- custom ink helps us motivate our students with custom gear. we love how custom ink takes care of everything we need, so we can focus on the kids. - [narrator] custom ink has hundreds of products to help you feel connected. upload your logo or start your design today at customink.com good to be with you. i'm katy tur. democracy begins with each of us. today, in the very spot where u.s. army rangers scaled the 100 foot cliffs of .2 hawk on

d-day, president biden delivered a message to the american people, don't let the authoritarians win. he did it with the memory of what those, quote, brave boys did on those cliffs 80 years ago. and what they did it for. >> does anyone doubt that they would want america to stand up against putin's aggression here in europe today? they stormed the beaches alongside their ally, does anyone believe these rangers would want america to go it alone today. they fought to vanquish a hateful ideology, in their 30s and 40s. does anyone doubt they wouldn't move heaven and earth to vanquish hateful ideologies of today. these rangers put mission and country above themselves. does anyone believe they would exact any lesson of every american today. these rangers remembered with reverence, those who gave their lives in battle.

could they or anyone ever imagine that america would do the same, wouldn't do the same. >> delivered 3,000 miles away. it was a message for americans back at home. he said it's not just vladimir putin. it's another guy who wants to be just like them. >> we talk about democracy, american democracy. we often talk about the ideals of life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. what we don't talk about is how hard it is, how many ways we're asked to walk away, how many instincts are to walk away. the most natural instinct is to walk away. to be selfish, to force our will upon others, to seize power to never give up. american democracy asks the hardest of things, to believe we're part of something bigger than ourselves.

democracy begins with each of us. it begins when one person decides there's more important than themselves. when they decide the person alongside them is someone to look after. when they decide the mission matters more than their life. when they decide that their country matters more than they do. >> joining us now, nbc news senior white house correspondent kelly o'donnell, and nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard. so kelly, that quote, democracy begins with each of us, in the context of that quote, it's pretty clear who president biden is talking about, but he never says his name. >> and that was expected because when the president is overseas, typically, especially president like joe biden who believes in the institutions would not bring raw politics into a discussion on a world stage, but it was there for the taking for those who wanted to see the message and relate it to what we're dealing with in the election

season, and some of the issues and debates that are happening in the u.s. on an every day basis. by tapping into the very broad support, respect, and reverence that the american people, regardless of their political party or what candidate they favor now, what they feel toward the world war ii generation is a way to sort of hasten the call that there are new kinds of challenges today for americans who can be active in new ways. it's not scaling the cliff at pointe du hoc. it's not storming the beach at normandy. there are other ways americans can engage politically, serving their communities, doing all of the things that support democracy and the values at stake here. that's what the president really wanted to do is to connect, history that matters, that was decisive, that all americans feel a sense of legacy, and to put it in the modern context, knowing there are debates among families, neighbors, coworkers, citizens among us who view the election season very differently

or what the role of the united states is in the world today. view that differently. and the president trying to argue there is a place for americans to stand up against, the violence aggression of russia as well as other forces that pose a danger, katy. >> vaughn, in contrast, you have former president donald trump and i'm going to go back in time a little bit. he gave an interview to "time" magazine, talking about what he would be like when he was president, and the reporters said there are a lot of people out there who are nervous when you say you would be a dictator on day one. they don't like it. it's not about one person. it's not about you. it's about all of us and about acknowledging and being a part of something bigger than just yourself. what is donald trump running on? >> right. donald trump is run on what he

says is the protection of the united states in the way in which he sees or conveys to a large swath of the population is one that is protecting the heritage and the foundation of what this country is. for donald trump, you know, just yesterday he made the case that joe biden is the worst president of the united states. this is while president joe biden was overseas, on the campaign stage in arizona, saying that not only was he the worst president of the united states, but also making the case to voters that america is going to hell. he called the current leader of this country incompetent and weak and old, which is in stark contrast to the message you heard the current president of the united states trying to convey to our allies on the global stage about what the united states is and what it stands for. instead, donald trump is using the microphone to convince a majority of americans,

potentially at the cost of the public relations campaign of the united states as a whole that america is becoming a third world country, is allowing itself to be overtaken by disease and crime, coming across our borders, is allowing political persecution to take place in the united states and making the case that the foundation of the american democracy is under attack. of course a lot of the facts that donald trump puts out there are not, in fact, facts. but they are marginalized takes and push back to the indictments that have been leveed against him, the criminal conviction that was handed down to him by 12 jurors through the u.s. justice system. for him, a lot of what is america's perceived positioning on the world stage is something that donald trump is trying to take control of himself.

it's complex, it's difficult, but the reality is that millions of americans are feeding into the narrative of the america that donald trump articulates on the global stage within our own borders, as opposed to that that is being presented by the current president of the united states, joe biden, overseas. >> vaughn hillyard, kelly o'donnell, thank you for starting us off with the reporting. joining us now for the strategy, the context, the analysis, former biden white house press secretary and host of msnbc's "inside with jen psaki," good to have you. >> great to be here as always. >> let's talk about today. you have president biden trying to make a contrast with former president trump, the man who said, i alone can fix versus the man who stood on the cliff saying it's about all of us working together. that message about saving democracy and not going at it alone is getting to a lot of voters. there are a lot of voters who agree with him. but there are a lot of voters

who are not seeing that as their number one issue, and those are the voters who are waffling or looking to donald trump. how does the biden team counter act that? >> i think, and you touched on both of them. there are two messages on the speech from a domestic audience. one of them is kind of asking the public who is listening to harken back to what our ideals are, what they have long been, back to the greatest generation, and that was obviously a clear theme in this speech, and democracy has mattered, as you said, it's not the number one issue for everybody, it's a bigger issue than we anticipate every time leading to an election cycle. the second one is the other point you touched on, which is bigger than -- or more expansive in the moment, talking about the efforts of the allied forces who scaled that wall. it's about the fact that joe biden is saying, i am the guy who's going to fight for you. i care about the ideas of our

country. that contrast, should be, katy, a big continuing theme. i care about all of you, i'm fighting for you. he cares about fighting for himself. he was trying to keep himself out of jail. that's part of what i think obviously when he comes back from overseas, kelly said and i completely agree with this, president biden is not somebody who's going to do an overt political attack overseas. and that's intentional, when he comes back, that's a big part of the theme. the other thing i would add, just to harken back a little bit to history here, and i think this is part of also what he was trying to appeal to, is i read reagan's speech from 40 years ago on d-day this afternoon because there's so many echoes of that, and part of what what he says, reagan in that speech were bound today, by what bound us 40 years ago, the same loyalties, traditions and believes. bound by reality, the strength is vital to the united states and the american security

guarantee is essential to the continued freedom of europe's democracies. it's important to remember that because also what president biden is doing is reminding people, this is not, these values and these fundamentals of what he was talking about today are not partisan. they haven't historically or tradition that willy been partisan. they are part of who we are as a country. ronald reagan was long. maybe he's not anymore. the great example of every republican running for office. that's not the maga example. ronald reagan saying in that speech 40 years ago could be intertwined with what president biden was saying today. that's an interesting part of his messaging as well. >> you know, reagan, that many years ago had an easy way to get to american audiences, it was make that speech and every network would carry it. >> that's true. >> it would be in every newspaper, and that's where you would get that information. those were the outlets. now it's so diversified. you can go to us, broadcast news, the newspapers, but

there's also twitter and social media and whatever corner of the internet you want to go to to hear. how do you breakthrough that, the people that maybe aren't going for the politics but the people not paying attention period? >> it's certainly not just speeches as historic and beautiful as that backdrop was today. i'm not saying that. part of it is also empowering and engaging your supporters to be able to interact on all of those platforms you said. it's not just a messaging tool, although social media platforms are an organizational tool. that's how the campaign is using. what i think should be learning to supporters of president biden is how quickly donald trump built support on places like tiktok, right. because his supporters, his size is much much bigger. now it's not just about size. it's also about the impact of the type of content you're doing. that is where, especially, katy, when we're talking about these double haters as we're

shorthanding and the type of people that president biden and the campaign needs to bring over to their side, needs to bring back home or convince them to vote for him if they haven't voted for him before, they're younger, they're more diverse, less politically engaged and they are not necessarily reading, you know, every -- they're not reading the reagan speech necessarily. maybe some of them are. they are not consuming the same news that ronald reagan was communicating through. they have to also communicate through the forces. >> how do you think they're doing on that? i know that the biden team sees this as an extremely important election. maybe the last election. and they're trying to run on that. they're trying to say, america, they got to take this seriously. this is no joke. donald trump wants to be a dictator, he said so, and he might not leave. how are they doing on making sure because they don't want this to happen, making sure

donald trump doesn't win again? >> well, it's very hard to gauge in the moment, and it's hard for any of us to gauge. and we pay close attention to it. a lot of what they're doing, in a different way, the trump team is doing, is not seen every day. it's not every speech. it's not every public statement. it's a lot of the type of person-to-person organizing engagement that's happening on these platforms. that's much harder to gauge if you're not doing it every single day. i will say they recognize, and i have talked to them about this, they have a very talented and smart team of people who are doing this. they have done a lot with these tools, even from many of the same people who were working in the white house when i was there, where you don't have money. you don't have funds to put money towards it, and you have to be creative and think outside of the box and do that. that is where a lot of this race is going to be won or lost is going to be how people communicate and how the campaigns communicate on those

platforms. there are still big moments, katy. obviously big speeches like today. we're all talking about it. the debate coming up will be another moment that is kind of a landing place where they will do organizing from on the platforms. it's very hard to gauge from kind of the seats we're sitting in in this moment. >> it's so hard to predict the future. jen psaki, good to have you. thank you so much for coming on the show. >> thank you. >> catch more of jen on msnbc every sunday at noon eastern, she's got the biggest stories she'll be breaking down the whole week. coming up next, what president biden apologized for today, and who he apologized to. plus, what prompted the hunter biden trial to end early today, and why the defense is now re-thinking its strategy. also, what latino voters say is driving their decision at the polls this november. we are back in 90 seconds. are . slowing my cancer from growing and living longer are two things i want from my metastatic breast cancer treatment. and with kisqali, i can have both.

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appearing together on camera this morning, president volodymyr zelenskyy said he had a lot more to share with president biden off camera at their joint news conference in paris. zelenskyy said there were battlefield updates. president biden needed to hear in private. >> i'm not going to walk away from you. i apologize for the weeks of not knowing what's going pan out in terms of funding and because we had trouble getting the bill to

pass. some of our very conservative members who were holding it up, but we got it done finally. >> joining us now, president and founder of the ur eurasia group and g zero media. thank you so much for being here. there's a lot going on. there's the president talking to zelenskyy, vladimir putin is pushing in on ukraine. there's also the eu elections. can you walk us through what you are watching in this moment? >> not as much from the eu. certainly the far right is going to outperform. he'll end up with more seats, but let's keep in mind that georgia maloney, the italian prime minister, is a strong supporter of the eu. pretty close with ursula vander line, who runs the european commission, and also a strong opponent of putin's russia, and wants to continue to provide

support for ukraine. i don't see any big change from the eu. also, i mean, the last few weeks have generally been good for nato on ukraine. in part, because there's coordination, in part because they're taking more risks. remember, you now have the u.s. and lots of other countries that are talking about allowing the ukraine to target military targets inside ukraine with nato weaponry. soon you're going to have trainers on the ground for aircraft and other nato equipment in ukraine itself, and you're going to have tens of billions of dollars of additional money given to ukraine that comes from the frozen, soon to be seized assets, of russia. that's a lot of coordination that's supporting the ukrainians that you didn't have a few weeks ago, katy, but all of that comes at a cost of potentially increasing the risks, certainly

increasing the direct engagement of nato in this war. >> i was going to ask about that, so nato and the u.s. are now allowing ukraine to hit military targets in russia, but they're on the border of ukraine. they're not allowing them to go much further. president zelenskyy seemed to want to update president biden on some of that. is he arguing for more approval, more access to go deeper into russia and potentially stronger weaponry? >> he certainly is. and he is in part because of course the russians are able to target ukraine across their territory. it's civilian targets that they're hitting. it's not just energy infrastructure which has been severely damaged in ukraine over the past weeks, and that's going to hurt them in the winter coming up. of course it's also terrorizing civilians because they're hitting targets in urban centers, irrespective of whether they are military or not and the ukrainians are saying if they can do that, we need to be able to hit russian military targets

across russia. they don't have the approval to do that with nato weaponry. what's going to happen going forward? why is nato doing things? i mean, katy, if you and i were having this conversation three years ago before the russian invasion, and we talked about the fact that there was a possible scenario where nato would be engaged against russia in a proxy war like this, and they'd be providing, you know, sort of the ability of the ukrainians to launch weapons directly into russia, that the americans, the europeans would all be in favor of that, you'd say not only is that crazy, you'd say it's incredibly dangerous, and yet that's where we are. how did we get here? and the answer is, number one, because russia's deterrence has not stood up very well. putin says a lot of things. he threatens the nordics, if you join nato, there's hell to pay. if you're poland, you keep providing weapons, we're going to hit you. they do it. he doesn't hit them. we're getting more comfortable

with. and of course every incremental step you make over a couple of years. i guess we can do that. let's take the next small step. it's not like one big jump. also, katy because the war has not done well over the past few months for ukraine, and biden apologized for some of that. some of that is american political dysfunction. some of that is a lack of ukrainian troops that are trained on the front lines. it's a small country. it's a democracy. russia can send a lot more troops against ukraine. and some of it is a lack of air defense. just literally the material doesn't exist unless you take it away from other countries. you put all of that together. that has made nato more willing, maybe more desperate, but certainly more willing to take risks on that here to fore would have been considered too dangerous. >> it would have been an insane conversation to have. you wouldn't want to trigger article v. let me ask you about the russian sending nuclear missile.

warships, nuclearsubs to cuba. should we be worried about that? >> we shouldn't like it. because of course it's not standard operating procedure for the russians over the last couple of decades. on the other hand, of course, the united states is by far the most powerful military in the world, and the u.s. sends its most advanced armaments on to military exercises right off the chinese border, right off the russian border. like it happens all the time. so, i mean, in that regard, the russians aren't doing anything that the americans don't do. and it would not be useful to panic over that. there is this sense that russia is increasingly taking acts that are themselves dangerous, and while they're not going to send tanks into poland anytime soon or the baltic states, you know, there have been cyber attacks by russia, by criminal actors in russia that putin's certainly aware of in allowing, for

example, against critical infrastructure, water facilities in the u.s., france, poland, we're also seeing a lot of arson in europe against eastern europe, against industrial facilities that look to have some of them at least russian finger prints on them. those are things that are dangerous, those were considered a red line by biden, back when he met with putin in geneva three years ago in the days of the russian cyber attacks on the colonial pipeline. there are already things that are happening that are much more dangerous between the united states, between nato, and the world's largest nuclear power, putin's russia. >> ian bremmer, thank you very much. i appreciate the context. much needed context in moments like these. >> sure. coming up, what happened to bring the hunter biden trial to an early end today? first, though what's driving some latino democrats to consider voting for donald trump in november. in entertainment

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we are being invaded. this is not people coming in. these are people coming in totally unchecked, unvetted, they're pouring into our country. >> former president donald trump is down playing his conviction in the new york hush money slash election interference trial, and leaning into border politics instead. in his first campaign event as a felon, he tried to convince an arizona crowd that president biden was heading a criminal experience to let migrants in. arguing without evidence that he is deliberately encouraging illegal crossings. joining us now, nbc news national correspondent david noriega. so, david, you did some reporting in arizona regarding how donald trump's message is being received, what did you find? >> reporter: yeah, katy, the main thing i have been finding is some of the republican talking points are resonating

with a surprising demographic, which is latino voters, specifically mexican-americans in the southwest. now, to be clear, democrats still have an advantage over republicans with latino voters when it comes to immigration. that gap is narrowing and in a heavily swing state like arizona, that could be consequential. >> the city of nogales, 95% of residents have hispanic roots, and republicans are looking to capitalize on antipathy. >> i am mexican, 100.but i am against all the illegals. >> i saw a lot of people wanting a handout instead of coming to work yr yvette sereno comes from a prominent democratic political family. now she's a maga republican, and the chairwoman of latinos for lake, which supports trump ally kari lake in her race for the senate. >> we're just seeing so many people from, like, 160 different

countries that don't even speak english. >> reporter: the republicans seem to be winning the messaging war on immigration, and are gaining traction with heat voters, many immigrants who were not part of the trump base. the question is whether they will reach enough of them to flip swing states like arizona back to trump. most latino voters in the southwest are mexican americans who have either lived in the borderlands for generations or were part of a wave of immigration that started in the 1980s. hundreds of thousands of arizonians live in a household where someone is undocumented. fear that trump will deport their loved ones still pushes many to biden's side. >> obviously compared to the trump administration, biden is better. i don't really live in that fear that i did when trump was in office. >> reporter: but this is a race with tight margins and any erosion in support in a swing state like arizona could be a real blow to president biden. in a county where 60% of voters are registered democrats, some prefer to hide their face when

confessing they're switching parties. have you always been a republican? >> no, i was the opposite, democrat. >> reporter: ralph preferred to keep his last name a secret. >> last time i voted for biden, i regret because he's changing everything. >> reporter: so you voted for biden but wish you hadn't? >> yeah, because he's failing in a lot of things. he's bringing people from all the countries around the wall. >> reporter: biden recently took executive action to restrict asylum for migrants at the border. it's too early to tell whether that would win over voters like retired chemical engineer, she's unhappy with biden's handling of the border but that doesn't translate to a vote for trump. do you know who you're going to vote for? >> it will not be trump, i can assure you for that. >> reporter: a number of liberal

advocates that i have spoken to who want to see biden reelected say that the administration has allowed republicans to define this issue. kind of following their lead on this issue rather than providing a coherent and compelling and different narrative of their own. katy. >> david noriega, that's some really interesting and enlightening reporting. thank you very much. and what mark meadows is doing in an arizona court today. that's coming up. first, though, did the defense call its first and last witness already? what happened in the wilmington, delaware, courtroom today when hunter biden's daughter took the stand. d. told him...at verizon, everyone can get that iphone 15 on them. (man) now that i got a huge storage and battery upgrade... i'm officially done switching. (vo) new and existing customers get iphone 15 on us when they trade in any iphone. verizon first, we did the impossible. then, you ate so many of the impossible that we completely ran out. and now... ♪♪

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the prosecution rested its case today. now, the hunter biden's defense team is in control. their key witness was naomi biden, hunter biden's daughter. she testified her dad seemed hopeful, her word, about his sobriety the same month he bought the gun at the center of this case. joining us now, nbc news correspondent ryan nobles. so she was the key witness, the defense didn't call anybody else today. what happened? >> reporter: well, it was a pretty powerful day in the courtroom, katy, and naomi biden had a very specific goal, and that goal was to try to convince the jury that in the month of october of 2018 that she viewed her father as on the road to recovery, that she had just met with him a couple of months before while he was in a

treatment facility in los angeles, that she felt good about the direction that he was headed. and that there at least would be a reasonable expectation or at least reasonable doubt for this jury to believe that when he checked the box on the form to buy the gun, he believed he was no longer an addict. i have to tell you, the prosecution did a pretty good job of throwing the narrative off. they asked naomi biden questions about the interactions she had with her father during that period of time, including a period of time where she was in new york with her now husband, peter neil, and they were swapping out vehicles and she was having a difficult time getting ahold of her father, texting her at 2:00 in the morning. she was texting back that she was frustrated that she couldn't see him and when the prosecution asked her very specific questions about what she thought about her father's disposition at that time, she really couldn't give them solid answers. you have to imagine that probably left a little bit of question in the jury's mind, if she truly felt her father was in

a period of recovery at that point or struggling with addiction. at times, katy, it was just difficult to watch. naomi biden when she left the stand, she was brushing away tears. we saw her father hunter biden cry and have to wipe away tears from his eyes as she initially took the stand, the first lady jill biden was in the courtroom today as well. she had just come back from france to be there for her granddaughter as she gave this testimony. it was absolutely a difficult day for this family. and the sum total of it all is it's not clear whether or not she delivered the message to the jury that the defense wanted them to hear. and that led the defense to change course. they initially talked about having james biden testify today. they told the judge that they decided not to have james biden, who's of course the brother of the president, the uncle of hunter biden who's close with hunter biden. they decided he wasn't going to testify today, and they're now regrouping and not going to call their next witness until monday morning and that opens up the

door, katy. will hunter biden testify in his own defense. it remains an open question on this friday afternoon, katy. >> ryan nobles, thank you very much. justice clarence thomas has admitted to accepting luxury trips from harlan crow. the trips were revealed by pro publica last year, but the first time justice thomas included them on his annual financial disclosure. he said his vacations had been omitted from his 2019 report and the in the supreme court, and beyonce tickets for justice ketanji brown jackson. justice jackson leads the pack with nearly $900,000 for her upcoming book. and coming up, we're going to explain or show you what it's

like to sketch a moment in history. the artist who sat in on donald trump's criminal trial and created these images joins us in just a moment. first, though what mark meadows faced in an arizona court today. . (aaron) i own a lot of businesses... so my tech and my network need to keep up. thank you verizon business. (kevin) now our businesses get fast and reliable internet from the same network that powers our phones. (aaron) so whatever's next... we're cooking with fire. (vo) switch to the partner businesses rely on. nothing dims my light like a migraine. with nurtec odt, i found relief. the only migraine medication that helps treat and prevent, all in one. to those with migraine, i see you. for the acute treatment of migraine with or without aura and the preventive treatment of episodic migraine in adults. don't take if allergic to nurtec odt. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. it's time we all shine. talk to a healthcare provider about nurtec odt from pfizer. every day, more dog people are deciding

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charges of conspiracy, fraud and forgery for his alleged role in that state's fake elector campaign. he and microman, you see him on the right, rudy giuliani, boris epshteyn and several other allies are set to be arraigned later this month. the republican national committee hired a prominent stop the stealer. former missouri republican party chair ed martin who attended trump's rally ahead of the january 6th insurrection is the guy. that was a day, by the way, january 6th, that he compared to mardi gras, tweeting it was filled with love, faith and joy. joining us now, nbc news justice reporter, ryan reilly. i will note the flag you saw in the picture is the one that justice alito was flying over his new jersey beach home. that flag right there. all right, ryan, talk to me about this man, ed martin, and what it means to have him run the platform committee? >> yeah, so he gave a speech,

actually, on the day before january 6th, right outside of the capitol, talking about how they really needed to continue this fight no matter what had happened the next day, and go on, basically, until their dying days, to fight for, you know, the conservative movement. he was at the donald trump speech before the january 6th attack over by the white house. he was in the vip section there, and then he made his way over to the capitol on january 6th itself. he arrived on the east side after the barriers had come down. that's sort of what you see in those photos that he had posted. that's sort of looking towards the supreme court, and he actually shows up on some of the surveillance footage that house republicans have released. so i think what's most interesting is he was this prom negligent supporter of the stop the steal movement. closely affiliated are individuals. moving around with michael flynn at previous stop the steal events, ali alexander he was affiliated with. in the after math, he joined an organization, is on the board of an organization lobbying for

january 6th defendants themselves. that photo you see there is him speaking at an event held by house republicans about january 6th. that was last june, june of 2023. and you see him also there next to jeffrey clark, who was of course the man who donald trump wanted to make attorney general in the lead up or right before january 6th, essentially, to use the justice department to overturn the election on his behalf. so in the aftermath now, we've seen this individual really be a strong supporter of january 6th, and spread conspiracy theories about january 6th itself using some of those videos, including a really bizarre one in which he focuses on a man called mr. coffee. his entire idea of this is that basically this person who he thinks was an fbi agent basically because he was walking in the general direction of an fbi field office and went to get coffee before he came back to the capitol on january 6th, katy. >> what does it say about the platform committee and where the rnc is going? >> i mean, it says that this is

a major part of the movement, right, you have to believe in the lies about the 2020 election in order to be a part of this because that's what all of this is based off of, the idea that january 6th isn't a big deal is tied into that. you have to believe the election was stolen. you have to believe that january 6th is being oversold, and democrats are making too big of a deal out of it in order to really get on board with the trump version of the rnc right now, katy. >> ryan reilly, thank you very much. coming up next, an artist who was in the courtroom to capture the very moment that donald trump became the first former president to become convicted of a felony. vancouvern and i write mystery novels. as i was writing, i found that i just wasn't sharp and that doesn't work when you're writing a mystery and i knew i needed to do something so i started taking prevagen. i realized that i was much more clear, much sharper. i was remembering the details that i was supposed to. prevagen keeps my brain working right.

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will be historic? our next guest has done just that, sketching a series of high-profile trials involving powerful men. as she describes it, defiant women. including last month's history-making criminal trial of former president donald trump. she sketched the courtroom, the judge, the lawyers, the witnesses and, most crucially, the defendant. but instead of keeping herself and her gaze out of it, as is standard in courtroom sketches, artist isabel browmen captured not just the players but the emotion of the room. in writing about what she does for "new york" magazine, she says my favorite image to capture is the neck of a defiant woman as she stares down a man who thinks he can destroy her. i have seen that strong neck hold up the chin of amber herd and the james doe of danny masterson. i drew the uncompromising neck of e.j. carroll and the

unapologetic stormy daniels. joining us now is artist isabel browerman. i'm obsessed with you. >> hi. >> i am. thank you for being here. my mom sent me these sketches. i hadn't seen them. i just thought, oh, my god, she captured what it's like to be in those rooms. i was in the courtroom with you for a little bit of the trial. it's so hard to describe what it's like in that room. you have an image of what it could possibly be like when you haven't been in there. you think of a pit bull lawyer and people on the stands scared and nervous and a judge who's being very hard lined. that's not what it was like in the courtroom at all. it was very subdued. but there was so much intensity. walk me through what you saw and what you felt and why all of that poured out of you and onto these canvass. >> i think there's a traditional aspect to the court that's really fun to play with, if you're free to do so. i sort of started to index these

traditional architectural elements like the flag, the judge, the microphone. when you become familiar with the players, and some are arriving in the middle of the trial, you start to see the images are the melding of these traditional symbols and then these players. and it's a question of, basically, how do these traditional symbols change depending on who's occupying the space? so, i'm just opening myself up to that story. >> how did you approach trying donald trump? what was he like through your eyes in that courtroom? >> i mean, he is somebody that has so much to draw on. so, to draw him is this incredibly complicated and sort of ever-changing challenge. within this courtroom, he was gagged. so, he had a different demeanor.

>> ej carroll, which you were at? . >> correct. as far as the verdict, he was incredibly still, which isn't something that's typical of donald trump, even in a courtroom. so, i am just being honest and open. i did as much preparation as someone can do when getting ready for one of the biggest verdicts in our nation's history. at the end of the day what my sort of practice brings to the tradition of court art is the unpredictability, which i think people are enjoying and the humanity that goes into the court. >> you also drew witnesses like stormy daniels and hope hicks and you write words to your pieces. what was it like drawing them and how do you choose the phrases that you've put into these canvass? i mean, i understand the guilty, guilty, guilty, obviously, but what else? >> i think sometimes when i'm working i'm really in a zone, but then i hear something and

i'm like, okay, this sort of can be used as material just like the images to sort of highlight irony. i'm thinking about themes in our nation is possibly themes that are a little more the story of the day, the gag order. so, i hear certain words and i think, this works and i sort of grab it. >> you also got the atmosphere outside, including the man that set himself on fire. >> yep. >> that must have been difficult. >> yes, that was really intense and it felt like there was something that needed to be recognized about the fact that that was how the trial began and it just -- it felt so heavy and -- yep. i wanted to make sure to do that justice, but i also brought that into the courtroom port rat of the day and sort of centered it, because that's what -- >> it was -- yeah, exactly. >> what i love about these. they remind me of the german expressionism movement, ernst

cushner and max brukman who beautifully and hauntingly captured what it was like in germany before the first world war and the second world war, there was all that trauma yet let's love for the now. you captured the moment of 2024. what it feels like to be an american right now. i think we'll look back on these images and be taken back to today just like the german expressionists bring us back to what it was like out there. before world war ii. isabel, thank you so much for joining us. there's going to be a show for this, right? >> we're figuring that out right now, but definitely. >> i hope i get invited. >> you're invited. and your mom. >> mom, she'll love that. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. that is something to do it for me today. "deadline white house" starts right now. ♪♪