strategy is. i am looking ahead to that debate that is scheduled between the two of them and wondering what is the approach of the incumbent president of the u.s. to somebody that not only wants to take back the office but biden said it openly in a time magazine interview, he does not believe trump is fit for the office regardless whether biden was the candidate or not and that is a tough position to be in to be on the
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same stage with that person who is a convicted felon. >> we have never had a felon run for the white house, trump is set to be sentenced one week before the republican conviction in milwaukee. how does this work? >> he has to meet with the department of probation and they will ask questions about what happened in that conviction and he has to be honest and truthful. if he is not the judge will take that into consideration. if you work convicted and did not take responsibility and you continue to call the system corrupt -- >> which he will do. >> he will find himself incarcerated upstate. this is not falsifying business records for stealing 50 grand were more, if you believe the theory he did it to impact the election and if there is anybody more deserving under these facts, but just because you can it does not mean you
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should and that will be the big issue for the judge. >> republicans are trying to spin the conviction but the group for republican voters against trump just launched a six-figure billboard campaign with former trump voters specifically that have said they will not vote for him because he was found guilty. who is this campaign aimed at? >> good question, drivers, people that drive and look at billboards. campaigns broadcast on different frequencies and sometimes they appear to be targeting one group but they are trying to get another so this made the a attempt to give permission to independent voters who have not quite made up their mind on trump. it is hard for those of us that follow politics to think people do not have opinions on trump but apparently there are 6% of americans out there that will
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decide the election. i think this will be a mini campaign focusing on it, i do not think it will be many americans left when he gets closer to the election that do not know about the conviction. the question is do you think it is fair, that is why you see the trump allies and campaigns trying to muddy the waters questioning the fairness of the system and that will be part of the conversation going forward. i think we should be bracing for that. >> just when i think i have a clever question, he hits me way between the eyes. drivers. very rarely do we see this but garland reached a breaking point when the republicans were going after him. what did you make of how he handled the house? >> that is conflict theater arranged by the house
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republicans. especially jim jordan, he is the master of this pro trump theatrics which is a lot of what the house of representatives has become since republicans took back control of the house and the midterm. it is interesting because remember the reason republicans are going after garland now is because of the collapse of their impeach biden strategy. jordan and the congressman were leaders in that effort and basically their key witness ended up being indicted. the justice department turned out to be peddling a false story and essentially their effort to go after biden himself flopped it is why you saw the impeachment and you see them going after the attorney general. garland has been criticized by
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democrats for being too slow to go after trump and to observant of the old processes in a new political moment and i thought this was very 2024, if you finally get garland to punch back. >> i apologize, i am sure our audience does not want to be subjected to more of this at this hour but i want to share even more of house republicans from today going after the attorney general because none of what they are saying is true. watch this. >> for the first time in american history we have a presidential administration working to put his opponent in jail. that is a fact. >> you are allowing the department and the agents to engage in political prosecution of their opponents. >> it will do great damage well beyond our time in public service. >> does that sound like to you that what they are saying is
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that trump and his allies are above the laws because their statements bear no resemblance to facts. >> there is facts or law. these are the same people that went after democrats that were saying the fund the police but they want to tear down to the department of justice and ripped down the fbi. it is disappointing and upsetting. outside the courtroom backed before the trial. innocent in that courtroom until proven guilty. it was a attack on the justice system. >> outside of the bubble, outside people with expertise, people do not know better. publicly garland is not political. given what republicans are doing, does it matter? they are making things up to satisfy their base. >> the main issue you see with garland is there is a little
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bit of disappointment in the white house that he has not been more political work punched back harder. i think today we saw that. remember he was going to be on the supreme court and they ran out the clock. he was not actually there. he was a circuit court judge and now he is attorney general. that is the main issue i saw there, the other issue is republicans do not have the votes for contempt. it is clear they do not have that vote. if they did that with change the conversation. that can change the right now they do not have them. >> they do not need the votes, what they are looking to do is muddy the waters and confuse the american people. i want to touch on a point hans made. some of the white house has been frustrated that garland is
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unwilling to get more political and punch back harder and now here he is getting painted at super political. all of the downside of being political when he was not doing so. should he have been? look where it ended up for him? >> that is washington for you on some level but i do think when you consider where he will go down in the record books as attorney general, it is hard not to reflect on and second- guess without full information of course but to wonder if things me have been different. we will not have either one of the two federal cases against trump that were brought by the justice department special counsel for jackman. another one will go to trial this year. there are a lot of democrats and outside observers that think the reason for that is
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garland essentially in his caution on embarking on investigations on trump in the immediate aftermath of generally six. we are looking at four years after the dramatic events of 2020 and what followed the election and yet we will still not have a resolution on those serious allegations against the former president before he may be reelected to the office and that will go on the ledger, positively or negatively for the attorney general. >> thank use both so much. when we return, president biden is shifting the border blaine, saying trump and republicans left him no choice but to act in a big way. opening statements are underway in the federal gun trial of the president's only living son. the 11th hour is just getting underway. .
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we must face a simple truth, to protect the land that welcomes immigrants we must first sit toward the border now. >> earlier today biden signed a executive order that shuts down asylum claims once they reach a certain level. >> reporter: down here in a border town in texas a lot of things are continuing as usual. just behind me at this is station migrants are still boarding the bus isn't going to other places in the country. what will change effective today is when more migrants come across to turn themselves into border patrol they will not be eligible unless they can prove they meet a higher standard. if they can prove a likelihood of torture upon return or if they have a acute medical need
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or they are a accompanied child. otherwise they cannot get asylum if they cross illegally. this is a page from trump's playbook so we can expect to see swift action from immigration advocacy organization that will challenge this in court. another practical problem with this according to border patrol agents is that ice and border patrol lacked the manpower to put into place. they will have to do for anyone not eligible and there will be so many people not eligible and they lack the space to hold them in ice facilities and they lack the number of airplanes to deport them. furthermore a huge growing nationality of venezuelans coming across and venezuela refuses to take back any of its nationals being deported from the u.s. which would create a
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problem for the way this is supposed to go but for those that still want to cross illegally they can continue to do so. they can make a appointment through the application and life will continue. it is part of the strategy to make it harder to cross illegally and open up more pathways to cross illegally. we are hearing from republicans today that are saying it is too late. >> one might say what have they done lately. i want to welcome former democratic congressman tim ryan of ohio, founder of the organization we the people. glad to have you here tonight. the former advisor to george bush and john mccain and the director at the center of politics at the university of virginia where he is a professor and presidential historian. speaker mike johnson called today's executive action windowdressing.
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i am not saying we have not been waiting a while for something aggressive but what in the world have republicans done at all on the border? >> they had a chance, there was a comprehensive bill in the senate. senator langford, a good guy, sincere guy, reached across the aisle, you heard they were talking about not having enough border patrol to secure it, you need a act of congress to appropriate the money to hire border patrol which is what the deal included so biden is now forced to do the executive order with zero help from republicans. not a lot in politics is obvious, this is obvious, we had a bill, we had a bill it was deep-sixed now biden needs the executive order. just go to the last segment, the truth does not matter.
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what they can continue to repeat . hopefully they can persuade some middle-of-the-road voters. i think biden had to do this, it is not as strong as anybody once because it is not a act of congress. >> you and i have spoken a lot about the border over the last couple of years. what you think of this move? >> it shows that the democrats had a plan that tim pointed out, republicans wanted to use the issue as a weapon. the system is broken. most people will say that sounds reasonable. they know there is a real crisis there. the problem for me is through body language, they left a open field to republicans who have
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talked about it everyday and biden has not talked about it much and has not been down there much. but republicans see that and take advantage of it. my criticism has been the democrats have plans. dhs has a plan to distribute funds to different localities to take the burden off the border and it has never been executed and i do not know why. i just wish -- democrats have a good bill so today is a good start. they just need to talk about it more because it is a issue people care about. >> the president is taking action. you do not need me to tell you it is a election year and we know all sorts of voters. democrats and republicans from all over the country, they are
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concerned about immigration. do you think the president's actions now will have a impact given how much republicans have been banging on about it for the past three years? >> it will have this impact, it gives democrats a complete answer. a short punchy answer that will enable biden to move to issues that democrats can be victorious on because it certainly is not immigration. they can go to reproductive rights or the preservation of the republic. he needed something that would enable him to transition to better issues and now he has a answer. it is not just that trump killed the bipartisan immigration reform which would have been a solid move. he can also say we have come up with this, it is a reasonable solution and by the way here are the other issues that really matter this year. again democrats will not be
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victorious on immigration and they need to change the subject even though it is important. >> there is a lot of reasons why i am happy you are here tonight but this one specifically. there is one group of people that will not be happy about biden's action today. that is the more progressive members of your party. we are hearing from some of them, they are not happy, what is your take? >> you have to understand we do need to know who is coming in and out of the country, there are national security implications and we need a orderly process. most people in the country appreciate immigration the problem you have when you talk to republicans and independents is you cannot jump the line. >> there are many democrats that feel that way. >> including myself and many others. you cannot let the tail wag the dog, of course we do not want to separate families.
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that is why you want biden as president implemented does not trump going through the horrific things we went through last time. the other line of attack is trump is in it for himself. you talk about the trial -- >> i better write this down, one more time, you said trump is in it for himself. i got it. >> it plays into it, it is not about the country or the border. you are full of it and this is one more example. then pivot to other issues. most people think we have to have a solid border, immigration is good for the economy, all of a sudden people go from not paying into social security to driving the economy, the unions can organize them and you can drive up wages, there is a argument here. >> it is stunning, former
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president trump says he is the good guy for business, he wants mass deportation which would be devastating for the economy. some members of the democratic party, or left-wing lawmakers are unhappy with biden for taking this turn. >> it is a page out of sister soldier from bill clinton. go ahead and make some people feel pain from the left. it suggests to people in the middle that biden will take tough measures that need to be taken. the point is, where are the progressives going to go? to trump who wants to do a mass deportation? >> his position on immigration was compassionate. there is nothing compassionate about trump's approach. you may be unhappy with biden's
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approach if you are super progressive but it is reasonable. listen, you want biden as president next fall. not trump, you will be unhappy with what he will do. >> you said democrats want to make this point and move on but break down, what does the polling say when it comes to border and immigration now? until a few months ago, we have always heard about the order from republicans and less from democrats, the ones that have taken action in the last few months. >> i think four years now, not just during biden's term, republicans have been favored whenever you discuss immigration because democrats have been afraid of the issue. one point that should be made is, in my experience, progressives in this era are not the equivalent to the far right
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on the other side, they are really unreasonable. they will not compromise. they will beat their party leaders to a pulp if it helps get a amendment passed. progressives, do they have more liberal views than others? they do and sometimes it can hurt. tim ryan and a great race because he was a centrist. still the progressives are reasonable and as mark was saying, who are they going to vote for? they will throw the votes away if they go for rfk or one of the other three independents. they are certainly not going to sit home because if they do they are as guilty as anybody that votes for trump. in the end they will be reasonable and come back to biden. so i am not saying treat them badly, just recognize that they are more pragmatic.
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that is not a bad word. they are more pragmatic than the far right is. >> i like when larry says the word. great to see you here in new york. when we return opening statements begin in hunter biden's federal gun trial. we will break down the legal strategy on both sides when the 11th hour continues. r continue.
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with a jury seated, opening statements in hunter biden's trial got underway. we also heard from the first witness as a prosecution put a fbi agent on the stand to testify about biden's laptop. >> reporter: tonight the prosecution kicking off the case against the son of the president with one simple message. nobody is above the law. in opening arguments the prosecutor saying hunter was a user of crack and a drug addict. he chose to lie on a government form about his drug use when he purchased a 38 caliber handgun. nobody is allowed to lie on a farm like that, even hunter
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biden. pointing to the defendants own words in his own voice. >> mainly we planted ourselves on the couch and smoked crack. by now i possessed a superpower, the ability to find crack in any town at any time no matter how unfamiliar the terrain. >> reporter: his mother and sister were in court, visibly shaken and embracing each other. hunter is charged with three counts related to illegally purchasing and possessing a gun well using narcotics and faces prison time. the defense attorney telling the jury today you will see he is not guilty. hunter did not knowingly lie on the farm arguing during that narrow window of time biden was not acting like someone who was smoking crack every 20 minutes.
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late today the first prosecution witness testified about hunter's laptop telling jurors investigators found text messages detailing interactions with drug dealers around the time he made the purchase. >> former manhattan prosecutor jeremy is back with us. what stood out to you? >> a few things stuck out i will read from the prosecution's opening. nobody is above the law. in this country the law applies to everybody equally. it does not make a distinction between trump biden or anybody else. that is they are but i would argue when you look at the two cases and the argument you are hearing from people saying weaponization of the justice system, hunter is being prosecuted for a crime you rarely see is a top charge and they are taking the person who is the seller, who took the wrong id, he used a passport
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which is not permissible, and he is now cooperating and testifying against hunter. why do you want to go after hunter and not the company or store that is unlawfully selling firearms? there is so much about this that is off and it seems to be far more born from politics than anybody can accuse the manhattan case. >> what you think of the strategy so far? >> the defense is doing a good job making it clear what addiction is. that is part of the statute. there was great point made in the opening. when you are in a a you are a addict, you may not be using for years or ever use again but you are always a recovering addict. so it is a vague issue.
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on the flip i thought the prosecution did what they needed to do when they started with the first witness. you hearing from hunter's own voice that he was a addict and a abuser. >> so you think it is a good strategy? it seems like the defense is spending a lot of time focusing on the fact he is a addict. >> that is ultimately where you have to go, you cannot dispute he filled it out, you cannot deny it. what is the situation? are you a addict at the time according to the statute? that is a vague statute, similar statutes have been questioned recently. i will add this, marijuana is a controlled substance on the federal level so if somebody is addicted to marijuana, if you use it three times a day,
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doesn't mean all of those people should be prosecuted? clearly there is a issue here. >> where do you see this trial ultimately going? >> it will be a hard left for the defense, it is one where you keep on hammering he is not a addict in that moment. he did not believe he was a addict, he did not knowingly unlawfully fill out that form, in that moment he was okay. >> you said it is going to be a heavy lift for the defense, did you mean prosecution? >> i feel like it is harder for the defense. are you a addict when you fill this out? it is not when you last used drugs, are you a addict? it is a vague issue. it is a real concern that the statute and the paperwork was not clear and that is the angle
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they have to go with. >> thank you. when we come back call it the ai election. if you thought the threat of misinformation was bad in 2016, wait until you see what ai can do in 2024. we have that when the 11th hour continues. r continues.
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months from tomorrow and the leader of the senate intelligence committee is sounding the alarm about threats that could spread misinformation and underline democracy. what is he doing about it? he says the u.s. is less prepared to deal with it then it was four years ago and that is in least in part because of the eye. it matches a warning from my next guest to published a column with the title why this year's election interference could make 2016 look cute. josh, we like to give our viewers horrible nightmares. help us out. what is it that is so horrific about ai that makes the last election look like child's play? >> one is the technology itself, which is by far the most capable thing humans ever
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invented to replicate truth. it can do it in text, video, audio and it costs very little. we can replicate what we think of as traditionally true information across the entire web. we can make the president look like he is saying all kinds of things through the fakes. the second problem is the lack of responsibility and enforcement by the parties that should be regulating how they use the technology. it is a perfect collision. nobody seems interested in doing anything about it prior to november. to make the two parties would be the ai companies and lawmakers. what are they doing? >> it is three parties really. first it is the ai makers. open ai, and tropic, all of those companies are saying we
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are very concerned about the capabilities of ai to do great things and negative things. we are very concerned. that is fine but concerned does nothing. i said ultimately their concern is well it may be genuine but the answer is we have to make better and more ai which is similar to wayne saying the only way to stop it bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun so let's do more which is a very american solution, let's not regulate it, we will make more commerce and we will eventually commerce our way out of it. number two, the senate which has a ai gang of senators that declared their interest in regulating ai, getting it right, being fast and methodical, they have done none of those things. the most recent statement which is a ai roadmap which is 30
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pages immediately got friendly fire from democrats who said this is preposterous. a call for more fundraising but where is watermarking? what about having ai makers have identification on things that are deep fakes. none of that is in there. the third party is the social media makers. from 2016 as we recall, mark sat on a stage and said it is pretty insane to think that facebook had anything to do with the election. >> that is a insane thing to say. >> let's cast our way back to eight years ago and we were more naove, we did not know the extent to which russian misinformation had a impact on the election, a year later mark said he regretted the statement and they were wrong.
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what happened behind the scenes over the last eight years the social media and the fbi and the doj started collaborating. >> they know each other well given the lobbying and dollars mark spence in washington. >> they seem to have actually found -- they started spotting misinformation, specifically foreign misinformation and they zap it before it spreads. this was going great until july when two republican attorney general's filed suit claiming this kind of behavior was a censorship regime and you can see a world in which a president, possibly one with a narcissistic disorder will call a social media company, tell it to take stuff down and claim it is misinformation and it could
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be perceived as censorship and the court ruled in their favor. so in the last eight months there have been zero communication between the social media makers and the doj and the government. >> let's go back to group one, the ai companies, open ai specifically, the new york times has a piece out that says people in the company have expressed concerns about how reckless they are. a few months ago the former board members kicked out the ceo for reckless behavior and he turned it on their head and he is back in charge. what should we make of that? >> there are two issues, the reckless behavior they are talking about makes the concerns about the election seems small. they are calling out sam for disabling a red team in charge of creating ai safety more
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generally. the issue is that silicon valley overlooks the importance of a civil society and when things using technology jeopardizes it it is always somebody else's problem. it is not unique to silicon valley, it is true of people that run railroads and energy companies but the problem is we have this unique misalignment where everybody is pointing at everybody else and saying you will do it and the election is five months away and we know because the director of the fbi has been saying quietly and insistently without causing panic, guys, this seems to be an issue, maybe we can get together. he does not have the tools. that is why it plays out in slow motion but it is not hard to figure out where we're going. >> thanks again for the
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nightmares josh. when we returned we have heartbreaking news to share in the world of journalism. our special tribute to our special friend, the incredible in white, when the 11th hour continues. continues.
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the last thing before we go tonight, remembering our dear friend ben white. a frequent guest on this show and my 9:00 in the morning show, long time contributor ben white has died after a brief illness. he was just 52 years old. ben was a truly good man. a proud father a accomplished reporter who worked at the new york times and the messenger. ben's partner shared the news and reminded us of how he lived, as a family man, a sports fan, he rooted for the commanders for many years.
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he talked about the real impacts on the shutdowns of society and the economy. i had the honor of being on television with him over 100 times over the years and every time he joined us he helped us achieve our main goal, to get better and smarter. that was easy for him because ben white was the very best. i will forever be grateful for the knowledge he shared with us and for his friendship. this is a hard and competitive business and having a friend in this business like ben was a gift and i will treasure our friendship forever. our condolences go out to his entire family and all of those who are grateful to know and love him. thank you ben, i will miss you. on that note i wish you

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