jury that a jury of your peers will make a determination. they will take the evidence that's in the courtroom, nothing outside of that, and apply the law. it's not left to a single individual to determine someone's fate. it's a jury of your peers. it's the system that ensures justice for all, no matter who you are. >> yeah. again, you can see that in other countries, but the level in which in this country one has the right to have a trial by jury is just so unique and it's so special. i want to thank claire and chuck and misty and our other guests, jeff, ken. so many of you that were with us this hour. i thank you for the privilege of your time. that wraps up this hour. ana cabrera picks up more coverage right now.

it's noon eastern. i'm ana cabrera in for andrea mitchell. breaking news from the hunter biden trial. the jury in the hunter biden felony gun trial has reached a guilty verdict on all three counts after nearly three hours of deliberations. this is the first trial of a child of a sitting president in u.s. history. president biden's son now facing potential jail time. he has no prior criminal history. he did not commit a crime with a gun, which prosecutors say he purchased illegally when he allegedly lied about not being an addict. notably, four members of the jury have close friends or family who have struggled with drug and alcohol addiction. again, unanimous guilty verdict. joining us now, nbc justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. we just got a statement from president biden. fill us in.

>> reporter: that's right. president biden has reiterated some of what he said during the trial. i want to read the statement. as i said last week, i am the president, but also a dad. jill and i love our son, and we are so proud of the man he is today. he adds, so many families who have had loved ones battle addiction understand the feeling of pride seeing someone you love come out the other side and be so strong and resilient in recovery. mr. biden added, as i also said, i will accept the outcome and will respect the judicial process as hunter considers an appeal. jill and i will always be there for hunter and the rest of our family with our love and support. he finishes, nothing will ever change that. it's important to add that president biden said he would not pardon his son, hunter biden, now convicted of three felonies. it's just important to note that this was the u.s. justice department, part of the biden administration, that convicted

the son of the sitting president, without interference from the white house or the president. merrick garland, the attorney general, an independent attorney general, who has earned the ire of the white house for certain decisions, appointed special counsel who had been a donald trump appointed counselor. they presented evidence that hunter biden was using drugs and illegally purchased a firearm. the jury returned a verdict within three hours of deliberation, sooner than many people thought. there was some speculation perhaps hunter biden's team was appealing tie hung jury, trying to find one juror sympathetic. that was not what happened. they may have been sympathetic, but they saw that the evidence was overwhelming in this case

that he violated the law. they didn't get to hear the context of a charge that is rarely brought as a standalone case, as many legal experts have said. for that reason, it may be unlikely he serves jail time. it's important because this case may never have happened had not a plea agreement that hunter biden reached with the special counsel a year ago had not that agreement collapsed, first in open court and then behind the scenes in plea negotiations that failed, because hunter biden's team was not satisfied with the level of immunity that they were offered by the justice department. in retrospect, that seems like a questionable decision, because now hunter biden stands convicted of felonies, and he is facing another trial in september on tax charges. >> ken, what is the time line now when it comes to his potential punishment on these convictions? what are we looking at on the sentencing front?

>> reporter: as you saw, he walked out of cour. the judge will schedule a sentencing hearing at a later date. usually that comes two to three months from the time of conviction. in the meantime, he will undergo an interview by the federal probation office. they will delve into many, many issues, including the extent of his remorse and his acknowledgement of guilt, which may be complicated by the fact he is considering an appeal in this case. then the judge will at the sentencing will pass sentence. as we have been telling you, the maximum is ten years in prison. that is not -- that would be extraordinary if that was applied in this case. that's not likely to happen here. in fact, our legal analyst has said his calculation is that federal sentencing guidelines would call for a year in prison,

in this case, but given that -- the particular context that he has no criminal record, this is rarely brought as a standalone, the judge may go below that. there may not be prison time. a lot of discretion is given to this federal judge, a donald trump appointee, who is the one who raised questions about the initial plea deal which led us here to begin with. >> so much to tick through. thank you so much for bringing us that. let's bring in laura jarrett, lisa rubin, catherine christian. thank you all for joining us on this breaking news day. lisa, give me your reaction to the guilty verdict on all three counts. >> it's not a surprise. yet, there's something unbelievably tragic about the entire trajectory of the case. not only is hunter biden who is someone who publicly struggled with addiction, but the way in which the charges came about was

through the finding of the gun, 11 days after he purchased it, the gun was tossed by his then girlfriend and sister-in-law, the widow of beau, in a trash can. when he realized that's where his gun had gone, he immediately took steps for it to be retrieved. that ultimately led to the charges at issue here. let's think about the plea deal and how it unraveled. hunter biden had a diversion agreement on gun charges and a deferred prosecution on tax charges that were interwoven together. the reason it fell apart is because the judge, who presided over this trial, said it wasn't appropriate for her to be the person in the first instance to determine whether hunter was in compliance with the diversion agreement. prosecutors and hunter biden's lawyer both wanted that. why? for reasons that were unspoken, because there was a fear that if joe biden were not re-elected

and former president trump were to be elected, a republican led department of justice could seek to find him in non-compliance with the deal. that's why they wanted the judge to supervise it. she said, that's not my job. that's how it fell apart. that's what led to today's indictment and then trial and, of course, conviction. not at all surprising, but still nonetheless, a real tragedy. >> a lot has been said about how unusual this case was. the fact that hunter biden had this gun for 11 days, never fired it, it wasn't used to carry out another crime of some sort. what's your big takeaway with this verdict today and where we are? >> exactly what lisa said. a year ago, the same prosecutors were offering him a diversion program for two years and then charges dismissed. i think it would be an outrage if a year later, it's called the trial penalty, he will be penalized for going to trial and

get incarceration. he is a very sad figure, as are many people throughout this country, and he will now be, when he is sentenced, a convicted felon. there's no need to incarcerate him. he will -- he should get the same diversion program. once an addict, always an addict. i'm assuming he is in recovery. it will help him. that's the sad part is that he went to trial. it would have been a miracle if there was an acquittal. it would have been the jury doing nullification, saying we are sympathetic to him, which you are not supposed to do. but some do that. it's not an unfair verdict. they followed the law. but it's a sad verdict. >> laura, ken outlined what's next. as you look at the picture, what is point a to point b? what does that look like? what does this verdict now mean for hunter biden? >> he is in more legal jeopardy coming in a few months in

september on the heels of the november election. he is facing nine counts for tax related charges, including tax evasion and filing a false return. didn't pay his taxes to the tune of $1.4 million on time. his attorneys will tell you, they paid it all back. legally, doesn't matter. he is still facing serious jeopardies there. all of which would have gone away if he had been able to secure this plea deal. his lawyes and the prosecutors were not at a meeting of the minds. he thought it would be universal. prosecutors said, not so fast. the judge said, are you sure you understand what you are pleading guilty to? he did not understand. it all fell apart. he is going to face this other trial. he can plead guilty today to those charges. >> he could still go forward with a plea deal? >> you have an obligation to present that to him. seeing how this went today, he

needs to think through whether he needs to plead guilty to those charges. i'm not suggesting he should. i'm not suggesting he will. his lawyers are going to council him seriously about whether he needs to have a plea as it relates to the charges in september. all of this is going to come out. if we think the evidence was bad in this trial, wait until september where they will hear about all the things he was spending money on, not his taxes. >> stay with us. let me bring in fbi -- former fbi general counsel andrew weissmann. was there anything hunter biden's attorneys could have done differently that might have made their defense stronger? >> no. the facts here were very strong for the state. i think that basically this was a case where they had to hope for jury nullification. i think that what you are seeing today and what we saw in new york in connection with the trump criminal case is jurors

doing their job. it's a testament to our jury system and to the rule of law in this country that in both situations jurors heard the facts, they weighed credibility, and made decisions, and it didn't matter if you are dealing with a former president of the united states for what is obviously a far more serious crime, or you are dealing with the son of the president. these are jurors who did their duty and the rule of law held in both situations. as to what hunter biden's lawyer could do here or could do in the tax case, i completely agree with laura that the tax case will have very salacious facts. it remains to be seen if there's a better defense to those charges. it's a little bit of a question

for me as to why in connection with this gun charge these three gun charges here, why there wasn't a plea worked out at least with respect to these charges. i know that there's going to be a challenge to the constitutionality of the statutes. it may be that's the reason hunter biden didn't just plead straight up to the indictment. the facts here were truly overwhelming. it's not surprising that he was convicted. i don't think it would be surprising to his experienced defense lawyer or to hunter biden himself. >> let's bring in former u.s. attorney joyce vance. what factors will be considered in determining his punishment? >> i think ken said earlier that the statutory maximum sentence the law prescribes here is ten years. as we know in the federal system, sentencing is conducted

under united states sentencing guidelines. those ranges are much lower. it's always tough to figure out a precise calculation in advance. here, hunter biden has no prior criminal history. he may end in a range where the judge looks at between six and 12 months. that could lead to probation. lots of factors still to be determined here. this is not the sort of a crime where hunter biden is looking at five or ten years in prison. >> stay with us. let me turn to our white house correspondent mike memoli in wilmington. mike, i gotta wonder how this is all weighing on hunter biden's family. what do you know? >> reporter: yeah. i think there's been so much discussion already, as is to be expected in a campaign year, about what the political impact might be. having covered the biden family

for -- into my third decade, doing so, that's first and foremost what i'm thinking of, seeing the emotion on his family members' faces. i was outside after the verdict was issued. to see dr. jill biden, the verdict came in so quickly, she couldn't make it in time. she went to join her son in the hold room before they left together to head back to their home. then the president, who we expect to hear from, he is scheduled to give a speech this afternoon, he indicated in the new statement that he continues, as he has been throughout this process, to be proud of his son. he did not want to weigh in on an ongoing legal battle. he linked it to the fact that so many families have been through a similar situation, seeing a loved one struggle with addiction. think about the fact that this president has said he will not pardon his son. that's the one power he has as president that could spare him. he is choosing not to do so. it speaks to the struggle that

this president has and so many as they approached this trial to know -- many of them believe this, that if joe biden had not run for president, decided to do that five years ago, had he not been elected president four years ago that hunter may not be in this situation. now the president and his family here in delaware have to grapple with what's next. >> mike, we know family members have been in court throughout this trial. including the first lady, jill biden, who was there, i think, five days of the trial. we know his half sister has been there along with other members and family and friends, the extended biden family. what was their reaction as this verdict was read? >> reporter: the striking thing was how so many of them -- i was in an elevator with hunter biden's uncle and one of his closest friends trying to race to the courtroom to be there. we did not arrive in time. it was notable yesterday when

this case went to the jury, both sides, the prosecution team as well as hunter biden, his team and some of the close friends and family i was speaking to were expressing optimism. they were hopeful for the best outcome here, if not a mixed outcome, potentially a hung jury. i think the reality of this moment is going to land with significant impact. hunter biden himself as that verdict was read looked ahead stoically. he showed no sign of emotion. his aunt, who has run her brother's campaigns over the years, she emerged from the courtroom definitely seeming shocked by this moment. the first lady was wearing sunglasses inside as she went to join her son here as well. this is something that i think is going to bring more of this network of friends and support system in this small political state around the biden family. i was in the state capital in 2015, one of the most searing

memories i have, watching as the entire biden family, then vice president biden at the front of the line, standing by his son beau's casket for more than five hours as ordinary people but also dignitaries filed past to pay their respects and to pay their respects to the family. this is a very different situation. the concern for hunter's well-being is first and foremost according to people i have spoken with. his sobriety is an ongoing journey. addiction is something you live with your whole life. that's another part of why we saw this blanket of support around hunter biden at this very difficult moment. >> to try to lift him up and help keep him together, i'm sure. part of the thinking there, mike, thank you. let's bring in chuck todd. president biden was asked about this case before the verdict and how he planned to handle whatever the outcome was. let's watch.

>> will you accept the jury's outcome, their verdict, in matter what it is? >> yes. >> have you ruled out a pardon for your son? >> yes. >> he didn't waiver there. what do you make of that, of him saying, he will not pardon hunter biden, before knowing his son would be found guilty? >> i will be honest, the interviewer in me, what about commute a sentence. but that's a technicality. it would undermine his rhetoric about the democracy and the rule of law if he somehow went another way. i think when you look at this case -- i go back to something mike memoli said, you can't help but wonder here, a decision that the biden family made to run for president because this is part of the fallout for running for president. they knew in '18 and '19 what

was going on in the family, how tumultuous things were. the family was still recovering from beau's death. there's no doubt, it's hard to imagine this trial happens if biden is not president of the united states on this front. there's a part of me that can't sort of detether the situation from that. politically, this is a big blow to trump. that's if you look for political fallout, he is trying so hard to create this weaponization -- this has been a republican talking point for so long. there's never been evidence to support what they have said. now, this is -- not just no evidence to support, this is evidence to refute all of these clais of jim jordan and others that didn't exist. in that sense, i think it sort of -- whether trump still uses

his grievance -- his various grievances to go after the justice system, considering he has his own battles with them, doesn't matter. i don't think this is going to be -- if they are hoping this persuades people in the middle, i don't think trump's argument about the justice system is persuasive in the wake of this. in that sense, it really damages the trump campaign's ability to waive away the conviction. >> it's interesting, because we are getting reaction from trump world. one of his advisors, stephen miller, is spinning today's conviction this way, saying that the doj is running election interference for joe biden and that's why the doj did not charge hunter with being an unregistered foreign agent. they are saying this wasn't far enough. that's the spin they're putting on this. >> look, when you go down a rationalization road, you have

to continue with it, even if the facts don't support it. this is how they have been trying to frame this. we could go on and on. merrick garland's decision not to investigate the former president for the first year and a half that he was there, i think, created the political perception problems that the justice department is facing. all of these, the special counsels -- there might not have been either had merrick garland started sooner. he almost allowed for the political calendar to become a weapon and a talking point by trump, which on one hand there isn't a lot of evidence of that. but because of the way merrick garland dragged his feet on the january 6 investigation in particular, he sort of allowed this and trump with his early announcement for president knew how the justice department worked, knew it was going to create a special counsel which then only was going to

politicize everything. he had no choice but to name a special counsel for hunter biden. i think we do need to take a step back and realize the slow walking of merrick garland's justice department in the january 6 i think created this crisis -- this perceived crisis of confidence that trump and people like stephen miller have been able to take advantage of because of how delayed everything was and the political calendar trump essentially used as a weapon knowing what the justice department was going to be forced to do given the timing of that. >> we heard the statement from the president at the top of the hour. ken dilanian reading it for us. this is directly from president biden. saying, jill and i will always be there for hunter. nothing will ever change that. he is able to react in that way. in the same statement, he is saying he is going to respect

the rule of law. he is going to respect the judicial process, he says, as hunter considers an appeal. what kind of difficult position is president biden in given he is trying to keep the justice department and its investigations, these convictions of hunter biden, of donald trump, at arm's length so that it can't be used against him to say that he is meddling in the justice department in some way, but at the same time, he is leaving this hole wide open when it comes to a big part of this campaign, is he not? >> look, he chose to run for president. he chose to put the country before his family. many people may not like hearing the way i just framed that statement, but that's a fact. when you choose to run for president, you do this. if he allows personal feeling and all that to get in the way, then he is compromising, i would

argue, the pact he made with american voters by deciding to run for president, which is you put the rule of law, the country, no matter what else is at stake here. in that sense, i don't know if there's any -- i'm sure it's personally very, very difficult. i empathize with him as a parent in ways -- i don't think you ever get over watching a child die before you. my grandfather, unfortunately, had to experience that with my father. he never got over it. he lived six years longer than my father. my father was a fully grown adult, it didn't matter. he never got over it. i don't think you ever get over the trauma of losing a child. i get the entire personal aspect of this. he chose to run for president. he really has no choice but to set his personal feelings aside here. >> chuck todd, thank you very much. i want to go back to mike

memoli, who just got the statement from hunter biden's attorney. what is he saying? >> reporter: as well, a statement from hunter biden himself. let me read both. hunter says, i'm more grateful today for the love and support i experienced this last week from melissa, his wife, my family, my friends and my community than i am disappointed by the outcome. recovery is possible by the grace of god. i'm blessed to experience that one day at a time. the statement from his attorney, which says, we are naturally disappointed by today's verdict. we respect the jury process and as we have done throughout this case, we will continue to vigorously pursue all the legal challenges available to hunter through all he has been through in his recovery, including this trial, hunter has felt grateful for and blessed by the love and support of his family. one question we have is whether we might hear in person from this legal team or the prosecutors. there's been no indication of

that. this initial statement from hunter does not indicate that an appeal is imminent. we did see president biden's statement make reference to that possibility. just to remind, there's a second trial that's on the books in september in los angeles on the second set of charges that was originally part of the plea agreement having to deal with tax evasion. that could be another difficult moment for the family as it will deal with sources of income, it will deal with potentially how he spent that money during the same time period. we have seen how difficult it was for family members to testify against one another in this case. that's another trial looming on the horizon. >> mike memoli, keep us posted as we get more information from the hunter biden legal team and family as well. i want to bring back our legal panel who is here with me. laura, your thoughts on what we heard as they talk about

pursuing all legal paths. >> they are limited. he will not have sein ten sente tomorrow. he will sit down for an interview like we just saw with the former president with probation. probation department's going to recommend their own sentence. it's up to the judge to decide. it's within her discretion. she will have the guidelines to guide her in that endeavor. this won't take -- this will take quite a while to happen. roughly, 120 days typically for sentencing. only then, once the sentencing is complete, can they actually do the appeal. that sometimes happens 30 days after the sentencing is complete. this is happening in the fall, in the heat of the election, the timing could not be more stark, obviously, for political and

legal reasons, as mike outlined. he does have this tax case looming over him, which arguably is very serious, in some ways more serious than what he was facing here, on the gun charges, as the gun was never used,' we -- as we talked about. >> there's always an appeal, when your client is convicted after trial, particularly if you have resources, you are going to appeal. you will go through the whole record and find an issue, even if it was ineffective counsel, which isn't here. it's very -- looking back, it was very smart that hunter biden did not testify. they can't use -- i don't flow -- know what he would have testified to, they could use that against him.

they will argue for non-incarceration. >> one thing andrew weissmann brought up was the supreme court looking at gun rights cases and whether that could influence the verdict. >> there's a case that's been percolating that deals with this exact issue, whether the question on that alcohol -- the atf form that's required by anybody applying for a firearm is, in fact, a question that can be asked and squared with a defendant's second amendment rights, does the federal government have the right to ask about drug use? that's a case that's winding through federal court right now. if i'm hunter biden's lawyer, i'm trying to take advantage of that. some of the other things that might by right for appeal are some of the evidentiary decisions made by the judge. she precluded use of the actual form because after the fact that there was some writing on the form. that was something hunter biden's lawyers very much wanted

to show to the jury. there's also a question of whether or not they were erroneously precluded from offering testimony from an addiction specialist who would have tried to convince the jury that when hunter filled to ut -- filled out that form, that was not a knowing falsification. that may be subject of the appeal as well. >> andrew, when you look at the other arguments, hunter biden's attorneys tried to make prior to the trial, like selective prosecution, is that something they could go back to on appeal as well? >> yes, they can try to argue selective prosecution. that's a long shot. remember, defense lawyers have a different burden. they have a different aim. i don't fault whether it's hunter biden's defense counsel

or donald trump's defense counsel, they are entitled to make all sorts of arguments, as long as they are not made in bad faith. i think the argument that has the most -- the one if i were a fly on the wall of the defense team, the one that they are probably thinking is their best shot is really the constitutional challenge. there's this very large conservative movement to roll back federal statutes, including federal criminal statutes, including the ones at issue here, saying that they improperly infringe on the second amendment. amy coney barrett, famously took that position in connection with an analogous federal gun statute when she was on the court of appeals. as lisa correctly said, this issue is winding its way up to

the supreme court. it certainly will be one of the grounds that hunter biden raises. what he is saying is not that i didn't do this. he is saying, if this statute itself is unconstitutional and his allies kind of ironically are going to be conservative jurists who take that view that that is a pro second amendment view. >> what else are you watching, joyce, in terms of where this case goes next? >> i think andrew and lisa and catherine have identified the most important parts here. we will look first for the sentencing and to see where the judge lands, whether it's a custodial sentence or not. second, there will be the issue of whether or not hunter biden gets an appeal bond. the standard in the federal system is that defendants must be taken into custody or shall be taken into custody once they are convicted, unless they have

a significant issue for appeal and a substantial chance of success. here because of the second amendment issue that lisa and andrew have been discussing, it's very likely that hunter biden gets that appeal bond while the appeal is underway. then the third thing that we will look for is, what are the arguments that they make on appeal? i think we will see the selective and vindictive prosecution arguments re-visited. they are a little stronger here than in the typical case, just because there's so much data suggesting that federal prosecutors very rarely charge the portion of this statute as it applies to an addict or a user in possession. you can only imagine how many potential cases that would be, how many people in the country use drugs and have a firearm. typically, this statute is applied to people with a prior felony conviction. i agree with andrew that that's not the strongest of arguments. this appeal will largely be about the second amendment

issue. finally, we will look ahead to the september trial on tax issues and see whether there's a plea in advance of that case or not. one of the significant factors there is that if hunter biden is convicted on the tax charges and is sentenced a second time, he will be sentenced with prior criminal history, with the conviction in this case behind him. that means he will look at a more elevated sentence if he is guilty or pleads. >> thank you all. we will take a quick break. more of our breaking news when we come back. be smelling fresh all day long. [sniff] still fresh. ♪♪ get 6x longer-lasting freshness, plus odor protection. try for under $5!

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we are back with breaking news that hunter biden, the president's son, has been found guilty on all counts in his federal gun trial. nbc's white house correspondent aaron gilcrist joins us. let's look ahead to what we expect to see and hear from the president at a campaign event focusing on guns. >> reporter: the president in the last week, that his son has been going through this trial, has sealtried to focus on doing work of the presidency and the work of re-election, winning office again. we know that he went to france to participate in the d-day events there. today, his schedule called for him to meet with the vice president before leaving to

travel to a gun safety event here in washington at a hotel not far from the white house. at that event, we will look to see if the president does make any mention of his son. it's worth noting, it's probably unlikely. he has not spoken on camera about any of what's been going on over the last several months since his son was indicted and we don't expect he will do much of that today. he did do an interview last week and was asked about hunter. he gave yes as a response to the question about whether he had ruled out pardoning his son, not giving any explanation. today, we expect him to talk about the work that his administration has done to reduce crime and to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people. the white house told us the president will talk about the work that the bipartisan safer communities act has been able to do to help local and state law enforcement increase their numbers, their ranks and to do training around proper policing

tactics and community violence prevention as well. we expect to hear the president call on congress to do more. he will make note of all the administration has done in his view to make communities safer and then still call on congress to enact laws that speak to universal background checks and banning assault weapons as well. as i said, of course, we will listen to see if the president directly or indirectly says anything about his case that his son has been found guilty of. >> a statement saying how much he loves his son, how proud he is of the man he is today. thank you, aaron. dasha burns is joining us. any reaction from the trump campaign to the conviction of hunter biden? >>. >> reporter: moments ago, we got a reaction from the trump campaign in an email saying the trial has been nothing more than a distraction from the real crimes of the biden crime family, which has raked in tens of millions of dollars.

that's coming from the trump campaign national press secretary. i have to say, the reaction from trump world more broadly has really been kind of all over the place. one republican source strategist telling our colleague that this slows the momentum and the argument the trump campaign had about biden's weaponization of the justice system, saying it is less of a bumper sticker now, another saying it won't matter a ton, but it does undercut the argument of a two-tiered system. kash patel saying that this guilty verdict is a rare example of constitutional justice and demonstrates a fleeting moment of justice for all. alex pfeifer, who is behind maga

inc. for the trump campaign saying that the evidence that led to a guilty verdict came from the same laptop that's driving hunter's tax fraud case on the money he made from foreign business deals. basically saying this is the first step and a lot more is to come. not a singular coherent message from trump world. a lot of republicans saying, this is a second amendment issue that hunter should not have been charged when it comes to the gun charge. a lot of perspectives, not necessarily a unified message from the gop on this just yet. >> that's interesting. dasha, thank you. let's get more about the political analysis on this verdict from eugene daniels, white house correspondent, and sabrina siddiqui, reporter for "the wall street journal." eugene, what does this mean for the 2024 campaign? do you see this having an impact? >> one thing that's been kind of

clear is a lot of this feels baked in for a long time. i think we don't know. what we have seen in polling is that voters have seen hunter's issues as hunter's issues. you have this attempt by republicans to tie what hunter biden -- his foreign business dealings, this case, to president biden. they have been unable to do that. they have admitted that. especially convincing voters of that. it's unlikely to blow back on president biden. that's exactly how folks in the white house feel, folks in the biden campaign and biden world feel at this moment. this is a volatile election. anything can change a couple of voters' minds. with that said, most voters' minds in this election, in this world we live in, are made up. it's hard to find voters who don't already have a feeling about joe biden, despite his son, and donald trump, despite

his own convictions. those kinds of things may happen on the edges, but it's not -- it doesn't seem like it's going to have a huge swath of changes to this election. >> i wonder if it could give joe biden a boost of people feeling some kind of empathy related to his situation. we have talked about how so many families experience the impacts of drug addiction. right? or alcoholism. they may find some, i guess, shared feeling or emotion when it comes to this particular issue and this verdict. we have talked about how republicans continue to claim there's this two-tiered justice system, and how does that argument square with what just happened today? >> as you point out, this is a deeply personal issue for president biden as he seeks re-election. in his written statement, reacting to the verdict, he did

talk about how so many families have loved ones who have battled addiction. he and the first lady jill biden stand by their son. they're so proud of his journey as he has gone through recovery. there are american families who will empathize with that. to your other point, republicans are clearly trying to use this as a counterattack to the criminal charges against former president trump. there's an obvious difference between the charges against trump, the former president who is on the ballot, who is seeking a return to the white house and was convicted in the hush money trial, and the charges against hunter biden who is a private citizen. he has not held any role in his father's administration. i think that's part of why you haven't seen as much movement in the polls when it comes to hunter and these legal challenges that he has faced. what we have seen in the polling more broadly is that a majority of americans say that the hunter

biden verdict -- they said this prior to the verdict it would not impact their vote in november. among the percentage of voters who did say that they would be less likely to vote for president biden based on his son's legal problems, most of those were republicans. there's a question as to whether or not they would have voted for president biden either way. of course, it's a challenging issue for the president. it does take away from the issues he wants to focus on. i think that probably he will speak to it mostly in a personal capacity as a father. we have seen him be careful not to weigh in on the justice system itself in a bid to draw a contrast with his opponent trump. >> sabrina, good to see you. thank you. thanks to eugene as well. we will squeeze in another quick break. don't go far. we are back on the other side with much more of our continued coverage, the breaking news, hunter biden found guilty on all three counts in his federal gun trial. indigestion iberogast bloating iberogast thanks to a unique combination of herbs,

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we continue to follow the breaking news. hunter biden found guilty on three gun charges. let's go back to our correspondent covering this trial from the beginning. you have new information for us, mike? >> yeah, that's right. we just learned that the special counsel's office is planning to hold a news conference in a few minutes, at 1:00 p.m. we'll hear from david weiss, who was the u.s. attorney for the district of delaware, that was apointed by merrick garland as a special counsel in this case.

we'll hear from the prosecutors that argued this case in court. derek heinz and leo, who did tough questioning on hunter biden's own daughter, who took the stand in the closing days of the trial. it will be interesting to hear the perspective from this. we heard from hunter biden in a paper statement. no word if we might here from abbe lowell in the form of a press statement, as well. >> let's bring back lisa rubin and joyce vance. what can we expect to hear from special counsel david weiss? what can he say about this case at this point? >> i think we hear prosecutors thank the jury for their service. we will hear them acknowledge that cases like this are difficult and painful. and they appreciated that this jury set aside outside noise and performed their civic duty. and beyond that, they'll say

that the justice department stands for the rule of law. it believes in following the facts and upholding the law. that's what this trial team and jury did today. >> do you expect a sense of them taking a victory lap? >> you know, that's not really what federal prosecutors are hard-wired to do. a win for prosecutors isn't like a win for private litigants. a win for prosecutors is the performance of a solemn duty, and something i believed as a prosecutor and especially as a u.s. attorney supervising a large number of trial lawyers was anytime a prosecutor was happy about a defendant going to prison, they needed to rethink ha they were doing. it's not a happy event for anyone when a person with a family goes to prison. what it does mean is we have justice and accountability. that's a prosecutor's job, to seek justice and accountability, under the law on behalf of the

citizens of the united states. >> lisa, let's talk about the ripple effects potentially, of this verdict. what does it mean for people who have been addicted to drugs now, moving forward, if they want to purchase a gun? >> well, certainly, if you have been addicted to drugs, you know -- let me take a step back. hunter biden's defense attorney tried to make the argument that in the moment that hunter biden appied for a gun, he was not a user of or addicted to drugs. he didn't see himself that way. but this jury verdict might be a sign that as a society we understand the mentality that katherine is talking about, that once an addict, always an addict. if that case, anybody confronted with this form, under the existing law, if asked, are you a user of or are you addicted to -- a litany of controlled substances -- has to answer that

question yes because addiction is a lifelong struggle. it never ends. you can be in recovery for three decades, having not touched a substance of alcohol or drugs and yet still view yourself through the prism of addiction because there but for the grace of god go you. and i think the jury's verdict might reflect that as a country, that's how we see addiction. certainly, they were invited by the defense team to see it differently, to say that in that moment, hunter biden, there's no proof that he was using that month and he didn't see himself as an addict because he had been through a rehabilitation program. but they presented evidence from the department's perspective, that showed hunter biden was struggling with adirection for years and described himself as someone who struggled with addiction for years. describing him in the present term in his memoir, as an addict. that had to be influential to the jury, too, in finding that he knowingly falsified that

answer to the question, are you a user of or are you addicted to a controlled substance or a narcotic. >> right. joyce, do you think this sort of opens the door for more prosecutions like this? do you think we'll see more, i guess, prosecutions against people who may have lied on the forms that are under the influence of drugs potentially? >> no, i don't. and for the simple reason that d.o.j. as an entity has significant but limited resources. and prosecutors are charged with prosecuting the cases that are the most serious for their community. the cases that will do the most to protect the communities. so, one of the most frequently charged cases in the justice department is related to this one but different. it's the charge of being someone with a prior felony conviction,

who is in possession of or purchases a firearm. that's something the d.o.j. takes serious by because of the propensity of violence, for convictions that involve violence or drug dealing when they obtain additional firearms. we'll continue to see those cases prosecuted in large numbers. i don't think this conviction signifies a trend. but lisa makes a real interesting point here, that there's so much vagueness in this statute. are we talking about a technical legal definition of addiction, where you're only prohibited from purchasing or possessing when you're in the active phase of addiction? is it something else? this addiction prohibition in the statute is very different from the other prohibitions. either you are or you aren't someone with a prior felony conviction. either you are or you aren't under a domestic violence retraining order and on and on. it's only with the addiction

provision there's this level of vagueness. that's something that could be raised in the course of the appeal. >> quickly, lisa, as we await this press conference and remarks from special counsel david weiss, in any moment, what will you be watching for? >> i will be watching to see if they stay as civil minded about their responsibilities, as joyce predicted they would be. and whether they confirm that an individual situation can be tragic and the rule of law prevailed. that's a duality that some have difficulty challenging. this case was brought and it was justice. >> lisa, joyce, thank you so much. that's going to do it for us this hour. i'll see you back here tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern. much more breaking news next with chris jansing reports, right now. ♪♪ good day. i'm chris jansing, live at msnbc