about does it for me. thank you for watching. i will see you back here next weekend at 5 p.m. eastern. right now, it is the sunday show jonathan. >> in defense of democracy, president biden is just about

an hour from landing in philadelphia tonight after playing to fall at a cemetery in france which donald trump reportedly wants said was filled with losers and suckers. gerry connolly of the affairs committee and historian barbara f walter join me to discuss this study in contrast on implications for global stability. inside the biden camp lane with his re-election effort in full swing in the first presidential nabet debate a few weeks away. campaign senior advisor and senior spokesperson is here to talk about the biden-harris game plan ahead. my sendoff panel, former congressman and donna edwards have a punchbowl news will weigh in on everything from donald trump's probation interview tomorrow to notable comments on the other sunday shows. and you know we are going to discuss this comment from rudy giuliani about funding lewis.

>> i've got two prosecutors. i am jonathan capehart. this is "the sunday show." >> resident biden is flying back from france at this hour after a five day trip highlighting america's fight for freedom and democracy abroad. biden began his visit with the speech honoring the soldiers who stormed the beaches at normandy and defeated fascism. earlier today, the president stopped by the world war i cemetery outside paris where he praised the nato alliance that has secured peace for the past eight decades. >> i acknowledge that the best way to avoid these battles in the future is to stay strong with our allies.

do not break, do not break. >> 80 years of relative peace especially in europe is a historical aberration. we have been able to maintain peace because of institutions like nato area created within a sustained bite leadership from the united states from residents of both parties. we cannot take this piece or world order for granted and many fear it is under threat right now. biden's days long tribute to democracy was also eight peer review to donald trump and selfishness he has shown on the world stage. in 2018, trump them infamously refused to enter the cemetery where. the atlantic reported then "trump rejected the idea of the visit because he feared his hair would become disheveled in the rain, and because he did not believe it important to honor american war debt." trump said, and why should i go

to the cemetery? it is filled with losers. john kelly, a retired four start marine general also confirmed that conversation to cnn but trump denies it ever happened, calling the story "made up" at a rally in las vegas today. he also complemented viktor orban and shared his own dark vision of the world order. >> the world is going to look up to us with respect. they are not going to be laughing at us. right now, they are laughing at us. you are closer right now to world war 3 than you have ever been and this is no longer army tanks going back and forth shooting world war two. these are nuclear weapons and the power of which has never been seen before. >> trumps about nuclear war comes less than 24 hours before he will be sitting down with a probation officer in new york.

nbc news is exclusively reporting that trump will be interviewed tomorrow as part of the presentencing requirements for his criminal conviction. as biden prepares for a g7 summit in italy this week, trump will be focused on securing his own freedom because as dana writes in the washington post today, trump is serving the highest cause himself. joining me now is democratic congress meant gerry connolly of virginia. he is a member of the foreign affairs committee and a senior member of the house oversight committee. congressman connolly, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. let's start with the breaking news out of israel where achy ryle rival of benjamin netanyahu. benny gantz just resigned from the war cabinet. what could this mean for cease- fire negotiations? >> i hope it puts more pressure on benjamin netanyahu to agree to his own government's proposal for cease-fire agreement that president biden has been.

i think the loss of benny gantz really a time where he desperately needs it but i do think it's going to put, and i hope it does, political pressure on benjamin netanyahu to end the fighting and the killing and come to an agreement so hostages can be released and civilians can try to restore their lives. >> hundreds of palestinians were killed in the raid that rescued the four israeli hostages yesterday. how might that impact these fire negotiations? >> i think the initial response is joint celebration. at the release of four hostages, who have been there for eight months. that is to be celebrated. but the loss of life occurred in doing that is something that is horrifying and i would hope that the israeli military and the israeli government take a moment of reflection about the high cost of their operations

generally in gaza. >> one more question before we turn to domestic issues, there is also talk of opening up another front in the north to deal with lebanon. would that be a wise thing for israel to do? >> i am not a military adviser but i think israel has his hands full with the operations of god and the opposition to open up a third front on the lebanese border would the military in ways with the war of 1973. i hope it can be avoided. >> let's turn our attention statewide. reports on how terrified europe is about the second trump presidency. writing "one word came up again and again when i asked european officials about

the stakes of the american election: existential." here's what senator tom cotton had to say about ending the current war on european soil in ukraine. watch this. >> the way to have peace in europe and for that matter, peace and stability around the world is to remove joe biden from the white house on election day this year and return donald trump. >> congressman, why shouldn't europeans be afraid with comments like that? >> they should be and they are. i have been very involved in nato, the elementary assembly for the last decade plus, and i can tell you i have never seen europeans as anxious about american politics as they are right now. everything is at stake. as you indicated in your opening, nato has ironically worked. it has kept the peace for most of 80 years. it is the one thing will respect. because of article 5 that has

we mean it. and he has respected that. he has respected nothing else but that. to actually call into question the viability and utility and advocacy of nato when it's working and we've got a war going on is really reckless. i do nothing any european was going to turn tom cotton for advice as we go forward. article 5 has been invoked only once in nato's history. meanwhile, far right parties significant games in parliament for the elections today. so much so that french president matt cronk announced today that he would the nations parliament and call for snap elections and this is significant because his current term does not end until 2027. are the far right forces gaining record support in europe as much a threat as

trump 2.0 in washington. >> i think there's a lot of variety among generically what is called the right in europe. obviously, it is alarming to see these kinds of far right parties making gains near european elections. they are sometimes the second boat. they might not vote for the people that govern their country but it's a free book to someone. it is a way of expressing dissatisfaction the status quo. obviously, it reflects deep concern about the immigration issue in europe and we have to take note of that and respect that is about an issue going forward. >> up an issue in europe but americans should look at what is happening in europe. american officials look at what is happening in europe and take heed.

yes. >> we cannot afford to ignore what is happening in europe. it does not necessarily mean but ethically that will happen here but it does not mean nothing. it is resonating with voters and we got a cognizance of that. >> gerry connolly of virginia, member of the foreign affairs committee and senior member of the oversight committee, as always, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. joining me now, barbara f walter, the professor of international relations at the university of california san diego. she is the author of how civil wars start and how to stop them. barbara, thank you very much for coming back to "the sunday show." is it to me or does it feel to you that trump's rhetoric has kicked into a whole new gear and how significant is it that his high-ranking followers are openly calling for the prosecution of trump's enemies? >> the evidence is very clear. if you go back and you listen to tapes and watch videos of

trump, he's a very different person today. what he is saying is different than in 2016. he is much more aggressive. he is using much more negative hate with threatening language. he is a bully and steroids today. one of the things we also know from lots of research is the rhetoric matters. especially violent rhetoric. if you have leaders who begin to normalize the idea that violence is legitimate, their supporters believe it and some of them actually follow through with it so it's not agnostic, it's not a game. this is not something that has no repercussions. if you have somebody like trump who so many people idolize and who so many people believe is their hero and is going to save them. he is telling them that the

only way to save america is through violence. the only way that they will not be in danger is if they take back their country. they are going to believe him. >> the washington post is a front-page story. the former trump director who wrote in an essay quote we are living in a post-constitutional time. according to the post, "he has helped craft proposals for donald trump to deploy the military to quash civil unrest, sees more control over the justice department, and assert the power to withhold congressional appropriations. that is just on trump's first day back in office." barbara, why should americans be very concerned about this? >> again, history tells us a lot. it used to be that the way that came to power in democracies was through military. they got the military to help

them. that is not the case in the 21st century. today, the most likely way that can take control of democracy is through legal means. they play the democratic game. they get elected. they build a base. they tell people that they're going to save them from all these bad things that could happen to them. they convince them that democracy is maybe not the best system. it is not efficient, effective. and they slowly withdraw the guardrails of democracy. one of the reasons why trump is so in awe of viktor orban, the leader of hungry is that he is really, the very first 21st- century leader to do this and he did it masterfully. it's almost as if he wrote the book on it. trump has met with him a number of times and i suspect that one of the things that they are talking about is how we can do this in the united states.

we know that organizations like the heritage foundation have crafted very lengthy manuals for how the republicans can do this in 2024 if trump wins. >> right. it's called project 2025. barbara f walter, as always, thank you very much for coming to the sunday show. >> it is my pleasure, thank you. coming up, the view from inside president biden's re- election campaign. adrian, senior advisor and senior spokesperson for the biden-harris campaign joins me in the studio to talk about their strategy on issues like border security, the economy, and the war in gaza. how performers are helping to lead the charge against the attacks on the lgbtq+ community. you are watching "the sunday show" on msnbc . .

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next hour. following his five-day state visit to france. where he emphasized the importance of defending democracy which is also essential theme of his re- election bid. president biden's return home means a return to the campaign trail and the issue is top of mind for voters this november. from the a common in economy to the humanitarian crisis in gaza. then there is the conundrum that is his opponent, donald trump. joining me is adrian elrod, senior advisor and senior spokesperson for the biden- harris campaign. adrian, welcome to the sunday show. >> thank you, jonathan. >> i want to start with this. the campaign is launched a new ad that focuses on defending american democracy. >> joe biden has made defending our basic freedoms the cause of his presidency and he is running for re-election to finish the job. to protect the freedom freedom

under joe biden, the son will not set on. american democracy will not break. >> adrian, this message worked really well during the 2022 midterms. do you expect it to have the same impact in november when it is a presidential election year? >> i think so. part of what we wanted to really emphasize in that ad is under president biden, you have the freedom to live under a democracy. you have the freedom to make your own economic decisions. before, obviously trump put supreme court justices on the court. women had the freedom to make our own reproductive health decisions. that freedom was taken away solely because of donald trump. part of what that ad is doing is connecting all the dots. we currently have the freedom to live under a democracy but donald trump steps back in the white house, democracy will be at risk and i think when you saw president biden, who had an incredible week overseas honoring our fallen, honoring

the 80th anniversary, really reinforcing how important democracy is. 80 years ago, americans and our allies fought to protect democracy and spread democracy across the world. none democracy is at risk more than it has in the last 80 years. weeding all these things together, talking about the freedoms that we have. the freedoms that we will not have it president trump wins this election. president biden values and we will continue to hear the message throughout the next five months. >> why the president was in france yesterday, thousands of pro-palestinian protesters rallied outside the white house urging the president to halt military aid to israel and calling for a cease-fire in gaza. how are these persistent protests weighing on the campaign? >> first of all, president biden, unlike president trump supports the freedom of speech and the freedom of expression. these protesters are exercising their rights and that is their right to do. that being said, we certainly

understand it is a challenge. president biden is certainly fighting for every vote. he is not taking anything for granted. look. this is the freedom that people have going back to the message of freedom. they have the right to protest, they have the right to speak their mind. he's not to take anything for granted and i think it's also important to keep in mind, jonathan during these challenging times on the foreign policy, the global front, can you imagine having donald trump back in the white house trying to manage all of this? president biden is a seasoned foreign-policy pro. he served as the chair on the committee for a long time. he has these relationships with world leaders that go very, very deep. we're going to be reinforcing the fact that that is an important attribute that the president has. at the same time, were to be working hard for every vote. >> one thing that can make a little problematic is that the president's new executive action on the border was temporarily halting asylum requests once the average number of daily encounters tops

2500 points of entry. strong criticism from all quarters. on both sides of the aisle. are you afraid of alienating progressive voters who argue that this policy is too harsh? >> no. here's the bottom line. congress did not act. because their supreme leader, donald trump did not allow them to. said we will not pass the most historic bipartisan bill that is come forward in congress for 10 years because they did not want joe biden, president biden to have a win. they do not want him to have a political win. president biden has to use every lever that he can in the white house to do something about the border.. americans know democrats and republicans understand that there is a crisis at the border and it has to get solved. if congress is not going to act and block progress on this, especially the most progress that we could've had over a decade and president biden is going to use every lever at his disposal and try to make some change. this is really important

executive action last week. it's something that has to take place and unfortunate that congress will not act. hopefully they still will. there is time to come to the table and that is where we are. >> i got to get you on. two questions because we are running out of time. great economic news for the country but for the president, 272,000 new jobs created. this is more than economists expected. employment remains below 4%. but biden supporters, some of them are complaining that they are not hearing about any of this. watch this. >> you are not the first person who is a biden supporter that is told me that the president is not necessarily communicating is a compliment. >> he is not. >> talk to me about that. why do you think he is not doing that? >> needs to do better at putting in people's face that i accomplish this. i did this. the benefits that you have now are because of me and my administration.

that needs to be clear because i do not think many people do you know what he is actually gotten done. >> so, adrian, the question is this. is it that you are not communicating or you are not raking through when you do communicate and if it is the latter, how are you going to break there? >> can we get her out here. she did a really great job. but, jonathan, i do not have to tell you this. you are in this. it's really hard to break through in a cycle which is why we are using surrogates, various platforms. we are taking our message to the voters. were going on our phones, we have a very aggressive digital strategy. at the same time, as everything that president biden has accomplished, record unemployment. 15 million jobs created under his presidency. the list goes on and on. we understand that americans are still hurting. prices are still too high. which is why he is really making the case, jonathan. the second charm you can continue to work hard to lower

prices to lower cost and do everything he can to help the american people, on my donald trump who has no economic plan and is actually cheering from the size when inflation numbers go up. >> last question, the first presidential debate is in three weeks. june 27. i'm not convinced trump is going to show up. are you already planning for that possibility? >> we are showing up. i cannot speak for what he's going to do that president biden is showing up. he is really looking forward to the conversation. he's got a lot of things to talk to donald trump about and he is really looking forward to having a major platform to tell the american people what he stands for and what is at stake in his election. >> senior advisor and senior spokesperson for the biden- harris re-election campaign, thank you very much. >> thanks. coming up, donald trump's first official rally is since his criminal conviction just one day before his first meeting with the new york probation officer. my panel all in studio with meat will weigh in on that and a lot more, next on "the sunday

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tomorrow, another first for donald trump. a disgraced former president is scheduled for a virtual interview with a new york probation officer. the interview is required as part of trumps presentencing report after being found guilty on all 34 counts in his manhattan criminal trial. today, trump was in las vegas for his first official rally since his conviction. once again, the perpetually aggrieved queens born builder played the victim and projectionist as he falsely accused the biden administration of doing things we all know he is just itching to do because another chance in the white house. >> the only way he can get elected is to cheat but this time, they are using weaponization of department of justice to go and see the local d.a.s. going to see the attorney general's to cheat.

>> surround me now, former republican congressman joe walsh from m illinois. no independent director of the social contract. from a congresswoman donna edwards of maryland and an msnbc political analyst. andrew, senior congressional reporter at punch bowl. thank you very much for coming back to the sunday show. okay. to lead you out of this right now. joe and donna, your reaction to donald trump saying the only way he can get elected is to cheat. he is saying that about biden. >> i love to be with you on this set on this show. jonathan, this is scary. this is dangerous and i do not want to smile and i don't want to laugh about it. there was an insurrection 3 1/2 years ago that he incited and he is doing the same thing this year. he is lying to his voters and jonathan, he wants there to be violence again if he loses. we cannot normalize this.

>> i'm assuming you agree. >> i agree with what joe has said here. i think the scary part about this is that it's not only donald trump that it's all his surrogates who are echoing the same about the election and i think while it could be fun to laugh and smile about this, this is really serious and could lead to real violence again. >> i want to show what it congresswoman had to say on fox news about. she said the trial was rigged. >> this is shredding our democracy, the mainstream media and democrats accuse the right but it's really democrats who are attacking our democracy. the american people know that this was rigged from the start and it is in a front to us. president trump is correct that the real verdict will be rendered this november on election day when president trump wins overwhelmingly.

>> i played that because everyone is talking about the four men who are potentially on donald trump's shortlist but to my mind, who we just saw, that, to my mind is who i think donald trump is going to pick. does that hold any water in what you are hearing around the capital? >> yeah. i was just going to say. you can see many of these potential running mates for donald trump going on tv rushing to defend them in various cases and advancing some of the same arguments. i agree with you that she is a top contender. on capitol hill, the conversation usually centers around people like senator tim scott or senator senator j.d. vance. some conversations involve marco rubio as well. the question of him having florida residency and trump having florida residency. this rule where the top of the ticket and the vice

presidential nominee cannot be from the same state, technically so how do you address that? he is in the conversation. look. stefanik is out doing this because she wants to be trumps vice presidential nominee, right? she was the one who came up in the republican party as someone who is viewed as a moderate, someone who is going to change the face of the party. she started the organization. i believe it was called winning for women, a republican women's group that was supporting candidates across the country that were more moderate, more centrist. talking about issues that are more appealing to suburban women voters that republicans have lost out on in the last few elections and you see her transformation in real-time year. >> huge transformation. you invoked the name of another person auditioning for trumps vpn that is senator tim scott. listen to what he said on fox news. listen to what he claims would happen if donald trump wins re- election. >> protecting a law injustice is job 1 for president trump.

he will not target his political opponents, he will fire merrick garland and restore confidence that the department of justice. >> for real, joe? he will not target his political opponents when this week, all he said was you know, i might have to get revenge. come on. >> every time he speaks, i do not recognize who he is. but to andrew's point, i do not know who the vp pick is going to be but it can be somebody who has to lie about the election and say that donald trump is a victim of a weaponized justice department. that is the job requirement. >> look. tim scott is just like all of these republican vp wannabes and they are going back down to the very bottom to defend donald trump and say that he is saying things he doesn't say.

donald trump has said how he's going to weaponized the department of justice. we are not making that up. those are his own words. i think these republicans are trying to clean up donald trump's act but it's really not working. >> i want to squeeze in one more potential vp nominee. this is byron donalds at the town hall event. this is i changed my mind. element seven, element six. watch this.. >> more black people voted conservatively. >> now, the congresswoman went on with reverend sharpton yesterday and they got into a shouting match with aaron donald saying i did not say that. i'm not going to sit here and have you live. >> we just saw that.

>> can you? >> byron donalds posted the video, himself, of himself saying that. over 4000 fathers, brothers, mothers, sisters were. during jim crow, people's rights were taken away from them. black families were terrorized all across the south. byron donalds, i do not know what vision of america he is living in but it is not a version that many of our parents and grandparents experience. >> i'm going to give a shout out to my colleague who really did a masterful job interviewing him and pointing out all those things you just did, donna. my panel is going to stay with us. do not go anywhere. we are going to discuss rudy giuliani's crazy comment about georgia, fulton county d.a. fani willis. fani willis.

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back with me, former congressman joe walsh, don edwards and andrew a punch bowl. i teased this at the top of the show. listen to this from rudy giuliani. just listen. >> then i've got two prosecutors, fanny, the. >> is not funny and i am not calling her funny. i could drop the part she just quit and go away. >> abby to come to you first but i would love to hear what joe has to say about this. what he did is so repugnant. >> it is. it's the constant dehumanizing of black women and i think

black women see that. all women see that for what it is. it is really disgusting. it is beneath rudy giuliani but apparently nothing is beneath him. >> i come from right wing media. i engaged in stuff. is the cruelty. call it for what it is. the cruelty cells right now with the republican party base. that is just ugly. >> just real quickly on this, what comes to my mind is why don't we see elected officials in the capital running out and condemning that language or language of retribution or anything. or is it they don't say anything because the cruelty is the point. this is what trump wants and this is what we are getting. >> the members of congress, particularly republicans in the senate are more afraid of the vase than they ever have been

before. they are afraid to criticize remarks like this. they are afraid to do anything that would accept upset. even though they call themselves do not rationally agree with that type of rhetoric but using those words, right? it is that fear to condemn someone who is so loved by the base of the party and the people who sent them to congress. that is the push and pull we are seeing right now in the republican party. people like mitt romney, for example, not running for re- election. he calls this out readily but he is an outcast on the publican party. >> you forget about that. >> he is not cast. he is leaving the senate. there are very few left of his sort of breed of republican after the election. >> lindsay graham used to be but he totally transformed. tomorrow is a big day for

president trump. he's got his meeting with a probation officer. a new york city probation officer. quickly, let's play the former corrections commissioner. how he described it. >> we need a term. this individual supervision? it means is he or she receptive to accepting the restrictions that are placed upon them in the event they are placed on probation. will they comply with the rules or are they people who are likely to violate the rules? >> all right. you are already shaking your head. if you know what i've been asked, >> go ahead, joe. >> none of this applies to trumm. absolutely no remorse. he's not following the rules. jonathan, my great fear is that he's going to be sentenced to

prison in become of bigger martyr than he is now. >> spent a lot of time on criminal reading presentence reports. it's hard to imagine that trump is going to do anything that really mitigates in front of the judge for sentencing. i think division officers are going to have to conclude that this is a man who will not abide by the rules. >> doesn't have to go to jail. can they put them in house arrest, mar-a-lago? how hard could that be? >> there is a lot of options. that he's going to be on some level of revision and the question is he going to complied of the rules and the answer is no. >> he will one. he will scream that he is a victim and his base is going to get more roughed up. >> the rules, there are limits on travel. get permission to leave but also, he cannot associate with anyone with a criminal record. his entourage is lousy with convicted criminals. >> his entourage, his campaign, all of it. hard to imagine that he would be able to agree to even that

simple rule. >> okay. complicated topic and no time to keep going. don edwards, thank you all very much for coming to "the sunday show. when we come back, how performers are writing fighting back against the tax on black entertainment. from right here in the d.c. area jointly next to explain. ♪ ♪ [ engine revving ] oh now we're torquin'! - i love car puns! oh, i know. pppp-powershot! [ engine revving ] [ laughing ] the dodge hornet r/t. the totally torqued-out crossover. i bought the team! kevin...? i bought the team! i put it on my chase freedom unlimited card. and i'm gonna' cashback on a few other things too... starting with the sound system! curry from deep. that's caaaaaaaaash. i prefer the old intro!

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after thousands turned out for the annual parade yesterday. beyond the festivities of pride month, the there is also a focus on protecting lgbtq rights. a new coalition of drug kings and queens has formed a group called committee to support drag artists who have experienced targeted hate. this week, the group filed a petition to the fbi and dhs to monitor any threats that may occur during this year's pride events. last year's events saw a spike in hate and violence as glad reported 145 incidents of harassment, vandalism, and assault. another example of why group like committee are so necessarily right now. joining me now is dc-based dragon king and the president of committee black dynamite. thank you very much for being here, coming to the sunday show. >> thank you for having me. >> as president of committee and that is committee with a q, what you hope to achieve with this organization in the long

run? >> in the long run, we hope to be an organization that hopes to sort on the ground. a lot of our members are active in the communities. we are fighting against hit against violence. we want to be a central hub for resources to help them in that fight. >> last month, issued travel advisories for pride month. he did not specify where or who might be planning attacks. your organization came out with a petition asking for protection this month. what is been the response? >> so far, we have gotten 11,000 signatures. that is within just a couple of days of this launch. through this, we hope to really implore law-enforcement agencies to not only take more serious but to reach out to organizations like ours to help

and give us more resources that we can use to protect ourselves. >> the pushback against pride month isn't anything new but just this year feel different? >> things get a little more hype when it's election time. >> people come out of the woodwork. they want something to blame in the lgbtq community is a very easy target. i feel like it is difficult when it comes around every. >> every four years, and colorado, just this week, they are facing backlash after an email called supporters of our race rights godless groomers. they are calling for all pride flags to be burned. what are your thoughts about that? >>

>> every time a political leader wants to bolster his report, he finds some kind of a scapegoat. >> where the shooting occurred, there were injuries and five murders in the incident, these are the exact kind that embolden people to go out and commit crimes like that. it is our job in the committee and in other organizations to try and have support to those who might be targeted as hatred. >> thank you very much, black dynamite, for being here and bringing your message. what the committee qommittee is working on. more of tron "the sunday show" on msnbc after the break.

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we have a programming note for tonight. miss nbc presents an encore presentation of prosecuting donald trump -- witness to history. look at the new york criminal trial featuring eyewitness accounts from rachel maddow and andrew weissman and team who all experienced it firsthand. that's tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc and streaming now on peacock. and that's it for me. thanks for watching the sunday show.

follow us on x, instagram, tiktok and threads using the handle -- and catch clips of the show on youtube. you can also listen to every episode of our show as a podcast for free. just scan the qr code on your screen right there. right now. to follow. don't go anywhere. good evening, tonight, an nbc news exclusive. donald trump just hours away if the presentencing probation interview and there's something inusual about it. plus financial disclosures from the supreme court justices revealing a notable update about justice clarence thomas. and posing a larger question about court ethics. and i will speak to a former u.s. army major joining a string of resignations over the biden administration's gaza war policy. i'm amonomoe ha dean. let's do it.