the activist who made those new alito recordings joins joy reid next, so keep it locked for "the reidout" with joy reid on msnbc. tonight on "the reidout" -- >> if anybody goes down, if you start going down, we have people who will pick you up right away. they'll throw water. you know, they were so worried.

everybody was so worried yesterday about you, and they never mentioned me. i'm up here sweating like a dog. i don't care about you. i just want your vote. i don't care. >> my relationship, very smart. by the way, a lot of shark attacks lately. there was a shark or you get electrocuted. i'll take electrocution every time. >> donald trump once again making absolutely bonkers remarks on the campaign trail. and it's just the tip of the iceberg. the more dangerous rhetoric has to do with the policies he would enact if he's put back into the white house again. and as we await pivotal supreme court decisions, there is bombshell new audio today featuring justice samuel alito and his wife upside down flag the newsiest martha ann, talking blunty about their politics. the woman who captured that audio, activist lauren windsor, joins me in studio in just a moment. plus, just a normal day in trump world as the former president and soon to be

republican nominee meets with his probation officer, as one does, for a presentencing interview as his looming punishment for the crimes he committed in new york gets more and more real. >> but we begin tonight with some explosive new audio of samuel alito and his wife, martha ann. important context as we await crucial supreme court rulings this week on everything from abortion, medication access, to guns, to presidential immunity. in case you think it can't get worse from this court, understand it very likely will. this isn't a court that just reads the constitution and calls balls and strikes. this court's majority is hardly apolitical. public faith in the supreme court has plummeted since the conservative majority overturned roe v. wade. and the court has been engulfed in what seems like never ending scandals that call into question

not just how idealogical the conservative majority is, but also their ethical standards. amy coney barrett's husband is a lawyer representing a fox affiliate in illinois. john roberts' wife is a head hunter who cases lawyers at firms that have cases before the court. we don't know who paid off brett kavanaugh's massive debts before he joined the court, and then there's justices samuel alito and clarence thomas who have each accepted lavish luxury gifts from political operatives and participated in overtly political events hosted by koch industries and republican donors. and these two justices have also been unbowed and unbothered when displaying their political motivations. they have also just so happened to be married to two women, ginni thomas and martha ann alito, who are dogmatic political activists. a federal judge in washington, d.c. recently announced he's retiring because he was tired of having his decisions reviewed, and i quote, by a supreme court that seemed to hold in such low

regard the principles to which i have dedicated my life, unquote. perhaps he feels that way because ever since donald trump cemented a conservative supermajority on the court including with a nomination stolen from president obama, a number of these justices have become emboldened and self righteous, particularly alito, whose power has grown alongside his public grievances with the secular direction of american society. in 1985, while applying for a job in the reagan administration, he explained what drew him into government and politics. writing, quote, the greatest influences on my views were the writings of william f. buckley jr. and the national review and barry goldwater's 1964 campaign. you know barry goldwater, who opposed the civil rights act. he added that he had particularly opposed a number of warren court rulings that led to the most expansive civil rights era in american history. in 2008, after being on the

court for nearly three years, alito spoke at a fund-raising gala for a right-wing magazine, after disparaging president obama he went obto criticize the, quote, legal vanguard that imagined that law would move dramatically leftward after the warren court. he ended by saying, they turned out to be wrong. alito disrespected president obama again during a 2010 state of the union address, after the president correctly criticized the citizens united decision that kicked open the flood gates to billionaires like leonard leo to buy up politics and apparently our courts. then there was that time months after he penned the dobbs decision overturning roe when alito attended an event in rome and complained about the rise in secularism, unprompted, he went on to complain that world leaders dared to question his ruling. >> i had the honor this term of writing, i think, the only

supreme court decision in the history of that institution that has been lambasted by a whole string of foreign leaders. who felt perfectly fine commenting on american law. one of these was a former prime minister boris johnson. but he paid the price. all i'm going to say is that ultimately, if we are going to win the battle to protect religious freedom in an increasingly secular society, we will need more than positive law. >> he added that if religious liberty is protected, men and women of faith will be able to speak out on social issues which is exactly what he's been doing. while he likes speaking up, he doesn't like being called out. alito posted an unprecedented rebuke of propublica in the rupert murdoch owned "wall street journal" before they posted a stunning report that he had accepted a luxury fishing

trip from republican mega donor paul singer, who had active cases in front of the supreme court. that's all before the upside down flag, the upside down american flag, i should note, and the jesus at the insurrection flag flew at his homes and that's just the stuff he's been saying in public, which makes you wonder what he's been saying behind closed doors. there's blockbuster new audio that gives us insight into this. it comes from lauren windsor, who is know for approaching high profile conservative figures pretending to be an ally and recording them making candid comments, spoke to justice alito at the supreme court historical society's annual dinner earlier this month where she asked him about political polarization. >> as a catholic and as someone who like really cherishes my faith, i just don't -- i don't know that we can negotiate with the left in the way that, like,

needs to happen for the polarization to end. i think that it's a matter of, like, winning. >> i think you're probably right. on one side or the other, one side or the other is going to win. i don't know. i mean, there can be a way of working -- a way of living together peacefully, but it's difficult. because there are differences on fundamental things that really can't be compromised. they really can't be compromised. so it's not like you can split the difference. >> and that's what i'm saying. i think the solution really is like winning the moral argument. like people in this country who believe in god have got to keep fighting for that, to return our country to a place of godliness. >> i agree with you.

i agree with you. >> and just to underscore how unusual that kind of response is from a supreme court justice, here is chief justice john roberts after being asked a similar question by ms. windsor. >> you don't think there's like a role for the court in like guiding us toward a more moral path? >> no, i think the role for the court is deciding the cases. if i start -- would you want me to be in charge of guiding us toward a more moral path? that's are for the people we elect. that's not the lawyers. >> i guess i believe that the founders were godly, like, were christians. and i think that we live in a christian nation, and that our supreme court should be guiding us in that path. >> i don't know that we live in a christian nation. i know a lot of jewish and muslim friends who would say maybe not. and it's not our job to do that. it's our job to decide the cases as best we can. >> joining me now is the creator and executive producer of the

undercurrent, lauren windsor, whose voice you just heard in the secret recordings. we should also note lauren attended this dinner as a dues paying member of the society under her real name. welcome back to had show. one side or the other is going to win. it's not like we can split the difference. these are shocking comments. before i get to how you reacted to them, i want to underscore that. how did you get into this event? >> i was a dues paying member. i bought a ticket. >> were you surprised because there's another part of your recording where you say, hey, i talked to you in 2022, but alito kept talking. he seemed undeterred by the fact you're someone he doesn't know personally, and he was willing to say a lot to you. >> so it was 2023, and i included both of the interactions there just so people could see that, you know, i think some of the criticism is oh, he was just agreeing with you or what not, but look at his answer in 2023. it was different. it was no, we don't have a role. i don't know, i don't know.

it was also contrasted to roberts' answer. >> this is justice alito in 2023 also talking to you, lauren, and talking about the media. take a listen. >> this is like the last bastion of public trust. and how do we get back to that? >> i wish i knew. i don't know. it's easy to blame the media, but i do blame them because they do nothing but criticize us. and so they have really eroded trust in the court. i don't know. i really don't know. i mean, ordinary people, ordinary isn't the right word, american citizens in general need to work on this. to try to heal this polarization because it's very dangerous. i do believe it's dangerous. >> so a very different answer back then. >> yeah. >> were you surprised at how candid he was about saying one

side or the other is going to win. it's not like we can split the difference. he's essentially saying he's agreeing, yes, we need to win this culture war. >> yes, of course. when the first interaction happened i was like, okay, well, it's very hard to get a judge, a justice, even lower level judges to talk about politics, anything that might imply politics to give any sort of hint or signal as to what their own opinions may be. and so after that first interaction, i didn't publish it because it wasn't very newsworthy. interesting but not newsworthy. can felt like in the course of the last year, because that was before the spotlight was on him with propublica. i felt that grievance was more piqued over the past year with his own experience. i wanted to see if he had a different reaction. >> he certainly did. let's talk about martha ann. justice alito has blamed her, saying it was her flag, she was the one who flew it, it was her fault there was an upside down flag and then an appeal to

heaven flag outside their vacation home. let me play for you, and this is new audio, it just recently went up on your social media, and on rolling stone. here is martha ann alito, and you go up to her and you start by saying, i'm a big fan of your husband, and let's hear what happens after that. >> i'm a huge fan of your husband, and everything you're going through, i just want to tell you that -- >> it's okay. it's okay. >> it's not okay, though. it's not okay. >> it's okay because if they come back to me, i'll get them. i'm going to be liberated and i'm going to get them. >> what do you mean? >> there's a five-year defamation statute of limitations. >> i don't know what you mean by they. oh, okay. >> come on, i'll get you. come on. >> i am normally not speechless. i'll get them, i'm going to get them. i'll be liberated and i'm going

to get them. she talks about a five-year defamation statute of limitations. we know there are conservative legal groups who would like to allow the media to be sued for defamation. donald trump talks about it all the time. do you think that's what she was talking about? >> i certainly feel like, yeah, she would like to go after the media, but the implication here with the five-year statute of limitations is justice alito will be retired by then. he would only retire if trump were in the white house again. so there's an assumption there that trump wins the white house, and so that adds an additional layer of self-interest to all of these decisions he's deciding because he's thinking about impending retirement, amongst other things. >> i'm quite sure the moment trump is inaugurated they'll retire a day after that. this one is even more bizarre but more relevant since she's the one who samuel alito blamed for the various flags that flew at their home and vacation home. here she is talking about flags.

>> you know what i want? i want a sakeerate heart of jesus flag, because i have to look across the lagoon at the pride flag for the next month. >> exactly. >> and he's like, oh, please, don't put up a flag. i said i won't do it because i'm deferring to you, but when you're free of this nonsense, i'm putting it up and i'm going to send them a message every day, maybe every week i'll be changing the flags. i made a flag in my head, this is how i satisfy myself. i made a flag. it's white, and it's yellow and orange flames around it, and in the middle is the word in italian meaning shame. >> for those of you who did not hear that clearly, i'm going to reread this because you need to understand. this is mrs. samuel alito. you know what i want? i want a sacred hard of jesus flag because i have to look at the pride flag for the next month. oh, please don't put up a flag, and she's like, samuel alito, please don't put up a flag.

she said i won't do it because i'm deferring to you, but when you're free of this nonsense i'm going to put it up and send a message every day. they'll be all kinds. i made a flag in my head. i made a flag. it's white and it has yellow and orange flames around it. in the middle of it is the word vegonia. she emphasized that as an italian word that means shame. what were your immediate thoughts after hearing that? >> well, throughout this sort of rant, there was a lot of, you know, aggression and against the media, getting even. it felt like another instance of getting even, shame, shame, and at one point she talked about being german. i really had more of the impression that she was italian by the way she was talking about it. >> and she said i'm german and you just can't believe how much i can come at you and give more revenge. lauren windsor, congratulations. this is a huge scoop. perhaps your biggest yet.

thank you for bringing it to "the reidout." and we'll be right back. ack. ♪♪ ♪♪ ♪♪ chewy, a citi client, uses citi's financial expertise to help drive its growth and keep its supply chain moving, so more pet parents can get everything they need... right when they need it. keeping more pets, and families, happy. ♪♪ for the love of moving our clients forward. for the love of progress.

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who, like, really cherishes my faith, i just don't -- i don't know that we can negotiate with the left in the way that needs to happen for the polarization to end. i think that it's a matter of, like, winning.

>> i think you're probably right. on one side or the other. one side or the other is going to win. >> the man you just heard on that tape, supreme court justice samuel alito, has become one of the most strident political voices on the country's highest court. and before this latest court session is over, there's still a number of key decisions with far reaching implications that justice alito will weigh in on from abortion to guns to president trump's absurd immunity claim. joining me is barbara mcquade, an msnbc legal analyst, and melissa murray, nyu professor and msnbc legal analyst. i want to let you both react to that. i want to start with you, melissa, react and also imagine for a moment what the reaction would be if the justice that you clerked for, sonia sotomayor had said something similar on the other side. >> i thought lauren did a great job getting this footage.

it was alarming but certainly not surprising. anyone who has been reading justice alito's writings would not be surprised by some of the things he has said. what was surprised is he felt so free to be clear about his desire to return the country to a state of christian nationalism, if you will, and his sense that his moral view of the universe is the one that should hold sway, and your question is certainly a rhetorical one, a provocative one to some degree, but we know if justice sotomayor was saying things like this in a recorded conversation, there would be calls for her impeachment from the bench, and those calls would likely be from both sides of the aisle. that's what's missing today. we have plenty of democrats saying this is alarming and wrong, but no republicans with the courage to stand up and say this puts the court in a really terrible light. >> right, and barb, it feels like alito is unconstrained at this point. he doesn't care who knows that he wants to make the country into a christian nationalist, you know, ethno state or

whatever it is he thinks he would create under this handmaid's tale vision. he doesn't care if people know he takes lavish vacations and the right doesn't care. they care more about ketanji brown jackson getting beyonce ticket than clarence thomas getting $4 million in lucre. what does it mean for us that we know alito is essentially a fox host on the court? >> well, i think it's one of the reasons that the court finds itself in the state it's in today when public opinion of the court is at an all-time low. in the research for my book, attack from within, one of the things i looked into was healthy democracies and unhealthy democracies. and one of the hallmarks of a healthy democracy is something that's referred to as mutual tolerance and forbearance. some of what that means is you respect your political rivals. you respect the idea that other americans have views that are different from yours and that you forbear from using power

just because you can. let's not forget that all these cases that come before the court are cases they select. so it's not a coincidence that they are deciding cases that address abortion or religious liberty or guns. these are cases the justices are choosing to decide. if they wanted to exercise forbearance they could simply allow precedent to stand, and that overreach i think is what is causing so much problems with the public confidence in the court today. >> right, and melissa, just in reading through the litany of things alito has said in the past, he's criticized the warren court, the court that gave us all of the civil rights and women, people of color, immigrants, everything, the disabled, all of that came in the 20th century. you have now had clarence thomas question whether brown v. board went too far. this just tells me they're going to take a case to overturn brown v. board. what should we be expecting? we have decisions coming thursday and friday. my assumption is they make

mifepristone illegal and give trump absolute immunity. that's my guess because alito is saying that's the plan. >> i actually don't think the court is going to find that the fda's regulation was improper. i think they're going to punt that for lack of jurisdiction. but at oral argument, we heard justices thomas and alito both inviting new litigants to bring a better case before the court. a case with better litigants who are more clearly able to show an actual constitutional injury and therefore have jurisdiction. they're waiting for a better case because they know this case is probably not the one. but there is still also the question involving the emergency medical treatment and label act, and whether o tha stabilizing care to all patients even if it requires an abortion and if it conflicts with state in this case, it conflicts with

an idaho state law. that's where we're going to see alito's version of a moral universe come into play. i don't know if they would take a case that would overrule brown v. board of education, but that doesn't mean this court can't incrementally expand the window of what is possible and what is not possible in the short time that it has here. i think we're seeing that already. this court is moving steadily to the right, and even when it punts something on jurisdiction, it's still doing a lot of work to push this court in a rightward direction and push this country in a rightward direction. we have to keep our eyes on all of the balls. >> and push this country in a rightward direction against the will of most of the country. we now face a decision where the former president of the united states and aspirant to be president again met with his parole officer today. what does that mean for our republic, and what does that

normally entail? >> this is a routine interview that occurs after every conviction, whether it is by guilty plea or conviction after a jury trial. and this is where a probation officer who is an employee of the court works for the judge will ask a series of questions and prepare a report to the judge with recommendations. and don't be fooled by the name probation officer because it doesn't mean they're necessarily recommending probation. they will ask a number of questions that they will then go verify about employment history, substance abuse, addiction, problems in childhood, problems in schooling, good things and bad things about the character of the offender. and all of that will end up in a very detailed report that the judge will have when he decides to impose sentence. so that he has at his fingertips every detail about donald trump's life. >> well, i hope that the probation officer doesn't read

mary trump's book because she might put an ankle bracelet on him on the spot. barbara and melissa, thank you both very much. coming up, there former president seems increasingly disinclined to conceal his authoritarian side, claiming the january 6th insurrectionists are, get this, warriors. stay with us. get the rest of these plants in. organic soil from miracle-gro has grown me the best garden i have ever had. good soil, and you get good results. this soil will blow you away. it's the martha stewart of soil.

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and i think that the only way to put a stop to this, sadly, is for republican das to prosecute democratic office holders, democratic executive branch officials, hunter biden, maybe even joe biden. that's the only way i think to put a stop to this. otherwise, what we have seen is a crossing of a constitutional rubicon where suing presidential predecessors is going to just be the norm. >> you would be forgiven if you have forgotten john yu, the former justice department lawyer and principal author of what we call the torture memos justifying the george w. bush's administration's use of enhanced terrorism techniques. that john yu has become one of the strongest advocates making the case for revenge prosecutions against democrats. of course, trump also speaks about retribution and revenge nearly every time he's in front of a microphone. >> based on what they have done, i would have every right to go after them. >> it's a terrible, terrible

path that they're leading us to. and it's very possible that it's going to have to happen to them. >> i know a lot of republicans who want retribution. they want to do that, we're going to see what happens. >> revenge does take time. sometimes revenge can be identified. >> when donald trump floats this idea of prosecuting democrats it's not for anything remotely legitimate. in the media, the story tends to be framed as follows. will trump seek revenge for his legal treveils or won't he? that framing unwittingly lets trump set the terms of this debate. it implies he's vowing to do to democrats what was done to him, but that's not what trump is actually threatening. whereas trump is being prosecuted on evidence that law enforcement gathered before asking grand juries to indict him, he's declaring he will prosecute president biden and democrats solely because this is what he endured meaning

explicitly evidence will not be the initiating impulse. in other words, he'll just make some things up. we already know his plans for vengeance can work since it's his leave behinds at the department of justice who are prosecuting the president's son for crimes that would likely never have been charged if his last name wasn't biden. just as it was trump's prosecutors who indicted marilyn mosby after trump called for her to indict herself for pursuing cases against the cops who killed freddie gray and who interfered in the federal prosecutor of michael cohen in the hush many election interference case to keep trump out of it and later tried to force cohen to sign an agreement written specifically for him, barring him from writing a book or posting to social media, effectively stripping his first amendment rights and then throwing him back in prison when he refused to sign it. here's what cohen told ali velshi over the weekend. >> there is no opinion here. there is no that i'm thinking about it. the documents speak for

themselves. it is plain and simple that what he has done, he intends to do again. and he is telling you in advance what he intends to do. you're not safe, guys like bezos or elon musk, they think they're safe. no, trump wants total power over the united states of america. >> and we should take trump literally and seriously because imagine what his leave behinds in the justice department could do if the agency falls back under trump's control as president. it all comes at a time when europe is having its own maga moment of sorts after major gains for the far right in elections for the european parliament over the weekend. meanwhile, trump took his revenge tour to nevada over the weekend, where he found a new way to praise the individuals who attempted to violently overthrough our democracy on january 6th 2021. upgrading the insurrectionists from hostages to warriors. and claiming that the whole event was a setup just like his

looniest conspiracy theory supporter believe. in the meantime, his team is already preconsolidating its efforts to make election denial, expansion of presidential power, and christian nationalism fully part of the republican party platform. we'll discuss that with our friend charlie sykes next. why would i use kayak to compare hundreds of travel sites at once? i like to do things myself. i can't trust anything else to do the job right. kayak... aaaaaaaahhhh kayak. search one and done.

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to pay attention to the cast of characters team maga is putting together. they have hired a prominent stop the steal advocate to craft its platform, ed martin, a former chair of the missouri republican party who marched outside the capitol onanuary 6th. another platform hire is a key figure behind the heritage foundation's project 2025. a draconian playbook for a second term. russ vout is a self proclaimed christian nationalist who is pushing a vision for a second term, he promotes prosecuting officials who investigated the president and his allies. it can't just be hearings. it has to be investigations, an army of investigators that lead to firm convictions. i'm joined now by charlie sykes. i think it's important when we hear someone saying they want investigations and convictions, our response should be

investigations into what. there aren't crimes to investigate. they're just going to make them up. >> donald trump has been talking about this for months now as you pointed out. i think there might be a tendency to say that's just donald trump. that's his own personal obsession. but i think what you have to notice is two things. number one, that he's created a constituency within the republican party for this, and perhaps an infrastructure as well. personnel is often policy. i think this is why you need to take all of these threats deadly seriously because in trump 2.0, he will surround himself with people like you have identified, who are more than willing to do his bidding, whatever the underlying evidence is. so this is one of those cases where donald trump is explicitly telling us what he's going to do, and the republican party and the conservative movement is falling into line in rather extraordinary way, and then creating the intellectual and

perhaps the legal infrastructure to carry it out. this again is not taking literally or seriously, you have to take them both. >> you do have in the republican base, and it is a small sort of of the 300 million americans, a relatively small group of people, but they're adamant in they hate barack obama, they hate hillary clinton, they hate joe biden and his family, they want to see show trials. they just want to see them dragged off to prison for whatever. and now, as you said, the only reason he didn't lock up hillary clinton or try to the first time is there was still normals inside the doj who said you can't just lock people up. you have to have a crime, but now they wouldn't need that, and they would have a supreme court that would be like, whatever you want, man. >> i hope that's not the case, but he's testing it. >> don't you think they would. >> interesting how brazen trump is and how brazen his supporters are saying, yeah, this is what we're going to do. this is how we will use our

power. i have to say that listening to donald trump, there's a lot of policies he's been throwing out that are controversial, but there's nothing that i think he's more passionate about or that the base, the folks who show up at the rallies are more passionate about than locking them up. people need to take this seriously, and you made the point, his affinity for the european right, the often nakedly authoritarian european right like viktor orban in hungary, again is not a secret. he actually now has taken american conservatism, which was always very distinctive and different from european right wing politics and basically saying, hey, we're all rolling in the same direction now. >> absolutely. i want to play a piece of sound. to me, it gets to the heart of the other piece which is donald trump doesn't care about defending the country. he won't defend the capitol. here's new video we had not seen yet from january 6th, 2021. this is the speaker of the

house, the then speaker nancy pelosi and chuck schumer, the leader in the senate, desperately trying to call for help. >> you ask me in the middle of the thing when they have already breached the inaugural stuff that should we call the capitol police? i mean, the national guard. why weren't the national guard there to begin with? >> mccarthy and senator schumer, do you know what's going on? okay, d.c. has requested the national guard. and it's been denied by dod. i would like to know a good reason why it's been denied. >> lies that donald trump tells at these rallies is it was nancy pelosi who refused to call the national guard. you heard her begging for some help, and the police let the insurrectionists in. this is literally the top two democrats calling for help and none arrived because trump wouldn't let them. >> donald trump is 100% now

committed to his revisionist history of all this. look, two things. a lot of republicans would always say, why are you people so obsessed with january 6th? no one is more obsessed with january 6th right now than donald trump. and the fact is he's escalating, calling them, and by the way, you notice the way he described them. he said they're warriors bus they're also victims. this is this interesting maga two-step here, these are these warriors for freedom, but you and i are all victims of this deep state. i think most republican elected officials would rather he not talk about it, would rather people forgot about. you put january 6th in the memory hole, but donald trump is putting it front and center in his campaign. the fact that he is now applauding the attempted overthrow of the election, the attack on the capitol, the attack on the police officers. he's also made it very clear that he would use his power to pardon many of these individuals. now, again, a weird position for the party of law and order that

the president, the former president is suggesting that he might actually get out of jail free cards to people who beaten and tased police officers, more than 160 officers were attacked that day. and donald trump has the back of the people that attacked those cops. >> yeah, and then they claim to back the blue. charlie sykes, always a pleasure. thank you. before we go to break, today we received a sad news that the reverend james lawson jr., a towering icon of the civil rights movement has died at 95 years of age. known as an apostle of the nonviolent protest and dear friend of martin luther king jr., lawson traveled to india where he studied the principles of civil disobedience. lawson put his beliefs into practice in the segregated american south, kulthing workshops on nonviolent protests for king's newly formed southern leadership conference, leading

workshops in nashville, tennessee, that helped prepare john lewis, marion barry, and other freedom riders to withstand their responses. lawson spent decades working as a pastor, labor organizers and university professor. it was his life's mission to preach the power of nonsilence direct action. a legacy that lives on as the fight continues. . get leaffilter. it's as easy as one, two, three. call or click today. get your free gutter inspection on your schedule and get leaffilter installed in as little as a few hours. you'll never have to clean out your gutters again, guaranteed. get leaf filter today. call 833 leaffilter or go to leaffilter.com as easy as 1, 2, 3

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there is continuing fallout from a israeli hostage rescue that led to one of the bloodiest days in the war against hamas. the surprise raid reunited people with their families sparking emotional relief. the operation to free them came at a brutal cost. in the refugee camp, palestinian families mourned after 274 people, including dozens of children, were killed during the raid. here, you see one of the most dramatic and deadly days of the war. carnage, a bloodbath, dunes day. leaving the camp scattered with charred bodies and rescuers carrying mangled and bloodsoaked children into overwhelmed hospitals. gazans also said idf entered the camp using an aid truck.

the idf denies that. antony blinken is back in the region for negotiations today. his eighth visit since october 7th attack. it is a visit complicated by israel's massive aerial assault as well as the resignation of the member of the israel war cabinet, retired general benny gantz. benny gantz accused benjamin netanyahu of dismantling the war and refusing to agree on what will happen to gaza after the hostilities end. joining me is the senior diplomatic correspondent for the huffington post. always a pleasure. let's talk about this. the raid was cheered. as a video people cheering after great turn of the hostages. but on the other side of the line in gaza, absolute horror and a lot of dead people. what is the latest and what is going on? >> i think what we know from the raid is it these four people were brought home and it

was huge happiness. one person was reunited with her children and her mother. this is not the way to bring home dozens of americans that are still hostages. that is why negotiations are the key factor. however, right now the biden administration is not using its leverage over israel. we have seen consistently these pushes from the administration to say, we have this israeli approved cease-fire deal and israeli fighters saying, we are not in agreement. kind of an impasse right now. people already living in horrifying conditions. >> you have antony blinken insisting to my friend and colleague today that is hamas holding up the deal. but netanyahu said, i don't like the deal and i'm not doing the deal so that is very strange. then you have this new recording

that they are now considering going around netanyahu and negotiating directly with hamas to try to gain the freedom of the approximately 9 million american citizens being held hostage. is that something that seems to be a real thing? if the u.s. said israel is the one cooperating, why will they go around them and go right to hamas israeli, it is a great point. it shows they are not on the same page. i have talked to people on the ground. the impression globally is that, why is the honest u.s. unable to get this to the point to agree on a deal that serves u.s. interest in everyone's interest? it is making the biden administration look hugely weak . i think that if there is

some kind of side deal, that only underscores this impression that realistically, where is america and relations to its courses -- to its closest partner in the middle east. we have not seen anything on that. instead, we see shifts to attempt to move the headlines. when your closest partner is not there yet, that does not create an impression that it is sincerely coming from the u.s. which is boosting the sense of western hypocrisy regarding the situation in gaza. >> and has full and the militant group out of lebanon is saying that they shut down an israeli over lebanon. is this war expanding into lebanon? i know there are some of the far right that will like to eat up pieces of lebanon. >> i have been hearing this from my sources in the intelligence community for months. it has increased in recent

weeks. the israelis want a campaign. with lebanon even with yemen, we have seen the increased tensions. deploying troops and naval forces. none of that will stop until there is a cease-fire in gaza.'s almost there is a line drawn, diplomacy on any of these friends continue. the biden administration's credit has been cleared. they don't want to see a war but it is not up to them as we have seen with the israelis on the hostage cease-fire deal as well. so i think the risk is extremely high. and lebanon is the war of another magnitude. >> thank you so much. .