on this new hour of diamond, a key member of israel's core cabinet has resigned. what does this departure mean for netanyahu's war on gaza? also, tonight, extremism on the rise, hate group surge across america and why are migrant family still being separated at the u.s. border and being left in limbo. here with is live, let's do it. we began with an important seismic shakeup in the israeli government. benny gantz, one of the three core members of israel's war cabinet and vitamin netanyahu's top clinical rival has resigned. in a press conference today, he said, quote, netanyahu prevents us from moving forward to real

victory and accused his far right coalition of prioritizing political considerations over war strategy. last month, gantz gave netanyahu an ultimatum, present a plan for the day after the war in gaza, by june 8th, or else. it was one of the most visible signs of division within the emergency wartime government, a team of political rivals who had until recently projected unity. but netanyahu has not produced a plan for gaza's future beyond rejecting a two state solution and insisting on israel's long- term security oversight over gaza and the west bank. so gantz followed through on his threat to step down, delayed by one day due to the brutal israeli attack to rescue hostages in gaza. today, netanyahu, for a second time, publicly urged gantz to stay, posting on x, quote, israel is in an x essential war on several fronts.

benny, this is not the time to abandon a campaign. this is a time to join forces. with gantz's resignation, it will not merely think netanyahu's government but it does mean that he now needs the far right members of his coalition more than ever to stay in power. already, the national security minister highly controversial figure, ben-gvir, one of israel's most radical nationalists and is now demanding a seat in the war cabinet. he is saying he was the power of his party to be given expression and not as it has been until now. gantz was asked today whether his resignation leaves the israeli government without any adults in the room. here is what he said. >> i was very privileged together with my friends to bring to the cabinet room all the experience we have. i know that the other people, mainly off-balance and they know it should be done hopefully they will stick to what should

be done, and it will be okay. >> this is the biggest shakeup to israel's leadership since october 7, and comes at a critical moment in the war. a comp room hostage deal is on the table right now. the world is waiting for a response from hamas, but it is not clear if israel will also accept the terms outlined by president biden. netanyahu says there are gaps between the proposal biden described and the one he approved, and even ministers like ben-gvir have rejected it. netanyahu will make his case for what he describes as israel's just war when he comes to speak before the u.s. congress. we must ask, will gantz's departure result in real fundamental change for the war in gaza? the problem does not lie singularly with netanyahu but with israel's ideological and institutional approach to the palestinian issue, largely

speaking. the policies preventing, for example, palestinian statehood and liberation are deeply entrenched in israeli society and the resignation from one so- called moderate cabinet minister will not necessarily change that. joining me now to discuss this ambassador alan pincus, the formal israeli consul general in new york and chief of staff are four is really foreign ministers and eastern africa studies on the council of foreign relations. he is also the offer of the book, the end of ambition, america's past, present, and future in the middle east. gentlemen, it is great to have both of you with us. ambassador, i will start with you and get your take on this is recognition. does any gantz is recognition change anything about how israel conducts this war in gaza or these talks for a cease- fire and hostage deal? >> high, good evening. it looks like a drama. it looks like a political earthquake. it is not but it does have the potential to evolve and do

something very dramatic if mr. gantz resignation. which is according to most of his critics was related by at least five or six days -- months. to a large extent, any guest in decision-making and the cabinet was marginal. his ability to affect change in both the prosecution of the war and in developing and crafting a strategy for postwar in gaza was marginal. he essentially became an enabler. i think if you read stephen cook's article on foreign- policy yesterday, even the americans got him wrong in terms of thinking he is some centrist, even left of center. in terms of policy, he is a decent man. there is no malice there. he meant well when he joined the government. it was a time of emergency.

effectively, he enabled netanyahu. he is complacent and he is an accomplice to every mistake, every strategic fluid assumption that this government made. now, in terms of how this will affect the war, it doesn't change the fundamental element, the fundamental parameters of what needs to be done. israel still faces a binary choice, except the plan or not except the plan. it sounds bizarre, i'm in, netanyahu rejects israel's plan. it is like, you know. 1994. george orwell except that it is netanyahu's 2024. so in that respect, nothing changes as a result of his departure. >> stephen, there is an interesting element in his press conference, i should say, a fact that came out and that is he is honestly calling for new elections in israel this

fall but that was somewhat echoed by chuck schumer here a couple of weeks ago. senate leader chuck schumer, the highest making jewish official american history demanding that netanyahu step aside and calling for early elections, as well. first of all, do you see that happening? what are the chances that the next reiteration of the israeli government does not move further to the right, if you do bring in somebody like ben-gvir or give more power to the more right of netanyahu elements in the government and society. >> there is pressure coming from the outside for a new elections, and certainly from within, from benny gantz. the other major figure in the opposition. but netanyahu, even with gantz's decision to leave the government has a solid majority in the knesset so he can stick it out as long as he has the support of his partners, the radical right. think of a. this government is

likely to move further to the right, as a result. however, it is true, any gantz has played essentially a marginal role. now that you have ben-gvir demanding on a greater say in the war effort, that is likely to move things to the right in ways that are not good for the palestinians, obviously, and the israelis, as well. gantz poss resignation is actually quite puzzling to me and ways. if he is concerned with national security and israel, if he is concerned about the war effort, it strikes me that he would want to remain in the war cabinet and insert himself rather than take himself out and let the country continue its march to the right. and who knows what will happen. ben-gvir and most of us want to resettle the gaza strip. that is an ultimate disaster so it may be that gantz thought he could save himself but fight

for another day and improve his political chances. but it leads to a suboptimal outcome for everybody else. >> what does that mean, stephen, for the united states in the situation? you got the secretary of state, antony blinken now heading to the region for the eighth time since october 7th. they are on the cusp of waking up to an israeli government that is more extreme and, as you just said, potentially calling for the resettling, the full reoccupation of gaza and the displacement, perhaps, of the palestinians. if you do bring in people, or not bring in, but to give people like into mark ben-gvir more power over the conduct of this war and gaza policy. >> i was perhaps the least optimistic person in washington when it came to a cease-fire anyways. and i am even less optimistic about this. there is no basis for agreement at this point. unfortunately, it seems, after all this terrible bloodshed, that the conflict is not yet ripe for a resolution and secretary of state tony blinken is going to find the same problems that he found on his

previous trips. >> ambassador, your thoughts on what america should do now? as you probably heard my previous hours, spoke to former u.s. army major who resigned saying that america actually does have a lot of leverage over israel. perhaps more so than any other country in the region. he needs to step up and exerted to change course. as a diplomat, former diplomat, i should say. what you think america should do now as it sees this israeli government, and even just consistently moved to the right and to the extreme right with no fundamental change in policy, vis-@-vis the palestinians? >> in president biden's credit, to president biden's credit. he warned mr. netanyahu, the government was informed that this is an extremist government and then when mr. netanyahu instigated a constitutional coup in january of '23, it was followed by biden not refraining from inviting him to washington, to the white house for nine full months, and then the war rocha, et cetera, et

cetera. so yes, the u.s. has all kinds of levers that it can use. it chose, until now, not to use them. and i heard your interview with major, and you made actually, you presented, submitted two premises, and you are right on both. both has letters and chooses not to use them, and, to a large extent, most of its lovers, because mr. netanyahu has been entranced and defiant and is actually seeking confrontation with biden. his plan right now is to try and stall and waste time and wait until america is sucked into its election cycle, full force. around september. and then he hopes that mr. trump will be elected. there is no question and there is no doubt about that. what the u.s. needs to do now

is one of two things. it needs to do its basic calculus of how much our american interests being sergeant here. and that pertains to a possible escalation in lebanon and direct feed, rather than what the palestinians or pull out, meaning, you know, say to mr. netanyahu, do what ever the hell you want, but leave us out. which is obviously not a reasonable or realistic option. but what they can do. i know we don't have time. the u.s. can do and has not done until now is for president biden, not anyone else, not secretary of state link in, not national security advisor sullivan. for biden himself, for the president himself to stand out, stand up, and make a speech differentiating, drawing a distinction, a clear distinction between israel and mr. netanyahu and calling mr. netanyahu's bluff, if he

believes that is going to be a blow. i don't know. >> will have to wait and see if the president is watching this, maybe he will heed your advice. ambassador, i noticed very late in israel. thank you so much for staying up for us. i really appreciate it. we appreciate it. we greatly appreciated. stephen cook, great to see you, as well. my friend, congratulations on the book next up, why a man dressed up as an exterminator started a hateful conspiracy theory that is spreading like wildfire ahead of november's election, then later on, caitlin clark left off with team usa. was she snubbed? a treatment ca. keytruda is known to treat cancer. fda-approved for 17 types of cancer, including certain early-stage and advanced cancers. one of those cancers is early-stage

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her uncle's unhappy. becau i'm sensing ans pain at theunderlying issue.mation. it's t-mobile. it started when we tried to get him under a new plan. but they they unexpectedly unraveled their “price lock” guarantee. which has made him, a bit... unruly. you called yourself the “un-carrier”. you sing about “price lock” on those commercials. “the price lock, the price lock...” so, if you could change the price, change the name! it's not a lock, i know a lock. so how can we undo the damage? we could all unsubscribe and switch to xfinity. their connection is unreal. and we could all un-experience this whole session. okay, that's uncalled for. back in march, a man posing as a test exterminator arrived at a hotel in san diego that serves as a shelter for migrant families in an attempt to gain access. he was turned away. according to new york times

report, just three days later, menacing calls began pouring into staff at the catholic charity's, the organization running the shelter. one voicemail left for the chief executive called him, quote, scum and not really christian. another woman in a message to a different staff member accused the nonprofit of flying emigrants all over the country, profiting from illegal operation. the false, baseless claim can be traced back to james o'keefe, the guy disguised as the fake exterminator. he is the far right founder of project veritas, an extremist group that carries out these undercover operations to undermine and target progressive voters. turns out the keypad made posts on x thing the shelter was illegally holding and trafficking emigrants. in san diego, what began as online threats turned into threats in real life, when o'keefe supporters started showing up at other catholic charities and sites. private armed guards were posted outside facilities

across the city after people apparently prompted by o'keefe's posts, came searching for, quote, smuggled children. volunteers were sent home, employees continue to work were told to keep a low profile or catholic charities founder, said, quote, we had never seen this level of harassment. this is just one story that disinformation campaign and conspiracy theories targeting catholic charities is part of a much larger story about the far right intensifying hostility and targeted threats across this country. it is one of the findings in a new report by the southern poverty law center, which found 835 active antigovernment groups and 595 active hate groups across the united states last year, together totaling 1430. in between 2022 and 2023, the number of white nationalist groups grew by more than 50% from 109 to a historic high of 165. and it is no coincidence that we are seeing all this happen

right now. quote, extremists and those opposing inclusive democracy have used the past year to legitimize insurrection, paint hate as virtuous and transform false conspiracy theories into truth. all in preparation for one of the most significant elections in u.s. history. joining me now to discuss this is pete semi, professor of sociology at chapman university. and he is the co-author of out of hiding, extremist white supremacy and how it can be stopped. professor, it's great to have you on the program. let me start with your response to this idea laid out by the southern poverty law center report in 2023, it became clear that two years since the january 6th insurrection was a time of preparation for the hard right, and effectively we are going to see all this manifest within the next several months as we head into this critical election? >> first, thanks for having me on. i think it is right on target.

what we saw after january 6th, 2021 was a period of time where you know, extremists kind of went into a short period of trying to regroup obviously the arrests and prosecutions had some substantial impacts on that world. but arrests and prosecutions aren't enough, and when you're not dealing with the root causes of the problem, these groups are able to kind of essentially regroup and then re- emerge even stronger. and i think that is exactly what we are seeing and what the southern poverty law center is pointing to. >> how does conspiracy theories play into the activity and rise of hate groups right now thinking about the harassment we saw play out at a migrant shelter in san diego. what led people to the january 6th insurrection, how is it that these baseless theories are resonating so much with people on the far right driving

them to make these both online and real-life threats, even things like pizza gates that we saw several years ago? >> and menus, conspiracy theories are kind of a defining feature of extremist hate groups. one of the things that they do that is so important for them is that they offer a bridge of sorts and that conspiracy theories can reach a much broader audience. of course, we saw that on january 6th, in terms of the attack on the u.s. capitol. lots of different sorts of folks that ended up showing up by the thousands at the capitol that day. you had the proud boys, you had the three presenters. oath keepers, neo nazis, neo- confederate, a lot of folks that weren't necessarily affiliated with those groups. one thing they had in common is they all believed in this conspiracy theory about the stolen election. and you know, these kind of ideas are really, provide people a special sense that

they are aware of things that the average person isn't aware of, and provides them with this kind of special knowledge, secretive knowledge, special insight. it really goes along with the idea, the that extremist groups offer to their adherents, that you're a part of a special population, special culture, special country, special race, special religion that is different and, quite frankly, superior to other groups. >> when you look at this record number of anti-lgbtq+ and white nationalist groups in 2023, numbering 186 and 165 respectively, why are these groups specifically, in your opinion, growing so significantly as they have grown? has there m.o. shifted and having this kind of hatred towards the lgbtq+ community? >> that is 18 many hot button issues that these kind of groups are good at identifying and then targeting and really spending a lot of time

directing disinformation towards and propaganda and really trying to highlight the supposedly dangerous and risk a so that go along with, from their perspective, these hot button issues. immigration has been one for years, as well. and frankly, right now, they have at their fingertips, some of the most powerful technology in human history, in terms of social media platforms and the problems that you mentioned, the root problems that we are really not addressing, social media platforms, the lack of regulation around those. that will certainly be one of them coupled with national leadership that is helping essentially espouse some of the same ideas using literally, in the case of donald trump, the language of nazi germany to help promote these ideas. so they had these megaphones, whether it is national leaders or social media platforms at their disposal, that really empower them to a substantial extent.

>> do you think that we have the adequate legal tools to take on these organizations x when you think about, as you were just mentioning, the issues of social media. it obviously rubs up against the issue of free speech in this country, that is always a find point when you're trying to go after these groups, he almost kind of have to wait until the free speech becomes actionable and they go out and carry out some kind of attack or potential violence. at which point it violates the law but up until the point of actually doing something about it, it falls, some would argue, under free speech. we have the legal tools the way that we have designated foreign terrorist organizations to go after isis and what have you? do we have enough adequate resources and tools to go after domestic terrorist organizations? >> i think we do have, i don't think a new statute is the answer, per se. i do think essentially utilizing resources that we have, being more aggressive, understanding that arresting and prosecuting is an important

part of it, it is a necessary part of it but it is honestly not the only part of it. and then a civil issue, in terms of talk about the law. i do think that it needs some changes in that realm as it relates to social media platforms and being able to hold them more civilly accountable for the material that they are publishing and, of course, that means congressional changes to section 230. and i do think it is clear that social media platforms are not willing to take the kind of aggressive actions that are necessary to essentially cleanup their platforms. >> all right, professor pete sent me, it is a pleasure, thank you so much for joining us. i greatly appreciate your insights. >> thanks for having me. next, families are still being separated at the southern border. and why. and why. the best way to solve a problem is to keep it from happening. (♪♪) at evernorth, we combine medical and pharmacy data

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last october, a peruvian

family was taken into border patrol custody in the san diego area, during the process the parents were separated from their 18-month-old son, then released without him, according to a report from prison. if it wasn't for several military organizations that stepped in to help, that family may have never been reunited. they were able to track the boys whereabouts to a detention center hundreds of miles away, in texas. according to this february reporting from prison, legal advocates have accounted for at least 1000 instances of family separation across san diego county under this tactic known as street release, where migrants in custody are released without resources or shelter. at the start of his presidency, joe biden officially rescinded trumps zero-tolerance policy in the reunification task force that, according to dhs, has reunified 795 children with their parents, as of march. but despite those efforts, families are still being separated under a president who campaigned on a humane approach to immigration and strongly denounced the policies of his

predecessor. now despite that, biden has signed an executive order this past week that drastically curtails humanitarian right to seek asylum. joining me now to discuss this, and more, is president and ceo of global refuge and a former policy director on the obama admin, and msnbc contributor who has done a lot of reporting on this and many other issues. it is great to have both of you with us. i will start with you, under a settlement reached in december with the families who were separated under the trump administration, border officials can still separate families in limited circumstances, such as if an adult poses a danger to a child or to national security. that didn't appear to be the case with the family that we just mentioned. to what do you oh these types of policies still taking place today? i think most people would be hearing about this now and still be shocked that this policy is still happening in

this country? >> i think part of what we are seeing is a situation where policy does incentivize family separation. and that is true not just on u.s. soil but at the u.s.- mexico border, as well. when you think about even the new executive order, which exempts unaccompanied children, what that means is that a family that is fleeing for their lives, makes a possible choice of either allowing their children to travel unaccompanied across the border so that they can reach safety, or to remain in mexico obviously, families have experienced assault and far worse. in terms of the specific case that you are describing. i think this is where you know, there still some confusion on how policies are being implemented. we care for unaccompanied children and, obviously, it is horrific to see that even under this administration, we have echoes of what we saw as a real policy under president trump, which was essentially

government sanctioned kidnapping. >> this report the site a difference between the family separations under trump versus biden, under trump federal immigration officials separated small children from their parents, whereas under biden, officials separated different family four nations, mainly parents and their adult children what does this say overall about our immigration system, specifically that these policies are continuing under a democratic president? is that just the result of vague policies and the lack of clarity as to how this should be implement it? or is it because there is something different at play here? >> i think what you're seeing is a biden administration that is falling into a political trap i do think we have to be very clear when we are talking about zero-tolerance, going back in history, that was such a dark chapter in our history, we had a trump administration that made decisions out of cruelty and made decisions out of the

action of dehumanizing others. and here we have a biden administration that is falling into a political trap. over the last four years we have seen this admin that has made promises and that suddenly, it is shifting to the right. as you pointed out, ayman. i want to remember that the very very last week of the 2020 november election, the biden campaign released a video call separated. and in that video, just five days before everyone went out to vote, he specifically highlighted trumps zero policy initiative. he highlighted the cruelty. in here we are, just five months before the election, and as we have been discussing, he has been starting to sound and use language that does sort of remind us of donald trump. and at the end of the day, that is a political trap because the bottom line is, you cannot out trump trump when it comes to immigration and the border. what worked in 2020 was that humanity, as you described, anything that tries to shift to the right of donald trump is a failed political strategy. >> so to that point, krisher.

makes a really good point with this flaming framing of a political trial when it comes to the issue of immigration. i do want to turn to biden's new executive order. any any time the seven day average of a legal border crossings reaches 2500 migrant entering the u.s. between legal ports of entry, with some exceptions, will be banned from claiming asylum and deported talk to me about how this is implemented. several department of homeland security officials responsible for carrying out the actions. on the condition of anonymity to msnbc, there is concern that the tension facilities across centers for migrants could quickly become overcrowded. what are you hearing about this and why? >> it is such an important question because for organizations like local refuge who work with asylum-seekers, the executive order raises a number of concerns. for one, there are very significant questions about its ultimate legality and enforceability. you know, the trump administration used the same authority to shut down the

southern border and that was also really locked by federal courts. also raises some serious locations for asylum seeking families who are trying to seek protection because of these arbitrary numerical limits. i think the final important point is just understand that we know from trump era policies that were hard-line restrictions. they don't actually deter people from crossing the border. so we are perplexed by a policy that isn't going to actually be effective, that is harkening back to the trump administration, and i think it is a result of congressional inaction. but the administration could put in place a system that respects our border, but also respect our humanitarian and legal obligations. >> back in april, reported on how migrant women are being targeted by cartels as they wait and limbo at the mexican border to hear back about their asylum claims. i remember talking to you about

it back then. how do you see biden's new order exacerbating this specific issue? >> i mean, as all of us know, the desperation isn't in there. what we are seeing is simply a more dangerous situation. what this means on the ground is that more families, their lives will be in the hands of the cartels. they will be held hostage. they will be exposed to sexual violence and sexual assault. many families will be sleeping in tent cities. many families will go hungry. many families will be repatriated to countries that are death sentences. many families will set a suddenly be staring into the united states at this time them, no matter the violence that they are facing, no matter the inhumanity, no matter the cruelty. no matter how many attempts there are by the cartels to end their lives, in this country, or try to make it harder for them to seek asylum. we all know that that desperation will only mean that these families will literally put their lives in the hands of the cartels to find other routes to cross into this

country. that is what we are facing. >> a troubling situation for every one involved. thank you so much for the both of you, greatly appreciated. coming up, far right extremism spreads across israel, sanctioned by one of the country's top government officials. ♪ i have type 2 diabetes, but i manage it well ♪ ♪ jardiance! ♪ ♪ it's a little pill with a big story to tell ♪ ♪ i take once-daily jardiance ♪ ♪ at each day's start! ♪ ♪ as time went on it was easy to see ♪ ♪ i'm lowering my a1c! ♪ jardiance works twenty-four seven in your body to flush out some sugar. and for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease, jardiance can lower the risk of cardiovascular death, too.

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and may your village burn and other racist and violent slogans. the most troubling things were attacks on journalists. these are palestinian journalists, clad in a press pass, being threatened and physically attacked by a mob right wing israelis. he was kicked and pummeled by the mob, had objects thrown at him and sustained a head injury. even more troubling, it was the journalist who was detained by police, who confiscated his equipment after he was attacked. i known right-wing activists contacted the police and claimed that he was a hamas operative. that is all the evidence the police needed to detain him. also reported that the police did not arrest any of the at at attackers. intimidation from the palestinian sections of jerusalem not new. this mart has been and will for

decades. we're not just dealing with outlaws or a fringe group this is appearing at the core of israel's power structure. take for example, national security administer, ben-gvir. here that this week's march and visited the complex that palestinians referred to, israelis called the temple mount. israeli journalist called the move a, quote, shattering of the status quo, since the rules about who is allowed where at this compound are extremely delicate. in the far right israeli leader marching through the muslim holy site is typically seen as a provocation of violence. case and point, september 20th, 2000, right wing opposition leader in the and infamously made the same track. a move that helped spark the second palestinian intifada. went on to defeat labor months

later, which ended any hopes of an israeli-palestinian peace accord and ushered in years of increased violence. so been here knew exactly what he was doing. when the u.s. government continues to give israel unconditional financial military and diplomatic support and aid, american should know exactly who and what their tax dollars support. more ayman after a quick break. ak. will

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is one of the most anticipated games of the season, the first wnba clash between former college rivals, and now start rookies, angel rees and caitlin clark. the most notable moment came in the third quarter, when chicago sky guard kennedy carter hit checked caitlin clark before the ball is inbound, essentially pushing her to the floor your average fan but what a cheap shot, it is also the kind of hard lay one occasionally sees in pro sports. regardless, the incident sparked hot takes galore across the sports world. with many mostly male commentators calling on league officials to protect caitlin clark. other reactions were plainly inappropriate. espn host called mcafee called her, quote, a white b word. he later apologized. the chicago ran an editorial calling a hip check to sold. the median meltdown is part of what the atlantic dubs the one downside of gender equality in sports, a movement in women's

basketball means more commentary from men who don't know what they're talking about. join me now to discuss this is the author of that piece, contributing writer for the l.a., jamel hill. it is great to have you on the show. you know, so much to unpack here. let me start with charles barkley and other male commentators who accused the wnba layers of being jealous of clark's popularity, the carter foul seems to have supercharged that view. what do you think that type of criticism gets wrong about how veterans are treating clark? >> well, one, thanks for having me on. one, i think a lot of them and who are commenting, they seem to come at the same time, forget about how they competed if they were former players in the way that charles barkley was , forget about how they commentate and frame a lot of the story lines that happen on the men's side, whereas when men challenge each other, when a new rookie comes in and there is some kind of.

were, of course, you have want to see how misses person really who they say they are, it is often considered a competitive and natural part of the game. yet, with women, they seem to reduce their level of competitiveness to something that is very triggering, particularly when we are talking about a leak that a 70% black. they go with these code words, petty, jealousy. making it sound like we're talking about a real housewives reunion on bravo. this is not what this is, this is a competitive fire. and naturally, of course, when you are the talent, the generational talent that caitlin clark is, there's going to be a lot when you come to the next level. the women in the wnba are the escalators of the world at their sport. it is a reason why the olympic team has won seven gold medals in a row. it is a reason why they are 70 and three and they haven't lost a game since the '90s. where did the thing is women were coming from? this leak. if they're that good that would

me naturally for any rookie, there's going to be a bit of a learning curve where they can understand the physicality and the way the game is played. it is very natural in men's sports when you go from college to the pros, that in college, you can't get away with in the pros. that is what makes it the pros. but the men who commentate seem to forget all of this when it comes to caitlin clark. >> you bring up an interesting point. i do want to ask you about that. there has been an obvious racial component to some of these debates. carter and angel rees, who were seen cheering after the foul are both black. and people are talking about that and explained that point how does race play into the media's explosive reactions to the story lines? >> will this is a collocated question, and a complicated answer. so let me go back and sum it up correctly. okay, again, the wnba is 70% black. so the face of the caitlin, they made out to be black. one of the tropes, and many of the tropes about the black women is that there confrontational, aggressive,

petty, jealous, all the things. so when those traits are ascribed to women in general, when people want to talk competitively about women. i think, in this case, particularly sticks because you have that object of black versus white. let's be honest, another white player had done, it would not merely have been as inclusive as it was. because you have the dynamic of her and angel rees, a black player and a white layer having a personal rivalry, it becomes racially charged by the optics. i'm old enough to remember when johnson, when they were college rivals came over to the pros. a lot of what people talked about then, how their talents are characterized was based off racial perceptions in this country of both of them. i don't know why people think that this wouldn't be alive and well in this rivalry, but it is. and angel rees has bore the brunt of a lot of this because she chose to, you know, sorta be confident about the level of play that she has when they

were in college. and listen, i don't agree that she should have been clapping when kennedy carter took her down but at the same time, within the context of a broader rivalry. they took some cheap shots at each other, that's what happened. again, it is interesting how the same things that are celebrated, marketed, and that fans love on one side of the game, a totally different gender, they are suddenly clutching their pearls on the other side. >> i grew up a little bit in detroit. i know very well what a violent or tough basketball game looks like. but to ask you about something you brought up really quick. we are almost out of time, though. the debate that was parked this weekend about caitlin clark being left off the u.s. olympic rascal team. some describe it as a snub. she is still a rookie, though. she's a two-time nieces mentor winner. has not included the standout rookie before or any rookie is before, what is your reaction and do you agree with calling it a snub? >> i don't think it is a snub

and i honestly wasn't surprised. i thought this months ago. i think she is going to have a pretty hard time making the team. and that is not about her ability. i think eventually caitlin clark, i think this is almost a guarantee. about the transition, she went from playing college ball to play in a professional league within a matter of weeks, when they were holding the child in their camp, she wasn't able to play in any of that. she has some international experience but not a lot. she is at a position where it is a little bit tougher because you are a guard a little bit on the slight side. she is adjusting to the physicality where the international level is more. it is a very successful team there is a lot of people that do not get on this team and work this time around. and so i think if we just take the caitlin clark nests away from it and people will probably better understand the decision. >> like you said, the women's

team is the most dominant team in the sports. it is tough to break into at any level, let alone your rookie year. thank you so much, greatly appreciate having this conversation with you tonight >> appreciate you. >> always. that is it for me tonight. thank you for joining us. make sure to catch ayman, follow us on x and instagram. after the break , and encore presentation of prosecuting donald trump, witness to history. until we meet again, have a good night. i felt like disconnecting. i asked my doctor about treating my td, and learned about ingrezza. ♪ ingrezza ♪ ingrezza is clinically proven for reducing td. most people saw results in just two weeks. people taking ingrezza can stay on most mental health meds. only number-one prescribed ingrezza has simple dosing for td: always one pill, once daily. ingrezza can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington's disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, behaviors, feelings, or have thoughts of suicide.

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