coming up on another hour, why a convicted donald trump is looking more dangerous to the world at large. plus a jewish american army officer who resigned from the intelligence agency in protest of the u.s. role in the war in gaza joins me to tell his story. and with an unaccountable

u.s. supreme court spiraling into controversy overturning long precedent and rolling back rights, some are turning to state courts. why strong constitutions can save the every day rights being eroded by a lob sided u.s. supreme court. this and more on another hour of velshi starting now. good morning it's sunday june 9th. president biden is wrapping up his trip to france today where he spent much of the week recognizing d day. this morning he will be at a cemetery near paris and he and the first lady will fly back home. but in a few days he will head back to italy.

biden's upcoming trips to europe are valuable opportunities for him to highlight the importance of america's role in the world stage. he's cast his opponent as a strong man who will usher in an era of corruption in america and support such things abroad. trump's first term also saw the country shift toward a more isolationist stance which raised concerns among our partners that america might abandon its alliances. biden has taken the opposite approach. he's touted the importance of america, this has been one of its goals to france as well. biden called his country, called france quote our first friend. and during remarks at a d day ceremony on thursday he under scored importance of alliances and the need to defend

alliances. >> what the allies did together 80 years ago, far surpassed anything we could have done on our own. was a powerful illustration of our alliances, real alliances make us stronger, a lesson that i pray we americans never forget. democracy is never guaranteed. every generation must preserve it. defend it and fight for it. that's the test of the ages. >>s that the test -- that is the test of the ages. biden issued an apology to ukrainian president zelenskyy for the delay for material support for ukraine. an opposition that has been driven in no small part by donald trump. biden however would provide an unwaiverring support for

ukraine right from the start. in his apology he also announced $225 million in new military aid. the president has said that he views the war for an existential role. biden has done the same thing in asian in the region. his administration has forged stronger diplomatic ties with the philippines to ensuring the

to two. the head of the indopacifc command tasked with helping told the senate armed services committee in taiwan. if that tracks, then that will be a major conflict that the winner of this november's presidential election is going to have to confront. joining me now, bobby goesh and jane harmone from california is the chair of the national defense strategy commission and a distinguished fellow and president amerita of the wilson center. she's also the author of the book insanity defense. why our failure to secure defense makes us less safe. let me ask you about this situation. joe biden, while americans don't tend to vote on foreign american issues is wisely

reminding the world and our allies why these are alliances and why not being isolationists is uniquely important for america right now. >> biden traced a direct line to franklin roosevelt to ronald reagan to himself. there's been a continuity in both parties over 80 years. certainly applauding a victory we achieved with allies in 80 years ago at d day. but also being an interventionist country. being willingfully ignorant about history and why that matters is a wrong look. and it is very scary to think about how many countries all over the world and i travel extensively, are terrified about what the administration, the new administration if trump wins could bring.

>> bobby, the concept of interventionist america has historically been a bad thing. they say, america should mind their own business, they should stop trying to police the world. but as america stands back and stops trying to police the world, cars start crashing into each other. without using donald trump's name in normandy he made it very clear, democracy is a fight for the ages. that fight doesn't end. >> yes indeed. joe biden has had, has had to grapple with this problem right from the start of his presidency. this is a president who pulled the united states out of one of its previous interventions of afghanistan. and he has been reluctant to engage in other theaters where they could have been an opportunity for the u.s. so in

sudan for instance. something that someone that that audience is very, very alarmed about. he has had much more interventions. he is conveying both by his words and actions that the united states is willing to take an interventionists position but and there's a but. hep does not want to commit under his presidency will go in and do what is necessary and help its allies to do what is necessary. >> jane, you are a realist. let's talk about the actual dangers right. none of our allies are actually

worried because donald trump at one point said, if nato members don't spend as much on defenses if he wants to. he's going to let russia do in his words whatever the hell they want. the other day macron previewed china. i think because some nato countries are saying if we have to push the emergency button it may if donald trump becomes president that button may go right to china. it may be hey, come and help us. >> they, understand why they're worried. i don't think america will hesitate about china regardless of who the president is for a rare instance. both parties understand the pacing threat of china as we call it in our national defense strategy. but i want to say something about what bobby said first. which is it's not that america's intervened everywhere but are being hesitant in communicating that and our delay in funding full funding for ukraine has devastating consequences. it's not that we shouldn't have left afghanistan but the way we

left afghanistan has devastating consequences. what's important now and i think president biden is on this is to communicate certain sure fully funded, fully supported american leadership where we need to lead. with allies and partners. so you know, i think it is it is crunch time right now. and in asian, you mentioned this ali. many people think many people can be aggressive against taiwan soon. china is aggressive everywhere. the belt initiative in africa and south america is winning some hearts and minds. china is incurring the debts but they formed a global policy in recent years when we didn't. >> you were the editor in chief of a major indian newspaper and what happened in the indian elections shocked me.

it seemed like a foregone conclusion that nodi who has been pushing toward a more and more nationalists some zenophobic was going to win. he didn't overwhelmingly win the election. talk to me about how that relates to how american may be thinking about its own democracy and a candidate who is pushing toward authoritytism. >> it shows that voters when it comes to making this very, very crucial choice of democracy rather than liberalism. we can hope that something similar happens here. this was, its important to remind ourselves this was to a substantial degree a referendum on modi's rule. this is not so much a vote for the other side as much a vote against him. and that might also be something we can take heart

from that the liberal forces and parties in this side should be concerned about. but i wouldn't push the perils too far. india has had an indian government for two terms. maybe much weaker. india has had a long period in which to experience that kind of government has had a chance to weigh that message that modi sends out of hatred and bigotry against their real lived experience. and they've made a choice after that experience. whether sufficient numbers of americans have had that chance to carefully weigh the two options that we are going to be presented in the election this fall. is something i'm not as confident about. i think this country is far more polarized right now and in

the next few months we'll see that polarization weaken. >> it's always a pleasure to have you both. former california congresswoman is a fellow at the wilson center and chair of the national defense strategy commission. she's also the author of insanity defense. why our failure to confront hard national security problems makes us less safe. still ahead on velshi, with the u.s. supreme court buckling under ethics scandals and an out of control conservative supermajority. they're turning to a new strategy to protect the very same rights that were eroded by the roberts court. while a defense intelligence official with a 13 year military career is resigning in protest.

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in gaza is now nearing 300. israeli forces rescued four hostages taken by hamas on october 7th but killed at least 274 palestinians and injured more than 400 according to the ministry of health in gaza. images from the scene are extremely hard to watch. i must warn you what you're about to see is disturbing after israel's air and ground assault, victims were taken the two hospitals where overwhelmed medical star can be seen dealing with the carnage. civilians gathered on the street mourning the unrecognizable dead. there's even more footage on the bodies. the limbs of formerly wounded palestinians were strewn on the street but it's too horrific to bring to you in good conscious. the united states provided intelligence report in support of israel's operation to rescue the hostages yesterday. that's according to a u.s.

speurbl -- issue in the matter. we're watching for a potential shake up in the government as well. benny gantz is expected to make an announcement in the next hour or so. it's believed he will resign from the war cabinet over benjamin netanyahu's handling of the war. the war cabinet is not the same as the government. but this is going to be a blow of some sort to benjamin netanyahu. joining me now is ronan bergman author of the important book rise and kill first. the secret history of israel's targeted assassinations. ronan this is a complicated one. because on some levels, there's a way of looking at yesterday and the release of the rescue of these four hostages as one of the best days that netanyahu has had since october 7th. benny gantz was in fact, supposed to leave the government yesterday. he postponed that. i don't know if you know whether he's actually leaving today but give me a sense of

where the israeli government is. where the israeli people are in this day, the day after this dramatic hostage rescue. >> so yesterday when the news broke out in israel there was a wave of happiness. after many many days that this war brought no good news. then of course taking into account the death toll in gaza and the, that cost the life of many palestinians but israel cheered for the release of those hostages. one of them gobani became very famous, it is a picture taken brutally to hamas captivity in the heart of israelis. but at the end of the day, when israelis woke up this morning,

i think they realized that this is a very brazen, heroic whatever metaphors and tactics that were tied to it. but still it's a tactical success. it brought four hostages out of the close to 100 that israeli living hostages according to the israeli updates. and all the miseries and the problems of the country stay the same. it did not change anything. i think israeli officials are very much concerned that the netanyahu government by their huge success which is basically a military and intelligence success, some of it achieved with intelligence obtained by the u.s. and britain that they will use this in order to justify why not going to a deal

as if they can release all the hostages with this kind of rate. this is the reason why the idea spokesperson yesterday when speaking to journalists said we will not be able to release all the hostages. i think what one of them said, we will not be able to release most of the hostages if not all of those remaining hostages that hamas is going to take severe actions for what i assume hamas leadingship rinks. the idf changed its position and now is publicly very clearly calling for a deal. a deal rather than the continuation of the war. a deal with total with israeli forces from gaza. and now they are saying it publicly. >> is it your view in the next hour and a half when we hear from benny gantz if he doesn't cancel it that he is leaving

the war cabinet. what does that mean? that doesn't mean the falling of the cabinet because he's not a member of the coalition government he is just joined in this war cabinet. what's the distinction. >> netanyahu has a 64 seats coalition, majority out of the 120. even without, so he doesn't need it for the stability of the coalition. what he does, he used in a way, he used gantz as sort of a shelter, a shield because once gantz and the other former chief of staff are part of the war cabinet, that really makes the decisions, they are agreeing to everything that this government is doing. and they have gave a sense of some kind of reasonable decision making process. though gantz as he said himself

was deprived. the government will deprive netanyahu from any kind of any remain of central school of thought in his government. he will be left only with the extreme ultra right, the extreme religious orthodox. and i think that this will, according to many political analysts, will bring the end of this government much much closer. gantz they say in time will regret, the fact that he did not resign. i don't know if he's going to do this today, as you said. he delayed once many times. he wants to stay in the government some people say, but i'm sure that in retrospect, gantz will regret not doing it many many months ago. >> it is 8:00 p.m.

israel time. we're expecting an announcement from gantz. thank you he's the author of the book rise and kill first. the secret history of israel's targeted assassinations. an army officer from the intelligence. he will tell us why he resigned in protest. otezla is the #1 prescribed pill to treat plaque psoriasis. ned? otezla can help you get clearer skin, and reduce itching and flaking. with no routine blood tests required. doctors have been prescribing otezla for over a decade. otezla is also approved to treat psoriatic arthritis. don't use otezla if you're allergic to it. serious allergic reactions can happen. otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. some people taking otezla had depression, suicidal thoughts, or weight loss. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur.

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u.s. army major harrison mann was in a 30 year career working in the bureau of the defense intelligence agency when he decided he had had enough. he had seen enough. as israel's large scale military ramped up on the wake of october 7th and his workplace became more and more focused on the war, mann said it was time to separate his every day work with the news coming out of gaza he was seeing on the news.

mann who is jewish became the first member of the army to resign in protest of america's role in the war in gaza. his resignation became effective this last month. he wrote that the u.s. government's quote unqualified support of israel has quote enabled and empowered the killing and starvation of tens of thousands of innocent palestinians, unquote. he went on to say each of us signed up to serve knowing we might have to support policies we weren't fully convinced of. however at some point it became difficult to defend the outcomes of this particular policy. at some point whatever the justification, you're either advancing a policy that enables the mass starvation of children or you're not, end quote. joining me now is major harrison himself. director for the defense intelligence agency. major thank you for joining us. we appreciate your time. i want to ask you, and i tweeted out that you were going to be on the show, someone said, why didn't he just talk

to the president first. i'm assuming it's as hard for you to just talk to the president as it is for me just to talk to the president. what is the process when somebody like you who is serving in the military who finds that they are a conciencious objector of what's going on. >> first i would like to clarify, i'm not a conciencious objector so that means you object to all war in all of its forms but i did object to the way this war was being conducted and way by which the department of defense and my own office were supporting the military as they conducted this war. so the options for someone in my position especially in the uniformed military are limited. you can kind of voice your concerns but no one is under any obligation to do anything about them. or you can resign. i chose to do the latter. i did not feel comfortable

talking about you know how i felt about the war. why i was in the office, as i wrote i didn't know that anybody else agreed with me. i later discovered that many people did but i didn't think that was something i could talk about. and additionally, while i was resigning i was also aware of higher level discussions in the intel defense war about you know how seriously we were going to take legal concerns about our contribution to the israeli campaign and those did not give me confidence that had i chosen to try voicing my concerns and sending those up the chain of command that i would have been listened to in a serious way. >> major, you're jewish, your grandparents escaped anti semitism in eastern europe where in a world of rising anti semitism. i spoke to lyndsey call who

resigned from the interior department for similar reasons. i want to play for you of what she said how her jewish background played into her decision. >> i don't want to leave my jewishness at the door when it comes to israel. it goes against everything to starve them, to make people refugees. >> i want to ask you the same question. did you have to confront that? did you have to deal with that. do people ask you about that? >> yeah, i mean that understanding my families history and the history of a lot of jews who came from europe made this a really easy decision and made the moral logic really hard to avoid. because you know, i was raised with my family history with understanding that the jews in europe suffered really incredible mistreatment and crimes over hundreds of years and you know from a young age, you understand that's wrong.

what happened to the jews in europe in russia, was wrong. and so when i saw what was happening to the palestinians now, it was pretty easy to make that connection. and it didn't take me a long time to understand that that was wrong too. >> how do these resignations, there are various protests in the country. there's various reservations, there's votes that go on. we saw in michigan and wisconsin when people went out to vote and told you know, joe biden i'm in a democratic primary. i'm supporting the democrats, i'm coming out and doing my job but i'm protesting your policies in gaza. how do these small acts all add up? do you think they make a difference? do you think the government hears it. do you think the administration hears about it and perhaps recalibrates their strategy. >> i know that they matter.

i don't know what the administration sees it. but i know there's other people that also think they're involved in something wrong and looking for a way out. it matters to me in making this decision, i think when i started my process josh paul was the first to resign. and then over the coming months more people resigned so that gave me confidence that what i was doing was the right thing and at very least would bring some attention to this issue. i can say you know my resignation and the way i communicated personally had an impact on my workplace at d.i. a. we went from an environment where we couldn't talk about how they were conducting the war. to, i know now that folks are now openly talking about this in a way they were not before. so i consider that progress at the very least.

both in terms of you know our national security work force feeling comfortable. kind of presume their moral instincts more. and it also makes them more effective you know analysts. and intelligence producers. if they do not feel like any topics are off limit. and they don't feel like their speech is going to be stifled. the hardest part of the past six months was feeling totally alone. like i was the only one disturbed by the footage from gaza. i felt i was living in an alternate universe. i now know the obvious, if i was afraid to voice my concerns, you were too. harrison mann thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> still ahead, if you're worried about the supreme court preserving your right it might be time to put your trust in your state courts. i'll explain. aaaaaaaaash.

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>> have you been looking for your next beach read, look no further. go to the velshi banned book club, you won't be able to put these town. dragon wings, heavy, catch 22 and tango makes three. the poet x by elizabeth acevedo, the miseducation of cameron post, and far from the tree. pick up your copies wherever books are sold and get reading. then send your reaction to velshi.com. a book club is nothing without you. it's members. still ahead with the supreme court driven by a conservative supermajority, progressive activists are looking for creative strategies to preserve the personal and civil rights that are being eroded by the roberts court.

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brennan urged state courts to step in and fill the gap. state courts cannot rest when they have afforded the citizens the full protection of the state constitutions. state constitutions are a font of the liberties. their protections of federal law. it was a foundation upon which rights and protections could always be expanded by state courts. it was a ground breaking idea at the time. leading to a legal movement dubbed the new judicial federalism which relied on state constitutions rather than the u.s. constitution to widen the scope of rights. the journalist press noted this month in the new yorker that in the decade following justin brennan's appeal, states issued over 200 rulings that expanded individual rights. in today's day and age the need for state courts to step up once again has never been more urgent. the threat to our democratic

foundation looms large as an extremist fringe now in charge of a political party exposes its radical agenda on our institutions. and nowhere is this more evident than at the united states supreme court. from the overturning of roev. wade to under mining of the protection agency. federal relations are designed to protect american citizens. the inability of a ham strung congress to hold the supreme court accountable for a string of ethics violations and forum shopping under scores this urgency. the battle to save our democracy will be waged in state courtrooms. americans aren't really accustomed to thinking of state constitutions as an additional check on our system of government but throughout our country's history, there's been this tug of war between state and federal powers with one stepping up when the other falls short. americans forget that state courts have at times being key

drivers of social change and progress in america for example, same-sex couples began marrying in massachusetts state courts in 2004. more than a decade before the federal salespeople court -- federal supreme court. you often hear about red states striking down abortion states. four states amended their state constitution to include that right. 14 states are holding similar referendums this upcoming november meanwhile 11 states recognize a right to an abortion independent of the u.s. constitution. on the issue of voting rights where the supreme court has notoriusly rolled back protections the montana supreme court this year struck down voter restrictions that voters said discriminated against native american communities. state courts are also taking the lead in the fight against climate change. hawaii recently affirmed a fundamental right to a clean

and healthy environment. something that federal courts have denied exist. in his opinion, the hawaii supreme court justice micah wilson did not mince words criticizing courts for their responsibility. the hawaii supreme court does not choose to throw up our hands. the hawaii supreme court has recognized the constitutional right to a life sustaining climate. the american people recently witnessed the power of state laws in action with the new york hush money cover up case. donald trump was found guilty on 34 counts making him the first american president ever to be convicted of a crime. for years, federal mechanisms failed one after the other to hold trump accountable from two failed impeachment trials to the conservative supreme court interfering in his interference trial. trump always managed to wiggle his way out. not this time, my next guest

current roosevelt writes. our hallowed supreme court, our sacred constitution, none of these things protected us from trump. in the whole they enabled him. in the end, roosevelt arguments it was state laws that finally caught up to a disgraced expresident. the reason, trump was finally held accountable was not that he ran a foul of special rules that govern the highest reaches of our political system, it was the 12 ordinary americans in an unglamorous trial courtroom ruled that he had broken the laws that everyone else has to follow. state law that applies equally to all did what the constitution could not. we talk about this after a quick break. including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration, urinary tract, or genital yeast infections, and low blood sugar.

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before the break we talked about how state courts are emerging as key defenders of democracy in the face of a mostly conservative u.s. supreme court. for more on this i'm joined by kermit roosevelt the iii member of the presidential commission on the supreme court. he's also the award winning author of the nation that never was. a ground breaking reinterpretation of american of the american story. good to see you begin. thank you for being with us. first of all i want to clarify.

we're going to talk about examples where state courts can step in, fill gaps and do things that federal institutions are not doing. there are also enough examples of state courts doing the opposite. so this is not a universal. the power they have is universal. the good that they do is not. >> oh absolutely. so the thing about states and state courts is, there's divergence. with the national government you have one supreme court at the top. you have one law making body and if something goes wrong there you can't fix it. the thing about the states is you have 50. so something can go wrong in some states. they can go down the wrong path but then there are other states that you can look to to try to set things right. >> let's talk about this current right way shift. it's already happened on the supreme court. and compare that to the period during which justice brennan issued this call to action. what's different and what's similar and how might it work? >> well the court has moved to the right but it's moved much farther. so i would say, this is just

about as extreme right wing a court as we've ever had. you can look back to the brennan era, we have no liberals like brennan. there's no one like thurgood marshall on the court. some of the conservatives have been replaced by even more conservative people. instead of sandra day o'conner who would vote to uphold the right to abortion, we have sam alito. then some of the conservatives were replaced by conservatives. it's a huge right ward shift. >> let's talk about how conservatives have historically done a better job of leveraging state courts. why is that? is that a mechanism or is that just that conservatives sort of figured this out before progressives did? >> well conservatives figured it out first sort of because they had to. so one of the things that i say

about federalism, federalism is for losers because if you lose at the federal level you can keep on fighting in the states. that's what happened during the civil rights movement. there was resistance, massive resistance at the state level. and i think that experience sort of soured progressives on state authority because they associated it with the resistance to civil rights and they thought about the national government as the good guys and the source of the solution. but you know sometimes you lose the national government, even if you're a majority of the population and that's what's happened now. so our constitution has allowed a minority to seize power at the federal level. and i think now we need to think more about resistance at the state level. >> so you do study how the actual supreme court can be reformed and you thought about that. there's even legislation that has just been introduced now because it's become so egregious what's become to the supreme court. what is your solution to the

americans who have become frustrated. they really wanted to trust these institutions, they really wanted to trust the supreme court. but they've seen enough to say, my trust is not there. is there some things you rely on the state for and some things you rely on the federal government for? >> we can change the supreme court. you won't have the problem of this supremist court imposing its views on everyone else. you have to get that through congress, you have to have the supreme court not strike it down which they might very well. they might say you need an amendment to do this. we have to think about the ways we can use state laws and state institutions to advance state law. that's where the supreme court, the federal supreme court is

really falling down on the job. >> and let's use one of those examples, and that is the case that you referred to. the donald trump was just convicted in. is that, is that an artifact of something different in state law or is that a case that actually happened. that it got to court first where these federal cases are being subject to endless delays? is there something about that being heard in a state court that made it different? >> there are a couple of things, you don't have the american federal court interfering. if you look at the january 6th case the supreme court is helping delay it. the decision ended up being in the hands of ordinary americans. 12 jurors, not career politicians in the senate as the impeachment was. not nine justices on the supreme court, many of whom owe

their appointment to donald trump. so it's a way of restoring power to ordinary americans and taking it away from the political class that has really been sort of corrupted by partisanship. >> you are a member of this presidential commission on the supreme court, that was established by joe biden to explore supreme court reforms. what's doable? you mentioned that obviously congress would have to be on board and that's a likelihood. congress couldn't agree that today is a saturday if we needed them to. what's possible? >> i think the term limits are possible. honestly i think a lot of the stuff about ethics codes is a bit of a distraction. the problem is not so much that the justices are behaving unethically i think a lot of them are i think. it's that they're behaving consistently with their ideology and they were picked for fact that they have extreme ideologists but they were picked by a minority of the

american people. and a party that is picked by the minority of the american people should not control the courts for the next generation but that's where we are if we don't change it. >> he's the author of the nation that never was, a ground breaking reinterpretation of the american story. before i have go i want to let folks know, that in the coming weeks i'll be in a several cities in canada to discuss my book. i'll be in toronto on monday june 24th in conversation with peter mansbridge. i'll be in vancouver on thursday june 27th in conversation with ian hannah. i hope i see you in person. nna i hope i see you in person.